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Katie Bryan is the CEO and Founder of Propeller Advisory—a successful multi-figure accounting and business advisory firm based in Melbourne, Australia. She’s a business owner, mum to a newborn, wife, sister, and also helps her clients build businesses and lives they deserve. In this episode, Stuart and Katie discuss the accounting industry, the story of Propeller Advisory, and what made Katie open a venture to inspire women business owners.
Join Stuart McLeod as he interviews the world's top accounting leaders to understand their story, how they operate, their goals, mission, and top advice to help you run your accounting firm.
Stuart McLeod 00:00:06.439 [music] Hi. I'm Stuart McLeod, CEO and co-founder of Karbon. Welcome to the Accounting Leaders Podcast, the show where I go behind the scenes with the world's top accounting leaders. Today I'm joined by Katie Bryan, the CEO and founder of Propeller Advisory, a very successful multifigure accounting business advisory firm based in Melbourne. Katie has been recognized as one of the top 20 CAs under 35 to watch, and Receipt Bank's 2020 Thought Leader of the Year. She's a well-balanced business owner, mum to a newborn, wife, sister, and passionate advocate for building the business and life her clients deserve. It is absolutely my pleasure to welcome to the Accounting Leaders Podcast, Katie Bryan. Katie, well.
Katie Bryan 00:00:53.404 Thanks so much, Stuart. It's great to be here.
Stuart McLeod 00:00:55.592 A little bit restrictive. And we live up in Lake Tahoe in Nevada, but my family and my wife's family are obviously still in Australia. And so late notice, my mum was able to sort of take advantage of flights and everything that were sort of starting to open up. So we thought we'd bring her. It's a pretty easy route to get down here. And so she loves the beach. And where we are, it was snowing today. So you probably, hopefully, can't hear it in the back. It's a bit hard to find a podcast [where you don't put?] a meter, but she and I are getting to spend some time with the grandparents, the grandkids, at poolside and beachside. That's the plan. So it's worked out well.
Katie Bryan 00:01:44.345 So good. That's great. She'd be loving it.
Stuart McLeod 00:01:46.716 Yeah. She is loving it. Actually, we were just talking about it. It's obviously been really difficult. Right? The travel restrictions? Have you got family, friends, overseas? And how have you guys gone during COVID?
Katie Bryan 00:01:59.897 Not so much overseas. But I was living in Melbourne and that kind of, I think, was the worst lockdown city in a lot of the world, I think, even. So that was interesting. And my parents and family were all in Queensland. So it was a long time in-between seeing them. And luckily, the borders opened just as I had my son, and then they closed again. But we then moved. As soon as they closed, we moved to Queensland. So we're now in Queensland now, which is great.
Stuart McLeod 00:02:32.780 Right. Okay. Whereabouts?
Katie Bryan 00:02:34.115 Gold Coast. The very unsunny Gold Coast today. It's pouring down.
Stuart McLeod 00:02:38.752 Oh, is it? Whereabouts on the Goldie?
Katie Bryan 00:02:41.038 Mermaid Waters.
Stuart McLeod 00:02:41.994 Ah, lovely.
Katie Bryan 00:02:43.351 Yeah. Where are you from here, originally?
Stuart McLeod 00:02:45.425 Melbourne, originally. I grew up in Waverley. And when we left, we were in Hawthorn.
Katie Bryan 00:02:49.595 Okay. Yep.
Stuart McLeod 00:02:51.016 But I spent, probably, nine months living in Tugun as a single 23-year-old. Right?
Katie Bryan 00:02:58.059 That would have been fun. [laughter]
Stuart McLeod 00:02:59.888 It was a bit fun. And yeah, sort of enjoyed the very un-Melbourne kind of Queensland surf life for about nine months. The lack of culture was probably the biggest issue. But it was replaced with sun and surf and everything. So that was good. But so I know Mermaid reasonably well and [inaudible].
Katie Bryan 00:03:22.974 Yeah. It seems to have gotten a little bit more culture, I think. I was in Melbourne--
Stuart McLeod 00:03:26.050 Oh, that's good.
Katie Bryan 00:03:27.358 --for 10 years, and it's definitely changed a lot. A lot of Melbourne and Sydney people live up here now. So they've brought a bit of the culture with them, which is nice.
Stuart McLeod 00:03:34.680 Yes. Well, I mean, there must be, what, half a dozen people I know, at least, and you might tip the scales even further, obviously, people from Melbourne that have just got sick of it. Right?
Katie Bryan 00:03:45.579 Had enough.
Stuart McLeod 00:03:46.316 Just can't have the government in your life every day, and being fined by vigilantes because you're five kilometers from home. It's not even three miles.
Katie Bryan 00:03:57.638 No. Mental.
Stuart McLeod 00:03:59.310 So I understand. I completely get it. I completely get why you-- so you must appreciate having family close by then.
Katie Bryan 00:04:04.370 I do. Yeah. It's great. Especially with an 11-month-old. It helps a lot.
Stuart McLeod 00:04:08.636 Yeah. And that's your first?
Katie Bryan 00:04:10.487 It is my first. Yeah.
Stuart McLeod 00:04:13.652 And tell me, please tell me, how did Propeller come about? And what was the impetus? And how's business going? Tell me all your life story.
Katie Bryan 00:04:24.771 All the things. So Propeller came about, I think, six years ago. I was in Melbourne. I left the Gold Coast. I started out my career on the Gold Coast, and then wanted to get into more of a corporate advisory path. So I went down to Melbourne. And as part of that, I worked in M&A for both the industrial market, and accounting and financial planning firms. And so I spent about a year. And I think in that year, I met with 100 accountants in Melbourne. And I just saw the same thing everywhere, which was old white men with [crosstalk].
Stuart McLeod 00:04:57.430 It is. You don't have to go to Melbourne just for that, though. They're worldwide, let me promise.
Katie Bryan 00:05:03.916 Yeah. But there was no women. There was not one single female-led accounting firm that I walked into, which I found really sad. Because there are so many female small business owners out there. And just as women, we communicate differently. It's just how it is. And so I kind of went, "You know what? Maybe I could do this." And so I put my business services hat back on and started Propeller Advisory, which actually started out just as CFO services, back when CFO services was just becoming something that was recognized, I think, in the market. But quickly morphed into a fully-fledged accounting tax advisory.
Stuart McLeod 00:05:39.185 Yeah. Well, let's explore it. And I don't know how to say this. But as a white, middle-aged male now, it honestly, I notice it probably nowhere near as much as you. And I don't ever want to think that I'm qualified to advocate for women in the industry or anything. And I don't pretend to do so. But we do, as a company, we do notice the industry, particularly here in America, hopefully Australia, has sort of balanced out a tiny bit more. But it would be-- so well done on the women first advocacy. Because I think it's important. And there's 50% of the clientele, no doubt, are women, and which communicate very effectively. But it would be great to sort of balance out in other countries. So if you ever want to start US or Canada, please, please [crosstalk].
Katie Bryan 00:06:29.424 Okay. Be the first. And you're right. In Australia, it has changed a lot since I started out. There's been a significant number of female-led accounting firms open, which is great. And I think it's a testament to what technology has done for the industry. There's very limited barriers to entry. It's cheap for us to start. I started with a laptop in a crappy little apartment, no extra screen. It was literally just my laptop and a zero subscription, and my G-suite account. And that's how easy it is now, which is great.
Stuart McLeod 00:07:04.047 Yeah. Well, that's a really good point. Like the affordance, well, the technology has allowed equalization in the industry, and that's a really important aspect. Right? It was expensive to start up 20 years ago. You had to have your server, and your CCH or MIB licenses, and your offices, and it was probably 50 grand, or 70 grand in. Now, if you lease your laptop, it's probably about 300 bucks a month. Right?
Katie Bryan 00:07:35.051 Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah.
Stuart McLeod 00:07:36.659 But also the flexibility for, again, there's some stereotype in this, I realize, but the flexibility for women and mums in particular, affording more flexible working workplace and working arrangements is really important.
Katie Bryan 00:07:53.608 Yeah. And having control, I think, of your own freedom, really, is just a big motivator for me. I knew that within five years I'd probably want to start a family. And so my aim was to have a business by that point that could support me taking some time off and spending some time with my bubba [inaudible].
Stuart McLeod 00:08:11.759 And how was that process? Congratulations. Well done in all your success. Because the firm has gone from strength to strength, and the authenticity in the way that you market, and the way that you go about everything is amazing. So congratulations.
Katie Bryan 00:08:28.161 Oh, thank you.
Stuart McLeod 00:08:29.227 What are the other catalysts for your success, and the way that you want to construct your life? What are the other things that have sort of helped along the way?
Katie Bryan 00:08:37.639 I think that, as I mentioned before, technology, carbon is a great one. It has allowed us to work remotely with our team, which is dispersed all across Australia and the world. So that's very exciting. But for me, I think it was understanding and realizing that I didn't know everything, and to rely on other people's experiences, and what they have been and done before me to try to get, I guess, as much insight as I could without having to make all the same mistakes. I have made plenty, however.
Stuart McLeod 00:09:07.712 It's okay. It's okay.
Katie Bryan 00:09:10.161 So Wise Mentoring. I am a big fan of Wize Mentoring. I started out with Jamie Johns as a mentor.
Stuart McLeod 00:09:17.450 Oh, wow.
Katie Bryan 00:09:18.279 Pretty much when I was looking at outsourcing or offshoring, I should say into TOA, and I went onto TOA's website and I saw that Jamie Johns was on there as he had some stuff. And I gave him a call and he said, "Hey, why don't I mentor you? And we'll catch up once a month. But I can help you with your business." That was before Wize existed. And he helped so much. And then Wize became established. I became one of the first members there. And it just kind of taught me all the things that I didn't know. Being when I was in business services, I had had maybe a four year gap when I went into corporate advisory. So there was a lot capacity planning, and position descriptions, and how to have the ideal team, and those sorts of things that I didn't know about that Wize taught me, which was awesome. So I think that was great. And then also just networking with others within the industry, I think that's been the best place for me to find out what apps to use, what should my tech staff be, what are you paying your staff members? Those sorts of things have been really helpful.
Stuart McLeod 00:10:20.711 What are you paying yourself? That's probably the most-- you got to make sure you're paid.
Katie Bryan 00:10:22.752 Yeah. Actually, and that was an eye opener for me. I had a guy at Xerocon one day say, "Hey, you're not paying yourself enough. Your business isn't successful." And I went, "Oh my gosh, you're right. It isn't." And so then it was a whole different ballpark for me into how do I grow so that I am paying myself what I should be paying myself, rather than it's just being all about my team.
Stuart McLeod 00:10:42.909 That's good. You definitely need to do that. So Wize Mentoring, Jamie Johns, Ed Chan, I mean, these are really great people that have helped champion the online transition in Australia. What else did you learn from-- can you point to some examples of perhaps some discussions and things that they've really helped out?
Katie Bryan 00:11:02.136 Yeah. So I think especially in regards to the ideal team, and also that you can have an accounting firm with the ideal team that doesn't require you to be there working 40, 60, 70 hours a week. I probably work in the business 12 hours a week now, have Monday and Friday with my son. He's not in daycare yet. So I work when he's napping on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. So life is busy. And I focus on what I love in the business, which is the sales side, and building relationships, and those sorts of things. And I've got an amazing team by following the ideal team structure with a senior client manager, assistant client manager, team leader, and bookkeepers and accountants. That is just enabling me to be able to do that, which is awesome. And I think all of that's testament to what I've learnt through them.
Stuart McLeod 00:11:48.872 That's great. That's really great. I mean, we've discussed on this podcast before what success looks like in accounting. And I've expressed there is a perception difference, or at least, probably, even a reality difference. Right? Like in software, it's often grow, grow, grow. But us egotistical men can easily get caught up in growth for growth's sake. And I think some of the, maybe, a customer skew towards a lifestyle balance, which I admire, and perhaps a bit jealous of sometimes. But I think accounting, in particular, has enabled a lot of people to have a lot of flexibility that perhaps 20 years ago they wouldn't have been able to.
Katie Bryan 00:12:33.111 Oh, yeah, absolutely. And COVID? COVID just changed our business. We suffered during COVID. We had a large hospitality client base. A lot of them, unfortunately, didn't make it. And so growth slowed down. And don't get me wrong, I'm very highly motivated by growth as well. But--
Stuart McLeod 00:12:47.482 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No. I don't mean to dismiss it completely, but it's perhaps not top, top, first, second, and third priority for you. Right?
Katie Bryan 00:12:56.755 Yeah. That's right. No. It's about being able to have a great business, but be able to be flexible and work the hours that I want to work, and that works for me, which is good.
Stuart McLeod 00:13:05.138 Well, talk about COVID a bit. And it sounds like you're concentrating in hospitality, and that would have been heartbreaking, I imagine. Because I'm sure you've got great relationships with your clients, and they were struggling during that time. Tell me how that was.
Katie Bryan 00:13:20.091 Yeah. I actually, COVID was an interesting one for me. Because it was scary. We all were so scared, that the whole world was petrified in February, March 2020. And I made a discovery about myself, which was that I am very driven, and very motivated by fear. And I kind of hit the ground running and just wanted to be everything for our clients. And obviously, that impacted our growth as well. Because we were spending so much time giving free advice and just trying to help people through it. And doing the job [inaudible] applications, those sorts of things, which we did end up charging for, which was good. But yeah, it was heartbreaking. But it allowed me to build these incredible relationships with my clients, which I don't know that I would have done otherwise. I would have, but it might have been a bit slower. Instead, I was on the phone. I was calling everyone each week to find out how they were going. Is everything okay? Can we do anything for them? Now, I have this beautiful client base that really love and adore us. We've got, as Ed Chan would say, we've got a big emotional bank balance, so we can make a little mistake, and they're not going to care too much. [laughter]
Stuart McLeod 00:14:21.932 Yeah. You can withdraw occasionally.
Katie Bryan 00:14:25.440 Yeah. Yeah. And you're right, there was a lot of suffering. A lot of hospitality businesses-- we had quite a lot of gym owners and people like that. And that went on for two years, them not being able to open their doors. It was just mortifying for them. Yeah.
Stuart McLeod 00:14:38.555 Let's not get into the-- it gets me going.
Katie Bryan 00:14:41.421 Yeah. And you know what? It was an opportunity for us to show that we're not just accountants, that we are more than that. We are your support, your business mentor, which was really, really, really good.
Stuart McLeod 00:14:54.785 And through that process, what is the purpose for your firm? Did that become clarified further for you during COVID?
Katie Bryan 00:15:02.531 I think I always kind of knew the purpose of our firm, and that was really to, I guess, help our clients to achieve what I've achieved, and that's to get some time back, and to save on those sleepless night. And really just to, I think, help them to grow. I mean, propel means to drive forward and give onward motion to. And that's really always been our answer, I guess, is that we just want to help you grow. And that doesn't mean just your revenue, that means your profits, your cash, all of those sorts of things which are so much more important. Making sure that you understand your KPIs, those sorts of things is very important, rather than just focusing on the compliance side.
Stuart McLeod 00:15:42.542 Yeah. Did you feel like a bit of a therapist--
Katie Bryan 00:15:44.383 Oh, yeah.
Stuart McLeod 00:15:45.616 --and a psychologist, an accountant, and a compliance officer, and a grand [inaudible], and a--?
Katie Bryan 00:15:52.690 Oh yeah, big time. Yeah. Definitely psychologist. I felt like that a lot. And I think my team definitely felt like they were just grants and writers. Yeah.
Stuart McLeod 00:16:01.211 [laughter] Government employees, essentially, that haven't been paid by their--
Katie Bryan 00:16:04.699 Yeah. For sure. Yeah.
Stuart McLeod 00:16:06.673 That happened worldwide. Right? Accountants became, overnight, the facilitator for government stimulus funds.
Katie Bryan 00:16:13.870 Yeah. And there was no-- I don't think that we really received any of the recognition that we should have from the government because all of a sudden, our workload were-- I mean, if you talk to any accountant, they're all pretty much at max capacity. Our workload then just blew out significantly, and there was very little help from the government side to enable and allow us to be able to manage that extra workload.
Stuart McLeod 00:16:35.215 Well, in America, I won't bag the [inaudible] too much, but in the United States, the rules literally changed hourly. These poor accountants were checking the website, which would often be down. They'd fill in a grant for a client and it would change, or the process would change, or the bank, the list of banks that were able to support the distribution of funds. It was just an horrific time for the whole industry.
Katie Bryan 00:17:04.602 Yeah. That sounds terrible. Yeah. It really was.
Stuart McLeod 00:17:06.831 And well, let's talk a little bit about growth, then. What is your team size? How's your geographical distribution? You just moved from cold old Melbourne up to beautiful Gold Coast [inaudible]. Where is your team based? Have you got any offices? How do you think about locations and everything?
Katie Bryan 00:17:25.273 Yeah, so we do. We've got one office in South Yarra in Melbourne, and that's kind of our base. That's where we started. And that's where we'll continue to have, I think, quite a large presence. The majority of our client base is from Melbourne. But I reckon, probably, only 75%, 70% maybe. And then the rest is distributed around Queensland, Adelaide, Sydney. No one in [inaudible] Canberra. Nobody in Melbourne Territory. And so we have a virtual office in Sydney. I visit Sydney quite often, especially when there's conferences and things on. And then obviously, I'm up here. So I mean, I just work from home up here. I don't know. I'll wait and see what COVID does. I'm quite happy working from home. If I do want to get out of the house, I might go and check out a coworking space or something like that. We also, then, have a large team in the Philippines. And they all work from home also, and would prefer to work from home. COVID hasn't been great over there. They don't have the health and the support that we've got here, and in some other parts of the world. So they're all really happy to feel safe and working from home and protecting their families.
Stuart McLeod 00:18:31.318 Yeah. Yeah. I get it. I mean, was the offshoring, outsourcing, or insourcing, perhaps-- help me understand your model and the thought process behind the Philippines and how's that experience been for you?
Katie Bryan 00:18:45.702 Yeah. I think from the beginning of time, I knew that I wanted to be focusing on the sales side of the business, and didn't necessarily want to be in there doing the work. But when you just start out, you don't have much money. And so I didn't have very many clients. And the solution that I kind of thought was, "Oh, how about I have a look at offshoring?" And I was so lucky. And the first three of my staff members that are over there, that still work with me, are just fabulous. And so the first one, in particular, was fantastic. And then I hired the other two quite quickly in succession as we grew up fast. But I just had a great experience from the beginning. And they now help me find my other staff members. So people that they've worked with before, or people that they know. And so I know that they're good and they're reliable, which is wonderful. Yeah.
Stuart McLeod 00:19:27.582 Are you taking staff off Jamie?
Katie Bryan 00:19:30.872 [laughter] No. I'm not. I wouldn't.
Stuart McLeod 00:19:35.007 No. No. He'd be on the phone quick.
Katie Bryan 00:19:37.021 He would be, definitely. That's for sure.
Stuart McLeod 00:19:40.429 That experience sounds very positive for you guys. It hasn't been difficult? Language is fine?
Katie Bryan 00:19:48.254 Yeah. Language is fine. All that's fine. We've had one staff member over there that didn't work out. And I knew that pretty quickly, but didn't act on it fast enough. You know what they say. "Hire slow, fire fast." Or whatever. Definitely did not follow that. But apart from that, our experience has been really good. So I just think that it's about making sure that you're really diligent in the interview process. You're asking all the right questions. If they don't have the English that you need them to have, then don't hire them because it is so important, especially if you want them communicating with your clients like ours do. And then, too, there's Account Test. Have you heard of that? They do a test for accountants and bookkeepers to see what their knowledge is actually like. And they're wonderful. So I would recommend making sure any future hires, whether they're where you are living or overseas, to make sure that they're put through those tests. They're really good.
Stuart McLeod 00:20:38.301 Get an understanding of their industry capacity. And so what's in the future for you guys? Where do you want to take Propeller? What kind of business do you want to create?
Katie Bryan 00:20:51.822 Yeah. So I think COVID has kind of helped us define a little bit more about who our target client is, who we want to be working with. And so I think through Propeller Advisory, we're focusing more on the professional services realm. Being in professional services ourselves, we're, somehow, experts in that space. And find the conversations that we can have with those sorts of clients are really rewarding both for us and for them because we can deliver a lot. So a large proportion of our client base are already professional services. So we're just going to try to grow that a little bit more. I have also just launched a new business called PropelHer, which is female-focused.
Stuart McLeod 00:21:27.948 I was going to ask you. PropelHer. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I'd love to talk about that.
Katie Bryan 00:21:29.807 Yeah. Female-focused. And more on the business coaching side of things. But I brought together some amazing women from all different industries, that our clients in PropelHer can bounce ideas off and use for help. And I think it's just created a bit of a hub and a network for women in business to, I guess, form a community.
Stuart McLeod 00:21:52.838 What was the genesis of PropelHer? Did that come about through conversations with your clients? Just something you always wanted to do? Tell me.
Katie Bryan 00:21:59.315 Yeah. So it kind of, actually, came from my own experience when I started Propeller Advisory, and feeling very isolated, and very alone, and not really knowing who I can go to when I had questions about what steps to take next, and those sorts of things. And then I met this amazing woman, Marianne Marchesi who runs a legal firm called Legalite, and she became a client of mine. And we very quickly formed quite a close friendship. And she became that person to me. And I was that person to her, where we were almost mentoring each other. And businesses were on a similar trajectory. We were hiring at the same time. Our staff members now are pregnant at the same time. We just go through everything together, which is wonderful. But it gave me that feeling of having almost a business partner without having a business partner. So that was great. And we started doing monthly board meetings, like you would in a big corporate. We had an agenda and we went through it, and produced management reports, and went through those, and understood how we were tracking against our budget. All of that sort of thing, which a lot of small businesses don't do. And so that's the premise of PropelHer, is firstly providing that community to give a bit of support to women in business. But also, getting them to get together once a month and have a look at their numbers, understand what their debtor position is like. Do they have any taxes due? All of those sorts of things, which unfortunately, when women come through my door, my online door, a lot of them don't know how to read a profit and loss. And they don't understand what their balance sheet means. And so really, I want to try to educate and help women to understand those things, which all business owners should.
Stuart McLeod 00:23:34.932 Oh, definitely. And so there's obviously an intermingle of clients from both sides of the business. Do you think these types of-- you wouldn't have started, if you were [inaudible] services, so it's a bit rhetorical. But what's been your experience as you've sort of built this PropelHer side of the business, and the types of women who are probably, well I imagine, if they're seeking you out, they're highly intelligent, they're very passionate about their businesses-- where are the gaps? And by the way, the fact that business people can't read a profit and loss is [inaudible] this. Right? But I imagine that there's a gap there. Right? There's an insecurity, perhaps, around this gap in knowledge that you're helping. Is that fair? Is that okay?
Katie Bryan 00:24:27.315 Yeah. No. That's 100% it. It is. It's a gap. I think what we find is that a lot of our clients, whether they be men or women, have an idea of what they want to be doing with a decision that they want to make in their business. But they're just not 100% sure, and they want someone to bounce that off. And there is. There's a gap in all sorts of areas, whether it be, am I ready to hire my first employee? Is my gross profit what it should be? Have I priced myself correctly? All of those sorts of things, that they may have an idea or a gut feel, but they're not sure how to actually get the answer.
Stuart McLeod 00:25:00.684 Yeah. And might get in trouble for it, but I think men just fake it, generally.
Katie Bryan 00:25:04.578 Yeah. Yeah. It's a comfort thing. Yeah. Fake comfort thing.
Stuart McLeod 00:25:07.616 Yes. Exactly. I wanted you to say it, not me. [laughter] I genuinely think the business people, the customers, the clients that we come across, like yourself, are just highly intelligent, build amazing businesses. And I think this is the area that you've identified that women need help, is just the confidence capacity, the ability to talk it through and just go for it.
Katie Bryan 00:25:30.202 Yeah. And we all fake it. I think we all fake it. But women are more likely to put their hand up and say, "Oh, I'm not quite sure about this. Can you help me?" But on social media and free marketing and things like that, they come off very confident, and might well be in a lot of areas of their business, like in the marketing side, or the sales side, and those sorts of things. But maybe not so confident on the accounting numbers side. That's very daunting for a lot of people.
Stuart McLeod 00:25:55.623 No, I think there's-- look, I can generalize here. I think that's the difference, often, between-- women would seek out help from people like yourself. Men just pray, and hope for the best, and go ahead without seeking that advice and guidance. Right?
Katie Bryan 00:26:12.338 Yeah. They take more risks, I think.
Stuart McLeod 00:26:14.570 I think it might be stupidity more than risk [inaudible]? [laughter]
Katie Bryan 00:26:19.529 You will get yourself in trouble now. [laughter]
Stuart McLeod 00:26:21.563 Yeah. Yeah. That's all right. That's all right. I can take it from that side. I can hear in your voice that this energizes you, and something you're passionate about. Yeah?
Katie Bryan 00:26:29.698 Yeah. I'm really passionate about. Also, incredibly terrified. It's been a while since I started a business. And it's more challenging than I remember. Yeah. So I am very passionate about it.
Stuart McLeod 00:26:40.659 And what types of businesses has the PropelHer side of your go to market and everything? What type of people are attracted to that community? What types of businesses?
Katie Bryan 00:26:51.768 So I'm targeting, say, already six figures, and wanting to grow to that next level. And they have one or two staff members. But what we're doing is we're getting women who want to participate in all different areas of business. So whether it be startup, whether it be just registered for GST, which is 75, and then whether it be six figures, or they're already at that million-dollar mark and struggling to grow from there. And then we'll put them all together in groups that are from the same level, so that they're all going through the same thing at the same time.
Stuart McLeod 00:27:22.623 Yeah. And I think, is it fair to say the journey, and talking about it, is probably 80% of it, 90% of it? Just having that outlet, rather than the formal advice?
Katie Bryan 00:27:33.488 Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. I think that's definitely a large part of it is accountability coaching. I think that's the key one, having a business plan, having a strategic plan, setting some goals, and then having someone that will hold you accountable to that. I know my tutor list is massive, and it stays massive because no one knocks on my door and says, "Hey, Katie, have you ticked off that yet?" But if you have someone that you have to meet with once a month to check how you're going, then you're going to start ticking that off.
Stuart McLeod 00:28:02.248 Oh, I can hear Jamie. I can hear him in your--
Katie Bryan 00:28:06.125 [laughter] What? You mean I'm brainwashed?
Stuart McLeod 00:28:08.090 No. No. Just there's a little voice in your head that sounds like him.
Katie Bryan 00:28:12.595 Oh, that's funny.
Stuart McLeod 00:28:12.653 That's good. It could be a lot worse. I could be a lot worse. He's a fantastic leader in the industry.
Katie Bryan 00:28:17.817 Definitely.
Stuart McLeod 00:28:19.296 And so then leap from sort of that large corporate environment into your own small business, obviously faced obstacles and found various times difficult. What were the influences that got you through? And mentoring is a fantastic contributor to that. Were there some others, family support, clients, that type of thing that helped the journey?
Katie Bryan 00:28:42.903 Yeah. I think family support, definitely. But as well, support from the industry. The Australian accounting industry is great in terms of its recognition. Got lots of accounting awards and those sorts of things. And kind of once you start to get a name for yourself, it really eggs you on. You become even more motivated to do great and not let down your fans, I guess. [laughter] But yeah. So I think that had a lot to do with it. The Australian accounting industry is wonderful, and there's just such a tight-knit group of accountants that just support each other so much, and really help each other forward, and to make decisions, and those sorts of things.
Stuart McLeod 00:29:20.531 Yeah. That makes sense. I was talking about this in a podcast yet to be released. But with a client [inaudible] is just an amazing story. But the accounting industry that we come across, and what you just said sort of reinforces that, but particularly our customer base, you don't see other accountants as competitive or as-- there's a peer-based kind of network. I haven't seen it. But he says that, perhaps outside of our customer base, it's a bit more cutthroat. And perhaps in the top 25 firms, they're all poaching each other's stuff, and they're all fighting over the same clients and audit. And maybe out of the top four in Aussie, they're all a bit more cutthroat. But I think it's great how you don't see that in a lot of other industries. Right? Well, I don't know.
Katie Bryan 00:30:12.206 No. You don't. That's right. I think, somehow, all these accounting firms have started up, and everyone has just had the same thought, which is, "There's enough clients for all of us. So let's not worry about it. And let's just support each other." And there was a hashtag going around, I don't know, a couple of years ago, which was community over competition. And I think that sums it up really well.
Stuart McLeod 00:30:30.076 It does.
Katie Bryan 00:30:30.824 Yeah. It's great.
Stuart McLeod 00:30:31.488 It does. It is. And we see it wherever we go. UK, US, Canada, Australia. [crosstalk]--
Katie Bryan 00:30:37.595 Yeah. I'm wondering whether, yeah, I'm wondering whether maybe Xero, and Xerocon, and those sorts of things, and getting a heap of accountants in a room together was the catalyst? I don't know. But something along those terms, I think, accountants started networking together, which I don't think has been done in the past.
Stuart McLeod 00:30:53.294 Yeah. I think you're right. I think Xero deserves a fair bit of credit in that, for that aspect of the industry. I remember the second Xerocon in Taupo, New Zealand, in a white tent. There was 60 people there. And even back then, there was probably more-- easily enough, same number of Xero staff as there was clients. But it was just such a communal and engaging discussion going on then. I mean, it's always been there. It's always the Hamish Edwardses of the world, and obviously Rod and everything. The education aspect of moving from desktop to cloud was so important in their success in the early days. Because they were fighting so hard to be heard. Right? And it wasn't a customer. It was never a cult. That's not where I want to go with it at all. But it was a community. It was. It was a community that drove this movement. And remember, Xero started in 2006, same year as Zendesk, same year as a whole lot of other horizontal SaaS businesses. That SaaS was barely even a concept.
Katie Bryan 00:32:08.985 Yeah. That's right.
Stuart McLeod 00:32:10.162 And they had to fight the inertia of the incumbents, the inertia of desktop. And it was huge battle. I think that brought the community together. There you go. Well, we'll give a lot of credit for the community aspect of the accounting industry. So there we go.
Katie Bryan 00:32:27.465 Yeah. I think so. [laughter] Good.
Stuart McLeod 00:32:30.977 And what's next for you? Where do you think you can take Propeller?
Katie Bryan 00:32:34.792 I mean, it's hard. I'm so happy where we are right now, but I don't want this to be where we stay forever. So I just want continued growth. I'd love to add another team and to kind of have an office in Queensland that's led by a senior client manager. And one that's in Melbourne that's led by a senior client manager with full teams underneath. That would be amazing. And I really just love to keep doing great things for people. We've had an influx of leads in the last couple of months. And when I ask them where they're from, they say, "Oh, I've seen your name all over Facebook. People keep commenting that you guys are a great accountant." And that's what I want. I want people to be talking about us. Because that means that we are doing a great job.
Stuart McLeod 00:33:14.312 Yeah. No, completely. I mean, another funny aspect of the accounting industry is that there really is no business developments or referral. And feel free to build a sales team because nobody else will. But Jamie probably advocates that a little bit. But there's no reason you couldn't build client teams in the major cities around the eastern seaboard at least. And there you go, you can get an excuse to go over to Perth and build up a mining industry practice over there. Right?
Katie Bryan 00:33:43.555 Yeah. Absolutely. And I had an email, actually, the other day from a firm in Bali, that--
Stuart McLeod 00:33:49.533 Oh, there you go.
Katie Bryan 00:33:50.076 --so Bali [inaudible]. I was like, "Oh, I might just get a staff member over there." I like Bali.
Stuart McLeod 00:33:55.169 That's right. Yeah. [laughter]
Katie Bryan 00:33:58.204 Have a Bali office.
Stuart McLeod 00:33:59.369 There you go. Absolutely. I think, well, there you go. What about international expansion? There's not many Australian firms that have managed to sort of push overseas. Would that be a thing?
Katie Bryan 00:34:09.486 I think so. I mean, maybe. Who knows? But maybe with PropelHer, for sure. But I don't think with Propeller Advisory. The business coaching side, I think, absolutely. It's just an area that seems to be highly demanded at the moment. Every second person is asking for a business coach. So if there's something that we can do here from Australia that can't be done somewhere else, then absolutely.
Stuart McLeod 00:34:30.297 Let's drill into that a little bit more. Do you feel like-- where's your head at with PropelHer? Do you feel like in the community, and in the government situation, that type of female-focused work is supported? And that you've got a lot of momentum? Or is it hard work? What do you think?
Katie Bryan 00:34:49.682 I think it's not supported by the government, I don't think. Not in an outwardly way. The government is doing amazing things for female business startups, and they've got female founder grants and those sorts of things. They are quite hard to get. But in terms of being an advisor within that space, probably not so much, or nothing that I'm aware of. But in terms of the female community out there, there's a huge amount of support there. Females are just amazing at egging each other on and lifting each other up. And everyone wants to support you and make sure that you succeed. So I think that's pretty amazing. I am participating with another group called Intentional Nature at their conference this year, and people kind of seek out other females to be involved in what they're doing so that they can get help. I guess, help each other get their brand out there a little bit more, which is awesome.
Stuart McLeod 00:35:37.350 Well, if you ever need support, please, we're there to help.
Katie Bryan 00:35:40.804 Thank you.
Stuart McLeod 00:35:41.160 Anything that's good for our customer base. Absolutely. Happy to do so.
Katie Bryan 00:35:46.399 Yeah. Absolutely.
Stuart McLeod 00:35:47.716 And do you see a day, perhaps, where the momentum that seems to be in there, taking that business further than a small business? And perhaps there's aspects of that that you can grow from and develop, and all kinds of possibilities with your audience. Right?
Katie Bryan 00:36:07.469 Yeah. I think that my challenge at the moment with PropelHer is working out the scalability of it. Is it all me? Or can I do what I've done with Propeller Advisory and have a team underneath me that, I guess, is respected and loved by our client base the same way. Which of course we can. It's just the challenge of finding the right people, which we all know is a struggle at the moment.
Stuart McLeod 00:36:28.827 Worldwide. No matter what you do.
Katie Bryan 00:36:32.319 Yeah. That's right. No matter what you do.
Stuart McLeod 00:36:33.614 No matter what you do. My guess, and I don't know anything about it, but I imagine that the love and collegial feel in your community there, you'll have people that will want to sort of be more involved. And will go, "Katie, can we work in here? Can we grow with you? Can we do something to help?" I'm sure that those conversations, if they're not happening now, they'll be happening soon.
Katie Bryan 00:36:55.218 Yeah. Great. I hope so. It's amazing.
Stuart McLeod 00:36:59.087 And what about the Australian accounting industry and technology adoption, etc.? Are we well and truly through sort of the majority, and everybody's on cloud now? Or do you still sort of see some people falling behind, and those that struggle with the transition?
Katie Bryan 00:37:16.611 I think, really, we've done a pretty good job in Australia of adopting cloud. I think we were kind of the leaders in cloud adoption.
Stuart McLeod 00:37:23.151 We were?
Katie Bryan 00:37:24.257 Yeah. And so now it's kind of the majority of the people I talk to, they're already in the cloud. The ones that aren't, so they might not be using Xero, they might be using a server-based accounting software. They still use bits and pieces of the cloud, different apps here and there. So I think everyone's using it in some capacity. And now it's just the challenge of firms have their tech stack, and they're really kind of, I guess, entwined with it and used to using it, and it's set up and it's running the way that works for them. Now, the thought of me finding something else makes me feel a little bit anxious. I would hate to replace anything that I have because it all works so amazingly. But yeah. I think it's really important to not have that fear, and to make sure that we stay innovative, and we don't get left behind. But I mean, the thought of something coming out and replacing Xero, for example? Gosh, it would be such a big transition. So I can't even imagine how the non-cloud-based firms cope with that transition. It would have been so difficult.
Stuart McLeod 00:38:27.672 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's no danger of anything replacing Xero anytime soon, I don't think. And Australian firms, you're right, they are partly influenced by Xero. But also the Australian culture, I don't know, is definitely sort of grounded in underdog. But the capacity to give new things a go without sort of worrying too much about sort of the short-term disruption is, ironically-- I'm pretty sure it's ironic, not coincidental. Anybody that knows me would be conscious of that. But even in San Francisco, the Bay Area, there's some very old-school accountants. Our client base is not geographically centric in the US. But it's focused on firms that are, obviously, technology progressive. But they're everywhere in America. You would think it's sort of the focus in the tech progressive, other aspects of industries. But I think Australia, New Zealand, and even UK and Canada, are ahead of the US in terms of their technology adoption. So I think going back to a little bit about international expansion, with your knowledge, attitude, and industry experience, if that's something you wanted to do, there's very little chance of failure because of your capacity to grow in one of the toughest markets.
Katie Bryan 00:39:52.301 Yeah. That's so interesting. Maybe it's somewhere that I need to explore, for sure.
Stuart McLeod 00:39:57.240 There's not many places like Gold Coast in the UK, though, so maybe not.
Katie Bryan 00:40:01.150 Yeah. Maybe the US.
Stuart McLeod 00:40:03.582 Maybe the US.
Katie Bryan 00:40:05.910 I could imagine myself in Colorado somewhere, I think.
Stuart McLeod 00:40:08.480 There you go. A bit of skiing in winter, and a bit of hiking and summer.
Katie Bryan 00:40:12.575 That's right.
Stuart McLeod 00:40:13.645 What else comes to mind for you about where you're up to?
Katie Bryan 00:40:16.810 I don't really know. I think I just want to be supporting my team, giving them an awesome place to work, giving them the flexibility that I'm so lucky to have, and the same with my clients. I think if I can help them feel a little bit better, and a little bit more confident about what they're doing on a daily basis, then I've done my job.
Stuart McLeod 00:40:37.145 On that, a lot of accountants express to me that the passion that they-- that the thing that drives them the most, is just seeing their clients grow, become successful, go on the journey with them. I think that's what you're expressing. I'm pretty sure that's what your team feels, as well. And the journey that you go on with your clients, and the connection that you have with them, I'm sure is very special to them, and that they entrust in you-- the assistance on their journey is so important.
Katie Bryan 00:41:11.026 Yeah. Absolutely. And it's actually funny, as well. I was listening to another one of your podcasts with a lady over in Texas this morning, just so you know. And she was talking about how she feels her clients have grown up with her. And it is like that. Clients that are at a similar stage in their life, a similar stage in their business, they tend to track you down. And I think because you're relatable. All of a sudden, I'm having these meetings with these women that have 11-month-old babies. And my son's 11 months. There's no way they could have known that. But it's just coincidental. Yeah. It's funny. And you do. So then you have this journey of growing up together, and really becoming entwined in their businesses. And that's why I love the business advisory part of the business, because I get to experience what it's like to be a hospitality owner, or a plus-sized fashion ecommerce business. It's fun. It gets me out of that accounting realm for a little bit.
Stuart McLeod 00:42:08.582 Yeah. You mentioned sort of professional services as kind of a conglomeration of clientele. Is there other industries that are stimulating, exciting?
Katie Bryan 00:42:17.352 Yeah. I think being a woman, this is very cliché, fashion. Ecommerce fashion is a big one for me. I enjoy it. And we've helped a lot of businesses kind of really come back from the brink, really. And that was very rewarding for me. And so I want to continue to help those people and those businesses, as well. That'd be great. The other thing is, well, we acquired a small practice at the end of last year, So that was interesting, and a first for me.
Stuart McLeod 00:42:42.286 Congratulations.
Katie Bryan 00:42:43.057 Thank you. Yeah. That was good. It was an interesting thing to do.
Stuart McLeod 00:42:45.748 You're an M&A expert now.
Katie Bryan 00:42:47.431 Oh, yeah, that's right. After one. [laughter] But I mean, it's something that Wize always promoted quite strongly through their program, was acquisitions, and growing through acquisition. And I've always been quite against it, thinking, "No, I need the organic growth. If I'm not growing organically, I'm not successful." But we had just an opportunity arise where a lady had a small book of [business?] in Queensland, which was great. And she was going to go back to New Zealand for a bit, and needed some extra support. And so we got to take on those clients, which was very exciting. At the moment, we're just trying to [vet?] them in.
Stuart McLeod 00:43:19.630 [crosstalk] major process.
Katie Bryan 00:43:21.992 Sorry?
Stuart McLeod 00:43:22.431 Yeah. [Vetting?]. That was the merger process.
Katie Bryan 00:43:24.945 Yeah. So we've only had two drop off so far, so that was quite good. But we're still very early days. I mean, it was December. It's now the end of February.
Stuart McLeod 00:43:32.526 Oh, years, years, years.
Katie Bryan 00:43:33.017 So we'll see how the next year pans out. Yeah. That's right.
Stuart McLeod 00:43:36.264 I imagine that you chose carefully, and that the clientele were similar to those in your existing base?
Katie Bryan 00:43:46.327 Yeah. I probably wouldn't have done it, except for the fact that I met with this woman, and she was incredibly similar to me. And I thought, "Well, if her clients love her, then they're going to like me." And very similar client base to ours in terms of the industries that she's marketing, those sorts of things. The only issue I probably should have done a little bit more due diligence into what she charges for her client fees. But--
Stuart McLeod 00:44:11.340 Too light?
Katie Bryan 00:44:12.540 Too light. Yeah. They're not too, too light. We can deal with it. But yeah, they're [crosstalk].
Stuart McLeod 00:44:17.565 Maybe when you start sending them their new invoices, you might see a few more drop off.
Katie Bryan 00:44:20.089 That's when I'll start losing them. That's right.
Stuart McLeod 00:44:22.667 But I'd be willing to bet by the time you get to that point in a couple of months, that they've already had a connection with you, and your staff, and they won't mind paying the extra because of the value that they receive, and the way that you look after them. And that they can see going on the journey with you. And those that balk at a 20%, 30%, even 50% raise, I don't want to get ahead of it, but welcome that and because of the way that you treat them, and the way that you can help.
Katie Bryan 00:45:03.220 Yeah. That's right. That's what we hope. And also, I'm finding we offer a larger range of services, So we're already picking up a fair extra amount of fees through things like quarterly advisory meetings and those sorts of things, which is great. Really good.
Stuart McLeod 00:45:16.701 That's wonderful. Well, the future is bright, Katie. The future is really bright.
Katie Bryan 00:45:21.629 Hope so. [laughter] No more COVID, please.
Stuart McLeod 00:45:25.818 No. No. I think the world is over it. Right?
Katie Bryan 00:45:28.435 Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, everyone's had it now. Right?
Stuart McLeod 00:45:31.732 Pretty much. We were early adopters and got through it. But yeah. I think socially, emotionally, the world is just completely done.
Katie Bryan 00:45:45.357 Yeah. Absolutely. And it's funny, actually, I was thinking about it the other day, how in the last two years, the mindset around it and people's attitude around it is totally different. It's gone totally from fear to complete acceptance. And everyone's just getting on with their lives, which is wonderful.
Stuart McLeod 00:45:59.637 Yeah. Every country's experience was different. Well, your former Premier promoted the immigration from Victoria, so there you go. The Queensland should thank him.
Katie Bryan 00:46:12.779 That's right. [laughter]
Stuart McLeod 00:46:16.184 Oh, Katie Bryan, it's been an absolute pleasure. Congratulations on all your success so far, and everything that you do for the industry, your clients, and your community groups. It's really impressive to see.
Katie Bryan 00:46:27.778 Thank you. I really appreciate it. And thanks so much for having me on. It's been great to chat.
Stuart McLeod 00:46:30.864 Any time, Katie. Any time.
Katie Bryan 00:46:32.974 Enjoy the rest of Mexico. [music]
Stuart McLeod 00:46:40.992 Thanks for listening to this episode. If you found this discussion interesting, fun, you'll find lots more to help you run a successful accounting firm at Karbon Magazine. There are more than 1,000 free resources there, including guides, articles, templates, webinars, and more. Just head to karbonhq.com/resources. I'd also love it if you could leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to this podcast. Let us know you liked this session. We'll be able to keep bringing you more guests for you to learn from and get inspired by. Thanks for joining. And see you on the next episode of the Accounting Leaders Podcast.