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Beyond The Message is a weekly podcast that dives deeper into the weekend’s teaching. Released after each Sunday service, it offers thoughtful conversation, added insight, and practical reflection to help our community process and apply what they heard. Whether you're revisiting the message or catching up, this podcast is designed to help you go deeper throughout the week.
Welcome to Beyond the Message, the podcast where we take the weekly teaching at Christ Community Chapel and we bring it into your week. Each week we sit down as friends and we laugh a little bit, we reflect and we talk about how to live out what we are learning. If you didn't yet hear the sermon, go ahead, drop down to the description, check it out there, and then come back over and join in on this conversation. My name is Stacey. I'm joined today by Ken Prabucki, Lana Chilton, and Jimmy Kozy. Hey everybody. Okay, guys, it has been zero degrees for at least like a couple of weeks or maybe a year. Two years. Yeah. Forever feeling that way. so I want to ask you if you were getting on a plane today, you're going away for two weeks, where are you going and who are you taking? this interesting question because I actually am getting on a plane today and I am taking my kids and my wife and we're going down to Florida. We're gonna go to like Universal and Disney and the kids don't know about it. That's the best part. So excited. The plane leaves in like, I mean, we leave in like five hours. So we'll tell them, Justin. Okay. And you've said you just. We did talk about this a little bit ago. Your wife's been like, secretly packing in the basement. I love this. Secretly packing. Yeah. Now, my wife is, one of the most frugal people I know. So like we have carry ons, which is unusual for her. So she's usually when we go on a trip like this, she's telling the kids that they have to wear like four or five shirts because, you know, like, we're flying Frontier, so they can be a little nickel and dimey with a personal, item. And they need to be warm right now too, getting on that plane because it's freaking zero degrees. It is. So they need a few layers. There you go. Excited for you. One week, not two weeks. So I don't think we could do a second week and I don't think our kids school would allow it. So. So my gut reaction would be any beach, anywh, given the state of things here. But I think knowing me, I'd get super, bored after a couple hours. So I would choose London. I lived there with my wife Jamie for a little while. I would take her with me, of course. And two weeks London. The city itself is amazing. It's also a great launching point, for any number of other destinations. So that's makes me Want to change my answer, but I'm not going to. I'll stick with it. Stick with it. I'll stick with it. Yeah. So I love this question. I would normally say Savannah. We lived there 12 years. This is a great time to go visit Savannah. Exciting. But it's not snowed there yesterday for the first time in, like, 10 years. We were there for that snow, y'. All. It was an inch. And they got canceled church. They canceled church for an inch. What kind of church cancels for snow? Can you even let us not forsake the gathering together? Have we ever read the Bible? Boots. They don't have Coats. They don't have salt. Yeah. They don't have shells. They don't have any of the things. They don't have any of the things. So instead of Savannah, we would go, to Greece. I would take my husband and son, and we would go spend two weeks in Greece, which is your heritage, your big dream. My heritage, my big dream. You said your dad. I would wanna. We would fly into Athens. We would see the things in Athens, which I haven't done since I was 4, 5. And then we'd go to the island where my dad. I think you've got this planned out a little bit. Let's make it happen a little bit. I love it. A little bit planned out. Okay. Ken's answer. Did want me make me wanna change my answer. Because I lived in Vienna for a year and I've never been back. So I would love. But I was looking up. There's an island that is a part of Portugal, but not actually near Portugal. That's called Azores. A Z. I don't know if I'm saying that right. Yeah, sounds good to us. But look it up. If you haven't looked at it. A Z, O, R, E, S. It would be an adventure. I would love that. I'd go with my husband. I'd also want to bring my girls, though, if I could bring them, because we've maybe game planned and schemed a little bit about saying we've got to go there someday. I think you could bring him. There was no budget limit on this. We go question. So you can. Okay, let's jump in and talk about the teaching. This is week four of More Life. Pastor Joe speaking from Ephesians 3, 20, and 21. I love it. That again, as we've been looking at kind of the overarching theme of Jesus saying, I've come to give you life and life abundantly, that we've actually been all over, God's word in these four weeks. And so again, here we are in Ephesians and looking at this benediction and kind of three different points of this prayer that at. At the intersection of these, but then also each of them, I think we see where there are opportunities for more life. So we looked at a God who is greater. Again, the beginning of this passage just has all these superlatives of how great God is. A power that is stronger and a glory that lasts longer. and yeah, there was a. So much in there because even within two of those points, Pastor Joe had kind of three things that he mapped out. Lots of sub points in the points, and we'll probably talk about some of them. But anything that stood out to you, what was a great takeaway that you had, I'll jump in. I. These verses. I have loved these verses for so many years and honestly probably have incorporated them more times in praying with others than I could even count. But what caught me this time when he was preaching on it was how I have stopped short and not really, I don't know, directed my thoughts or, you know, directed others in prayer to think on the future glory. To think on the future glory. You know, that Christ is enthroned and there is a future glory that we can't even conceive of. So, yeah, bringing our present circumstances and asking for him to do greater is part of this prayer. Yeah. But no matter how he chooses to do that, just looking at that future glory was a. It was like a catch my breath moment for me. No, that. I think that's a great point. I mean, there's a lot in here that, as you said, I'm sure we'll unpack. But realizing my default setting when I think about the future is usually anxiety because I can't see through present circumstances or even the near term future. So many questions and ambiguity always for me brings doubt. And if I'm really trusting that the story ends well, ambiguity should only really result in a certainty that whatever comes next, however many steps there are, until the very end of the story. The story ends. Well, that's right. Yeah. And, I was reminded again this week. I struggle with that so much. I think, this is something that has been just impressed upon me for this whole series and maybe culminates in this passage is I think, one of the ways that I miscast God is that I look at him when I'm as a God of limitation, so limiting what I can do. Limiting. And I think just recasting him as A God of abundance. You know this passage saying he is able to do more than we could ever ask or imagine. And I think, just trying to process what that means and what it would look like to trust that that is true of God and that not only is that true, that he's capable, that he wants to do that. Yeah, that he wants that for you in our. Yeah, that struck me as well. we're going to listen to a clip. This is a passage that really struck me of just the power that is stronger than sin's grip. And so let's hear Pastor Joe talk about that and then I'd like to ask a question about it. So let me give you a few things that that power is stronger than, it's stronger than sin's grip. Let's be honest, for a lot of us, the thing that's keeping us from more life is sin. And I want you to know if you are, you might be stuck in sin, but if you know Jesus and the spirit of God lives in you, you are not held by sin. You may be stuck, but you can get free. That's what the Bible says over and over again. We sing songs like he breaks every chain. The reason we sing songs like that is because Romans 6 says sin will no longer have dominion over me. John chapter 8. Jesus says, he who the son sets free shall be free indeed. Listen, I always think that I want to be a self disciplined person. I feel like I'm pretty self disciplined but I think compared to what Paul is talking about, my self discipline is like a, like a AAA battery as compared to like a power station that can light an entire city. What Paul is saying is that you have a power within you that is much, much greater than you think. It's greater than sin's grip. I was struck by a couple things in that. First I think I resonated with Joe in that whole self discipline and that comparison of going like my self discipline is like a AAA compared to this giant power grid. But even before that though, I think that what really hit me was you know, he said if you are in Christ and so many of us struggle with sin in so many different ways, but just the reality that we are, are stuck but we're not held in that sin because we have Christ, we have more power, we have a God who is greater. So just wanted to say, ask that question like how do we get stuck believing that all we need is sometimes more self discipline? instead of looking at, I think the, and the Freedom that we have in Christ. Does that resonate with any of you? I actually think it connects with exact, exactly with what, I said earlier about thinking of God as a God of limitation. Because if you think of God as a God of limitation, then you, at least I'll speak for myself. Then. I, kind of boil down my relationship with him into a list of things that I need to make sure that I get done, boxes that I need to check. And in that way, I'm not cultivating affection for him. I am just trying to make sure that I stay within the lines on the coloring page and do the right thing. And I think I'm a very disciplined person. I feel like I'm good at self discipline. I think that sometimes spiritually that can actually work against me because the discipline becomes the end itself instead of being a means to an end, which is connection with God. Yeah. And I think, Jimmy, while we're looking at God, seeing he's a God of no limitations, the recognition that I am a person, I am a creature, I'm a creation with limitations. So whatever my self discipline is going to be, it will be limited and it will not be enough. It will be reliant on the self that is stuck in the first place. So I think putting those things together for me, yeah, looking to his power. Yeah. I think I vacillate, if I'm being honest between self discipline and just sometimes embracing comfort or preference. And so that's hard for me to admit in the first place, but what I wrote in my notes when I was listening to this, when Joe got to that was, no excuses, but in the very best way. In the very best way. So whether I'm trusting, myself to get it right, and I never could. And just being reminded that even at my best, even at my best, I'm. That AAA battery. Right. That's right. Yeah. Right. no excuse not to lean into him or in my apathy or in my comfort, to say, well, I could never do it, so why would I even try? It's like, well, that's true, but my heart posture is still wrong. he can do it. I think that's the thing. It's not me. It's like Joe said, it's the power of God within me. So whichever ditch you can fall into. And frankly, I can fall into either of them or both. no excuses, but only in the very best way. Because of Jesus. I think maybe an analogy that's in my head right now, maybe this Will make sense, maybe it won't. But, it makes me think about like playing the piano. So, you know, you can have two people play the same piece of music and have it sound totally different. the one person might play it perfectly, technically sound exactly what the notes say, but there's no feeling behind it because they're just rotely. I like that they're playing it perfectly. Or you can hear somebody play and it's like compelling and powerful. But if you compared what they played with what the sheet of music said, you might say, well, you were a little late on this. You were a little early on that you shouldn't use the pedal. You should have done this according to the sheet. I think sometimes it can, you know, that person is playing from passion, from their heart, from. And I think, I think that can play out in our relationship with God, at least for me. Again, like, where it's like, it's good. I want to be technically sound. You want to be checked by that. All the boxes. I do what he asked me to do. I, meet the requirements. And he's like, well, what I really want is your heart to be turned toward me and let that overflow. And it, that's how the obedience, the true fight against sin is one. Not when you figure out all the rules and how to discipline yourself into following them, but when you love Jesus enough that you love him more than the sin that you're pursuing in the first place. Yeah, I think two things I thought of with this too. Just to. And then we'll. We'll move on. But I think, number one, that self discipline Rut, I think is just because we like to control things. And even to your point of saying ambiguity, I don't like, like we, we want to control it and we feel like we have this false sense that we're able to do that by. Yeah, dealing in self discipline instead of in letting go and entrusting God fully. the other thing though, I loved, first of all, listening last week I wasn't here. I was actually somewhere warmer in the middle of the blizzard, but was able to, listen. And I love the podcast. Last week and this clicked. I don't know, it just stands out to me that the pointing to the mission and being on mission, I feel like for me at least, would be one way to let go of that self discipline rut and the excitement and the forward thinking and realizing like, what God has for me on the other side of this is so much better than the sin that I'm stuck in and, I don't know, a, focus on that and a heart posture of that and a prayerfulness towards that is, I think, something that might help us to let go. I think focusing on the mission also helps you. Helps us realize the liability of sin where it's like, the stakes are so high. Yeah. Like, why is it. It could not possibly be worth it for people to spend eternity apart from God? Because we decided we wanted to pursue whatever. Right. Or get stuck in your anger. Get stuck in all sorts of things. So. No, that's great. So, there were the three big points where a God who is greater, a power that is stronger, a glory that lasts longer. So of those three, if you could just share maybe, which one feels most difficult for you to believe and why that feels most difficult for you? Lana, did you want to start out? Oh, yeah. I'll jump in. Yeah. I think for me it's, believing and behaving like I believe that I have a God who is greater than my future fears. Because I think looking at the past, I can see his provision and faithfulness. And looking at the present, I can point to where he is providing and being all that he claims and promises to be. And it's not like my brain doesn't believe he will be that in the future. Or maybe I don't, you know, because that's where the anxiety can creep in or the what if? And that's when I can get into maybe a, Well, if I just do these things and take these steps, maybe that will help him, you know, do what he needs to. And I know that that's not true, but definitely thinking on the future fears, for myself, for those I care about. That's where I take power away from him. And it affects the way I pray, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I, could identify with most of these, which was just an indictment for me, but there were two, if I may just quickly. I think one was past pain. God that who is greater than past pain, I realized. And maybe this was for the first time for me or. I don't know, Joe just put words to it for me that, you know, m my story. We all have pain in our past. I think sometimes I'm more comfortable, hanging on to past pain, maybe as an excuse for present behavior or present perspective. And so what I wrote in there is he's, you know, if I'm holding on to past pain, I'm making something bigger than God. My pain is bigger than God is. And, of course, that's not true. And just realizing I think that comes with an element of self pity, if I'm being honest. And that's. So I gotta unpack that in my next counseling session. there's this attention between. Cause I was gonna talk about that one too. So now, well, I want you to continue. But there's a tension between going like, not minimizing the fact and the reality of pain. Like he used Joseph, which I thought was such a good example of going like, look at all this. And he could be an angry, bitter and it would make sense. But no, you see him at the end of his life with so much grace. What you intended for evil, God used for good, it made much of God. So there's a tension of going like, you don't minimize it or take it away. And that's what I'm saying more to you, to go like, yeah, you have awful stuff that it's going. It doesn't mean. That doesn't matter. Sure, but how do you exist now, you know, in a space where you're going, I'm not dealing in self pity. Honestly, I think, I think that knowing. I think self discovery is healthy to a point. You should be aware enough, but aware enough to know in any given sin area, which ditch you fall into. I know for me that I tend to make too much of it. And so my prayer has to be, would you, God, continue to be bigger than my past pain? It's probably tied to my second thing, which is future glory. I like being important. I like being important. And that's really. And Jimmy, you said this earlier, just, the idea that, there is a permanence, an everlasting element to God's glory. But I get stuck in the moment and I forget. Worth it. I think that's what you said. I forget that it's worth it, to follow Jesus and to give of myself and to sacrifice. Because I don't believe that it's worth it if I'm being honest in the moment, in a sinful, prideful, arrogant mind. I just don't believe that it's worth it. Worth it. And it probably bookends somehow in a way that I haven't fully connected to the past pain thing. Because at the end of the day, m. I'm just making a lot of things about me. Yeah, well, but that's what stuck with me. So. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, I, I resonate what you're saying about the future glory. I think that's the one that, I mean, I think for all Three of these. You know, there's a difference between intellectually and conceptually. I have no problem with them. I think these are great. But I think when it comes to how it actually plays out in life, I would say I spend a lot of time wanting to engineer the outcome and be, sure that I'm going to accomplish what I set out to accomplish, that my family is going to be what I want it to be, that my legacy is going to be whatever, you know, like, I think maybe delusions of grandeur sometimes, but, I think recognizing that whatever. If I. If I am engaged in the mission of that God's given and I am seeking to, love and follow Jesus with my life, then even if I don't accomplish the things that I think are important to accomplish, God's glory is going to come to be. It's going to become. To be without me. Whether he doesn't need for that, but that. That is, in a way, assuring that, like, what is ultimately best is going to happen and the future glory of God will be put on display. I think that's encouraging. That's good. Joe said something. I think it was the book that he was referring to where he had read. You know, some of us will orient our lives around a, past pain or, you know, a number of things. But I think the call of this passage is to orient everything around him, orient the past pain around him, orient my future fears around him, orient any glory around Him. At least for me, that was the tension. That word really stuck in my mind as I thought on this. Yeah, you guys hit on, I think, probably all my thoughts. I think the only thing I would add is I just don't think I think big enough. I don't believe. I don't treat God as a God who is bigger. And above all, I know it. And so, you know, I have, I think, in my kitchen a big sign that says pray big. Like, in the middle of my kitchen. And I always look and I'm like, yeah, and, let me. I'm gonna pray. Pray big. It's time. Let's do this really loud. Pray really loud. Is that. I mean, there is nothing beyond. And he wants more for us. Which, again, we'll hit on in just a minute. But so I think just orienting from the future glory thing to getting stuck in present need, you know, is just a posture that I just don't see him as big enough. Yeah, I think the little anecdote that Joe told about Alexander the Great was brilliant. Just the idea of like, this guy coming and saying, will you pay for my daughter's wedding? And then, I, like, I could see myself being like, the guy keeping the funds, being like, this guy's. This. What this guy's asking for is ridiculous. And Alexander Great's like, well, that's actually a compliment. He thinks I have it. He thinks I'm good for it. He thinks I'm generous enough to give it. But the reality is that we can't. We can't out pray. No. What God is capable of doing, he has it. And he wants, you know, he wants to do it. Now. Like, I can hear my conservative Baptist background saying, well, don't be a health and wealth gospel. That's true. That's not what I'm saying that God's going to make you rich. But, like, I think, he has good things for you, and he wants those good things for you. And that's available to us. But the good things he wants for us often, they're always not. They're always defined on his terms, and we often define them on ours. And it's only in retrospect that I can see how God's glory and my good have been inextricably linked. and I just forget that in the moment I need to look backwards to see how that's been true in my own past. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I want to end by kind of a little bit of a thought exercise. Pastor Joe did say. He said God wants more for us than we want for ourselves. And, as I thought about that, this week, just was really thinking, like, who do we know in our lives? We're not naming names on here. That could get awkward. who do we know in our lives that needs to hear this right now, that needs to believe this in a greater way? And how can we kind of come alongside them this week as we think about that? Yeah. I was thinking about our kids, Stacy, and I think, you know, you and I have kids in college. You have, you know, a bit younger, but I've been praying lately for my son, and I'm not gonna name his name, but, you know, that God's voice would be the loudest for him. And I think it's about this. It's about the fact that he has his own goals. Then you add the pressure of parental. The goals and dreams and expectations, peers, professors, culture, like you, it's just layered all of the expectations. But for our kids to know that God's desire for them is so much greater even than what we would pray for. Or project on them and to point them toward that. that was such a good question. And even it directed some of my prayers over the last 48 hours since you said that question as I prayed for him. Yeah, I was with, someone this week that just was sharing their story. And when they did it, it made me think about this a little bit and probably more. I guess I would say people that are stuck in a little bit of that past pain or. Or their present need feeling like it's just too much right now. And. And in this person's story, that basically it was a situation where just their life blew up like five years ago, six years ago. And it felt like there was. Felt hopeless. And, they were mentioning just that they began to pray even that they would see the goodness of God in the land of the living. Acknowledging that, like in praying that saying, I'm gonna see that here while I'm still living, was this posture of realizing the future glory so much more. And it oriented their heart towards seeing the beauty and the hope and the joy of a future glory in a way that they didn't realize. So, I don't know. I mean, I think. I get. I think about people right now that it feels hopeless. Maybe it feels stuck in either present circumstances or past pain just feels overwhelming. So, yeah, just praying that for them and pointing them to a God who is so much greater. But, yeah, I don't have a specific person in mind necessarily, but I've been thinking a lot as we've gone through this series. Just about, It's just exciting. I think God has some really big things in store for our church. Yeah. It just seems like, things just continue to happen that can only really be explained by him being involved and whether it's the growth. We're coming off the men's summit, which is incredible. Just. Yeah. Yeah. Just thinking about the opportunity to join the mission and be a part of God doing something unbelievable in Northeast Ohio. Something better than we could have asked for. Right. Better than we could have imagined. I mean, we're. I'll tell you, maybe I'll say it this way. I've been on staff here for 15 years. Five years ago is really hard with all the, you know, pandemic and so on and so forth. If you had told me five years ago. Yeah. That we'd be sitting here now with, you know, 4,000 people coming to church, scrambling to find seats every week in the middle of a building campaign, that would have been more than I could have asked or imagined. That's true. That's so true. And yet, I think there's more. And I don't even know what that looks like, but. Well, and I love that mindset of going like, let's think about this individually and pray it for people, but don't neglect thinking about it collectively. We can be so individually minded that it's like, no, we are the body of Christ, and let's pray towards that and think towards that and set our hearts and minds at it. Yeah, I would agree with all of that. Honestly, Lana, you talking about, about your son, Me thinking about my girls and Jimmy as you were speaking, I was just thinking my kids are still little, nine, seven, three. And, I can see now, even now, how they struggle with insecurities and things that just some of it is adoption stuff, some of it is behavioral stuff, and some of it is just school pressure and all that, and just, wanting for them to believe that God is bigger. And I realized as you were talking, Lana, that I need to believe that God can do miraculous things. and I want them to believe that too. And maybe they're not linked straight away, but I want God to perform miracles in my family. I want God this upcoming year to be doing things in the lives of my kids that have nothing to do with what I could have done. Absolutely. Because I don't want them to look and be like, my dad did this. And, yeah, I do want that. What I want most is for them to say, there is a God who sees me, who knows me, who loves me, and who does amazing things that can't be ascribed to anybody or anything else. And it's true for them, and it's true for me. It's true for every member of this church. That's right. Well, thanks so much for joining us this week, and have a great week, guys. see you next time. Thanks so much for tuning in to Beyond the Message. Before you go, just make sure to subscribe so you don't miss out on any content in the future. And also, also, we have content for you all week long on our CCC app, YouTube channel, or even on our website so that you can grow where you are all week long. Share that with friends and with family. Until next time. We'll see you soon.