Berufswahl Coaching für Jugendliche - Interview mit Annette Testrut

Show Notes

Jugendliche (aber nicht nur!) haben immer häufiger Schwierigkeiten, sich für einen Beruf zu entscheiden. Oft aus Angst vor falschen Entscheidungen, oft aus Angst vor Misserfolgen, die durch eine scheinbar perfekte Social-Media-Welt noch verstärkt wird. In dieser Folge ist es mir eine Ehre, Annette Testrut zu interviewen. Annette ist Berufswahl -Coachin und hat sich darauf spezialisiert, Menschen auf der Suche nach einer beruflichen Orientierung zu begleiten. In diesem Gespräch beschäftigen wir uns damit,

 👉🏻 warum es gerade Jugendlichen immer schwerer fällt, eine berufliche Laufbahn einzuschlagen

👉🏻 wie es zu häufigen Abbrüchen und Neustarts in den ersten Berufsjahren kommt

👉🏻 warum Annette Testrut sich für dieses sehr spezielle Coaching Feld entschieden hat

👉🏻 wie Annette genau vorgeht und auf was es beim Berufswahl Coaching ankommt

Wir hatten bei der Aufnahme ein paar Tonprobleme und bitten die Qualitätsschwankungen in dieser Folge zu entschuldigen 😌

+++

Links &Kontakt:

Ich freue mich über Anmerkungen und Themenwünsche in den Kommentarfunktionen. Natürlich sind auch – hoffentlich positive – Bewertungen toll ☺️

Kontakt Annette Testrut:

https://www.annette-testrut.de

[e-mail]

Kontakt Björn Bobach

https://bjoernbobach.de

[e-mail]

What is KlarSicht?

KlarSicht ist der Podcast von Björn Bobach rund um Coaching, Selbstverbesserung und Team Themen. Im einzelnen beschäftige ich mich mit Coaching Themen die mir immer wieder in meiner Praxis begegnen. Beispiele sind hierfür:

👉🏻 Ziele und wie man sie erreicht
👉🏻 Mehr Ruhe und Gelassenheit finden
👉🏻 Das eigene Potential voll oder besser nutzen
👉🏻 Hindernisse und Blockaden aus dem Weg räumen

Dieser Podcast lebt von meinen Zuhörern! Ich freue mich über Vorschläge über die Kommentarfunktionen oder direkte Nachrichten an [e-mail]!

[Björn]: Herzlich willkommen zu einer neuen
Folge von Klarsicht, dem Coaching Podcast mit

[Björn]: mir, Björn Bobach, in einem neuen Format
heute, denn ich habe die große Ehre, einen

[Björn]: Gast zu haben, dem ich ein paar spannende
Fragen stellen kann. Und zwar geht es um das

[Björn]: Thema Berufswahl und Berufswege. Und
mir gegenüber, virtuell zumindest, sitzt die

[Björn]: Annette Testroute, die sich Berufswahlcoach
und Berufswegecoach nennen kann. Und ich sag

[Björn]: erstmal, hallo Annette, schön, dass
du da bist.

[Annette Testrut]: And yes, I'm excited too!

[Björn]: Yeah. Woher kennen wir uns, Annette?
Magst du ganz kurz erzählen, wie sich unsere

[Björn]: Wege gekreuzt haben?

[Annette Testrut]: Our paths have crossed in
coaching training. It was a multi-level program

[Annette Testrut]: and over an intensive year
we spent together in coaching training with

[Annette Testrut]: many exercises and many valuable
conversations. We got to know each other and

[Annette Testrut]: learned to appreciate each
other. That's how we got in touch, also in

[Annette Testrut]: exchange for our next professional
steps.

[Björn]: Yes, and that was a very intense time,
even if sometimes there were months or weeks

[Björn]: between our training groups. You get
pretty close because you learn a lot about

[Björn]: yourself, because we coached each other
and that's why I'm really happy that you're

[Björn]: recording this episode with me today.
And I think the topic that you choose or the

[Björn]: niche that you have chosen is also
incredibly important and incredibly exciting.

[Björn]: Explain to me how you got to this and
what the difference is.

[Annette Testrut]: We did a very intensive coaching
training with all the facets that are part

[Annette Testrut]: of it. I have worked in the
job coaching field for 10 years before.

[Annette Testrut]: I think that coaching is
good for many people, especially for young

[Annette Testrut]: people. This is the topic
of vocational choice coaching. It is a big

[Annette Testrut]: part of my field. I have
to deal with students, graduates, and many

[Annette Testrut]: graduates who are facing
this big decision, what should come after school.

[Annette Testrut]: And in this important process
I accompany them. And vocational path coaching,

[Annette Testrut]: you can apply it when you
are in the professional runway.

[Björn]: Yeah.

[Annette Testrut]: ..are

[Annette Testrut]: for rights-based

[Björn]: When we talked about it in the past,
I always noticed that there was a real fire

[Björn]: burning in you. So that seems to be
something that is very important to you and

[Björn]: that is very close to your heart. So
where you actually

[Annette Testrut]: Thank

[Björn]: swear

[Annette Testrut]: you.

[Björn]: a big job, which then fits again. Can
you tell us why that is? What motivates you

[Björn]: that way?

[Annette Testrut]: If I look at the young people,
the students and the graduates, I have two

[Annette Testrut]: children myself. One is in
the high school and the other is in the high

[Annette Testrut]: school two years ago. The
school time is very tight. The students go

[Annette Testrut]: up. I would say that we have
been very well-led and have had little time

[Annette Testrut]: to look left and right, we
have had little opportunity to gain experience

[Annette Testrut]: together, professional experience.
And I have seen that many people have a great,

[Annette Testrut]: great uncertainty. To be
at the point for the first time, to have to

[Annette Testrut]: make a decision for yourself.

[Annette Testrut]: and there are many fears
and pressure, uncertainty, and I think it's

[Annette Testrut]: a great opportunity to make
use of this opportunity and to strengthen young

[Annette Testrut]: people. First of all, to
see what resources and competences are there.

[Annette Testrut]: Most young people don't know
that at all. They are only anchored in this

[Annette Testrut]: school grade system. Math
is not so great and I don't know that either.

[Annette Testrut]: But the least of them have
done their own view of themselves as a person.

[Annette Testrut]: I think that's such an important
step before entering the professional life.

[Annette Testrut]: Because this decision should
not only be made by grades or recommendations.

[Annette Testrut]: or family history, but it
should just correspond to this person. And

[Annette Testrut]: I think that's just... It's
great when you know who you are and then you

[Annette Testrut]: take the next steps. It gives
you the chance to find your dream job or to

[Annette Testrut]: be happy in your job.

[Björn]: Hmm.

[Björn]: you graduated from high school, then
you went to civil service, then you studied,

[Björn]: then you had your job. My generation
is also the one who stayed in the same job

[Björn]: for 30 or 40 years, or stays, and then
had to do it until retirement. That was how

[Björn]: I knew it. Now we're in a time where
people... the children, the teenagers, actually

[Björn]: have more freedom to discover themselves.
So the civil service for men is social

[Björn]: What is the reason why young people
have so little orientation?

[Annette Testrut]: two points. The first point
is that you have written something about which

[Annette Testrut]: civil service to weight.
First of all, there are many, many more possibilities.

[Annette Testrut]: We are talking about 20,000
different student groups, almost 19,000 student

[Annette Testrut]: groups, recognized student

[Björn]: Wahnsinn.

[Annette Testrut]: groups. plus work and travel,
Puffdi, FSJ, work and travel, and what, I don't

[Annette Testrut]: know. So that means the facets
of the possibilities are incredibly large and

[Annette Testrut]: the overview of how to keep
them is also very, very difficult. That's

[Björn]: Hmm.

[Annette Testrut]: just a challenge based on
the many possibilities that are available.

[Annette Testrut]: Looking inside, of course,
there are many ways to try out, but there are

[Annette Testrut]: often also things led by
the club, in school, in the projects. As I

[Annette Testrut]: said, the school, I think,
can't afford it either, looks at other things,

[Annette Testrut]: which are perhaps not so
relevant for the profession. The parents may

[Annette Testrut]: have a good view or look
behind the scenes, but it's not necessarily

[Annette Testrut]: the contact partner that
the young people are looking for. Because they

[Annette Testrut]: always feel the expectations
of the parents behind it. I can confirm that

[Annette Testrut]: from my own experience. You
can't completely take them back as a parent.

[Annette Testrut]: Even if you try to take yourself
out of it. I think that's why I know all the

[Annette Testrut]: children so well, that they
already know what is desired in the family.

[Annette Testrut]: There is a certain pressure.
And as I said, this decision-making is something

[Annette Testrut]: that children or young people
learn relatively little today. There is still

[Annette Testrut]: a lot of control and voting.
also with the media and so on, but you don't

[Annette Testrut]: know this little bit more
freely. And now you should make the first

[Björn]: Hmm.

[Annette Testrut]: decision that is so important
and in the head, which is also for many, for

[Annette Testrut]: God's sake, that is the decision
for my life. I have to say that this is a first

[Annette Testrut]: decision on the way to professional

[Björn]: I am.

[Annette Testrut]: life. This is one of many.
And to convey that, it also takes a lot of

[Annette Testrut]: fear. I say that there are
many possibilities to find a new way or to

[Annette Testrut]: go differently. Or a study
that

[Björn]: Hmm.

[Annette Testrut]: may not be suitable at first,
can give a completely new picture with a combination

[Annette Testrut]: of another education or study.

[Annette Testrut]: And that's something you
have to tell people, that the future of the

[Annette Testrut]: profession, especially for
the generation, is still so many things...

[Annette Testrut]: that we can't see off yet.
I think the most important thing is the flexibility

[Annette Testrut]: and

[Björn]: Hmm.

[Annette Testrut]: the ability to adapt to these
changing situations. Sometimes

[Björn]: Hmm.

[Annette Testrut]: it's more like a shock control
that's there, but before I decide to make a

[Annette Testrut]: wrong decision, I rather
choose not to make a wrong decision. And that

[Annette Testrut]: doesn't help either, but
I always encourage... to get started. In the

[Annette Testrut]: process, a lot is created.
Trying out, making practices, maybe. Talking

[Annette Testrut]: to people, having the experience.
So don't get lost in this state of fear.

[Björn]: Now you just mentioned the media. One
of my hate topics is always social media. I

[Björn]: can also imagine that for young people
who grow up with Instagram and Co. or TikTok

[Björn]: is now totally on the front line, even
with us. They will be confronted with a visible

[Björn]: perfection and a visible always successful.
Which of course is not a good orientation.

[Björn]: So if you didn't notice from the orphanage
that it's okay to need several approaches,

[Björn]: that it's okay to have fractures in
your life, in the sense of direction changes,

[Björn]: and that you don't always have to be
perfect. So if this big belief sentence says,

[Björn]: I always have to be super successful,
the choice is of course incredibly difficult.

[Björn]: So if I get involved in that... I get
a bit of a headache because I get completely

[Björn]: hopeless when I see what the actual
scale is, where I'm supposed to go. I also

[Björn]: often observe a different story. I
work in a training company twice a week and

[Björn]: I always look for trainees. And that's
getting less and less. We don't believe it.

[Björn]: There is a lack of experts in Germany
and we don't have enough training places. In

[Björn]: the industry that I am in, there are
no trainees, although that is a well-paid job,

[Björn]: which is simply because it is not a
glam thing. So it's not comparable to the rumour

[Björn]: that is shown in social media. Is that
a component that you... that is not... if it's

[Björn]: not somehow Instagram compatible?

[Annette Testrut]: I would like to continue
this. I'm sure there are many orientations

[Annette Testrut]: about this. There are many
people who want to make a TV series out of

[Annette Testrut]: Netflix. I think that's cool.
The state attorney is great. I will explain

[Annette Testrut]: how the process is until
it is not so popular. Of course, only this

[Annette Testrut]: world is shown there. Also

[Björn]: Hmm.

[Annette Testrut]: on Instagram. Therefore,
to run after such things...

[Annette Testrut]: You have to look at yourself
first. Who am I? What can I do? What makes

[Annette Testrut]: me happy? Is that

[Björn]: Hmm.

[Annette Testrut]: also this apparent glamour,
this short-term thing that I imagine my life

[Annette Testrut]: to be? I always do a survey,
I do different exercises, for example, which

[Annette Testrut]: position does a profession
have for you? What does a profession have to

[Annette Testrut]: do for you? And then it is
also amazing that many say, yes, I want to

[Annette Testrut]: live a reasonable life, but
I don't have to get rich. I also need security.

[Annette Testrut]: This happens often when you
go a little bit deeper into the second step

[Annette Testrut]: and say what

[Björn]: Hmm.

[Annette Testrut]: does the job have for you,
what does it mean for you, what does it have

[Annette Testrut]: to

[Björn]: Mm.

[Annette Testrut]: fulfill for you. And then
I am surprised that the topic of security

[Annette Testrut]: I think

[Björn]: Yeah.

[Annette Testrut]: that striving for more security
is already there. And as I said, you might

[Annette Testrut]: have to inform yourself again,
what career opportunities do I have with a

[Annette Testrut]: training job, what can I
do out of it. Maybe it's the worry that I can't

[Annette Testrut]: earn enough money, that I
can't feed a family, that's actually in your

[Annette Testrut]: head. There is also a lot
of ignorance and you have to explain a lot

[Annette Testrut]: or at least show where you
get the necessary information, where you research

[Annette Testrut]: and also show opportunities.

[Björn]: You've actually made a nice turn on
how you work. Now we've been talking about

[Björn]: why you do this and why I think there's
really a firm need for this, this disorientation.

[Björn]: This also means, for example, that
customers who have children at the age that

[Björn]: makes them despair, that the children
don't fall

[Annette Testrut]: you

[Björn]: on their feet. So that it's so hard
for the children to take these first steps.

[Björn]: And... Now, of course, it's totally
exciting how you work. So what do you do with

[Björn]: the youth? Are there any specialties
that would surprise me now, for example, if

[Björn]: we... we enjoyed the same education.
But are there any specialties that you use

[Björn]: with young people?

[Annette Testrut]: I will of course also turn
to many exercises from our joint training,

[Annette Testrut]: even if it is about feeling
or imagination. I have done another training

[Annette Testrut]: course about the Zürich-Meinzer
runway consultation. It's called the book choice

[Annette Testrut]: coach, it's also a certified
term. And there I actually have access to different

[Annette Testrut]: exercises. And we work with...
There are different things, and I put them

[Annette Testrut]: together like a puzzle piece.
That's very exciting. So when the young people

[Annette Testrut]: come to me and say, I really
don't have a concrete idea yet, then I say,

[Annette Testrut]: okay, we'll talk about concrete
professional ideas in the first or second term,

[Annette Testrut]: maybe in the third. So let's
see. We'll just see who you are first. And

[Annette Testrut]: there are different

[Björn]: Mm-hmm.

[Annette Testrut]: exercises. you can start
with the first one.

[Annette Testrut]: to work out the characteristics,
to work out strengths and interests. These

[Annette Testrut]: are different exercises that
are behind it. First of all, it is only about

[Annette Testrut]: the person himself. The job
does not have much to look for. Many techniques

[Annette Testrut]: that we have learned, such
as reframing and changing perspective, I work

[Annette Testrut]: with pictures, for example.
It is very difficult for some people to develop

[Annette Testrut]: a vision of the future. They
cannot put that into words. Sometimes I go

[Annette Testrut]: out and say, if it is difficult
for you to formulate it that way today... Until

[Annette Testrut]: next time, bring a collage
with you, or make a PC, or make a design, paste

[Annette Testrut]: it, paint it, whatever, just
come to another level. And then it's quite

[Annette Testrut]: amazing, then sometimes the
ideas are foiled, because it's also a completely

[Annette Testrut]: different level. Then you
can somehow put it into words, how should one

[Annette Testrut]: live in ten years, or show
that on the basis of pictures.

[Björn]: Hmm.

[Annette Testrut]: Yes, these are the first...
and then it goes in different fields of interest,

[Annette Testrut]: or in different areas of
study. At every point we find that we are always

[Annette Testrut]: clustering. is so relevant
for the job and the first ideas and that is

[Annette Testrut]: always checked in the counter-check.
So to say, the course of study, what do I have

[Annette Testrut]: to bring with it, I also
look at as a person, what did we work out,

[Annette Testrut]: how does that fit together
and then I have

[Björn]: Hmm.

[Annette Testrut]: already had very exciting
experiences. So I have a friend who had already

[Annette Testrut]: had...

[Annette Testrut]: I have to say that I work
in a way that the youth develop their own ideas.

[Annette Testrut]: I don't go from the outside
and say that's not for you or

[Björn]: That wouldn't

[Annette Testrut]: look

[Björn]: be coaching, would it?

[Annette Testrut]: at it that way. That would
be advice. That's why it's very important to

[Annette Testrut]: have the approach. We work
on that. And then he visualized it all. He

[Annette Testrut]: looked at it and the color
was almost all over his face and said That

[Annette Testrut]: doesn't fit at all! Oh god!
That doesn't fit at all!

[Annette Testrut]: I could imagine

[Björn]: 12.

[Annette Testrut]: that it would work for a
couple of years, but the skills and resources

[Annette Testrut]: that are in you and your
values and interests, what you want to achieve,

[Annette Testrut]: I can't do that in my job.
It doesn't

[Annette Testrut]: work. I have to change that.

[Björn]: That's very interesting, Annette, because
that's also this other thing that happens a

[Björn]: lot. People, young people, even older
people, sometimes start an education or a degree

[Björn]: and then, completely amazed, throw
the towel after 6 to 12 months because they

[Björn]: find out that something is wrong, that
doesn't fit, I've experienced that myself a

[Annette Testrut]: Yeah.

[Björn]: few times in education. and don't really
know why. Then you come

[Annette Testrut]: I can't

[Björn]: back

[Annette Testrut]: know. Yeah. I can't

[Björn]: into

[Annette Testrut]: know.

[Björn]: the game to find out why that didn't
work. And then actually blind-fittingly fall

[Björn]: back into the next option. And then
I find what you do with the youth is incredibly

[Björn]: valuable. Is there anything that repeats
itself? So that's a thing where I ask myself,

[Björn]: does that have something to do with…
the tendencies that exist in education and

[Björn]: so on, or to do things socially, that
there are fundamental things where you say,

[Björn]: that it repeats itself over and over
again, and you can actually also tell your

[Björn]: parents what they should pay attention
to, to make their children easier.

[Annette Testrut]: So, directly that this is
repeated, then you have to say that this is

[Annette Testrut]: very, very individual. And
what is behind it, why a decision is difficult,

[Annette Testrut]: is also.

[Björn]: Mm.

[Annette Testrut]: So that's really... You can't
really get it to one point. But what you can

[Annette Testrut]: say, which is definitely
helpful, is definitely... If we talk about

[Annette Testrut]: the school agreements, no
matter which school agreement it is, it is

[Annette Testrut]: about a year before you start
to deal

[Björn]: Mm-hmm.

[Annette Testrut]: with the topic. Because it
also simply takes time, no matter how it works.

[Annette Testrut]: The process of thinking about
it and of taking care of it should be approached

[Annette Testrut]: about a year before the agreement.

[Björn]: Mm-hmm.

[Annette Testrut]: That means that it is possible
to try out new things in this time. I recommend

[Annette Testrut]: that too. There

[Björn]: Mm.

[Annette Testrut]: is really a lack of practical
experience. In recent years, anyway, because

[Annette Testrut]: of Corona, there have been
no practical practices. As I said, school time

[Annette Testrut]: is pretty limited. There
is little left to gain experience. And there,

[Annette Testrut]: simply to say, I'll do it.
A small job. I try to make a day of practice

[Annette Testrut]: again. I go to the Schnupperstudium.
You can go to almost all universities as a

[Annette Testrut]: guest speaker. Many universities
have the opportunity to use such opportunities

[Annette Testrut]: for students, as well as
with a mentor, to gain experience. Because

[Annette Testrut]: the experience... with which
you can balance the missing parts. And

[Björn]: Hmm.

[Annette Testrut]: if I don't do this, I won't
get a step further. I always say that only

[Annette Testrut]: in my little room and say,
Oh my God, what am I doing? Am I doing this

[Annette Testrut]: or that? I don't know. This
does not help young people. They also need

[Annette Testrut]: to gain experience, also
with people with disabilities. When first ideas

[Annette Testrut]: are, who do you know, who
is studying, with whom can you exchange ideas.

[Annette Testrut]: It is also the case that
there are selection procedures at universities

[Annette Testrut]: that are before the registration
date. Sometimes practitioners are required

[Annette Testrut]: who have to be registered
beforehand. So I recommend to start with it

[Annette Testrut]: in time.

[Björn]: Hmm.

[Annette Testrut]: to be patient as parents
without putting too much pressure on them.

[Annette Testrut]: I know how difficult it is,
but to keep

[Björn]: Mm-hmm.

[Annette Testrut]: the space.

[Björn]: How many coaching sessions do you need
on average with a job-seeker?

[Annette Testrut]: When I started, I thought
I would make packages. I quickly got rid of

[Annette Testrut]: them, because they are very,
very intuitive. Some

[Björn]: Hmm.

[Annette Testrut]: are very good at self-reflection
and already have ideas. Some really need longer.

[Annette Testrut]: I'll say, the professional
ideas, usually after 4-5 appointments, we have

[Annette Testrut]: a very good orientation.

[Björn]: Okay.

[Annette Testrut]: Then there is also, I do
that too, who is outside of it. I am of course

[Annette Testrut]: informed about the degree
programs and can at least tell you where you

[Annette Testrut]: get some information. Of
course, I can't say everything from the FF

[Annette Testrut]: about 20,000 degree programs,
but I can at least give orientation and research

[Annette Testrut]: help. These are also on the
outside. And if, for example, on... I look

[Annette Testrut]: for a place to study or a
place to study. I also accompany them in the

[Annette Testrut]: application process, because
that is a new experience, or in the preparation

[Annette Testrut]: for the assessment center
or presentation talks. Then it takes a few

[Annette Testrut]: more days. It also happens
that the parents say, yes, now we have an idea.

[Annette Testrut]: You can follow this until
the contract is signed. I also invite you to

[Annette Testrut]: do so.

[Björn]: Yeah, Annette, was ich wirklich wieder
toll finde, ist wenn ich hier die Zuhörer sehen

[Björn]: es nicht, aber ich kann sehen, wie
du das Strahlen in den Augen kriegst, wenn

[Björn]: du über das Thema sprichst. Also man
merkt wirklich, dass dir das unheimlich am

[Björn]: Herzen liegt. Ich glaube, die Kids,
Jugendlichen, wie auch immer, sind da echt

[Björn]: in unheimlich guten und fürsorglichen
Händen. Jetzt. Is it so? Vielleicht erzählst

[Björn]: du nochmal ganz kurz, wie man mit dir
in Kontakt treten kann? Das schreibe ich auch

[Björn]: nochmal in die Podcast-Beschreibung
natürlich rein, also dieser Folge. Vielleicht

[Björn]: gibst du das noch ganz kurz unseren
Zuhörern mit?

[Annette Testrut]: On my homepage you can find
the contact information. You can find it on

[Annette Testrut]: www.annettetest.de

[Annette Testrut]: and you can find all the
possibilities to contact me.

[Björn]: Super. Vielen Dank für das tolle Gespräch,
Annette. Ich finde es nochmal, das ist ein

[Björn]: tolles Thema, also ich finde toll,
wie du dafür brennst und ich glaube, da war

[Björn]: heute eine Menge dabei, wo die Zuhörer
auch was von mitnehmen konnten. Ich hoffe,

[Björn]: euch hat das Interview auch gefallen,
also euch Zuhörern. Ich würde mich freuen,

[Björn]: wenn ihr mir treu bleibt, wenn ihr
diese Podcast-Folge oder den Podcast generell

[Björn]: bewertet, je nachdem, über welches
Portal ihr das hört. Bleibt mir treu und ich

[Björn]: sage bis zum nächsten Mal. Ciao.

[Annette Testrut]: Cheers!

[Björn]: Tschüss anette.