Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Meaningful stories and conversations from the fringe of societal norms.
[01:00:03:06 - 01:00:03:06]
[01:00:03:06 - 01:00:03:12]
[01:00:03:12 - 01:00:08:18]
[01:00:08:18 - 01:00:33:11]
[01:00:33:11 - 01:00:34:18]
[01:00:34:18 - 01:00:45:16]
(Music)
[01:00:45:16 - 01:00:50:11]
[01:00:50:11 - 01:00:53:15]
[01:01:07:14 - 01:01:09:08]
The only second repeater, right?
[01:01:10:12 - 01:01:12:03]
I guess, so maybe the first triple.
[01:01:13:08 - 01:01:19:19]
Yeah, was there a triple? Well, this. Oh yeah, well, yeah, there you go. First double and triple.
[01:01:21:20 - 01:01:24:02]
And Jimmy Cheers. How's it going, Jimmy?
[01:01:25:05 - 01:01:29:02]
Going great, man. Well, thanks to you guys for jumping on.
[01:01:30:21 - 01:01:46:19]
Jimmy, you were one of the narratives that I wanted to explore a little bit. Speaking of change, you've had a lot of change in your life. And you know, how's it all been going? How's the transition? And maybe help us out, walk us through the transition a little bit.
[01:01:47:22 - 01:01:48:14]
Yeah, for sure.
[01:01:49:16 - 01:01:56:07]
Excited to be on here, thanks for the invite. Excited to be in the area and could be happy to be with West Bank.
[01:01:57:10 - 01:02:06:13]
Just an awesome group and crew and location. I have no complaints. This is an amazing part of the world and fitting in seamlessly,
[01:02:06:13 - 01:02:08:03]
just loving it, man.
[01:02:09:06 - 01:02:09:19]
That's awesome.
[01:02:09:19 - 01:02:11:03]
the listeners a little
[01:02:11:03 - 01:02:12:01]
timeline.
[01:02:13:01 - 01:02:21:05]
Sure, yeah. So my wife and I moved out here from Tennessee back in April. It's first full season, guiding here on South Fork of the Snake.
[01:02:22:06 - 01:02:22:09]
And
[01:02:22:09 - 01:02:27:11]
to that, I got it for 10 years in Tennessee. So we made the move all the way across the country.
[01:02:28:17 - 01:02:33:02]
And meanwhile, when you were guiding in Tennessee, right? Like you were still coming out this way.
[01:02:34:08 - 01:02:35:23]
Yeah, yeah, spent plenty of time.
[01:02:37:00 - 01:02:50:05]
Went to a guide school out here before I started guiding professionally in Tennessee and fell in love with the area. I have plenty of friends out here. So we'd come back and visit and made this home now. How'd you find West Bank?
[01:02:51:20 - 01:02:55:11]
The guy hosting the podcast right there, Mr. Mike Dolls.
[01:02:57:17 - 01:03:04:18]
Yeah, no, Mike, I'm sure as he knows with Worldcast when I went to the guide school and that's where we first crossed paths.
[01:03:05:23 - 01:03:09:11]
Awesome. Did you have any good stories driving across country?
[01:03:12:03 - 01:03:17:18]
No, it's probably a good thing. An uneventful trip moving, while you're traveling that far.
[01:03:19:07 - 01:03:50:12]
We moved out here and luckily we had a moving company that moved a majority of everything, but they wouldn't take taxidermy or guns. So I had all those packed into a U-Haul and I was pretty nervous about stopping and spending any time outside of a final destination. So seamless trip, happy to be here. That's awesome. That would have been funny to watch Cop pull up the back. And you've been hunting quite a bit recently, right?
[01:03:52:02 - 01:04:02:00]
Yeah, yeah. Been bird hunting, man, quite a bit since kind of our guidance season started to slow down. It's an awesome area.
[01:04:03:07 - 01:04:08:11]
It's been really good. I've been a lot of fun exploring new areas and new territory.
[01:04:09:19 - 01:04:13:20]
Our water levels are down. So that's making navigating the river pretty interesting.
[01:04:14:21 - 01:04:18:18]
But yeah, no, I'm in a ball. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah.
[01:04:19:21 - 01:04:33:00]
Yeah, yesterday I was out duck hunting and got super lucky. I killed a blonde mallard. It's like one in 30,000. It's like a genetic deficiency, kind of like an albino. It's pretty cool. But first one of those I've ever seen or killed.
[01:04:34:03 - 01:05:00:10]
And the whole neck and feathers, like what, or do you have a photo? Yeah, so. What kind of photo is it? Yeah, they bleach out a little bit. So like they're speculum where they usually have like real bright, vibrant color. That'd be the darkest part on the duck. But it's almost, it's not black, definitely more brown. But if you were to compare it to a standard mallard,
[01:05:01:13 - 01:05:21:14]
it looked like, you could just imagine like a mount that's been sitting out in the sun for 10 years. It's just bleached out. It's kind of cool. It's not perfect white, but off-white. It's a cool looking duck. Wow, that is cool. Congrats. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, congrats. You said one in 30,000?
[01:05:22:20 - 01:05:32:02]
Yeah, one in 30,000, maybe even more than that. It's kind of a conservative figure from the research. But yeah, they're cool. Wow, that's awesome. Now it's one in 31,000.
[01:05:33:07 - 01:05:33:16]
Yeah, there you go.
[01:05:35:04 - 01:05:35:05]
(Laughing)
[01:05:36:09 - 01:05:42:10]
Well, yeah, we're gonna transition a little bit to talking about Australia.
[01:05:42:10 - 01:05:57:12]
thought it would be kind of a nice twist to explore your narrative a little bit, Jimmy, which we could also get back to, but also talk about the trip. And it might be, I thought it'd be cool to have someone that wasn't on the trip as well,
[01:05:59:08 - 01:06:01:21]
because it's a different place. It's pretty interesting.
[01:06:03:00 - 01:06:32:19]
And yeah, so we'll dive right into it because the other side of that coin is Matthews was on the trip. And I'd be interested to hear your thoughts, Brian, because my response, they give mini trip reviews all day long in the shop, for the people that know that you went somewhere. They're like, weren't you just somewhere? I was in Australia and then, but how have you been describing the trip?
[01:06:33:20 - 01:06:38:11]
It's always hard to really capture what it felt like to be on a trip when people ask.
[01:06:39:14 - 01:06:40:09]
But I've been saying this
[01:06:40:09 - 01:06:45:16]
in the top trips we've ever taken. And it's a lot of ingredients, the
[01:06:45:16 - 01:06:50:10]
Australia, the crew, and then the people on our
[01:06:50:10 - 01:06:53:14]
comes together to make something really, really special.
[01:06:54:18 - 01:06:55:13]
I think our fishing
[01:06:55:13 - 01:07:13:19]
it wasn't terrible. It wasn't lights out. It was probably average there, but we had some good anglers and everyone got their fish and there was enough action every day. I really enjoyed the three guides we had. And Josh was kind enough to come up and spend time with us. Really good people, very passionate, very energetic,
[01:07:15:13 - 01:07:32:10]
connect with them on a personal level while you're not seeing fish on the boat. So even in the slow moments, you're still having fun. And that landscape is just so different. And I've only been to Australia twice. I'd never been to Cape York, but it's a place I want to go back to. And that landscape just kind of calls you.
[01:07:34:14 - 01:07:41:17]
Yeah, I think that's what kind of spawned the trip, right? You see the picture of the red cliffs
[01:07:42:17 - 01:07:53:01]
and the Caribbean water. And just because I did a very poor job of introducing it, we're talking about Aussie fly fisher, Josh Hutchens, who's the owner.
[01:07:54:10 - 01:08:11:14]
That's who we went with to the Cape York Lodge. So we're talking about the west side of Cape York in Wepa is the name of the town. But did you know going into it that those red cliffs were boxing?
[01:08:12:18 - 01:08:18:14]
No, no idea. I'd just seen a picture, but when we saw the mines, I kind of, you know, I put it together.
[01:08:19:15 - 01:08:19:19]
Yeah.
[01:08:21:10 - 01:08:21:10]
(Laughs)
[01:08:22:11 - 01:08:35:22]
When you saw those cliffs, does that something that I'm just trying to, I'm trying to sort out how out of it I am versus like most people like, oh yeah, that's red stuff is bauxite.
[01:08:37:22 - 01:08:57:05]
No, I wouldn't have known that. But you know, that's the kind of thing that when you go on a trip like that, you know, you're completely out of your element and what you used to see on a daily basis, maybe. Once in a lifetime for a lot of people, just getting to experience the things like that, even outside the fishing, is what it's all about.
[01:08:58:12 - 01:09:08:15]
Yeah, and I mean, you know, you guys might have to point me back towards the fishing because I love all the peripheral stuff, but the bauxite mine, so it's surface mining.
[01:09:09:15 - 01:09:14:22]
So I mean, while they are scorching the earth, they're not digging down, what does it matter? Like 10 feet?
[01:09:16:02 - 01:09:16:07]
Yeah.
[01:09:17:20 - 01:09:22:06]
But the crazy thing is bauxite, you know, to summarize it, bauxite is aluminum,
[01:09:23:22 - 01:09:31:23]
but in order for bauxite to be transformed into aluminum, it needs some ridiculous amount of electricity.
[01:09:33:11 - 01:09:42:12]
And it takes so much electricity that they, you know, we got to, they call it the dirt waterfall. So they have conveyor belts running,
[01:09:43:13 - 01:10:00:15]
you know, the one that we kept seeing, that conveyor belt was like eight kilometers from the mine. They spray it down so the bauxite dust doesn't come off. And then it goes straight from the conveyor belt onto a pore, you know, pouring machine.
[01:10:01:16 - 01:10:03:15]
And then they call that the dirt waterfall.
[01:10:05:05 - 01:10:45:07]
So they're actually taking the bauxite from the ship, bringing it to another country that has cheaper electricity to then transform it into, I don't know, the whole thing was wild to me. That's crazy. The ship loader was cool. Remember going under that thing? Yeah. Or the bauxite in and like, we came back up one day in the afternoon and I don't know if, you know, the dirt waterfall guy was asleep at the wheel, but the ship was literally at an angle like this, like it was all backloaded. These are big, big ships. Yeah. I think you need to put some more in the front end, but we had to laugh at it.
[01:10:46:07 - 01:10:49:17]
Well, I mean, there's like one of the guides that imagine if, right?
[01:10:51:04 - 01:10:54:00]
I mean, if you're the captain of the ship,
[01:10:55:04 - 01:10:57:15]
that's a big haul to lose, like with a mishap.
[01:11:00:02 - 01:11:03:06]
You have one job. Yeah, you have one job to do.
[01:11:03:06 - 01:11:07:18]
Well, let's talk about some wildlife before we dive into the fish too, because
[01:11:07:18 - 01:11:12:07]
well, we were just talking about doing some bird hunting.
[01:11:12:07 - 01:11:20:21]
couple of amazing moments on the trip with the crew where someone, a buddy of mine had just told me about this movie, "Listers."
[01:11:22:00 - 01:11:26:21]
Have you heard of it, Jimmy? Did you see it?
[01:11:27:23 - 01:11:32:19]
No, actually, I think we were talking about that with AJ when we were on the water one week. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
[01:11:34:21 - 01:11:49:06]
So I just started to watch some of it. So we were joking about the movie saying we should have a Lister fishing trip where there's also a bird competition going on at the same time.
[01:11:50:09 - 01:11:52:15]
We thought Tanzania would be a good spot.
[01:11:53:16 - 01:12:20:08]
But anyhow, the first, I mean, correct, jump in, Matthew. Wasn't it the first morning that someone went north? The first morning someone went north, which I don't think was the first morning. Might've been like day two, but yes, you're right. Yeah, so at this lodge, right, you either get in a vehicle and drive about an hour north and then pick up a boat, or you put in right in town.
[01:12:21:14 - 01:12:41:10]
And the first morning, I think it was, I think Jed and Gilligan, right? Right. So they're in the vehicle while the other guys jump out to hook the boat up. And then here comes this cockatoo, which is, is it the
[01:12:41:10 - 01:13:19:15]
Red-tailed. That has the ingredients. It's like the rarest bird in Australia, one of them, right? So it has this, the feathers that drop down. So the guides freeze, the guys in the truck don't know what's going on. So they're like, "Holy shit, look at that bird. "What bird is that?" And they're like, "Shh." So they're going to take out the cameras. And then right when the cameras come out, bird flies away.
[01:13:20:15 - 01:13:30:09]
Cameras go back into the Yeti box and then the bird flies down again. Yeah, anyway, it was remarkable. And then they saw it again, right?
[01:13:31:21 - 01:13:33:18]
Yeah, later in the week. Might've been the last day.
[01:13:35:14 - 01:13:47:08]
I never saw it. I never saw it. I looked every time, I was a little jealous. I was, yeah, I mean, short of like literally walking around the jungle, I was trying to-- That's where I'm going back. Trying to find it, yeah.
[01:13:48:08 - 01:13:48:20]
And then
[01:13:48:20 - 01:13:58:00]
were with me with the dingo or no? The dingo, yeah, I was with you for that one. We actually saw a dingo chase the car.
[01:13:59:13 - 01:14:01:17]
And then-- Yeah, for a good one. Chase the what?
[01:14:02:20 - 01:14:07:20]
We actually, we saw a wild dingo, but then it started to chase the truck.
[01:14:07:20 - 01:14:22:07]
Oh yeah, I gotcha. And then it kind of did like one of these moves where it just did a slow walk around. And apparently all dingoes are solitary creatures,
[01:14:23:09 - 01:14:29:20]
which I didn't know about. It looked like something you wouldn't wanna mess with. No, not even close.
[01:14:31:09 - 01:14:32:15]
I might've rolled up the window even.
[01:14:35:06 - 01:14:52:05]
Well, onto the fishing, because yeah, I mean, your recap is very similar to mine. Like I just thought that obviously in terms of travel, like Jim, as you said earlier, Jimmy, and some people, right, that's a trip of a lifetime.
[01:14:53:17 - 01:14:55:11]
It's a long way to go.
[01:14:57:14 - 01:15:01:00]
But I think the things that for me at least that,
[01:15:02:01 - 01:15:13:12]
I mean, everyone speaks English, and I think sometimes we forget about how comfortable that is. Yeah, it just makes you feel a little bit closer to home,
[01:15:15:01 - 01:15:20:13]
which maybe is a bad thing at times, but on this particular trip was a good thing.
[01:15:22:09 - 01:15:29:20]
And Cairns, right, like the town of Cairns, which is probably the jumping off point to the Great Barrier Reef.
[01:15:30:21 - 01:15:38:11]
And so there's a stopping point there. Spend the night there, and that's a cool spot.
[01:15:38:11 - 01:15:45:00]
Was it like New Zealand though? They speak English, but it's a little bit different. So you still feel far away?
[01:15:46:06 - 01:16:14:06]
Yeah, I'll be right back. Okay, all right. And the accents, the lingo and the slang terms, it's just so pop here, witty and funny. Like I remember we were going, after overnighting Cairns, we were in an Uber to go to the airport to finally do the last leg to weep out. And we told our driver we're going to weep out. He's like, "Oh, there's a lot of big lizards up there." It's meaning the huge crocodiles. He was like, "What, no, common sense, when's the day? Just, don't be any good." (Laughing) Yeah. I love it.
[01:16:15:17 - 01:16:25:12]
What are they called? Burgers, Twitchers, but I guess that's a common one, right? Yeah, I forget who said that first. It's like, "Oh, we got a Twitcher here."
[01:16:26:17 - 01:16:29:14]
(Laughing) I'm gonna write that down. I'm saving that one.
[01:16:31:16 - 01:16:46:21]
(Laughing) But I mean, while traveling far, those two elements, I feel like that's kind of a big deal, especially when you're talking about the fishing aspect in terms of English, right? There's not much lost in communication.
[01:16:49:01 - 01:16:55:08]
And for a short amount of time, that helps you achieve goals probably pretty quicker.
[01:16:57:01 - 01:17:05:23]
But also I would say the guide staff, as you mentioned, Brian, right? Like these were professionals.
[01:17:07:04 - 01:17:17:04]
Totally. And they were young and wildly knowledgeable and really proud of their country, which is pretty cool.
[01:17:17:04 - 01:17:27:17]
proud of Bossy Flyfish there and what they're building. I mean, you can just feel all of that. They all take ownership in it. And they want you to catch fish almost more than you do it sometimes. It makes them so happy.
[01:17:29:02 - 01:17:29:07]
Yeah.
[01:17:30:18 - 01:17:53:03]
Yeah, and fun and funny, right? Like I think they, like all guides, right? Jimmy, I mean, it's still, you know, I mean, different in a lodge setting because you know you're gonna be with people for the next six or seven days as opposed to day trips. But I think they warmed up to us a little bit.
[01:17:54:21 - 01:17:58:16]
Would you agree or not? If they didn't, they're very good fakers.
[01:18:00:17 - 01:18:12:04]
I felt like they were best friends. Yeah, and I mean, that was our first trip there. So, I mean, it was, you know, I mean, I wouldn't say it's exploratory because we've done trips with Bossy Flyfisher in the past.
[01:18:14:03 - 01:18:26:04]
But new spot, new area. And then, you know, the fishing. I mean, that's, I mean, we're talking about a lot of the peripheral stuff, but obviously the fishing,
[01:18:27:19 - 01:18:30:02]
I found it mind boggled
[01:18:32:00 - 01:18:49:00]
just because, you know, the gear in which they recommend you to use is, they're doing that for a reason. And I agree with it. And specifically the lines, right? They want you to have a 15 foot intermediate clear tip line.
[01:18:50:10 - 01:18:56:04]
And then they're very down on any sort of tapered leader.
[01:18:58:08 - 01:19:09:14]
So they're actually using one piece of 20 pounds that is starts out at about 14 feet long and they double it over.
[01:19:10:22 - 01:19:13:12]
They double over four feet of it and they ferrule it.
[01:19:15:03 - 01:19:40:12]
And then they tie a double surgeons knot once they've got the four feet of ferriling done or, you know. And so the whole leader ends up being, you know, and that goes straight to the one piece of 20 and the whole thing's about 10 feet. And the whole time I was like, I don't know why you would want this. I get it maybe a little extra stretch, less knots.
[01:19:41:22 - 01:19:50:22]
It probably makes it stiffer, doesn't it? Well, the ferriling- So it turns over really nice. Transitions nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kind of like a old school braided leader.
[01:19:51:22 - 01:19:52:03]
Exactly.
[01:19:53:07 - 01:20:02:11]
The weird part to that is then you have on a fly, that's the equivalent of having two medium dumbbells in it.
[01:20:03:12 - 01:20:05:23]
Okay. So the whole thing is massively heavy.
[01:20:08:02 - 01:20:11:06]
So the leader part was a little bit of a head scratcher.
[01:20:11:06 - 01:20:12:17]
The part that does make sense
[01:20:13:18 - 01:20:27:16]
is to get anything built boat wise in Australia. They need to, they have a surveying process. So like you start the process of building the hull and then a surveyor needs to come.
[01:20:29:05 - 01:20:49:05]
One part of the process, which is fascinating, is whatever you want the boat to be rated for, that many people actually need to come to the boat. So if it's a thousand pounds, you need to find five people at 200 pounds and they need to stand on the gunwale.
[01:20:50:14 - 01:20:52:06]
And they need to make the boat flip.
[01:20:54:06 - 01:21:03:16]
Which is, so you can imagine all of the boats have super high beams, right? So
[01:21:03:16 - 01:21:23:19]
basically the thought, the biggest thought process behind the leader is that there's no knot from the fly line to the tippet. So when you get a fish, you can reel down on the leader and that ferrule part just goes straight through, which was interesting.
[01:21:25:04 - 01:21:30:11]
I like that in general, I might try that other places because it is really nice not to have to worry about that transition knot.
[01:21:31:22 - 01:21:35:18]
Well, I was even thinking about it for trout fishing. Like why wouldn't you just take a piece of,
[01:21:37:01 - 01:21:42:20]
long piece of three X and ferrule it, tie the knot and have your leader.
[01:21:44:11 - 01:21:47:05]
Yeah, get that 16 inch rainbow in tight.
[01:21:49:10 - 01:21:52:19]
(Laughing)
[01:21:54:22 - 01:22:43:07]
Yeah, and then I guess where I was headed with that is the whole setup is made so that mainly the permit are looking down and they don't want the crabs to jump up at all. They don't want any motion. So obviously if you have a floating line and a leader, it doesn't sink as well, right? And you make a quick strip, the crabs gonna jump up with the line and the leader. So with the intermediate, but what we noticed very quickly is the fish that we were able to find weren't even letting it get down. So like they would see the fly and bum rush it. And sometimes it wasn't even, couldn't even get your line tight.
[01:22:44:07 - 01:22:45:14]
Yeah, it was extremely quick.
[01:22:46:21 - 01:22:57:21]
What would you say like the average depth of these flats you were fishing there were, and then can you compare that to other places that you've fished? Brian, I'll let you.
[01:22:59:03 - 01:23:14:13]
That what's the question? Like how do you compare the flight, the size of the flight? No, no, no, like, I mean, in Australia, like the typical water depth you're fishing in. I mean, is it pretty typical to Belize, Mexico or? I would say it was probably between one and two meters,
[01:23:15:14 - 01:23:27:13]
which would be maybe two and a half to six, seven feet. Probably where we were targeting and saw fish. Mike, would you agree? Yeah, I'd say deep, yeah, four to six feet.
[01:23:28:16 - 01:24:12:16]
So deeper than like your traditional flats. Right, right, right. And I thought the fish were deeper. Like they weren't, I mean, I can think of a few instances where I saw some floating permit, but they're down deep. And when they eat, and Mike, I don't think we've talked about this, you might disagree, but usually I'm so used to Atlantic permit where you're really watching the body language of the fish and you get this long follow and you can kind of tell some signature signs of like when they're eating. These things just seem to cruise and eat like more on the fly. And it kind of blindsides you a little bit. And to Mike's point, they'll attack the fly quick. And so I can think of a number of fish that I missed that definitely ate the fly. I mean, the fly is hammered when you pull it up, but you never even felt a thing.
[01:24:14:04 - 01:24:18:02]
Maybe it's because of where the mouth's located on those Anak. I don't know.
[01:24:19:14 - 01:24:42:18]
And also to add to your question, Jimmy, is like when you think of a traditional flat in like a Belize, you know, more of a pancake flat, but got deep water all around and then shallow water or in Mexico, just long extensive, you know, flats that mostly one to three feet.
[01:24:44:00 - 01:24:55:15]
They're basically fishing shorelines and outside of river drainages where the river has pushed sand out.
[01:24:57:02 - 01:25:07:12]
So not too many traditional flats in the sense of how we look at them, but it's definitely how they describe a fly.
[01:25:09:08 - 01:25:09:13]
Copy.
[01:25:11:05 - 01:25:11:23]
And I- Almost stunning.
[01:25:13:04 - 01:25:24:08]
Stunning, well, I mean the bauxite, right? I mean, that part. I didn't even care if we saw a fish when you're fishing with the red cliffs behind you. It was pretty stunning.
[01:25:26:00 - 01:25:44:05]
To your point, Brian, I think that I 100% agree with you. I would say, I would take it even farther. I mean, with Atlantic Permit, as you were describing, like usually there's a kick of a tail. There's some gill flare once in a while. There's a change of speed.
[01:25:46:08 - 01:25:47:14]
All types of tails.
[01:25:48:23 - 01:25:52:08]
The tail kick is the one usually when you're setting the hook.
[01:25:54:04 - 01:26:09:19]
But I saw an instance where there was nothing. I mean, I watched the fly go in front of the fish and the fish swim by. Two guides were way too close to me, but right next to me.
[01:26:10:22 - 01:26:26:03]
And as I'm stripping in the line, I said, "Did you see that?" And they were like, "Didn't even look." And I'm stripping, and then I'm like, "Oh God, I got it." And then the first thought was like, there was nothing.
[01:26:27:03 - 01:26:32:20]
I mean, it was like, here comes the fly. And then just fish like, "Oh, he ate it." Like, how does that?
[01:26:34:23 - 01:26:45:17]
But it's cool. I mean, the good news is like, they eat. Those fish just eat, and they eat aggressively, or at least they did for us. So if you find fish and have a shot, there's a very good chance you're gonna come tight.
[01:26:45:17 - 01:26:55:16]
exactly. But I do think we saw it in a manner that is not the norm at all, right? Because I think they were surprised by it.
[01:26:56:20 - 01:26:57:01]
Okay.
[01:26:58:15 - 01:27:00:01]
So we should go back. Yep.
[01:27:02:09 - 01:27:06:20]
Exactly. Well, I mean, clearly if you're going that far,
[01:27:08:17 - 01:27:22:12]
there's probably not nearly as much pressure on those fish. Do you think that might have anything to do with it? I think it does, but I would lean more towards the actual fish.
[01:27:23:16 - 01:27:30:06]
Okay. Like, it's different. There's some, I had never fished for the Anak permit.
[01:27:31:14 - 01:27:46:06]
And so for everyone tuning in, right? There's four permit about to be a fifth that people generally talk about. You've got the Atlantic permit, Indo-Pacific permit,
[01:27:47:09 - 01:27:57:09]
the Anak permit, which is what we were after, and then the Africanus, which is really in Oman, Yemen, Saudi Arabia.
[01:28:00:00 - 01:28:11:04]
So part of what the fish that we were fishing for, like there was kind of a hybrid, I felt like, between the Africanus, which is definitely a meaner fish,
[01:28:12:16 - 01:28:17:23]
and the Indo-Pacific. For whatever reason, in Australia,
[01:28:19:06 - 01:28:30:04]
I mean, I've only fished there four times, but the fish are looking down and they generally are much friendlier to eat your fly,
[01:28:31:23 - 01:28:41:11]
for whatever reason. I would say one of the, at times cool, and at times very frustrating,
[01:28:42:16 - 01:28:56:00]
a part of the trip was there's so many species swimming around, and to your point about water depth, it was very hard to distinguish what is what.
[01:28:57:09 - 01:29:02:11]
Even the milkshakes, even the mullet, there was some big mullet I thought I flossed. Didn't understand my thinning.
[01:29:04:09 - 01:29:08:00]
Yeah, and right, as always, as a part of,
[01:29:09:01 - 01:29:21:14]
I mean, some of the best part of those trips is the reflections afterwards. I mean, it's easy to get caught up in the permit fishing because usually it seemed like one,
[01:29:22:15 - 01:29:30:06]
one was being caught in a boat a day, which in permit fishing lifts everyone's spirits. I mean, that's especially when you travel that far.
[01:29:31:14 - 01:29:36:22]
So if you stuck with it, something cool is gonna happen. But then on the other side,
[01:29:37:23 - 01:29:59:01]
the stuff that would just take place just being out there was insanity. So it's like maybe we should, I don't know, in hindsight, it's like it would have been nice to maybe pick a day or two to just fish for it all. Probably would have caught more permit on that day.
[01:30:00:21 - 01:30:12:06]
But we had a pretty wild experience where there was, you know, manor rays. How big do you think those manor rays wingspans were? Maybe 10 feet?
[01:30:13:12 - 01:30:19:18]
I have no idea, but I guess. I was showing my kids the video and they didn't, they were like, that's only three feet wide.
[01:30:20:22 - 01:30:21:15]
No, no chance.
[01:30:24:15 - 01:30:28:03]
Say it was like, yeah, 10 to 15 feet wide. Yeah, and that's not crazy.
[01:30:29:18 - 01:30:34:05]
Yeah, at all. And they were doing, when they eat shrimp, they do
[01:30:34:05 - 01:30:35:13]
in the water.
[01:30:36:21 - 01:30:38:17]
And in this particular instance,
[01:30:39:18 - 01:30:52:16]
we were observing this one just watching do the flips and a school of golden trevally were coming up and tailing on the manor ray's stomach
[01:30:54:12 - 01:31:19:13]
as it was doing its rolls. And I mean, at first it was like, I mean, do we even cast or what? It's like, yeah, put it on his stomach. And so I don't know, waiting for it to roll. It was pretty cool. Did you say a golden trevally? Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Did you get any of those? We did.
[01:31:22:16 - 01:31:29:03]
Couple ones with some really cool spot formations have you fished for those before?
[01:31:30:05 - 01:31:33:15]
No. They have a probiscus mouth.
[01:31:34:17 - 01:31:50:16]
So like once you catch them, you can pull their lip out. Like three or four inches. And that's how they like they'll eat like that. It's kind of wild. No teeth, not like the other trevally species. Kind of soft rubber lips.
[01:31:52:06 - 01:32:05:16]
Cause that led me to ask the question when we were there. And apparently earlier in the season, there was a guy that did just that. He's like, I'd love to catch some permit, but I want to catch
[01:32:05:16 - 01:32:08:07]
they
[01:32:08:07 - 01:32:17:07]
Right? I mean, that's that's why.
[01:32:19:01 - 01:32:20:17]
So what all did you guys target while you were there?
[01:32:21:17 - 01:32:22:11]
Primarily permit.
[01:32:23:13 - 01:32:28:08]
We had a bunch of goldies. I caught a massive cobia, which I'd never caught before,
[01:32:29:11 - 01:32:42:00]
which was kind of lucky. And I never really wanted to see one that big. So when it was following the fly by the boat, I thought it was a shark and whipped it out and a guy almost snagged me. What are you doing? Shark is going to take my rig. He's like, no, it's not.
[01:32:43:07 - 01:33:05:06]
And then I was, I really wanted to catch a tuskey cause I'd saw him when we were in the vessels and they're in this area. One guy on our trip, Jed, got a really nice one. It's just been in my head ever since I was there last time. And I was able to hook on one, but I lost the battle in like six seconds, but it was one of the coolest six seconds I can remember it all fishing. It was a very cool fish.
[01:33:06:20 - 01:33:28:09]
And we saw a couple of blue bastards, but I wasn't really targeting them. Had caught them before. Some big queen fish. I mean, there's a lot, that's what's so fun about it. You're just out there and, you know, with two people in the boat, if the first person on the bow going for permit, the person in the back could just kind of, you know, pull out the G stick or a 12 weight and just throw in anything they see cruising around. It's kind of a fun program.
[01:33:29:15 - 01:33:38:03]
No doubt. It is, right? That's a great point. Cause they're using, we should have said that earlier, they're using trolling motors. So there's no pulling.
[01:33:40:09 - 01:33:49:16]
Yeah, my time. That's deeper water you were talking about. Yeah. Yeah. I was just sitting on the platform when I saw the Tuskegee like straddling it, you know, like a little hillbilly,
[01:33:50:22 - 01:34:05:07]
just enjoying the sun and the view and saw this thing and just kind of flipped. You guys about 30 feet away. And all of a sudden I'm on with this fish. I really wanted it. It was just kind of cool. And you're never out of the game. You're just having fun, looking at everything, moving around and throwing at stuff. Yeah, that's cool.
[01:34:06:08 - 01:34:19:15]
Yeah, we also caught some Mac tuna with land in sight, which was, I mean, perfect size tuna, right? There were, I don't know, 10 to 15 pounds maybe.
[01:34:22:06 - 01:34:31:16]
And, you know, not all of this stuff was seen like, you know, on a daily basis, but throughout someone's like, I think you caught the, Matthew's you caught the only Cobia.
[01:34:33:03 - 01:34:46:18]
She had caught the only Tuskfish, right? So it wasn't like, it's just someone coming back and being like, I didn't see the Mac tuna and the Cobia and the today. But I am known as the Cobia master, so.
[01:34:49:19 - 01:35:05:03]
Did you have, did you catch any bird moon dye? No, I think the only time I went was with you. And what did I catch? I caught that crazy. It was like the only thing I caught, okay. There's a group?
[01:35:06:20 - 01:35:14:10]
Yeah, but some special kind, right? Yeah, there's a lot of couples. Oh, a master, the Cobia and the unidentified special grouper.
[01:35:19:08 - 01:35:27:19]
What about, did you, I didn't even ask you this either. Did you have a 10 weight in your hand or a nine weight most of the trip?
[01:35:28:19 - 01:35:29:14]
I had a 10.
[01:35:31:13 - 01:35:34:07]
It was just a heavier line, heavier flies.
[01:35:36:00 - 01:35:43:18]
Sometimes we had some wind, I'd say more in the first three days and some clouds. And I just felt more comfortable. I think you'd get away with either.
[01:35:45:09 - 01:35:47:15]
I actually never took my nine on the boat.
[01:35:49:02 - 01:35:55:00]
I rigged it up day one and like day two, I still seat on the rack at the lodge and it sat there until breakdown day.
[01:35:56:05 - 01:36:13:21]
Did they have anything that they wanted you to bring? Yeah, maybe you wouldn't consider for another trip. It was essential to the trip rather. Yeah, I mean, the line talk is very interesting
[01:36:15:18 - 01:36:24:12]
because I've never, the only place I've ever used intermediate long tip fly lines for permit is in Australia.
[01:36:26:14 - 01:36:34:17]
You don't use those in the line ever? No, I don't think so. Because I think you want more of a hinge.
[01:36:36:03 - 01:36:50:02]
I see. Yeah, no, you don't use them there. You want, it's like nymphing. You want to leave your, you want as much control as possible. You want to leave your flies in a certain spot. But I'd say that was unique.
[01:36:51:19 - 01:36:54:17]
And essential, like I really think you need it. Yeah, I think you need it. Like I really think you need it.
[01:36:55:19 - 01:37:00:15]
But again, reflections on a trip for what we saw. I know it's not the norm,
[01:37:01:18 - 01:37:16:21]
but I am a little bit perplexed as to why we didn't start using floating lines if they were eating the flies that quickly because you have so much more control over what you're doing.
[01:37:18:08 - 01:37:18:08]
Mm-hmm.
[01:37:19:18 - 01:37:41:22]
And in fact, I got a text from Currier before he left because he was heading to the Wetzles and his text was talking about bailing on their suggestion and just using floating line when I was told him about what we saw, but also said, "You might want to bring both."
[01:37:43:10 - 01:37:50:03]
But also bring a six foot intermediate head for the middle. I mean, if you're going that far.
[01:37:51:05 - 01:37:55:09]
Yeah, if you're going that far, you better take it all. Yeah, I agree.
[01:37:56:12 - 01:38:15:21]
I didn't get, I got one shot in a giant travallie and we had the 12 laid out the whole time. I wouldn't change that though. Like I think the giant travallie that swim around there or you're not going to come back with multiple. But if you catch one, it's going to be, it's probably going to be a beast.
[01:38:17:04 - 01:38:40:19]
Live up to the name. Yeah. And we'd have it stripped out, which is also another fun kind of gong show part of the trip. Right? As you got guy in a back has multiple lines stripped out, ready to fire. And then the guy up front and yeah, we had some good in line management with the motor. I mean, that is a disaster.
[01:38:42:01 - 01:38:47:12]
Yeah, the wet towel was a master stroke. Yeah. That whole back there. Yeah. That was genius.
[01:38:49:15 - 01:38:54:03]
Were you, were you with, it was you and I with the kangaroo?
[01:38:56:01 - 01:39:07:07]
The one that got hit. Yeah. Yeah. I thought, I thought that was, you know, it's like us, you know, if you saw a deer, you know, dead on the road moving it.
[01:39:08:08 - 01:39:28:09]
And so we saw a dead one in the guide went to move it. I don't know why I just, that was a really quick transition to the kangaroo. The first he checked the cat or Joey, remember that? He like reached his hand in the pouch to see if there was a baby. That's what I was going to bring up. That was wild, right? Yeah, it was pretty hardcore.
[01:39:29:21 - 01:39:33:22]
And then when he won it, like then he just casually dragged it off and kind of tossed a little bit.
[01:39:35:13 - 01:39:39:05]
Yeah. I mean, that was a, to check the pouch, I thought was a master stroke.
[01:39:40:12 - 01:39:47:18]
Oh yeah. We do that with possums in Tennessee. Every single one you see, you pull over and see if it's got any in the pouch. Really?
[01:39:49:00 - 01:39:50:04]
No. No, no.
[01:39:52:04 - 01:39:52:10]
(Laughing)
[01:39:55:07 - 01:39:55:16]
So good.
[01:39:56:22 - 01:40:04:13]
That was brilliant. What do you think his plan was if there was a Joey in there? Just like release it or like, was it coming home with us?
[01:40:05:13 - 01:40:06:17]
Yeah. Is it coming in the truck?
[01:40:07:17 - 01:40:18:02]
Yeah. And I was in the back. I probably would have been next to it. The other thing that's the fact that you can order, you know, you can still order those old Land Cruisers there. Like that is... Oh man.
[01:40:19:07 - 01:40:27:17]
Yeah. They had one. I'm like, this can't be that, this can't be, you know, 20 years old or whatever. And they're like, no, it's a year old.
[01:40:29:02 - 01:40:31:22]
But no. Those in the Hilux?
[01:40:32:22 - 01:40:37:09]
Yeah, the Hilux, man. Yeah. We got to figure that out.
[01:40:38:14 - 01:40:40:20]
What is that? A 2.3 diesel, right?
[01:40:42:02 - 01:40:47:21]
Yeah. That four cylinder? Yeah. Little thing? Yeah. But bulletproof. Does it all?
[01:40:49:14 - 01:41:16:19]
Well, what else am I missing, Matthew? Is there anything else that covered the, you know, the birds, the dingoes? I would give a shout out to the lodge itself. I think they've done a nice job. I mean, they basically acquired a house in Weepa and have set it up to host guests. And the gal that was cooking for us, Tegan, was phenomenal. And just the vibe between the guides and the crew at the lodge,
[01:41:17:20 - 01:41:24:09]
you didn't feel like you were invading their space at all. You just felt like you were hanging out with friends. You actually wanted them to hang out. You wanted them at dinner every night.
[01:41:25:09 - 01:41:30:14]
Yeah, it was just great. And that goes a long way. It means more than accommodations, but the accommodations were great.
[01:41:31:16 - 01:41:46:15]
Yeah, I agree. I would say it's very nice to go that far and be in a foreign spot, but also be part of the family, so to speak, in a way, even though you're only part of the family for a week.
[01:41:46:15 - 01:41:48:02]
Sad to leave.
[01:41:49:02 - 01:41:49:12]
Yeah. We'll go back.
[01:41:50:18 - 01:41:53:15]
Oh, I get it. That's cool. We got Jimmy. Jimmy taking a trip over that way.
[01:41:54:18 - 01:41:56:09]
Man, I can't wait. Where we going?
[01:41:58:02 - 01:41:58:13]
I'll go back.
[01:42:01:04 - 01:42:04:05]
So, no, when would be the next time West Bank's planning on going back?
[01:42:06:09 - 01:42:26:14]
The next time going back is next September 29th. Okay, so that's like an end of summer, beginning of fall kind of time. Yeah. And that's probably the best time to be there. It is one of the best times to be there, I think. It's their spring. Just to get it. Right, yeah. So it'd be swapped with ours, yeah.
[01:42:27:19 - 01:42:33:23]
But they start those trips pretty early, right? And I'm forgetting this part, but it's all...
[01:42:35:12 - 01:42:37:06]
April to October for the Cape.
[01:42:38:12 - 01:42:51:18]
Yep, and no rainy season, different weather patterns. That's the other crazy thing, right? I mean, it was hot. It was, but it didn't, to be honest, it didn't feel as like oppressively humid, tropical hot.
[01:42:53:00 - 01:43:36:19]
The first day we walked back from the restaurant to the lodge, that was hot. I don't know, the breeze felt a little drier than like Mexico or places in the Caribbean. Yeah, hot for spring, right? I mean... No doubt, I can't imagine what it's like. But I think just driving over the landmass to the Great Barrier Reef side though, isn't that like a completely different climate? Like they don't start those trips until later on. I don't know, it's fascinating. I mean, you're closer to Papua New Guinea than you are to any recognizable city in Australia. And I think, yeah.
[01:43:38:00 - 01:43:42:18]
You're up there and we covered a lot of ground. Like even then when we went North, we got pretty far North.
[01:43:44:07 - 01:43:51:15]
Yeah, and they do a mothership above where we are as well. So almost at the tip of Cape York, even closer.
[01:43:53:00 - 01:44:02:21]
Yeah, it's hard to ask this question, but we should probably, as we start this new endeavor, we should ask the question every time because I do think it's fair.
[01:44:04:12 - 01:44:07:00]
Like if you had to put a warning label on the trip,
[01:44:08:06 - 01:44:12:00]
Brian, what would you say? That's a hard one, a warning label.
[01:44:13:14 - 01:44:19:03]
Or just something that you wish you had known. I don't think it changes whether you go or not.
[01:44:20:15 - 01:44:35:04]
I can't think, I mean, there was nothing that shaped me. It was all very comfortable. The guys are great, it's Australia. What would yours be? Mike, give me more time to think a lot. I would say overall, like I'm very critical of trips.
[01:44:36:13 - 01:44:53:01]
I'd say it's a home run in all capacities. I was a little caught off guard by the amount of time it took on some of the runs. I was like, that's a, because in,
[01:44:54:05 - 01:44:56:12]
not that it took away from any of the fishing time.
[01:44:57:23 - 01:45:05:10]
Well, I guess in a sense, it would if it was that much closer, which I guess is the idea for the mother ships.
[01:45:07:14 - 01:45:15:08]
But that's a good, I mean, some of those runs we did, I asked the question, like how far do we just run? It was like, well, 30 miles.
[01:45:16:21 - 01:45:35:02]
And that's a pretty good one, but I'm with you, man. Like I haven't, the fishing seemed to be, I had a very similar feeling to the last time we were over there at the West Hills, which is another offering further west that they do.
[01:45:36:11 - 01:45:46:08]
More remote, I would say, in the sense that you're not allowed in the area without travel permission. So you are not gonna see anyone.
[01:45:48:23 - 01:46:00:18]
But the same feeling was like, we didn't have, we didn't hit that, not like the fishing went off, but it was just such a good, just such an amazing overall experience, but.
[01:46:01:21 - 01:46:04:12]
Yeah, I got something now.
[01:46:06:02 - 01:46:25:11]
And I remember this from the West Hills, but I've forgotten, but you're not getting out of the boat much at all. And sometimes you're like, well, can I just go walk this while you're fishing him and just see what I see? And it's absolutely not. It's all because of the crocodiles. And I, having seen them, I'm glad they don't let you out of the boat.
[01:46:26:18 - 01:46:42:02]
But you see these beach flats and you just wanna like, oh, if I could just be on foot and walk this and look around, it'd be amazing. And that's, I always forget that. And that's probably something when you see the pictures or you look the place up, you're in the boat most of the time for a reason.
[01:46:43:12 - 01:46:46:08]
Say less, I'll be in the boat, no problem.
[01:46:49:10 - 01:46:55:10]
Yeah, and just when you thought like you would be safe, it'd be like, look at that one.
[01:46:57:19 - 01:47:02:09]
And the fact that they bury themselves at times in the sand. Yes, that's a terrifying.
[01:47:04:04 - 01:47:12:05]
Does it be like a 10 foot float or like no problem, right? You can find these little fish, but if they're buried in the sand, just waiting for you to,
[01:47:13:13 - 01:47:26:17]
while you're trying to scan the water for a target, I don't know, yeah, delete you. Yeah, the lack of swimming, right? You definitely wanted to swim at times, but yeah. Remember when David was on the boat?
[01:47:27:18 - 01:47:31:23]
And I mean, someone on that boat should have yelled croc. (Laughing)
[01:47:36:07 - 01:48:05:19]
Or jumped back in. That would have thought. Well, it was also pretty, I feel very fortunate to get to travel with some of the same people sometimes and for certain trips. And there's always some sort of banter with historical precedents. And one thing that came up quite often was the bag. It's much like the raincoat in the sense, are you ever gonna find the right one?
[01:48:07:18 - 01:48:11:22]
And so there's a decent amount of banter going on.
[01:48:13:16 - 01:48:22:17]
Yeah, so that leads me, Jimmy, if you're gonna travel, what bag are you taking? Right, like that's one that I haven't found the answer to.
[01:48:24:03 - 01:48:26:15]
I love waterproof bags, but hate the zippers.
[01:48:28:19 - 01:48:48:01]
The organization on the inside's all different for us. I guess that's depending on where you're going to and how much you're taking. But I don't have an answer for that one. I guess my answer is I've got a-- Australia. Say what? What if you're gonna hop on this trip? What bag is your-- Your boat bag?
[01:48:49:04 - 01:48:55:02]
Your boat, no, just your, what would you pack in? What one bag would I take? Yeah.
[01:48:56:12 - 01:49:02:10]
Like my main bag or one for the boat? I love it, it's going deep.
[01:49:03:19 - 01:49:05:18]
I mean, there's so much to consider.
[01:49:06:21 - 01:49:08:22]
Well, how about we boil it down to roll top,
[01:49:10:02 - 01:49:11:19]
waterproof, non-waterproof?
[01:49:14:12 - 01:49:18:07]
I'm always-- Kicker is wheels or no wheels, sorry.
[01:49:20:19 - 01:49:29:22]
Having the wheels is nice, transporting it to and from, but at the same time, less durable, extra weight.
[01:49:31:03 - 01:49:34:19]
Like a big giant duffel bag, you can really load that thing to the gills.
[01:49:36:10 - 01:49:41:12]
So if I've got a roll top waterproof bag, that's probably gonna be my go-to.
[01:49:43:07 - 01:50:50:00]
And Matthews, you brought the Patagonia 100L, right? Waterproof? Yeah, I love that. Because I fit, you were amazed I brought the intruder boots, which I never used, so that was a total waste of space. And there was plenty of space left over, and it doesn't look like a big bag. But that, if I can plug that Oort Leap, and I know you know the bag I'm talking about, that has wheels, it's waterproof duffel, but the handle is just sewn in on the end, so there's not going in and out, so you don't lose that space, and it's super light. I love that thing. It's a deal breaker though, not having the extended handle for me. I just NRS strap it, so I get a little dolly on top of that. You know, how'd you feel walking through the long walks in the airport, LA, or like you had to walk, I mean, I saw you getting a little twitchy with the-- Yeah, I just felt like a stud, like I got something heavy, I'm doing something important, look at that guy, he's going out there. Well, I gotta say, there was three of the new fish pond, which that's where I'm at currently,
[01:50:51:04 - 01:50:55:07]
the Thunderhead duffel, not waterproof, but water resistant,
[01:50:57:06 - 01:51:25:05]
can fit any rod holder that's set for a nine foot four piece rod, so like the Orvis carry all, or like the jackalope, you can just put it right in the bottom. Anything wet that you have, you can zip in to the whole bottom, and then close it, zip it in the middle, and then the top, separate packing. It's a kickstand, I mean,
[01:51:27:01 - 01:51:33:20]
it has its own kickstand, always upright, good size, extended handle, it's a winner.
[01:51:36:06 - 01:51:43:04]
I won't be surprised if, what's that? I was impressed. Yeah, you're thinking about it.
[01:51:44:04 - 01:51:50:01]
I don't know, there was already three of them on there, they all look the same, I just wanna kick the kickstand out when I see it.
[01:51:53:04 - 01:52:17:18]
You have made a kickstand. Yeah, not well, I mean, not to take it any further, but I will, the kickstand on the bottom, above the kickstand, is a handle, a plastic handle that is not obtrusive because the kickstands are there, two kickstands, and then, so when you need to move the bag in this capacity long wise,
[01:52:19:02 - 01:52:31:13]
you have a molded handle on the bottom, which I thought was, I don't know, we'll see. We'll be discussing this again at some point. How old was, how old is Mixtor's bag, or Jed's bag?
[01:52:32:13 - 01:52:35:17]
The, isn't that the one he thinks is a knockoff?
[01:52:37:12 - 01:52:47:17]
Oh, he doesn't think it's real. He doesn't think it's real, he thinks he got a knockoff. Knockoff, Patagonia, Rolling Duffle, the 100 liter.
[01:52:48:23 - 01:52:50:04]
Yeah, the squeaky wheel.
[01:52:51:10 - 01:52:52:22]
That was getting really loud.
[01:52:54:03 - 01:52:54:16]
That was funny.
[01:52:55:23 - 01:53:01:22]
It's like he's oblivious to it, or he's so used to it, but walking through the airport, you just see heads turning everywhere, looking at it.
[01:53:05:10 - 01:53:11:01]
I think he does, though, because that was way worse, and I think he's trying to tune it out a little bit.
[01:53:12:05 - 01:53:13:14]
At that point.
[01:53:13:14 - 01:53:17:05]
(Music)
[01:53:17:05 - 01:55:22:10]