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Find the answers to all those questions you were too embarrassed to ask in Sunday School. Welcome to Weird Stuff in the Bible, where we explore scripture passages that are bizarre, perplexing or just plain weird. Hosted by Luke Taylor.
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The Underworld Realm: Revelation and the Sea
Revelation 21
Introduction
You can breathe huge sigh of relief once you get to Revelation 21. Because not only are you almost done reading the whole Bible, but you’re also past all the bad stuff. The devil, the antichrist and false prophet have been taken care of. Judgement day is over. Sin and the corrupted world are wadded up and thrown away.
And Revelation 21 and 22 speak of eternity: the place we will spend the rest of our existence once this current world is done.
Revelation 21:1 says
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
Holllld up. The sea was no more? Like, the oceans and rivers are gone? Does that mean there will be no swimming, no visits to the beach, and no more Avatar sequels in the eternal state?
Now, before you freak out, let me just say up front: this is code language. This is what Revelation does often: it uses symbols to speak of a deeper reality. It’s not saying there’s no oceans or no dolphins or no Hawaii in the new heavens and new earth. It’s using biblical code words to speak of something else.
In fact, if you’ve looked into it, you’ve probably heard it explained this way: that the sea is a word that represents chaos, and so by saying there was no more sea, that’s actually the Bible saying that there was no more chaos.
And that’s technically not wrong…but there’s actually something much deeper going on here beneath the surface. And by the end of today’s episode, you’ll know all about it.
I find Revelation 21:1 to be weird, and I’d like to explore why it’s in the Bible.
But to start, turn to Revelation 5, and let’s get weird.
[theme music]
(Continued)
Welcome to Weird Stuff in the Bible, where we explore scripture passages that are bizarre, perplexing or just plain weird. This is Luke Taylor, and today we’re going to be talking about why there is no sea in the new heavens and the new earth.
By the way, shout-out to Megan Medick who recently shared an interview with me on her podcast Uncommon Sense. She grills me about hell. I had a good time. If you’d like to hear it, I’ll link to that in the show notes of this episode.
And another shout out to a longtime listener and official weirdo named Daniel, who emailed me a few months ago and said this:
In reflecting on your podcast episode that released today, you didn’t spend much time on the part of Revelation 21:1 where it says “there was no more sea.” A study Bible I own says this refers to the source of earthly rebellion, chaos, and danger - the sea from which the beast emerged (Rev. 13:1 and Dan. 7:3), not physical bodies of water. Is it true that the term sea in the Bible can refer to the cosmos, much like beasts of the field can refer to spiritual authorities and forces of darkness? If so, I wonder how this is different from the first heaven that passed away.
Daniel was spot-on with that email. He was picking up on the fact that this is one of those biblical code words just like “beasts of the field.” Today we’re going to trace this term “sea” through the Book of Revelation to understand what it fully means so that it will make sense to us by the time we get to chapter 21.
God Slays the Chaos Dragon
But first, I want to explain why this sea is associated with chaos. I will briefly recap what I unpacked last week on the podcast. If you didn’t hear last week’s episode, if you’re new, that’s A-OK. You don’t have to hear last week’s episode to understand this one. But if you’d like more background once this is done, it’s there for you to go check out.
So when God created the universe, He had all the material that He used to create all the stuff in the world and even in the galaxy and beyond. This material was called the “waters,” and this stuff was without form. God started bringing form to it; God started separating light from darkness and one day from another and land from oceans and brought order out of the sea of chaos. The separating was creating boundaries. Key word: “boundaries.” And as God creates these things, the chaos keeps getting crammed down lower and lower.
God created three tiers of our physical realm: the land, the sky, and the seas. God also created three tiers of the spiritual realm: heaven, earth, and the underworld. And we can see how these three tiers correspond to each other: Heaven corresponds to the skies, which are also called “the heavens” in the Bible. The Earthly realm corresponds to the land, which is also called Earth. And the Underworld realm corresponds to the Seas, because this is where all of the leftover chaos ended up. It was pushed down into the Underworld. And so this is why the Underworld in the Bible is often spoken of in water-related terms and also as a place of disorder. It’s the containment of the remaining chaos.
That’s what we covered last week. And it shouldn’t surprise us that God creates so many things in threes. God is a Triune being- Father, Son and Spirit. God created us as triune beings, with spirit, soul and body. So no wonder God created a three-part world and three-part spiritual realm.
Before we get into revelation, I just want to point out that the Bible sometimes speaks of God’s creation of the world as when God slayed the chaos dragon. Or potentially more than one. This is a recurring motif in Scripture. Sometimes the chaos dragon is called Rahab, sometimes Leviathan. Here’s an example:
Psalm 74:12-17
12 Yet God my King is from of old,
working salvation in the midst of the earth.
13 You divided the sea by your might;
you broke the heads of the sea monsters on the waters.
14 You crushed the heads of Leviathan;
you gave him as food for the creatures of the wilderness.
15 You split open springs and brooks;
you dried up ever-flowing streams.
16 Yours is the day, yours also the night;
you have established the heavenly lights and the sun.
17 You have fixed all the boundaries of the earth;
you have made summer and winter.
So notice that it referred to boundary-setting as dividing the sea. And as it discussed God setting borders and settling the chaos, it threw in this verse about how God defeated sea monsters—it was plural—and one was a multi-headed being named Leviathan.
So is this just poetic language? Was there a physical creature that God killed in the primordial world? If so, why did God create it if He was going to immediately kill it? Was there a spiritual creature who opposed God’s desire to bring order out of the seas of chaos? These are open questions, as far as I’m concerned. Most Christians take this as poetic language, and it’s so vague and mysterious, I have no problem with someone doing that. However, I am not most Christians; I have a theory on this that I’ll share in a few weeks. For now, I just want to establish that this is chaos dragon motif relating to God’s creation is a recurring theme of Scripture.
Job 26:12-13
12 By his power he stilled the sea;
by his understanding he shattered Rahab.
13 By his wind the heavens were made fair;
his hand pierced the fleeing serpent.
So now it’s called Rahab. Is this another name for Leviathan? Another monster entirely? I haven’t found the answer yet, but I am confident that at the right time, the Lord will lead me to it.
Psalm 89—which we just looked at a few episodes ago—verses 9 and 10
9 You rule the raging of the sea;
when its waves rise, you still them.
10 You crushed Rahab like a carcass;
you scattered your enemies with your mighty arm.
And one more: Isaiah 51:9-10
9 Awake, awake, put on strength,
O arm of the Lord;
awake, as in days of old,
the generations of long ago.
Was it not you who cut Rahab in pieces,
who pierced the dragon?
10 Was it not you who dried up the sea,
the waters of the great deep…
So you get the idea. The sea, the dragon, and God defeating it as He created the world and set its boundaries. There’s more I could take us to on Leviathan, but like I said earlier, I’ll wait a couple weeks on that.
And one more thing from last week’s lesson: the sea in Genesis 1 is never totally destroyed. All of the leftover chaos was gathered to one place. Which I believe corresponds to the Underworld realm, called the Seas in Genesis 1 and also known as Sheol in the Scriptures. All of this is background to what I’d like to discuss today, as we now look at the Sea in Revelation.
The Three Realms of Revelation
Most of Revelation—specifically chapters 4 through 19—are talking about a period that is often called the Tribulation, an apocalyptic end-of-days scenario which is humanity’s last chance to get saved before Jesus returns. I know not everybody reads Revelation that way—some read it as describing the things we’re experiencing right now—and I’m not here to argue about that today. I am not here to necessarily challenge anyone’s eschatology. You can take what I share today and see how you fit it into your own system.
I used to look at Revelation as a story of heaven and earth. You’ll see something happen in heaven, but then it corresponds to something happening down on the earth. A trumpet is blown in heaven, and some kind of judgment is unleashed upon the earth.
But this most recent time I was looking through it, I noticed that three places are constantly mentioned in tandem throughout this book; the heaven, the earth, and the sea.
Revelation 10:6
and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, that there would be no more delay,
Revelation 12:12
Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea…
Revelation 14:7
And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”
So I’m just pointing out that we see this repetition of heaven, earth, and sea. Now, Revelation—written by the apostle John—is a heavily symbolic book. For example, a very common word in Revelation is the word “star.” Sometimes the word “stars” refers to angels. Sometimes the word “stars” refers to stars. You have to kind of judge the context to figure out what it means. It’s usually pretty obvious, in my opinion.
Sometimes Revelation speaks of the seas and I believe it means literal sea waters, such as when the seas are turned to blood. Other times, I believe the word “seas” is referring to the Underworld realm. The word “sea” is the word Thalassa in the Greek. It’s used 22 times in the Book of Revelation. We’ll go through some of those today—the ones that I believe speak of the Underworld.
Let’s start with the throne room scene in chapters 4 and 5. These heavenly beings are dancing around praising the Lord, and it says this in
Chapter 5, verse 13
13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying,
“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!”
All the creatures. Now, is this referring to the physical realm or the spiritual realm? Is this referring to the animals who fly in the sky like birds and the animals who swim in the sea like whales and sharks?
I don’t think so. If you listened to last week’s episode, I spoke about how God when God created the three realms, He also filled those realms with spiritual beings. There are heavenly spirits, earthly spirits, and underworld spirits. And those are the spirits who praise the Lord right here.
Now if your question is, “Luke, why would demonic or evil spirits praise the Lord,” let me just point out that (1) the Bible right here says “every creature.” That’s not me saying that; that’s what the Bible says. And (2) in Scripture, all beings must acknowledge that God is on the throne, whether they’re loyal to Him or not. The Book of James says even the demons know who God is and tremble. Philippians says every knee will bow, whether they’re loyal to God or not. So even spiritual beings- human or otherwise- in heaven or hell- have to acknowledge Him.
And that’s what Revelation 5:13 has to be referring to: spiritual beings. Unless you want to say that the butterflies and the storks and the jellyfish are all breaking out in song. But I don’t think the Book of Revelation is describing a Disney princess movie. These are spiritual beings. And this third group is under the earth and in the sea.
Let’s look at another place; there’s a very interesting angel who comes up in Revelation 10.
It says
Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven, wrapped in a cloud, with a rainbow over his head, and his face was like the sun, and his legs like pillars of fire. 2 He had a little scroll open in his hand. And he set his right foot on the sea, and his left foot on the land,
So much symbolism going on here. A foot on the land and a foot on the sea. I taught a Sunday School class on Revelation once about a decade ago, and I was like, “What did I say about this guy?” I gotta admit, I had to look back at my notes on this chapter. And I just took it as saying that this angel had authority over the whole earth.
Here’s another way to understand these words though: that this angel was at the barrier between two realms: the earthly realm and the underworld realm. It says that he unleashes the seven thunders on the world. What are the seven thunders? We don’t know. John was instructed not to tell us. It’s a mystery of the end times that won’t be revealed until it happens. But let’s look at
Verses 5 through 7
5 And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven 6 and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, that there would be no more delay, 7 but that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God would be fulfilled, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.
So whatever takes place here is something really mysterious. I couldn’t even begin to speculate on what it means. But I think it makes more sense to take this chapter spiritually than literally; so when it speaks of heaven, earth and sea, I think it’s speaking of the three realms. This angel is straddling the earthly realm and the underworld realm. Perhaps he is some kind of gatekeeper.
The Antichrist Emerges
Here’s something we see in chapter 13: the appearance of the Antichrist. Notice where it says he comes from:
Revelation 13:1
And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads.
So the beast- the antichrist- comes out of the sea. Now, this can be understood a few different ways. I’ve often heard it said that the “sea” right here is the Gentiles. And there are some good reasons to think that; I’m not saying it’s wrong. I do believe the Antichrist will be a gentile, and it could be what is meant by this. Later it says about the False Prophet
In Revelation 13:11
Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth.
And I’ve heard it said that this means the False Prophet comes from the Jews. The the Jews are the earth and the Gentiles are the sea. Again, not saying that’s wrong. But here’s another way to understand that: that the spirit of the Antichrist is an Underworld realm spirit, and that the spirit of the False Prophet is an earthly realm spirit.
Because notice that the beast in Revelation 13:1—which represents the Antichrist and his empire—has multiple heads. Remember what we read earlier about Leviathan, the chaos monster of the sea of the Underworld:
Psalm 74:14
You crushed the heads of Leviathan;
A multi-headed sea monster. The chaos dragon of the sea. Could this entity be the Antichrist? Well, how can the Antichrist be a creature of the Underworld if it’s a human being? I’m going to explore that question in a couple of weeks. There’s a very clear answer to it, but it would just take a little too much time to unpack today.
Next Time
So that’s in two weeks- let me give you a short teaser right now for next week. I’m not done with today’s lesson just yet, but I want to mention this now: I see some assert that the chaos dragon (Leviathan) is Satan. That this is another name or identity of the devil.
Is it Satan? No. Satan is clearly stated to be an earthly realm spirit in your Bible. But the antichrist spirit emerges from the Underworld. So next time I’d like to explain the devil’s domain and his limitations, and we’ll be looking at the curse put on the serpent in Genesis 3. The episode after that, we’ll come back to this idea of the Antichrist as an Underworld spirit.
Make sure you’re subscribed so you can get that episode!
The Sea Gave Up the Dead
Let’s look at two more passages today of the sea in Revelation.
One of them comes up at the end of the book, after Jesus comes back, after the antichrist and false prophet have been taken care of, and after the final rebellion is put down. There’s this moment often called the Final Judgment, or the Great White Throne Judgment, where the enemies of God are called up for eternal sentencing in the Lake of Fire.
The Lake of Fire is not hell. The Lake of Fire is something else; those who are in hell are brought up, sentenced, and then consigned to the Lake of Fire for all eternity. So to get some cosmic geography under our belt: the Underworld is a realm with multiple compartments. Hell is one of those compartments. The whole Underworld is not hell; hell is just a place in the Underworld realm. Hell is where sinners go when they die, until the Final Judgment in Revelation 20, at which point the contents of hell are dumped into the Lake of Fire.
Revelation 20:13-15 say
13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
I know talking about hell and eternal judgment is a heavy subject. If you’re listening and you’re like: why does God make a place like hell? Again, check out my conversation with Megan Medick of Uncommon Sense, I link to it in the show notes.
Verse 13 was a very interesting verse. Let me read it again. It’s speaking of all the people who were dead and in the Underworld, in hell, and brought back up for judgment. Let me read the verse again:
And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
So what does it mean that the sea gave up the dead who were in it? This is another one of those verses that was always really hard to understand for me. So one of the commentaries I remember looking at years ago said that this means that the bodies lost at sea are the bodies of people who didn’t get buried, and that death and hades referred to the bodies that did get buried. I don’t think that’s right, but for years, I just never really found a better explanation.
But now it’s so clear to me: the sea is the Underworld. Because the Great White Throne Judgment is just for sinners; believers have a different judgment called the Judgment Seat of Christ. There is only one pronouncement for those at the Great White Throne Judgment, and that is “guilty.” So it pertains to all of those who are in hell in the Underworld, AKA the sea. And then the phrase “death and hades” probably pertain to some of these specific compartments within the sea, and there’s some other stuff going on with that phrase as well. I’ll expand on that more in an upcoming episode.
No More Sea
As we wrap up, let’s return to the question which opened the episode. And it comes immediately after the verses I just read. Right after the Final Judgment, here’s what comes next:
Revelation 21:1
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
The sea was no more. I have heard this addressed many times saying that the sea here simply refers to chaos, and so it’s saying that once the devil and antichrist and sinners have been taken care of, there will be no more chaos, and so that’s why there’s no more sea.
And that’s part of the answer, but it’s not the full answer. I’ve never heard a Bible teacher connect the “sea” of Revelation 21:1 to the “sea” that is mentioned just three verses earlier in Revelation 20:13. The sea in Revelation 20:13 is clearly the Underworld. And that’s what it means in Revelation 21:1 as well.
All through the book of Revelation, you keep seeing these three realms mentioned in tandem: the heaven, the earth, the sea. The heaven, the earth, the sea.
But once you turn to the eternal state, once evil has been taken care of, Revelation 21:1 tells us about a new heavens—a new earth—but there is not a new sea. The Underworld won’t be necessary anymore. It won’t be a part of God’s new creation.
II Peter 3 tells us about how this current world will be wiped away by fire.
II Peter 3:13 says
But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
And that’s what Revelation 21:1 describes. A new heaven, a new earth—but no more sea. We’ll have a heavenly realm and an earthly realm, but no more underworld realm.
No more evil spirits. No more chaos. No more disorder. No need for an Underworld to contain all that. And that’s what Revelation 21 is saying when it says the sea is no more.
Now some might say: wait Luke, are you teaching annihilationism? What about all those people in the Lake of Fire? God can put the Lake of Fire wherever He wants. It doesn’t need to be in the Underworld realm. He can put it in some pocket dimension somewhere and close it up and it’ll be totally forgotten about. God doesn’t need an Underworld for that. And the new heavens and new earth that we live in for all eternity doesn’t need a hell under our feet inside the earth. We’ll live in a place where righteousness dwells.
The Bible is not weird. WE are weird, because we don’t know about how the Underworld realm can be called the Sea. But now we do. Thanks for listening, God bless you for sticking around until the end, and we’ll see you next time on Weird Stuff in the Bible.