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Art of Spousing is for marriages that what to move from being mundane to becoming masterpiece relationships. Hosts James and Lisa Duvall share truths and lessons learned from their 30 years of marriage and over a decade of teaching, coaching, and speaking on marriage.
James: [00:00:00] Hey friends. Welcome back to the art espousing. It feels great to say that again. It's been, well a minute, maybe even a long minute since our last episode, and so we really missed you guys. But honestly, the break has given us space to recalibrate for this next season.
Lisa: Yeah, space is good. So new year, great time to relaunch a new season.
So new year, new grace. New opportunities and new mindsets. Mindset and marriage shapes everything in our relationship, but often we find that it's overlooked in our own marriage and in the marriage of couples we work with. So today we're gonna talk about how to have a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset.
James: Yeah. We're gonna share some stories, some tools, and give you some practical ways to step into this new year with purpose, unity, and the mindset that helps your marriage become everything God intends it to be. But before we go any further, we want to take a minute. To tell [00:01:00] you about something we're really excited about that we're starting this year.
The collective is officially kicking off this month, and you can join us as a founding member. This is something we've been dreaming about for a while, a space where couples can consistently grow all year long with intentional tools and community.
Lisa: Yeah, so a little bit more about it. The collective is brand new online community designed to help couples build a healthy marriage and a rhythm throughout the year. We have monthly calls, practical resources, conversation guides, date, night ideas. We all could use more of that. That's true. And a supportive community of couples who want to grow.
Just like you wanna grow in your marriage. So join us now and save forever. That's right, because we're launching right now, anyone who joins us this month is a founding member, which means you will lock in a special introductory pricing that will not be offered again and will last a lifetime of investment.
James: we genuinely believe couples grow best when they grow consistently, and the collective is our way of walking with you every step of the way.
Lisa: If [00:02:00] you wanna jump in and join us as a founding member, you can get all the details@aoscollective.com. That's aos collective.com. We'd love to see you there. Okay, so let's get started with this simple idea. How you think determines how you relate. Isn't that so true? True. If your mindset toward your spouse is small, negative, and rigid, your relationship will feel small, negative, and rigid. You probably have heard us say this before, but you gravitate towards what you contemplate, so you will actually find what you're looking for.
James: Yeah. Recently I heard one of my pastors use a story in a sermon, and honestly it's a super clear picture of mindset. It's about two birds, a vulture and a hummingbird.
What's wild is that these two birds can fly over the exact same landscape. They're looking at the exact same environment, but they come back with completely different experiences. So for the vulture, it spends its entire flight scanning the ground. It's looking for dead things.
[00:03:00] Anything decaying, anything rotting, and that's its whole job. Find what's dead, and it always finds what it's looking for. Somehow the vulture tracks down the things that are lifeless and broken, because that's what its eyes are trained to look for. Now in contrast with that, you have the hummingbird and the hummingbird flies around, but it's not looking for death, it's actually looking for nectar, and it's looking for life, for sweetness, for anything that brings nourishment.
And guess what? It also finds what it's looking for. Two birds, same sky, same terrain, different outcomes simply because they're looking for different things. Here's a connection. You and your spouse can walk through the same situation, the same season, the same stress, but what you notice depends entirely on your mindset.
If you go through your marriage like a vulture, always scanning for what's wrong, what's broken, what frustrates you, what your spouse forgot, what they didn't do, you're gonna find it. Every [00:04:00] single time, there will always be something decaying if that's all you're searching for. But if you choose to be like the hummingbird, if you intentionally look for life growth, effort for kindness, moments of beauty, well you're gonna find that too.
So the real question is, what are you looking for in your marriage? Because you will always find what you're looking for and if you believe something can't grow you stop giving it the opportunity
Lisa: Yeah. Unfortunately, I think I have a tendency to be a vulture mindset.
I don't know if that's natural to all of us, but I have to really focus on being a hummingbird. That's why this mindset conversation is so important because whether you're acting like a vulture. Or a humming bird in your marriage. And sometimes seasons cause us to be one or the other. You are shaping the emotional and spiritual atmosphere of your home every single day.
And here's the thing, most couples don't wake up and decide, you know what? I wanna choose to be like a vulture and look for dead rotting decay things. That's true. It just happens when you're tired or [00:05:00] overwhelmed or you're caring. Unspoken frustrations, or it's just a season, but the season grows into many seasons and grows into years, and it just really sneaks up on us.
But the hummingbird mindset, looking for what's life giving, looking for what's growing, what God is doing, that's a mindset that sees areas that need to be addressed. They're not blind to them, right, but they see them for an opportunity of growth. Or they see a problem to solve, not attention to manage.
Yeah, this mindset takes intentionality. Just like I mentioned, I may tend to lean toward the negative, but it's a choice. And the more you choose it, the more natural it becomes.
James: That's true. And the choice really sets the stage for everything else we're gonna talk about today. Because the question is, do I really believe our marriage can grow?
As you enter into this new year, do you really believe that your marriage can be more than it is today, that it can grow? If the answer is no, you'll live with a fixed mindset. But if the answer is yes, even the hesitant yes. Then you've opened the door for God to shape and mature you [00:06:00] as a couple.
Lisa: That's right.
We have witnessed too many times how fixed mindsets actually trap couples, and they have trapped us at times. Yep. And on the flip side, how a growth mindset actually transforms couples, because once you understand the difference, you can start recognizing the pattern and then you begin shaping your marriage sometimes without even realizing it.
James: Yeah. So let's start by defining what we mean by a fixed and the growth mindset in marriage.
So a fixed mindset says, this is who I am. You need to take it or leave it. Lisa, my spouse should just deal with you should just deal with it. Right?
Lisa: My emotions are just outta control. That's true. And you just need to deal
James: That's just who I am. We'll always fight about the same thing. This is just the way things are. It's basically putting the lid.
On your marriage. It kind of reminds me of that experiment I heard about when I was a kid, about the fleas in the jar. Have you heard this? I love it. Yeah. That scientists, they put a bunch of fleas in the jar and screw the lid on top,
Lisa: thinks of this
James: I don't know. At first the fleas kept jumping and hitting the lid over and over, [00:07:00] eventually they adjusted and only jumped high enough Dev void hitting the lid. Then the scientists removed the lid, and guess what happened? The fleas never jumped any higher. Even though the lid was gone, they lived with a limitation like it was still there, and they had merely accepted a ceiling that no longer existed. And I think a lot of marriages at least actually operate the same way. Somewhere along the line, maybe because of past conflict, disappointment or patterns may be broken.
Trust. They stop trying to grow. They stop trying to communicate differently. Maybe they stop believing their spouse can change and their marriage can actually change as well. So you hit the lid enough times and you start saying, why bother jumping any higher? But here's the truth, growth is always possible.
Change is always possible and healing is always possible. But if your mindset still believes the lid is there, you'll never rise above it.
Lisa: That is such a powerful picture. And honestly, I think a lot of us can relate to those fleas more than we want to admit.[00:08:00]
Not to necessarily the jumping part, however, I do have limitations there. But the way we learn to live with limitations that were never meant to define us because in marriage, those lids usually come from real experiences, like you mentioned, James, a season of conflict that we're not able to press through and learn from a hurtful comment, maybe a pattern that.
Never seems to change and we keep finding even our spouse or I've even found myself falling back into the same pattern or responding the same way that actually contributes to us feeling stuck or hitting the lid. Maybe a prayer that's felt unanswered.
James: Yep.
Lisa: Whatever the situation is. Over time, you just stop jumping, you stop trying new approaches.
You stop believing your spouse is gonna grow or that you can even grow or change even when they actually are growing and changing or even when I am actually growing and changing. Basically we can also stop believing the Holy Spirit can actually mature us as individuals or mature our spouse. But when the lid comes off, when healing happens or our [00:09:00] communication improves, or God softens something in me or softens something in you, right? Softens something in your spouse. We don't always adjust our mindset to match the new reality.
Correct? Sometimes a marriage is ready to grow, but our mindset is still stuck in last year. That's true. And I love to rehearse old things that keep me in old places, and so we have to shift that. And I think that's why this conversation matters so much because a growth mindset doesn't ignore what's hard.
That would just be ignoring things and shoving things in the rug that's not helpful or growth. It just refuses to let yesterday's limits determine how tomorrow's relationship will be.
James: will be.
Lisa: A growth mindset says we can get better in handling conflict, right? It doesn't say we don't have conflict, it just says we, we can get better.
We can grow emotionally, we can grow spiritually. We can grow relationally, we can improve how we communicate. And with God's help, we can change old patterns and make new patterns and new pathways. And practically it means we start shifting the [00:10:00] way we think about ourselves, about each other.
James: And about
Lisa: our marriage relationship entirely.
That might look like intentionally choosing not yet language. I'll love this 'cause this can help. 'cause again, I don't like not facing reality, right? I don't like this positive thinking that everything's gonna get better with no effort or no change. Yeah. No. this not yet language is in place of the big absolute statements.
Right? So instead of saying, we'll never figure this out, it becomes, we're not there yet. Right. But we're learning. That's a growth mindset. Exactly. It also means we start celebrating small steps. Mm-hmm. Not just waiting for big breakthroughs. Every tiny moment of progress. Right. All momentum is momentum.
Right. The pause before reacting. Right. The softer tone. For me, the calculation of how I'm gonna approach something, the little effort, those things actually matter. These are signs of growth and often we don't celebrate them and they deserve to be noticed and celebrated. So.[00:11:00]
James: So
Lisa: When I think about this, I have so many illustrations, but I think about some of the couples we've worked with who get frustrated that a massive change hasn't happened immediately.
Yeah. Like when and where in the world does massive change happen immediately? Yeah. it just doesn't, it takes time. culture has given us this like microwave mindset that we are just gonna have what we want. Instant gratification. I know you have a lot of things in the leadership culture that talks about what is delayed.
Yeah. but we want things now just because we've gone to the gym one time, right. We want to have muscles defined. Well, that's what I do anyway, but I think specifically about, when I was pregnant three times over, so nine months. It took my body to stretch and grow and develop a human being inside of me, which is actually pretty amazing.
Yeah. But I had this idea, 'cause I saw other people who had babies and looked the same the day they left the hospital. Not Lisa. My ear lobes were swollen. I mean, I had swollen eyes, swollen ankles, swollen. But the reality is I had to [00:12:00] have a mindset that. Change was gonna take, it took me nine months to get in this condition.
It's gonna take me nine months to get my body back and possibly even longer. And there's gonna have to be discipline and things that happen there. Things don't just happen because we make the decision and we want the next day to have a result that's different. We have to live into it, walk into it, and actually know it takes time.
James: Yeah. It's those small smart decisions consistently over time that lead to success. Mm-hmm. And sometimes we think even in our marriage relationship, that is just gonna be a one thing that's gonna change everything, but it actually is those daily smart decisions, small steps that actually compound over time that create the marriage you want.
Lisa: right.
James: I think it reminds me too, that part of having a growth mindset is, Being curious, staying curious instead of assuming that, you know. Mm-hmm. You know, we always talk about a IC suicide or assuming makes an ass out of you and me. You know, that's, but like, I think there's
Lisa: even if you don't know, everyone knows around
James: you.
Right. I think there's, I think there's a lot of [00:13:00] assumptions that take place, especially with familiarity. I've heard somebody say familiarity breeds contempt, and so like the longer. You're married, it's easier to be less curious and more familiar and just assume that you know things are going.
But I think
Lisa: I actually think that as you, as you mature in marriage and you get years behind you, you have to become more curious. Mm-hmm. More curious than when you were dating. Yeah. Curiosity needs to actually double down and increase.
James: Yeah. Yeah. So good. Yeah. 'cause I think curiosity keeps you open, it keeps you engaged instead of just jumping to like, oh, okay, I know why you did that.
Or, , you always act that way. You know, growth mindset, ask, Hey, help me understand what was going on for you just then. I think, recently, if you take this outside of our marriage conversation and even to our family situation. I found recently that with our adult kids, which those of you who have young kids enjoy the season because when your kids become adults, it's a,
Lisa: we don't wanna scare them, James. We don't wanna scare
James: It's a [00:14:00] whole nother set of joy.
Lisa: It's a whole nother set of learning.
James: But, you know, one of the things I, I realized is that, with our kids getting older, they're all in their twenties and thirties now.
Lisa: now,
James: They have their own set of beliefs, their own set of what, the way they see the
Lisa: Mm.
James: Mm-hmm.
Which is not directed by us as much as it was when they were younger. And so, for me to have a more curious approach to help, help me understand why you see that thing that way instead of just pushing what I assume is right or what they should think has actually. I feel like opened up more opportunity for understanding conversation and greater depth in relationship with our kids.
But I think it's the same thing with marriage is that if I just assume that you see things exactly the way I do, because when we first got married, we were just so in love and that we haven't changed over time, then you know that assumption is going to actually. [00:15:00] Cause me to live with a fixed mindset and set a growth mindset that we, we are both continually evolving and growing.
Lisa: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. So I think we can all agree, that we are complex beings. I mean, I, we believe that God has designed us, uh, mind, body, and spirit. And there's so much in those three words. There's just complexity of intellect, emotions, our biological body, , our spirit man.
But there is a spiritual component to all of this mindset. So we're starting out with growth mindset, but. Anything that we talk about is gonna be connected to a biblical truth or understanding. A growth mindset isn't just good psychology, right? It's called discipleship.
James: That's true. That's true.
Lisa: Um, yeah.
So it's asking God to renew our minds. And guess what? There's a verse in Romans 12, two. That's great to live by. Don't copy the behaviors and customs of this world. Let that set in a second. So there's a lot of marriages and a lot of relationships that, fall to the customs of the world, and we can see how it's, it's a little bit treacherous, [00:16:00] but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you.
Think right then you'll learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect to help us see our spouse through grace instead of frustration. This verse helps us do that. It helps us change our tone, our posture, our reactions, even that 32nd prayer. Jesus. Sometimes Mine is Jesus, take the will, take it from me now 'cause I'm about to take it and hit somebody in the head.
But we can recenter our marriage so quickly with that. And that verse actually is a, is a mindset shift. Honestly, it would be a great scripture for this podcast, for this new year to set on your mirror, Romans 12, two, that we're not gonna copy the world, but we're gonna, we're gonna be transform our mind and.
Think new ways and learn how so that we can see what God's will is for us. That perfect will.
James: Yeah. And we think about [00:17:00] assumptions. I mean, I think the world behavior and custom is full of assumptions. I mean, you turn on the news every day, there's no goodwill or good heartedness towards each other. It's all assumptions of bad intent and you know, bad thinking or evil and
Lisa: media predicts it for us every time because it gives us the same stinking thread all over, over and over again The same.
James: over. Exactly. And so. Unfortunately that can creep into, , marriage relationship too, that we just assume bad intentions. And, and like we said all the time, most. Marriages don't have bad hearts, they have bad skills. And some of that skills is just bad thinking. And they're
Lisa: bad habits.
James: know, stinking thinking leads the, the bad behavior and the way they treat each other. So I think one last thought here too is that couples who have a growth mindset, they, they develop a rhythm of learning new skills
Lisa: Mm-hmm.
James: And I think this is something that you and I have, maybe unintentionally, but have done over our life is always trying to push each other and learn some new skills [00:18:00] and, and doing things together.
Healthy couples assume that we're always growing. That can mean, learning a new communication tool, uh, reading a marriage book together, uh, trying a new practice or a new activity, you know, building on some new common ground or even working maybe with a mentor or a coach, a counselor to just,
work on some skills to get better. So when you treat marriage as a place where you're always learning, you can actually create space for the relationship to get stronger year after year, and it gets better after better. So, again, shameless plug here, this is a good place for another, you know, pitch about the art espousing collective.
So you know, this year, if you're listening to this, why not invest in your growth together this year by joining the collective, you'll be amazed at, at what that small investment of resource and time. Will do for your marriage again. You can go on, aos collective.com to find out all the information, but they really encourage you.
Maybe that's the step you need to take this year is just showing up on a live call once a [00:19:00] month together, learning some tools and implementing them and actually collectively.
Building that growth mindset together.
Lisa: You know, one of the things I'm excited about the collective is, is as we're on there as a community, when someone has a question, they're like, Hey, how would you navigate this situation or this dynamic?
Or do you have a, a tool for this and that we're gonna be able to interact, live there. As you know, I love when people ask questions I'm begging to ask. Yeah. And then I don't have to be the person to ask it. Yeah. So it's gonna be a cool, I'm, I'm really excited about it. This actually reminds me of something that happened recently.
We were teaching a marriage workshop and a woman came up to me afterwards and said, why do you guys talk so much about a growth mindset? Is it really that big of a deal? And I actually get the question, but as many marriages that we've interacted with in our own marriage being the dominant one that's taught us the most, right?
If you're, if you've never heard it, it's actually really weird in terms of marriage of having a growth mindset. But here's [00:20:00] why we're so passionate about it over the course of marriage, you are not married to one version of your spouse. True. Yeah, you are married to a 25-year-old version and then a 30 5-year-old version, and then a tired parent version, and then figuring out a career change version, or I'm taking care of my elderly mom version and then I'm healing from old stuff version and the becoming who God wants me to be version all along through that.
We are constantly growing and becoming, marriage isn't static and neither are the people in it. It's so critical to a vibrant, healthy, thriving marriage, and that's why growth mindset is so important because it gives your spouse permission to keep becoming. The person God is shaping them to be right.
Additionally, it calls you up to keep growing into the person your spouse is proud to walk through life with. I love that a healthy marriage isn't just, I love you when we first said I [00:21:00] do. It's a commitment to loving who you're becoming and I'm committed to becoming someone worthy of walking alongside of you.
James. Often we have conversations right, about areas of growth that we're having because then it lets our spouse know. Hey, we're doing work, so you don't have to mention it. I wanna, I wanna acknowledge what I'm growing in because I don't want you to have to worry about how am I gonna bring this up to Lisa If I'm bringing it up, then you're like, Hey, that's a great idea.
Here's the heart behind all of this. Growth. Honors God. Growth honors the covenant we've made before God, and Marriage and Growth Honors the person you promised. Your life too. Think about that.
James: Mm-hmm.
Lisa: Growth honors. I'm, as I grow, I'm honoring you, James, that I promised my life to and vice versa.
It truly is the single key advice. If couples, anyone comes up to me and says, what is the key to marriage? I always say it's a growth mindset and since we're both pastors, people are [00:22:00] sometimes shocked that we wouldn't say Jesus. Of course. That's right. And of course he's always the right answer and he's the foundation and his word is what gives us guidance to how we live and how we operate.
But he is called us to grow, to disciple, be more, more like him every day. Right. Which requires a growth mindset, right? My 18-year-old self in relationship with Jesus. If you think about it, you were patient and kind and loving, but it, it's not gonna do, it's not gonna do at 54. No. Maturity is required.
We have a growth mindset around every aspect. Our being, you know, spiritually, we wanna keep growing emotionally, wanna keep growing intellectually, relationally, physically. You know, I, I have embraced fifties. I've, I, when I turned 50, I'm like, I'm 50 now. I'm 54, but. I wanna grow old with grace. Right? I'm comfortable with aging, but that doesn't mean I, give up on trying to increase muscle because I know I'm losing muscle.
I wanna do things that keep me strong, [00:23:00] vibrant, and keep me attractive to you. Can I get an amen? That's right. Encourage me in the Lord. Yeah. And so it's, it is for myself, but it is for, it's like we have to stay growing in all these aspects. We can't just grow in one.
James: Yeah. We actually just having this conversation this morning of like, now that we're getting a little older, we have, our kids are outta the house, we have a lot more time.
And you know, it's like, what are we gonna fill our days with, our evenings with that, are gonna keep us from just sitting on the couch, VEing on, you know, Netflix. Netflix. We
Lisa: we should be looking at all of those categories and going, where are we growing and taking steps.
Not massive ones, but we're making movement in those areas. Right.
James: Yeah, I love it. And I think here in that frame, that way really helps couples understand why mindset matters so much. Because if we're gonna be married to several different versions of each other over a lifetime,
having the growth mindset isn't optional. It's actually essential. It's what allows us to keep loving each other, learning each other, and champion each other as we grow. So as we wrap up this [00:24:00] conversation, here's what we want you to walk away with first. Your marriage doesn't stall because you lack love.
It usually stalls because your mindset quietly stop. The believing growth was possible.
Lisa: Ugh. And that's really not a shame statement. Right. It's really an invitation. It's an invitation to growth because the moment you shift from this is just how we are to God is still at work here and me and you and us, everything changes.
Yeah.
James: A growth mindset doesn't deny what's been hard, and let's face it, life is hard and you know there are mistakes that. Husbands and wives make in relationships. And so there are obviously hurts and pains that happen over time. It doesn't deny that, but it refuses to let the hardest seasons define the future of the relationship.
Come on.
Lisa: But here's the thing, even when genuinely you want a growth mindset, there are forces that work against it every single day. That's true. Today, when I was gonna go to my class to work [00:25:00] out, I said, I want to sit here and have coffee. Look at my beautiful deck, husband. That's right. I was thinking decorations, but beautiful husband.
That's exactly right. There are things that if we're not paying attention, we will quietly sabotage our mindset or take us off this goal to keep growing and pull us right back into those fixed patterns. And we have to be intentional about that.
James: right? And so in our next episode we're going talk a little bit more about that.
We wanna unpack five very real mindset killers that quietly sabotage marriages. And if you don't recognize them early, you're going to struggle with those things,
Lisa: right? Right. They're the five D's as duval, not as a duval, but Ds. Distortion, discouragement, doubt, distraction. Ultimately division. Mm-hmm.
We'll show you how they actually show up in everyday marriage moments, how they build on each other, and most importantly, how to interrupt the cycle before it creates distance between you [00:26:00] and your spouse. Once you can name what's pulling on your mindset and pulling it down, you can protect your marriage from slipping back into those old patterns and those five Ds are gonna help.
James: Yeah. So as we step into this new year together, our encouragement for you is simple before you try to change habits. Change your mindsets before you try to change your spouse.
Ask God to renew your mind and before you try to fix everything, just commit to growing in something. That's
Lisa: A growth mindset can create a growth year.
A growth year can create a more connected, healthier, and more joyful marriage. And we are so excited about this season of art espousing. We're back, we're refreshed. We have a growth mindset about it, and we have so much to share with you this year. If you found this show helpful, we would love it if you would share it with your friends and family.
I think we can all agree that the world needs more people with the right mindsets. That's
James: So we love to hear your thoughts and answer questions you have about what we shared.
You can email us at [00:27:00] hello@ourtheespousing.com or message us on Instagram or Facebook at Art espousing. Happy New Year and thank you for listening to the Art Espousing podcast. Until next time.
Lisa: bye-bye.