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Social Justice - A Conversation
Unknown Speaker 0:00
You're listening to locally produced programming created in pay you envy studios on Public Radio, K, u and v. 91.5. Hi, I'm Charles Stanton. I'm on the faculty of the Honors College of UNLV. And the Boyd School of Law.
Unknown Speaker 0:18
Hi, I'm Lana weatherald. I'm a third year law student. Welcome to social justice, social
Unknown Speaker 0:22
justice, the conversation conversation.
Unknown Speaker 0:28
Good evening, everybody. It is Thursday, February 17. And we're happy you're joining us once again on social justice, a conversation. I'm Liana weatherald, a law student here at UNLV is Boyd School of Law joined alongside my former professor and current professor here at Boyd School of Law as well as well as UNLV is Honors College. That's Professor Charles Stanton. Today we have you know, we hate to start the show like this, but we do have to report on another mass shooting here in America, I'm going to have the professor sort of give you some details. And of course, we'll you know, we feel that if we aren't talking about it, we're not bringing the sort of awareness that these sorts of issues need. And if you know, everybody refuses to believe and acknowledge that these things are real and happening, and that these are real lives, and we don't talk about these things and who will. So with that, I'm gonna pass it on over to the professor. Thanks for joining us.
Unknown Speaker 1:16
Thank you, Lana. Good evening, everybody. Yes, this has become a sad but regular part of our show. And, again, we seem to become numb to all these different atrocities that are being committed, not only in the college and milieu, but also all throughout our society. Apparently, there's a plan in the Michigan Legislature, because now the Democratic Party has majorities in both houses of the Michigan Legislature to try to regulate gun usage, gun ownership, and all those related issues. Now, whether or not that's something that can actually come to legislation that will be held up held valid by the courts down the road, I do not know. And Michigan is a very interesting state because you have a democratic part of Michigan, which is the Detroit area of Flint and places like that. And then you have another part of the state, which is very rural. And Michigan is is a hunting state, Michigan in many places is a gun state. Hunting and those things attended to the use of a gun are not considered anything abnormal or out of the usual. I remember a number of years ago when I read it, well, Charlton Heston's autobiography, and he's on the cover of the book with a hunting rifle. And that's how and that's how he grew up. He grew up hunting and you know, doing all the rest of those things. But again, a lot of it is a lot of it is to actually come to fruition as a law depends on the approach that's made and how it's framed by the people who want sensible gun control. sensible gun control is not depriving someone of a right have the right to protect their home. And sensible gun control is not a thesis,
Unknown Speaker 3:25
yet. I think people they view sensible gun control, you're 100% on the right track. It's an attack on sport and recreation, which would never be the intention. And I think, you know, a machine gun is a lot different than a sawed off shotgun. And they have very different purposes. And I think, yeah, so much of the conversation is not nuanced, like how I think I believe you and I have been having on the show for however many weeks now, the conversation is much more black and white, and it's much more they want to come and swoop up all your guns wholesale, they're gonna knock on your doors or god forbid, have some sort of buyback program that they all think is on the horizon? I mean, that's just really not the reality of what I think. Cop like you say common sense. Gun control is?
Unknown Speaker 4:06
Yeah, I think I think a lot of that has been a lack of like, good messaging, right, by the by the people who want sensible gun control. Because clearly, when you get right down to it, if you sat down and debated with pretty much anybody who even believes in, you know, completely unlimited gun usage, what would their justification be for having an assault weapon? What would their justification of explanation be for the purpose of having such a gun? So I think, I think that I think that's where it needs to go. And I think the other issue that you have now is because it happened on a college campus, how do you keep a college campus safe for the students and the faculty and the visitors propose
Unknown Speaker 4:57
things like the metal detectors or With the teachers having guns, I mean, all all, everything that I have seen that people have, you know, coined common sense, as far as getting these guns off of school campuses and college campuses in particular would affect the quality of learning and the quality of education that students receive and would impede them and cost time and cost and money and already exorbitant prices for kids to be educated that I can't even imagine what adding additional restrictive measures because of this gun problem would do. But what else can you do it but try to, you know, float every single idea possible, but good god, there's got to be something better than let's have a metal detector, like, you know, they're going into the Madison Square Garden. Instead, they're going into their Student Union. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 5:45
Well, I think I think, definitely universities certainly have to Amp up security, security presence on the campus. And I think that, uh, you know, in major cities, you have to get, you have to get the police department involved, the police department has to take as a priority. I believe that maintain the safety of a college campus, not not just the college campus, but high schools, you know, schools where you have young people attending class, and there has to be a coordination between them and the people who run these institutions, I
Unknown Speaker 6:30
think you will lose brilliant students, when you increase security or you increase a police president or so you increase the type of Yeah, sort of eight security measures in general, I think, are probative to keeping certain people out. And I, I would be hard pressed to I think find people of my age in my creed that would believe that increased security would make them feel more safe on campus, I would argue it would make them feel less safe, especially for students of color.
Unknown Speaker 6:58
Yeah, no, I, I can I can see that. I do. Remember when I was working. When I was working in the court system. I was one of the promo gators for that kind of security. Right. And in that in that milieu, of course. And it's a different milieu because obviously, you're dealing with, you know, a number of people who might have, who might be criminals or have criminal intent. But we were able to put together a program basically where it cut down on certain things that had happened, and also really prevented a couple of occasions, a couple of things that would have been catastrophic, but as to how you as to how you make the balance between, you know, academic freedom and the feeling that you're in a safe place. I think that I think that this university here,
Unknown Speaker 7:56
I think they've done a terrible job personally. I mean, I'm not afraid to say it. We've had a lot of violent acts at this university and adjacent and you know, it's hard. This is Las Vegas, Nevada, right? You know, it's not like we are the shining beacon of, you know, behavior as far as common criminals are concerned. But yeah, we have had quite a few startling violent attacks on campus or campus adjacent, that have that have shooken, you know, us to our core, I think, and these are not only on campus acts, but these are campus housing campus adjacent. So you can't even be safe than in your own home once you leave the campus because these acts are happening there as well. So, yeah, our campus personally, but what do you do? Well,
Unknown Speaker 8:37
I think I think, in the case of UNLV, UNLV is a diverse institution. So my, my, my slot, and my worry is always about people who are not receptive to the ideals that this university promulgates. Right. And you I always think about that, how do we how do we protect our our, our, our faculty, students, administrators, what have you? It's not a it's not a question that's that's easily solved. But certainly, at the heart of the whole thing is the is the unhealthy access to weaponry. That really is at the bottom line. Yes, there are people who could have a knife or they could have to vie for what is it what have you, but a lot less damage is done a lot less than a lot less damage is done. And I think there's a lot of apathy in our society to you know, it's more you know, when these when these lives are lost, of course, you know, you you grieve and you know, they have memorials for people and all that all that stuff is as it should be, but you have to once these things happen, try to formulate a plan of action. to try to create a system that minimizes that risk in the future. And I think, you know, it would be an ideal thing. If is particularly on college campuses, if the if they formed a nationwide committee of people who were presidents and chancellors, who would work together to try to maybe set up a nationwide program that could be in some way ameliorative of what's been going on, because obviously, the response on on this a few days ago, was not the response that we needed, basically. And so so that's the first part of our that's the first part of my discourse tonight. And we jumped from that into the ex Vice President Mike Pence, who never fails to surprise one. Just when you think you haven't figured it figured out as a certain kind of person. He disappoints you. But he has put forth the idea now that he's not going to honor the subpoena that he's been given related relating to testimony about his involvement with the press, and not so much involvement with the President. But his his dealings with the president regarding whether or not he should verify the vote in the Congress on January on January 6. And what so is so mind boggling to me is, this is a man who, first of all, he wrote a book that's been published about what that experience was. So it's not like he kept secret from the
Unknown Speaker 11:39
world, what was going on behind closed doors,
Unknown Speaker 11:41
behind closed doors. But not only that, not only that, forgetting, forgetting all the just the legalities for a second, and getting down to some basic human things. Basically, there was an orchestration from the top, aided and abetted by people who were, you know, organizing, sending these people to the Capitol, and amongst the people themselves, who basically their mission, one of their missions, was to kill Mike Pence, right? To hang my pants literally, and to kill his family. So my question is, if someone is going to kill you, and they're going to kill your family, what what sense of misguided loyalty, right when you have to vote person who basically wanted to protect those people essential to protect those people? And the cynic? The cynic in me says, well, he's the second he says, Well, you know, he has an intention of running for president really, and, and that is the most ludicrous idea. No, I write, I did his shot of getting.
Unknown Speaker 12:49
He inflamed his own base by doing the right thing initially on January 6, and he inflames almost everybody on the left by his mere existence, and by the vitriol, all these views. So well, who's voting for Mike Pence? Riddle me this? I mean, what voter is he attractive to? And I don't mean, you know, I don't mean that to be crass or harsh. I mean, that very genuinely. Who is he appealing to?
Unknown Speaker 13:13
Well, it's, um, I'm working my way through a book now called the divider. And it was written by two correspondents for the New York Times interesting. And the bulk of the book is really appalling. I've read several books about, you know, the former administration. And, you know, you know, what happened on January sixth? Then, you know, you read all these reports, you know, the Muller report, the report of the House committee that 1000s and 1000s of pages. But when you when you read this book, and I'm only I'm only 200 pages into it, another 700 pages Louise, the thing that strikes you as the previous administration, there should have been action taken way, way, way, way before even there was a formal investigation of by by Mahler, or any of these people about things that were clearly wrong and illegal that were going on. And people were, you know, people were, you know, in the cabinet, people who are in positions of authority in throughout the executive branch. And, and, and, and did nothing. Mike Pence in particular, Mike Pence, in particular, because he was the vice president. And he really, he really had a duty not to be a serf or a lackey complacent. And then, you know, going, going back to what I started this, this this Amal odd about, he now claims that the reason for the exemption for his not having to honor the subpoena is that he is protected under the under the Speech and Debate Clause of the Congress. So actually that he is actually also in the legislative branch when he was in also on the executive branch. And actually, he's claiming that because he he had two acts that he performed one Act, which was being the 51st vote right to pass legislation when Trump was the president. And the second thing is to validate to validate the election under his duty under the Constitution, that makes him part of the legislative branch. I mean, the the the, I'm gonna use a nice word audacity of such a claim is really
Unknown Speaker 15:35
wonder what Harvard educated lawyer recommended him that legal strategy
Unknown Speaker 15:40
there were there were plenty of them. I know, there were no they were. Yeah, that's the other interesting thing about it, though, you know, being a being an attorney. And you know, Lassen will be an attorney, is really mind boggling. When you look at all the people who were in the legal profession who were advising these people. And you didn't know that there was something really wrong there. And what was your duty to to our country, Don McGann primarily was just one of them. But there were a whole bunch of people who really needed to really be more assertive, and, if necessary, if necessary, you know, renounced their job announced their job. But the thing was, that the Republican Party and the conservative wing of the party and the donor wing of the Republican Party contributed all this money to the to the campaign was a it was the bargain that they made with a man who they knew was unfit by character, by experience. And so I thought the whole deal he was going to deliver then the Supreme Court, and that's what he did, he did it and all these other moral failings that he had, that would have disqualified any other person, right? They went with it, they went with And now and now they basically have 35 to 40% of their of their flock that will vote for this man no matter what he does. So what are you going to do now? And then the trotting out of all these people who are going to run against them? All that's going to do was divide the vote. And
Unknown Speaker 17:17
he's already started. I mean, he's posted net Ron DeSantis. Is a groomer, because he was like, at some college party. Yeah, maybe the kind of another thing I really look like the picture, you know what I mean? So it's like, it's already starting, this guy's gonna win. I mean, this guy's gonna win in the landslide, no matter who they are. It could even be Ron DeSantis, who I think I thought in previous shows, you know, I sort of had a little bit of pushback with you about, maybe it will be good old Ronnie Boyd. No, it won't be. No, it won't be. No, it will be him again. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 17:41
no, it's it's amazing, though, how what that appeal is to people. And that's what I don't understand what I don't understand. You
Unknown Speaker 17:51
know, professor, he is funny. I mean, like, I agree with you, 100%. He is unfit in every single capacity you could possibly conjure up to be the President of the United States. But he's kind of funny. And I think that's it. I mean, he's kind of a funny dude. And people like him, and he's got this sort of, like, He's your uncle sort of situation about him. Despite being an idiot, despite being totally unfit for the job. He's got something likable about him as much as I hate to say and as much as I feel like he's destroyed the very fiber of our country. Something about them. There's some sort of general c'est quoi that unfortunately, Donald Trump possesses that a lot of politicians don't.
Unknown Speaker 18:26
Yeah, well, I think I think a lot of it is, though, I think a lot of it is, though, that on the basic issues, particularly the racist view,
Unknown Speaker 18:36
well of there, he says a quiet part out loud. I mean, that is a big percentage of his base that he says the quiet part out loud,
Unknown Speaker 18:41
I think, I think that has a lot to do with it. Because if you look from a financial economic point of view, as to the benefit to the vast majority of the people who voted for him, it wasn't any. It was all for the, you know, the ruling class, the Supreme Court ruling, they got the Supreme Court ruling. And it's interesting now, it's interesting. Now, we were discussing this in classes about justice Cavanaugh, and how that whole hearing was, like a repeat of Clarence Thomas. In fact, it was worse than Clarence Thomas, and how the how the FBI was really complicit in not doing a full investigation of that. And, you know, it's sad that the What shall we say position of the FBI was, well, we could only investigate what the president you know, basically told us that's ridiculous. I mean, come on. And of course, they got the
Unknown Speaker 19:46
point. Is that how the FBI is operating? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 19:50
And they got a guy, the guy, the guy who's still the head of the FBI who was basically chris Christie's attorney, and he winds up being the head to the FBI. But anyway, all right. So marching along, I'm gonna give you this one, basically the depression issue about the teenage suicide and all that, which is heartbreaking.
Unknown Speaker 20:12
So the professor had informed me about, you know, some recent scholarship about an increase in depression in teenage girls in sort of leading to suicidality. And I think there's enough research out there to sort of indicate what it is. But from my perspective, you know, the, the strongest arguments, I believe, are, of course, social media, probably number one, and the false expectations that that sets on young girls, I was very fortunate that I was just starting to go on social media when it wasn't people didn't know what it was yet. And it wasn't like very bizarre curated, were bottled blondes or selling you Fit Tea to make you look like the bottle blonde. That was not my experience on the internet, it was still very niche. And still, you kind of found a subset of people that liked the weird thing you liked. In my case, that was the band One Direction, but if you liked certain things, you found that niche and you didn't get exposed to the most beautiful, the most rich, you know, the most spectacular people constantly on a barrage on your feet. And that's, that is genuinely what I think most girls see, you know, they pull up their Facebook, they pull up their Instagram, they pull up their Twitter, and it is just a barrage of people that have things that they do not. And that that is a whole new experience on the internet. I don't think that's how initial early experiences on the internet went. And it is now unfortunately, and I think it's at a rate that it's out of control, right? I mean, everybody now wants to look like a certain version of a certain girl and have a certain job and a certain guy and a certain thing. And then when these girls, that's not their lot in life, or they don't attain that by x age, or they don't see that, you know, future for them, that that's what I think creates this insecurity which then festers, which then leads to these depressive attitudes or depressive issues, which then can lead to something as serious as suicide, and I think it starts there. But also, the onus is on the parents, Professor, what are your kids watching? What are your kids doing on social media? How much time do they spend on social media? Are they bringing up certain things that draw red flags for you? Who are they following on social media? I'm sorry, Mom, I'm sorry, data, you can be on Facebook and see who they're friends with. You can be on Instagram and see who they follow. You can see those things. If you're paying their freaking cell phone bill, and you have the audacity to spend $200 a month to expose them to things that make them want to kill themselves. You have a you have a duty, sorry. So I think it becomes all these young girls looking at these things on Instagram and making them sick while their parents can take away the phone. Hello.
Unknown Speaker 22:40
Yeah. But
Unknown Speaker 22:43
again, the some onus needs to be on these multibillion dollar companies to for that with the kind of product because they were just as successful and they were promoting you one direction or poke them on or whatever, the My Little Pony whatever the kids are into these days, right? They are just as successful promoting niche communities than they are promoting communities of the most beautiful rich women you've ever seen. But the parents on these companies, and I do think, you know, these little girls should have some incentive to put the phone down and go outside, which makes me sound like a baby boomer. But I do notice some difference between how I grew up on the internet and how kids even 10 years younger than me grew up on the internet. And yeah, if I had to diagnose it and boil it down to one thing, yeah, probably the phone's probably the internet. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 23:26
Well, I think I think that the internet has been a very, two edged sword. I think that in many ways, it's it's been wonderful. It may be one of the greatest, maybe the greatest invention that was ever created by by human kind. But there's another side to it. There was a case in New Jersey. I guess it was a few days ago when this girl was 13 or 14 years old, committed suicide. They videoed her being beaten up in school. And then they posted the video on Tik Tok. And again, there the regular there needs to be I keep saying this, like a like a regulatory body. There needs to be a regulatory body for stuff involving children who are under the age that there's certain things that should not be should not be disseminated and
Unknown Speaker 24:28
then I feel so guilty because I had a Facebook professor, this is not an exaggeration at 10 years old, at 10 years old is when I made my first Facebook account. Now what did I have access to my family up in Wisconsin? Because I had moved to Florida right? So that was the primary reason I had access to it. And I I gained from that right I did so I do feel like there has to be to wholesale because my mom didn't have enough time to then watch what I was doing. If I was talking to my auntie on Facebook so then I I feel bad that I make these comments about oh, it's up to them. Parents don't watch this stuff. And because it's it's hard because these kids, it's even if even if you did everything right, their friend at school could still have access to these things, no matter what regulatory body is doing or what, what kind of parental supervision there is. So then it's, it just has permeated this culture so much that you wonder if anybody could ever get control over. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 25:19
Well, I, I definitely think the bullying thing is a major issue. And I think children that at that age have been bullied. And you know, when we there was no, there was bullying when, you know, I was I was growing up dinosaur a creature that I, but it was, it was a, it was a different thing. It was not well, there really wasn't any internet, then. But even beyond that, though, there's there's like, there should be like a societal responsibility. That should be I think, you know, I don't mean to, I mean, this is not a, this is not a program, promoting religion. But they know that we have a moral, spiritual problem in this country, about really defining what right and wrong is, this is what really is at the heart of a lot of our problems. It's, it's, it's in a lot of ways you hit on it, you know, with the parents and regulation, where the children are not being taught certain basic principles of how to behave and how to conduct themselves. And what is right and what is wrong.
Unknown Speaker 26:28
Yeah. And because then the internet is such a pardon my French here hellscape, that then is so unregulated, then they see behaviors or certain things, or certain ideals espoused on the internet with no repercussions. So then what does that teach a child, I can say these things that can espouse these views, I can behave in that way, with no repercussions. So even if it was as simple as you know, they had no problem, we saw what happened with the President, it's very easy to remove somebody's views or beliefs off of social media, remove them wholesale off of social media, IP addresses, their tracking your IP address, no matter where you are, what you're doing, it doesn't matter. These internet service providers know where you are and who you are and what you're doing. So we could stop people from having access to social media wholesale and being on these sorts of websites and in espousing their ideas. And then having children believe that that sort of views are okay, but we don't and I think that would be an easy enough, it's a cheap fix doesn't cost anything to hit block, you know, it doesn't. So, it is interesting to me that, you know, we won't even take the cheap fixes, let alone a regulatory body, let alone forcing the parents to look at themselves in the mirror. We won't even do the cheap fix of just taking the crazies off the internet. We won't even do that. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 27:35
Well, I think I think that a lot of our own problems related to social justice, and the perpetuation of social injustice is indifference. Right? We have a large, I wouldn't say, I don't know what the percentages are. I mean, there's a bunch of people in this country who nonprogressive right. And then there's a bunch of people that are racist, let's say yeah. And then there's the vast majority of people who are racist, they're not really progressive, but they're not racist, who just well, you know, today's another day, and I'm gonna, you know, there's like, a lack of awareness about what's going on around you in the world, a lack of curiosity, as to how the other people in in your sphere, even in your life, in your experience, during the day, are making out, and everything is very, very much about myself, right. It's about me, myself, and I?
Unknown Speaker 28:37
Well, I think so much of that is kind of the the environment that America has created, right, where you have to sometimes just live one day at a time, because that's all you can do to make ends meet, you know, not to end the show on such a sour note. But I think for a lot of people, it is everything to just get out of bed and make it to work feed the kid, you know, and so they can't think beyond, you know, when we knew and I can afford to have these very, you know, complex conversations about the intertwining of politics and life. And I don't know, if some people not only do they not have the, you know, sort of this sounds terrible and elitist a little bit, but they don't have the sort of vernacular vocabulary to have those conversations. They don't have the time, they don't have the money. They don't have the experience. They don't have the people around them that would support them to have that conversation with you. So I you know, there is some level of guilt that rises in with me because I was that kid not 10 years ago, so I don't Yeah, I It's hard because yes, people don't care and complacency might be the death of this country. But a lot of those people don't have the means to care. And so that might start with giving people the means to bring themselves to care. So with that. Thank you for listening, you know, the professor and I do want to take questions about the show or any concerns or any suggestions, suggestions for topics that you might have for us. Go ahead and send those to my email address and this is through the UNLV school. So that was that would be w e t h e. l one@unlv.nevada.edu. Thanks for listening. We'll see you again next Thursday.
Unknown Speaker 29:57
Thank you and good night.
Unknown Speaker 29:58
Thank you for coming to our show. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us at weather one that's w e t h e l one@nevada.unlv.edu. Or to contact Professor Charles Stanton, contact him at CHA R L E S That's Charles dot Stanton, s t a n t o n@unlv.edu. See you next time
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