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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
Cody Buriff
Hey fellas, welcome to another episode of the Restorative Man Podcast. My name's Cody Buriff, and with this podcast, I'll be co-hosting with my man man Jesse French. Jesse Hey man. Good to see you. Good to see you. Everybody, just kind of let you know, Restoration Project, we believe that men have three core identities. We believe that sonship is one of those, kind of how they live into their identity as a son.
Jesse French
What's up, Cody.
Cody Buriff
Brotherhood is another one where it's really about their engagement with other men in their lives. And then the the third one is actually fatherhood and how they bring a fathering energy to the world. For the next several episodes, we're actually gonna focus in on brotherhood specifically, that role, that identity. And this week in this podcast, we're gonna have a conversation around the difference between buddies and brothers. And I think it's one of those conversations that
It might sound really simple at first, but it actually exposes a pretty deep ache that I think a lot of guys have. So Jesse, what would you say guys are experiencing out there?
Jesse French
Yeah, I think part of the reason that we wanted to start here, Cody, was the concept of buddies, even just as people hear that term, I would imagine there is like a fairly quick image that kind of pops into our heads, right? Of like, I've got those in my life. I've got buddies, right? And it, you know, we're gonna get into it more, but it's those are the guys largely we'd say that's like friendships organized around a some sort of shared interest, right? Like fishing buddies, you know.
golfing buddies, whatever. And I think that's true. And yet, I think what you just said, you use that really interesting word ache that men feel. And I think what you're asking and wondering in that is are our souls like actually nourished and fed by the relationships in our lives that only exist in the buddy sphere, if I can make that up.
And I think that's kind of the question that we're wondering, right? Because I think that we're all probably in different points of on the continuum of recognition of like what our relationships are like, you know, what are our needs. And yet what the question is and that you're wondering about is like, is my soul nourished in deep ways? And ways I think that we would argue like God intends for us to be connected and nourished. And if we're not, if the answer to that is no, like, then I think that
Begins to explore and open up some possibility of is there more right in the relationships, specifically the friendships that we have with other men? And so the the ache is like, can we even maybe even sit with that acknowledgement of man, I I actually want more from the friendships that I have in my life? I think even that admission or that acknowledgement feels like an important, but also like kind of a risky thing to acknowledge, don't you think?
Cody Buriff
Yeah, for sure. I mean it it's hard to acknowledge that sometimes 'cause it feels a little bit weak, frankly. But
Jesse French
Say more about that. Like you're admitting a need, like I want something more and so what I have isn't enough. Is it nothing of a deficiency or something, maybe?
Cody Buriff
Yeah, basically. You know, I I think if we back up though and and kind of look at the big picture, it's like, you know, we've all heard, or at least most of us I'd say, have heard like there's a loneliness epidemic going on. Especially among younger men are at least maybe more willing to name it. But men are lonely. They're experiencing loneliness. Friendships are hard, you know. And I think even, you know, guys our age, kind of more thirties, forties.
you know, even fifties are are kind of realizing like friendship is a lot different now than it was when we were in high school and college. When we had, you know, constant overlap with people that we weren't just like working alongside of, but actually getting to spend time with and have fun with. And, you know, and so just even being able to name the loneliness kind of names like, shoot, like, how did I get here?
I must have failed along the way to get to this spot of not having friends. Crap. I actually am needing people in my life, you know, that know me. And so I think both of those can be hard to admit. And I think more and more people are actually realizing that and bringing that up.
Jesse French
Yeah. I would imagine if we would have been having this conversation, I don't know, even ten or fifteen years ago to say like, I'm lonely, right? Probably carries this like, this is an admission maybe of of fault or I've screwed up, like you said, right? And what you're saying, right, is no actually the the normalization of loneliness, unfortunately, is more of the rule rather than the exception. And it's more of the this is the reality of modern life today that most people are experiencing that.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, I don't I mean we don't have the statistics around it. I think there's, you know, somewhere around half, I think, admit it. And there's probably a big chunk of those who don't name it who just aren't aware of their need. need so
Jesse French
Which I think it's interesting, Cody, to that I we were talking before we started and there's a really I think a helpful way that this guy named Billy Baker had described loneliness, which I think is applicable to this, is he said, Look, loneliness is not just the person who has no connections in their life and is just a a hermit. Loneliness is when our desire for connection in our life is not being met. So he's like, Look, you can be in a crowd and experience loneliness. You can
Have your life. Man, I have these lists of friends. I'm not just totally disconnected. And yet I still want more. And so loneliness is experienced. And so I think when I heard that, I'm like, that reframes that a little bit, right? Like loneliness is not I know no people. Loneliness is, man, I actually want something more. The ache that you just were talking about at the beginning of the episode. Like, I have an ache for more connection that isn't being realized in my life.
Cody Buriff
Totally. So Jesse, we're talking about the difference between buddies and brothers. Those are terms that kinda get thrown around in Restoration Project a bit. So would you like what is a buddy? Can you define what is a buddy?
Jesse French
Yeah. I think the way that our colleague Chris Bruno talks about it in in one of the books that he wrote, The Brotherhood Primer, which I think is helpful, is a buddy is is a relationship that we have in our life that is defined by a shared interest. So again, like I said, you can have fishing buddies and these are the guys that relationship is most defined by we do this activity together. You know, it's this is like sports fans, I would say, are
And a perfect example of buddies, right? We're united by our common interest in a team. And so that just sort of simple definition of a of a shared interest as the unifying concept for a relationship, that's what a buddy is. And so that becomes the basis for connection is around that shared activity.
Cody Buriff
Yeah. That makes sense. So I have a drawing like open studio thing I do every other Thursday night. Yep. And there are guys there that like we'll have some little conversation in between drawing sessions or whatever. And it's like I don't even know if I'd quite put them on the level of buddy. But they don't know who I am really, you know. Right. But we we show up every other week and and draw together, you know.
Jesse French
And I would imagine, Cody, does that like you said, maybe there's a little bit of some small talk in some of that, but what is the bulk of your engagement in that space around like, hey, show me what you've drawn or it's somehow connected into the drawing space?
Cody Buriff
Often. Yeah, most often. Yeah. Yeah.
Jesse French
Yeah. I'm the same way. Like I have fishing buddies that's like, hey, the time that we spend together is when we're on the river, like fishing. Cody, why do think this is prevalent? Or why like that type of relationship like so so common?
Cody Buriff
Yeah, I mean it's the the easiest type to have, I'd say. How so? Well, let me let me step back and just say this. I think there's probably three levels. I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna Chris I know has more levels than that. but I'm gonna like make it real simple and just say like a lot of us don't actually spend any time with other men. Like you look at your calendar, there's probably nothing there outside of maybe like your work relationships, you know.
Those maybe would be your buddies, you know, for some of the guys, they don't spend any extracurricular time with other men. There's other guys that have buddies, like what we're talking about here, and then we'll we'll get to brothers in a minute. Buddies are easy because there's a shared interest that brings you together. Because and I would say this like the reality is the conversations you have with a buddy are the types of conversations that are gonna in the moment relieve the pressure.
I think maybe I I'll say it this way. Buddies are gonna keep things light. They're not gonna go deep. You know, they're more likely to like distract you from your life than help you like take a deeper dive into it. They know your hobbies, but they don't know anything about you. They don't know, you know, your story, they don't know where you hide, they don't know what you need, you know, any of those kinds of things. And it's a lot easier to go those keep things at that surface level. It feels safer.
Yes. and so that's that's why we have buddies and that's why we often don't have brothers. Yeah, because brothers require a lot of risk.
Jesse French
Yeah. So on the buddy level, which I I think is important to say is like part of this conversation is like not to try to eliminate buddies from our life. Like there's a certain level of like buddies are right and good, right? Like this is that level of friendship makes sense and is appropriate. But I think what you're saying though is like as far as our friendships are able to go is to that light space that you just described where, you know, the can the the conversation and engagement is around that shared activity and we don't actually get
into some of the deeper places that you just talked about, then I think the ache and the desire just continues, right? Because it's that it is that unmate desire, which is some of you just ended it of saying like to pursue something more is it's risky, right? And I would say there's, and I want to hear your thoughts on it. One reason I would say it's risky is I think that language that you talked about of like, hey,
my own need or my own fear or like my own insecurity that is pushing past the level of buddies, like there's the perception that that language just is not helpful, right? So there's the risk of how will this be received? But what's some of the other risk I think, Cody, that when we consider those buddies that keeps us in that space and instead of risking in a good way towards some more depth into the Brotherhood world.
Cody Buriff
Yeah. Well I think there's a reality, it's like we innately want to be known by other men and we're terrified of being known by other men. And so the risk is that I think there's two risks. One is that you're gonna try to initiate going a little bit deeper and you're gonna like hit the wall.
Jesse French
Yeah.
Just the like super awkward yeah, like what what are you talking about, man? Yeah.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, totally, totally. Or you like share something really deep and significant and they're like, Okay. And they don't reciprocate. Yeah. No, that's terrifying, right? I think the other thing that's probably terrifying is dang, now they actually know me. And somebody has permission to like be in my life, which could result in re being rejected.
Like, dang, they know me and now they judge me for what they know about me. Or, you know, maybe in in some ways it's even a little bit scarier, they won't reject you. Now, I don't think most of us are able to like actually put our finger on that reality, but I think that plays in the back of our minds.
Jesse French
Yeah. Do you think in that space, Cody, of that risk, like I hear you say that and in my mind I go to we probably have a long list of instances in life where our friendships have ended in rejection, in no response, poor response. And so there's a lot of data on that side of the ledger that says like, man, that felt awful. And so
To push towards something more is to risk yet maybe another instance of man, this guy didn't know what to do with it or, you know, never called me back for now. It's just another example of that. Yeah. Or worse, right.
Cody Buriff
Right.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think there's a reality, Jesse, that like evil, like, you know, Satan and all all the forces of darkness, if you will, like are pretty opposed to us knowing and being known by other people. You know, being connected, I think, and having brothers offers us something that he doesn't want us to experience. And so
It's just gonna keep like pushing that that narrative, you know, and reminding us and and trying to convince us that it's not safe. And then it's just easier to just go about your life, don't take the risk. Buddies are okay, buddies are normal and and you know, nobody has best friends anymore. Like that was a thing of childhood, you know. And so I think there's that reality at play as well, you know. Mm hmm. There is opposition.
Jesse French
I think that's true. I think there's also another dynamic of like, I don't think this is modeled for us at all. Like there's very little example, I would say, in most people's experience and in today's culture of the the only I would say the only example we have is of buddies. Yes, this is what male friendship can look like. It's hobby based. There is no other deeper like, this wait, this could be possible.
And so even that sort of like vision of something rich, of something more, for most people is like, I don't even have a category for that.
Cody Buriff
Yeah. I mean Jesse, when I step back and think about that as you say that, it's like, yeah, most of the older men in my life don't seem to actually have good friends. Like
Jesse French
Not interesting.
Cody Buriff
They're not spending like significant time with another dude who knows them. Most of their time, you know, if they have buddies, they might spend time with buddies here and there, but most of their time is not with anybody necessarily. You know? Yeah. Which is crazy.
Jesse French
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
That's the baseline.
Cody Buriff
Right. And that's not good for us. Like that's not like and and all right, so let me let me let's jump to brothers. And I'm just gonna ask you, Jesse, like what is a brother and why is it important?
Jesse French
Yeah, I would say just trying to be somewhat concise, and then we can get into more of the layers of it. I mean, we at Restoration Project, like we would say a brother is someone who knows your story, who is able to hold your story. And by story, we don't mean the timeline and biography of your life, of lived here, got this job. What we actually mean is how you were formed by
the experiences and relationships in your life. And so a brother is the one who knows that, who knows and is in pursuit of the image of God that you reflect and how evil has been in opposition to that. Yeah. So to be really concise, I would I would say it that way. A brother is is that type of relationship.
Cody Buriff
Yeah. I love how you summarize it there. At the very end it was like, okay, a brother is somebody who knows or at least has the access to knowing your glory and how that glory has been opposed in the midst of your life. And so yeah
Jesse French
Which which can we just pause for a second? Like, and I would say this, you know, if we had this conversation twelve thirteen, fourteen years ago, you could have said that phrase to me and I would have been like, ha that sounds cool. Like, that doesn't exist. Like again, there was no category for that of like, wait, that's possible. And so I think that like our invitation is yes, it is, and like
Boy, talk about a massive jump from we go golfing together to I I know the goodness of God that your life reflects and how it's been opposed. Yes, we have now entered the deep end.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, seriously. Because then like that kind of relationship can like be with you in the like day to day, week to week struggles and celebrations and those kinds of things and be with you in it in the context of the greater story that you've lived in. And such that like, okay, you're struggling in this right now, your marriage or your job or whatever it is. But the brother
Once you know, that has been deeply developed, sees that in its greater context. Yes. And is able to say, that's interesting. It makes sense that you're experiencing that way. You know, is able to call out maybe even the voice of evil that's being whispered in your ear. Or call out the glory that's possible. Dude, that feels foggy whisper of possibility that's really hard to grab onto for most men.
I would imagine most of the guys listening to this have maybe only glimpsed that from time to time. And it's real hard to hope for.
Jesse French
Mm-hmm. I totally agree. And I think the the hard to hope for, right, is a few reasons, right? We talked about like the risk, the long list of examples of rejection around, you know, the ways that has gone, you know, woefully wrong and and not experience that. I mean, the other piece of that, Cody, right, is like to get to the place of here is a brother who knows and has eyes for my glory, my image bearingness.
And the way that evil is opposed to that. To get to that place where that can be exchanged, it feels like, you know, our friend Greg would probably use maybe a metaphor of like, we need a like a new operating system of of how we relate. And what I'm saying is like the common way of relating as men that is interest-based, that is present in hobbies, not helpful. Like the common maybe operating system that's present in lots of men of like,
the measuring and where do I stand and and how do I prove my worth, not helpful to actually get to the space of brotherhood. And so if we're saying if those aren't helpful, something else is needed. And so not only is it risky, but it's like, well, we gotta figure this out and sort of like learn a new language together. Like well that feels maybe clunky. Yes.
Cody Buriff
Totally. Right. Well, and the amount of energy it requires and time it requires to invest in that type of a relationship with other men is like that's a big deal, you know? Yes. And most of No. Yeah. No. It's you know, over the course of time and lots of time together. And some of that is shoulder to shoulder, right? Some of that is doing things together. and some of it is talking.
Jesse French
like a thirty minute d you know, download.
Cody Buriff
I'm aware like Jesse, there's kind of this like stigma, maybe. Basically where, you know, women get together around a cup of coffee or have a book club together or whatever, but they're like, you know, they'll sit across the table face to face and have a conversation about life. And men, you know, are wired to be like shoulder to shoulder and working on a car together or some project or
Jesse French
Sanding around the grill together, right? Like
Cody Buriff
Right, doing a thing, you know, and that's you know, and I actually think that's false. I think there's maybe I shouldn't say 100% false. There's some reality to it. And I think that has been our escape hatch as men. From that deep desire and ache and and frankly pressure even. I think the, you know, I'm gonna settle with the side by side looking at some meat on a grill.
type conversation or the looking at the engine bay of a car type conversation. I think we actually ache for the knowing and being known that's only possible when you're actually looking at each other and talking about real things. You know, and maybe that's around a fire. You don't actually have to be staring into each other's eyes across a, you know, a a latte or something. But we actually can have those conversations too. Yeah. They're not they're not feminine.
Jesse French
because
No, they're human, right? Yeah. And so I totally agree. And I even just as you're talking about that, I'm thinking through like the gathering around a fire where like I'm there and someone else is listening to me speak, and it's just simply like looking at my face, tracking with me, like engaged, present. Not even not we're not even to words yet, right? But just like the body language of like, man, I'm with you and I'm
present and what you have to say matters. Even that piece we long for and are is also like, is that possible? Right. Like again, the stigma or the stereotype is like, we don't do that. That's too risky. But that's what you're saying, right? Is like to enter in the space of brotherhood, that type of interaction is what is needed, right? Is where that relationship can then be built. Even just, and we haven't even talked about like words and things like that, but just that simple
Simple shift I is a really, really important one that you make.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, it's good. Hm.
Jesse French
Cody, what are some of the other like I'm not trying to get to, you know, the five steps to brotherhood in in two days type of thing, but I wonder like what are some of the contrasts between like buddies and brothers that just can help us begin to like maybe reorient ourselves or begin to say, okay, here's a vision of what could be possible in in my friendships with other men that actually go a little bit deeper.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, well I think, you know, as guys, if if I'll just speak straight to the listener, you know, if you can set back for just a second and survey the men that you're connected with in your life. Survey your your friends as you might label them, you know. And there's probably three different guys. There's well, hopefully there's three different guys. There are probably buddies, as we've talked about. Those are guys that you enjoy, you might enjoy spending time with even, but they don't really know you.
Necessarily. And then there's hopefully a category of men, and maybe you haven't even thought about this yet, but there's a category of men that are like, okay, potential brothers. Right? They're guys who okay, that guy seems like he's mature. Like he has some courage. He's probably trustworthy. You know, maybe I could go a little deeper with that guy. You know? So there's buddies, there's potential brothers, and then, you know.
Given the time and energy and and investment of your life into each other, there are actual brothers. And those are the guys who have permission to tell you the truth, you know, that either you can't even see necessarily. They'll walk with you through the really heavy stuff in your life and you'll walk with them through their heavy stuff. And so I think if if we can step back and kind of survey and see like, okay, what's true in my life? Do I have buddies? Do I even have anybody that I'm connecting with in any way?
You know. No? Okay, well let's start there at least. Square one, at least get that, you know, get some time overlapping with another dude in some way, right? And then you kinda have to go on the hunt for which men might be safe, which men might be trustworthy, which men might be mature enough that I could have a deeper conversation with. Which guy am I willing to maybe take a risk with? Yeah.
Jesse French
Yeah, yeah, that's where we're.
Yes. Because I think what you're getting at, Cody, which is really important, is because of the risk in pursuing brotherhood, right? Like, that's a privileged thing, right? So it is not just, man, we're gonna throw the net as wide as we can and whoever comes back type of thing. It no, what you're actually saying is like, if I'm willing, if I'm going to take the risk of offering my own heart and my own honesty to someone, there needs to be a sense of like, is this person.
Safe? Are they trustworthy? Right. Cause I think too, and I think Jesus' life models this. There's a limited number of folks, right, that have access to that type of relationship, as it makes sense, right? That's not, you know, we see him with Peter, James, and John, which I would say there's deeper. There's a delineation there, right? Like there's there's a level of depth there. And so I think you're wisely inviting us to think about if we're going to pursue this, is who are we willing to actually pursue that with? And to be
Honest and sober around around that.
Cody Buriff
Yeah. No, that's good. I love how you just brought out how Jesus kind of shows that to us and how he did things. It's like Peter James John probably knew him better than some of the other disciples. You know, probably a little better than Judas. You know?
Jesse French
Right. And I think to that point too, one of the interesting things I think in about in scripture that we I think get a lens into that dynamic between him and those three is in the Garden of Gethsemane, right? And what is Jesus' invitation to those three? He says, My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me. So I think that's is this wonderful.
Cody Buriff
Yeah.
Jesse French
Wonderful example of brotherhood. Here Jesus is like bearing his soul, right? I'm overwhelmed to the point of death. I'm not just taking 500 milligrams of suck it up and white white knuckle it through. Jesus saying, I have this need to the three of them. Come and be with me. Mm-hmm. Right? Like he's not saying, Hey, come fix this. He's just like, I need you to be with me. And I think at a simple level, that's also what brotherhood is, right? To not be alone.
Cody Buriff
Keep watching.
Jesse French
In the place of anxiety, of pain, right? Jesus is saying, like, come be with me.
Cody Buriff
Yeah. It's possible.
Jesse French
It is. And isn't that interesting to like continue looking at that story and how do they respond? It is possible. And how do they respond? They fell asleep. They fell asleep.
Cody Buriff
It's true. It's true. We are human. And I think that's probably worth just saying. It's like, yeah, in the process of going about, you know, finding brothers and building brotherhood, it's like we're gonna fail each other. And what does the enemy want us to do? He wants us to believe, well, that screwed up. That wasn't Yep, exactly.
Jesse French
What happens? Yeah.
Cody, as as you think about, you know, this conversation and you know, you offered some helpful framing of like, okay, who are some potential brothers, just even some orienting to that reality? Where else does your mind go? Again, not in the formula, but in the pursuit of for a man who is aware of his ache for more, like what other curiosities or invitations might you have for him that might be listening?
Cody Buriff
Yeah, I think it's probably important. I'll just say a couple of things, all right? I I think it's probably important that he tunes into that, Ake. So if you have a little bit of loneliness that you're able to sense and maybe you haven't tuned fully into it, check in with that. And let that be true. It's not weakness, right? It's normal human need for connection. And if it's missing, you're gonna feel it. And so let yourself feel it. That's not a thing to like avoid a feeling.
And then I think that there's probably a point of action that needs to happen in your life. And it's we are all in different spaces or, you know, contexts of needing to take some action in our lives in this area towards brotherhood. Whether we have brothers or not, you know, we need to be moving towards those men. And so I think there's a couple things I'd say practically, like real practically. One, like there is a book that Chris Bruno wrote called
Brotherhood primer. That's probably if you have a group of guys that they're kind of in the potential brothers space. They're men who you're like, okay, I I I might be able to trust this guy. I might be able to take a risk with that guy. You know, they're not the like rando off the street kind of dude or or whatever. They're men that you might you think you could probably respect. and so you would basically to do that, you're gonna go gather a couple of guys together and go through the book together.
Jesse French
Mm-hmm.
Cody Buriff
And there's more we could say about that, but that's one thing. that's one way to kind of jumpstart the process of building brothers and starting a a brotherhood group, utilizing the Brotherhood primer. I think there's another real simple thing that we're gonna offer guys in the Growth Collective, which is our online community, for the next couple of months, we're gonna post up a weekly prompt. Think of it like a brotherhood challenge, a text challenge where we're gonna prompt you.
with a thing that you can text to another guy or a couple of guys to help move that ball down the road for yourself. And so look for that in there. If if you're a member of the Groove Collective, check it out. If you're not, what are you waiting for?
Jesse French
Yeah.
Cody Buriff
Those are some like real little like practical things we're gonna offer.
Jesse French
Yeah, those are great, Cody. I mean, the primer is again more we could say about that, but a just a fantastic, deep, well crafted resource for that. And excited about the resource in the collective that you just talked about. Cause I think the heart behind that is obviously not these are five steps to brotherhood and without any hassle. But it is saying, look, like in order you said it well, there is a point of action, right? There is a point of like I'm willing to pursue and go after this.
And I think that resource will be practical, be helpful. It's not like, hey, bear your bury your soul and and a text to 30 guys. Of course not, right? But it's it is a practical but intentional invitation, I would say, to counter the inertia of the buddies world. Like that is, I would say that's the natural tendency that we have. that's again what was modeled for us. That's the easy default way of connecting and relating.
And so what we're we're trying to say is like can that be countered and can we actually pursue some depth in some some easy but intentional ways that actually opens up something else for it to be possible in our relationships.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, totally. I think I'd end, Jesse, with with just saying like we were made for connection. As men, we were made to actually have relationship with other guys, to know other men, to be known by other men. We were made to reflect the face of God to each other and help us, you know, we can't see our own faces, so help us see see our own glory and and walk in that. And there is an opposition to that.
That is going to keep you disconnected and lonely and on your own and believing that that is all that's possible for you. And so it's not. There is way more possible. And it's good. And that's a lot of what we're trying to do in Restoration Project is help guys move out of that inertia of isolation and into connection.
Jesse French
Yeah, and I would say this as we do in Cody, like, I think I know the answer, but I wanna ask it anyways. You began talking about these three spaces of restorative men, of their identity as a beloved son of God, as a brother with other men and as a father and bringing their fathering energy to the world. Cody, what happens if or what might you say to the listener who's like, hey man, the brotherhood space of it, like other men are too risky.
Other men, I have too long of a list of things that why that has gone poorly. I'm tracking with you on my identity as a beloved son of God and I want to bring my strength and my tenderness, my fathering energy to those around me. I'm tracking with you and I'm I'm all in on those two, but the brotherhood side of it's like, I'm out. what thoughts might you have?
Cody Buriff
Yeah.
Feels like that could be a whole nother podcast. I think my f initial my initial response is I'm sorry.
Jesse French
Yeah.
Cody Buriff
There's some pain there. There's some real pain there. And and it's we're not asking you to deny that or just smooth that over, forget about it, or or whatever. I think that's a thing. And I'm sorry. That sucks. I think there's also like on the flip side, there is a reality that I don't think we can heal those wounds that were given to us by other people on our own. You know, we say what was broken in relationship is healed in relationship.
You'll hear that kind of tossed around restoration project. And so we actually need men. We need brothers in our lives who know our stories, who can speak into our lives, remind us of our identity as son, because we're not able to do that for ourselves. You know, and and the pushback might be, well, I have Jesus, I have the Holy Spirit, I have God, you know, and He's gonna remind me of who I am. And it's like, well, great. And how does he like to do that?
Nine times out of ten, it's not actually reading the Bible where that happens. It's actually he speaks through other men and other people in our lives, you know, not just men, women too, but he speaks through others into our lives. And men, brothers, have a particular role to play in our relationship with the Lord, in our relationship with ourselves, in the way that we bring ourselves to the world that.
Can't happen another way. It doesn't happen another way. And so Yeah.
Jesse French
Yes, well said. These are not siloed identities or siloed spaces. They are braided together.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, very braided together. Very dependent. Yeah.
Jesse French
Cody, thank you. Looking forward to yeah, the conversation ahead as we continue to unpack this unique and needed space of brotherhood. Thanks for the the chat today. Looking forward to what's coming down the road.
Cody Buriff
Yeah. Well thanks guys for listening. It's good to be with you today. Jesse, good to be with you. And we'll see you next time. Take care.