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Alison Geskin talks with some of the most successful leaders from around the globe. She discovers what they're doing, why they're doing it, and what impact they've made.
Dan most people know you, as the title of counselor, but today we wanna know about the person. So I wanna ask you this. When you hear the word leadership. What's the first thing that comes to your mind? Not as a politician, but as a human. When you hear leadership.
well, thanks for having me. It's uh, my pleasure. Um, we already talked about Mondays being a beautiful day outside, but maybe not my favorite day of the week. But as far as the, uh, what you had mentioned, I'm still getting used to the term counselor. It's going on almost my fourth year, but I'm always just Dan, my.
If you go back further, then I was Danny, anybody, Danny, family or uh, relatives. So, um, when it comes to leadership. Obviously this is a big role now in, in politics and government, but I think if you go back further, um, I, I think we'll get into it. I did start a company 25, 30 years ago and then, you know, always, always, obviously there's some leadership qualities you need there to lead and do hire and, uh, and we're cooperatively with people.
And if I wanna go back even further, I guess my funny story was once, uh. In trouble. My dad was the principal of the high school or vice principal of the high school I grew up in Smaller. In your high school, you went to high school when your dad was the principal vice principal? Yes. The Discip three boys and you know, all of us MLAs were there as well, but he, I was a junior high school.
I think you get dropped off on the bus. Mm-hmm. Then you have to stay in school. 'cause you're from the, I lived on a farm, but we did, you know, the four of my, my buddies, a team of four or five guys, we escaped, went to the store, got candy and stuff and come back. And the, the moral of the story is, is that the vice, the principal of the junior high school took us down to see the, my dad.
'cause it was a, a shop day. And, and anyways, I'm talking a long story, but he said, uh. Your son. He's the one, he's the leader of this group. He's the, so that was my first leadership role being the leader of my little gang of rascals. But we were just kids. But, uh, anyway, just an amusing, a anecdote of leadership, but that was my first time I heard it being said that I was a leader.
You got it Earmarked. by shenanigans your crew. I love it. Uh,
sometimes you just have to, you know, bend the rules.
Listen, I know that you've lived in Calgary for over two decades, and when you think about Calgary and what you've come to know and what you've come to love, what are the values that stand out most to you?
And then how have they influenced how you lead?
Well, Calgary is just, the city itself is one of the nicest, most beautiful cities on the planet because of its entrepreneurial spirit, the leadership. I mean, just what this city has done, uh, for the world, just not in leadership of, uh, energy. I love that it's not just the energy of oil and gas or renewable energies, but it's a positive entrepreneurial spirit and everywhere you go, and I think one of my joys of.
Being an elected position is I get to meet a lot of these leaders, the people that have built this city. Yeah. Uh, with just big, massive companies that just worked hard, entrepreneurial spirit. And I think that's what Calgary is, uh, has always liked about it. It just has that optimism and that, uh, you know, you know, breath of fresh air.
Just, I, I love Calgary.
We're kind, we're kind of mavericks, aren't we?
A little bit. Yeah. And I think we should embrace that. Yes. And just keep pushing that. And, uh, you know, we've had, uh, Ralph Klein I think was one of my heroes in the old days as a mayor of Calgary, and then as a province. And the same thing, a bit of a maverick and, you know, straight talk,
common s sach
and, uh, you know, not just a Yahoo attitude, but just a get her done type of spirit.
And I think that's kind of what Calgary embraces. Yeah.
I love that. I love that. What, um, outside of, outside of policy or outside of politics, what's one thing that you think that most people get wrong about leadership?
outside of politics? Well, I guess you, you can have bad leaders out there. Yeah.
And in politics sometimes, unfortunately. You end up with, you know, the cream does not always rise to the top because there's such a thing as vote splitting. You've seen a lot of different cases where maybe the very best candidate didn't win, uh, maybe because of a vote split, maybe because of external factors.
The most recent example of that would be some of like Pierre Poll. You know, he was, uh, you know, ahead by huge margins. The country was just begging for change after 10 years of liberal policies that were extremely unpopular, extremely unpopular. Prime minister, I fall into that, that group was not happy at all.
Then all, all of a sudden, we have a, uh. An external factor, like the president of the United States talk, talking a tariff war, doing things for his country that affect ours, and then boom, all of a sudden it turns everything upside down and we end up with a leader that I think, and I hope I'm wrong.
Mm-hmm.
I'm cautiously optimistic, but I think it's gonna be just a lot more of this same, where we're going to see a lot more taxation, a lot more spending, and inflation and a lot of just, bad policies. So sometimes leadership.
It does. It does. It does. let's talk a little bit about, you grew up on a farm.
So good farm values, good farm values outside of cameras. How did that environment shape your work, shape, your ethics, your sense of responsibility and, and even frankly, your idea of success because you, you've been success, you've been successful in multiple different arenas. So, so far in, in, in your, in your young life.
Well, thank you. There's failures in there with every success. There's a failure. That's how you learn.
That is how you learn.
Yeah. But the farm, yeah, and it comes without saying. You have, you learn work ethics. It just was taken, you know, for granted. I just can't. It boggles the mind. Sometimes when I see kids working age, sitting at home or even then into their twenties and thirties, still living with their parents, I know there's affordability issues, but I was expected before that bus came at seven o'clock that you were out and you did your chores.
Yeah. And
there was always the chores. And then when you got back off, you know, back home, there was always, uh, work to do if your parents said, you know, get out there and mow that lawn, or get out there and, you know. Bring in a chicken and chop its head off because the, that's what we're having for supper.
Yeah. yeah, you learn it's a different, uh, a different way of upbringing, but I have never met, very rarely not met somebody from a, that farm background that wasn't a hard worker. And if you're going succeed in life, again, if you're sitting on a couch and complaining, I mean, there's jobs out there. There always has been.
And I worked, you know, while I was going to school, I always had a job. Uh, when I was gonna college, I had a job. It's, uh, you know, hard work is, uh. You gotta embrace that. And then, and the sooner you do that, the better. So at a young age, growing up on a farm that, uh, I, I embraced that as, you know, one of the best times of my life for sure.
Did you have an animal farm or did you have like a grain farm? What kind of farm did you grow up on?
So, totally mixed use with, like I said, my dad was a teacher, vice principal. Yep. But we had a, a. Cows, chickens, cats, dogs, a few horses, a little bit of, a little bit of everything.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, you know, like quarter section, all that.
Not big to to to farm that. And then he bought like the, a business in town, a chicken hatchery. And you, my dad was always entrepreneurial too, so there was chores to do there as well. But, uh, those ones I actually got paid for stocking shelves and stuff like that. But, uh, so it was a bit of everything. Some farm boys, they could, uh, there's a.
They're big, big, huge operations. The life of the small town, uh, the smaller farmer is mm-hmm disappearing rapidly, where it's just bigger and bigger operations that just keep gobbing up the land. And it's, uh, it's a little sad to see, to be successful, to live off of like a, you know, half a section, even a section of land nowadays, and farm it.
And uh, and that's your sole source of, uh, working income. And you don't see that very often anymore.
No, you don't. It's a little bit of a lost art, isn't it?
It is. And it's uh, it's stressful for the farming, you know, community for, for sure. But it's all the different pressures in the world. But, that's another thing.
What really brings me to Calgary, 'cause we're pretty much, we have a lot of different things going on here, technology, industry, agriculture, but it's a big one though. We've got the oil and gas, but the ag industry and our, uh, stampede and are embracing the rodeo.
Mm-hmm.
More to it. I mean, people come from all over the world.
And one of the fun things I like doing is, is that there's aggie days before that, or just when you go into the different pavilions where you'll see all the young kids with their animals and their horses or their cows and the four HI mean, that's just, uh, yeah. Did you do
four H when you were a kid?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Uh, I love tell that I
spent all year, uh, little heifer to get trained so you could lead it around on a rope and it was perfect. And ran away at our state, at our town rodeo and took off the great grounds and all the rodeo grounds. And, uh, so I didn't win any prizes, but, uh, yeah.
But yeah, yeah, no, four H was, uh, was fun.
And for those that are listening that have never had two, teach a cow to follow a lead, it is not as easy as it might look.
Nope, it's not a dog.
A completely different brain. They don't think like us. You wanna go one way. They wanna go another way.
They're going the other way.
Sounds like you have some experience with that.
Just a little bit. I have, um, I'm privileged to say that I've, uh, straddled both sides of the world in terms of being city life, so born and raised in the city, but I have family that are fifth generation farmers, uh, near Calgary.
So in Troche, three hills, sundry old.
Yeah, well that's great grain farming area at harvest time. I mean, I was still, like I said, I have relatives that you get out and you drive the grain truck and you go till all hours of the night and up in the morning and you're hoping you can dodge bad weather. Uh, but it's, it's a fun time.
It's a real community type of thing too. Everybody helps out, the neighbors help out and family gets together and we're, we're missing a lot of that in the big city. Sad to say that's something we do miss, but uh, again, just never forget. The people in the smaller towns and the farmers that are out there, because they feed us.
They do. They do. And it's so important. So important. Tell me a little bit about, so growing up in Camero, being on being on the farm, and then founding McLean Golf. How does farm and golf make sense?
Well, it was a bit of a story, um, but. Genesis of McLean Golf worked for 10 years. I worked at a GM dealership in, uh, with task.
When you start off on the floor as a salesperson, you work your way up to assistant manager, manager, run the used car department, run the business office. You learn every aspect because that's what, if I'm gonna do something, I wanna get to the top. Mm-hmm. Eventually an old dang place, but you have to be born into a car dealership, pretty much their family.
It just seems that way again, where it's just a whole bigger, you know, Wheaton has 20, 30 of them. So when the opportunity came that I was ready and didn't get. A branch office. I opened my own and that did it differently. Instead of, uh, in a car dealership, you'd have new used parts sales fleets. I did it with golf cars.
And so I bought, uh, some land busy of two, uh, major highways, 13 and 21 outside of Edmonton, bought 40 acres. Put up a shop, put up some horse trailers, some stock trailers, some flat decks. But the golf cart were the ones that went up. They flew off the shelf like crazy. Everybody wanted one for their farm or for the campground.
And then I had to find a place to input, bring these in and find a supplier, which was out of the Pacific Northwest. And they were the large, easy go golf cart distributor. Easy. CGO is the number one golf car in the world. They're one of the biggest ones in the North America. And they said, you know, we'd love for you.
You're buying hundreds and hundreds of used cars. Why don't you be our distributor up in Canada? And I said, fantastic. And I said, in Vancouver, of course, because we're in Portland. I said, well, you know, I'm a thousand miles away from there. Americans don't know our geography at all.
Not at all. Not at all. I have friends in Toronto.
Do you know them? No.
But when they offered me Vancouver, I said, that's fantastic, but I want all of Alberta, all of bc which the Calgary company had the distribution rights for all that territory. Uh, a big company here in, uh, Oak Creek Golf and Turf, they're called. They're, they're huge and they do golf and, uh.
Irrigation and turf equipment, but I got the rights away for Easy Go. And then we just built that from there. We had to open a few locations, but we did it again with parts service fleet sales, to the golf courses. You know, they buy a hundred at a time. Uh, spruce Meadows was one of my key accounts. We started putting cars in there where they used to rent, and then we had a huge rental fleet that we.
You know, with, uh, if you ever saw big trucks going down the road, double decker trucks or whatever, full of golf cars, that was probably me. We supplied the Olympics in 2010. That was a huge bid. That took two years, but, you know, a couple hundred, 250 units, we had to get of all sorts of sizes all across, you know, Whistler, everywhere.
Incredible. So anything that, the lake, you want to have a buggy that's all lifted up with the big stereo and big wheels, we could do that too.
So
it was fun. A lot of work. And then in the winter, a little slow. So then you've gotta manage your revenue. You learn how to budget, um, 'cause you just can't go out and tax somebody, just bring, increase your income.
I mean, you have to, uh, you learn a thing or two about budgets and working. And 20 some years of that, when we sold it and I was getting bored, I said, well, let's just get into politics. Because I've always loved politics. I've always followed it, you know. Whether it's uh, global, national, international politics, civic politics, but you can only yell at the TV for so long when you have to then just say, I'm going to go do something myself.
That's where we are today.
That's where you are today. When was the moment in sort of that trajectory when you thought to yourself, I'm actually building something bigger than just me?
Oh, it's thrilling. You know, it's frustrating, but it can be totally thrilling when you, when you actually are putting your finger on the lever.
And the favorite example for that is what I call the ridiculous bag bylaw, where the city had instituted a bylaw where that you drove through the McDonald's and you didn't get a bag. You. Sense or ask for napkins at a restaurant or just it, everything about it was just, why did
we do that? Why did we do that?
That was so weird. Yeah.
He weird. He hated it. I voted against it when the got passed because I was not in the council majority, but fought hard behind the scenes and of course public outcry has, its, has its impact. Mm-hmm. And we had to bring it back for reconsideration to have that scrapped. But I would, I led that one and fought that one hard and we won.
Yeah. And so I can say, man, that that felt really, really good. You did something. And uh, yeah, I hope people remember that every time they get a pap of paper back.
Yeah.
So that was a victory and other times you lose so, but, uh, it is, uh, it's part of the game.
Very much so. Well, let's talk a little bit about the game.
Let's talk a little bit about stepping into the public life. So what. Made you, you walk away from successful business, you said you, you said you got bored and really decided to enter what I believe to be one of the most publicly scrutinized, like nobody wins, you're never gonna make everybody happy.
Arenas, which is politics.
It wasn't so much forward. See, business evolves too. You can look, you know, sometimes you put your passion into it after 10, 15 years. And in my case, the impetus of where things changed was when the markets crash in 2000 8, 9, 10, and all the, and if you're bringing up all your. Yeah.
Product golf carts, all, all, every golf cart's pretty much made in Augusta, Georgia. And you're dealing on their financing and their, these big global companies were all going under
mm, killing
plans. The bank stopped landing and, and you're in the middle of a huge expansion and so you really had to do a course.
Correct. And so, I became a little disillusioned after that. Uh, and then by the time, um, oh, I'm not a young guy, so, you know, we did, we did fine. And it was time to look at something, do doing something different. You know, we had sold the company and this was always my passion, so maybe I'll back that up a bit.
It's something I think I always wanted to do.
Yep.
When as a young kid. But it's a tough business. Mm-hmm.
Like you were
saying, for young people with young families. My quick story there, I tell it often. My father ran for the, uh, federal government for the nomination, for the progressive conservatives background.
As a teenager, he lost. Really? In your blood? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Clearly in your blood. It's, uh, whether it's a, like I said, a Prime Minister or president or I'd like to think I've read a lot of books on it, but my father lost the nomination by 20 votes. I was a young kid, I was crying and he says, son, it's for probably for the best.
I have my career. I have my lovely wife, my beautiful family. I've got, uh, the farm things that maybe later on when I, you know, a little older, a little more experienced, I might do it again. That stuck with me because I've seen too many people with, uh, you know. Lives can be ruined with the scrutiny or you could, uh, you know, you've gotta stop and maybe you're only in politics for one or two terms, and that could really mess up a career trajectory.
So to me, the timing was right, something I always wanted to do. Excellent. And then after, like you, you're 55 and you say, okay, well that's, I've done this chapter, this chapter, kids are growing up. Let's, now let's try politics, sell the company. Uh, I took about a year off and kind of was, uh, was down south the winter anyways, and that's where I got bored just by taking the winter off.
Can you imagine doing this? Oh, you, my father always said, you retire, you expire, you've gotta do something. So
something
I really enjoy takes a lot of time and energy and, uh, yeah, it's, uh, and I'm afforded, uh, a lot of the ability to do that because of, yeah. Now we look forward.
Yeah. What surprised you the most, or still surprises you the most about the difference between political leadership and business leadership?
Are there differences? Do you experience the differences?
Well, the biggest one is. It's a business leadership. You're playing with your money. Mm-hmm. And the government, I'm paying with the taxpayers money you give, I have an office budget, I have a staff, like I'm looking after my ward 13 is over a hundred thousand people.
So it's like, you know, I'm a mayor of one of the largest cities in the, in the province, but you have to look after all the needs, the safety, the sidewalks, and you know, so you have a staff of three that I usually work with. but. Even myself, my paycheck and their paycheck is just through an office budget, a taxpayer's budget.
So I think a lot of leaders in the provincial, they lose track of that.
Mm-hmm. They can.
They spend, because it's not their money and that's why you see it, the bottom line, while we spend a little too much on that, or they'll spend things on frivolous things. Whereas I'm a very frugal. With my Scottish heritage.
And so when it came down to a truck, so we've got a bunch of trucks and this one's getting a little older, do I go buy a brand new one? No, I'm gonna push it a little bit further or refurbish it. Do I get the top line truck with the leather and the sunroof and all the nicest possible top line, uh, a trailer equipment.
No, I'm gonna find the best deal on that. And you'll see government, it's always the best and it's always like they're not spending their own money. That's just so important that the difference between the public and private sector.
So important. So important. If you had to finish this sentence, what, how would you finish it?
Ready Leadership is.
you put me on the spot. I don't know if we're in it. It's, it's a good question. Leadership is, leadership is responsibility. At the end of the day, it's 100 responsibility that when I, if you make a bad decision, then you're impacting not just yourself or say your employees, but you're impacting, you know, maybe in this case a whole city or a whole ward.
When we passed blanket rezoning. Across the city, and that was the most contentious item that's come to City Hall. I think in history with weeks of public hearing, thousands of people writing in, hundreds of people showing up saying, I do not want this. There's gotta be a better way. And our leadership said, Nope, we're gonna stuff it down your throats.
I don't care what you say, we're not listening and we're gonna do it anyways. And it's impacted the city. Broadly. Mm-hmm. And so all I hear about is this. You'll see a picture on social media and it's a sixplex. Where there used to be one house, but it's sixplex with six basement suites. Now, in the back of that building there is 12 times 3 36 bins.
'cause every person, every place gets their own three bins. Mm-hmm. Garbage bins, recycling, compost. And so now it's just a gong show in the back alley. Then there's, there's just everywhere you go, there's hundreds of these bins, garbage trucks, can't get in, in and out of this, you know, there's parking. That's a consequence of leadership.
We ditched our responsibility to the citizens all just because we thought it was probably better. The developers would make more money. The city makes more money off of taxes and to hell with, so that was one big failure, from what I see as leadership. Mm-hmm. And I can turn that around 'cause there is an election coming up in October and if we elect new leadership, well, and if I had my druthers and I'm here with some like-minded counselors, then we would overturn that and uh.
Be responsible with that position of power that you elected us to, to do. And it's so complex because every decision that you make, it's like pulling a ball on a ya on, on a, on a, or pulling a string off of a ball of yarn.
Well, exactly. Look at that. Just again, the the blanket rezoning.
Yeah.
And you see that maybe is not a bad idea because it does belong, belong in some areas next to a transit station or in a big wide corner where there's lots of access in and out.
But then the ball of string then, because you've made it, so it used to have to come to council through a land use, and then we could look at it, we could debate it, people could come to public hearing.
Mm-hmm. But now that
it's blanket, it could happen in the middle of a block, deep in the middle and all of a sudden where there was a really bunch of beautiful trees and uh, you know, it just knocked down and there goes your shade, there goes your parking.
And uh, this old lady McGill, who loves her garden. Is dead now.
Yeah. Because
then she's got people looking out the window at her, in her living room. So, uh, yeah, it has consequences.
Oh, oh, oh. And, you know, you have to make decisions that are not gonna, not going to please anybody, like any, like any leadership position does.
So how do you stay grounded, Dan, when you know that you have some people disagreeing with you? You and sometimes really loudly and sometimes really rudely.
You better grow a thick skin if you're gonna get into politics and it just can't let it t bother you. Mm-hmm. Um. Because when everybody that says they don't read their own reviews or they don't look at the comments section, well good on you if you do.
But most of, I mean, I do you wanna see the good the bad and the ugly and some people can be straight up rude and there's some that are just straight trolls and you don't. It just that's water off a duck's back because they're the people that complain about everything. You can't please them for anything, but you better have strong convictions and a strong and a thick skin.
Mm-hmm.
Because
that's what it requires now, maybe, uh, more now than ever. I don't know how we changed that, the genie's out of the bottle, but here's where we're, where we're at. Censoring people is not the solution 'cause that's been brought forward where they can bring in rules and people can't say this online or you're not allowed to say that word.
Politicians shouldn't be able to say that. I'm very much a free speech absolutist unless you're coming out with true hate.
Yeah.
Child pornography, things like that. But if you wanna come on and call me a bunch of nasty words because. Um, I'm calling a social disorder and you think I'm a bad guy. Um, you take the good with the bad.
Totally, totally. There's a lot more
good than bad is what I'm getting so far. So I'm gonna keep going the way I'm going.
Yes, yes. And it's so amplified because you're such a public figure.
Well, that's the other thing. You could stay in the background, not make any noise. One counselor told me he is not running this time around, but he says, uh.
If you just, you know, stay quiet, you go along to get along, things will be a lot easier around here for you when he's talking about.
That's like a good leadership though.
Yeah, and you'll get, just get reelected over and over and over again. You'll see that you can't.
Oh, but
that's just, I just can't, it's not in my DNAI can't do that.
No.
No. Well, let's talk about good decisions. How do you personally define good decisions in a leadership role? Is it about results? Is it about principles? Is it about public approval? How do you make, how, how do you make, um, good decisions and how do you advocate for good decisions being made?
Good question.
'cause it's a bit of all of those things in that little mix that you put forward. Uh, the first thing, obviously you have to have some, you know, core ethical background or moral ethics. I mean, I think, uh, you know, most people I would put in that category. I. You don't just do things just to get reelected, or sometimes you can put out a, you know, social media posts sometimes just to, you know, inflame the situation or to get some responses, and I think we're all guilty of that.
Mm-hmm.
Key, key thing you have to do and when you get your direction and to make your decisions is from the people. It's so simple. You just listen and so you have to really go, uh, you, you read your emails. I mean some, uh, I've heard some counselors don't even respond to their emails. Um, 'cause they don't want to put up with the heat on some of the issues.
We respond to every single one of them. So when I walk in, I was at a community picnic this weekend. Mm-hmm. And we have a little, uh, booth out there and a band and it says, you know, community associations are the best. They're all volunteers. And I go to a lot of them. And you just listen to the people.
Everybody wants to talk to you and I at a lot of events and they will tell you what they think and then you take your direction from the majority. And that's really has to be, even if at the very core I think you don't, maybe this decision's I. Wrong. You have to listen to the people. Yeah. It's just, that's what guides me.
I love that. I love that. What does, uh, let me ask you about accountability, because you are a big proponent for holding yourself and others accountable in as much as you can. what does accountability look like for you, not just publicly, but privately as well? Like, who checks you? Who do you trust to tell you the truth in your world?
Well, accountability comes at the polls. I mean, at, at the end of the day, that's the true accountability where people are just aren't gonna elect you 'cause they don't like your decisions that you've made. Mm-hmm. I think sometimes some people, like in this case we have like half accounts not running again because I think they know they would, the accountability, they, they get trounced and so they're just gonna maybe avoid that.
Uh, so you. That's the true arbiter of how well you're doing. Yes. Is if you get reelected. So I mean, that's what democracy's all about. But at the same time, you going back to the leadership core, you are still elected as a leader. And sometimes you do have to make tough decisions that of course not everybody's going to agree with and what you think.
'cause you, we may have a lot more information regarding this subject than, well in most all cases I do than compared to say, um. You know, they want to go public. So there's, there's tough decisions that have to be made, but mm-hmm. Generally I side with the people. How many times, 'cause I know I did this to you 'cause I had the courage to come up to you at an event.
'cause I've been following you for a long time. Uh, had the courage to come up and shake your hand and say thank you so very much for how you show up and how you lead. how many times have you heard. A constituent that's not yours, but a Calgary constituent come to you and say, I, I wish I could move to Ward 13.
'cause I know, I know I said that. How many times do you hear that? Probably? Uh,
I, I, I'm not lying a lot. I get it a lot. And in our emails too, because we do, I respond to everything, you know, maybe not. Its not, it's my team or we keep everybody in the loop. So I think I've got a pretty good pulse. Uh, I'm downtown all the time now, like I'm a farm boy.
I've come. I've lived in the suburbs and that's who I represent. But um, I know this city really, really well. And like you said, whether I'm in the northeast at a, uh, eat event or whether I'm down in the town, you know, at a Chinese cultural center, people are all the same. They just want better bang for their buck.
You know, that's they, they just feel their taxes are going up all the time and maybe theirs, their services, well, their taxes are going up, their surface services are going down. But I think the biggest one of all, and again, people just, they don't mind paying. Taxes. If we get the services and the city's getting better, but it's the public safety, the social disorder, and the approach that we're taking to that where this police seem to be handcuffed and not, you know, they don't have the laws of the support to do their job.
The province is really stepping up it up. Now this makes some changes, but I just. It's not acceptable to me for when I'm walking down the street and I've gotta step over. I don't care if it's human waste or needles or somebody that's barking at the moon. I don't know if they, they're generally harmless, but it's still just in a civilized, decent society that should not be allowed to happen.
And so that's, uh, that's what I hear a lot from the people. Uh, uh, love the fact that I'm standing up for that. So I hear a lot of that.
Oh, I wanna ask you, I, I want, I'd love to ask you this. You know, certainly as business leaders, one of the things that, drives a lot of really great folks nuts is the things that linger.
Sometimes it's really hard in larger organizations to make an impact. 'cause that's like, I've heard it, like, uh, described as, trying to steer the Titanic in a different way. Well, here you've got a much larger landscape, which is the city. How do you handle things that, uh, linger or that don't move as quickly as you want them to, or seem to be stuck in like the babble effect of conversation versus solutions?
How do, how, how, how do you temper the balance between the things that linger and, and moving towards a solution?
You know, that's a good point and uh, uh, one I've given a lot of thought to.
Yeah.
And for me it's, it's come down to the culture. It's just one word. The culture at City Hall and in governments in general is they're just a big bureaucracy and you've seen them double.
I. And like the last 10 years, it's an insane, I've seen over 2000 employees. I think we have, uh, you know, a 10, 15% increase in our full-time employees just as I've been here. That's a lot. And they're all getting paid a hundred some thousand dollars a year. So the, the, the culture is just in their own best interest of growth.
We know best and. That needs to change again, it's not even the tax and spend, the one big culture and it's leaning way, way far to the left where we're looking at every social issue. I can't fix climate change and the global temperature of the earth by raising my property taxes. That's not our, our purview.
We have police and safety and snow removal when we bring up all sorts of different, like I said, issues that are not in our wheelhouse
Yes. That we need
just to just get away from that. Even mental health and addictions, which is, uh, really important. That's a provincial gig. I mean, that's, they're downloading it onto us, but we're spending tens of millions of dollars on that as well.
Mm-hmm. It's the culture where they just, you know, you know how it is. If someone says, I'm gonna open up a, uh, an anti-racism committee. That maybe just views out and tells us all how racist we are. I don't think that's really helping the situation. And then it bonds into three or four different, IT iterations out of itself.
And a lot of these may be volunteer positions, but I just think government as a whole has been infected by what I would call the ideological far left issues. Some would call 'em woke. Mm evoke people hate you calling that. Mm-hmm. Sorry. That's kind of what it is. We're turning that around. Like you said, it's a big shift that's got to self-correct itself, but that would be one of my key goals is just working with administration and say, you have this big monolith of an administration bureaucracy.
Where can we streamline things and where can we get more focused on just the things that we can provide and, and just not keep. Adding and growing bigger and bigger and bigger
because we just become more sludgy. Not only as a become more sludgy as a city, it just becomes more burdensome as opposed to being able to move forward with progress.
Well, just in our planning, we want to build houses.
Yes. And it's
always, I mean, and so, but to get a development permit, you know, in the old days you talk to people and they, you know, 30, 60, 90 days, you know you're ready to go and build. You know, now sometimes it's a year or two, you know, that planner, it's uh, and we're really speeding.
You know, we're moving in the right direction, so I don't wanna be all negative all the time. Some of these processes are changed, but there's different levels from the head management and then there's directors, and then there's, you know, planners and there's just different levels and different files where I think we can maybe just say, I want, I.
Development permits out the door in, you know, 30, 60 days. Every, we could put caps and force the administration to do certain things. And the way it works is the city council, we give direction to administration.
Mm-hmm.
Administration, kind of, a lot of people, there's, there's a strong theory and some evidence that administration runs city council and it's supposed to be the other way around, but it's, you need council to be strong.
Lots of true leaders that go in and demand change, and that starts at the top.
It certainly does. It certainly does. Let's talk a little bit about, um, what surprised you the most, when it comes to leading a space full of compromising agendas? we, competing agendas. Competing agendas.
There's nothing wrong with compromise.
I mean, that's kind of the, the good deal they always say in the private sector is when nobody likes it. Yeah. You know, if I'm talking or I'm negotiating a deal and I'm, I had to give up this, but they had to give up that we met in the middle, then we're probably pretty good. So compromise is, is necessary.
Um, but again, we just. Not to harp too much on this exact city council we have right now, but people are looking, it's one of the, well, the most unpopular council in Mary we've ever had
ever, but it's
because it's been, it's been fractious. There's been one set on that side that has been unwilling to compromise.
It's only when the straw that broke the camel's back, like on the bag bylaw or the other one, was the, the, the Castle Canada Day fireworks, because it was deemed racist. And, you know, the Chinese love fireworks, first Nations, we all love fireworks. Um, and that took a public outcry.
Yes. And they were stubborn.
And they dug in. And they dug in until finally they said, oh, okay, we messed up here. And then they changed it. Now there's a few examples of that that goes around, but, we need more, more collaboration, more compromise. And again, I think that's, uh, this last council was. A little too ideological and they're a little too set in the ways, and they had a majority and so they kind of plowed through.
So, uh, we need to change that. Yeah.
In October. Yes, definitely, definitely. Tell me about a moment in the last couple years where you felt the weight of leadership and. Questioned if you were getting it right. I feel like you're, I I, I feel like the, um, the farm values have stuck with you for so long, so you probably have a, a great deal of self-reflection already in, in you.
What could I have done differently? What did, what did this look like? I should have done this. What, um, have you ever felt the weight of leadership and questioned yourself, and then how did you, how did you work through that? I.
Well, not, I don't look in the past very often and they always say, you know, don't spend too much time because you can't change it.
You know, you can reflect on it and try to do better. But I guess the one issue that is top of mind and I think really important, and we've talked about it a bit already today, what, what's just some of the social disorder and mental health and addiction? So there's a, the Sheldon Schumer Center
mm-hmm.
That's downtown and they're offering, you know, supervised consumption. Before that they were actually talking about safe supply. You actually giving, and they're doing this in bc here's some, here's some fentanyl, uh, or even at the Sheldon Schumer. And they say, well, it's here to watch you do your, so you don't overdose.
So there's so much we could talk about in this space. And maybe I'm talking about safety. People around that area don't like it being there.
Mm-hmm. But
it's finding the balance because a lot of these people are genuinely just good people that had some really severe mental health problems, maybe something in their family, some trauma.
Um, so. I, I always to balance that, that's the one thing where I question, I mean, because part of me just wants to go in and just sweep up the streets and put 'em all behind a door that locks and then give them their help. The province is working on a compassionate care because letting them just. Enabling them just to sit out in the street and say, Hey, taking away their rights isn't fair.
And I see that there's a lot of people that are just, you know, I talk to them, you know, there's some, some decent people here, but it's what is the right way? Is there too, am I, am I being too heavy handed on that? Or is maybe a little bit more of a compromise where, uh. You know, I'm the farm boy in me, just says there's no way in the world that you tell people it's okay to do drugs.
Yes. You,
you know, pot is legal, but I get tired of smelling that stuff everywhere I go. Mm-hmm. And then we encourage people that, okay, pot is legal, and then they just make it stronger and stronger all the time in the store. Mm-hmm. And then they go out the private sector, out in the, you know, the black market and it's even stronger 'cause they mix in the fentanyl and the uh, you know, the heroin.
I mean all these things that that's happening. It's just one of those ones is like, what's the right approach? Because I get it when people are very passionate with that issue and they'll come up and talk to me and think I'm a total asshole because I, I have no understanding or compassion and safe supply works and this is, uh, and uh, supervised consumption works.
And I'm like, okay, I'll listen and I will. So I wanna have an open mind, but in, uh, that's the toughest one right now. That's the one issue that's you're facing us right now in all these major cities and in a lot of different opinions. So, uh, yeah, that's what I think about the
most. Hmm. Has there been a moment where someone else's leadership taught you exactly what not to do?
And you're gonna tell me Yeah. There's something like our current, you know what, what's been good leadership? Yeah. Exemplary leadership. I told you I loved her whole client, but Premier Smith. Mm-hmm. The way she's standing up for this, uh, city and for our province and how eloquent she is and how she knows everything about every issue.
And I've had lots of conversations. I mean, that's impressive leadership. It is the opposite then what I've seen. Um. Be like would be the che provincially where everything is a dog whistle and everything is, it's just pure and utter arrogance. And I'm just gonna say that a lot. I don't care if it gets published.
'cause as a mayor, I think he was that way. Yeah. And then on city council, I've seen some leadership here as well where they just like, I know best. Mm-hmm. How dare you. Even if the people are so much against, uh, lend more landing, again, another project in Ward 11 in the city ca the big business. I mean, there's a lot of things I could talk about why, where that deal just stunk.
Yep.
And it was being pushed through anyways. And I'm not, I wonder why And it just, you're not representing your people, you're not representing, uh, the city itself. Like we have to really. Um, sometimes we're, again, whether it's an ideological bent mm-hmm. Or sort of pure arrogance that I know best. You know, it's just that, that's, I've seen enough of that and that's not, uh, and that's got, that's not good.
Do you think that, do you think that, uh, in with anything? Uh, I, I believe that power corrupts or has the ability to corrupt, but if you look at, um, someone like NCI who's a previous mayor of ours and now running for, uh. Leadership. Do you think he was always that way or do you or do you see growing into what he has become.
No, there's two sides to the coin there. And then I might have to leave here after this, but the, uh, I've seen some people that you do change, and even myself sometimes, I mean, it just, uh, you could say, well, hold on a bit here. Like, don't get too on, on your high horse. 'cause I mean, if that could be taken out from underneath you at any election or any point.
But, uh, and again, not to too, uh, because I don't wanna get, uh, judged. Then she's Hammer Slam Fest or Notley or whatever. I'm obviously leading to for the conservative side of things. But Rachel Notley, actually I didn't, I, I think she believed what she was saying. I. Yeah, she was an effective leader. She was passionate, she was smart.
And I actually, whether I disagreed or not, I thought she was a pretty damn good leader. Uh, if you go back and talk to people where, uh, where was a professor at Mount Royal, it seems like that attitude and opinions in high regard and themselves, it's kind of inconsistent. So I'll leave it at that. Where other people change, other will change.
You should be able to change with the, uh, with the pulse of the people. But, um. I'm, I'm seeing a big change now with, uh, for am Mayor EK was really one way now roles, and now all of a sudden it's changing around a little bit, so.
Mm-hmm. You
know, some people change, is it real or is it, uh, political? Oh, you could be the judge of that.
And that's where the call to leadership really matters. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Lightning round before I let you go. Ready? Ready, ready. One book or person? That has shaped you.
well, the book I always go back to and I'm not gonna say the Bible. That sounds like a really easy way to come out. I think Trump said that one time.
Nothing wrong with the Bible, my friend. Nothing wrong with it.
Oh, no, no. I've read the Bible. Uh, when I was a young kid, my mother gave me the first book, though, was the, uh, Stephen King, the stat. It was about a 1200 pager and it was deep and it was thick, and that one made a lasting impression. Uh. All of his books.
The other one was Leon Ris, uh, Exodus. It was talked about World War II and Exodus, the Jews, and the creation of the state of Israel. And Leon Ris is, all of his books are good, but, uh, yeah, I'm a avid reader, but those were two real big ones. I guess just to stand and then, uh, and Exodus,
what is something you would say to your 30-year-old self?
don't get married in 19.
And last but not least, Dan, Dan McClain, what's next for you? Business professionally or personally? What's next?
Uh, another term. I said I would do two terms regardless. You do not, uh, you know, I don't going, I I wouldn't do it. Probably I said it, I wouldn't do it third term, but get elected. Uh. In we're 13 if they'll have me and hopefully serve with a whole bunch of more like-minded people that we can, uh, turn this ship around.
So that's, uh, that's what's next and we're gonna hopefully do it.
Beautiful. Dan, thank you for your service. Thank you for your leadership. Thank you for being the man that you are and showing up, uh, for yourself and for your community. So on behalf of all Calgarians, we thank you.
Thank you, Alison. It was my pleasure.
Have a good day. Bye
for now. Bye-bye.