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Welcome to The Foster Friendly Podcast. We’re bringing foster care closer to home by sharing stories from the front lines. We're talking with former foster youth, foster parents and others who are finding unique and powerful ways to dramatically improve the experiences and outcomes for kids in foster care.
The Foster Friendly podcast is brought to you by America’s Kids Belong, a nonprofit that helps kids in foster care find belonging in both family and community.
Courtney (00:01.989)
Hello and welcome to the Foster Friendly podcast. Today we're talking to a pastor and as you know, pastors have a big role to play in our faith communities and it's encouraging when we see pastors extending their service beyond the doors of their church. Today we're joined by pastor, one of our newest foster friendly faith communities. He's also an adoptive dad and ministers to homeless people multiple times a week. Buddy Sampson and his wife Brooke moved to Durango, Colorado just over a year ago to plant Overland Church. They have five children.
one who was adopted from South Korea. Buddy has a heart for the homeless population and can often be seen walking around downtown inviting them to coffee. Buddy, welcome to the Foster Friendly Podcast.
Buddy Sampson (00:41.979)
Yeah, excited to be here. Thanks for having me on.
Travis (00:45.55)
Great to have you. Let's just dig right in. So your church, Overland Durango, officially launched on Easter Sunday. That's just a couple of months ago. And your church has already listed on the app as a foster friendly faith community. Buddy, why do you feel this is an important cause to look at from the church perspective?
Buddy Sampson (01:05.147)
Well, I think, you know, just to kind of get right to the meat of it all, first of all, I think there's a biblical mandate for the believer to care for the orphan. And even if that orphanhood is temporary, I think that the church is the place where the community ought to go to seek people who know that they have a commission from God to make sure the kids that are in that situation are well cared for.
Courtney (01:30.181)
you can keep your foot in that situation.
Buddy Sampson (01:33.371)
And maybe more importantly, even that the people who are in the church understand that caring for orphans is not optional. There is no such thing as a biblical community that says this is an area of our faith that we don't need to be concerned in. Other people will take care of that. And so, you know, again, I think we have a, from a pastor's standpoint, I think that the church has a biblical responsibility, having been commissioned to care for orphans, to...
Courtney (01:34.661)
more importantly, even that.
Courtney (01:42.789)
There's no such thing as a difficult community that says this is an area of our faith that we don't need to be concerned about. So from a pastor's standpoint, I think that the church has a...
how we've been conditioned to care for orphans, to make sure that we are equipped to do that really well, and that the community knows that that's something that we are actually about. Yeah, I love that, and I think I've heard a line, too, describing, you know, orphan is sort of an archaic word, we don't often use that anymore, but we definitely see that in scripture, like you're saying, and I've heard foster care describe orphans as believing, and that's kind of an interesting way to kind of phrase it. Interesting, yeah.
Buddy Sampson (02:01.627)
to make sure that we are equipped to do that really well and that the community knows that that's something that we are indeed passionate about. So.
Travis (02:10.03)
Yeah, I love that. And I think I've heard a line too describing, you know, orphan is sort of an archaic word. We don't often use that anymore, but we definitely see that in scripture, like you're saying. And I've heard Fos -Tekira described as orphans of the living. And that's kind of an interesting way to kind of phrase still that. So.
Buddy Sampson (02:26.459)
Interesting. Yeah. You know that is and yeah.
Courtney (02:28.901)
Definitely. Yeah, so to become a foster friendly faith community on our app, a church has to do two of three things. They need to teach on foster care, support foster care family or foster families, and or provide trauma sensitivity training. So what has your church done or what are they doing to meet those requirements?
Buddy Sampson (02:50.747)
Sure, well, I hope we're doing all three. And this is kind of funny because I almost wanted to respond with Courtney, I'll let you take this one. Considering that we go to church together, obviously, and started this church together. No, I think that I think you'll agree that when it comes to teaching, we want to be primarily a place that teaches from scripture and from the pulpit that this is something that we care about. And we want to teach in that regard. We then are equipped with people like you, obviously, to take it to the next level and teach about the.
Travis (02:59.31)
Haha.
Buddy Sampson (03:17.307)
You know, the practical ways to see this come to fruition, to recruit people, to have them engaged. And then, you know, I think about even what's going on this upcoming week with the mission team that's coming in to support us from Tennessee and how one of our service priorities was to make sure that we have meals, frozen freezer meals made for families, for foster families and families that are going to provide respite and things of that nature. And so.
I think we're definitely, we want to teach about its significance, about the need in this community. And obviously you and your family do that exceptionally well. We want to make sure that we are serving the community in whatever ways that we can in that regard. I know you've been pretty explicit about the fact that this is a unique part of the state of Colorado in terms of the number of children in need and the number of families available. And so I think making sure that we're trying to connect the people here to the reality of that need, I know something that I...
Courtney (04:03.653)
making sure we're trying to connect the people here to the reality of that need. I know some people are not safe.
Buddy Sampson (04:09.243)
say kind of often from the pulpit is our job is to equip people and point to their responsibility, not to compel them to do something. And so I think it's similar in that regard. And then finally, I know that, you know, we from the very beginning wanted to, I don't want to say pride ourselves, that would be probably an unchurch term, but we wanted to be a church that the community knew they care about trauma and kids that have experienced trauma and come from hard places. And so literally before we even launched our,
Courtney (04:17.285)
So I think it's similar in that regard. And finally, I noted that we, from the very beginning, want to go...
Courtney (04:26.565)
We want to be a church for the community.
kids that have experienced trauma and have heart places. And so literally before we even launched our children's ministry through our church service, we had people that were equipped.
Buddy Sampson (04:38.395)
our children's ministry for our church service, we had people that were equipped to be in those places that were trauma informed. And we've made that an explicit part of our training, you know, to work in the kids ministry as well. And I think maybe the greatest evidence of the effectiveness of that is that we went from a church plant with some families that are either familiar with adoption and foster care, have been involved in that, to now having, I don't know, we probably have five,
Courtney (04:45.317)
that and express it.
Courtney (04:54.789)
The greatest evidence of the effectiveness of that is that we went from a church plan with some families that are either familiar with...
Courtney (05:05.253)
I don't know if you probably...
Buddy Sampson (05:07.483)
adoptive families, maybe more in our church. And we are, you know, just a couple months old. And I think word travels really fast about, about that kind of thing. So you kind of got to put your money where your mouth is when it comes to that. And I think we've done that. So.
Courtney (05:11.653)
and I think work probably should be best about that kind of thing. So you kind of got to...
Courtney (05:20.165)
Yeah, crazy enough. I mean, truly, one hour ago, I got a message from a local foster adopt mom and she was asking me about Challenger Camp next week and her daughter attending and she said, you know, I wouldn't usually send my daughter to something like this, but I am because I know that your church is trauma -informed and they know how to handle her. So it definitely speaks to your willingness as a pastor to say yes to these things as well because I do know of other people that try and their pastors, you know, just have reluctancy and…
Travis (05:38.702)
Hmm.
Courtney (05:48.613)
cold feet to jumping into things like this, not sure what it's gonna bring or what it's gonna look like for them.
Travis (05:53.966)
Hmm.
Buddy Sampson (05:54.467)
Yeah, I can totally see that. You know, I think there's a having been in public education for a long time and getting to see the I guess you could almost say like the dark side of the whole system. You see we have had students who've been in and out in and out in and out in some really rough places. And I think it can callous people. I don't think it's good, but I think it can happen. And, you know, I think it's just important that.
you know, that we even view our relationship with God and through a similar lens that like we are people that are fickle, that will be obedient on one hand and then turn around and rebel on another. And we are hard, we are hard people to love, you know, just as, as humans and the Lord continues to love us. And so I think that needs to be like the starting posture from the heart of the believer. So.
Travis (06:24.27)
Mm -hmm.
Travis (06:32.846)
Mm hmm.
Travis (06:41.326)
Yeah.
Courtney (06:41.541)
Yeah, I also, I know I've told you before, but at our local foster care support groups, our church has been brought up as, hey, we've been hurting the church. We've been, you know, church hopping because we feel like our kids are not wanted in church settings. And not me, but somebody else said, hey, why don't you check out this new church? But I also know that inviting kids, children from hard places, it can bring some hard things, can be hard. Do you have any tips or stories that stick out for ways that?
Buddy Sampson (06:55.675)
Mm.
Courtney (07:11.045)
A church can support youth in care or their foster parents that are caring for them, like on a typical Sunday morning.
Buddy Sampson (07:16.731)
Sure, I think first of all, the church needs to, the church bears the responsibility of creating a degree of transparency and grace so that the conversation between parents and the church, especially early on in those relationships, can be wide open. I hate to think that people would come to church and feel like they have to restrain information for fear that their kids will be rejected rather than being able to say, church, help.
Travis (07:41.902)
Hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Buddy Sampson (07:45.371)
you know, these are the things that we're dealing with and we really need a place to be able to land. And my kid, it can be a real challenge and the church being able to rally behind that in full of grace and say, we will do what we need to do to become equipped and to get the resources to make sure that we can handle this in the best way that we possibly can. You know, my background, my master's degree is in emotional behavior disorder, special education. And that was my first job, you know, for five years was, and I think to this day, it's never left me to have.
Travis (07:57.006)
Hmm.
Courtney (08:12.193)
I know what I've done with so many of those families.
Buddy Sampson (08:14.171)
to feel this sense of like, I know what those I've dealt with so many of those families firsthand, and just knowing what they're going through. And I think the church just needs to be a place to be, first of all, be able to receive them well. When it does come to tip, I think that those those relationships need to be out in the wide open between the people working with kids, the pastor, the leaders, whoever it is in the church and those families to be to be open about that and be able to discuss it. I also received an email from a
Courtney (08:22.437)
knowing what they're going through. And I think the church just needs to be a place that, first of all, they receive as well. When it does come to tent, I think that those relations...
Travis (08:24.046)
Hmm.
Courtney (08:32.581)
the people working with kids, the pastor, the leaders, whoever it is, the church, and their families to be.
I also received an email from a mom who asked about Trek and talked about she said that she has adopted children and that she wants a place for them to have student ministry but doesn't know if there are other adopted kids but they always go out of place. And I said literally half of our students are adopted kids and she was very encouraged. I haven't seen those kids yet. I'm hoping that they never show up. I think that openness and transparency in that is one of the first things. I also think it's always...
Buddy Sampson (08:42.363)
from a mom who asked about Trek and talked about, she said that she has multiple adopted children and that she wants a place for them to have student ministry, but doesn't know if there are other adopted kids, because they always feel out of place. And I said, literally half of our student ministry, our kids that come from, you know, our adopted kids. And she was very encouraged. I haven't seen those kids yet. I'm hoping that they, you know, they show up. But I think, I think that the openness and transparency in that is, is one of the first things. I also think it's always helpful for, if they're, if they're going to be,
Travis (08:56.142)
haha
Courtney (09:09.497)
I think churches need to have the people that are working with kids trained around how to handle kids who have attachment, you know, related issues, or abuse. I don't even think that the people that are teaching the kids need to have all the information about an individual kid. I don't think that's necessary. But I think they need to be able to have at least a discussion with parents and say...
Buddy Sampson (09:11.931)
Kids that come in with a degree of trauma and those expectations, I think churches need to have their people that are working with kids trained around how to handle kids who have attachment, you know, related issues or have come from abuse. I don't even think that the people that are teaching the kids need to have all of the information about every individual kid. I don't think that's necessary, but I think they need to be able to have at least the discussion where a parent can say, my kid comes from this situation. And then that, you know, that
Travis (09:16.334)
Mm -hmm.
Travis (09:23.598)
Mm -hmm.
Courtney (09:39.105)
I think it just has to be a clear transparency and openness and information shared.
Buddy Sampson (09:41.595)
class leader knows, okay, I'm not going to carry this kid around, you know, the entire class or whatever it may be. So again, I think there just has to be a degree of transparency and openness and information shared and that the church needs to be responsive, really responsive to those things. But I do, you know, going back to the first question, the trauma informed training, I just think it's such a, such a critical piece for, for churches, especially in the, in the area and then the age that we're in, I think that's going to be absolutely necessary. It can't be an afterthought. we've got these kids that have shown up. We need to do something about it. I think there needs to be a, a,
Travis (09:45.998)
Hmm.
Courtney (09:54.327)
I do. I'll go back to the first question. Travel informed training, I just think it's such a critical piece for trips, especially in the area of the A2.
Definitely.
Buddy Sampson (10:10.683)
pro -activeness about it for sure.
Travis (10:13.774)
Yeah. Yeah. Very well said. And I love, you know, in an era too, where we're seeing so much, just a epidemic, I guess you could say of people stepping out of the church, this idea for the church to really be a beacon of hope, a beacon of welcome, a beacon of safety. And, and kind of that is what it seems like the design of the church. That's certainly how Jesus lived and was always looking in the margins for those that maybe the rest haven't seen. And so it just seems like you guys are really living that out well.
Courtney (10:32.293)
That is what it seems like the design of the church that certainly how Jesus lived and was always looking in the margins for those that maybe the rest haven't seen. And so it just seems like you guys are really living that out well. I want to kind of pivot into something that by your background really as an educator, you've seen this well. So you bring this into your pastoral lens, but we know that the adverse effects of aging on a foster care are staggering to individuals and communities. It's a root cause of so many.
Travis (10:44.078)
want to kind of pivot into something that buddy your background really as an educator and you've seen this well. So you're bringing this into your pastoral lens, but we know that the adverse effects of aging out of foster care are staggering to individuals and communities. It's a root cause of so many of society's deepest social wounds. We often talk about foster care as an upstream issue. One of these social wounds is homelessness and
Courtney (11:02.245)
of society's deepest social wounds. We often talk about foster care as an upstream issue. One of these social wounds is homelessness. And one in four youth that age out of foster care at 18 or 21, depending on the state, become homeless within four years of aging out. That's unbelievable. So tell us a bit about your interactions with homeless people and what that tends to look like or has looked like. Yeah, so, you know, when I think about this,
Travis (11:12.078)
one in four of youth that age out of foster care at 18 or 21, depending on what state, become homeless within four years of aging out. That's unbelievable. So tell us a bit about your interactions with homeless people and what that tends to look like or has looked like.
Buddy Sampson (11:21.179)
Mm -hmm.
Buddy Sampson (11:28.731)
Yeah. So, you know, when I think about this, I and follow my thinking here, I don't so much see, and I don't think you are implying this either, that the kid from foster care becomes the homeless person. It's actually the circumstances that precede a kid ending up in foster care that that that source, that etiology leads to this homelessness foster care is what's in the middle trying to serve. I think to some degree as the
Courtney (11:34.885)
I don't think you were applying this either.
Courtney (11:44.389)
the circumstances that precede a kid ending up in foster care, that that source, that etiology leads to this homelessness foster care is what's in the middle, trying to serve, I think, to some degree as an obstacle to the natural fruition coming that way, to serve as the hard stop, you know, like the, this is like the block, so to speak, of ending up that way. So, you know, gosh, I get that, but.
Buddy Sampson (11:58.491)
you know, an obstacle to the natural fruition coming that way to serve as like the hard stop, you know, like this needs to be like the block, so to speak, of ending up that way. And so, you know, gosh, I could talk about this all day, but every single one of the homeless men that I, literally every single one of the homeless men that I interact with, with the exception of one out of six, come from just tragically broken childhoods. I mean, I,
Travis (12:03.31)
Hmm.
Courtney (12:13.861)
all day that every single one of the homeless men that I interact with, with the exception of one out of six come from just tragically broken childhoods. I mean, there was a homeless guy that I talked to on a weekly basis in town, 60. There's a kid I talked to that I haven't seen for about two months now, unfortunately, he's 22 years old. I'm thinking, how did a 22 year old end up in this kind of situation? So, one of the first things I do is...
Buddy Sampson (12:28.251)
There's a homeless guy that I talk to on a weekly basis in town who's 60. There's a kid I talked to that I haven't seen for about two months now. Unfortunately, he was 22 years old. And I'm thinking, how does a 22 year old end up in this kind of a situation? So one of the first things I do is, where are you from? Tell me about your life. What are your interests? What are your hobbies? I never say, tell me about the brokenness of your family because every simple question is gonna get there, right? They're gonna end up, it's gonna come out. It always does.
Courtney (12:44.225)
I never say tell me about the broken family because every simple question is going to get there. It's going to come out and always does. I would just go even so far as to say, in my experience, there are two things that tend to show up. Fatherlessness, the most of the people I'm working with, the dads, whenever the picture begins with, and addiction. The drugs and alcohol, and it's just always the...
Buddy Sampson (12:56.187)
And I will just go even so far as to say, in my experience, there are two things that tend to show up. Fatherlessness, most of the people I'm working with, the dads were never in the picture to begin with, and addiction. The drugs and alcohol, and that is just, it's always the precursor, even to something that may become physical. But the broken family aspect of this, and to think that the Lord gave,
Travis (13:03.95)
Hmm.
Travis (13:09.166)
Hmm.
Travis (13:15.886)
Hmm.
Courtney (13:17.157)
I think they'll become physical, but the broken family aspect of this and to think that the Lord gave in his church, did from the very beginning, this concept of adoption, I hope you didn't get into this too much, but I really just think that having an appropriate theology of adoption is so critical for the Christian to see. You were not part of God's family until he brought you in by his grace, that you were a part. I'm gonna tell this to you.
Buddy Sampson (13:23.611)
in his church, even from the very beginning, this concept of adoption, and I won't get into this too much, but I really just think that having an appropriate theology of adoption is so critical for the Christian to see. You were not part of God's family until he brought you in by his grace, that you were a part. I mean, it tells us in John 1, to all who received him to believe in his name, he gave the right to become children of God. We read in Romans 8 that we were...
Courtney (13:46.757)
One, that you all who receive it, to believe that they need to get the right to become children of God. We read in Romans 8 that we were adopted as children. We did in Ephesians chapter 1, that we were destined to be adopted as children. There's this language that just so rips throughout. I think it helps us if we go look at the homeless, for example, and see, man, they're dirty, they're different, and we relate to them. But no, their family experience led to this. That they need this kind of adoptive love as early as possible in their experience.
Buddy Sampson (13:51.579)
adopted as sons. Read it in Ephesians chapter one, you know, that we were predestined to be adopted as a children. There's this language is just so rich throughout. And I think it helps us if we don't look at the homeless, for example, and see, man, they're, they're dirty, they're different. If we relate to them that know their family experience led to this and they need the same kind of adoptive love as early as possible in their experience to prevent homelessness, these kids that are in that situation. And I just, you know, I just really think that's
Travis (14:17.326)
Mm.
Courtney (14:19.301)
I just really think that's really what matters for us, right? Is to look and see these families are a gift from God to try to prevent that consequence. To try to slow down the likelihood that by giving them the experience, what it is to be loved and to be loved for a good life. And I think that's, I think that's the gospel, or I think that's the -
Buddy Sampson (14:21.787)
That's really what matters for us, right? Is to look and see these families are a gift from God to try to prevent that consequence, to try to slow down the likelihood of that by giving them the experience of what it is to be loved when you weren't worthy of love. And I think that's the gospel, right? That's kind of the nature of the gospel, so.
Travis (14:35.054)
Hmm.
Travis (14:41.226)
Yeah.
Courtney (14:42.565)
I don't have a lot of experience ministering to homeless. I mean, generally, we actually have quite a few moms. Through foster care, kids that are in our care, the moms are often homeless. And so in that sense, I do. But I'm just curious, on a day to day, so you walk downtown, you just walk up to somebody. What does that look like?
Buddy Sampson (15:01.179)
man, sometimes it's better than others. I got a story from today. I make a point to get it, to know everybody's name. So I just, I think the biggest thing is there's this, and I don't know it, I've never had this problem. I get it's a spiritual gift, I guess, to some degree, but I can go talk to anybody and I never feel awkward or uncomfortable. It's just never been a problem of mine. I know you probably have a lot of jokes you could say about that Courtney at this moment, because I talk a lot and I have a lot of words and I don't withhold.
Travis (15:03.278)
Mm -hmm.
Travis (15:28.942)
Ha ha.
Buddy Sampson (15:30.523)
But no, I think I do. I just, I go, I look for my guys, right? I see them. I know most guys are in the same places. And so I walked down main and you know, I, as soon as I see one of my guys offered to buy him coffee and most of these guys aren't even allowed in the coffee shops anymore. So I have to go in and buy coffee and you know, we sit outside and that made for some cold days this winter. I'll tell you that. But we'll sit outside and I'll just talk. I mean, I just talked to him like a human. We just talk about life. What's going on. How did you sleep last night? How is your tent holding up?
I've learned that a lot of these guys don't want me to just give to fix their problem. They just want to have a friend. They want to have somebody who they think, you know, cares about them. They're not, I don't need to be like, how can I, you need a new sleeping bag? Like they, they're inundated with that. They just want somebody to be like, Hey, tell me about your life. Tell me about your daughter. Who you said you moved out here with what she doing now, you know? And, and, I think just really getting to love on them that way. Now,
Courtney (16:24.741)
Now, the gross thing, and I think I've told you before, is that sometimes these conversations are lucid and they're incredible, and sometimes they're so much like drug abuse, like paranoia and whatnot, that it's really hard to keep them engaged.
Buddy Sampson (16:25.691)
There's the drug thing. And I think I've told you Courtney that, you know, sometimes these conversations are lucid and they're incredible. And sometimes they're so, there's so much like drug induced, like paranoia and whatnot, that it's really hard to even engage in a conversation this morning. I saw one of my guys Ron, kind of a little over the top and he was right outside of Draco coffee company and he was being just, I mean, excessively loud and profane. And this is not like him and
Courtney (16:41.413)
by one of my guys.
Courtney (16:49.157)
just excessively loud and profane and this is not like them and this is about the third time I've done this where I see the police and I've tried to intervene on behalf of the homeless guy that basically I went over and I was like, chill calm down, calm down.
Buddy Sampson (16:54.235)
This is about the third time I've done this where I see the police and I've tried to intervene on the behalf of the homeless guy to basically, I went over and I was like, Ron, dude, chill. Calm down for a minute, calm down. And he was not having it. And he, he's like, this is Buddy. Buddy's, Buddy's one of the guys that gives me meth. And, and I was like, Ron, come on, Ron. And then good news is the two police officers that come up, I know from FCA and, and I'm just talking to these guys and they're like, yeah, we had a phone call about him. And I said, I tried to get him to calm down and,
Travis (17:04.59)
Hmm.
Courtney (17:05.509)
This is Buddy. Buddy's one of the guys that kissed me in death. And I was like, come on, Ron. And then, good news, the two police officers called my note for XCA and I'm just talking to these guys. And they're like, yeah, we had a.
Buddy Sampson (17:21.659)
So then you have some of these bad interactions, you know, where then they're like, all of a sudden you're the bad guy and there's a lot of paranoia. There's a lot of paranoia. I don't take any of it personal. You know, I just, I'm just trying to go and be kind. And like I said, every single one of those men at some point, I know every one of their lives. I know every one of their stories, which is, I've gotten to that point with every single one of them. It's after that point is where, how do we keep this conversation where there doesn't become this sense of paranoia. So anyways, yeah. But.
Courtney (17:22.245)
So then you have to be bad at interactions with other people. And they're like, obviously, you're the bad guy. And there's a lot of paranoia. There's a lot of paranoia. I don't take any of it personally. I just try to go and be kind. Like I said, every single one of those men at some point, I know every one of their lives. I know every one of their stories, which is I've gotten to that point where every single one of them is after that point. That's where, how do we end? Conversation with them doesn't end.
Travis (17:29.102)
Hmm.
Travis (17:44.206)
Yeah.
Travis (17:50.574)
Yeah, that's, thanks for taking us into sort of the kind of your experience like on the streets and what that looks like. I do think too, you make a great point that when you kind of open the segment up of talking about that the root of this, the systemic nature of this isn't just being in foster care proceeds that, you know, we know that even one of the biggest predictors of someone going into foster care is that their parent was in foster care. So it kind of talks to the cyclical nature of the systemic issues here.
Courtney (17:51.013)
Yeah, that's, thanks for taking us into sort of the, kind of your experience like on the streets and what that looks like. I do think too, you make a great point that, kind of open the segment up of talking about that the root of this, the systemic nature of this isn't just being in foster care, proceeds that. You know, we know that even one of the biggest predictors of someone going into foster care is that their parent was in foster care. So we kind of talked to the cyclical nature of the systemic issues here and that certainly we know that in foster care there's,
Buddy Sampson (18:15.707)
Mm -hmm.
Travis (18:17.742)
And that certainly we know that in foster care there's on healing from trauma or maybe that hasn't happened or, you know, there just hasn't been a relational connections with important caregivers that sort of just continues to be a wound that then when they leave on attached to important members of their community, it's, we see why homelessness happens. So it's just, it's not hard to make the leap. And you've really, thank you just for taking us into the face of homelessness. Well, by some of those stories.
Courtney (18:20.645)
healing from trauma or maybe that hasn't happened or you know there just hasn't been relational connections with important caregivers that sort of just continues to be a wound that then when they leave unattached to important members of the community it's we see why homelessness happens so it's just it's not hard to make the leap and you really thank you just for taking us into the face of homelessness well by some of those stories.
Buddy Sampson (18:36.923)
I don't know.
Buddy Sampson (18:46.779)
Well, and I just feel compelled to say homeless, you know, people don't early in life for the choose, you know, I want to be homeless someday. Homelessness is the absence of a purpose. It is the, it is just the very tangible physical material representation of what happens when someone has never been drawn into like a higher purpose and value in life. The consequences, a degree of apathy or addiction or
Courtney (18:56.709)
homelessness is the absence of a purpose. It is just a very tangible physical material representation of what happened when someone has never been...
Courtney (19:13.093)
I mean, you know, I'm doing the whole mental health thing, but I...
Buddy Sampson (19:16.091)
bad decisions, whatever it is. I mean, you know, there's the whole mental health thing, but I, when I talk to these guys, I'm of the belief that the mental health is a product of the addiction. It's not what caused the homelessness, the addiction, you know, oftentimes are the broken families. These things are the, those causes, but I just, you know, again, coming from a Christian worldview, I think that, cause I try to get to these guys and enough to where I can send them into my brother's faith -based rehab and.
Albuquerque, the Teen Challenge, the Men's Center of New Mexico there. And because I want to get this relationship where I can see them healed and they will receive a purpose in Jesus there. And so anyways, I just want to make that point. These are just broken men that I talked to who just have never had a reason to really live. And, you know, that's disheartening. But we have the key. You know, our job is just to expend the energy to get it to them. So.
Courtney (20:10.309)
Thank you.
Travis (20:11.758)
sub.
Courtney (20:13.605)
Yeah. Do you have any stories of hope from somebody that you've ministered to and kind of their outcome, a turnaround in life?
Buddy Sampson (20:22.427)
man, yeah, that's, yeah, I do. Not yet from Durango, but I'm working on it. But no, even back in Kentucky, even in Fort Collins, getting to minister to people who were either homeless or experience of homeless or just in a state of disarray. And yeah, I've gotten to see some kids have just remarkable transformation. Kids believe the gospel. I was telling Travis before the call, I think Brooke and I've had 10 different.
high school students live with us for different amounts of time over the years. And so just getting to see kids be loved and what the whole foster care system is intended to do is to give the kid the experience of what stable family and what love feels like. And getting to see the results of that are some of the greatest blessings in my life. Getting to see kids who've turned around, I think my shortest but favorite illustration would be,
Travis (21:09.678)
Hmm.
Buddy Sampson (21:20.027)
I'm a student of mine named Cam, who literally I became connected to because he broke the dress code violation right in front of my face at the high school. And I stared at him long enough for him to know he should take his hood off and he refused to do it. And so I finally was like, dude, come meet me in the office. He threw a fit, cussed me all the way to the office. We have this great conversation about like, what's, you know, what's your life for fast forward one month. He's his, I learned about his family over the course of that month. And it's an absolute disaster. Like we're talking about fathers in prison.
Travis (21:28.366)
Hahaha.
Buddy Sampson (21:48.731)
mother was a former addict. He has like five siblings with four different other dads. And so he moves in with us and just getting to watch his eyes opened to what family looks like and what stability looks like and how many conversations where we just lay side by side and you know, on the floor and he'd be talking to me and weeping about like, I feel like I understand what it is to be a man. I feel like I understand what it is to be a dad. It's just, you know, the one I want him to believe the gospel and he hasn't yet, but, but just to watch his.
Travis (22:11.566)
Hmm.
Courtney (22:16.997)
This is the ultimate world.
Buddy Sampson (22:17.115)
you know, his world opened up to like what reality can look like. He's doing great right now. He's 22 and he's doing awesome. And so anyways, that's probably I still, I love him. I'm loving like he's my own child. And I know you all understand that, right? You know that well. So, yeah, that's, that's probably one of my favorites, but.
Travis (22:23.95)
Hmm.
Courtney (22:26.277)
I love it. I'm up making a child. I know you all understand that, right? You know that, right?
Travis (22:27.178)
Yeah.
Travis (22:33.006)
I love that.
Courtney (22:34.15)
Yeah. So I got to do life with you. I mean, you're my pastor, you're a friend, family friend. And I often hear you say, Samson's do hard things. So what would your wish be for your children and even your congregation when it comes to doing hard things?
Buddy Sampson (22:43.899)
Mm -hmm.
Buddy Sampson (22:47.707)
I'm going to go ahead.
Gosh, well, I'll just tell you Courtney, and I know we've talked about this a lot, but I think one of the most important things that we can do is help people to understand that foster care and adoption is hard. I know Brooke and I, I feel like as we were moving into the season to adopt our youngest son, there was a very romanticized version put forward to us that was, we fortunately had enough experience with some of these kids from troubled backgrounds that we knew otherwise.
But I just think it's really important that families understand this is hard. But then when I think you take that reality and you match that with, it is hard, but it is purposeful and it is doable in the power of the Holy Spirit. And I just, I want my kids to, like you've raised your kids, I want them to recognize that there are things that are really hard in life that we are called to, that if our life feels like it's a breeze, we're probably outside of the will of God. You know, I...
You can't look at the text of scripture, you can't look at the history of the early church especially and say that the Christians had it easy. They had it as hard as you could possibly have it. And in most places in the world, that's still the case right now. And so, yeah, I do. I want our kids to recognize, and again, I'll be redundant, but I just think it's the most important piece. Our church needs to know that they were not born children of God, they were adopted. That they were not adopted because they were loved. First, they were adopted.
Courtney (23:56.805)
Yeah, I do. I want our kids to recognize.
Courtney (24:05.893)
day.
Courtney (24:09.669)
They are.
Courtney (24:13.061)
They were like.
Buddy Sampson (24:13.979)
because God placed his affection on them, not because they did something that was lovable, but because they did something that was unlovable and he loved anyways. And I think if we see our standing in the gospel through that lens, it will cause us to see hard to love kids as ourselves. They're just a vicarious version, tangible version of who we are in the eyes of God that he persists in loving us even as we continue to hurt and to struggle and to be hard and to bring challenges. And so,
Courtney (24:15.493)
place his affection on them, not because they did something that was loveable, but...
Courtney (24:27.589)
to see heart to love kids as ourselves. They're just the vicarious.
are in the eyes of God that he persists in loving us even...
Courtney (24:43.397)
So I just think the more we understand the reality of the gospel, the more we will be willing to...
Buddy Sampson (24:43.707)
I just think the more we understand the reality of the gospel, the more we will be willing to do hard things for Jesus, whether it's to move to plant a church, it's to become part of the foster community, it's to go to the hardest places where Christians are persecuted, or it's to confess the reality of your sin to your spouse to try to get things on the right track. All those things are hard, all those things are worth it. And so yeah, I want my kids to know it and see it.
Courtney (24:54.757)
I think they get to see the church every Sunday. They get to see it in their own home and they get to see it in their regular experience. So I'm super grateful for that.
Buddy Sampson (25:08.219)
I think they get to see it at church every Sunday. You know, they get to see it in our own home and they get to see it in their regular experiences. So I'm super grateful for that. So, yeah.
Travis (25:10.926)
Hmm.
Travis (25:17.838)
Hmm. Yeah. I'm inspired just listening. So I'm, and I'm aware of the issue, but yeah, I love it. There's a writer that says a life without cause is a life without effect. And, it just seems like, yeah, like you said, there's doing hard things, is where the work is at, but it's where the beauty is at and where redemption is at. So good, good kind of place to kind of bring this to the home stretch. you've kind of really inspired and said some really helpful things for.
Courtney (25:20.389)
I'm inspired just listening. And I'm aware of the issue. But yeah, I love it. There's a writer that says a life without cause is a life without effect. It just seems like, yeah, like you said, there's doing hard things is where the work is at. That's where the beauty is at and where redemption is at. So good kind of place to kind of bring us to the home stretch. You kind of really inspired and said some really helpful things for us.
Travis (25:47.246)
families to consider. Now let's actually look at other churches and church leaders. We've already talked about kind of the upstream issues of foster care leading to homelessness, imprisonment, sex trafficking, addiction, all of that. Can you give a charge to other pastors and even new church plants that are just kind of getting up and running to really look at the issue of foster care and to consider becoming foster friendly? What are your thoughts there?
Courtney (25:47.589)
families to consider. Now let's actually look at other churches and church leaders. We've already talked about kind of the upstream issues of foster care leading to homelessness, imprisonment, sex trafficking, addiction, all of that. Can you give a charge to other pastors and even new church plants or just kind of getting up and running to really look at the issue of foster care and to consider becoming foster friends? What are your thoughts on that?
Buddy Sampson (26:13.563)
Man, I think it's a huge, I think it's a huge need. You know, I, I think about how, for example, even our own church planting network of churches, it's called the SIN network. And one of the big key pieces on the very front end of our, of our training was that they want to form relationships between churches and international missionaries. So that in the DNA of the church is that we are sending church for the sake of the gospel to the nations. I think it's a wonderful, beautiful thing.
Courtney (26:24.033)
And one of the big...
Courtney (26:31.681)
I think it's a wonderful, beautiful thing. However, I also think that if we're not truthful, we can almost accidentally so globally focus, then we will fit a significant pressing need.
Buddy Sampson (26:43.291)
However, I also think that if we're not careful, we can almost accidentally become so globally focused that we will miss significant pressing needs in our own community where we have been called and have been planted to do ministry well. And I think Courtney knows I'm not one of these guys that thinks the pendulum should swing all the way back to forget the nations. I mean, I go to Peru in the fall, I'm all about it. But I also do think that there are ways that in the context even of church planning network specifically,
Courtney (26:55.685)
have been called and have been planted to do ministry well. And I think Courtney knows I'm not one of these guys that thinks the temple is just going all the way back to forget the nations. I mean, I go to Peru in the fall. I'm all about it. But I also do think that there are ways, and in the context of a church planning network specifically, that elevating or emphasizing the role the church ought to play in the possible adopted world could be massive if it's with the church.
Buddy Sampson (27:13.327)
that elevating or emphasizing the role that the church ought to play in the foster adoptive world could be massive if it's attended to on the front end. Listen, I wanna take no credit for this being a part of our church. We came from a church in Kentucky that had a strong foster adoptive culture. We went to Fort Collins that had a strong foster adoptive culture and then the Williams joined and all that did was say, we're gonna take this to the next level. We'll become...
Travis (27:23.822)
Hmm.
Courtney (27:25.221)
I want to take no credit for this being a part of our church. We came from a church in Kentucky that had a strong foster adoptive culture. We went to Fort Collins that had a strong foster adoptive culture and then the Williams joined and all that did was say we're going to take them to the next level. We'll become the place where people are equipped to do this well and we're going to start these wraparound teams and we are going to really serve this community.
Buddy Sampson (27:42.779)
the place where people are equipped to do this well. And we're going to start these, these wraparound teams and we are going to really serve this community in the, in the context of the church. And it's been a remarkable thing. So what we're doing here is just getting a headstart on that similar concept. But what, what I think would be just an incredible thing is, and almost as we talk about it, I'm feeling like the bird, you ever, you ever do that thing where you start praying and as you're praying, the Lord will do something. He's like tapping you on the shoulder, like,
Courtney (27:53.269)
So what we're doing here is just getting a head start on that similar concept. But what I think would be just an incredible thing is, and almost as we talk about it, I feel like the bird, you ever do that thing where you start praying and as you're praying the Lord will do something, he's like tapping you on the shoulder like, hey, hey, you're gonna answer this, this is gonna be your responsibility. I'm kind of feeling that right now, that pressure. In a good way. But I think we need to approach these, the entities that are doing the training to see.
Travis (28:05.486)
Ha ha.
Buddy Sampson (28:10.427)
Hey, hey, you're gonna answer this, this is gonna be your responsibility. I'm kind of feeling that right now, that pressure in a good way. But I think we need to approach the entities that are doing the trainings to see healthy churches formed and say, this needs to be a core area because there are, I mean, is there any city or any town in the United States of America where this is not a concern? Where they're like, no, no, all the kids have families, they're all fine. I would imagine if that does exist, it has to be a tiny minority of the picture.
Travis (28:13.166)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha
Courtney (28:22.981)
and say this needs to be a core area because there are, I mean if there's any city or any town in the United States of America where this is not a concern, we're like, none at all. All the kids have families throughout the time. I would imagine if that does exist, it has to be a tiny minority of the picture nationally. And so, I think more than anything, churches should be called A to the Biblical mandate to see that their church bears the responsibility for this. This isn't something.
Travis (28:38.67)
Hmm.
Buddy Sampson (28:40.283)
you know, nationally. And so I think, I think more than anything, churches should be called a to the biblical mandate to see that their church bears the responsibility for this. This isn't something, this isn't something the government bears responsibility for. This is something that church bears responsibility for and the church, the government should be depending on the church, not the other way around. And then number two, I feel like I should go back to my trainers through the sin network and say, Hey, there needs to be some consideration given.
Travis (28:42.606)
Hmm.
Courtney (28:52.741)
This isn't something the government bears responsibility for. This is something the church bears responsibility for. The government should be depending on the church, not the other way around. And then number two, I feel like I should go back to my trainers through Descend Network and say, hey, there needs to be some consideration given to how we push this forward, what we get going. That if we want to serve our community as well, we need to look at where the least of these are and the people with the greatest needs, what we need it to be. So, can I start a longer end?
Buddy Sampson (29:07.899)
to how we push this forward right from the get -go. That if we want to serve our communities well, we need to look at where the least of these are and the people with the greatest degree of struggle, we need to intervene. So, yeah. Sorry, that's kind of a longer answer than you probably were asking for.
Travis (29:17.078)
Hmm.
Courtney (29:20.005)
You know, just a couple of weeks ago, I got a stand before our church and talk just a little bit about foster care. And you know, I told them we've had roughly 60 kids in out of our door. And I don't say that for praise. I don't say that for a pat on the back. I was telling them that I say that to tell you that 60 kids that got to come into the doors of our church that likely wouldn't have had they not been in our home.
Travis (29:21.166)
No, it covered everything.
Buddy Sampson (29:22.523)
Ha ha.
Courtney (29:45.733)
And so we look at foster care and the families that we need and the churches, the communities we need behind them, having a church that's behind you and knowing, you know, we have a teenager with us right now and he's hard. He's a hard kiddo. Our family went on vacation last week and for other reasons he couldn't come along. And we had two young men, one of them was my son, but two young men that took him in and cared for him for four days while we were gone. And I wouldn't have trusted other people and they've been to a church that has been
made this a priority, has talked about it. They've gone to training where they were able to become trauma sensitive. And again, I just wouldn't have had that comfortable spirit leaving him hadn't that been the case. So if you're somebody listening and you're interested in your church becoming foster friendly, like I said earlier, there are two of three things that you have to do either teach on trauma for your childcare workers, have a training, we provide one, but also,
You can find it elsewhere. We don't make, you don't have to use ours. It doesn't have to be through AKB, but you have to be trauma sensitive. Teach on foster care and or adoption from the pulpit and support foster families. So two of those three things that you can get the stamp of approval for what we call of being a foster friendly church where families like ours could say, I'm looking for a new church home and this is a church that I know we're going to go there and they're going to understand us.
Travis (31:06.926)
And then they can also get on the app, the foster friendly app and be a searchable church. Correct? I mean, is that, that's part of the package.
Courtney (31:14.053)
Yep. Yeah. So once they become foster friendly, they'll be on the app, like you said, that's active in quite a few states now across the nation at all. But yeah, even if your state doesn't have it, again, just putting those three things into motion is going to change the heartbeat of your community and the heartbeat of those foster families that need to be served and are looking to be served by the churches.
Travis (31:43.534)
Any other last words, buddy, to bring us out here?
Buddy Sampson (31:47.995)
Well, I guess I would just speak to the, I would speak to both the congregant. You should be talking to your, your church leaders. And if I'm talking to a church leader, I would just say, we have a responsibility here and, to lead well is to prioritize the things and the greatest needs that your community has. And like I said, the, let, let the church be the place where people come into these families. And as Courtney said, get to come and hear the gospel of Jesus Christ and, and.
be adopted for life and for eternity. I think that should be the ultimate aim.
Courtney (32:24.229)
Agreed.
Travis (32:25.87)
words. Thanks so much for being on with us.
Courtney (32:27.493)
Thanks so much for being on with us. Yeah, thank you.
Buddy Sampson (32:30.683)
Thank you. Thank you guys.