Inspired Living with Autoimmunity

Inspired Living with Autoimmunity Trailer Bonus Episode 132 Season 1

Dr Jenny Tufenkian: Chronic Fatigue Explained - A Deep Dive into the 5 Core Energy Drainers

00:00
In this episode we welcome Dr. Jenny Tufenkian, a naturopathic physician with two decades of experience in treating chronic illness. Our conversation explores chronic fatigue syndrome, its newly recognized term myalgic encephalitis (ME), as well as Dr. Jenny's personal battle with the condition.

For the complete show notes and links visit inspiredliving.show/132

Creators & Guests

Host
Julie Michelson

What is Inspired Living with Autoimmunity?

The podcast for high achievers who want to stay sharp, focused and full of energy despite their diagnoses. Those who know there has got to be something better than simply accepting decline.

Hosted by Julie Michelson, a National Board Certified Functional Medicine Health Coach who used to suffer from crippling Rheumatoid Arthritis until she learned the tools and strategies to take her power back from autoimmunity.

In this podcast, Julie brings you interviews with thought leaders in the Functional Health and Wellness space. You will get actionable recommendations to Take Your Power Back and catapult your health. No fluff, just concrete, useful steps to improve your health!

Welcome back to the Inspired
Living with Autoimmunity podcast.

I'm your host, Julie Michelson,
and today we're joined by Dr.

Jenny Tafunkian, who has been treating
chronic illness for two decades.

Having complex chronic fatigue
herself, she had no choice but to dig

deep into the literature and uncover
the root causes of chronic fatigue.

Dr.

Jenny is a licensed naturopathic
physician, and through her research

and experience, she developed an
effective system to unlock the five

core energy drainers so that those
who are too exhausted to function can

start feeling like themselves again.

She shares this system with clients
and practitioners online and in person.

In today's conversation, we're talking
about the common drivers of chronic

fatigue syndrome, or myalgic encephalitis,
as it is now more accurately called.

Dr.

Jenny shares these five common
drivers of chronic fatigue and the

approach that she takes with her
clients to allow for true healing.

If you find yourself strategically
budgeting your energy to make it through

your day, this episode is for you.

Dr.

Jenny, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me here.

I really appreciate it.

It is my pleasure.

I have heard your story and I, I
know the kind of work that you're

doing and I'm excited to share your
work with listeners, um, because it

is such an important, you're, you're
just doing amazing, amazing work.

It's a kind of a population that often
is just left on their own unhelped.

So, but I'd love to, to start a little
bit with your story, um, and just

find out more about your journey.

Sure.

So, um, I decided to become a naturopathic
doctor when I was six months pregnant

with my child and I was single and I had
broken my knee and was kind of a mess to

be honest, but deciding to have this kid
and decided to become a doctor were sort

of the two big epiphanies, you know, when
you're in your 20s, you can have these

big realizations that move your life.

In a huge way.

I went on to do medical school with
him when he was little and really

felt like I was superwoman and decided
it was time to have a second child

after second year of medical school.

Um, I had married his dad
and we were happily married

and it was all working out.

And, um, Ended up having a series
of miscarriages and the second

miscarriage was a second trimester one.

And it ended up hemorrhaging and
needing to be rushed to the hospital.

And that was the opening of what
I call my dark night of the soul.

And this is a time because I was in
medical school and I had this young

kid, I had friends who would go off to
meditate and I'd be like, what's that?

I don't have time for that.

Like, I just, I just, I'm
doing, I'm doing, you know?

Yeah.

When I crashed from that miscarriage
where I hemorrhaged, I literally was stuck

in bed for months, and I was so tired
I could only Just stare at the ceiling.

I couldn't eat.

I couldn't sleep.

I had severe anxiety.

I have suicidal ideation.

It was really rough and
people confessed to me later.

They were afraid I was going
to die during that phase.

I had, my legs were ice up to my knees
and I really was not functioning.

I was very blessed to be surrounded by
healers because I was a medical school,

and so a lot of my teachers and my
colleagues would come and take care of

my family and came and cared for me.

And I had this very profound experience
where one of the therapists that

came was a hypnotherapist and she
did subconscious work with me.

And that was the first time
I'd ever felt like I'd done

therapy where I got to where.

I needed to be scratched that
itch that needed to be scratched.

And we started to, and she was
able to help me shift out of that

deep anxiety and the depression.

And I moved from what I would
call from the bed to the couch.

So literally I now was
able to be on the couch.

I didn't have the severe anxiety or the
depression, but I still had the ongoing

fatigue after I took a year out of medical
school and went back and was not normal.

I was very tired and it really hit me
the day I was walking down the hall with

my, the person that was seeing all of us
as residents, overseeing our residents.

And she, she said she wanted
to live till she was 120.

And I just looked at her, I was
in my thirties and I was like,

Oh, why would you want to do that?

I already feel like I'm 90.

Like, I just didn't understand.

I was so tired.

And that's when it really
hit me how sick I still was.

You know, I just, I, I felt so old
and I threw everything I knew at it

as a young, new student and physician.

And, and I did actually
break through that year.

And the last, I call
it, I call it a puzzle.

And the last piece of the puzzle was
healing my mercury amalgams, getting those

Ah.

which I know with all the work you
do with autoimmune, you know how much

those metals can be a trigger for that.

And I was able to, you know, I really
feel like all of this deep work that

I did at that time served me as a
practitioner, I was able to hold people

in very deep illness because of what
I had experienced in my own self.

And I was able to feel like I
could tell people who had chronic

fatigue that there was an answer.

They could get better.

I literally got what I called 150
percent better, whereas able to

have another kid and open clinics
and, you know, is teaching.

And I mean, I just was going full tilt.

And I didn't think I'd ever get it again.

And then I did.

And then I learned my second lesson,
which is how quickly you can hit relapse.

You know, once your body has
that pattern, it's so easy to go

back into it with a few triggers.

I had an injury, I had
pain, I'd sleep deprivation.

I was going through perimenopause.

It was a perfect storm.

And I went down that slide and I
was terrified I was going to fall

in that hole again and be in bed.

But my whole family was dependent
on me financially at that time.

And I couldn't.

Not work.

I had to work or else I was going
to literally take my family into

bankruptcy, but I was so exhausted.

So I ended up, um, just researching.

And this was a gift because I ended
up my practice filled with people

who had chronic fatigue and I mapped
out these different root causes.

And I saw that we're not all the same.

The first time I had it and I
got well, I knew it was possible

to get well, but I didn't know.

The path.

The second time it became so much clearer.

It was 17 years later and it had so
much more clarity about what are the

different root causes that can lead to
people to get chronic fatigue, right?

journey.

And, and it is, I love when, you know,
the, the mess becomes the magic, um,

which is how most of us are here.

And again, yet another story
of, you know, it's what we put

doctors through in medical school.

Um, it, like if there's something
waiting to pop out, it typically

will pop out during medical school.

I don't know why we're trying to
kill healers, but, um, maybe one day

that system and it's international.

I mean, it doesn't really
matter whether it's.

You know, naturopath, MD, DO, like
it's, and what country you're in,

Yeah.

so, um, but we're, we're grateful that
you're, you're not only well, but, you

know, now have the gifts to help others.

Um, yeah,

mention that the journey, the magic
journey continues because I got,

I got COVID 18 months ago and it
really triggered my chronic fatigue.

And I understand what were the,
what was the setup for that?

I can, I can see that there
were things that I should

have been paying attention to.

I knew I should have, and I wasn't.

Like what?

what was that?

Like what?

Like what kind of things, you know, I
know for me, the things I need to watch,

um, you know, and that, that's where, you
know, I, I'm symptom free, but I'm symptom

free because I'm not living the way I was
living that got me sick to begin with.

Um, so what are, you know, what are those
things that now and even in hindsight with

COVID, because COVID is a special thing.

Um, so what could you have
been doing differently?

Yeah.

And I think this is really good for
anyone who's listening out there, who's

wondering why maybe they got into the
chronic health condition they're in now.

And, or you're somebody who's like,
Oh, I don't really want to do that.

Or I don't want to relapse because
what I did personally is that I knew

I had a low grade gut thing going on.

I, I knew I probably had H.

pylori or something.

My husband had a really bad case of it.

It was one of those where we were so busy.

You know, I wanted to do the protocol
at the same time because you can

ping pong it back, back and forth
between a partner and we'll wait.

And he was busy doing his catch
up work from all the stuff that

was canceled during the pandemic.

Then we were traveling to catch up for
the pandemic and I was working and I,

I was working down in the Dominican
Republic, teaching these amazing female

entrepreneurs for their mastermind.

And, um, I got a gastrointestinal
illness while I was down there.

So I had three days of.

Diarrhea and fever and the
person next to me had COVID.

And so while my immune system
was trashed, my gut was trashed.

I got COVID, but the setup was
that the year that I knew that

I had something going on in my
gut that I kept putting off.

I also knew that I needed to do
another round of heavy metal detox.

I kept putting that off.

I didn't want to take a
week off work to detox.

And I was under immense amount of stress.

okay.

So

We all went through

to the superwoman complex,

We all went through something in COVID
that was a, a rattle for our, for

ourselves, and I went through mine
and it was impacting me and I knew it

was impacting me, I was doing what I
could, but it was, it still threw me.

So that was my setup and the journeys
continued for me to be able to see,

Oh, how does long COVID, how's it the
same or different from chronic fatigue

and what works and you know, what are
the ways that we can get out of this?

which I think, you know, I, unfortunately,
even just with autoimmune triggers,

um, chronic fatigue, long COVID,
you know, there's more and more

and more, there was more anyway.

And then COVID just
pushed it over the top.

for sure.

Um, so yeah, what, what are.

I want to back up a little bit, um,
and, and talk about chronic fatigue.

You know, I, I, we see it all the time.

Um, I experienced it.

I'm guessing, well, maybe you didn't
because you were, you had, you were

surrounded by healers, but, um, you know,
what, let's talk about symptoms and how

this is, you know, not a tired mom, not
a lazy person, you know, how, how, if

listeners are listening and they're like,
well, You know, how do I know if this

is something that I should be attending
to and, and pushing, um, for answers

or if maybe what I was told is right?

And, and, you know, I look fine, right?

Nobody believes I don't feel well.

right, right.

Yeah, people people tend to look
really good when they have chronic

fatigue and everybody says you
look amazing and I'm like, thanks.

Can't wait to lie down, you know,
so I I just want to say that.

Whoever's listening to this, you know,
your body better than anybody else.

So, you know, if you're tired, if
you're tired, then listen to yourself

as to the, those are the signs.

If you're feeling exhausted, if you
find yourself doing what I call energy

budgeting, which is where you're kind
of Okay, well, um, it's after work and

I got invited to go to do go for drinks
after work, but I'm afraid if I do that,

then I'm not going to have the energy
to, um, check my emails after I get home.

Or, um, if I go to the kids soccer
game on Saturday, then that means

that I'm not going to have the energy
to go to the party Saturday night.

So, So which am I choosing?

If you're doing that,
then that's not normal.

If it's really about energy budgeting,
if you are struggling to get through

your day and feeling really tired,
at some point, some people with

chronic fatigue, depending on their
root cause may be tired all day

long and their energy is always low.

Other people, depending on their
root cause of chronic fatigue, can

have energy that goes up and down.

And I think this is one of the things that
gets missed because some people feel like,

well, I feel really good in the morning,
but I'm crashing by the afternoon.

And so they don't think that
they have chronic fatigue.

The other thing that I, um, One of the
classic signs of chronic fatigue is this

thing called post exertional malaise,
which is where you are more tired

after doing more than you usually do.

For some people who are really
sick with chronic fatigue, this

means that they did dishes and the
laundry and now they're in bed.

Or on the couch and can't do anything else
because they overdid it for other people.

This means you went on a five mile
hike instead of a two mile hike and

you're in bed or you're exhausted or
you don't feel like you can do more.

I've, I've done that a couple
of times with this long COVID.

it's really common, especially as people
are healing and, and, um, uh, you know,

then you have a good day or a couple
of good days and whether, uh, you know,

a five mile hike is a great reason.

Usually it's catching up with errands
and chores and things, but there's that.

Tendency.

We're like, I have energy.

I'm going to use it.

And then you're back, you know?

So, um, I love, and I, I love that
you clarified the, the up and down.

Cause sometimes people think chronic
fatigue means I never, ever have energy.

Um, and, and so, you know, I'm then
thinking back to like, oh, you know,

when I was, And how do we differentiate?

Because I had sometimes, especially back
when I was not well, and I know when you

were diagnosed as well, chronic fatigue
was kind of thrown at you as a, like, we

don't, you're tired, we don't know why.

Like here's a, here's a label.

Um, and I, that was something, you
know, I have had rheumatoid arthritis

that was active and so I was exhausted.

Um, they did end up, you know, I
think back then too, fibromyalgia was

another like pain, pain unexplained.

Here's another label.

Um, so I had all of the labels and that,
that, know, just conserving your energy.

I mean, I had to rest when my kids were
at school or I would never make it through

that afternoon, you know, nighttime.

I think if you're like.

I just remember just waiting for bedtime.

Oh, I

Couldn't wait until the kids were in bed.

It was

I've so, I still relate.

I've still been there.

You're just watching the clock, like,
especially when they're younger and

they'd like have all that, like,
they kind of have their frustrated

outbursts around six o'clock and
you're just like, oh, cannot wait.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I did this.

I had to do the same thing.

I'm just going to pop.

I'll answer your question.

I'm just going to pop this.

Because I think it's important for
people who are struggling with fatigue

and in their healing journey like you
and I have been that it can be really

powerful to shift your schedule if
you can, if you have the freedom to.

So I knew that that second
time I, I would, I crashed.

I was very, very
exhausted, but had to work.

So I spent a lot of time.

reshifted my schedule.

So I was seeing patients in the
morning and I literally turned

into a pumpkin at about 1 30.

I get it.

I know that feeling.

out of the clinics, big smile
on my face, big stack of

charts, you know, see you later.

Zoom home.

My dog knew what time it was.

She would nap.

She was my nap buddy.

She would wait till I got under the duvet.

Then she would pop in and we
would sleep for like two hours.

I'd get up, I do my
charts and pick up my kid.

And that was, you know, do
the evening shift, which was,

Kid and dinner on the bed.

Yeah, I get it.

And not everybody you
were working for yourself.

You were able to do that.

And obviously not everybody can do that.

I was at a point where I was unable to
work and luckily had finances saved.

Um, that was allowed me to do that.

Or I can't even, and I was a single
mom, so I can't even imagine how I

would have done it if I, if I didn't
have that flexibility at the time.

Um, so it just,

Yeah, and I think that
that brings another point.

Of course, there's different places
where people have different flexibility

and I feel very lucky that I had that
flexibility with being my own boss and

I could direct my schedule that way.

And I think that there needs to
be a call out for this condition

to be better understood.

And I really think that people who,
you know, anyone listening who may be a

leader of, you know, In a, in a corporate
business or a manager, any kind of place,

the people who are struggling with these
chronic invisible illnesses, if they

could be allowed time to have a break in
the middle of the day, it could be huge.

I mean, when I was recovering
from long COVID, the power of a

15 minute break was substantial.

If I could just lie down and stop
for 15 minutes, two or three times

throughout the day, it was huge.

So if we could just give people
permission who are high functioning,

or, you know, just everyone needs this.

You know, if we could just.

Well, that's a great way to
prevent the, the chronic illness in

Totally.

Totally.

Like I'm actually tired.

I need to rest.

My body's giving me a signal.

I need to pay attention to it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which I'm, I'm assuming is
kind of a key thread, right?

Even just listening to your story is
like, Superwoman crash, superwoman

crash, you know, um, and that's,
it's, that's in one way or another.

I think so many of us do that, right?

The, the, um, especially women, we
tend to take care of everybody else.

And, um, you know, if you had a
broken leg, you would go get that.

You know, attended to, but when you've
got these symptoms that creep in, the

fatigue, maybe the aches and pains, the
feeling, I remember how old I felt in

my thirties and I'm like, I, I literally
didn't think I would live to see 50.

And I'm like, I can't believe at
54 I could feel, you know, so much

younger than I did in my thirties.

Yeah, I totally, I totally can identify.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, I think that, um, there's a couple
of things that you mentioned here that

I think are really important where one
of the reasons that we ignore symptoms

is because we do tend to think one,
we do live in a push culture where

we just need to push and perform and
we don't really listen to our bodies.

We don't really understand.

That we are more than just this physical
body where this physical body emotional

body and this energetic body and sometimes
they need different pieces of attention.

Um, I was so sick because when I was
down flat in bed because all three bodies

were crashed out like my spiritual body
my emotional body and my physical body.

We're all depleted.

A lot of us who are dealing with,
with complex chronic illnesses.

And invisible illnesses, we may have
one or other body, one of the bodies

that can kind of pull us along and
give us the juice to keep pushing.

And yet we're not really allowed
in this culture to sit back and go,

okay, what's really going on with me?

And what do I really need?

The other problem is just the, the.

Horrible name that chronic fatigue
has because everybody feels tired at

some point and, and because you do
look so good and the labs look normal.

It's very different than saying I have
cancer or I have this, you know, a broken

leg or something that's obvious to others.

People don't bring you lasagna when
you say I have chronic fatigue.

cook dinner

Yeah, they don't do that.

They just stop inviting you to
social events because you're

always saying no, thank you.

And, and it, it, yeah.

Yeah.

So I think, I think it's a lot about
listening to your body and noticing

what needs to go needs to happen.

And yes, me pushing myself and feeling
like I needed to be better than

I was or proving myself or all of
that stuff was definitely happening.

And part of my triggers, and there
are other triggers that are very

physical that can lead people down
the path into chronic, into chronic

fatigue and long COVID, sure.

And I want to also touch on, cause
we've mentioned chronic fatigue and

long COVID, I want to touch on ME.

Can you just, it's not something we've
talked about on the podcast at all.

Um, can you share with
listeners a little bit about

Yeah, I will.

And, and I, and I want to say it in a way
as an apology to those people listening

because well so chronic fatigue syndrome
is the name that has been used in this

country, but we're really trying to
switch it over to me which is myalgic

Myalgic encephalitis means that there's
something going on, inflammation in the

brain that's, that's impacting the body.

And that's exactly what is going on.

The brain is inflamed when you're
dealing with somebody who has

chronic fatigue, ME, long COVID.

It's happening in all of them.

That's the commonality between them.

Is this brain inflammation?

What causes that brain inflammation in
somebody and how, what was the setup to

get to that brain inflammation is unique
between each person and what your setup

is, is going to be part of your path to
healing, what your triggers were to get

into this state of myalgic encephalitis.

unique for you.

And I've mapped out five that are
very common and figuring out what

which one of those for which 1, 2, 3
or 5 of them are for you can be very

helpful and establishing your pattern
to healing your path to healing,

but it's really the same thing.

So magic encephalitis I was just
listening to every four years the Um,

NIH National Institute of Health does
a, what, what's the latest research

on chronic fatigue, ME, and now
they've added long COVID in there.

And these people are really pushing for
us physicians to start using myalgic

encephalitis and drop the chronic fatigue.

I think it's going to be a slow process.

I still use both because I
don't, because it's not known

it's right.

Sure.

Well, that's why we'd
started the conversation by

talking about chronic fatigue

Right.

Right.

people with health struggles
have heard of chronic fatigue.

Um, but, but M.

E.

really does, you know, is chronic fatigue
again still can be kind of considered

imaginary sometimes, whereas, whereas,
you know, encephalitis is like, oh,

wait, there's inflammation in the brain.

brain is on fire.

Oh, maybe I will bring you lasagna.

Right.

It's so true.

But sadly, I think even even, you
know, for the people suffering, there

is this relief of like, because like
you said, so often, the labs that are

being run, especially in traditional
Western medicine, you know, oh, your

blood works fine, your blood works fine.

And there is this relief when
there's something that that shows

up like, oh, this is actually,
you know, physical, physiological.

And yeah, it could also be energetic
and spiritual and all the other

things, but it, it is still
manifesting in a physical condition.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Let's touch on the five common triggers.

Um, and I'm, and you
already alluded to it.

I remember when I first started doing
this work professionally, I was still

in the like root cause singular, you
know, like what, and it's never singular.

It almost is just, you know, order of go.

Um, but, but what are in your
experience, especially particularly for

ME and even it sounds like long COVID
is kind of right in there as well.

Yeah, I consider long COVID
to be the same in this case.

So one of the, the first root cause
I call the gateway root cause,

which is the hormone triangle.

So this is, are your, your adrenals or
it's really your hypothalamic pituitary

axis, but adrenal is just so much easier.

Your adrenals, your thyroid, and
your ovary or testes for male.

And this is the gateway one, because
it's exactly what we're talking about

with this push culture, with this,
I'm just going to do more with this.

Yeah, I can hold this kid in this arm
and this kid in this arm and, you know,

cook dinner with my foot and, you know,
be thinking of the email I need to

write for work, you know, no problem.

I got it.

We are going to survive.

Piece of cake.

I'm an octopus.

Yeah, so, um, that one is the gateway
root cause, and it can be a really, those

people tend to have, well, it depends on
which root cause, but they're, they each,

each root cause has its own energy pattern
that I'm listening for when I'm listening

to people to help diagnose which one.

The other one is
mitochondrial dysfunction.

The mitochondria are the little, the
little energy, energy powerhouses inside

of our cells that create our energy.

And they can be functioning,
they can be burning dirty and

giving you not enough energy.

If you have post exertional malaise,
you have a mitochondrial problem.

And that's a number one key.

The third root cause is related
to the mitochondria, which

are, which is toxic overload.

And I see this a lot.

So that was

yeah.

Right.

So that was me with the heavy metals.

That was, that can be, that was,
has also been me with the mold and

mycotoxins in my house and my clinic and
my car, and, you know, and it can also

be from the glyphosate in our foods.

It can be from so many things.

It can also be removed.

So these things, I don't want people to
put their head in the sand fear around

the fact that we have all these toxins.

We do, and yet we can be empowered
to know what we can do every

single day to reduce our load.

It's just a time for
us to take more action.

It's not a time to stay in fear around it.

The toxic overload is huge.

The fourth is chronic infection.

This can be a bacterial
infection, a fungal infection,

it can be a viral infection.

Viruses are huge.

I mean, when the pandemic hit, I knew
we were going to have a second pandemic

of, of chronic fatigue ME, because
viruses and stress are huge in terms

of triggering people into into, into
a chronic fatigue ME kind of cycle.

Well, and either, either one of
those, I mean, just the experience

of that time period was enough,
the chronic stress alone,

Right.

and then add in a viral component in
it, and a pretty unique virus that,

A very tricky, a very
tricky virus for sure.

Yeah.

And, um, A lot of us are running
around with a chronic viral load,

and most people, we all have viruses
in us, we have many viruses in us.

Some have names, some don't.

Very few of them have very
good testing for them.

And those viruses can take advantage
of us when we are under stress.

So, so during the pandemic, a lot of
people were under stress, and that

alone could reactivate an Epstein
Barr virus, a latent Epstein Barr

virus, even if you never got it.

Even if you never got COVID, you
still could have had a reactivated

virus, uh, chronic infections.

So chronic infections are huge, and I
think that's one of the low hanging fruit

that a lot of doctors miss, and a lot
of people miss, because again, there's

so many things that we can do to treat
those viruses, and you get your energy

back, and it feels so good when you do.

See, you make me so happy.

So, so often I'm a big like labs, deep
labs up front and like you and then

that intake of listening, you can,
you know, you always energetically are

guided of what seems really likely.

And so often people want me to, you know,
because I get it labs are expensive.

Um, and, and they're like, well, you
know, do I need the viral panel too?

And I'm like, I would, you know, let's,
let's really look at all of these

things, um, because chances are many
of them, like you said, are there.

It's what is the priority?

Um,

exactly.

Yeah, right, exactly.

Yeah, I do the same thing
when I'm working with people.

I feel like I'm a very left
brain, right brain doctor.

So I'm very left brain in terms of my, my
testing and my algorithms, my differential

diagnosis, what I'm really thinking here.

Yeah.

I want to bring in stuff, be sure
I'm not missing any elephants

in the room, that kind of thing.

And then there's that right brain side of
really listening and feeling in and what

else going on with all the person, you
know, the physical body, the emotional,

the energetic, and, and how does this
their story and what I'm sensing is

going on with them relate to these labs?

And then how do we
choose that place to go?

I think a lot of doctors get
overwhelmed and shut the door.

Literally, or just in their minds
or energetically to people who

come in with all these complex
symptoms because they feel lost too.

And this is a way to break it down so
that you can understand where do I start?

If you're a practitioner, where
do I start with this person?

If you're, if you're the person
with the experience with the

symptoms, where do I start?

Which root cause is the biggest root
that will have the biggest impact?

Yeah,

we need, and I know I can tell, you
know, you see this in, in your practice,

we all, we need the wins, right?

We need to feel that needle move
because otherwise it is a lot.

And it does take work
and, and participation.

Um, you know, this whole idea of the
magic pill, uh, clearly is not, no.

Doesn't work.

Yeah.

So, and what is number five?

Number five.

Yeah.

Number five is looking at
the limbic emotional brain.

love it.

Yeah.

And this is huge.

And this so obviously interacts with
all the other, all the other root

causes that we already talked about
because that limbic brain is, is, is.

Is that emotional seat of the brain and
it is connected to the most beautiful

long nerve in the body called the vagus
nerve and that vagus nerve touches all

these different organs and the vagus
nerve sends information up to the brain

and the brain sends information down
to the body through that vagus nerve.

And so you can have, um, This can
be the source of a vicious cycle for

somebody who is struggling with complex
chronic illness and it can be so

powerful when you get this corrected.

So what can happen is that whether you
have a toxic exposure or viral exposure

or you're under immense amounts of stress
and your hypothalamic pituitary axis

is thrown off or you are, You know, gut
problems, you've got SIBO, dysbiosis, you

know, IBS, Crohn's, any of those things
can send information from the vagus nerve

up to the brain going, it's not okay down
here, we're not really not doing too well.

And then you can have this, especially
in a person who has any background

subconscious stuff, and we all do.

Right.

Like, so any person,

Right.

Any person with a brain, we inherited it.

It's from early childhood trauma stuff.

We all have that stuff that until
we become conscious of it, it is

unconscious and we are reacting to it.

That hooks in, in that
subconscious mind with the physical

experience of the vagus nerve.

vagus nervous having of
we're not okay down here.

And it sounds off this danger signal
and that danger signal then comes

down and starts having impact on
your immune system, your hormones.

It can shut down that mitochondria
into that cell danger response.

So it's a little, literally hibernating.

So you don't have energy.

It becomes a real cycle.

And so.

Yeah.

I love that, that you,
we're, we're so aligned.

Um, because what I've found and I see,
I'm sure you see it all the time too.

People are doing the things, right?

They've worked on the detox.

They've worked on the viruses.

They've worked, you know,

Their diet's perfect.

Right.

style did just for them,
you know, all of it.

And if they haven't done
address that fifth piece.

the healing isn't there, or
it's really temp short lived,

temporary, maybe a little reprieve,
and then they're right back

Right.

It

more and more and more
constricted and restricted.

Just to try to feel okay and,
and so I love that I used to joke

like I'm like, wow, I, I really
wasn't, I was a good coach.

I wasn't a great coach because
we always got to that stuff.

And now it's like, no,
we're in front loading.

Like could just, if you want
to heal faster, you've got to

be addressing this fifth piece.

Like really.

Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

And I've been doing even deeper,
more work into that and realizing how

important that is because what it does
is it helps regulate your autonomic

nervous system and your autonomic
nervous system rules everything.

So you need to get
that, that into balance.

And I think it's, it's so important.

In today's world, because our stress
response system is activated all the time.

I mean, partly from the physical
things I've talked about in terms of

the, just the chemicals and the talk,
all the environment, all that stuff.

And then, and then also what we've
already talked about, the culture, the

culture of you got to do all, you know,
Instant access all the time, bing,

bing, bing, you know, what was I doing?

Oh, just this constant stress
it of input is challenging.

And then, of course, the we're on a lot
of we're in a lot of existential places

with the planet being where it is.

And, you know, there's a lot of There's
a lot of stuff happening right now that's

tough on us, which is again, to me, a call
to say, Hey, there are all these things

that can be leading your body to be in
this stress state, which is not healthful.

Right.

what, and yet we do have the
ability to consciously choose

to work on this and to heal it.

We can bring that in because the
body ultimately wants to be healthy,

wants to be in alignment, and
we just need to learn how to tap

in to trigger that in ourselves.

I love that you say that and, and the,
this idea, I hear it all the time.

People come in and they're
like, I'm not stressed.

And then they tell me about their life.

And I'm like, I am.

I, so I say like, Honestly, if you
are not actively working on getting

out of the sympathetic stress state,
you're not doing yourself justice.

And we can't, that's why, you know,
you can eat the right foods and

handle toxins and do the right things.

But if you're never in the
parasympathetic state, you

Physiologically cannot heal like

Yeah, absolutely.

and so I love that you, you
know, you're like, Oh no, this

is a really important piece.

And it is active.

It really is active for, for
somebody to, you know, to think

that they don't need to take steps.

To, like you said, to be
too busy to meditate or, and

you don't have to meditate.

There are other ways.

But if you're not actively making
that a part of your routine,

this, this is a problem for sure.

Yeah.

I call it brushing and flossing the mind,
um, because it's just kind of becomes

it's as it becomes incorporated into your
daily practice, then the nervous system

has a chance to actually calm down.

And this is a place where a lot of people
do well with getting guidance and support

Sure.

Sure.

And to, as to create routines and, and

Yeah, it's, it's also hard to read
the label if you're inside the jar and

so, and so it can be really helpful
to have somebody outside of you

going like, you know, it seems like
there's a pattern here, but I'd like

to reflect back at you or, you know,

Have you considered?

have you considered, yeah.

But even like what you were saying with
that person that comes in and you're

stressed out here in their story and they
say they're not stressed well sounds to

me like they're in freeze, or they're

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Well, and

know, they having a stress response,

We get used to, right?

Like if this is what life looks
like, you just think this is life.

I had, this is not stress
related, but it is that it's

the inside of the jar example.

Um, I have a client who's in her sixties
and we were cleaning up products and, and,

um, she switched toothpaste to a clean
toothpaste and said, literally as soon

as she switched toothpaste, she asked her
husband, does toothpaste hurt your mouth?

And he was like, what
are you talking about?

She said, my whole life,
toothpaste hurt my mouth.

And I didn't know that it's not
like that for everybody, right?

We only know what our
experience is in our body.

And you know, obviously, yes, she had
toxicity issues along with other things.

But, but that's such a, it's such a fun
example because We really don't know,

right, until we feel better or until
when you're in that stress state all

the time, you don't know you're in it

right,

unless you have experienced recently
what it feels like to be out of it.

So I love, I love that you say that.

And I love that saying.

I'm trying to read the
label from inside the jar.

It's perfect.

yeah, yeah.

Well, I think you also raise another
point that I think is really people get

stuck in when they are dealing with the
fatigue and long COVID types of things,

or what you're with your rheumatoid
experience too, is that, that feeling

of you kind of get used to what your own
world is like, I always call it, you're

living under your own glass ceiling, that
that ceiling that, and for me, my goal.

For myself and for all the people
is to completely be, to really break

free and to completely be free.

So you don't need to be
doing the energy budgeting.

And I, because I felt really blessed
when I got lung COVID because of all the

knowledge I had with chronic fatigue and
having had the experience of getting back

150%, I knew it's, I know it's possible.

Like I, and I hold that.

And that is, that is my, that is the goal.

And that's the goal I hold
for everyone who I see.

And I do see it as being a possibility.

Well, it really is.

I had, and I know often it just
doesn't come up on the podcast much.

Um, my first go round with COVID,
COVID itself was like nothing,

you know, not a big deal.

And about a month later I woke up, I
mean, it was kind of like a light switch.

I woke up and felt like all
of my RA symptoms were back,

literally just one morning.

Yeah,

And of course, along with that was
a little bit of that PTSD stress

totally.

like, Oh my gosh, add to it that
this is what I do for a living.

And then I get the extra mean voices
of like, you're a fraud because

you're going to be sick again, all the

Right.

And, and it really was,
and again, viral, right?

This was a post viral
inflammatory response.

It was all the things, um, you
talk about brain inflammation.

I had had A head injury in 2020
that was pretty significant that

I had recovered from and a lot of
those symptoms came back as well

because guess what else was inflamed?

Gleel priming.

You got primed during that concussion.

If not before, for sure.

Yeah.

And it wasn't my first concussion.

It was a bad one.

Um, and so it always does
become the gift, right?

It's like, how, how is this a gift?

And it's always a gift.

I think anything we go through
is a gift for the people we work

with, because we're able to just,
you know, bring so much more.

So I love that, that you shared that
because, you know, we're human too.

And there's always an
opportunity to up level.

And like you said, we're always,
we're, you, we're always working on it.

I can tell you're always
working on it, right?

This is, we're, we're
in this all together.

We're, you know, it's not, it's not that
idea of like, Oh, I'm the expert, but

I've never, you know, I studied this.

It's like, no,

Uh huh.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's definitely different if
you've lived it, for sure.

Yeah,

amazing.

I love the the work you're doing.

And and again, the it's
such a it's a population.

Unfortunately, it's a growing population.

Um, but it's a population of people that
a need the information, but they they

need the You know the healing and and
just I'm sure there's so many people

listening that are like, oh my gosh She
knows what's going on inside my body.

I Love it.

So before we go what is one step?

Listeners can take today and
you can pick from anything to

start to improve their health.

I really think the one
step, if I was to say one

I know it's so hard

yeah, the one thing is really,
it's really to believe.

It's really to believe that there is a
next step for you, where you can take

a step where you can get empowered
and move forward in your healing.

There is something there for those of you
who have been trying so many things and

just feel like you make a little bit of.

Improvement and or not very much.

I say keep knocking on doors, you know,
it's like there's there is going to be

a door that's going to open for you and
it's going to make a huge shift and maybe

it's maybe it's maybe you've been just
going down the same path and you need

to try something a little bit different.

You know, you've been doing the perfect
diet as we've talked about or something.

And maybe it's on one of these other
levels that we mentioned today.

But I would say, just keep having that
hope and knowing and believing that

there's a way that your body can heal.

It's just, what is it
that your body needs?

Your being needs right now to make,
make that next step towards healing.

I love that is so, is so important.

And I'll reiterate, you already said
it, but the body is designed to heal.

It wants to heal.

Um, and so I, that's a beautiful and
essential first step is, is the believing.

So believe and knock.

We'll combine them.

Believe in Nokia.

Believe and keep knocking and trust
yourself when it's not the right fit.

Move on.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

You don't need to keep doing things
that aren't working for sure.

That's a sign.

I mean, that's what I do as
a practitioner is I'm going,

well, nope, this isn't working.

We got to move.

We got to go somewhere else.

That's what I'm watching for.

It's like, cause I want
that breakthrough, right?

So

Uh, love it.

Love it.

So where is the best place for people?

I know I'm always listening
to podcasts on the go.

That's my podcast time.

Um, where's the best place
for listeners to find you?

to go to the website, drjennytofankion.

com and on there, if you're curious what
your root cause might be, there's a quiz

that you can take where I go, I created it
based on the algorithm I use in my clinic.

And you can take that and check that out.

I have a YouTube healing with Dr.

Jenny, natural healing with Dr.

Jenny.

I should know the name of
my own YouTube channel.

okay.

Healing naturally with Dr.

Jenny

Something.

Go to the website, people.

on the website.

drjennytufenkian.com.

You can find all the, all
the things right from there.

I love it.

See, we're really, this is, this is real.

Yep.

Amazing.

Dr.

Jenny, so much.

You have shared some
real gold with us today.

It's been such a pleasure to be with you.

I really enjoyed our time together.

Thank you so much.

And thank you so much
for the work that you do.

And thank you to all of
those who are listening.

Really appreciate you.

And for everyone who is listening,
remember, you can get the

transcripts and show notes,
including all the links for Dr.

Jenny at inspired living.

show.

I hope you had a great time and
enjoyed this episode as much as I did.

I'll see you next week.