Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Killer Quote: "It’s not just about being a shark; in the chemicals and energy world, you need to be the right kind of matchmaker. Balancing between enabling innovation and ensuring sustainability can make a real difference in this industry." — Rob van der Meij
Welcome to The Chemical Show™, where chemicals mean business. If you're looking for insights from business leaders of mid-market to Fortune 50, this is the place to be.
Featuring interviews with industry executives, you’ll hear about the key trends impacting chemicals and plastics today: growth, sustainability, innovation, business transformation, digitalization, supply chain, talent, strategic marketing, customer experience and much more.
Episodes are published every Tuesday.
Host Victoria Meyer gained her industry experience at leading companies, including Shell, LyondellBasell and Clariant. Before taking those insights to the broader industry. Victoria brings a informed and engaging perspective, making this podcast not just about the chemical business, but about people, leadership, business challenges and opportunities, and so much more.
The Chemical Show brings you the latest insights into trillion-dollar chemical industry. You will hear from leading industry executives as they discuss their companies, business, markets, and leadership. You’ll learn how chemical, specialty chemical, petrochemical, material science and plastics companies are making an impact, responding to the changing business environment, and discussing best practices and approaches you can apply in your business.
This podcast is a must-listen for executives and business leader everywhere, leading B2B process businesses and industries, driving strategy, harnessing customers and suppliers, and driving business innovation.
Victoria: Hi, this is Victoria.
Welcome back to another great
episode of the chemical show.
This is part two of our special series
with Rob Vandermy of Capricorn Partners.
If you miss part one, which was published
last week, go back and listen to get
the full context of the conversation.
Um, and in the second part of the series,
we're going to continue this discussion
that I had with Rob diving into the
dynamics of corporate investment.
The critical role of innovation and the
role that venture capital plays in that.
We talk about partnering.
We talk about business development.
We talk about the importance of
leadership and a whole lot more.
So Rob shares his insights from both the
corporate world and the venture capital
world, and giving that perspective that
I think you're going to find valuable.
I know I did.
So stay tuned for some more
valuable insights from my
conversation with Rob Vandermeier
right here on The Chemical Show.
A key component of the modern
world economy, the chemical
industry delivers products and
innovations to enhance everyday life.
It is also an industry in transformation
where chemical executives and
workers are delivering growth and
industry changing advancements while
responding to pressures from investors,
regulators, and public opinion.
Discover how leading companies
are approaching these challenges
here on the chemical show.
Join Victoria Meyer, president
of Progressio Global and
host of the chemical show.
As she speaks with executives across the
industry and learns how they are leading
their companies to grow, transform, and
push industry boundaries on all frontiers.
Here's your host, Victoria Meyer.
Victoria: And in my observation, and
certainly the companies that, that we've
already talked about that Capricorn is,
um, invested in and has made And so when
I look at, um, technology companies,
there's this whole aspect of partnering.
Um, and frankly, a lot of partnering
with potentially go to market
partners as well as end use partners.
So I think about Avantium and I
know they've had a longstanding
relationship with Carlsberg beer, right?
To to.
Pull through the product.
Um, how do you guys get involved
in that partnering aspect?
And is that where, where you're looking
at what the rest of the, um, I was
going to say symposium not the right
word, but the rest of the, the syndicate
is, are you getting engaged in there?
And is that part of
your decision criteria?
Is that something that you help with?
Rob: Part of our decision criteria.
Are these possible you,
Victoria: Okay.
Hmm.
Rob: Do they make sense, you
know, , uh, but, but also, um,
we often make those connections.
You know, and, and that's because, in
a starter people are, you know, they,
they, they have a hundred things at
the same time to do, you know, and, and
it ranges from, uh, we, we need paper
for the printer to, to, we need to
find the strategic partner, you know,
it's, it's, so we, we try to help them
on that also to pace that, because
you don't have to do everything at the
same time, don't get involved in five
partnerships, you know, that's, that's,
that's, uh, Um, but also think about
who's the first, who's the second.
Um, and then what type of
partnership do we talk about now?
Is it a developmental partnership?
it's like, okay, who develops what
IP, who owns background foreground,
who gets to the go to market.
Um, or is it about technology proof?
Like, Hey, can you help
us or application proof?
It's those types of things
you got to think about.
And, and really then, then look at it.
Like if you take Econic, they, they,
um, you know, I'm going to produce,
uh, material at Monument Chemicals.
which is great, and
Victoria: Yeah.
Excellent.
Rob: Getting really close, uh, but they
have this partnership with Unilever on
the surfactant side, you know, which gives
you a lot of credibility in the future
to go to the ethoxylators and say, Hey,
one of your biggest customers is, is,
is, you know, they know these molecules.
So, so it's this proof getting on, on,
whereas Monument is on the polio side.
So it's, it's the propoxylation
step where we insert the waste CO2.
So these are two things
that don't bite each other.
But you have to think about that, that you
work with partners that are also not, not
even indirectly competing with each other.
And, and some startups to say if I'll
go to talk to everyone and then let's
see how they work, but in an early stage
partnership, it's really, you want to
have a good exchange of information
and really learn and understand.
And, and if you talk with too many at
the same time, that's not going to work.
So it's these types of things that,
that we, we try to help the portfolio
companies on and not saying what
they do, but really think it through.
Victoria: Hmm.
Rob: You know, and, and then, yeah,
they, they still make the decision,
Victoria: Right.
Because at this point you're an investor
and a board member, but you're not
the decision maker on these things.
Yeah, it's uh,
Rob: Which sometimes is like, okay.
Victoria: Well
Rob: But again, there's the,
the good thing is that there are
also other people in the board.
So you get different perspectives
and that's very, very healthy.
Now, if you have financials
investors in the boards, they give
you a very different perspective.
You've got other venture capital
companies with a different experience set.
That's, that's really
a healthy perspective.
And that's kind of also the big
difference with when you innovate in a
corporate, because in a corporate, you
don't have that diversity of thought.
Yeah.
There's there because it's
all the same corporate think.
Victoria: Right.
Rob: That's why I think corporates
are not so suitable for this type
of early stage work and investment.
Victoria: Well, if these ideas
don't appear to move the needle
in the early stage, right?
So, in a corporate environment, whether
you're shell, others, you're looking for
technologies that actually add a zero or.
Or something to your bottom line and
so it has to be scalable and I just
don't think they have the patience
to get to that point of scalability.
There's systems that are designed
to be robust from a financial
perspective, a, um, uh, managing in,
uh, innovation are not really geared
towards new and novel innovation.
They're geared towards improvements
because these new and novel
innovations, by their very nature
have to start really small.
And it takes a lot of
patients to get to that point.
Rob: Yeah, but at the same time,
I think it's also, it's, it's
the patience is an element.
It's also the lack of long term vision
and a reward for the long term vision.
Now, if, if you think about
it, CEOs today, they get
rewarded by stock buybacks.
Victoria: Yeah.
Rob: Which in my mind, you should fire
any CEO that buys back stock because
he's basically telling the investors, I
have no clue what to do with your money.
Victoria: Yeah.
Corporate Finance 101.
Right.
Rob: That to me, and don't forget
in the past, it was not allowed
for companies to buy back stocks.
um, so, um,
for a good reason.
Um, but, but go back to innovation.
That's a different topic.
If, if, if companies
don't innovate themselves.
They have to mentally prepare that
they have to do merger and acquisitions
in addition to organic growth.
Now, and then it's a
question, when do you do that?
Some companies have a philosophy
to say, Oh, we operate businesses.
We're very good at that.
And where needed, we acquire,
which is a very valid strategy.
Yeah.
There's, there's no right or wrong.
But, but if corporates don't innovate,
You know, what's their long term future.
And if, if, if, if you take Shell,
how did Shell got into the business of
molecules for detergents, because they
had some paraffin feedstock left that
they had no clue what to do with, right.
And they got into that business.
And then, you know, from the paraffins
later on, they developed an alcohol
business and needed to sell ethoxylates
to, to get rid of all the alcohol
and to get rid of the EO as so.
Um, but if you don't innovate in that
area, you'll never get to that next phase.
And, and the patients for long term
innovation, if we go back to shell at
a shell GTL process, It took a long
time, but, but without that, they
could never have built Pearl in Qatar.
And without Pearl in Qatar,
they would never have had the
concession for the LNG deal.
Now, so, so technology also creates
a long term strategic competitive
advantage and on the timeline
of a company it's not that long.
On the timeline of management
and executive rotation.
It is way too long.
And I think that's a key issue that
that, know, if you think about the
chemicals executives today, don't
take a look at the website of chemical
companies, how much diversity is
truly in the executive system.
Yeah.
Victoria: Not much.
Rob: How many of the people
there truly came in through
innovation into the executive team?
hardly anyone.
You don't get rewarded for innovation.
You get rewarded for avoiding risk.
You get rewarding for, for asset
management squeeze, you get rewarding for,
you know, for optimization for efficiency,
et cetera, But, but far less for having
a strategic vision and, and almost
zero for, for doing innovative things.
So the startup system is essential for
the chemicals industry to innovate.
You know, and if you think about
the, the transition that the chemical
industry is going to make with,
with feedstocks and applications
and different products, different
products that need to be developed.
Victoria: Mm hmm.
Rob: For, for the battery industry,
for the electrolysis industry, uh, for
the materials industry, the consumer
demand, uh, light weighting of cars,
light weighting of airplanes, all that
kind of stuff that that's largely coming
from the startup community, but then
the corporates have a huge opportunity
to scale that, you know, but, but
their hesitation to step in is, is
like, Oh, it's, it's not finished yet.
It's not proven yet.
Yeah.
And, and, oh, it's, it's, and of
course, there's the not invented
here syndrome, you know, um, but
at the same time, the opportunity
that they have today is enormous.
Victoria: Hmm.
Rob: You know, and, and if, if, if I
take industrial biotechnology as an
example, where can make certain molecules
now way easier through microbes.
And you can then disconnect your supply
chain from the thermal cracker part.
You can kind of cherry
pick in the value chain.
Which molecules do you want to do?
No.
And that's, that, that
realization is starting to come.
A couple of companies are
early adopters, a couple of
companies will, will lag forever.
Victoria: Right.
And it seems to me, um, we already
talked about kind of the biosurfactant.
So I see a lot of the partnerships and I
see this as, uh, one product area where I
think we're going to start seeing, we're
already seeing the corporate stepping in
and partnering to bring it down to bring
it to fruition and bring it to market.
And that that'll probably accelerate,
but it also sounds like there's some
lessons that we can learn from, uh,
the life sciences and pharmaceuticals
to your point who actively seek out
product innovation, uh, elsewhere
and know how to bring it into their
system to build it to commercial scale.
Rob: Yeah.
And I think at the buyer's effect, it's
actually one of the shortest value
chains in the chemicals industry.
Now, if you think about a bio surfactant,
it's, it's making it in a formulation
and it goes into a consumer product.
Victoria: Yeah.
Rob: Now that that's, that's one
of the shortest value change you
find in, in, in the industry.
There's some in polymers, but, but even
in polymers, you go through making the
polymer, compounding it, extruding it.
following, shaping, whatever.
So yeah, but, but buyer's effectiveness
is one where consumers also have
a direct impact and understanding.
Victoria: Yes.
Rob: So that one is, is I think, a
good area to start and accelerate.
And the other reason is buyer
surfactants is largely formulation,
you know, a lot of the buyers in, in the
surfactant market, uh, it, it it's more
about the, uh, the functional role of
the molecule than what it looks like now.
So, so it's far less a,
a specification product.
It's really about trying and testing.
I remember in, in detergents,
you have these 20 washing
cloths and you know, you just
Victoria: Which one works?
Yeah.
Rob: And that's, I think a very
good area to innovate quickly.
Where you both have small scale and
large scale customers to try now.
But, but if you want to try something
new in polyethylene, well, you know,
the, the large polyethylene units,
you know, that's a different thing.
So you've got to think about, and that's
for us also an investability question,
are there small scale entry points?
And if I take Trillium as an example,
uh, uh, Trillium makes bio acrylonitrile.
Acrylonitrile facilities are all
under 200, 000 tons a year because
it's difficult to make, it's
dangerous to make, and you need
a lot of propylene to make it.
Victoria: Okay.
Rob: You make it where the propylene is.
Um, at the same time, the market
is, is a little bit fragmented.
There is about 35 global supply units.
And over a thousand customers and
the acrylic fiber people, they buy
acrylonitrile in large volumes, but the
carbon fiber people buy a little bit now.
So, so our rational to go into this
bio acrylonitrile is like, you know,
Airbus, BMW, Mercedes, carbon fiber
in cars, carbon fiber in bikes, carbon
fiber in all kinds of other, uh,
composites will continue to grow fast.
Now, people would like to get bio carbon
fiber by renewable carbon fiber bio based,
but to make carbon fiber through lignin
or other routes, you make a different
type of carbon fiber and you have to
go through the whole qualification.
Now, but if you then make a drop in
molecule, because in Trillium, the
last, the last step we do is, is
almost identical to the last step
that INEOS does in their process.
so the molecule we make and, and
all the by products are, are 99.
999 percent the same.
So you get a drop in molecule, which
means you don't have to go through
the requalification at Airbus or BMW
to get the carbon fiber approved.
Carbon fiber plants are
spread across the U.
S., you know, and they're
2000 tons, 5000 tons.
So you can build facilities.
Biobased acrylonitrile, you don't have
to be connected to the thermal cracker.
You eliminate them, the transport of a
dangerous material, you know, which is
another aspect of impact and making impact
is not just looking at the greenhouse
gases or the resource efficiency.
It's also safety.
Safety of production
or safety of transport.
You know, and transportation of
chemicals like an acrylonitrile remains.
So anything you can do to shorten
that distance, reduce the exposure
for us is an important impact.
And so at Capricorn, we always, we
always said before ESG was there,
it's about the people and the planet.
The earth has to be a better place with
this company than without this company.
Victoria: I like
Rob: that.
And today we call that ESG investing,
impact investing, article nine, et cetera.
You know,
Victoria: Yeah.
Well, I think it's, I think it's
the right, uh, idea and approach and
it's certainly working for you guys.
So we've, we've talked about
a lot of things so far.
Um, and I know one of the things
you've said is, a great idea
is really the fundamental great
idea, great markets, et cetera.
What's the role of leadership in this?
When you think about leadership at
these companies, um, what's critical
in terms of that and driving success.
What do you guys look for?
Rob: uh, uh, It's different
in the different phases.
You know, when, when you go through
say technology proof technology
scale up, it's, it's a very different
leadership profile when you're
going to build a demonstration plan.
Or when you get into the market
and, and, uh, I don't believe in
the, in the super CEO type thing.
And I know in the U S that that's
always the, the CEO has to be the, the,
the magical superhero for everything.
Uh, we look more at the teams.
You know, and, and a good leader
is, is a good team enabler and,
and a good composer of the teams.
You know, so, so it's, it's more
like a, like an orchestra and the
conductor doesn't play any instrument.
Well, sometimes, but, but he or
she gets to understand how it works
together and, and how to improve it.
Like, yeah, that part needs
stronger, but it's also
determining when do you need that?
If you're not getting into manufacturing
or supply to a customer yet.
You don't need a lot of supply
chain knowledge in your team.
Now, you also got to think about
what kind of skills and attributes
do you need in the team permanently
and what can go temporarily.
And also, so it's, it's
that type of thing.
And then, and then it's
about growing the leadership.
Some CEOs can, can grow with the
business and they stay in a long time.
Some CEOs are good for a certain phase.
Uh, we have in, in two of our portfolio
companies, we have founders with a very
technical orientation and background.
So at some point in time, they move more
to, to the chief scientist or the chief
engineer or the chief technology role.
Uh, and, and then other people get in
to get the business to the next phase.
And part of our role is sometimes
to, to drive that or, or, you know,
and bring that message and convince
people that this is the best way to do
Victoria: Yeah.
Shifting leadership is not
easy, particularly for somebody
that's a founder who doesn't.
logically may recognize that
different skills are needed as
the company changes and evolves.
Um, but emotionally it's hard to let go.
Rob: Yeah.
And, and then, so I've
been on both sides, right?
That emotional side is, is an aspect that,
that we really try to care about, it's
a process and sometimes it is done well.
Sometimes it's not done well.
I mean, boards makes
mistakes on that too.
Victoria: Well, absolutely.
Right.
We, we see that all across the industry
at public and private companies.
Right.
Rob: Yep.
It's, it's, and that's also part of,
of, uh, also in the boards, you have
to be critical also to watch yourself.
Yeah.
And there's VCs, you have to be able to
have some self reflection on these things
and that, that not everything you say
is the magical formula for everything.
So, um, yeah, that's a part too,
you have to be critical about.
Victoria: yeah, yeah, yeah.
When you're successful, it's hard to
sometimes check your ego at the door and
Rob: Yeah.
Victoria: move forward.
So let's so final question here, Rob,
and maybe it's the final question.
We'll see where it is.
Um, you know, when I think about next
steps or investors and investment
funds, where, where are you guys going?
How do people get involved with
VC and how do you guys find your
money and take your money forward?
Rob: So, so we get money from
different sources, you know,
there's, uh, governments typically
have economic development funds.
Yeah.
That are there to promote the
startup industry ecosystems.
So, so they tend to invest
in funds like ours, right?
Because then later on they can
have co investment opportunities.
Um, we get investors from
the insurance industry.
Insurance has a very long
term view about risk.
And they realize climate change transit,
food transition, energy transition
are all big risks to, to the world.
So they, they tend to invest and
they have lots of money to invest.
Um, family offices.
You know, there's, there's some really,
uh, there's some really visionary family
offices that don't look at returns at the
short term, but also at the longer term.
Um, uh, there's all kinds of funds,
you know, there's funds, there's
lots of large, say money management
companies, asset management companies
that then invest in funds like ours.
Victoria: Okay.
Rob: Because for like the private
equity industry, it's important to
have this kind of deal flow now.
So, so there is the people
who invest in private equity.
Can also invest in us because otherwise
their companies don't have to deal flow.
Victoria: Got it.
Rob: So it's really, it's, it's, it's
quite a far fetched, uh, ecosystem.
The, the thing with venture capital is
it's, it's like, it's the, the end of the
tail, you know, so, so when the tail wags
venture capital gets like this, you know.
Victoria: Yeah.
Rob: and, and so when interest rates ride
or rise, there's less money in venture.
Victoria: Got it.
Rob: And even though in the total
money market, it's a small shift for
venture capital, it's a big shift.
So, so that's, that's, that's one.
Um, yeah, so, so that's where
we find our money with, with
these kind of propositions.
And then, of course, in, in, in the
world of, of, of, say, cleantech
and chemistry, there's corporates.
And corporates can
invest in our funds too.
Um, we avoid, To having too many
corporates in a FUD because you
don't want competition and it's
also, uh, it's not your FUD.
Okay?
We don't work for one corporate
because we want to spread the risk
over different market segments,
different sectors, different areas.
But most chemical corporates
are so broad that they could
invest in a fund like ours.
do it.
Some have their own corporate venture
capital, which is sometimes good and bad.
You know, there's, there's
corporate venture capital firms.
They have a good view on the
market and the technologies.
But in a lot of cases, they don't
have a fund, they have a budget.
Victoria: Oh, interesting.
Rob: And corporate
budgets change every year.
Victoria: Yeah.
Rob: So when, when we co invest
with corporate, we consider that
a risk because when there is a
next funding round, you never know
whether the budget is there or not.
You know,
and, and it's, it's, it's, and some say,
oh yeah, we have a long-term budget.
Like, okay, can you decide about that?
Or do you have to go to your
head office to decide about that?
And when they say, oh, we, we always
get approval from head office, like,
yeah, so, so you don't have control,
you know, because if you are the CEO
of, of a 10 or $20 billion, you know,
multinational chemicals, corporate.
And your fund says we need to
invest another 3 million in this
round and you have to go to the CEO
of the 20 billion corporate that
3 million is a nuisance, right?
And, and like, I, yeah,
we cut costs everywhere.
Everybody's on travel restrictions.
You're not going to get it.
And boom.
so for us, that's often very difficult
because when we invest in a company, say
we invest two or 3 million, we plan to
invest 10 to 12 million in a company.
And in the fund, we reserve
that money for that investment.
You know, and, and, and if you
don't have that long term view, and
it's also, we cannot always predict
when does the company need money.
When it goes well, you
may want to accelerate.
So the next funding round comes faster.
When it doesn't go well,
it takes more time.
You need to do an intermediate route,
you know, and, and what we see with
the corporates that they, they have,
you know, they struggle with that.
And it's not the people in the
corporate venture fund, but it's really
the corporate mentality around it.
Victoria: So when you're organizing a
fund, um, people are, your investors are
giving money, but it's also a commitment.
It's not all the money's not all in one
drop where you get a big bucket to spend.
Rob: No, we, we, we have what
we do, there's a call off.
So we have a capital call.
So when somebody commits 10 million
in our fund, right, it's, it typically
starts 10 percent as, as a first call.
Victoria: Got it.
Rob: And then we call the money as needed.
But, at the moment we start to
get access, we start to repay.
Victoria: Got it.
Rob: Yeah, so, so in a lot of times,
uh, you call 70, 80 percent of the
capital and then you start to repay.
So, so it's never 10 million in one go
Victoria: Is that typical for
most of the venture capital funds?
Is that how they all work?
Rob: Yeah, but it's, it is
a, it is a hard commitment.
You know, when you go into
default, you're in big trouble.
Um, at the, at the same time, from
a cash perspective, you know, to a
large corporate, it's nothing, you
know, because any corporate of 20
billion at any point in time has
this money on their cash balance.
So, but the problem that we sometimes,
that we have to explain is an investment
in a fund is a balance sheet item.
You know, it's not an expense.
But in a lot of cases, you
know, corporates put this
under like an R& D expense.
Victoria: Yeah.
Rob: It's not an expense.
It's a balance sheet item.
And if you go to your treasury
department that manages your
money, you know, it's, it's, it's
probably a different view, you know?
But these are very different.
Victoria: It's complex.
I, uh, it's, it's, and I can see
where the challenge is, right?
Because the reality is, um, If
you're sitting inside a corporate,
you don't really think about
where the money's coming from.
You just have a line item, uh, and,
and then understanding how to navigate
that is not always the easiest.
And frankly, you know,
nobody gets trained this way.
You just learn it along the way, right?
Rob: It's on the job training.
Yeah, there's no school for this.
But that's interesting, we offer
to corporates, When they invest in
our fund, we, we offer corporates,
uh, if they invest enough, of
course, a certain secondment option.
Uh, and, and they can send people to us
three months, six months, they join our
team, they get to learn the routine.
We, we also have corporates where
we go to their innovation department
and explain venture capital.
And, and when does it make sense?
We, we look at sharing deal flow, like And
because a lot of the deal flow we see may
not be suited for venture capital, they
might be very well suited for one of our
corporate investors as a partnership, as
a technology scouting, as a, you know,
in, in all kinds of shapes or forms.
So.
We always tell corporates that when
you invest in us, you get a window
on the world that you don't have.
Now you get a, you have this
blind wall, you get an additional
window on the world there.
And that can be quite interesting for
them because it's kind of filtered deal
flow because if, because we don't take
20 corporates in our thoughts, we have
a few, and we really want to understand
from them, What do you think your business
is 10, 20 years from now, we look like?
You know, I also get corporate
sometimes when, when we talk
about our portfolio companies.
They're like, well, we're, we're,
we're not interested to invest
because, uh, this portfolio company
doesn't fit with our current business.
I'm like, yeah, it should not
fit with your current business.
Victoria: That's the point.
Rob: Yeah.
It should fit.
It's, it's an option for future business.
Now, and that's also the point
that when you think about corporate
developments and developments of
new molecules, new materials or new
product lines in a company, it doesn't
get from 0 to 5 years to 200 million.
Now, that takes time.
And that's the part
that surprised me most.
You know, and, and, and getting into
venture, I, I always thought that the
chemicals industry has this, this vision,
you know, and that people in the business
really understand that it takes that
time, but, but as an executive in the
chemicals world, you don't get that time.
Victoria: You don't
Rob: You don't get rewarded
for a new product as you
develop now, 20 years from now.
Victoria: No.
Rob: But, but it's essential, I think,
for, for, for the company or the industry
to continue to build that portfolio.
Victoria: Yeah.
We need to continue to make it happen.
Um, I think the industry went
through a period that felt like a
very lack of innovation, um, maybe
in the nineties and two thousands.
And it's good to see
that we're back at it.
Uh, because it's needed, it's needed
for the future and to change our future.
Rob: If you look at the pharmaceutical
industry, they really understand
that and, and they kind of
made it their business model.
And I think the chemicals industry, you
don't have to go all the way, you know,
but, but a little bit more open attitude,
you know, and, and, you know, investing
in funds like ours and, and, and others,
uh, is, is really can help you to, to
kind of open up and, and understand
the different views in the world.
You know, and, and I think it's,
it's often that you see certain,
certain companies or businesses
are kind of so rigid on, on what
they think their business is.
And at the same time, it's
like, well, you know, you might
be surprised in the future.
Victoria: Absolutely.
Well, well, Rob, I was, I was going
to call you, uh, you know, ask you
about being a shark in a shark tank,
but it sounds like you guys have the
TV show shark tank in the Netherlands.
Rob: We have that too.
Victoria: Okay.
So, so, so your comp you're half
shark tank and a half matchmaker.
Um, it's a little bit
of what it sounds like.
Rob: you know, we're, we're
a friendly shark, you know,
Victoria: Yeah.
Rob: That's more of what it is.
It's also different.
Some venture capital worlds, like
if you go to software, it's, it's
as far different competing model
and far different deal flow and
different pace of development.
I can see in the software world or,
or you have to be first to market.
You have to be big.
You have to, you know, but in the
chemicals and energy world, you
don't have to be first, you know, uh,
you, but, but you have to be good.
Yeah.
And, and, and you cannot come
with, with half finished product.
So, um, there's now, there's some,
some good developments in the bio based
products industry where there are some
hybrids coming and that really helped
to introduce these, these things.
Yeah.
But, but if you, if you build
the plant, you cannot build
a plant that works almost.
Victoria: Right.
Yeah.
It either does or it doesn't.
Rob: And that makes our,
our business different.
So,
Victoria: Well,
Rob: yeah, the shark, the shark
model, we're, we're, we, I don't know.
I'm thinking.
We're a bit more of a cooperative fish.
Victoria: All right.
Rob: probably more like the dolphins now.
Victoria: There we go.
That works.
That works.
Well, Rob, this has been great.
Thank you.
Uh, thanks for making this happen
and having enjoyed diving into
the world of venture capital
and clean tech and startups and,
and getting more insight there.
So that's been great.
So thank you for joining us today.
Rob: All right.
Thanks, Victoria, for having me.
You build up a great show
over the years with this.
Really, I, I enjoy listening to, to
the different, uh, um, the different
chapters of it all the time.
Victoria: Yeah.
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
It has been a great journey
and I'm glad you've been there.
So thanks everyone for listening.
Keep listening, keep following,
keep sharing, and we will
talk with you again soon.
Well, thanks guys for listening.
I hope you were able to listen
to both part one and part
two of my interview with Rob.
So many great insights that he has shared
about the role of venture capital, the
role that they play in terms of risk
management, in terms of helping these
companies and these innovators scale
and grow and develop their business.
Lots of great insights there on
leadership and more hope you listen to it.
If send me some feedback
and we'll be back again with
another great episode next week.
Cheers.