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Welcome to Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada’s podcast series that explores the freshest ideas in agriculture and food. Each episode explores a single topic in depth—digging deep into new practices, innovative ideas, and their impacts on the industry. Learn about Canada’s agricultural sector from the people making the breakthroughs and knocking down the barriers! Farmers and foodies, scientists and leaders, and anyone with an eye on the future of the sector—this podcast is for you!
Kevin: The healthier soil is helping with that nutrient cycle and the carbon cycle where we're increasing our soil organic matter, which is putting carbon down in the Earth. It's a fertility benefit. It's a water holding benefit. It's just a win-win all the way around.
Kirk: That was Kevin Budd, a cattle producer from near Woodstock, New Brunswick. He’s talking about the rotational grazing system that he and his wife put in place on their farm.
Marie-France: Kevin is one of the over 7,500 farmers since 2022 who have put in place one or more practices to reduce greenhouse gases, sequester carbon, and to be more resilient to climate change. So, big shout out to Kevin and those 7,500 farmers!
Kirk: Big shout out. Absolutely.
Marie-France: They are the first wave of folks who obtained funding from the On Farm Climate Action Fund (or OFCAF) which we will talk about at the end of the show. These producers have put in place some new on-farm Beneficial Management Practices (or BMPs).
Kirk: What are those practices? How are they working? And what might these early adopters be onto? Today will are talking to three producers putting those innovations into practice on their own farms.
Marie-France: Welcome to the First Sixteen, a podcast about innovations in agriculture and agri-food. I am your co-host, Marie-France Gagnon.
Kirk: I’m your other co-host, Kirk Finken.
Marie-France: Kirk, we are focusing on three practices today. And you talked to three producers who have implemented them on their farms.
Kirk: I did, yes.
Marie-France: First is Rotational grazing. So that is the practice of containing and moving livestock through pasture. The pasture is split into cells or paddocks, with each paddock being grazed intensively for a brief time, followed by a rest period to allow recovery before grazing resumes. So it allows forage plants to recover, deepen their root systems and improves soil health.
Kirk: Yeah, I spoke to Kevin Budd in New Brunswick with his beef cattle operation. He and his wife are doing rotational grazing.
Marie France: Second is cover crops : Cover cropping is planting crops between main growing seasons to protect and improve the soil. These crops help prevent soil erosion, add nutrients, and control weeds.
Kirk: I spoke to Brett Francis in PEI who is doing cover crops. He’s got a mixed operation with seed potatoes, soybeans, corn, grains, a beef feedlot and cow calf operation.
Marie-France: And third, Nitrogen management, for example, optimizing nitrogen use by increasing legumes in rotations, and using manure and other fertilizer substitutes.
Kirk: So finally, I spoke to Raphael Beauchemin in Quebec with a combined dairy, cash crop and maple bush operation. He and his family are doing nitrogen management and cover crops in combination.
Marie-France: Our scientists, have been talking about these sorts of BMPs for years as techniques for reducing GHGs. There have been farms leading the way with these practices. But this is like the first major wave of first adopters.
Kirk: And what they have to share is really helpful for others considering these BMPs.
Marie-France: Let’s get into it!
Kirk: So, yeah, when I spoke to Kevin Budd in New Brunswick first, I was actually surprised. Rotational grazing is an old concept, going back over a hundred years. But it’s not widely used. You need fencing, lots of it – permanent and mobile -- which is cost prohibitive. So, it has never been a huge practice. I first asked him how many people were doing it in his region.
Kevin: Well, it's not the majority. I mean, there are people scattered around and doing it and making some effort, but it's not the majority.
Kirk: Why so few?
Kevin: Well, primarily, I think it's another management job. And management jobs take time. Many farmers don't have the luxury of having enough kind of staff to direct somebody else to do that.
Kevin: And then it takes a significant financial investment and resources to set your pastures up to do it effectively, you know, with, with fencing, temporary and permanent and water delivery, that kind of thing.
Kirk: So, how did you get funding? And how did you hear about OFCAF?
Kevin: Well, I. I'm a member of the New Brunswick Soil and Crop Improvement Association. So the local chapter here, where there's a pretty good group of farmers that are involved and they're actually the delivery agent in New Brunswick.
Kirk: And the program enabled you to do what?
Kevin: So we have a lot more acres kind of under pasture management. Um, so the program offered us the opportunity to, you know, develop that infrastructure, purchase more fencing, more temporary fencing, supplies, off-grid electric fencing to implement that on a much more substantial part of the grazing acres that we're involved with.
Kirk: Can you give us a quick profile of your operation?
Kevin: Okay, we're a family operation. Um, my wife and I are both veterinarians, and I was involved with the food animal practice here. And over the years it's expanded. We now have, you know, about a 300 head cow-calf operation. So 300 mother cows. Um, my eldest son has a has a broiler production operation. That kind of integrates well into our system because he's trying to produce some of his own grains. And the rotation is good for our forage production situation as well for, for these cows. We're in New Brunswick, and historically it's gone a 6 or 7 months of winter. So we need a lot of feed to allow for that. We're working on this whole regenerative thing to extend that grazing season and having some success with that as well.
We own about 2000 acres. If you're aware of kind of the geography of farmland in New Brunswick, most properties are probably at least half forest. And that would be approximately the case here. So about a thousand acres of productive land for forage production, grain production or pasture -- that we own. And we lease another 5 or 600 acres of fields primarily for pastures.
Kirk: You’re near Woodstock, right? It's a beautiful river valley with, well, potatoes growing everywhere. So, I guess you’re putting the meat into the meat-and-potatoes regenerative equation.
Kevin: Yeah, we're trying to do that. We're actually, uh, the last three years, I think maybe now working with McCains and their, uh, farm of the future kind of development to get that potato discipline of production into a more regenerative thing. And we're helping them with the livestock side.
Kirk: So let’s dig down on the rotational grazing. What are the benefits you’re seeing?
Kevin: So the benefits of the rotational grazing would be in just, uh, more resilience to our pastures and our forage production ground, the livestock effect, if you're properly grazing and allowing the allowing the grasses and the legumes to grow is to improve the soil health, improve water infiltration and water holding ability. Uh, so ultimately we're getting more production per acre, which translates into more animal units per acre.
We can keep that 300 cows on the number of acres that we're managing, where if we were managing differently, like with just set stocking, turning cattle out on large pastures, our capacity would probably be about half of what it is.
Kirk: Oh, wow. That's significant. You and your wife are veterinarians, too. Is there a benefit to the animal health?
Kevin: Well, I think so. If you're getting more production, they're getting a better diet of higher quality, fresher grasses and legumes in the vegetative kind of stage of growth. That's better than the either grazing stuff to the ground or grazing older stuff that's been stockpiled. There's a place for that in extending your season. But um, so and generally, you know, the rotational thing makes it healthier for parasite control, that kind of thing.
Kevin: It reduces those kind of burdens as well. And so yeah, there's quite a variation in the formula how you do that. I mean the really intensive grazing is with pretty high stocking density but very rapidly moving along like probably twice a day. We're not at that heaviest stocking density, but our cattle, we tend to move them once a day or every second day.
Kirk: Were you using rotational grazing before the OFCAF monies?
Kevin: So we had been doing some but just developing that infrastructure was the limiting factor. It takes a lot of fencing and a lot of materials, a lot of input costs. And it takes a fair bit of labor and management to make it happen every day. So the OFCAF kind of helped us with the infrastructure side of that, and with the reseeding and renovating some of that ground to improve the stands, that sort of thing.
Kirk: You're happy with the results?
Kevin: Oh certainly. It's made a significant difference. Um, and just in the carrying capacity and the ability, you know, if we can improve the grazing it also helps on the other side of, uh, being able to have a few more acres that are harvestable for winter feed. Um, so it's helped us have enough inventory, uh, just because there's less pressure on, on that side of the operation. Um, so there are a lot of advantages.
Kirk: For those who have not adopted this practice yet, what do you say to them?
Kevin: Well, everybody has to look at the impact in their own business. And for us, I mean, it's difficult to increase the size of your operation. And that's a big investment as well. There's obviously a cost in getting that infrastructure and having the people to manage it. But if you're if you get it set up right, it's not a big labor demanding situation. It's just an everyday situation. So I would encourage people to look at it. And if you're in the beef production and you can increase your production on the same land base, um, I think that's a win-win for everybody. If you can do that and protect the environment at the same time.
Marie-France: This is so great to hear about.
Kirk: Totally.
Marie-France: So, take me to PEI to meet Brett Francis.
Kirk: Your bags are packed?
Marie-France: They are.
Brett Francis: My name is Brett Francis. I farm in Lady Fane, Prince Edward Island. And I farm here with my father and my mother, Dave and Vicky, and my wife Keisha and our four children.
Kirk: Hey Brett. Thanks for taking the time. Can you tell us about your farm?
Brett Francis: Yeah. I'm the seventh generation on our farm. Uh, we're a mixed farm. We grow seed potatoes, soybeans, corn, uh, grains. And we have a beef feedlot and a cow calf operation.
Kirk: I understand you’ve been doing cover cropping for a while. But you’ve recently introduced something new in that practice.
Brett Francis: Yeah, well, my father's always been a huge promoter of cover cropping and sustainable agriculture. And, uh, before it was mainstream, my father's practice in the fall after harvest of our potatoes. And recently, with the help from the Federation, we started putting a cover crop in on our fall tillage. And, that's something new that we haven't done before.
Kirk: What are the main benefits to your farm? What’s the payoff?
Brett Francis: It's not always a paid today practice. It's a more of an investment for the future years and the future generations.
We have less erosion. And then the winter cuts down and wind erosion and same as the spring. Um, it cuts down a lot of water erosion.
Kirk: So, what are the cover crops you're planting?
Brett Francis: We're just using barley right now, and, uh, before we harvest our potatoes, we will go through with a broadcaster and put about 90 pounds per acre on of barley. And as we harvest the potatoes, that's what incorporates the seed into the ground. So that acts as their tillage. And, uh, in a few, in a week or so after we harvest the potatoes, there's usually a real nice green mass over all that ground. It keeps it covered through the winter, in the spring.
Kirk: And for this new practice, the fall tillage?
Brett Francis: And then our fall tillage is the same idea. We go through with the broadcaster and broadcast about 90 pounds an acre of barley. And then we go through with the machine called the Pottinger Synkro. And it's a reduced, reduced tillage practice. And that works the ground up, works the barley into it. And same thing about a week later. There's a nice green cover on that ground.
Kirk: Why barley?
Brett Francis: We grow it on the farm. It's just ease of access. And it's fairly hardy. It germinates quite quick and, uh, in some winters too -- and we don't have a lot of cold weather too -- it'll over-winter. You'll get a real nice cover in the spring from it also.
Kirk: Let’s talk results. I understand you can see it pretty easily.
Brett Francis: In the winter months when we have wind erosion here in the island, you can see it in the snow. The snow will turn red the odd time if we have a real big wind and and not much cover and, uh, no snow and the ground is frozen, the big wind will blow. blow some soil around. But, uh, the farms that are covered that are cover crop, definitely, uh, the snow is a lot whiter around them farms and, uh, same as with erosion in the in the spring and the fall. It's, it definitely pays off. You can see the difference.
Kirk: What do you think would make a farmer reluctant to adopt cover cropping?
Brett Francis: Every farm is different.
Timing is a big thing, also, if you're harvesting a late season crop, you don't have time to put in the cover crop. It just if you're if you're harvesting after October 15th, it's it gets too cold here. And we have frost in the late fall and nothing will grow. So if you were growing a later season variety potato or maybe a different crop that you're taking off later, it's really difficult to get a cover crop in there that will grow. And if you do go through all the work of putting a cover crop in and nothing grows right there, you're out, you're out quite a bit of time and money and, uh, and your time is expensive. So, if I was going to promote it, I would say it's not a “get paid today” event. It's building the soils and keeping them there for your future and the next generation's future. And it it definitely pays off. It's the right thing to do.
[Transition music]
Marie-France: What a great perspective. In French we say, Terre a Terre.
Kirk: Down to earth. Yeah. Literally.
Marie-France: But can you just clarify one thing? He mentioned the Federation? What was he referring to?
Kirk: That’s the PEI Federation of Agriculture. It’s the organization in PEI that manages the funding for OFCAF, the On Farm Climate Action Fund. It’s where Brett got his funding to take the cover cropping practice to that next level.
Marie-France: Right, right, right! We’ll talk about that at the end.
And so, where are we going next?
Kirk: We met with Raphael Beauchemin in Saint-Ours, Quebec, an hour east of Montreal. It’s a pretty big operation. First and foremost, it’s a dairy farm. They have beef cattle and a big maple bush, too. Plus, they grow a variety of crops – wheat for human consumption, soy (which they export to Asia), peas for the frozen foods section of your grocery store, corn for livestock feed and they are looking to add other vegetable crops.
Marie-France: Sounds like a complex operation.
Kirk: It strikes me as a farm family that is innovative and smart in they way they approach the crop rotations and interplay of their crops and livestock. They take calculated risks to make it work together.
In Quebec, OFCAF fund is called Agri-solution and it is managed by the Union de producteurs agricoles (L’UPA). It funded the Beauchemin family with the trials and testing of their nitrogen management and cover cropping activities – things they were already doing, but needed to see how they could apply it all to greater benefit.
Raphael: The J.N. Beauchemin farm is a third-generation farm, and I’m the oldest member of the third generation. It’s a multidisciplinary farm that’s mainly into dairy production, but also has field crops. I look after a bit of both, among other things.
Kirk: So, Raphaël, can we talk about your beneficial management practices and your participation in the nitrogen sentinel project?
Raphael: Since dairy production has evolved quite a bit in the last 15 years, we’ve had a lot more manure to manage in our nutrients. And it’s always been a bit nerve-wracking for us to cut back on nitrogen, as we’re always afraid that the plants won’t reach 100% of their potential. But the nitrogen sentinel gives us some assurance as to where we should cut, and gives us some idea of our ranges, what the manure could give us back for our crops, so we don’t have any losses but still save on nitrogen, on inputs.
Kirk: Can you explain your best management practices for nitrogen management?
Raphael: Yeah, for the last few years, basically, on the farm, what we’ve been doing is we’ve been spreading manure either in the fall or in the spring, and then in our rotation, we try to look at manures in a certain order of magnitude that equals -– not 100% of theoretical nutrients, but equals – well, we try to get as close as possible to the biggest number. But for that, we validate our numbers by doing nitrate tests in the soil after applying our starter. Then we adjust our fertilizer quantities according to the mapping of the manure applied in the spring.
Kirk: That seems to be a complete system. And if I understand correctly, the funding you’ve received is helping you to test and analyze your nitrogen and soil management system.
Raphael: We look at the elements that were spread across the field based on the geomatics and where there there were none and where there was more. We try to adapt our quantities to match our post-emergence quantities to match the plant’s needs, but with a certain latitude with the start of the season, to see what the start of the season looks like. If it’s been a cold spring, or a warm spring with lots of rain, or less, we try to adapt to be able to operate with the least added inputs possible, to meet 100% of the corn’s needs.
Kirk: And what kind of results did you get? What do the tests show?
Raphael: Well, I think we’ve been working on a calculation grid for nearly five years now, to evaluate each and every nitrogen fraction we use. Since then, we’ve reduced the amount of nitrogen used on the farm by a good two truckloads. Basically, we’re trying to reduce the amount of nitrogen used as an input as much as possible without having a negative impact on yield.
Considering that we have a lot of nitrogen that comes from liquid manure, we want to maximize that and minimize the nitrogen we buy, with the best performance possible, and to do that, you really have to keep up with manure applications, the weather, and recalculate several times at the start of the season.
For example, since we’ve been managing nitrogen a little more closely, we’ve reduced the inputs we have to buy from the farm by 40%, which is the equivalent of two truckloads, which is worth a lot of money.
When we know that manure produces a certain amount of the total nitrogen that has to be managed, it tends to be more and more organic. We just need to be able to adapt to this fertilizer value, which is a little more variable over the course of the season, and a little harder to control when it’ll be released during the season.
That’s why we’re also trying to work with cover crops so we can roll nitrogen over from one season to the next, and then we’re always trying to get a good nitrogen value all season long.
Kirk: Ok. So we’re talking about a combination of practices.
Raphael: We think it comes down to cover crops and then keeping the soil healthy. We’ve also started strip-tilling, reduced tillage of fields in the fall, then strip-tilling in the spring to reduce the impact of soil destructuring and soil erosion in the areas where we’re not planting a crop. For us, direct seeding has always been hard because we have springs with soils that are a bit cold. They need to be warmed up to ensure good germination and good even emergence.
Kirk: You mentioned working in swaths or strips.
Raphael: So far, strip-tilling seems to be giving us good results, so we get emergence in warmed soil, while still keeping good soil structure in our rows. Then we add cover crops, either intercropped or in the open field, depending on the crop, so we can conserve the nitrogen and nutrients we manage via manure, and to be able to roll over to the next crop as much as possible.
Kirk: Do you have any control zones? Places where you don’t apply any inputs?
Raphael: We do tests with no nitrogen at all. And for some years, we have no yield loss and no added mineral fertilizer. We try to find the best, which often isn’t zero, but rarely is in fact...... In fact, our sentinel test has shown us in recent years that our theoretical figure for nitrogen to be added in post was often a little too high. Zero may work for a year now and then, but it’s not usually the one that gives us the best economic margin. The best reference is often a little below what we used to aim for, because we’re managing more and more manure.
Kirk: So, overall, what have been the results?
Raphael: So, there’s no doubt that for our cover crop, the results are that it helps with the equipment, with the harvest. Whether it’s silage corn or grain corn, the harvest happens all the time with a better bearing capacity, and it dirties the machinery less, and that really helps us get into the fields without damage; or the yield increases the following year without having a negative impact on the current year.
That’s really the second finding – that at the start, we were scared we were going to lose throughout the current year to benefit the next year, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Otherwise, our weed management, which is still a challenge, seems to be going well despite the more limited tools we can use when we use a variety of cover crops. But it seems to work.
Otherwise, the last thing I would say is that nitrogen seems to be part of the equation all the time, whatever the season. It seems that if you have green crops between fall and spring, you have to manage them, but we have some that overwinter. Then the following year, when we do nitrate tests, we always have a lot of residual nitrogen in the soil. That leads us to believe that juggling with these tools helps to reduce our intensive field work, play with intercrops or cover crops and then, at the end of the day, be able to manage our nitrogen to save money and have better margins.
Kirk: So it was worth it to confirm with the tests and the nitrogen sentinel?
Raphael: Well, the general advice I would give is it’s worth a try.
Every dairy farm like us, theoretically, we already have a lot of nitrogen and minerals from the liquid manure or organic fertilizers. If we calculate this value, which is substantial, that’s in the manure but we don't take advantage of it, well that's a big economic loss, I think, for the farm.
In our case, it’s the little push we needed to move slowly but surely towards an increasingly organic agriculture, in our case, with less and less minerals. Trusting our soils, and trusting the nitrogen that somehow rolls into our crop rotation and that we need to be able to take the lead on a little.
But as I like to say to the producers around me, it’s clear that reliable data is what’s going to help us with our decisions.
Marie-France :Smart! It’s getting the empirical evidence to help define the road forward. Very useful.
Kirk:Super smart.
Marie-France : So, we referenced the On Farm Climate Action Fund (or OFCAF) in this episode. And It is with this financial support that our three interviewees were able to take action on their farms. The federal government funded 13 initial recipients who manage the funding to ensure it has a regional impact.
Kirk: And, it is important for folks to know that the funding has been expanded through to 2028 and with this expansion, the focus remains the same for the fund, right
Marie-France : Yes. It’s so farmers can adopt beneficial management practices (BMPs) that store carbon and reduce greenhouse gases. It’s specifically for nitrogen management, cover cropping and rotational grazing practices. All the same as before.
Kirk: We can see from the stories we just heard that there are other environmental benefits such as improved biodiversity and soil health that come with it.
Marie-France : And financial benefits to the producers. If not immediate, certainly for the long term. All I heard there was win-win, n’est ce pas?
Kirk: So, if you want to be part of the solution, you want to apply to the funding, check it out. Just below the description of this episode, you’ll find the link to the main web page for the fund. From there you can find which organization manages it for your region.
Marie-France : And so, there you have it: You can get funding to do what?
Kirk: To try something new.
Marie-France: Some new BMPs.
Kirk: Make it happen.