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The Idol Horse team tackles the biggest events on the world horse racing calendar. Expect to hear interviews from the biggest names in the sport and insight, breaking news and forthright opinion from the Idol Horse team.
David Hayes, son of Hall of Fame trainer Colin Hayes quickly established himself as a leading trainer in his old right when taking out his license nearly 35 years ago training numerous Australian stars and stepping out of his legendary father's shadow with eight Melbourne champion trainers titles and nine from South Australia plus he was twice Hong Kong champion in his first stint in the region in 97, 98 and 98, 99 which included a Hong Kong Derby win with the mighty mayor elegant fashion.
Now in his second term training from his Sha Tin base, Hayes is responsible for one the hottest sprinting stars on the planet right now in Ka Ying Rising. We talk about the pressure in the build up to HKIR and how it compares to his previous champions and also his take on Japanese racing given he's still the only Australian trainer to date to win the Japan Cup. Enjoy.
David, welcome to the Idol Horse podcast. Always appreciate your time, but imagine it's in high demand at the moment as we build up to HKIR and you with one of the stars of show, of course, your phone's running red hot, I'd imagine. Yes, it's a good problem to have. Got a horse that rates as well as Ka Ying Rising. It's a pleasure to get up in the mornings. Just in general, before we get onto Ka Ying Rising himself, the season so far, happy with the way things are progressing and building on last year's good title?
Yeah, look, I've been in the top three for most of the season. The last month's been a bit frustrating. I had five seconds on one meeting and then I had a couple of really good chances drawn well at the valley, which is critical. And then Monsoon hit or the Typhoon and they went the next week and it was a bog track and wide gates. So I think December will, their stable will gradually roll in the winners a bit more, a bit more consistently and I'll stay at the top, hopefully.
Ka Ying Rising is obviously the flag bearer. He was brilliant in the lead-up race. Just going back to the start though, the story, I've seen since he won the Jockey Club sprint the other day, I've seen lots of his origins story coming out, people posting videos of him winning jump outs in New Zealand and all those sort of things. But was he always heading to Hong Kong? Because he was with your boys in Australia, Will Banner, JD. Was it always the plan or how did it all come about? Yeah, I said he could connect with Lindsay Boughton Horse.
and with the view to test it in Australia and if it looked likely to sell to Hong Kong. And the boys gave him, you know, they had him for probably a couple of months and gave him a couple of trials and he looked very, very good. And we were lucky enough to be able to sell him to Mr. Lung Syndicate, the K-Ying Syndicate, and rest is history. He was probably a millimeter off being undefeated. He got beaten the head twice by the same horse.
He was very immature in those days and now he's a different horse and he hasn't been beaten since. Been doing some incredible things. The first time he came on the radar for me, when I said, well, you are good, it was a three year old carrying 135 barrier 14 on a wet track in class three, giving a lot of good old horses weight and he really gave them a decent old beating. And I thought, well, to do that, you have to be very, very good. mentioned those two defeats though, too.
Wunderbar and one of the actually one of them was a nose it was barely a whisker in it. there any was it just a maturity thing did you think then did you start to maybe question yourself as? Yeah no I think two things they beat the the rest by a good margin and a real ding-dong goes for the last 200 meters. I think one Wunderbar is a very good horse and two he was a little bit more mature it was like
you know, sometimes those mature two and three year olds, spring two and three year olds. And then he still held his form and is still very good, but he hasn't gone on to the heights of Kay Ying rising. But I don't think the Ka Ying Rising that's racing now is the same Kay Ying rising that started his career in Hong Kong. And that does to a certain extent, obviously there's a bit of Ringcraft involved, he learns the game, but a lot of it just comes down to maturity, do you think?
I think maturity and Wunderbar had a minor surgery but he's come back well from it and look he's one of the top sprinters in Hong Kong. just think Ka Ying Rising is a little bit special. And that win in the Jockey Club sprint was more than a bit special as well. mean that was just out of this world to be where he is at this stage of his career. What a radio, 128 now? 128 off his 10th start. I don't think many have done that.
And he probably got without being eased down his last three runs and nearly broken the course record every time and then broke it and probably was eased down the most he's ever been eased down. think Zach was kissing, sending messages to the camera inside the track. Without getting too far ahead of ourselves. mean, Hong Kong's had some great sprinters over the years and let's say he's lowered the track record. How far can he go, do you think?
He'll keep going. Look, it's hard to say he's going to improve off last week, but I'd expect him to hold his form because he has, for the last seven runs, just gradually got better each run. I'm not sure where his ceiling is, but he doesn't really have to improve much off last week, does he? So he's a very exciting horse. And you've obviously had lots of exciting horses, lots of champions over the years, both in Hong Kong there and Australia as well.
Are you someone that feels the pressure or with a horse like him, say, is there no pressure at all just because he does it all himself in that regard? How do you deal with it all? Well, just treat him like another horse and keep him in a routine that works with him. Of course, you know, I'll be pleased when the international race is over and he's ticked off that group one because he's done everything a horse could possibly do except win a group one. He's probably the highest rated horse I've ever had that hasn't competed or ran in a group one.
beaten group one winners, given group one winners weight, but officially he's not a group one winner. So once he's done that, I'll be a little more relaxed. And as far as what happens next after the Hong Kong sprint, let's just assume everything goes to plan, what do you think for the rest of the season for him? Is it a four year old which opens up a certain series of races for him? No.
He won't go for the Derby because we've got the Everest in mind and he is so fast I don't know if he would stretch out that far but we're certainly going to run in the classic mile because he's going to be probably 45 pounds in the handicap meaning he's a 130 rater and probably the next top weight at set weights will be 82 maybe, maybe 90 but he's going to be a lot so we just thought just test him at the mile against his own age, wait for age, where he's beautifully in. Then we'll back off and set him basically for the Everest via the International Racing in March in Hong Kong. And again, just playing what if sort of situations. If he won a hard held, you won the mile hard held by four, you wouldn't think, and Zach came in and said, this horse can do anything. You wouldn't be tempted to keep going?
Look, I certainly would be, you never say never, but I would expect him to win the mile because I wouldn't run him in it unless he was right. And if he was right, he'll run. If he's not coping, I'll just back off. But I think he'll be a dollar ten if he does run. And he should win, you know, if he does win like a dollar ten pop, there's a temptation that I'll be advising not to take.
And it is, you talk about the ratings of being so far clear. had a quick look at some of the, Rapper Dragon was 114 when he won the Derby, Golden Sixty was 112. And they were both well in. You say he's just so far ahead of his age group at the moment. It's extraordinary. At least a class and a half, maybe even two classes. That's why I can't resist the mile. I can't resist the mile.
Derby's a bit different because it's two turns and you've got that lovely back straight to get in the rhythm. know why he's a superstar is that he can begin fast, then relax, he doesn't get too hard on the bit. So I can see him relaxing beautifully, whether it be in front or just behind the pace in the classic mile. But two bends is a bit different. I know Voids Bubble did it a few years ago, but he was a very, very good horse but he didn't have an Everest in the back of his mind. California Spangle as well, he got very close too. Yes, yeah. Speaking of Derby's Elegant Fashion, was that, 2003 Elegant Fashion winning the Derby for you? Have you got a Derby horse for this year? It's horses that need to step up. At the moment, nothing obvious I would say.
especially nothing obvious with this good horse not running in it. Yeah I did notice you've got that nice looking horse from South Africa Mondial. Rubylot is a very nice progressive horse not bred to run the distance but he looks like he's looking for a mile he'll be running on International Day, very smart horse. Steller Swift is a progressive horse who's improving a lot changes between now and the Derby we've got lots of time I'm hoping something will step up.
Mondial the South African horse, how's he looking? Yes, he like he's arrived a little bit late, but he's trialing on Monday and He's been placed in that South African Derby if the South African forms good. He might measure up. That's what we're hoping Looking overseas for a second David talked about mentioned elegant fashion they're winning back In the early 2000s where you go further back better loosen up winning the Japan Cup back in that 19
90. Was it as long ago as that? Yeah they had colour TV then and everything. What do you remember of that weekend? It was very special. At the time it was the richest race in the world. The Cox Plate was worth a million and that was worth five. And we took the challenge up, he was the best horse in Australia. And after the Japan Cup he was rated the best horse in the world because he was running against Arc winners, King George winners, Queen Elizabeth winners. And I didn't quite realize at that tender young age how daunting the task was and how good those horses were compared to Australian Wait for Age. But Better Loosen Up was a world-class horse, often forgotten in the all-time greats because he came back, the Australian Cup in a cakewalk after it, and boated a tendon. So at the peak of his career, may not have even peaked.
He won eight group ones in that 12 months. But I think to be remembered as an all-time great, you've got to last two or three seasons. And he had one golden season. We're just coming off the back of the recent Japan Cup. And there was three pretty decent, well, more than decent, very good European horses try their luck again once more in the Japan Cup without ultimate success. And it hasn't been. It's been a long time now since anything other than the Japan horses won the Cup itself. I know the obvious answer is they've got better, but
Why don't you think that international trainers are targeting a race like that anymore? It does have such a standing on the world stage. I can't speak for the Europeans, but for the Aussies, stake money. You can stay in Australia racing inferior standard races for similar money. You know, in the last three years, the stake money boom in the New South Wales-Victorian battle. There's just so much money on offer.
and the Australian attitude is with the quarantine, you have to give up so much just to go for one race. If the Japan Cup was in April, I would say it would be an easier option. Using Brightside, for an example, the boys are bringing Brightside, but they're going to bring him in April because after April, there's no real races and he'll have a spell. If he comes up in December, he's giving away probably $4 million plus races.
some of them two, some of them five. So you'll have two or three runs in the autumn and then be targeted for the race up here in April. So I think these days with Australian state money the way it is, that's the obvious answer I think is the depth and choice of big races in Australia. Yeah and of course go for a circle. Well the English are coming down now for the money. Yeah exactly. William Haggis has cracked the code hasn't he?
Yes, he's worked it out and maybe they should confiscate his passport.
Going back full circle then just to wrap up then David, it's Ka Ying Rising, obviously chasing a big pot then in the Everest, all things being equal next year, would you think about more overseas targets for him or would it just be back to Hong Kong after that or you know the following year maybe? He would come straight, you know he'll either be targeted for the Hong Kong mile or the Hong Kong sprint. I dare say it'd be the sprint because if he's sprinting like he is at the moment, why change?
It will be nice to see him in the Classic Mile, how he handles that. It'll just probably confuse me what to do with him in the future, but I think the sprint way is the way we'll be going forward. Yeah, well, as you said before, they're nice problems to have. Good problem. All right, David, really appreciate it. So, best of luck as we head towards HKIR and beyond again. Whatever happens after the Classic Cup, you'll have to come back and catch up with us later in the season, hopefully.
Let's hope so. Cheers.