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Darren Byrd, a dedicated airline pilot with nearly two decades of experience, recounts his inspirational journey into the aviation industry, highlighting the pivotal moments that shaped his career. Starting with a childhood fascination for flight simulators, Darren's desire to become a pilot was initially stifled by self-doubt regarding his math skills and eyesight. It wasn't until his wife pushed him to pursue his dream that he embarked on the rigorous training required to become a commercial pilot. The discussion covers the intricacies of his flight training experience, emphasizing the need for commitment and the sacrifices made along the way. Darren's candid reflections on the financial challenges of flight school and the emotional hurdles faced during training resonate with aspiring aviators, showcasing the importance of determination and support systems in achieving one’s goals.
The episode takes a deeper dive into the realities of working as a junior pilot during the economic downturn in the late 2000s, shedding light on the uncertainties and challenges that come with the profession. Darren shares his experiences of being furloughed and the emotional struggle of remaining hopeful in a tumultuous industry. He underscores the value of networking and proactive career management for pilots, advising that building relationships within the aviation community can significantly enhance opportunities for advancement. This narrative not only serves as a guide for new pilots but also offers a sobering reminder of the unpredictable nature of the aviation industry, encouraging listeners to be prepared for both the ups and downs of a flying career.
Darren's journey doesn't stop at flying; he also delves into the world of social media and its impact on aviation. He discusses the responsibility that comes with being an aviation influencer, emphasizing the need for professionalism and caution in how pilots represent themselves online. Through his engaging storytelling, Darren highlights the importance of transparency in sharing the realities of being a pilot, aiming to educate and inspire the next generation of aviators. His mission to demystify the aviation profession while providing authentic insights serves as a compelling call to action for those considering a career in flying, making this episode both informative and motivational.
Pilot to Pilot is the podcast for anyone who flies — or dreams about it. Host Justin Siems sits down with airline captains, bush pilots, CFIs, and everyone in between for honest conversations about the path to the cockpit, the grind of the career, and the love of flying that keeps us coming back. Whether you're a student pilot chasing your first solo or a captain with 20,000 hours, there's a seat for you here. New episodes weekly.
My name is Darren Bird.
I am a pilot for a major
airline currently on 777.
I've been flying as an airline
pilot for 17 years, and I've been
doing social media for quite a
bit to help the next generation come
into the field.
Darren, what's going on, man?
Welcome to the Pilot, the
Pilot podcast.
Morning.
How you doing today?
Pretty good.
Sitting.
I short call reserve here in a
couple hours, but it's an easy gig.
Yeah, well, short call is
great when you live in base.
For me, I'm relatively junior
and commuting to and from New York,
and I had Long Call for two
months and now I'm looking at Short
Call for December.
It's just, man, it's like,
dang it.
Especially for New York,
covering three airports.
Yeah, yeah, covering three airports.
Hotels are just stupid
expensive to start out with.
So.
Yeah, it is what it is though, right?
You know, eventually we'll
have some seniority.
You'll be able to fly
somewhere else other than London
consistently, and I'll get
back to Charlotte or I'll get to
Charlotte, so it'll all be good.
Gotcha.
Well, cool, man.
Well, the first thing I always
ask everyone, and this is kind of
an interesting question for
you because you have changed careers
from what I've gathered, but
the first thing I ask everyone is,
why aviation?
What was it about aviation?
Was it early in life for you
or was it something that truly happened
later in life?
So it was really early in life
for me.
It was back in, like, seventh grade.
This is in the 80s.
I'm old.
And we had one computer in our
woodshop class and I had flight sim
on there, and I was amazed by
just not only the computer, but the
whole flying aspect.
So that got me into computers
in the early mid-80s, and I've been
flying on the computer ever since.
And I never thought I could be
an airline pilot because I was always
told as a kid you had to be
good in math and good math and have
good eyesight to be an airline pilot.
Well, I was horrible in math
and I have bad eyes, so I never even
pursued it until later on in
life when I've already entered a
whole different career.
But I've always wanted to be a
pilot, but I didn't know how to be
a pilot.
So what was it from there that
kind of led to it, or was it just
truly like, that's not for me.
I can just play it on video
games and I'm going to pursue a different
career.
So I was in it for a long Time
and I would come home from work and
I would sit at my desk and fly
on the computer every single day.
And my wife was like, hey, you
come home from work mad and you fly
the computer and you're happy.
So we need to fix something.
You need to go be a pilot or
find a new career because this isn't
working for us.
And so thankfully she has a
great job and she was able to kind
of bankroll and help me go
through the whole pilot training
thing.
But my wife pushed me to get
into this career because she realized
me being in it.
Although it was a white collar
job and 8 to 5 Monday through Friday,
I wasn't happy doing what I
was doing then.
What did that look like?
What did it look like as a family?
As looking at how many, well,
how expensive it's going to be, what
flight schools to use.
What was that like in the
transition from leaving your job?
Did you just flat out quit and
go to training or was it kind of
I'm going to work and train
and get my ratings that way?
So back then, and this is a,
this is spring 2006, it was cheaper
to get trained back then.
I live in the Dallas area and
there's tons of flight schools around
here and I was working a 40
hour a week job and so I tried to
find a flight school that
could be compatible with keeping
a job because I have bills to pay.
So I would work 7 to 4 Monday
through Friday and then I would drive
down, I live in Arlington,
drive down to the Arlington airport
and I would train 4:30 to
whatever I was done two days a week
and then all day on Saturdays.
The flight school was, I went
to ATP back then they had a self
paced program where you could
go when you wanted to.
And it sounds good except they
had a high, high failure rate because
people as you know would start
off real strong and then say I'm
taking a week off, I'm going
to come once this week and then I'll
come later on next week.
And they wouldn't.
Right.
And they fall behind.
But I was like, no, no, this
is $60,000.
I'm going to go every week.
I went again twice a week minimum.
And then all day on Saturdays.
If I went On Tuesday at 4:30
it was storming.
I would still go, I would
study and I go the next day.
So I would keep making up my days.
I would go sometimes five days
in a row to make sure I got all my
training in.
So for me it worked great.
They've since got rid of the
program, unfortunately.
Probably because too many
people failed.
I'm guessing they didn't.
Like, a lot of people had
remedial training and they got mad
that it cost more money.
But it's like you need the
training because you didn't come
often enough.
So.
Right.
It's called a self study program.
You just forgot the self study.
Yeah.
Because no one's calling you
to come up to the airport.
So if you don't motivate
yourself and it's not gonna work
out for you very well.
Yeah.
And they don't mind.
They're like, hey, we'll take
your money.
Hey, you gotta pay more.
Okay, cool.
Bring it on.
And, you know, a lot, a lot
of, you know, on that whole flight
school note, people also ask
me, what flight school do I recommend?
And I don't ever recommend any
certain flight school because we
all learn differently.
And it's.
It's hard to understand.
It's hard.
I get.
When you're sitting at home
looking at these websites and like,
how do you find a fight school?
They have all these fancy ads.
And I tell people you need to
actually drive to that location,
Talk to the CFIs, talk to the
students, look around it and see
if could you learn there.
Because in my opinion, how
fast you get trained is small, minuscule
to if you get trained and
learn anything.
Well, I mean, a lot of people
are just so like.
I mean, I was even.
I can fall into this category.
Right.
You're just so focused on
getting to the airlines.
You're so focused on getting
to the regional that you will do.
You will want to do it as fast
as possible.
But what you don't understand
is you're setting yourself for failure
and right then and there,
because, I mean, for me, I took my
instrument checkride too soon.
I wasn't ready for it.
I just needed to do it, or my
instructor told me I needed to do
it and I failed it.
Thankfully, it didn't hold me
back from getting jobs.
And usually failing a
checkride doesn't.
But that was purely on me for
taking it too soon and trying to
rush myself through training.
Because I was like, all right,
I got to do this.
I got to do this.
I got to do this.
I got to get 1500 hours.
I got to get a thousand hours.
But if you can just slow down
and kind of enjoy your training and
really understand.
I always tell people this.
When you make it to the
airlines, the chance of you actually
flying the plane that you're
flying now is probably.
Is almost zero.
Like you, you Fly with people.
We don't usually go fly ga
ever again.
So enjoy it while you can.
And, and that, and you know
when you're going to 1,500 hours,
most of that, most of that
time is spent time building, not
training.
Right?
So if you take, I took a year
to get all my ratings in, right?
A year.
This is a lot.
I mean compared to the fast
track programs.
But if you could get all your
ratings in a year and then haul butt
through time building, you can
beat the person that did the fast
track program and then you
know, doing their time building maybe
a little slower.
So in my opinion, the time
building portion is the bigger portion.
The Russian versus the getting
your basic, especially your private
and your instrument, the
foundations of all your whole career.
You take your time, understand
what you're doing and not just have
rote knowledge, you know, up,
down, left, right, no, yeah.
I mean, and that's a hard
thing to do, right?
I mean especially when people
are pushing Shepherd Air, it's like,
hey, after your private juice,
Shepherd Air for everything.
And there is something to it
though too.
It's like you just got to pass
the test.
But it's also important for
you to have the fundamental knowledge
because if it doesn't get you
in the checkride, if it doesn't get
you in your training, there's
going to be a day where you're flying
and they ask you to do
something and the weather's bad,
you got a malfunction and
something happens and you're going
to really wish you had the
fundamental knowledge of why something's
happening or what you need to
do so you can focus on flying the
airplane and you could be in
the actual moment.
Correct?
Yeah, totally agree.
So why did you choose ATP?
Was it just, was there a bunch
of choice?
I mean you live like you said,
you lived in Arlington, you live
in Dallas.
I mean there is probably every
flight school in the world that one
can imagine in the Dallas area.
So what was it about ATP that
stood out to you?
There's a ton even at
Arlington Airport back then it was
an untowered field.
It was the third busiest
airport in the metroplex.
It was DFW Love Field and then
Arlington, there was like five flight
schools at the airport.
Really busy, had lots of
choices to pick from.
But for me they had a big
fleet, they owned their fleet.
It wasn't like an owner lease
back thing where sometimes you might
be training on an airplane and
then the owner says I'm going to
sell my airplane and then you
have to Learn on a whole new model.
Right.
They have a standardized fleet
of airplane.
They had on site mechanics and
they were, they're very well known.
I mean, they get a lot of
flack, but they've been around for
a long time because they know
what they're doing.
Right now I endorse certain
flight school, but when I did all
my research, they had the best
program for me, especially that I
could keep my job and they
could work around my schedule.
That was big for me versus
having a very rigid schedule that
didn't work for me or quit my
job kind of thing.
That was an option for me.
Yeah.
Was there any moment where you
were in your training and you're
like, I think I'm making a mistake.
Like, this is like, I'm going
to quit this good job.
I have.
I went to school for this my
whole life.
Like, this is crazy.
Multiple times.
Because again, I've been
flying since, on the computer since
I was in sixth or seventh grade.
Right.
And here I am going to find
the real thing and opening these
books and all the terms and
new concepts that I didn't know.
I didn't know.
And now I have to learn these things.
And that's like, you know, I
thought, man, this is a huge hill
to climb.
I'm not going to be able to do this.
I didn't think I was going to
be able to do it.
Every.
Every rating.
Yeah.
Especially when I got to the
end and my boss at the time, she
knew I was going to quit
because I was reading my books during
my lunch break and she told
me, how long do I have?
I said, probably till March.
This give me notice.
I gave her notice.
But even then I was like, I
was nervous.
Quitting a guaranteed path.
I could still be the same company.
They're still down the street
from where I live.
I could be there today versus leaving.
And at the time, ATP paid
their instructors $1,000 a month
plus $100 per checkride pass
if they pass the first time your
students.
Right.
So I was taking a giant pay
cut to go be a CFI to maybe get an
airline job.
Maybe.
It was a huge stressor.
Huge stressor.
But again, I'm glad I did it.
For me, it worked out fairly well.
And you said, so this is all
happening in 2006.
Not necessarily the best time
for training.
Right.
There might have been a little bit.
I don't, I can't.
I'm trying to put together the
timeline, But I know 2008 happens.
Financials, everyone just does.
Bad airlines is going out and
you people are getting furloughed
and here you are probably at
this time with a new commercial ticket
and you are ready to enter the
aviating world and no one's hiring.
So it was a double edged sword
back then because in 2006, 2007 was
a magical time where if you
had a commercial multi instrument
rating, a regional would hire you.
And so when I got hired by my
first airline In October of 07, I
had a total of 540 hours total
time for 420 multi because I only
taught in a Seminole.
But here I am a new new first
officer at a regional in October
07.
In May of 08 my regional was
furloughing because again the economic
downturn and I spent over a
year as the most junior pilot in
my status sitting airport
ready reserve for eight hour shifts.
Almost one month.
I flew five hours.
Oh wow.
I thought, I thought I was
going to be furloughed right away
again.
I thought I made a horrible
decision because I'm making half
of what I made at my old.
It giggled as an airline pilot.
So here I was, I spent all
this money on this loan, got the
airlines, they're furloughing,
I'm making no money and I'm not flying
and no one's hiring.
I was.
Yeah.
A lot of my friends couldn't
handle it and they actually went
and left.
Left the industry.
Did they?
Yeah, I started my training in
2010 and not everyone has been hired
back yet.
Like it was still a really bad
time or what looked like a bad time
to start training.
Like everyone.
Oh yeah.
People were just down on it.
Like what are you doing?
Pick anything else.
Like it's never going to get better.
This is just what it is.
And sure enough, it has gotten better.
Right.
Like, I mean obviously Covid
happened and it got worse again,
but it's just how aviation is
and it's something you really need
to hold on to.
Yeah.
That it's going to happen again.
I mean we are in a little bit
of a hiring slowdown right now and
I have some regional friends
that are kind of freaking out and
they're like, oh, they just
stopped hiring.
I'm like, I mean I feel like
they didn't necessarily stop.
They're more just going back
to what they have hired, if that
makes sense.
Yeah.
So it's more of what the
industry norm was ten years ago or
five years ago.
Uh, now will it get back to
what it was?
I don't know.
It might be a little bit more
competitive than what it was in the
last two years.
But there's still.
You're still on a really good
opportunity to make it to a major
airline.
And seniority looks pretty
good at most of them still.
I think Delta's hired a lot,
but outside of that, most airlines
are still need a lot of
pilots, especially ones that are
retiring.
Like, I think one airline's
retiring like 2,000 people in the
next three years.
That's just insane.
So you're still in the right spot.
It's going to get better.
Just keep your head down.
And you also have to know if
you're at a regional, you're making
way more money than what you
made as a regional pilot or what
people made in, like early
2000s or 1999.
It's like you are.
You were able to afford an apartment.
A lot of people had welfare and.
A joke back when I first
started flying.
And even in the late 90s, you
know, what's the difference between
a regional pilot and a large pizza?
A large pizza can feed a
family of four.
A regional pilot couldn't.
A lot of regional pilots
actually could afford.
Could qualify for food stamps.
And one regional airline, kind
of the union of that airline made
posters saying our pilots
qualify for food stamps.
So what that regional airline
do, they raise the pay just above
the food stamp level so they
couldn't qualify anymore.
They didn't have to do a
decent pay wage.
Yeah, they just raised their
level enough so they couldn't qualify
food stamps anymore.
And it had the pettiness
between an airline and a union when
they get into negotiations is
just wild.
Like the stuff that goes down
in the tactics used, it's just so
crazy.
But I want to go back a little
bit to talking about struggling.
Not necessarily struggling,
but thinking if this is a bad idea
or why did I do this?
We talked about how you felt.
What about your wife?
Your wife was the one that
kind of like pushed.
Not necessarily pushed you,
but kind of gave you the push over
the edge.
Like, hey, I can't take you
being sad anymore.
I want you to be happy.
Let's do this.
Was she in this moment, even
maybe in training when she saw how
it took you away a little bit,
maybe your life changed a little
bit.
And then especially when you
were the most junior person sitting
airport reserve for a year,
she's got to be like, this kind of
sucks.
Can you call your boss back?
Yeah, she was concerned about
me not flying, but maybe that she
kind of nudged me into this
career and here I am not doing the
career.
Thankfully, she's been very
supportive of this entire time.
Even when as a pilot, you
know, sometimes you're going to miss
events, family events and
everything else.
Thankfully, she's been very
supportive and it took a long time
and I got hired in 07 and I
went to a historically long upgrade
regional.
I didn't upgrade to captain
and for, good lord, eight years,
eight and a half years.
So here I was eight years down
and we had, at the time we had an
eight year pay scale and said,
oh, don't worry, you're never gonna
get the top of the pay scale.
I did.
So I got no raise, finally
upgraded to Captain and then it wasn't
until eight and a half years
where I actually made more money
on paper than I did before I
started flying.
Excluding inflation, just pure
dollar value, it took eight and a
half years to get to that
level again.
So it was a struggle.
Thankfully, we've always lived
under our means.
We've never been money, money,
money kind of thing.
So we haven't always been
extremely comfortable and fortunate
financially.
We've struggled quite a bit to
get to where we are now.
But thankfully, again, she
supported me the entire time.
So I like how you bring up the
struggles of the career changes because
Instagram, you look at it, you
know, you see 777 pilot, you see
videos, you see everything.
I'm going to London again for
the 15th time and people are like,
oh my gosh, I would love to do that.
Right.
There's a lot of people
sitting right now that are engineers
that are in it, that are doing
something else.
And we're in a similar
situation that you were in in 2006
when you made the jump,
knowing everything.
You know.
Now, if you could see a 10
year path, that would or what is
it now?
How long has it been?
Almost 20 years.
18 years?
17 years?
Yeah.
So if you could see 17 years
into the future from when you made
that decision of what your
career would look like, would you
still do it again?
Has it been everything that
you hoped it would be now or would
you recommend someone to stay
at your job, maybe just rent a 172
and go fly?
No, I would still do it, but I
would make changes in my career path.
I tell the story often in that
I learned to fly with three other
gentlemen.
They were all younger than me
and we all went to the regionals
in 0607 and right away they
started networking and going to job
fairs and conventions and volunteering.
And I'm like, I'm good.
I'm just going to Fly for my regional.
I can't afford to do what you
guys are doing.
Fast forward five, six years,
they all left the regionals and they
went to mainline.
And here I was still at my regional.
And so what I tell people
nowadays is when you get to your
regional past your first year
of probation and then after that
first year, your primary job
is no longer flying with that regional.
If you don't want to stay, if
you want to stay there, fine, stay
there.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But if you want to go to
mainline, your new job is getting
to mainline, not flying for
the regional by again, going to every
single airline convention you
can, shaking hands and taking notes
at every speaking event, engagement.
Don't just go to the doctors
and shake hands, listen to the speakers,
improve yourself, improve your
resume to get to where you want to
be.
Because again, if I had
followed what those three guys did,
I would have been much further
in my career.
Again, it is what it is.
But I, and I'm happy where I
am, don't get me wrong.
But I would have done that differently.
I would have, if I could go
back in time, I would have changed
that course and take control
of my career earlier in life.
Versus sit back in the right
seat and just wait.
When you were looking at a
major airline, was there anything
that was very important to you?
Was there, I don't want to
move, I don't want to commute.
Was there anything that kind
of narrowed down certain ones?
Or would you recommend someone
move if they had to or kind of explain
the situation of finding your
dream airline?
And did you apply to everyone
or was it just like, I want one and
that's it?
So initially when I saw my
friends leave, I'm like, oh crap,
they all left.
I did cast a wide net to
everybody, but that was just out
of frustration because in all,
you know, keeping it real, most of
the time I'm not at the
airport, I'm not flying right, I'm
at home.
So I say, where do you want to
live is the most important thing.
And also where does your
spouse want to live?
And if you, if you can move to
a big city where your airline has
a hub, that's going to be a
win win if you can both be happy
there.
For me and my wife,
thankfully, I live 10 miles from
the biggest hub we have in my airline.
So it was a no brainer to get
to that airline.
But I tell people, listen, if
you live in Des Moines, Iowa and
your spouse is an accountant,
they have an established career and
an Established family network
in Des Moines, Iowa.
And you want to do this
career, then you need to have the
talk and figure out how you're
going to make it work as far as commuting
for the rest of your career to make.
And what airline, major
airline, would be the best for you
and your family and your whole situation.
But for me, it was a no
brainer to pick where I am now because
It's.
I live 10 miles from the hub
quite a lot.
For me, it's all quality of life.
Always quality of life over
paycheck and everything else.
Yeah, for sure.
I would 100% agree with that.
Yeah.
Anything I can do to see my
kid more.
Right.
And my wife.
Yep.
I can't just say my kid.
I got married one time and
that's it.
Yeah, right.
That's the dream, man.
That is the dream.
So regional pilot for a while.
Like you said, you upgraded
and you matched the eight years.
They said that no one will
ever be on 8 year salary.
Was there ever a time where
you thought, like, maybe I'm just
going to be at a regional,
like maybe this is where my career
like kind of stops or this is
like the prize.
I mean, I was really then just
frustrated from like year five to
year eight because at year
four at my airline, it was a five
year upgrade.
I'm seeing people a year ahead
of me get captain.
Oh, it's one more year.
You know what, I'll be captain.
Just got one more year back to
year five.
Okay.
Now it's a six year upgrade.
But hey, don't worry, it's
almost there.
And it's a little carrot right
in front of the horse like I'm almost
there.
It was very, it was very
frustrating, especially seeing my
peers go to Mainline.
Right.
And here I am still at a
regional and you know, it's, it is.
And it is what it is.
You never know in this career
if you made the right career choices
until you retire and look back
at your whole life again.
Right.
My friends that went to Delta
and JetBlue, who knows, maybe the
airline I work for will get
massive and eclipse them and I'll
be way ahead of them one day.
You never really know.
But you have to play the hand
you're dealt and make the best choice
for you.
And for me.
I'm glad I didn't try to go
sideways because then I had offers
back in 20.
I upgraded captain in 2016,
2015, 2016.
In 2014, I had direct inter
captain offers from other regionals
which meant I would have
commute and my wife and I talked
about it and like, hey, you
know, we have a three and a half
year old kid.
I could be double my pay right away.
I could be captain time right
away, but I would be commuting.
And we ran the numbers and
looked at our family and said, you
know what, it wasn't worth the
financial increase for the huge decrease
in family time and home time.
So it's.
Yeah, you know, it was very frustrating.
It was a hard choice to make
to not get in.
I had multiple offers because
I played a game one day where I hit
apply and I applied to three
airlines at noon and had phone calls
from two of them by one and
another one by 5pm all offering direct
entry captain positions.
Right then.
Yeah.
When you're in that state of
mind where maybe frustration is taking
over and, and maybe like a
little bit of jealousy, right?
Like I want to be where they
are, how do you keep that from entering
your mind and just like fully
taking over and becoming that bitter
pilot that no one wants to fly with.
So for me, it's always, I've
flown with people that again, is
what it is.
But have had multiple ex wives
are just unhappy to be where they
are because of whatever is
going on at home.
I rather can.
Most of my time I'm not flying
an airplane.
I'm at home with my family.
Right.
So I'd rather be.
I have a happy home life and a
decent work life now.
I'm not saying go work for a
scummy airline and be treated horribly.
I was treated fine.
I was compensated okay.
I was flying.
By that point in my career, I
was pretty senior as my first officer,
so I was flying the chips.
I wanted to fly.
It was just a financial thing
for me really.
You know what I'm flying, I'm
getting weekends off, holidays off
trips.
I want, I guess I work hard to
where I get to where I want to be.
So was it.
It was frustrating, but yeah,
yeah, I.
Mean it's extremely
frustrating when you feel like you're
just getting passed over
because we all fly airplanes, right?
Like, I mean, it's just,
you're like, what the heck?
Why?
Why him?
Like, I know, like, I've seen
him fly.
Trust me, you don't want him.
And that's one thing with the
industry that people, you know, people
say, my upgraded captain, the
first time saying, people say, oh,
congratulations for upgrading
the captain.
It's like, congratulations
that I stuck around so long.
Right?
Because in the United States,
on almost every airline you become
captain not because you're an
amazing pilot.
No, because your seniority got
to the point where you could be captain.
Now you have to still check
out as a captain with the FAA and
the airline.
Right.
But by that point, we can all fly.
As you said, we can all fly airplanes.
So it is what it is.
I say that.
I say that a lot.
It is what it is.
Just is what it is.
Right?
Yeah.
I say smile and wave.
You know, Madagascar, the penguins.
Like, just smile and wave.
That's all you can do.
Was there a moment?
I feel like this moment is
different for everyone.
For me, it really wasn't until
I got hired at the job I'm at now.
But was there a moment where
you finally felt like a real pilot?
Because, you know, when you.
When you're flying, whether
you're flying a small plane or private
jet, they're like, oh, what
airline do you fly for?
And then you have to explain
to them, and you're like, well, I
actually fly this.
And then it's like, oh, you
fly for regional.
Like, what airline do you fly for?
Well, technically, I fly for
this one, which can also operate
under this one, this one and
this one.
But now they ask you the
question, what airline do you fly
for?
You're like, oh, I fly for
this one.
Right.
You know, did.
Did you ever have a moment
when you finally felt like, I'm an
airline pilot or I'm a real pilot?
Yeah.
So I got lucky that the
regional I flew for, originally the
name on the side of the
airplane was actually the name we
flew for.
That was a good thing, but
people kind of knew it.
I think why I became a real
pilot was when I could say, I'm flying
to la, then I have an
overnight in New York when I'm flying,
like, big cities, not I'm
flying to Manhattan, Kansas, and
Grand Island, Nebraska, you
know, flying to a major city, and
I fly for the actual mainline carrier.
I think that's when people
kind of got it and then upgrade equipment
to the Now.
I'm on a triple seven widebody now.
It's like, people get it.
You know, people say, oh, wow,
what are you flying to now?
And I say, London.
Oh, London's amazing.
So, yeah, it's amazing.
But bigger cities and bigger
airplanes, and if the actual name
on the side of the airplane is
the airline that people actually
know.
Yeah, yeah.
So you, regional captain, you
make it into, you know, the new mainline
job that you have.
What was the training like for you?
What was getting to, like, the
last job, knowing you never or should
never have to apply to another
job ever again.
So it was a little frustrating.
I interviewed at my mainline
carrier in June of 17 and I interviewed
with 10 people, four
civilians, six military.
And the next week all six
military got the call.
US four civilians had a radio
silence until August.
It was a delay.
And then they said, oh,
welcome aboard.
First class was in November.
So here I was hired in August
and then had to go to November.
And I keep flying My little
RJ, right.
Yeah.
@ the Main Line.
And then I had.
I was flying at 175 as a
captain in my regional, got the Main
Line and I had a choice
between either Dallas, Super 80 or
LA, New York, Airbus 73.
I'm like, do I want to fly
this old Super 80 or do I want to
fly a more modern plane?
And I picked the Super 80
because again, quality of life.
But here I was at mainline
flying this old airplane to every
city I flew to in my regional
because at the time the Super 80
was on its way out.
So I was flying to Lubbock and
Amarillo and Pensacola.
So here I am in mainline,
flying to everywhere.
I flew at my regional over
that whole year on that plane.
I flew to one new city, Tampa.
What was it?
Tampa.
Oh, wow.
Getting crazy, man.
Everywhere else we flew was an
old RJ city.
But I mean, it was, it was
very stressful, especially going,
changing airlines, because
when you go to a new airline, you.
You have to pass.
If you don't pass training,
you're out.
And now you had no job to go
back to.
Right.
So here I was going to
mainline my last ever job and I'm
learning on this archaic airplane.
It was extremely stressful.
Yeah, yeah, that was.
So I flew private.
I flew at NetJets previously
and I flew the Citation Latitude
and it had the nicest avionics.
The G5000 had SiriusXM.
You could pull the map out,
you could go look at the weather
in Russia.
You could, I mean, just like
do anything with the avionics that
you wanted to.
And one of my fears was moving
down and going down in technology
because I was so spoiled.
Like, I mean, LPV approaches,
like all the fancy RNAV equipment.
Like, I was just like, I like this.
I don't want to go to the 73
and have to relearn new avionics
and all that kind of stuff.
So I was actually worried
about that when I did that.
Now I finally made the jump
and I realized that they are not
hard to learn at all and
they're very simple and you have
enough information you have
plenty of information to know everything
that you want to know.
Might not be able to check the
weather in Russia as easily as you
could.
My last job.
But you know who really needs
to do that?
That was just when you're
bored on like a six hour flight,
you're like oh, what's the
weather doing here?
Or where's a hurricane going?
And actually had like
hurricane tracks.
Using Sirius xm I could like
see what the hurricane's going to
hit in like two days.
Like that's kind of cool.
Wow.
But yeah, it was, it was
something that I was worried about.
But it turned out it did not
need to worry about it.
Training was a non event like
you said, it's, it's really stressful
right when you're coming to
the training just cause it's such
a big moment, you're like I
finally made it here.
Yeah, I can't fail out.
You know, it's like I can't.
So you probably are putting
way too much pressure on yourself
to be honest with you.
And they're probably, the
instructors are probably like you're
fine.
Like you just need to calm down.
You know, it's like the Taylor
Swift song, just calm down.
Because again you're, you're
still, you're a pilot at your main
line, but you still have a
whole family.
Like you know, you have all
this stuff at home to worry about
too.
All the family and you, you
know, you're in training thinking
if I don't make this, can't
pay bills and everything else going
at home.
So it's a, it's a lot to going
on in your whole, you know, you're,
you're at your last carrier
but you.
So if you don't pass then what
are you gonna do?
And yeah, it was a lot.
Would you, would you say your
Super 80 training was the hardest
one that you had then with all
that pressure you had?
Yeah, it wasn't.
Yeah, it wasn't.
Again, being new here,
extremely old airplane, old fashioned
way of teaching it.
And even the sim was so old at
that point.
I had three type ratings and
then so here, this is my fourth type
range.
So I know how to fly a sim,
but everything I've been in has been
a modern Sim.
The Super 80 Sim was so old
you could only see out of your window,
meaning I couldn't see outside
the captain's window at all.
So you're just looking at one
portion of the field of view and
all the old fashioned dials,
lots of manual work.
It was very, very Different.
All right, so doesn't sound
like too many fantastic things to
say about your super radio.
Now, I might be wrong, but I
want to hear at least two good things
about the Super 80 that you.
That you either enjoyed or you
reminisce on every once in a while.
It was extremely quiet up front.
Okay, it was extremely quiet
up front.
And what else was fun about it?
It was.
It did require a higher level
of attention from the pilot to turn
on the wing and the tail.
Anti ice was seven steps and
you were moving, man.
You had to move levers and
switches in a particular order to
turn on the wings and tail.
It was seven steps to do it.
So it was a little bit more meticulous.
And people say, oh, that's a
real pilot.
But no, it's also a lot more
workload and everything else.
So.
I appreciated the engineers
who made the airplane because every
time I pulled a lever, it was
actually doing something.
Versus in a modern plane, it's
just a button and some wiring behind
it.
So.
But it was very quiet up front.
Yeah, I mean, that's how I
feel with the shutdown.
With the shutdown flow on the
7 3M to something like.
Like flipping all these
buttons and stuff.
It's like, what?
I was a brand new hire at my regional.
My wife and I went to D.C.
before we had kids, and we
came back on a 7:3.
Yeah.
And she got this in the back.
I was in a jump seat.
First time ever in a jump seat
was 737.
And Catherine was an awesome guy.
He said, darren, look at this.
This is all state of the art.
I look up top, 1960s Southwest
Airlines, and just watching them
do all the switches and
levers, I'm like, I don't ever want
to fly this plane.
And so when I came to
mainline, I'm like, okay, super ready.
This is my old airplane.
I'm never gonna fly 737.
Yeah.
So that taught me.
Yeah.
Bless your heart.
You guys have that seven three.
You guys do it.
I couldn't.
I couldn't do it.
You know what?
I've learned to love it.
I'm not gonna lie.
I don't know if it's.
Cause I'm too dumb to know
anything else, but I'm sure if I
got to the Airbus, you know,
you sit down, you're like, oh, wow,
it's so.
Narrow in that stuff.
It's so narrow.
And that wheel of death.
Yeah.
Watch out for your.
You know, if your knees spin it.
If your knee is a little bit
out too Much.
And it just boom.
Yeah, it can get you, you
know, put some hair in your chest,
right?
It makes you unnecessarily.
Every time it moves.
I'm always like, all right,
you're gonna stop, right?
Like, we're not running away.
Please stop.
Yeah, uh, yeah, it's.
It's fun.
You know, it.
I was worried about it, like I
said earlier, but I mean, everything
you can do is plenty enough
for me.
Um, maybe one day I'll get the Airbus.
Um, I do want to go to
Charlotte, so, I mean, that's a big
base there for the Airbus and
also has a 7, 3 base as well, so
we'll see.
But the dream is to be a
triple seven or 787 pilot.
Um, I want to talk a little
bit about that for you too, so.
Okay.
Why did you.
You know they are paying an
ungodly amount of money for captains
for IR, early year captains
upgrading in 2, 3, 4, whatever it
might be.
Was it a hard decision for you?
Because, you know, this is
kind of an opportunity for you to
be like you said, you guys
have always been living under your
means.
You took out a loan.
Being a major airline captain
can solve a lot of financial problems
in a lot of people's lives.
Was it hard for you to say no
to that?
Was it a big conversation with
you and your wife?
Or was it something like, you
know, we love quality life.
I think this triple seven will
give me a better quality life.
So me, I've always been a
quality of life person.
And so before I left the
Airbus, I was bidding in the top
12%.
So I was getting the trips I wanted.
Weekends off, holidays off work.
I want to for the most part, right?
And I was playing the system
where I was getting captain money
flying as a first officer, I
was crediting like 115amonth, flying
60 yards a month.
I didn't fly very much, but I
was a high credit, low time fly guy.
So I told my wife, now listen,
I'm either I'll go be captain when
it makes sense for me, quality
of life wise, or go be wide body
first officer when it makes
quiet makes sense, right?
And so I said, I'm going to
bid wide body first officer two more
times.
I kept bidding it, only in
Dallas because I'm not going to commute
for it.
And I said, well, I'm going to
bid it one more time.
Can't get this.
Next time I'll stay first
officer, talking to be a line holding
captain on the Airbus and call
it done.
Well, I finally Got awarded
wide body first officer and it is
a pay difference.
Right.
Even so, going from Airbus FO
to Wide Body FO, it's about a $60
an hour raise, about 60 grand
a year.
And then to be captain on the
Airbus or 7:3 is another 60,000.
60 grand a year, $60 an hour.
So I'm like, you know, it's a
lot more money being captain.
Absolutely.
But then we make a lot of
money as it is.
Even a wide body first officer
makes more than a quarter million
dollars a year.
Um, we're totally fine.
I ran the numbers on it.
There's a website I went to
and I ran the numbers and I'm fine.
I'm probably going to stay
where I am until I can hold three
day trips as a Airbus captain.
Because right now I do three
day trips as a triple seven first
officer.
I'm not, I'm not a four day
trip kind of person.
This is not me.
What are you going to do when
you got to fly like more than one
leg a day though?
Are you spoiled now?
So I laugh at that because
back in my regional days I used to
buy five legs a day.
Yeah.
And so here I am in my main
line I did three legs a day at most,
plus maybe a dead head sometimes.
But nowadays it's just one leg
and I'm like, man, this is kind of
nice, just doing checklists
one time.
Yeah, just once it'd be different.
But again, even my three day
trips I used to do, I was a 2, 2,
2 guy or a 2, 1, 2 guy.
I'm not at 3, 4, 3.
No, no, no.
I'll wait till I can hold good
trips because again, for me it's
all quality of life.
I make plenty of money as it is.
I don't need to go be captain
just for the money.
So no.
So that's one thing I
appreciate about where I'm flying
right now, New York.
It seems to be a lot of two
legs with the occasional three legs.
But I have really grown to
like just flying twice on one day.
My last job would be some
three, five legs a day, mostly like
four to five.
And it's like, ah, it's kind
of nice just doing two, you know,
one, one captain gets a
landing, I get a landing, then we're
done and then we have 16 hours off.
Like this is great.
But yeah, if I start seeing
three and four, I might be like,
I need to get some seniority.
And that was a weird thing for
me going the landing thing you mentioned,
because I used to Land, you
know, on a three day trip, I would
land three, four times.
Right now on a three day trip,
I might land once, but I might not
land at all because I might be
relief pallet.
So that was a big mental thing
for me initially was going to the
airport in uniform and not
taking off or landing.
That was weird for me
especially going like two, three
weeks sometimes and never
landing or taking off.
That I've been on a plane now
six months.
I have 19 landings in six months.
That's crazy.
I used to do 19 landings in a month.
So that was a big change for me.
When with that mentality, is
it hard to stay fresh?
Is it hard?
I guess fresh in the right word.
Is it hard to keep your skills up?
Cause even if you take like a
week off sometimes you can feel a
little bit behind, right?
Like you gotta, you got to go.
I see that you post some sim stuff.
Do you do that to help you
kind of stay in the flow of things
and help keeping the flying
kind of like relevant and new?
Or do you just do that for content?
Or I guess talk about just
having not as many take off and landings
as you've had.
So in the beginning I was
doing it just to have an idea.
And I say, can you stay fresh
and current, especially with the
new, because where you fly the
triple seven is very different.
How fly the Airbus?
So just to stay current, get
my head into the new flows and profiles
and everything else.
Now nowadays more it's mostly
just for sim content.
But before I do a trip, if I
know I'm gonna be an fo, I will crack
open the iPad and just go
through the profiles real quick in
my head just to make sure I
know what to do and what to do and
when to do it.
The flows are pretty easy, but
the profiles and everything else,
just to make sure I'm saying
the right thing at the right time.
And landing, yeah, landings
are all over the place.
Sometimes they're really good.
But that's Triple seven is
such a big airplane and so, so high
that I've had really good wins
and, and like either really good
or yeah, I float and then land.
And I'm just thankful that
they have great breaks in a triple
seven.
Yeah, for good reason.
Cause it's so big.
Um, it, it's funny you talk
about sitting up high.
Um, so coming from the private
jet world, coming to the 7:3, you
set up way higher in a 7:3
versus the plane I flew in.
So my first couple landings,
trying to figure out where the gear
was in Relation to the ground,
it was just.
Oh man.
I had one landing in Dallas.
I was like, holy smokes.
Like, thank goodness for this
gear being an absolute beast.
Yeah, that was a, that was a
soul crushing one that will stick
with me for rest of my life.
But I got it out of the system
and now everything seems to be working
better and doing well.
But yeah, the, the planes can
humble you and especially the Triple
seven.
Yeah, you need to keep that
momentum going and I can imagine
that it can get hairy pretty quick.
But I've always been told the
Triple seven is just a great responding
airplane and the way it flies
is pretty fantastic.
It is, it's very, it's.
We had twos and threes and
they fly differently.
But it's so big, it's such a
small yoke.
But it's fly by wire so that
you put in similar to Airbus, you
put in what you want.
It's so you control it less
than you do like on a 737, but coming
in in a crosswind, you know,
in a normal plane you can like kick
it over and turn it and or
even like let the wind push you onto
center line.
If you do a little bit down
one right, the Triple seven doesn't
move.
So you can have it so bad
crosswind, that thing ain't moving
from centerline.
It's very different than the
plane I've done previously.
Yeah.
What was the hardest thing
moving into the Triple seven?
Was it just forgetting how
Airbus works?
Was it figuring out how big
the airplane was?
Was it truly just how much
higher you're sitting above the ground?
It was for me, it was using my
thumb again to trim because being
on the Airbus for five years,
I never had to trim.
It was auto trimming device
and the Boeing ways of flying the
plane as far as the autopilot
and the control panel, like the whole
V nav path thing was very
different to me.
And then just the ways of
controlling the plane.
Boeing and Airbus speak
entirely differently on how things
work.
So kind of forgetting the
Airbus mentality and going to the
777 mentality, it was very different.
It's a very different way of
doing things.
Yeah, that's what I've been told.
And just the theories behind
how an Airbus works that you have
to learn.
And then Boeing is just kind
of pull back.
I mean.
Yeah, yeah.
For landing, the Airbus wants
to know so much information that
wants to know the barometric
pressure, the wind, the temperature,
all these things.
The Boeing knows what flaps do
you want?
Yeah, it's like Land.
Good luck, dude.
That's your job, not my job.
Yeah, good luck.
All right, fly boy.
Fly.
Yeah.
You wanted to be a pilot.
Here you go.
Let's do it.
Yeah.
Um, so looking back now on,
well, I guess the question be, do
you have any regrets in the
path that you chosen?
I know that you kind of
mentioned that earlier on you might
have done things a little bit
differently, but now that you're
kind of at the end of the goal
like that you're in the plane that
people dream about flying.
Yeah.
Has there been any regrets
about anything at all other than
what we talked about earlier,
about maybe maintaining the ability
after your first year of just
playing the game, going to the conferences
and trying to get on with
airline faster?
I would have.
I would have started my career earlier.
Right.
I mean, I started at 29, I'm
47 now.
Also would have started in my
earlier 20s.
It been nicer to start a
little, have a longer career.
I still have, by the time I
retire, I'll have 35 years in industry.
But I wish I would have
started a little earlier because
getting so many people, it's
easy to say, one day I'm going to
do it, one day I'm going to do it.
One day I'm going to do it.
And to actually do it is a big thing.
And I wish I would done it
earlier in my career.
Yeah.
And I think that's a big thing.
Right?
It's.
Some people think it's so hard
to get into aviation, and I always
say that it's almost like it
seems like it's hard to get into,
but once you just take that
first phone call, it's like, we won't
stop bothering.
It's like, come back, come back.
Like here, you're in the club
now, like you just had to make that
first move, essentially, and
just make the call, go to the airport
and then you realize that it's
a very welcoming place and they will
pretty much get you up on an
airplane same day if it's what you
want to do, you know.
And the biggest barriers are
financial and health and, you know,
we can't control our health
and our genetics, so to speak.
And financial.
It's a big.
It's a big hill to climb.
But so many people just look
at the price tag and say, oh, I can't
do it.
Versus, again, there's so many
grants and scholarships out there
that won't pay for the whole
thing, but they'll pay for part of
your private.
Yeah.
Part of your instrument.
And you can piece it together
that way.
But the health thing is the
one that stops a lot of people.
But if you can get past the
health thing, the financial thing
can't be solved.
You know what I've learned
about a lot of the grants and scholarships
that a lot of them go
unapplied to.
So you never know.
You might be the only person
that applies to that.
And they will just give you
the money.
And like you said, it might not.
It might be a thousand
dollars, it might be $750, but if
you apply to 10 of those, they
start adding up.
And that's going to pay for a
healthy chunk of your training, or
at least.
I know people online that have
had almost all their ratings for,
paid for by, as you said, a
little bit here, a little bit there,
a little bit here.
And they piece it all
together, apply.
To the scholarships and grants.
Just do it.
It might take your time, it
might take some more time, but it's
worth it because like we said,
you never know.
It's free money and it could
just be there for you.
So let's talk a little bit
about social media.
You mentioned that you've been
doing social media for a while.
Was this aviation social media?
Was this just social media in general?
Was the goal to like, did you
want to be a social media creator
or is it just an outlet for you?
So it all started for me back
in like March 2020 during like start
of COVID It was sitting at
home doing nothing.
And I picked up my phone, I
picked up thing called TikTok.
I'm like, this is kind of silly.
I can make these videos.
You know, I'm a geeky guy.
I'm in it.
I have a degree in journalism,
so I can put some words together.
So I started making silly
videos that way.
Then I said, you know, I can
do some like, aviation stuff to help
people out, right?
So then I started making
aviation content primarily on TikTok.
And then I kind of switched
over to YouTube instead.
But by doing so, I got people
interested in aviation.
And people were asking
questions like, oh, how do you be
a pilot?
And it was.
It's been really rewarding,
especially in the beginning.
My claim to fame is one young
lady up in Illinois, she messaged
me saying, kept asking
questions about how to be a pilot.
And she never even thought
about being a pilot at the time.
She was 19, 20 years old.
And I'm like, oh, that's what
you do.
That's what you do.
And I thought for sure she
wasn't going to follow up and she
following up and kept asking
more and more questions and I was
so proud of.
I got to meet her for the
first time last year at sun and Fun
and she got her first airline gig.
Cool.
And it was so rewarding
knowing that.
And she said it wasn't for me.
She would never even gone down
this path.
So when I first, when I first
saw her start flying, I'm like, man,
this is pretty cool.
And so I do it now just to
help people understand about what
it is to be an airline pilot.
Because it's so much fake
media out there.
You know, some people
glamorize the lifestyle, make it
more than it really is.
I try to tell it how it really
is and I try to answer questions
verbatim, not sugarcoating it,
and give people honest answers and
as unbiased as I can so they
can get the information they need
to maybe hopefully pursue this career.
It's a great career that has
so much mystery about it.
People don't really understand
what it is, how did they do it?
And what it really means to be
an airline pilot.
Yeah, there's a lot of mystery
to it because there's a bunch of
people that have always looked
up in the air.
And what's crazy, the amount
of respect pilots get.
My wife's a doctor.
My wife hangs out with doctor friends.
And as soon as they find out
I'm a pilot, they're like, they literally
get out of the conversation
like, you're a pilot?
Oh, my gosh, that's so cool.
I wish I was a pilot.
I'm like, it's like, dude,
your job is pretty cool too.
And he's like, yeah, but like
pilot, man.
It's like, I can't.
They can't.
I can't stop talking to them
about aviation.
You know, it's one of those
things you're like, I don't want
to talk.
Okay, talk planes again, let's
do it.
But it's a very respected job
and it's someone that a lot of people
look up to it and just showing
them that they have the ability to
do it because almost anyone
can do this job.
You can be trained to be a pilot.
And I really, like, push that.
I was similar to you thought,
you know, you had to be really smart.
You thought there was so many
barriers, you had to go to the military.
That's not the case.
That is not the case at all.
You can do this.
Anyone sitting at home.
I mean, obviously there are
some restrictions that you need to
get a first class medical to
see if you can do this for a living
before you invest way too much money.
But you can do this, which is
really cool.
And that's really cool to hear
that you're able to help someone
out.
And I'm sure you've helped
more people out than just that one
person, but it's awesome.
Has.
Has there been any negatives
to having social media?
Has there been, you know, how
aviation influencers are kind of
thought of by their peers now?
I don't know if it has
something to do with a little bit
of jealousy that they're not
influencers, that could be completely
wrong, or if they just like to
hate on people that are trying to
do the influencer thing.
But have you seen any
negative, like, side or feedback
from that or even had any bad
interactions with anyone?
Yeah, there's.
So some of the older, I call
it the older.
I mean, I'm 47.
People older than me say, why
are you posting that online?
You shouldn't be posting
anything about that.
It should be all secret.
I'm like, what is secret about
being a pilot?
You know?
You know, flying, teaching
people how to fly across the ocean
or how to get into this career?
Well, they don't get it.
You know, they had their
little jitterbug phone and they go
to the hotel and they ever go
away, that negative activity.
And then I've also had some
interaction with an airline I work
for, because you have to be
very cautious doing social media.
When you work for any company,
not even just an airline, but you
work for Coca Cola.
If you ever attempt to be a
spokesman for that company, that
can get you in hot water.
So you have to have to kind of
walk a very tight rope about what
I put online, what I don't put
online, and what I even say, even
though I don't ever verbatim
say who I work for, it's easy to
figure out who I work for.
So it's a very tight line.
And I do see some people post
online, especially the younger generation,
and they're posting things.
I'm like, I can get you fired.
You got to be careful about
what you put online.
I'm from.
Thankfully, I've been around a
long time.
I kind of get it.
Some people don't understand
that once it's online for a second,
it's online forever.
So you have to be extremely
cautious about what you put online
for social media.
Yeah, I mean, unfortunately,
as you'll probably see a lot of the
coolest photos or coolest
videos that you may have are Ones
that you cannot post.
And it could be crazy.
Amazing sunsets, sunrises, the
northern lights.
A couple weeks ago, we had
some amazing northern lights going
to London.
The whole sky was enveloped in
all these beautiful colors.
I'm like, and no one can ever
see this sight.
And we turned all the lights
down on the flight deck and.
And said, man, this is
absolutely amazing, and no one will
ever see it.
I used to fly to Tegucigapa, Honduras.
This crazy approach going in
there, like diving down, not diving,
but the guy was getting
through this tight terrain, this
tight turn.
Like, our airline chart had me
looking for a Home Depot and a highway
and a modern Airbus to get
into this airport and hearing sink
rate, sink rate, sink rate all
the way around.
The pattern was amazing.
It'd be an awesome video.
No one ever know about.
No one ever see it, because we
can't film that kind of stuff.
Yeah.
And when you mentioned kind of
interacting with the airline, if
the airline knows what you do,
it's only a problem.
It's never a problem until it
becomes a problem.
Right.
Like, I'm sure there's things
that they'll let slide or things
that, like, oh, this is great
engagement for our airline.
But as soon, as soon as
someone above them says, hey, we
can't do that stuff, that's
when the hammer drops.
But has there been any
guidance from them at all?
Has there been any like, hey,
we love this, or like, this, or they
just kind of let you do your
own thing?
No.
So I've reached out a few
times, got nothing back.
I posted one video back in
March, and they did.
I got a phone call saying,
we'd appreciate it if you took that
down.
And it's only because I happen
to mention the exact fuel burn we
had.
I mentioned too much specific data.
You can't mention how much the
plane, how much fuel we carry, our
cargo we carry, or that kind
of thing.
So I said, all right.
So I took that down.
And I've just been very
generic ever since then.
Who called you?
Was it the chief pilot or was
it at, like, public relations?
No, the chief pilot.
Oh, wow.
And he's a super nice guy.
He's a super nice guy.
And I said, hey, can I talk to
the people you're talking to?
No.
Oh, well, can you ask them
this question for me?
I can ask them.
And I get back saying they
can't answer that question.
I'm like, okay.
And it's unfortunate because I.
Yeah, the next generation of
pilots, they are on TikTok.
They are on YouTube, they're
on Instagram.
Right.
That's how they see things.
That's how they get some of
their news and their data.
Right.
So if you don't have that out
there for them, then.
But another airline does.
They're seeing airline X, Y
and Z have all the social media and
then the other airline has nothing.
So they would be gravitated
toward them because again, that's
where they are versus the old stalwarts.
You know, it's unfortunate.
I just interviewed Paul from
my layover life and he works for
United and it really seems like.
I don't want to say they've
like dove like all the way in, but
United has welcomed influencers.
Aviation influencers almost.
They've had social media days.
Yeah.
And it looks like, I mean, I
think, I mean this is someone that
creates some content as well.
So I'm a little bit biased
toward what we do.
And there are people that
don't do it the right way.
I will fully say that there's
a right way in a certain way to protect
a brand because you hold a lot
in your hands and if you just have
a bad day and post something
dumb, it could really hurt your airline
or hurt where you work.
But when it's done right, it
is so much good press for who you
work for.
And it really just goes in the
mind of like, all right, well, I
love Paul's videos.
Like, United looks awesome.
They do this.
I want to fly that.
I look at this layover and in
their mind when they're applying
for airlines, you know, I
mean, they'll probably apply to all
of them, but they might show
some favoritism toward the one that
they have seen a lot on
Instagram or have been able to find
someone they can relate to who
works for that airline.
Absolutely.
So we'll see.
Yeah, it's unfortunate.
I wish my airline would be
more social media conscious and opening
to the.
Because there's tons of
creators at this airline I work for.
Some of them are extremely.
They're great.
And I know one that was.
They've been on for a while
and they posted something very so
minor in All Pokemon, they got
hand slapped hard by the airline.
So much so that they won't
post anything at all with anything
airline related anymore.
Like, and it's so for.
Because she makes great content.
She's an awesome woman.
And it's like, yeah.
And she posts stuff that now
that you can't even tell who she
works for.
People think she works for the
airline now because she won't Even
post anything related to who
we work for.
Because she had her hand
slapped hard, unfortunately.
Yeah.
I mean, I understand the
hesitant or the hesitancy of an airline
because, like we just talked
about, you hold a lot of power in
your hands, and they cannot
100% control what you do.
When you work for an airline,
you're always representing that airline.
Someone can always come back
and figure out who you work for and
if you do something.
When I worked at NetJets,
there was a guy in a car who started
screaming obscenities at
certain people, and they figured
out who we worked for, tagged
them on social media, and then the
company's like, oh, yeah, we can't.
We can't have you here anymore.
And they fired them.
So.
Yep.
And I'm not saying no.
Like, when you're out in
public, even walking through an airport
hotel getting gas and you're
in uniform, people are looking at
you.
They're always looking at you.
So be very mindful, because
again, at the same token, you can
do something stupid in public
with not even having your camera
turned on, but someone's
watching you.
And then.
Yeah, yeah, it's.
I guess it could be on the Internet.
And then seconds.
Yeah.
Yep.
Oh, yeah.
Even faster than that.
Yeah.
Post it before it'll be.
Live stream.
Before it's even over.
It's already.
You're already getting a call
from your chief pilot, like, what
are you doing?
Back when I first started
flying into the airlines, we had
a problem with back to the cabin.
Say, darren, go back and talk
to the pastor in 17A.
And I go back and talk to him.
Right.
Just say, hey, what's going on Nowadays?
Ain't no way.
Because as soon as you walk
back to the cabin, every iPhone is
on you.
Yeah.
People ask me, how do you deal
with upset passengers?
I don't.
We have people that are
trained to do that.
You'll never, ever see me on
any video ever, interacting with
the passenger in any kind of
negative way ever, ever, ever.
100% agree.
Fast way to lose your job, for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
As someone who has, I will
say, successfully changed careers,
especially now, you're looking
back on it.
There's ups and downs on the
changing of care.
And I'm sure there's moments
that we talked about earlier where
you're like, ah, this kind of sucks.
What did I do?
Yeah, but there's a lot of
people in your shoes, and they might
be in their 30s, they might be
in their 40s, they may be in their
20s.
They could have just Graduated
college and like I made a huge mistake.
I spent all my money to be an
engineer and I hate it.
I should have flown my airplanes.
What are two or three tips
that you would give someone in the
situation that you found
yourself in and what would you recommend
them do?
So again, you know, many
people are taught that you have to
go high school, get a degree
in college and go get a real job
and say you went to college
and you're an engineer, an accountant
and you're hating it.
Hey, you have a degree and you
have a highly sought after degree
in skill.
So all right, you're in this
current situation, go take a Discovery
flight, Google Discovery
flight near me and go up on an airplane
and see what it's like.
See, you might hate it and say
haha, not for me, no way.
Or you might love it.
Say if you love it.
Okay, well the person that's
giving you that Discovery flight
will be an instructor and they
can tell you the path to be an airline
pilot.
And then at worst, you can
start taking that money from that
degree you have.
Putting it aside and similar
to me, you can go twice a week, every
week and get your ratings done
and you have all your ratings done.
Great.
You have to build time.
You have a great paying job,
don't you?
At worst you can rent planes
and fly your friends and family around
and build your time.
And yeah, it might take you
five years, but you have a job that
you might not love, but you're
pretty good at it.
And you can do this whole
thing debt free or almost near debt
free, but I say at least try.
It's easy to say one day,
maybe again, that's every flight.
It's a couple hundred bucks, a
couple hours of your day.
Just go see if you even like
it or not.
Yep.
Yeah, I agree.
I think it's great, great advice.
And I feel like the earlier
you can make that choice, the better.
Right?
You get a little older, you're
like, well I'm going to retire in
10 years, I'm going to get
this or meet this quota soon.
If you can make that decision
as early as possible, it will probably
be a little bit easier for you.
It's always going to be scary,
it's always going to, but it's really
worth it.
And I think it's something you
should do as long as you know what
you're getting yourself into,
you know that the ups and the downs
and you could hit it at the
right time, you could hit this industry
at the worst possible time.
And then I think it's also
important, if you're not married
already, to prepare the person
you're going to marry, when or are
dating of what it looks like
to be in this career.
Because it is a very hard job
to be married to.
It is very difficult to find
someone that can put up with us.
And if you find someone that
can, there's many days where it just
absolutely sucks and it just
is what it is.
Yeah, and it's hard.
There's so many times in my
career where I've been stuck in a
hotel because of weather and
my wife is stuck at home with two
kids.
I filled roads and here, or
worse, I'm stuck in St.
Thomas on the beach.
She bark it.
She's like, don't you dare
send me a picture of a drink on an
island right now.
I've learned that when.
That if I'm somewhere exotic,
I call my wife from the hotel room
with a white wall behind me
and say, hey, how's it going?
I don't dare call from the
beach with a little Mai Tai in my
hand.
I love it.
No, no, no, no.
I haven't learned on the whole
spouse thing, you have to have a
talk, right?
Because as a.
And people always assume I'm
gone a lot.
When I, you know, I was on the
Airbus, I was averaged eight to nine
hotel nights a month, right?
I'm home quite a bit.
You know, even On I did 48
trips, if I had a late afternoon
start and I got done midday,
I'd be at home on day one.
Kids, school, breakfast, yada,
yada, say goodbye to the wife, fly,
come home mid afternoon, meet
the kids for dinner and I'm home,
right?
And then home for two or three
more days, right.
So I can do morning and
afternoon with the kids and everything
else.
I'm home a lot more than
people think I am.
And it helps.
I don't commute, but it is a
different lifestyle, a very different
lifestyle.
Absolutely.
Yeah, 100%.
And what's cool about aviation
is you don't have to be an airline
pilot.
If you think the fractional
world work for you, if you think
corporate work for you, if you
want to fly freight in a caravan
and just want to work like 6am
to 6pm, there's a job for you to
do it too.
You just got to be open to a
lot of things.
And I highly recommend that
you show up to the airport and you
be a good person because
people want to help you out in aviation.
They're looking for someone
that they want to see succeed.
So the better you are, the
better you treat people, the happier
you look.
You're gonna get more
opportunities than the person that
is just has their head down
and just looks like they're miserable.
I mean, I don't mean that to
be mean.
I don't mean to be hard on anyone.
It's just the truth.
Yep.
But.
Yeah, but, Darren, those are
all the questions I have for you,
man.
I appreciate you coming on.
It's cool to watch your social
media, to watch your YouTub videos.
I've never been a huge
aviation YouTube guy, but I do want
to fly the Triple 7 one day,
so it's.
It's fun to follow along.
And one day, I hope to be
flying to London for the 15th time
again.
And never go anywhere else
because you already speak Boeing.
Guys who speak Boeing.
My SIM partner with a 73
captain, he just walked into this
plane and, like, it was.
He knew it all.
It's a big 7 3, but, yeah,
it's easy for you.
Cool.
Well, sweet, man.
Well, maybe one day we'll be
on the Triple seven together.
You can be the captain.
Be hanging out on the right side.
There you go.
All right, man.
Well, hey, appreciate your
time, and I look forward to seeing
this episode come out.
We'll debrief a little bit
when we hang up, but I appreciate
it, man.