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Time Out is a podcast focused on current issues in sport leadership, performance, and health with a wide range of experts and industry leaders. This podcast is offered by the School of Sport Sciences in West Virginia University’s College of Applied Human Sciences.
Very little to do with the skillsets, you know, and much more to do with how you can emotionally empower kids to love what they're doing and where they are, and the feedback that you give them. Making them feel valued and accepted. And that's what everybody's after, right? They want to be a part of something.
And so I think when you drill it down for true little kid, youth, sports, that first experience, that's where the difference makers exist. We don't teach our coaches enough about how to love kids, how to care for kids, how to help kids be at their best, the way we train our teachers and empower our teachers to do the same.
And we, we miss that piece a lot of times. I. You're in a people business, and that's, that's who you are connecting with, and, and that's who you're working with. You know, it's with all the respect in the world, you're, you're not putting a lug nut on the car and an assembly line. They, that's not your job.
You know, your job is to get the most out of people. How do you get the most out of people? You help them feel valued. You help them feel appreciated. You empower them to do the things they're great at, but you can't do that if you don't know them.
My name is Dr. Peter McGeehan. I'm excited to be joined today by Dr. Joanna Lane. Dr. Lane is the Senior Director of Education and program development for the NFCA, the National Fast Pitch Coaches Association. Thank you very, very much for joining us today, Dr. Lane. I'm looking forward to our conversation today around creating a positive youth sport environment. Let's go.
Welcome, Joanne. I really appreciate you, uh, joining us on the Timeout podcast. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. We're, we're really excited to chat with you today about chatting about, about the importance of grassroots sports, connecting with our sports youth, sports coaches, and our youth sport, uh, families, about this grassroots environment and creating a positive environment for all our young folks playing, playing sports.
And I just wanted to start us off with this question about, I know that you're with, uh, national Fast Pitch Coaches Association. What, what do you do for them specifically? How much time do you have on this one, Peter is we get to do so much, uh, mostly as a membership organization, right? We have 6,500 softball coaches that are a member of the NFCA.
I work with our division one coaches, and I work with our travel ball coaches. So really tying together that piece from I. The grassroots side and our highest level of competition collegiately the Division one membership, but we do a lot of educational programs from our onsite events such as coaches, clinics, and our national convention, which we just wrapped last week.
And then we have think. Like everyone through the last several years really done a lot more of online education. Things that are applicable to a lot of different types of coaches that can be delivered to them in a lot of different ways, whether it's webinars, forums, zoom calls, anything to just get the coach on board and give them some resources where they can.
Put effort into leading their teams, leading the student athletes, sometimes leading the parents, whatever it might be. And, uh, but it's, it's something new every day, which, which makes my job a whole lot of fun. Awesome. Well, again, I, I appreciate you sharing a little bit of your expertise with us, with us, and with our audience today.
Uh, my first question, how did you fall in love with softball? You know, it's kind of funny you think about just what you are a product of as you're growing up. And you know, in my family I have a ton of cousins and I am one of the youngest, and there was always a sport being played and I always just wanted to play.
It didn't matter what it was. And so for me, just the ability to go out and play and, and do things, and it just so happened that, you know, softball. For me was what was available in my community. You know, we didn't have, uh, soccer, really, we didn't, which is strange. A lot of people has have soccer when they grow up, right?
We didn't, we didn't have that. Not that I run, but you know, we didn't have really basketball or volleyball from something that was organized. So softball was the first taste of team that I got, and that's always been my draw to sport. It's the leadership, the team, uh, the being able to work together, come together.
And so, For me, I think I just latched onto it early and even though I played three sports in high school and loved them all, and I'll watch anything when it comes on tv, there was always just something that, that got me really early about softball and, and baseball too, just growing up in the area, watching a lot of that as well, but it just, uh, just was something that became a part of my life pretty early.
Yeah, the those memories that are formed through our youth sports experiences are really, are really powerful. What is it about softball? You know, I, yeah, I think so. And, and there's something for everybody. You think about, what, what do you have to have to be a high level basketball player? People are gonna say, you gotta be fast, you gotta be tall, you gotta be, and in softball you watch, you can be anything I.
You can be five feet tall and run like the wind. You can have very little foot speed, but hit a ball a country mile. You know you can have extreme arm strength and find a spot defensively. Truly any type of body type athlete can succeed. On a softball field, and I think it really allows for a unique opportunity for kids to play and to see themselves in action.
We don't get that a lot. You know, you turn on the tv, sometimes you don't see kids that look like you, you don't see kids that play like you. And, and that's one thing that's really unique about softball, specifically because of our, our short game, our slap game, which is a little different than baseball, but, There's something for everyone.
There's, there's no predetermined idea of what you must look like, act like, or play like to succeed on a softball field. Yeah. And I think that that's such an exciting part of the sport. The, the inclusivity of that is, is, is absolutely fantastic when you were growing up. Is there a coach or a story, something that's memorable that really jumps out from your youth softball experience that you'd share?
You know, it's funny, I was, I was thinking about this the other day and um, when we started playing at eight, whatever it might have been, six, we didn't have a, a coach for our team. And so my mom and my best friend's mom, who I don't think either had ever seen a softball or anything, said, okay, we'll do it.
And you don't see mom's coach a lot. And we, we'll get into that too, I'm sure. But just there was so much power in that of watching, you know, my mom and, and my best friend's mom jump in to lead the team and of course we go undefeated and then wouldn't you know it, there's, there's a bunch of dads ready to go the next year and um, and you know, I played with the same group of kids for a long time, but I don't.
I don't think from my early years there was something memorable in a coach other than the fact that they showed up. And I think that's so important. When we talk about starting that grassroots experience, starting that experience, it's giving kids a reason, giving them example and just being there, being there for them.
It didn't matter how great the coach was. When you're coaching eight year old softball players, they're all terrible. You're not, I mean, trying to get 'em to catch and throw and hit and run something's hard. I mean, that's, I think, you know, compared to soccer where they just look like a snake running around, you know, and at least you get to, to stay active.
Organizing a softball baseball team when you're little is so hard. It has. Very little to do with the skillsets, you know, and much more to do with how you can emotionally empower kids to love what they're doing and where they are, and the feedback that you give them. Making them feel valued and accepted.
And that's what everybody's after, right? They want to be a part of something. And so I think when you drill it down for true little kid, youth, sports, that first experience, that's where the difference makers exist. How that, that that sense of belonging is so powerful and so important for them to be able, for our young athletes to be seen to, as you mentioned, to be valued.
W was it like to be coached by your mom and your best friend's? Mom? What was it? What was that? What, what was that like? Yeah, you know it, what was funny and, and you think about it now and, and I actually, you know, and unfortunately my mom passed away last month and so we spent a lot of time, some of my friends when I was home just talking about, do you remember when Keitha and Darcy took over the team?
And just laughing, right? And I remember being at practice and it would always be, okay, hit three and run on the third one. Going to the first game and one of my teammates saying, do I run on the third one? Because they didn't realize, you know, when you're supposed to run. And, but those are, those are the memories you have, you know, you have the memories of, my mom was an elementary teacher.
She was the best equipped person to, to have that job. You know, we don't, we don't teach our coaches enough about how to love kids, how to care for kids, how to help kids be at their best the way we train. Our teachers and empower our teachers to do the same. And we, we miss that piece a lot of times. And so I think that what made my mom and, and Darcy, the other coach that was with us, what made them special was just they wanted to be there.
You know, they wanted to do that and they, and they had no ego in it at all. They had no intent in it at all. It was just, Let's show up and allow these kids to have a really good time. And I grew up in a, a very, um, poor socionomic area. And for a lot of kids that was it. That was their one chance to do a lot of things.
You know, it was their one chance to get away from a home structure that was not positive. It was their chance to, you know, have some type of physical activity in their life. And, and I think that responsibility, Was important to, to my mom and, and to Darcy as, as they were taking that on, whether we realized it as we were eight year olds or not, they did, how they showed up and they cared about you.
And I think that's such a, such a power, such a powerful thing about recognizing and coaching. Coaching the little folks in front of you as opposed to recognizing that you weren't. The USA softball team and that you were, that you were eight, that you were eight year olds. You know what, and, and I just spent the last week with, you know, we were at a national convention and I spent it with, you know, coaches who have won national championships, coaches that are leading Olympic teams, and they, and they say the same thing.
The great ones get it. It doesn't stop when you're nine or 10, doesn't stop when you're 13 or 14. If you are valuing the student athlete, the person athlete, If you are showing up and helping them grow and get better, you are gonna get the best product on the field. It's, and we lose that somewhere in the middle, somewhere when you're trying to climb a ladder somewhere where you're trying to just compete and win and improve to yourself or someone else, that you are really good and the focus goes away from.
The person and into the, the strategy and the outcome. That's when we lose it. And those elite coaches, they still get it. So it's somewhere in between when we, we have this intersection that sometimes, you know, we veer the wrong way. And, and that's when I think the stigma of youth sports curse. And that's when we start losing the kids and, and really seeing.
Coaches have a negative impact on the student athletes that they surround themselves with. It, it sure sounds like your, your grassroots experience where you were, some of these fond memories that you have of your sports experience is a really positive environment, a, a development environment for you as a whole person, as a human being, seeing and being valued.
You talked a little bit about like the idea of that the organizing the sport. Or the softball in this case is not necessarily the biggest challenge, but really connecting with. Your athletes as people seeing them and valuing them for who they are. Could you tell us a little more about that? Sure. I think that anytime that a coach can realize that they're in a people business, you're not in a sport business, you're not in a fundraising business, even though you are.
Uh, you're in a people business and that's, that's who you are connecting with, and, and that's who you're working with. You know, it's, um, with all the respect in the world, you're, you're not putting a lug nut on the car and an assembly line. They, that's not your job. You know, your job is to get the most out of.
People how to get the most out of people. You help them feel valued. You help them feel appreciated. You empower them to do the things they're great at, but you can't do that if you don't know them. You know? I think probably the most influential coach I had in my time as a youth athlete was a high school basketball coach.
And the most powerful moment I had was a day in the middle of practice when pre cell phones, uh, you know, somebody came in the gym and his wife and children had been in a car accident and he had a son who, this was the time you were, um, allowed to be in the front seat with airbags before they knew how tall you should be.
And he, he had eye damage, a significant, and coach Cong Grove man, he just ran outta the gym. He didn't say anything to anybody. He was gone. And it, I think you just recognize in that moment, Where the priorities are and the life lesson that he taught all of us in the gym that day, we stayed and finished practice.
You know, that's what he'd instilled in us. You work hard, you do what you're supposed to do. But then we all went to check on him and his family, and I think that was such a moment. It had nothing to do with basketball, but it had everything to do with the kind of person. You want to be the kind of, you know, individual who is going to be able to commit to themselves, their team, but also something that's bigger, whether it's your family, your faith, anything, whatever it is that guides you.
And I think those are the examples that most athletes, when they reflect that, that's what they take away. You know, it's, it's not the win, it's not the 30 point performance. It's not hitting for the cycle, which, well, I was never gonna do anyway, triples alluded me. But you know, it's one of those things of.
If you really think about it, you know, that's where the, the powerful statements come from. That's where the inspiration comes from. It's, it's not, you know, learning the actual skillset. Yeah. The idea that our athletes are going, the sun is gonna shine on that, their athletic career for a short time of their life, but they're going to be good people and good human beings for their entire life is something that's, that I think is that, that should not be lost on any of us.
Any of us as we coach. You mentioned the challenge that novice coaches, new coaches face, right? The idea about where, when it sort of starts off and sort of they're all running around the basis and they're not really sure whether third base is left or right or those what direction, and again, in my case, what end of the bat to hold.
That was a real problem for me. So, um, I, I, the, the, you, you mentioned the idea about this idea about what some of the challenges that they face about what their pressures, even as a brand new coach, brand new mom and dad coaching softball here in West Virginia, just sort of figuring it all out. Could you, could you speak a little bit more about those, those pressures that they face?
Sure. I think most of it is the unknown. We, we get questions all the time of, you know, how do I run a practice for six-year-olds? You know, what drills do I use for eight year olds? You know, how, how should I be preparing 10 and 12 U for X, Y, or Z? And so a lot of it is, is organizational and softball and baseball are inherently difficult because they're boring.
And it's really hard for people who love the game like I do to hear that, but it is if you put yourself in your six or eight year old shoes, baseball or softball, you're waiting for your turn to bat. You are playing defense in the ball may never come to you. The whole game, especially the eight year old outfielder who hits a ball to the outfield.
You know, only if it rolls past six infielders and then you got people coming at you and the ball. So, you know, I think for a lot of times that difficult part is, is the organization and just being able to keep kids busy and engaged enough to learn the skills because that is your. Part of your responsibility as a coach, but also to really enjoy their time, you know, to get to know their teammates and to learn the beginning stages of teamwork and then also understand the game.
And for a lot of novice coaches, I think sometimes they can look past. What the kids need to learn about the game to what will bring short-term success. Like always playing your best person at the pitching position, right? Because nobody hits it past the pitcher, so I'm gonna put my best kid there all the time.
Well, guess what? No. Nobody's gonna know how many games you won and nobody's gonna know all of those things. So giving kids the chance while also recognizing my daughter doesn't look up enough to play pitcher. Like, please don't put her there. Like she, she doesn't pay attention. Right. So let somebody else play there.
But it's, I know that's so many different things and on a tangent, but I think that's the hardest part for the novice coach because that's all the different things in their mind. How do I do this? How do I do that? How do I get all these things to work together when really. If you just keep boiling it back down to, you know, what's important now, what do these kids need right now?
You know, do they, do they know where first base is? Do they know how to hold a ball? Are you even giving them the right ball to hold? How big is it? How big are their hands? I think sometimes just challenging what we think we know about the game, rule wise to say. That might be a rule, but my kids can't execute that.
My catcher's never gonna throw out a runner at second base. Well, great, let's put them in a position where they can succeed. You know, let's, let's not worry about that, or let's take out the stealing part right now, or whatever that might be. But just continuing to challenge, I. What the expectations are for the coach and the parents and the student athletes so that they can have a lot of fun and be focused on learning a little bit as they go, and a whole lot on what the ice cream shop is that they're gonna go to with their teammates and everybody else after the game.
Absolutely. My, my, my mentor you always used to say about ice cream, the ice cream shop is, you know what you should do after you win a game? Go get ice cream. You know what you should do after you lose a game? Go get some ice cream, because again, that's what that, that, that's what you should do with youth sport.
You speak about the idea about the, this piece, about the challenge, about organization and setting up a fun environment. Right. And that, that, that's a critical piece. I think about, um, you know, we can go online and get a thousand softball practices. I. We can go online and get thousands of practices in a variety of sports.
But when you talk about that coach coming and making a positive impact for those players, that new coach, the most experienced coach, what is it about that, that, how does a coach create that exciting, fun, dynamic environment as dynamic as possible? In the softball environment. Sure. I think part of it is difficult because just like any sport, your skill level is gonna be across the map, especially when they're, when they're younger.
Uh, because you have kids that have never played before and you want them there, and you have kids that play all the time in the backyard with their family members and you want them there. Uh, but softball is inherently in baseball dangerous when you have one of those kids throwing to another. Right. And so, so much of it is, is just understanding.
Skill level so that you can put those little kids in a position to succeed so that they don't feel self-conscious. They don't feel like they're not good enough. You know, I would hear that a lot from my oldest daughter. She's eight. She loves music. I think she's already given up on softball. Swimming might still have a chance, but you know, and that's okay.
But she. That's how she would feel after practice. And I know that there was no coach involved making her feel that way because I was there the whole time. But they see it, you know, kids see it, they're, they're very aware, sometimes more than we are as coaches. So finding ways to. Help those kids have success, have fun, celebrate them high five the heck out of them.
You know, in, in are really trying to have practices that are small groups, you know, that you can keep different and you're gonna need help. So not being afraid to pull a parent out of the stands, that's the easiest way. It's just like, come on, you know, you're with me right now, and whatever that might be, but, Having the ability to keep them engaged and it's hard to keep them engaged when you have one ball and a lot of people standing around.
So you gotta get creative and know that sometimes it's not gonna work. Sometimes it is you, you can always stop to play a game. You know, you can always take the breaks and, and regroup. But you know, I think mostly just understanding that. The kids don't need to be there for an extraordinary long amount of time.
You probably got an hour depending on how old they are. Yep. Right. And if you can just have a lot of fun with it so that they want to come back. If you're coaching youth sport, I always say, you are a success if all those kids wanna play again next year. That's, that's how you're, you know, you're marking your success not about if you're winning or losing, but if your kids aren't learning and they wanna play again, then you crushed it.
Yeah, and I think that that, that that idea of making sure that our practices are the appropriate length for our players and making sure that it, it, it seems like such a hard, seems like such a, an important barge as to say, are they gonna come back and play the sport again next year? Like I, I, I heard a quote at some point about somebody saying, don't be a p Your goal as a youth sport coach should be, don't be a player's last coach.
A hundred percent. That's a great goal. That's a great goal. And you know, I used to think a coach can't take the love of a sport from a student athlete. You hear that a lot. I used to love it until this coach or this coach, and the more you, you see, it's not so much the coach is directly responsible, but it's the daily environment.
You know, it's the, it's what they're walking into or what they are being subjected to. And, and for some kids that's separating them from their parent. When they're in the arena, you know, giving them a reprieve from maybe an overbearing parent or, you know, being able to identify, you know, the things that they, they really love about the sport.
Some kids are there just for the team. It's completely social for them. And you know what, that's okay too because there's some kids that, that don't do well socially. So if they get a build-in group, And they can, they can learn how to navigate conflict and they can learn how to have conversation and, and have, you know, conversations with people especially who are different than they are.
I mean, what a gift to give them an opportunity to do that over the course of time. So, you know, I think understanding there are different reasons that the kids and the families are there. And that's okay too. It doesn't have to be, you know, this is the first step to my All-American Hall of Fame career.
That's, that's generally not the way we need to be looking at it. I, I, I, I can appreciate that. As they say, no one, no one makes the Hall of Fame at nine. Yeah. Yep. It's important. You, you mentioned the idea about stopping and organizing practice in a f a fun environment and playing the game. Like every game.
Every game is a little different. Every sport is a little bit different within the context of softball. When I'm on, when I'm a coach that's out there, there's this piece about skill development and playing the game. The idea about like they have to have a certain skill, acquire certain skills, and the players wanna show up and play the game.
How does that, how does that play out? How does that show up in softball? Sure. Well, a lot of times that's difficult because you are reliant upon everyone around you to have a certain skill level to be able to execute the game as, as it's meant to be. And we see that in, in different sports. But you know when you think about.
Young kids who are just starting to pitch right, and if your pitcher can't throw strikes, then the whole game. Won't really work, but your pitcher can't learn to throw strikes without being in the game. And so we have this just sense of, of patience that we need to find a way to build in. And, and you can find leagues that do a really good job of, okay, you throw a three balls and then the coach is gonna come in and they're gonna throw a pitch so that we keep the, keep the action going.
You know, I, I've, I've always been a big proponent of it at practice, there's, there's a coach. When your, when your kids are hitting off to the side that's rolling balls after every pitch that's not struck, you know, in the time that it takes to throw the ball back to the pitcher and we'll let somebody else feel the ball and throw it to first, or just to, to increase the pace of what they're doing because it is slow.
And I think that's why different sports can really take off for younger kids and, and baseball and softball. Truly, you have to be a little bit older. To see it played well. So I think learning the skill is important because playing the game can be almost a takeaway of how much fun it is, um, because it is only one kid hitting at a time.
I think you can have more practice fun. Then you can have game fun. But game fun is a time when we learn to celebrate each other. And I think that is just important as well as we're talking to your kids and, and really learning how to support one another, how to celebrate each other, you know, how to pick somebody up, quote unquote, and all of those things are, are important.
Yeah, I think whenever I see softball on t tv, the, the wonderful teamwork that's, that's shown, that celebration I think is co totally evident. There's a quote that's out there, this idea that you talk about. Uh, that for me, it's from a, from somebody from a, the Swedish Football Association, as many as possible, as long as possible in the best environment possible.
H how does that resonate with you? I. You know, I think that if you can get as many kids involved across the entire gamut of sport and playing as many sports as possible, and staying engaged in the sporting community for as long as possible, I think that's where the difference. Makes it be very apparent of what sport can do.
I think when we get in this idea of I have to specialize early, or we get in this idea of, you know, I'm gonna have six different coaches. I've got a hitting coach, I've got a pitching coach, I've got a strength coach, I've got a, you know, I think we can, we can lose a lot. Right? It's, it doesn't, it doesn't build character.
It reveals it. Right. It was that, it was that Coach Wooden, I think that, um, So many times we can get away from recreational level sport and get right into travel in high level, and we can get away from playing with our friends because, you know, we are doing these, these tournaments that are across the country and.
I've seen that do a disservice to a lot of athletes. There are some that thrive there and I would never take that opportunity away from them. But knowing your kid, knowing your family, knowing your priorities, and letting those student athletes just continue to explore and grow and learn. I think Aspen Institutes.
Says it's, it's like a two year sampling, right? Where you, you have about two years that you sample a sport and then you know you're moving on. And I've seen that with my own kids and, and that's okay, as long as you're allowing them to continue to sample different things and try different things, put it down and come back to it.
So that's what I think of when I hear it. It's, it's a very unique idea and you can take it in a ton of different ways, I'm sure. But I'm hopeful that kids will return, especially in our post covid world, will return to a variety of activities. A variety of experiences and truly enjoy time spent with one another in a way that will shape them in whatever they choose to do next.
You, you spoke about before about the idea that to have, so sort of to begin to sort of see softball played really well. The players have to be a little older, so they're gonna typically have played for a little bit longer time. They're gonna have maybe done other sports. You mentioned before, this challenge of early selection.
Early specialization, can you speak about the idea of how sports sampling is important in softball? A hundred percent. You know, we, we had an issue several years ago, and if you're not familiar, get ready. It's, this is completely cringeworthy where we had division one coaches recruiting sixth graders. And when you think about it and just how nuts that is and the, the lengths that we as a softball community went to change some recruiting roles and try to create an environment that allowed kids to.
Feel like they had the opportunity to play, they didn't. And what we were seeing, not only the overuse injury, right? If, if you are familiar with baseball and softball, everything is forward. Everything is overhead, and so you are constantly loading your body in this. Same way over and over. And so if a student athlete can take a break and go play soccer, take a break and go play basketball, do something else, gymnastics, track and field, whatever it might be, just to continue building their athleticism, building the skills that will make them a better softball player.
Uh, but we weren't seeing it because of just the pressure, perceived pressure that if I'm not. All in on what I want to do in college or what I want to do in high school early on, then I'm gonna get passed up and. That is so detrimental physically, emotionally, mentally, just when you think about the, the 12 year old brain and body, they're not prepared to handle that.
And we were failing them as a sport, as parents, as coaches, completely failing them in in that regard. And so I think for a lot of people being able to. Try different things. Being able to even play in different positions on the same, on the same sport, you know, whether it's, Hey, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give a goalie a shot, right?
I, I don't, I don't wanna, I'm gonna try something new. Um, and they, they just feel like a lot of times they're pigeonholed. These student athletes that we would talk to about what they had to do or, or couldn't do. It was, honestly, it was, it was just very sad that we, that's where we were when you, when you took a step back and looked at it, um, with a little bit of remove from the situation.
And so I think we've made some, some strides on that. But I think that even as a society, we still have a lot of work to do there. Yeah. I think it's a place where that, that the idea that we're, we're we, we have this real perpetual rush. Hurry up and rush. Hurry up and do, hurry up and, and, and, and, and get through.
And you mentioned before the idea about the two year sampling. If you just think about in your, in our own lives, how many things we've done. If you're gonna have somebody who's gonna play softball at the high school level, that's ninth grade, they're typically 14, give or take, and they begin playing softball when they're six.
It's like eight years set. 8, 8, 9 years of playing. How many of us have done something continuously for eight or nine years? All right. My, my, my list is very short, very, very short. Um, I, I think it's a place where, what, where does that pressure, where does that pressure in softball come to specialize with position?
You mentioned your role with travel ball, number of tournaments, pressure. Where, where, where, for you, where's the genesis of all of that? It's really difficult, but I, I think so much of it, and you mentioned it earlier in, in your right, it's, it's this idea of the rush and it's, it's fear. It's fear of being left behind.
And, you know, we, we celebrate these great accomplishments when we see, you know, a student athlete ranked first in their class by x, y, Z website, and they're an eighth grader. You know, how, how can you be first in your class as an, as an eighth grader? Your class hasn't even been completely formed yet. And in softball, we have to be very aware of our barrier to entry just through cost alone.
There are so many sports that have this baseball, the same. We have a very high barrier to entry with bats and balls and facilities and the number of kids you need on a team to play. And so we, you know, and it's also. Shown that, you know, when you, you look at the number of kids that lose interest, quote unquote in the sport, and this is Aspen Institute too.
Uh, numbers go up as income goes up, your household income. And so it's, it's unique there and we have a lot of work to do and truly making our sport accessible by all. And that's something that we take very seriously and continue to work on. But, you know, I think that, The idea of if I wanna have a scholarship, I have to play for this high level team.
And if I want to go to college, I have to be seen early. So I need to be at this fall showcase. I can't play volleyball, I gotta go to this fall showcase. And then it's, I have to go to these winter camps and then softball seasons starting again, and then we're done in August. And now I get my two week break.
And you know, we don't, we don't do that once for our college kids. Once our college kids are on campus, it's, you know, an on ramp onto the weight room, throwing programs, you know, train at a certain level off ramp, take your time on ramp back to the season six, week shut down. But we don't do that for our kids.
And I think that we, we need to take a little bit more responsibility for. The health and wellbeing of those kids and find a way to drive down that fear that they're gonna get passed by. They're not gonna have the opportunity. And for a lot of people it's, it's money driven, whether it's through scholarship or whether it's through, um, you know, some of the fees that are associated with some high level travel teams.
Are astronomical. And so there's, there's that piece. There's, there's a lot, there's a lot that goes into it. And again, that's something that we may have to have you back on the podcast and unpack further cuz there is, as you say, a lot, a lot to chat about there. You spoke, you spoke about the idea about the barrier to entry with softball and your perspective from a national.
A national perspective, what are some of the things that softball's doing to, to, to help address that barrier to entry, to just get more young folks playing softball? I think the awareness piece has, has come a long way and some partnerships with some inner city urban leagues and academies that, you know, major League baseball started a while ago and softball has, has continued to increase a partnership with, but of just the idea of.
The sport is available. Natasha Watley, uh, is a tremendous ambassador for softball. She works with Major League Baseball. She was an All-American at U C L A gold medal winner, one of the best to ever play. And she tells the story when she was speaking at a high school in in Los Angeles and talking about her experience.
And afterward a kid came up and said, this sounds great, but what's softball? And she was blown away. She was blown away to this kid in the, in the most, you know, just concentrated area of softball talent in the world. Probably this, this kid didn't know what softball was and she said that, you know, she realized then how much work we really have to do.
And so I. Think we've, we've tried to help our coaches understand that anything they can do grassroots, bringing kids just onto their campus and, and helping them understand the sport, getting involved again in the community level, softball, um, and then helping these young kids see this as an option. And, and then it's gonna take more steps, more step, more steps.
But just being able to be seen, I think television has been huge for us. Um, we know we are, are growing astronomically in viewership and. That's something we're very proud of as a sport. Fun to watch. It's exciting to watch and a great relationship with E S P N and others, but, um, it's not anything that's gonna happen overnight, that's for sure.
And I think you mentioned this before, the idea about just getting more kids to dream, right? The idea about you've gotta, you've gotta see it to be it. The piece about like now seeing lots of different types of athletes playing the sport. The idea about the, the, the, the tv the TV exposure, right? Like that's, that's marvelous.
Like the women's, the Women's Softball World Series is awesome to watch. Yeah. Like it's fun. Like it's, it's a, it, it's, it's a, it's, it's entertaining. Um, and, and high level athletes and that probably feeds into that little bit of that FOMO, right? That fear of missing out. How does the coach at the grassroots level, and let's say that middle school and high school, how does the coach help offset refocus? Th that, that, that fear that comes from likely from the players themselves and potentially those folks supporting the, supporting the players. It's very difficult, especially because honestly, when you look at the, the pathway for recruitment to college, most of the time it goes through the travel ball industry.
And we have tremendous travel ball coaches. We have tremendous travel ball programs that run 'em the right way, are in it for the right reason. Uh, but it's also a body that that isn't governed. Anybody can be a travel ball team. Anybody can be a travel ball coach. You can play for any different number of groups.
We have wonderful groups that organize tournaments as well, but there's, there's never, um, really that consistent piece that comes with travel ball and I think. That's, that's part of it that makes it very difficult for a scholastic based middle school or high school coach because they aren't the only voice in the conversation.
And a lot of times they, they are a, a voice of reason and, and calming influence on these student athletes, but it's, it's not the only voice they hear. And so I think continuing to help our travel coaches understand. What that process can and should look like is important as well. And then helping our, you know, recreational coaches understand that they have a role to play as well.
Because as the first contact with sports, sometimes, you know, that's the connection to the love of the game. And sometimes that can escape kids as they get a little older and start to feel some of those pressures. You know, I was talking to a travel coach in St. Louis. Last week and she said she has a, a young lady on her team that's just, you know, power five level she's in.
And this, this woman played, um, at that level as well. So very aware. But um, and she was talking to the kid and said, you know, what do you wanna do? And she said, you know, I really wanna go to, and she said the name of a, of a very fantastic academic division school. And the travel blocker said, that's awesome.
What a great school. And started talking about what that would mean for softball. And the parents were blown away that this coach who was new to the organization would entertain that idea of going to this Division three school when this kid had been told all along, no, you're a Power Five kid. You're a Power Five kid.
But what does that even mean? You know, you said it earlier, the sun's gonna sit on their career pretty shortly. Right? You're not, you don't have a long time. We don't have this. Extended professional lifespan that some of our, you know, male counterparts have. So if there's something that is going to set you up for success professionally or personally, or, um, then I think it's our responsibility as community members, grassroots coaches, high school coaches, to really help those student athletes explore that where they're gonna thrive, not where they think they're supposed to be.
I think that gets us all in a little bit of trouble when we think we know where someone is supposed to be. And knowing where they're supposed to be, as opposed to, as you mentioned before, listening and getting to know them and saying what are their goals as people? Mm-hmm. What are their goals and aspirations not mine as the youth coach, particularly in the grassroots environment, that it's really about, uh, the athletes and the people in front of me that I'm coaching in the grassroots environment with softball.
Where do coaches go? Again, I'm totally curious. Um, and I, and I'm sorry for not knowing more. Where, where do they go? Where do, where does a softball coach in a community program. Go to find coaching education. I've been assigned to the, I'm coaching the, the, the community team at U 12, at 12 under 12 u or whatever.
Soccer does it all backwards. We do a lot of things in soccer. Funny in that way. So, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna be the coach of the youth team. Where do, where do I go to find my, my, my coaching? Where do I go to grow myself as a coach? Yeah. The greatest thing about our association is that we are an association that's built on high school travel, grassroots coaches.
Half of our membership comes from that community, and so a lot of times coaching groups are very much driven by all we're a collegiate group of coaches, or we are X, Y, or Z. But in the softball community, the greatest thing about the N F C A is that, that we're one group. You know, we were in one softball group and when you walked into our national convention last week, you know you're gonna see a 10 U coach sitting next to, you know, Patty Gasso.
And it's not uncommon. It's uncommon in other places, but you know, it's, it's not uncommon in softball. And we've been able to truly build this. Community of sharing. Um, because our sport has maintained that as a priority and we know that as we grow and more money becomes involved in the sport and more exposure becomes involved in the sport, it gets a little harder to foster that environment of sharing.
But I think most. Community level, coaches, high school, middle school, whatever they are, can call a college program, can call other coaches in their area. And they're usually gonna get to have a conversation about how do I get better? What do I do next? How do I do this? You know? And, and a lot of times it's, it's not just the how do I organize practice, it's how do I deal with parents, you know, how do I, how do I work with, you know, administrators or how do I work with, you know, when the youth league has.
Five baseball fields and they have one softball field. You know, how do we, how do we do this? And so the resources that they need aren't just four team fastball versus two team fastball. You know, the resources are broad and that's, you know, we've seen it, right? That's what drives coaches to really struggle with the profession.
It's not the student athlete. It's not the skill work, it's everything else. And so really trying to find that education that's broad-based and that's what we're so proud of to offer to our members. Um, it's important. It's important for the ability for those coaches to do their job well and then love their job and persist in their job.
And I'd love to hear the idea that, that that sense of community that, uh, that a community-based coach could call up a more experienced coach and learn, learn from her, and learn from their, their experiences, and share about what are the best practices when they get there. You did mention a fabulous word as, as we continue on in our conversation, you, you, you did interject.
We have the coach coaching the athlete. We have the diamond, we have the balls, we have the bats. But there is one other group in youth sport in creating this positive youth sport environment that, that, that does need a little bit of, uh, conversation, I think is probably the way to say it. Share, share about the idea about the concept and the importance of.
Parents and parents and, and I, and I'll sort of, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll cover it in a couple different ways, but speak about the parent as it relates the parents from your perspective as it connects to the experience and the environment for the athlete. I think. The majority of the time, if there's an issue with anything to do with the student athlete, the coach, the parents, it almost always boils down to communication and expectations.
And I think the sooner that everyone involved gets on the same page. Now what, what does the 10 year old one out of the season, what did the 10 year old's parents one out of the season? So what did the coach one out of the season? Uh, and, and being able to just strip that down as soon as possible. And talk about things that will be tolerated and things that won't, um, restoring the balance of power.
A little bit of, you know, Our parents, they don't talk about other kids. Just plain and simple. If, if you can't sit in the stands and cheer for Susie, then you just need to go somewhere else or, or not cheer at all, or whatever that might be. But it's, it's learned it, they're learned behaviors and they came from somewhere.
And so I think so often just being proactive and. And Overcommunicating, uh, what that expectation is between the parent and the coach is, is key because ultimately I think the parents want their kids to have a great experience. And you might disagree on what that looks like or what that is or how you get there, but if, if you can.
Get to it in the beginning. Set those ground rules and continue with them being consistent and, and being intentional with them. I think that's when it really allows the kids to focus on what they're doing and what they wanna do, in a way from the voice that that is right there with them the whole time.
Um, I also believe that at some point in time, Kids need to play for someone else. You know, they, they need to, to move away from playing for their own parent or even in an organization, another coach, you know, helps them or whatever that might be. It's just, it's best for everyone's growth, you know, to be able to have different experiences with, with different coaches, different types of leaders.
But, um, As difficult as parents can make it for coaches, sometimes great parents can make it easy. And so if you can create this culture of great parents and help those parents, you know, really lay out the groundwork for others, uh, it can make your job as a coach delightful. Um, which is the opposite of what most coaches think of, you know, when they hear the, the P word.
Yeah, the B word. Absolutely. You, you, you talk about this idea about creating expectations and building parents as partners in this, in, in the youth sport venture. You talk one, you, you created one expectation that I think is really powerful and I just wanted to see if we couldn't have a little bit more From your wisdom, you talk about the idea about not coaching other people's children.
That's a, that's an incredibly credible, powerful one that sort of seems obvious, but. Sometimes. Sometimes it's, sometimes, sometimes it's not. Are there any other of your like metal stand of parental expectations and behaviors that you would, that you could share? I think what we're seeing now, and I think this is across all sports, and I'm sure you see it as well, um, the expectation of the parent umpire relationship.
It has to be addressed. Coach umpire relationship, parent umpire relationship and, and what we model for the student athletes. We don't have enough officials in youth sport. And who can blame 'em? You know, they're walking into an environment where they're being harassed at work. You know, we don't tolerate it anywhere.
But it's funny on the, on the court, it's funny, on the field, and it's not, um, it, you know, very simply if you break it down. So I think, you know, the, the expectation of, of high morals, high ethics, um, and accountability, I think is, is really important. And we're all gonna fall short. We're all gonna fall short.
Somebody's gonna say something they shouldn't. Somebody's gonna look disgusted when they shouldn�t because that has been a part of our sport story for a really long time. You know, I hope we're done throwing chairs, but maybe we're not. In some areas I don't, I don't know. Uh, but for a lot of us, just continuing to make it a priority to model the behavior as a coach, and then outline it and uphold it with our parents, the way they talk to student athletes after.
Games and contests teaching your parents, you know, what should you say to them? We hear this all the time, they should say, I love watching you play. You know, so, but they don't, how do you know that, you know, we live in it. This is our world, this is our profession. But you don't, you don't know that. And so, you know, when you see a kid walk into, um, your restaurant and they've got their uniform on, do you turn to them as just a, a passerby and say, did you win?
Or do you turn to them and say, did you have a good time? You know, what are you saying to the little kid? What are you? And so I think there's just so many things that we can drill down on as educators. Cause ultimately a coach is an educator of how can we help set this entire situation up for success?
And it, it does work with the parents cuz you're trying to outdo or undo 8, 10, 12, 16 years of work, right? You're not going to, so you might as well work together because you're not gonna, you're not gonna be able to do it solo. The, the idea about working together, that collaboration, the parents as key partners is something that that resonates.
That resonates a lot. And you mentioned the idea about, tell them because they're not really sure, like the idea about what a parent should say as you, as you described the idea about saying, I just love seeing you play. Oh. Wow. You mean that, that, that question would help me with my own child? Yeah. That, that, that, that, that, that wisdom from you would absolutely help.
He help kids and parents make the car ride to the ice cream shop, by the way. Right? A little bit. A little, a little bit, a little, a little bit more rewarding. And so sometimes I think parent, the idea about, like, as you say, is it really reinforces sharing what, what those parents should do, can be, can be incredibly in, in, incredibly helpful.
And again, uh, coach, you've, you've shared so many good pieces with us again. Uh, again, I, I know that we're gonna have to schedule another, another one of these podcasts. Is there a good place where, where our audience, if they wanted to reach out to you, could, could find you on social media? Uh, On your website, and we'll put some of this of course, in the show notes, but is there a good place where they can, that they could find you?
Absolutely. All of the above. You can learn more about the NFCA where National Fast Pitch Coaches Association, so that's nfca.org. You can find my contact information on the website. It's very difficult. It's Joanna, all one word, joanna@nfca.org. So very tricky email address. Um, social media. It's Joanna e Elaine, and, uh, you can find me on across the platforms there, but I would encourage you all to connect anybody that wants to chat.
This is, this is fun, and I know, um, Peter's gonna have to cut me off because I just love to talk, talk the subjects and it's, it's so much fun. So I. Anyone who wants to reach out, whether it's softball coach or, or just a coach, um, there's no, no bigger honor than being called coach. So if you're lucky enough to be in that profession, um, find, find the people that are lucky enough with you because you can do a lot of good for a lot of people.
Awesome. I really appreciate that. So, I have one final question. Money is no object. You could place a sign or a billboard on any, on every softball field. All across the country with your best advice or quote, what would you want the message to be? Get to know the parents so you can forgive the children. I think that so often, you know, we, we are fighting a battle or think we're in a battle that we know nothing about.
So get to know the, get to know the parents, get to know the kids, get to know where they're coming from. Um, Really relate to the people that you are working with. And then watch the magic happen. But if you don't get to know 'em, uh, you won't be able to really unlock who they are. And that goes for both parts.
Awesome. Dr. Joanna Lane, thank you very much for joining us on the Timeout Podcast. And until we speak again, keep doing great things. Thank you, Peter. Appreciate it.