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Join Australia's leading comic speechmaker, Homer Papantonio, and renowned cardiologist, Dr. Ross Walker, for a podcast that blends humor and health in a way you’ve never heard before. "The Seriously Funny Wellbeing Podcast" delivers top-notch insights on wellness and well-being with a satirical twist. Get ready to laugh, learn, and live better—it's not for the faint-hearted!
Homer Papantonio (00:00.563)
G'day folks and welcome to podcast number 10 of the Seriously Funny Wellbeing Show. I'm your co -host, Homer Papantonio and with me please welcome the perpetually irrepressible and highly knowledgeable Dr Ross Walker. Ross, hope you're doing fine.
Ross Walker (00:17.065)
Hello, Homer.
I'm fine mate, ready to go.
Homer Papantonio (00:22.011)
That's good. The subject of today's podcast is dementia. What it is and how it can be prevented. But let's start off with maybe some humour, bit of homeless humour. And Ross, you'd agree that achieving a reasonable level of wellbeing has a lot to do with having money.
Ross Walker (00:42.953)
yeah, it's been shown beyond a doubt. Once you get to a certain income level, there is wellbeing that goes with it. And people who are tragically living in the lower socioeconomic groups, there's no doubt that their wellbeing is not as much as they'd like it to be.
Homer Papantonio (00:58.589)
But do you know for me it was really a tough road. The suburb of Melbourne I grew up in was very tough. You could walk ten blocks without leaving the scene of a crime. We were so poor that we went to the beach to see seagulls. They used to throw chips at us. We were so poor that my mother used to buy my clothes from the local army disposal store. It wasn't too bad if you don't mind going to school dressed like a Japanese admiral. No, it was really...
Ross Walker (01:06.958)
Very good.
Ross Walker (01:24.118)
shit.
Homer Papantonio (01:26.545)
Really tough, I only had two friends, they were both imaginary and they'd only talk to each other. And instead of a four skin I only got a three skin, it's alright, was no skin off my nose as they say. So let's move on, have you got any dad jokes to kick this off?
Ross Walker (01:30.435)
Yeah.
Mm.
Ross Walker (01:38.392)
Yep.
Ross Walker (01:43.132)
look I do because I went to the doctor the other day with some hearing problems and he said to me, you describe the symptoms? And I said, yeah, Homer's the fat guy and Marge is the one with the blue hair.
Homer Papantonio (01:47.922)
Hmm.
Homer Papantonio (01:54.099)
So medical news, let's get on to it. Diet and colorectal cancer in young people.
Ross Walker (02:06.351)
Yeah, one of the big tragedies is over the past couple of decades, the rates of colorectal cancer has increased in people under the age of 50. And for a number of years, it was said, we're not really sure why. But the studies now have shown, there's a study out of the Cleveland Clinic that looked at the diet derived molecules that you get from having too much red meat, but especially, and this is the big thing, is the processed meats.
Homer Papantonio (02:34.419)
process.
Ross Walker (02:36.203)
And so the processed meats are very clearly linked to colorectal cancer. And I've in younger people, and I really think when it comes to red meat, I don't have a problem with people having their red meat once or twice a week, maybe, and not heavily cooked. But when you char grill red meat, there are all of these chemicals that are released in the red meat that are carcinogenic. So I think
Homer Papantonio (02:58.173)
Mm
Ross Walker (03:04.643)
Really it's the processed meats and what's going on in those, what food stuffs were getting in there and what chemicals were getting in the sulfites and everything else in those processed meats and the nitrites. But it's also the char grilling of steak that really is contributing to colorectal cancer. And it's just a tragedy that we're seeing so much more in younger people.
Homer Papantonio (03:23.687)
Yeah, like sausages we classify as processed meat. Even though they say that these turkey sausages and lean meat sausages.
Ross Walker (03:27.957)
Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ross Walker (03:33.871)
Yeah, well, look, no one knows because these sort of sausages have only been around for the last 10 years since all the yuppies have come into the whole butchering trade. And so we don't know what those sausages are doing because a lot of these, this is more historic data because let me just tell you something about cancer. It takes one cancer cell nine years to become a two centimeter tumor. So when someone says, I got cancer because of this stressful event in my life, no, you didn't.
The cancer was brewing for many years before the stress, but the stress may have accelerated the generation of that cancer.
Homer Papantonio (04:11.655)
I had a friend that worked in a sausage factory, isn't a joke, and he still doesn't know what goes into a sausage. Okay, good one. Future of medicine, real -time inflammation monitoring.
Ross Walker (04:19.98)
Yeah, well, there's a bit of a snag in that argument, but anyhow.
Ross Walker (04:30.991)
Yeah, look, I thought I'd bring this one up because people hear the term inflammation thrown around all the time and they don't really know what it is. So I thought I'd just give a very, I think we probably should spend a whole podcast on this, but a very brief explanation. We were designed to wander in a jungle for 30, 40 years, have a head ripped off by a saber tooth tiger or a die some infection in our thirties and forties. And so our immune system really only evolved to deal with acute
trauma or acute inflammation from infection. But when we live beyond our use by date, which is beyond 40 and double our use by date, which is because the average age of death for a male is around 80, for a female around 84, we get exposed to so many more toxins in our life. And we also are overnourishing ourselves. And so therefore, there's a chronic immune response to all of those toxins and all of that excessive nourishment.
and that's where chronic inflammation comes in. So we've now developed ways of assessing people for inflammation. And there's a very simple test called HSCRP, which is just a blood test. But you have to go to the doctor and have a form given and you go to the pathology place, have your blood taken. It's a bit of a tedious exercise. Now this new group in Poland has developed a technique
a real time measuring technique with the chips about the size of a credit card where you can basically just pin prick the finger, put the chip on and it tells you what your inflammatory status is. Now it's still at the moment being used in hospitals and in doctor's surgeries, but there will come a time in the same way now with many watches you can get an ECG and measure your oxygen level, et cetera, et cetera. I think we're moving towards that real time monitoring. You can now put a little
little device under your skin, which can do continuous glucose monitoring. And so there's the possibility of incorporating that continuous glucose monitor with a continuous inflammatory monitor. Now, again, most people are walking around, they're feeling fine. But during winter, I've had about three respiratory infections this winter, I've just had a bad winter for respiratory infections.
Ross Walker (06:51.183)
But the HSCRP tells you how much it's affecting you. And to give you an example, the normal range is below five. That's the number we say. If your immune system is really buzzing, your HSCRP is below 1 .5. But if you've got a bit of a minor viral illness, it might be in the 10 to 20 range. But if you say have acute leukemia or myeloma or an acute autoimmune disease, it might go up to 100. I've seen some people with acute severe influenza
250. So I'm just saying it's a good way just to monitor your immune system a simple way. And I think it will move towards the hospital point of care to possibly having it on your phone or a simple thing like a continuous monitor for inflammation. Interesting stuff. No, no, no. No, sort of, sort of. Highly sensitive C reactive protein, capital C reactive protein.
Homer Papantonio (07:37.887)
So CRP stands for Creative Reactive Proton.
Homer Papantonio (07:48.475)
Yeah, That's fairly significant, isn't it? Because there's a school of thought that says virtually every disease is inflammatory. Inflammation, yeah.
Ross Walker (07:51.478)
It's made in the liver.
Ross Walker (08:01.155)
That's true. Let me make an important point for everyone listening. Every disease is genetic. Even your response to infection and trauma is basically based on what your genetic makeup is. But your genes loads the gun, the environment pulls the trigger. And so the next layer up from those genes is chronic inflammation. So you've got the genetic predisposition to that particular problem, then the chronic inflammation then pushes you in the direction of the disease.
Homer Papantonio (08:31.357)
So I'm sure if I when I say these two words most blokes would reach for their groin. Body of evidence chronic itch.
Ross Walker (08:42.447)
Well, this is bit more than just that sort of issue, which is what you're referring to. Now, it's interesting. There's a thing called fever of unknown origin, which is when you have a fever that's been there for a couple of months and no one knows what's causing it. But now there's a new term, chronic pruritus of unknown origin, CPUO.
Homer Papantonio (08:45.959)
You
Ross Walker (09:10.659)
And pruritus is the medical term for itch. So doctors made up all these silly names years ago to make them sound intelligent. So pruritus is basically itch. We're not talking about groin itch here, Homer. We're talking about a generalized itch where there's no obvious reason for it, but it's driving the poor person nuts, not what you're suggesting, driving other nuts. what they found is that in these people, when they measure
Homer Papantonio (09:30.407)
Yeah.
Ross Walker (09:38.777)
the amino acids, which are the breakdown products of protein in their bloodstream, that there are nine amino acids that have a reduced level. So they're saying that there's the potential in the future to possibly modulate amino acids, and that may improve itch. But there's a few buts here. They've also now come up with these immunotherapies, which are being used for cancer and autoimmune disease.
because a lot of people you think, it's only an itch, what's the big deal? But it can be disabling for some people. And so there's this new treatment called Abrasitinib, which targets inflammation and it's now been approved for eczema. Excuse me. I'm sorry, had to cough, I have to cut that one out. So what I do at the moment, if I've got a patient who's got a chronic itch, I use a combination of three therapies.
Firstly, what we call a standard antihistamine, everyone knows something like Telfast or the other one, Claritin. But I also use, so that's an H1 blocker, histamine one blocker. Histamine is very important in generation H. I also use an H2 blocker, which is also used for ulcers. So people would have heard about drugs like Xantax, Simetadine, they're off the market now.
But there are newer drugs, Tarzac and Nizac, which do the same thing. So I use that with an old -style antidepressant. That can take the itch away. But with these newer therapies, that'll be much more effective. Yeah.
Homer Papantonio (11:10.919)
Are we talking about skin itch? Okay, so my mum being of Greek origin, always was big advocate for vinegar and lemon juice for all itches and sure enough, don't know whether it psychostomatic, but it went away after you had a itch. You're talking about severe itches.
Ross Walker (11:24.493)
Hmm.
Ross Walker (11:36.738)
I'm talking about people's life is being driven crazy by itching. And it does happen. It's not uncommon, not uncommon.
Homer Papantonio (11:41.763)
Wow. Yeah, okay. Controversies. Teaser for... Ozembic. Is it really a miracle drug?
Ross Walker (11:53.827)
Yep, yep. Well, look, I want to talk more about Azempig because it really is the blockbuster drug of the last decade. And many people are using it. There's been a worldwide shortage because overweight people are using it because it was initially developed for diabetes and the overweight diabetics lost the bucket of weight. So they gave it to a bunch of non -diabetics and they also lost the bucket of weight. So it's really been the most successful weight loss drug ever invented. And...
Homer Papantonio (12:01.607)
Yeah.
Ross Walker (12:22.115)
We've also found there's some incredible benefits from it. And I'll talk about that in another podcast. But a recent study has just come out suggesting that there was a higher incidence of suicidal ideation and a higher instance of self harm in the people who use those epic. But another study has just come out in the last week refuting that. So this is the problem. You hear one study says one thing, another study says another thing. And there's that wonderful comment by Disraeli about
Homer Papantonio (12:26.29)
Yeah.
Ross Walker (12:51.619)
know, damn lies and statistics. and so, well, I think we should focus on this in another podcast to have a full podcast on weight loss and ozempic and what is the way forward? What are the benefits, but what are the cautions?
Homer Papantonio (13:07.845)
So the drug, it is a drug, it's not a natural supplement is it?
Ross Walker (13:12.672)
Ozempic, no, no, no, it's a thing called a GLP -1 receptor agonist and it has profound effects on many metabolic pathways in the body and I'll explain that on another podcast we'll do in a few weeks time.
Homer Papantonio (13:19.227)
Okay. Okay.
Yeah. Okay. So Ross, our main topic for this week's podcast is dementia. What it is and how can it be prevented? So just a quick introduction. As you know...
Dementia is a term used to describe a group of symptoms affecting memory, thinking and social abilities. In people who have dementia, the symptoms interfere with their daily lives. Dementia isn't one specific disease. Several diseases can cause dementia. Dementia generally involves memory loss. It's often one of the early symptoms of the condition, but having memory loss alone doesn't mean you have dementia.
Memory loss can have different causes and Alzheimer's disease is the most common cause of dementia in older adults but there are other causes of dementia depending on the cause. Some dementia symptoms might be reversible. So over to you Ross.
Ross Walker (14:28.879)
Okay, well, look, dementia is, as you say, the blanket term for those three categories, the problems with memory loss, thinking, and social behaviors. And really, dementia, once you've developed it, is traditionally not reversible. Sometimes you may get some improvements, but really it's a downhill, horrible disease. And about 60, some studies say 80 % is due to Alzheimer's disease, but I wanna put a clarification on that.
There's also a pretty common thing called vascular dementia. So vascular dementia is where people have multiple mini strokes, which destroys the brain, whereas Alzheimer's is a different thing, which I'll get to in a second. And there's less common variants of dementia. There's a dementia associated with Parkinson's disease that's often called Lewy body dementia. Frontotemporal dementia is another one, Neiman -Pick's disease. But then there are the toxic causes of dementia.
And the big one is alcohol. that old granddad died of dementia and old granddad was just a heavy drinker. So he didn't really have Alzheimer's. He just poisoned his brain with alcohol. And interestingly, there's two alcohol -related dementia syndromes. One's called Wernicke's encephalopathy, which is often associated with a thiamine deficiency as well, where they get a whole lot of visual problems and other neurologic issues.
Another one's a thing called Corsicov psychosis, where people, it's alcohol induced, but people just completely lose their short -term memory. So they can do something in a few seconds later, they've completely forgotten. But another big emerging cause of dementia, which has had a huge amount of airplay in the last 10 years.
has been chronic traumatic encephalopathy. So CTE that we're seeing a lot of athletes like Muhammad Ali's that the poster boy, the poster child for CTE, but many footballers have had issues. We saw that the coach of the North Queensland Cowboys, Paul Green, tragically took his own life. And it was said that was due to CTE. Steve Fokes, rugby league player for Canterbury. And he also played for Australia.
Ross Walker (16:43.489)
He died in his 50s from CTE and a lot of people have developed problems related to recurrent head injuries, which can lead to dementia and also illegal drugs can do it. Many, many, many other different toxic causes can can induce a dementing type illness. But the big focus is on Alzheimer's disease. And I want to just talk about that because this is a really, really important concept. I think the two major factors
in the generation of Alzheimer's disease are the microcirculation. So if you think about the big pipes coming out of the dam are the big arteries that go to your heart or to your brain, then the smaller pipes are the pipes in your street, but the tiny pipes in your house and the tap, that's the microcirculation. So if you survive your vascular years, there's a wash down effect from the bigger vessels into the smaller vessels, and you have a defective microcirculation.
So the smaller vessels get clogged because it's easy to clog them because they're tiny. So all the sludge and muck gets around there. And then here's the next thing. Every time you have a thought or an emotion, there is a waste product created in your brain. Every time anything happens in the body, there's a waste product created from that chemical reaction. And that has to be washed out of the system. So you need a very good microcirculation to flush all the crap out, so to speak.
Homer Papantonio (17:58.876)
Amazing.
Ross Walker (18:11.907)
but you also need a good immune system. And here's the other thing with Alzheimer's, the immune system in the brain is called the glial cells. And the glial cells typically come out at night and wash all the garbage out. So it's a bit like the cleaners going to the big buildings in the city to do their job when the staff have gone so they don't get in the way. It's the same thing that happens with these glial cells. When you have a rest, that's when the glial cells really rev up their work.
to flush all the crap that's going through the system and should be flushed out by good microcirculation. But you see, now here's the issue that as that's happening, as the glial cells come in and you wash all the stuff out, what's happening is you're creating these little bits of junk protein that are usually eliminated by the glial cells and the microcirculation.
And these junk proteins are called amyloid proteins and these things that go with them like tau tangles, T -A -U is the other thing. So amyloid and tau proteins sort of mix up together in this accumulated junk. Amyloid tends to be on the outside of cells, the tau tangles tend to be on the inside of cells and basically it just erodes away at all your normal nerves. So that's basically how Alzheimer's occurs but here's another big issue. We're now calling type two di...
type two diabetes or any form of diabetes, now Alzheimer's has been called type three diabetes because again, if the diabetic survived their vascular years, they have a marked increased risk for Alzheimer's as they get older. And another big thing is what we call the Apo -E Alleles. Now, why is that important? Well, as I've explained on previous podcasts, the way genetics works is you get one copy of a gene from mum,
one copy of a gene from dad. Now these particular genes called the ApoE genes are involved in cholesterol transport around the body. And we have three different types of genes. There's ApoE2, ApoE3 and ApoE4. So you're either, the normal one is 3 -3. Most of us are 3 -3, I'm 3 -3. But Chris Hemsworth has just come out recently, that wonderful actor, Australian actor who lives down in Byron Bay. And he said,
Homer Papantonio (20:33.755)
Hmm. Yeah.
Ross Walker (20:37.507)
that he's found out that he's ApoE4, which is the worst possible allele of the combination allele. So he's a heterozygote for ApoE4, which is often associated with dementia in your 50s and 60s. Whereas if you're born with one ApoE4, that's dementia in your 70s and 80s. Now that doesn't mean you're going to get it. It just means you have a higher risk of getting it.
Homer Papantonio (21:05.491)
But that's a good segue into what I've heard a few neuroscientists speak about prevention of Alzheimer's and dementia. And they're virtually saying that you've got to obviously look after your brain nutritionally, but exercise is amazing in...
creating new neural pathways, thinking differently, is all part of it, and detoxing, and also avoiding things like alcohol. Although, at the end of the day, red wine is probably the best alcohol to have, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ross Walker (21:33.071)
yeah, Yep.
Ross Walker (21:45.271)
Yeah, in low doses, in low doses, of course. But can I go back to that, just to focus on the exercise for a second? When you exercise, what are you doing? You're pumping more blood around the body. You're flushing more blood through all of your organs. Exactly what I'm talking about with the microcirculation. And the studies are showing clearly, even just taking nutrition out for a second, which I want to focus on soon. But if you take nutrition out for a second,
Homer Papantonio (21:54.354)
Yeah.
Homer Papantonio (21:58.855)
Yeah.
Yep.
Homer Papantonio (22:11.101)
Mm.
Ross Walker (22:13.519)
People who have a three to five hour a week exercise program and more is not better have a 30 % reduction in progression to dementia just by doing that. So there's a guy called Dale Bresden. Now Dale Bresden has written a book, The End of Alzheimer's Disease and he has clinics in Southern California. You know how many Californians it takes to change a light bulb? The answer is five. One to change the bulb and four to share the experience.
Homer Papantonio (22:22.536)
Yeah.
Ross Walker (22:41.647)
and how many social workers it takes to change a light bulb? 10. One to change a bulb, nine to workshop it. But how many psychiatrists it takes to change a light bulb? The answer is one, but that light bulb has to really want to change. Okay, so let's talk about Dale's program because he's done studies now, he's published studies where he has reversed Alzheimer's disease.
Homer Papantonio (22:46.653)
you
Homer Papantonio (22:52.701)
change.
Homer Papantonio (23:03.879)
Mmm.
Ross Walker (23:05.311)
And I'm not saying this works for everyone. And obviously the early you pick this up and do this, the better. And now we're even talking about blood tests. I interviewed a fellow on my radio show recently who's developed a pin prick test that can pick up the early markers of these tau proteins. You see, usually the tau proteins are intracellular in the brain causing their trouble. But now what's happening is the tests are becoming so good, you get these little molecular footprints in your bloodstream.
Homer Papantonio (23:26.759)
Mm.
Ross Walker (23:33.87)
a pinprick test that can pick up early tau proteins, some other tests that are developed, they pick up early amyloid proteins that have spilled into the bloodstream. So it's telling you that you may get be predisposed to Alzheimer's 10 or 15 years down the track. Now a lot of people say, I don't want to know about it. Well, you should want to know about it because A, we're now talking about reversal of Alzheimer's disease and the earlier you know, the better off it is. But B, we're also going to get on to, we'll finish off talking about
a vaccine for Alzheimer's disease, which I think is really, really exciting. And I'll get on to that finally when we talk about all the treatments available. So let's now...
Homer Papantonio (24:13.907)
So are you going to include like natural treatments for... Yeah, okay, okay.
Ross Walker (24:17.749)
I'm getting into all this. let's firstly focus on the components of Dale's program. There are four components. Now, component number one, and I believe the most important one is lifestyle modification. And we've spoken on a prior podcast about the five keys of being healthy. And they're absolutely vital in starting to reverse heart disease, sorry, starting to reverse Alzheimer's disease.
Homer Papantonio (24:26.193)
Okay.
Homer Papantonio (24:31.944)
Yeah.
Homer Papantonio (24:38.536)
Yeah.
Homer Papantonio (24:46.344)
Yeah.
Ross Walker (24:46.574)
And a lot of the studies are showing now, I've mentioned heart disease, a bit of a Freudian slip there, because all the risk factors for heart disease are the same risk factors for Alzheimer's disease, because it's a wash down effect from the bigger blood vessels into the microcirculation. So if you start working on your lifestyle, not when you're 65 or 70, it's still some benefit from doing it, but start doing it when you're 30 or 40, then you're going to reap the benefits later on. It's like paying insurance. You might use it now, but you may need it later on.
So don't start saying, I'll start exercising when I'm 60. Start exercising as soon as you can start exercising and keep doing it for the rest of your life. But what Dale's program is, is firstly, a sound nutritional program. So they've developed this thing called the MIND diet, where basically they've combined the very good aspects of the Mediterranean diet, the very good aspects of the DASH diet for hypertension, but there's nothing flash about these diets.
Homer Papantonio (25:24.359)
Yep.
Ross Walker (25:46.09)
It's just, it's mother's milk stuff that we talk about all the time. It's having the leafy green vegetables, two or three pieces of fruit per day, especially the blueberries, strawberries, all of those things, loaded with these things called polyphenols, which you mentioned red wine before. You get the benefit from red wine, not from the alcohol, but from the plant chemicals, the very strong polyphenols in red wine.
Homer Papantonio (25:48.381)
Yeah, I know.
Ross Walker (26:09.775)
polyphenols in dark chocolate greater than 70 % cocoa, the polyphenols in blueberries, strawberries, raspberries, all of those berries. And that's where you get the benefit. So people talk about what you shouldn't eat, but I'm saying what you should eat is the fruits and vegetables. So we should mainly have a plant -based diet. And that's what the Mediterranean diet is. That's what the DASH diet is. That's what the MIND diet is.
the MEND program by Dale Bresnan. So it's all focuses on high quality nutrition. And the problem is, Homer, let's be unsubtle here, because you and I are particularly subtle in any way. People are too fat. And the more weight people lose, the less chance they have of getting Alzheimer's disease they get out. I'm not saying thin people can't get Alzheimer's disease, because you might have a really bad ApoE4 allele or some of the other genes. But I'm saying
Homer Papantonio (26:49.415)
Mmm.
Ross Walker (27:03.446)
Keep your weight down, which is very important.
Homer Papantonio (27:05.683)
But remember the obesity paradox, Ross.
Ross Walker (27:09.11)
Yeah, now I'm not talking about people carrying a little bit of fat around their belly. I'm talking about fat people. I'm talking about major obesity, okay?
Homer Papantonio (27:12.965)
Yeah, you're talking about major.
Okay, so what's that about, what's more than the amp? Is that 20k?
Ross Walker (27:20.975)
Morbidly obese is a BMI greater than 40. Standard obese is a BMI greater than 30. noting that first grade footballers have a BMI greater than 30 because their muscle weighs heavily. So I like people to focus more on what I call relative fat mass. Very simple equation. It's not as simple as BMI. with the relative fat mass, you want to take for a male,
Homer Papantonio (27:26.429)
Okay.
Ross Walker (27:47.63)
64 minus, now this is in brackets, 20 times your height divided by your waist circumference. That is your relative fat mass for a male. That should be less than 25%. For a female, it should be 64 minus again, 20 times your height divided by your waist circumference, but you add 12 to that and women want to be less than 35%. If you're less than that, your weight's fine. Don't worry about it. So that's...
Homer Papantonio (27:55.325)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Homer Papantonio (28:12.05)
Okay.
Homer Papantonio (28:15.943)
This is, so we're gonna brush this in another podcast, but don't you think that most GPs would be reluctant to tell a patient that they're fat and they need to lose weight? Do think they have difficulty? Hey?
Ross Walker (28:16.748)
Relative fat mess.
Ross Walker (28:34.513)
I don't think so. I mean, it's just, it's not being fattest. It's just making an observation. And the point is, there's a wonderful joke about the donkey whisperer. Now, this fellow was said to be the best donkey whisperer in town, and he can fix up any ornery donkey. And this fellow took this donkey to the donkey whisperer. He said to him, look, my donkey's just doing my head in. you gotta do, I hear.
Homer Papantonio (28:44.189)
Mm.
Ross Walker (29:03.832)
You're the best donkey whisperer in town. guy says, yeah, I'm the best donkey whisperer in town. He said, can you fix up my donkey? He says, of course I can. He said, please, please fix him up. So he picks up a bit of 4B2 and goes whack over the donkey's head. And the guy says, what you doing that my donkey for? And the guy says, first you got to get their attention. so, look, again, I'm not known for my subtlety. And I will often tell people that they're carrying far too much weight. I had this conversation with a patient the other day.
Homer Papantonio (29:21.073)
It's true, it's true.
Homer Papantonio (29:27.41)
Yeah.
Ross Walker (29:33.411)
He came in and he's morbidly obese. Now he's already had aortic surgery. He's had his aorta replaced. And I said to him, and I won't say his name, but I said to him, look, you can have your aorta replaced. But I said, if you want to live more than five years, you've got to get rid of that gut. Now I said that to him. And he wasn't offended. He knew it was obvious. But I had to whack him across the head to get his attention.
Homer Papantonio (29:50.299)
Mmm, yep.
Yeah.
Homer Papantonio (29:57.565)
But doctors have difficulty being lifestyle practitioners. They're always time poor. And the quickest thing is the prescription. OK, we'll see you next week. That's it. Yeah.
Ross Walker (30:01.495)
Yep.
Ross Walker (30:09.455)
Yeah, but yeah, it might be but I spend a lot of my time talking about the 80 10 10 rule 80 % lifestyle 10 % pharmaceutical drugs if you need it 10 % supplements. So so that's diet. Now we've already mentioned exercise and exercise is in my view should be two thirds cardio, a third resistance training, three to five hours a week and that's been shown to have the beneficial effects on Alzheimer's but but again in Dale Bresden's programs.
Homer Papantonio (30:21.147)
Yeah, I can't. Yeah.
Homer Papantonio (30:30.503)
Yeah.
Ross Walker (30:39.698)
Sleep is really important because if you don't get good quality sleep, that immune system doesn't come out at nighttime and wash all the crap out of your skull. And that's really, really important to get good quality sleep. But then the obvious other things, the other two components of the five keys of being healthy, don't smoke, don't drink too much grog, don't use illegal drugs. I mean, people who think illegal drugs do anything for, it's just nonsense. These are poisons that kill you. And then finally,
Finally, manage the stresses in your life. Because if you're stressed, and also things like depression, you must get your depression treated. There's a strong link between depression and Alzheimer's disease and social connection. mean, the 80 year study from Harvard University called the Grant Study. The one key to health and happiness is to have someone else in your life who loves and cares for you, who you love and care for.
Homer Papantonio (31:10.301)
Yeah.
Ross Walker (31:34.957)
really nurture and develop your human connections with people. So that's the lifestyle component of Dale's program, but it's a lifestyle component of any sensible doctor's program. The five keys of being healthy, which I talk about all the time. So number two is the appropriate use of nutraceuticals. Now, the nutraceuticals, there's a whole host that have been shown to work in the Alzheimer's space.
Homer Papantonio (31:42.621)
Yeah.
Homer Papantonio (31:54.525)
Yeah.
Ross Walker (32:01.814)
One of the emerging things that I'll mention first is things called plasmolygens. And these plasmolygens are a form of omega -3, and omega -3 and a few other omega fatty acids as well, but have an enormous benefits in improving brain function. watch this space. That's something that maybe another podcast will focus on. I'll get an expert on plasmolygens to talk on the podcast.
Homer Papantonio (32:27.955)
Okay, just turn on Omega 3. Is it true that the brain has got the highest level of Omega 3? More than any other organ? Yep. Yep. Yep.
Ross Walker (32:37.3)
yeah, yeah, yeah. And of course, and you see the blood brain barrier is a very fatty membrane full of omega -3s and a whole lot of other things. So if you're not getting the omega -3s into those fatty membranes, the fatty membrane doesn't work properly and it's easy for toxins to cross across the brain and get into the neurons and cause their damage. So that's plasmolygens and omega -3s. There's also a drink people can drink called suvanate. And there's a couple of drinks like this.
Homer Papantonio (32:57.437)
Okay.
Ross Walker (33:05.23)
that have got a whole lot of different nutrients that does have some evidence base behind it. Now, something that we spoke about in a couple of podcasts ago is the vital importance of having a high quality fourth generation folic acid, B12, B6, a fellow called Professor David Smith from a little known university in England called Oxford. He's done these two major trials, the VITACOG trial and the Optima trial. And he showed in well over 200 people.
with early Alzheimer's disease, what we call mild cognitive impairment, which is the precursor to Alzheimer's disease. This was a randomized controlled trial going for three years, gave half of them folic acid B12, B6, the other half placebo, showed a 30 % reduction to progression to Alzheimer's in the people taking the three B vitamins. But I think the study would have been done so much better if they used the fourth generation
folic acid to bypass that MTHFR gene that we spoke about a few weeks ago. I think there's a great benefit from people taking a high quality multivitamin. Anyone listening to this, please source the fourth generation multivitamin. You can send an email in to us and we can tell you what that is. We just can't mention it publicly because the TGA will not let me as a doctor make those comments. And then we've already mentioned Omega 3, but it's really interesting that a mate of mine
Homer Papantonio (34:08.786)
care.
Ross Walker (34:35.024)
called Professor Andrew Papinkas, who works down at Swinburne University, has done an enormous amount of work to show that good quality multivitamins and omega -3 work together to improve brain function. So I think that's something that's very important. And then there's a pretty good combination of ginkgo biloba, Brahmi, and a thing called phosphatidylserine that's also been shown.
Homer Papantonio (34:48.243)
Yep.
Ross Walker (34:59.182)
And some work, and I know Dale Breslin is pretty keen on this, is curcumin, which is the very good anti -inflammatory, because there's said to be a strong basis, as you so rightly mentioned before, Homer, of inflammation and Alzheimer's disease. So that's the second component, is nutraceuticals. Now the third component is brain training. And studies have shown in people over the age of 70, there are five components.
Homer Papantonio (35:04.947)
Great.
Homer Papantonio (35:14.376)
Yeah.
Ross Walker (35:27.823)
to maintain brain sharpness. Number one is keep working. Or if you retire, at least maintain your interest in your profession. So I'll give you an example. I have an 86 year old physician who wants to maintain his registration, but he doesn't want to work as a doctor. He just wants to maintain his registration. He was one of my senior consultants when I was a junior registrar. I've known him for 41 years.
Homer Papantonio (35:34.013)
Yes.
Ross Walker (35:57.582)
He still comes to my practice a couple of times a week and sits in for a few hours just to sit there and listen to what I say to people. And it maintains his registration because of that. this man, you'd look at him and you'd think, you're not 86, he's still skis, he's still rock fisherman, he's a rock fisherman, and he's an intelligent, engaging man, because he's maintaining that interest in what he's doing. So.
Homer Papantonio (36:03.731)
Yeah.
Homer Papantonio (36:13.447)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Homer Papantonio (36:21.799)
This is what I speak about a lot, is having a sense of purpose in life as you get older, and not retire, but refire in life. A lot of people, you the old addicts, a lot of people die at...
80 but don't get buried until they're 50 or the other way around. They die at 50 and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true. And you've got to have this sense of purpose to your life and have a real, ideally a passion for what you do.
Ross Walker (36:41.521)
Yeah, die at 50, they don't get buried until they're 80, yeah.
Ross Walker (36:52.238)
Yep. Well, my hobby, my interest outside of medicine is nuclear physics. Now I'm not a nuclear physics genius at all. My knowledge of nuclear physics, if you look at the whole thing, if you say 100%, my knowledge would be 1%. But I still understand it to some extent. And there's a guy called Roger Penrose, who's won the Nobel Prize in nuclear physics. I was listening to an interview he was giving the other day. And he said, and when I write my next book, he's 93, for goodness sake.
And I just love that. As you say, you've got to have a passion. I tell this wonderful story about a guy called Luigi, who I saw years ago. And he came in to see me, waltzed in, sat down, and I looked at his date of birth and it said he was 92. And I said, Luigi, you've written your date of birth down incorrectly. He said, no, doctor, I'm a 92. And I said, Luigi, what's your secret? And he said, doctor, you've got to have a passion. I said, what's your passion, Luigi? He said, growing orchids.
And Luigi went on to tell me how he'd won 13 world gold medals for his orchids and about 2000 awards over the years. And anyhow, I said, I checked him out, his heart was great. I said, Luigi, you're fine, you don't need to come back. Anyhow, he came back a year later, see me. I said, Luigi, you've come back. He says, yeah, I like you, doctor. And he sat down and he said, said, said, Luigi, no, I said to him, Luigi, you don't know how many people I've told about your 13 world gold medals.
Homer Papantonio (37:51.761)
Yes.
Homer Papantonio (38:00.37)
Yeah.
Ross Walker (38:19.662)
You're 2000 awards for your organs. says, doctor 14. Yes. So he was unbelievable. So, so number one, keep working, maintain your interest in your profession. Number two, number two is to be open to change because as people get older, they tend to do the same things with the same people in the same way and nothing ever changes. So I say to people, do things differently. There's a
Homer Papantonio (38:23.709)
Yes. See how sharp he was too.
Ross Walker (38:48.384)
One of the great minds of last century was Edward de Bono, the lateral thinking man. And he talks about watering a hill. But if you've got a fixed tap on that hill, it's only going to water the bit where the water dribbles down. You've got to water the whole hill. So do different things with different people in different ways. So for example, people who are bilingual have much less dementia than people who speak one language. Now, I'm porcelain, I struggle with English, but my brother speaks eight languages, four of them dead.
So I'm just saying that's a wonderful thing to do. then number three is be open to change. Sorry, no, number two is open to change. Number three is use it or lose it. So do challenging things, read interesting books, watch interesting documentaries, do courses, do Sudokus, do crosswords. All of those things are incredibly good for your brain. And then the...
Homer Papantonio (39:29.767)
Mmm.
Homer Papantonio (39:41.843)
Because your brain's like a muscle, you know, and even different thinking differently. I remember this neuroscientist being at this conference and she said, if you want to have a really good exercise to reverse dementia, Alzheimer's, the whole lot of it, whistle old songs to yourself. Either whistle old songs that you haven't heard for a while or try and...
pick a song that you really loved in the 70s and 80s and just sing it to yourself. And I do that when I'm walking the dogs all the time. And also the fact that I speak three or four languages, that might give me immunity for this ailment. Yep. Okay, yep.
Ross Walker (40:21.806)
Yep, very good for you. So you keep it up. So that's number three, okay? Number four is to hang around with optimistic people. So you see, you find that as people get older, all they wanna do is talk about their illnesses. I mean, we'll go for dinner with some people I don't know that well on a Saturday night and they go, doctor, you'll be interested in this. I'll say, no, I won't. That's a consultation. Make an appointment with me on Monday. I don't wanna talk about medicine on a Saturday night.
Homer Papantonio (40:31.314)
Yes.
Homer Papantonio (40:47.879)
Yeah, I know.
Ross Walker (40:50.871)
And so again, don't focus on stuff that's negative, focus on positive things, hang around with positive people that want to be positive. And then finally, the most important thing is to be positive yourself. I mean, people come into my practice, how are you going to do? Well, I'm not dead. gee. I mean, seriously, I'm still alive.
Homer Papantonio (41:04.615)
Yeah, yeah.
Homer Papantonio (41:09.361)
Yeah I know. it takes training to do that. I'll mention my father -in -law, my late father -in -law. He's a lovely guy, like Slim Dusty. He's country and western singer, he's a painter, lovely guy. But his name was Dougie and if you asked him how he was, he'd say you can't win if you're always losing.
Ross Walker (41:34.037)
Yeah, well, he's right.
Homer Papantonio (41:34.483)
And then the other thing he'd say is, I've never seen things get that bad that they couldn't get worse. there's people that are, he wasn't like this, I mean he was a pleasant guy, but there are psychic vampires out there that suck out all the positive energy in you. And you've got to make a conscious decision as you were inferring to hang around positive people.
Ross Walker (41:41.687)
Okay
Ross Walker (41:52.472)
Yeah.
Homer Papantonio (42:02.213)
that enrich your life somehow.
Ross Walker (42:04.238)
So the point I'm making from all this is the third component of Dale Bresden's programs is to keep the little gray cells working. And I've just given the five keys of doing that. The final component is a really interesting one, which is direct cranial stimulation, which is a little pad that goes outside the brain. It's completely painless, sends electromagnetic impulses into the brain as well. And he's, as I said, he's shown reversal of Alzheimer's disease. And the problem is, Homer, that in Australia at the moment,
Homer Papantonio (42:09.915)
Yeah.
Ross Walker (42:34.991)
It's estimated around 420 ,000 people are suffering some form of dementia. It's estimated that around a million people are in some way engaged in the management of those people, either professionally or personally. So that means 1 million, 1 .5 million people either have dementia or are involved in the management of dementia out of 25 million people. It's a very common condition. It's the commonest cause of death in women.
Homer Papantonio (43:01.683)
Okay
Ross Walker (43:04.206)
It's really a serious issue that needs good long -term management. And I don't think at the moment we're getting there. So let's now talk about the final component. And the final component is drug therapy. So for the last 20 years, we've had these things called anti -colonesterase inhibitors, sorry, colonesterase inhibitors, these drugs that have been used, and I think they're pretty ineffective. They might do a little bit, but not much.
And then over the past few years, there's been these monoclonal antibodies, which are injections or infusions that have come through. And they've shown a slight reduction, like a 25 % reduction in progression to symptoms. Not as good as, mind you, Professor David Smith's stuff with the multivitamins. But about 30 to 40 % of people who get these monoclonal antibodies get brain swelling. So that's a bit of a concern in itself.
But just recently, some companies are coming out now with some vaccines against the amyloid and tau proteins with some really good responses in experimental animals. So they're starting to start the human trials and they're suggesting that by 2030, these things may be standard of care. And the way that the trials are going, they give four or five injections in the first year, then maintenance injections thereafter. So when...
Someone says, I don't want to know about my risk for Alzheimer's disease. What I'm saying is yes, you do. Because at the moment, the treatment mightn't be that good. Although I think the programs are terrific if you want to get yourself involved in the programs. And there are practitioners in Australia who all they do is these programs. So they are available in Australia. So if anyone wants to know, I can put them onto some people who are involved in these programs. But what I'm saying is you do want to know
Homer Papantonio (44:51.453)
Yeah.
Ross Walker (45:00.386)
because there is something you can do about it. And in fact, I believe most chronic illnesses are reversible if you get them early and you do something about it.
Homer Papantonio (45:10.043)
So go for a casual stroll through an aged care home. I'd like to know what the statistics of dementia and Alzheimer's is in that. It would be...
Ross Walker (45:21.07)
I can tell you, I can tell you. From 65, you've got a 10 % chance of getting some degree of dementia, cognitive impairment, et cetera. Once you hit 85, it's getting to about 30, 40%.
Homer Papantonio (45:24.913)
Yeah.
Homer Papantonio (45:28.956)
Yeah.
Homer Papantonio (45:33.947)
Okay, so go for a casual stroll through a blue tone.
Ross Walker (45:38.626)
Yep. Yep. Well.
Homer Papantonio (45:40.02)
You wouldn't you wouldn't find too many how many in the blue zone so
Ross Walker (45:43.519)
No, many at all. But you see, that's the point. People say, it's inevitable if you get Alzheimer's, there's nothing you do about it. And if you're going to get it, you're going to get it. But how come we don't see that so much in the Blue Zones? the reason being is because they've lived the proper lifestyle principles all of their life. They've never heard of damn Lipitor to lower their cholesterol. They've never heard of gyms. They basically just live these wonderful natural lives.
Homer Papantonio (45:55.047)
Yeah.
Homer Papantonio (46:01.531)
Yeah. No.
Homer Papantonio (46:09.253)
Okay, so we've got some que... we've done on that, that's really interesting subject and I think we'll get a fair few emails in from that one, from our listeners. This is a question, this is Reg from Orange.
Ross Walker (46:13.56)
Yep, yep, yep, yep.
Homer Papantonio (46:24.123)
I will soon need a hip replacement. I'm in my early 70s. I read an article recently explaining the benefits of a porcelain hip joint instead of a titanium replacement joint. Do you have any opinions as to which one would have a better for older patients? And I'm aware that you've had a knee replacement. Yep.
Ross Walker (46:46.607)
Yeah, I've had a titanium knee replacement. Look, I haven't seen any studies to show that there's any benefits of a porcelain hip over a titanium hip. I think it's best to have the one that has the long -term evidence base personally, because often you find with these newer hips that are allegedly better, then something happens five, 10 years down the track when you've got the thing in. whereas I've had people who've had hip replacements 15, 20 years away and they're still doing fine.
I would just go with whatever your orthopaedic surgeon who you're seeing is suggesting.
Homer Papantonio (47:22.461)
Monty from Devonport. Thin tazzy isn't it? It's not the end of the earth but you can see it from there. Same post -codes. Okay. My mum was a firm advocate of the adage an apple a day keeps the doctor away. Is this just an old wives tale? Or is Ross, is there some scientific truth behind this saying?
Ross Walker (47:27.146)
It is in Tasmania, no doubt, no doubt.
Yep, that's it.
Ross Walker (47:39.381)
One would hope not.
Ross Walker (47:48.342)
Yeah, look, there is to some extent because apples are incredibly good for you. There's so many different natural chemicals in apples that are so protective. But I really think it should be two or three pieces of fruit per day, three to five servings of vegetables per day keeps the doctor away, not just an apple a day.
Homer Papantonio (48:00.712)
Yeah.
Homer Papantonio (48:05.435)
Okay, we've got another two. Lorna from Lightning Reach is where? Where's Lightning Reach? Northern Territory?
Ross Walker (48:13.642)
Lightning Ridge, I know, no, I don't think so. No, I think Lightning Ridge is in Queensland, but I'm not entirely sure. And I would happy to stand corrected on that one. I know it's somewhere near the New South Wales Queensland border, I think.
Homer Papantonio (48:18.675)
Queensland, okay, inland.
Homer Papantonio (48:28.197)
or mount eyes away? No, okay. I'm travelling to the Gold Coast theme parks with my grandchildren this school holidays and take a regular pill to help regulate my blood pressure. Is it dangerous for me to travel on a roller coaster, for example, or should I stick to the Dodgeham cars?
Ross Walker (48:48.302)
Can I just tell you that one of my dear mates is the owner of all the theme parks in the Gold Coast. So, look, let me say to you, there's something you can't measure in your bloodstream, it's called pleasure. And if you've got a bit of blood pressure and you're on a blood pressure pill, it's not gonna hurt at all if you enjoy it. If they terrify you, don't go near the damn things. So I think we go to theme parks, aid it for our grandchildren's sake and have a bit of fun.
Homer Papantonio (48:51.907)
Is that okay?
Homer Papantonio (49:00.486)
Yeah, yeah.
Homer Papantonio (49:09.543)
Yeah, yeah.
Ross Walker (49:17.066)
So go and have a bit of fun and I wouldn't be too worried about it. But if you've had choreography, bypass grafting and some of the graphs are blocking up, don't go on a roller coaster.
Homer Papantonio (49:17.425)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Homer Papantonio (49:24.467)
Yeah, I learnt that when I did phys ed, the recreation of always that thin line between risk and fun.
Ross Walker (49:32.268)
Yeah, and you've got and look, I say this to my patients all the time. You can't measure pleasure in the bloodstream. You got to have bit of fun.
Homer Papantonio (49:39.631)
Okay, Martin from Port Macquarie which is in New South Wales on the coast.
Ross Walker (49:44.16)
It certainly is. It's just below, it's an hour and a half below Coffs Harbour.
Homer Papantonio (49:47.571)
Like many other people, I have sporadic bouts of lower back pain. After being on my feet for too long or spending too many hours in the garden, I'm 40 years old and have never sought any treatment. I'm considering going to a professional. But should I see a chiropractor, physio or an osteopath? I'm a big fan of osteopaths because they massage first and they give you a nice little manipulation. In America, they're known as doctors, aren't they?
not here, they're not, I don't know, I know chiropractors I think that get into you they do a quick little thing and then out the door and physios I think are okay I mean you probably go for physios would you?
Ross Walker (50:18.168)
Hmm?
Ross Walker (50:32.173)
No, look, I'd probably go for whatever works best for that person. I don't want to start the war with the chiropractor versus the osteopath versus the physio. I think they're all useful in their own way. I've had manipulation my back and I've got to say it terrified me. I didn't like it at all, but other people love it. I've been to an osteopath, I've been to a physio and I had very good service from both. I think my answer is pretty straightforward. We're all different. Whatever works for you.
by all means explore it and see what, because there's many ways to skin a cat. Let me also say, I don't know anyone over the age of 60 who doesn't have a crappy neck and a crappy back, it's a medical term, but we all do to some extent because we're not supposed to be here. But in your 40s, it's an issue that does need to be managed. And I say to all my patients that it's not only important to have a practitioner who might give you some treatment like massage, like mobilization.
and I prefer mobilization over manipulation. But it's also important to have a regular back exercise program. So every day, because of my crappy neck and crappy back from too much sport, I do weights and stretching every morning for about 15, 20 minutes. It's a routine I do. And if I don't do it, my back gets in a bad way. Now also, I have a fellow who comes to my practice every week and he's become one of my very dear friends.
And he gives me a treatment called Med -Key. Now Med -Key is a handheld electromagnetic device that is much better than a TENS machine. And this stuff sends electromagnetic pulses into the area it says where the problem is and delivers the pulses where the problem is. So it's diagnostic and therapeutic. And sometimes...
Homer Papantonio (52:18.579)
Can you feel it like a tins machine? Okay, okay.
Ross Walker (52:21.519)
You can feel it, but it's very pleasant. And at the end of it, because he's also balancing the parasympathetic nervous system, which is the rest and rejuvenation system. So at the end of it, you feel a pleasant, slightly drugged feeling because he's released all of these wonderful endorphins. So it's a really lovely treatment. It's called Med -Key, -E -D -K -E -Y. You can Google it. He's the master practitioner in Australia. He teaches people around Australia how to do this technique.
Homer Papantonio (52:41.072)
Okay.
Ross Walker (52:49.152)
And sometimes the bastard goes on holidays and I get sciatica when he does. But it's maintenance therapy, it doesn't cure anything. But I don't want to have back surgery. Now back surgery is effective for some people. And my back would go probably every two or three months and then Chris just fixes it up with the med key therapy. I had to have an injection into my lumbar spine just towards the end of December. It was highly effective.
So what I'm saying is that many different treatments available, the most important point I'd make here to Rob is not to suffer in silence because there's something that can be done. Find out who works best for you, massage therapist, osteopath, physiotherapist, chiropractor, whatever works for you is fine because there are many ways to skin that cat.
Homer Papantonio (53:39.545)
Okay so Ross just on that, I spoke at the Australian Spinal Conference and they said the two best exercises for the spine are walking and swimming. Not running and obviously cycling there's all the pretty complications from falling off and blah blah blah but not only if you're doing it stationary you'd have to be big cluts to fall off a stationary bike.
Ross Walker (53:51.97)
Yep. Yep.
Ross Walker (54:06.316)
Yep, mine's just sitting there, yep. Never fallen off at once.
Homer Papantonio (54:09.489)
We'll take a photo of that. Okay. So we'll finish this podcast with a few dad jokes. I've got two. Don't drink drive. It's a dishwashing detergent. And not many people know that Yoko Ono changed her name after John Lennon died to Honor Ono.
Ross Walker (54:19.107)
Yep.
Ross Walker (54:35.273)
gee. Well, I could finish off with two slightly better than those. Firstly, this naked man is standing next to an elephant and the elephant says, how on earth can you breathe through that? And Homer, I'm so excited about the amateur autopsy club I've just joined. Tuesday's open mic night.
Homer Papantonio (54:58.003)
So on that it's goodbye for podcast number 10. If you want more information please go to Seriously Funny Wellbeing. Ross and I are also available to speak at UNIX conference special event or product launch and we'll see you at the next podcast. Ciao. Ciao.