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Interviewing indie founders about their journey and their products. itslaunchday.com
Dagobert Renouf (00:01)
Hey Daniel, welcome to lunch day.
Daniel Zuleta (00:04)
Hi, Dago. Really nice to meet you. I'm happy to be here.
Dagobert Renouf (00:08)
Yeah, I'm glad to have you and we almost didn't have you because if I remember like, you you submitted your product and I wasn't sure, ⁓ is it gonna be the right audience? Can I bring, you know, is it gonna bring you sales? But you said, no, you know, it's cool and you wanna try it anyway, so.
Daniel Zuleta (00:31)
Yeah, I think my product is more B2B focused as you said on the email but I still think I have a good audience I don't mind really if I get sales but I will think it will count as a conversion if I get signups So for me the goal is signups at this stage, not sales
Dagobert Renouf (00:52)
Awesome.
Okay. So we're going to look into that in a bit. ⁓ So where are you from? Because I hear an accent.
Daniel Zuleta (01:03)
Yeah, I'm from Chile, South America, and our main language here is Spanish. So, I hope my English is fine.
Dagobert Renouf (01:08)
I see, I see.
No, no, no, it's completely fine. And so how did you become an indie maker? What's your journey?
Daniel Zuleta (01:19)
Well, my journey started like 12 years ago, it's a long time, and I actually started doing an app ⁓ before the pandemic to scan QR codes.
for restaurants, so you could actually scan it, open the menu, ⁓ order something, pay from the app So it was really an interesting project. actually hired like two freelancers that went into my home like all this
Dagobert Renouf (01:46)
⁓ wait, okay, that sounds interesting. wait, so you
did that before the pandemic, but that was a good move because it became super important after because, you know.
Daniel Zuleta (01:54)
Yeah.
Yeah,
but I quit. I had savings for like nine months and I noticed between building, marketing and getting to break even I was gonna run broke before that. So I actually stopped developing, I leave it there and now there are huge successful business doing that. well, it was a tough call and I started doing consultancy to survive.
Dagobert Renouf (02:01)
But... Yeah. Yeah.
And yeah, OK.
But like, when did you hire these two freelancers? Like they and they lived in your home. What was that?
Daniel Zuleta (02:33)
Yeah, yeah, I wanna start it. Like you notice when you're like studying in college and you need to go to work to do some like on field training I hired two guys that were just out of college. I didn't have enough money. So I hired them and then went to my home. ⁓ Sorry.
Dagobert Renouf (02:49)
In turns, kind of, yeah.
Like did
they live there or this was just like your home office during the day?
Daniel Zuleta (03:00)
It was like a home office in my house and they live ⁓ No, they live elsewhere, yeah But yeah, that was the start and I really enjoyed coding but I couldn't do it that much so I went
Dagobert Renouf (03:05)
they lived elsewhere.
Okay, okay, okay.
Daniel Zuleta (03:21)
I built a business, a consultancy where we start selling projects, then we start doing services. Now I have a company about ⁓ IT monitoring. We're expert in the field of IT monitoring. So we're partnered with big brands.
Dagobert Renouf (03:28)
So about what?
⁓
Like for example,
like what do you like exactly like what the main service like what does it do? ⁓
Daniel Zuleta (03:46)
Infrastructure monitoring, all your hosts, BPS, networking. We do applications monitoring. We're partners of Dynatrace, example. So you can install Dynatrace, it's like Datadog, New Relic. There's a few big brands over there where you can advance monitor. We do synthetic monitoring. That means we can have a virtual user crawling your website
Dagobert Renouf (03:58)
I see.
year advanced.
Daniel Zuleta (04:16)
and checking everything your real users do that is Santatec monitoring? No, instead of hiring up people we build a robot that simulates a real person and is working on your website all the time so if something happened or crashed you're the first one to know before your real user try to use it
Dagobert Renouf (04:20)
like a real person that you hire.
That's awesome, I never heard of that. But I guess it makes sense, makes a lot of sense. I never worked at this scale where people would pay for that, but that sounds awesome. Okay, so you build that for a few years, consultancy, and setting that up for people.
Daniel Zuleta (04:50)
Yeah.
Yeah, and well, now the company has like 12 years and I migrate from being a good technical guy to a manager. So, as I told you, I now kind of manage people. I am the CEO of a company of 33 people ⁓ and I miss doing the job. So...
I started working again coding on December 2024 this year on this product.
Dagobert Renouf (05:30)
Okay, wow, so that's exciting
for you. You're like back to your first love.
Daniel Zuleta (05:35)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't know I miss it that much. I'm actually staying up, wake up light, because it's like having two jobs. I still need to be the manager, the CEO of the company, but I'm building this product at the same time.
Dagobert Renouf (05:48)
Yeah, so like you have your own,
like you have your startup and a side project. You have your side project on your side project, kind of. ⁓ That's interesting. And how does it feel for you to, because you know, I had stopped coding for a couple years and when I started again, around the same time actually in December, when I started working on launch day, ⁓
Daniel Zuleta (05:58)
Yeah, exactly.
Dagobert Renouf (06:17)
The fact that there's AI now, it changed everything for me and I got super excited and now I really just use AI and I started using it in December and I have my workflows, but it's completely different. Did you code like this or do you code like more like old school, like since coming back to coding?
Daniel Zuleta (06:34)
Yeah, I code with Cursor. To be honest, I wouldn't have like, dared to start this project without AI. I actually just took the courage to do it because since I have AI, can, I think I can build it fast enough to get somewhere. Before, it would be taking too much time and I didn't have that much time. So AI has been a game changer.
Dagobert Renouf (06:52)
Yeah.
You ⁓
same for me to be honest. think without AI I wouldn't build anything anymore because I coded for so long and then I stopped and now it's less fun you know because you know once you've been a developer for enough time you know it's not just about having time it's also
You know, we've done it. know, we've, you know, once you've done lots of apps, you know, doing another one, it's not that exciting. But with AI, you can like focus more on the business, on the design, on the marketing, on like the vision. And you still like, you're still the manager that you said you are. You're like manager of the AI now. And it's a different kind of job. But it's kind of like, yeah, it made me fall in love with coding again, to be honest. Yeah.
Daniel Zuleta (07:47)
Yeah, and for example, I think I'm good at backend, but I'm awful, awful, awful at frontend. So all my products were good like in the technical part, but not really user friendly. And AI actually is pretty good ⁓ at design. So now I think I can actually build decent products with AI that I couldn't do it alone. I would need a designer, a frontend.
Dagobert Renouf (08:16)
So how is the AI handling, because I'm a designer, so I do it more myself, but like how is AI helping you with that? Because I'm actually curious, because maybe I will build a product for that.
Daniel Zuleta (08:30)
Well, I'm using Cloud 3.5 and sometimes Cloud 4. could ask him to mimic another website or interface that I like. He does it really well. And once you have built your scheme, I actually add another pages of my site and I ask the AI to mimic that page and keep the same style.
Dagobert Renouf (08:39)
Yeah.
Daniel Zuleta (09:00)
you
Dagobert Renouf (09:01)
So you
first start by mimicking the style of something you find online and then you show it like something you did yourself of your own website and you ask it to turn it into this other style. Like basically you do the layout or something or the structure, the wireframe of the thing and then you style it using the AI mimicking thing, some kind of.
Daniel Zuleta (09:15)
keep it. Yeah, it's like you want to automate a tweet.
I actually noticed ⁓ once you do this first website, it keeps on that frame. So the first website it gives you, it setups what it's going to do after. So I actually tried to aim it to do it right at the first, because it won't change it that much after.
Dagobert Renouf (09:35)
Yes?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see. I need to try that, because it's funny. The more, I don't know how it is for you, like, the more you feel like an expert at something, the harder it is to let AI do it. And me, I feel like I'm an expert at design, so I never let AI do it. But backend, for example, I'm not an expert of backend, I don't really give a shit, so I let AI do it. How is it for you that the reverse? How is it with backend? Do you feel like...
Daniel Zuleta (10:17)
⁓ Backwards. It's backwards.
Dagobert Renouf (10:23)
Do you feel also that, like you're not letting the AI do the backend fully because you're a bit controlling?
Daniel Zuleta (10:31)
Yeah, yeah, I let it do it, but ⁓ I make more suggestions and I fix it. So I'm like a more manager there. I tell him exactly what he needs to do. Like he was a junior and I am the expert. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, I don't do short prompts. I try to do very detailed prompts.
Dagobert Renouf (10:48)
And you have experience with managing actually, so that makes sense.
Yeah.
Daniel Zuleta (10:58)
because
I know exactly what it I need and in the front end like you said I don't know how to manage so I leave it running I don't know how if it's good or bad if it works it's but yeah I had the same same feeling as you same feeling but with backend
Dagobert Renouf (11:04)
short pumps.
That's interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear you.
Yeah, I see.
Yeah.
So how did you have the idea for your product that you're going to show?
Daniel Zuleta (11:30)
It's very funny. I actually want to share a screen if you don't mind
Dagobert Renouf (11:34)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Daniel Zuleta (11:42)
Alright, well I have always think that culture of our organization, well I like doing analogies
So for organization culture you need to talk about sports and for organization strategy you need to talk about military. So in 2023, it's like two years ago, I made a presentation for the team and I kind of built this Dungeons and Dragons setup to try to play
Dagobert Renouf (12:16)
So wait, you mean
for your business where you have employees, you made this presentation to inspire people?
Daniel Zuleta (12:20)
for my business. Yeah.
Yeah,
exactly. So well, I kind of tried to make an analogy that business today are like empires of the old days. And if we were a business before, like empires offer protections to the other towns, right? People used to pay taxes to get protection.
Dagobert Renouf (12:52)
We still do.
Daniel Zuleta (12:54)
Yeah, you're right. We still do. We don't get that much protection, but we still pay.
Dagobert Renouf (13:00)
Yeah, no, we can kind
of get protection, know, the police and like, because I studied it a little bit and that's how it is, you know, the first government and political thing is like this. It's just like you pay for protection from police and then you have army and then you have your country and everything. Anyway.
Daniel Zuleta (13:07)
Yeah.
Totally right. But I guess there's no competition in a country because you only can pay taxes to one. And here, if it was a service that you provide protection, there could be another ⁓ company offering the same service. So you need to fight so they can hire you.
Dagobert Renouf (13:27)
Yeah.
Daniel Zuleta (13:43)
But you have the same problems. You can't protect too much people if the ones you already hire you are not with a good service or getting slaughtered.
you can protect the towns with people or with tools so I made like a presentation explaining how we can approach and do different things and actually there's a problem that after a while if the town feels safe and there's no longer monsters around
maybe the governor feels that he doesn't need your service anymore because he doesn't see monsters so even if you do it really good you still need to talk to your customers and be aware and tell them all the benefits you're providing to them or they're gonna feel so safe that they don't see the value or what happens if they lose your service
Dagobert Renouf (14:42)
That's true. Yeah, interesting.
Daniel Zuleta (14:45)
Alright, so I kind of end up with this feature where we have our company here and all our customers around with all the statistics of how they're feeling, how much effort it takes, how much they're paying and I always felt like love this map that
People made strategies with their team by talking through a map. Because if you as a leader have everything in your head, it's harder for the rest to follow, right? The rest of your team. Yeah. Yeah. So well, it started as a PPT, but now...
Dagobert Renouf (15:25)
rest of your team. They don't have the high level vision that you have and they don't have the context that you have.
Daniel Zuleta (15:44)
Now I build it.
Dagobert Renouf (15:45)
That's your website, this 3D thing is your website.
Daniel Zuleta (15:48)
Yeah, this 3D thing is the app and this is my main company. So this is actually my company with my customers and
Dagobert Renouf (15:51)
Okay.
Okay.
can you hide the window where I see myself because it's going to get recorded. You can close it. You can. Yeah.
Daniel Zuleta (16:04)
Perfect. Alright, there it is. So, well, this is my company with my customers and I can see all the stats here.
Dagobert Renouf (16:16)
Like what for example?
Daniel Zuleta (16:18)
example how many employees I have right now I'm building
Dagobert Renouf (16:23)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Zuleta (16:27)
I have different categories but you can put all your metrics here I'm building North Star metric to see how much value I provide to each customer ⁓ Here I have how much they're paying each one, separated by business life because I sell different things so each one of these provide different values of income how much hours my team is spending on each customer
Dagobert Renouf (16:42)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Zuleta (16:57)
So I can put one here for example and track the times.
Dagobert Renouf (16:57)
Okay.
So what we were seeing before is aggregated everything. And now when you click on one of the hexagons, I guess, you get, ⁓ you get the, okay, okay. And what's this green thing? Cause most of these hexagons are brown and what's this green one?
Daniel Zuleta (17:10)
Yeah.
Yeah, the detail.
This green gown is because I put a hit mark by the income. So this is a new customer here. So I'm putting this setup that showed me what customers are growing. So for example, in June, we got two new customers. These are the green gowns.
Dagobert Renouf (17:31)
Mmm.
Daniel Zuleta (17:48)
July we got new one new customer or that upsells is paying more So here I have a setup like for growth. I can have a setup for effort. So right now Here I can see how much time we're spending on each customer and it is going up or down and you can change the parameters
Dagobert Renouf (18:08)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Daniel Zuleta (18:15)
example profitability
Dagobert Renouf (18:18)
And
the color is going to be the state, is it in good shape or not.
Daniel Zuleta (18:22)
Yeah,
yeah, you can pick. I mean, that's part of the thing.
Dagobert Renouf (18:25)
somebody like a non-profitable
client is gonna be red, I guess, and highly profitable will be green, just to give an idea.
Daniel Zuleta (18:32)
Yes,
yes and you can like put exact values over here and for example I... ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (18:39)
And how do you
get this data? How do you connect to other systems, I guess?
Daniel Zuleta (18:45)
Alright,
yeah, you have two choices. Actually, you can use like an API. I made one here. You can use Postman to test it but build it in your app so you can send it automatically through an API. And actually, I made a map for you. I noticed, yeah, yeah, I noticed you were putting stats, for example.
Dagobert Renouf (18:52)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, wow.
Yeah, I'm starting
to put, I want to be transparent. I think it's good.
Daniel Zuleta (19:15)
yeah so let's say you're putting stat and have an easy way where let's say you have this spreadsheet so you have all your all your customers for example in which round you send it what is the traffic and what are the sales or the income and you can just use this connection from the marketplace
Dagobert Renouf (19:23)
Yeah.
Yep.
So you created like a Google Sheets add-on. Wow, awesome.
Daniel Zuleta (19:42)
Yeah, you have a Google Sheet
add-on. So expand the file, you install it, and you get this side menu where you can set it to integrate every day. So if you put it here, every day is gonna send all this data. So you can actually update here and you end up with this map. So this is...
Dagobert Renouf (19:47)
Expandify. Yeah.
So I guess blue
is one launch day, green is another launch day, or is it people who got sales?
Daniel Zuleta (20:13)
Yeah,
yeah, yeah. Well, you can change it, whatever you want. So actually, I am coloring here by round. But let's say you want to color by sales.
Dagobert Renouf (20:21)
Yeah, so yeah, so launch day one or two.
Daniel Zuleta (20:33)
So now you have in red the ones that did some sales
Dagobert Renouf (20:38)
Oh yeah, it's reverse, yeah, okay, I see. Okay.
Daniel Zuleta (20:41)
⁓ Yeah, I can change it to traffic light so there you have in green
Dagobert Renouf (20:44)
Yeah,
Yeah. Orange, yellow, red for people who had zero. That's awesome. Wow. Okay, I see. And so how do you use that, like, with your team and everything? ⁓ Because that's cool for one person to have this, but the team aspect is interesting to me.
Daniel Zuleta (20:55)
So, I don't know, let's...
Okay.
right now we're using it first we have a few customers that are using too much hours so score is the income and hold on let me let me search one with here
So I need the team to be sure we're not spending so many hours on customers that are not paying enough. That is one thing. So right now we have a quick view of all the effort we do on each customer and we have the income. So the score and we actually have a score per work hour. So...
Dagobert Renouf (21:39)
Yes. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Daniel Zuleta (21:59)
This is one of the main goals. Second, I need to be sure that if we spend hours in a customer, we're providing value. So I'm starting to measure the value we provide. So we spend 100 hours on that customer. What would we do for him? Is he better? Is he worse?
Dagobert Renouf (22:12)
Mmm.
So
how do you measure that? What kind of data you use for measuring value? That's interesting.
Daniel Zuleta (22:24)
Yeah, we're working on it. ⁓ For example, the synthetic monitoring I told you is the robot that...
Dagobert Renouf (22:31)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Zuleta (22:33)
do all this scrapping and testing. If we didn't have that product, it means the user would need to test it or receive complaints by the user. So we're trying to measure how many complaints they got or how many runs we did to test. That's value because every time we test it, it's a chance that he didn't have to test it himself or a user didn't have to complain.
Dagobert Renouf (22:44)
Yeah.
It's nice because I remember in one of the only jobs I had in my life, we had a team doing Q &A testing, which I guess is a bit different, but still, it's cool to have like a robot do everything for you and like automate it, because like you never know when you're gonna push in production.
Daniel Zuleta (23:01)
So we're still working.
Dagobert Renouf (23:21)
is something going to break and the more complex the app, the harder it is to know. And for sure, we should do testing, but sometimes you cannot do testing and it's too annoying and clients don't want to pay for it. So you have to just check manually. So that sounds super relevant. Yeah.
Daniel Zuleta (23:36)
Yeah.
Yeah. And well...
Dagobert Renouf (23:40)
Cool man, what's
the thing you're most excited about this product that you're building?
Daniel Zuleta (23:49)
and alright my end goal
Dagobert Renouf (23:51)
the thing you're most proud
of having done. Then we'll talk about your long-term vision. But like so far, what's the cool thing that you think is cool?
Daniel Zuleta (23:57)
Okay.
I think it's a hard project so I'm really excited that ⁓ I felt that what I made in PPT is actually really similar to what I achieved.
Dagobert Renouf (24:16)
To be honest, yeah, this 3D thing
is quite impressive. I never done any 3D and so it immediately gives me like, wow, this is cool. Yeah.
Daniel Zuleta (24:27)
Yeah, to get all the details. Like here, I have like 500 metrics in one view. So I'm being able to condense a lot of KPIs into a single panel.
Dagobert Renouf (24:36)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Daniel Zuleta (24:43)
and
what I want now is to lead the team without micromanagement but leading them telling them what I want to achieve in numbers so they will be able to see in real time how I perform it
Dagobert Renouf (24:49)
Yeah.
Yeah, I see. And just to stay on the building for a little bit, how did you build this thing, this 3D visualization?
Daniel Zuleta (25:08)
Alright, I'm using 3GS for the map. I actually started with another tech and I noticed a lot of videos of people using 3GS and it worked like charm, like Curso made it. ⁓
Dagobert Renouf (25:11)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, so was easy. It
was easy to build this visualization.
Daniel Zuleta (25:28)
yeah to be honest it wasn't that hard the hard part probably was tweaking the hexagons if I if I use a grid it would have been a lot easier but to make this hexagon setup was harder yeah the hexagon grid was harder
Dagobert Renouf (25:43)
hexagon grid, yeah I see, yeah makes sense.
Cool, yeah, I want to try a project with some 3D now. That sounds cool. Okay, and so what's the vision now? What's the big thing you're going towards?
Daniel Zuleta (26:02)
Alright, the big thing is I want to build something that allows companies to grow with a flat organization. And what do you need to have a flat organization? Because I kind of hate manager roles. I love people that do things, not people that tell others what to do.
So the bigger the organization you start putting a lot of middle layer managers. And why is that? Because you can't handle to lead 10 people or 20 people or 30 people. It's too exhausting. So for me you need three things to be able to have a flat org. First, a shared vision. And the map is allowing me to have that shared vision.
Dagobert Renouf (26:36)
Mm-hmm.
Daniel Zuleta (26:58)
where I can measure results and people can see if they're doing well or bad. Second is knowledge. So I need to start working as well on something that I can like share knowledge with the company easily. And third, ⁓ I need something to track performance without a manager.
chasing people so track performance I'm thinking about if you have a git or something and you do commits maybe check the commits that people is doing ⁓ good commits the code like reviews automatically reviews for each row
Dagobert Renouf (27:42)
Yeah.
And you might be able
to use AI maybe to summarize what's happening. ⁓ That could be interesting. I think maybe there would be some... Can you show your website like your homepage, like your landing page? In English, if you can. Yeah.
Daniel Zuleta (28:06)
Yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (28:13)
Because what you said about flood organization, it's really, you know, I feel like it's connected to this trend of like remote work, asynchronous work, empowering people, making work more, you know, people have more agency, more autonomy. And I wonder if there's not some positioning or some, you know, ⁓ something to market, you know, like ⁓ not just talk about
⁓ this is the tool that does this. But like, this is the problem it solves. Like if you don't, if you're tired to spend all this time managing, if you want to have a more, ⁓ you know, empowering culture in your company, you know, like kind of like go the next step of thinking of what, ⁓ how it can help people like beyond just the tool itself. Don't know if you considered it. Yeah.
Daniel Zuleta (29:08)
Yeah, I'm actually thinking the best way to market it and so any feedback is welcome. ⁓ I haven't had much success trying to explain it, to be honest. So, flat org could be a good idea. ⁓ But I think I'm still far away from reaching it and this is just a part of flat org. But it could be more powerful.
Dagobert Renouf (29:22)
Hmm.
Yeah,
you know, I don't know if you saw, but in the first launch day, there was Pascal, who does the horse browser. ⁓ And it's a web browser that allows you to basically, there's no history. It's just everything is a trail. So when you open a link, opens, like you always see the trail. So if you follow a link, like 10 clicks deep,
you can always come back and then change your path. And it was very hard for him to explain and he worked on it for two years. And then one day he said, because he has ADHD, and he said, no, it's the browser for people with ADHD. And then that just like, and so that made me think of that, is that I thought,
Daniel Zuleta (30:24)
Here go. Wow.
Dagobert Renouf (30:29)
When you said that, it seemed like an open opportunity, because I don't know about flat organization, to be honest, but when you said that, seemed like it like it's a set of, like it's a concept that some people probably know about and they search about and they're interested in that and they're looking for tools for that probably. And so usually it's a good way to... ⁓
Because once you start, you position it, like when you say web browser for ADHD, you don't need to say anything else. People like, it's, I mean, you don't already, you don't know exactly what features it will have, but you know exactly if it's for you or not. And then you try and then you figure it out. And so that just made me think of that, you know, if you, I don't know, but like if you said something like the project management tool for flat organizations.
I don't know, it's maybe not that, you know, I'm brainstorming. But then you can start having, and maybe it's not flat org, but like, find the term that people would use, you know, that's just my two cents, but it can also take a while, you know, to figure that out. Yeah.
Daniel Zuleta (31:45)
Yeah, I'm thinking about doing some A-B tests or something with different landings as well to test it. ⁓ Because sometimes I think it could be a KPI tracker as well. But I think that's...
Dagobert Renouf (31:53)
Yeah.
It's just that KPI tracker doesn't
really capture the magic. It doesn't capture the originality because there's a billion KPI trackers. But because your thing is really cool. It's gamification, but it's not just gamification. It's like shared purpose, shared vision. And this unlocks benefits for special type of companies. That's a super... Man, that's like an interesting thing to think about. Yeah.
Daniel Zuleta (32:04)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, guess I could try to work on that. I love the concept of flat organizations. I'm working actually on that. I try to keep managers at minimum.
Dagobert Renouf (32:38)
Yeah, yeah, I felt it.
And did
you, that's really good, like this thing about, I don't know, make your company function well without managers or something. ⁓ And do you have customers already? People who accept you and your team, do you have people actively or not too much yet?
Daniel Zuleta (33:01)
on this product now, it's just starting. Yeah, I'm using it with my company. The only sign up so far are my employees.
Dagobert Renouf (33:03)
No, the beginning. It's the beginning, okay.
No, no, but that's okay. But like, because, you know, once you start having a few people, I mean, external, then they will tell you, you know, even just five or 10 people, you will probably find already by questioning them what kind of stuff they are interested in. And then you can start, you know, making progress on this positioning. Probably. Yeah.
Daniel Zuleta (33:39)
Yes, ⁓ so yeah, for KPI tracker, it's probably not enough, I don't know, but for example, you're using the...
Dagobert Renouf (33:48)
No,
no, don't worry about it. Like at the beginning, even if it seems a bit generic, it's fine because it's with the first users that you will understand exactly how to talk about it. So it's normal, it's the process. It's just very interesting for me to think about it.
Daniel Zuleta (34:18)
here you can like add new columns if you want to get tire well this can be sent automatically but let's say here I send a new day
Dagobert Renouf (34:22)
Yeah, I see.
Yeah, yeah, get it.
Daniel Zuleta (34:36)
So now you should have two points.
see if I put the right
now.
Oh, other 19. Yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (35:13)
Yeah?
Daniel Zuleta (35:15)
So, well, you can track.
demos always fails in life. Yeah but well you can actually once you have your data there you can share the link and I'm actually was thinking about marketing as a building public tool because I see every every people like sharing their MRRs in the indie community
Dagobert Renouf (35:23)
Yes, don't worry, it happens often. No worries.
⁓
Yeah.
Daniel Zuleta (35:46)
but I don't know are they fakes? how you track them? so you can actually like put it here and share this link and it's public so
Dagobert Renouf (35:51)
Mmm.
Oh, you didn't say that, that
it was public, that's cool. Yeah, you know, I think at this stage where you don't know exactly who it's for, how to sell it, it's just the time to hustle, try everything you can, and try to get your first customers, you know, and then that's what you need. I hope Launch Day can help you with that. And then you'll have real information to use for the next steps.
Daniel Zuleta (36:02)
Yeah.
Dagobert Renouf (36:28)
This looks cool.
Daniel Zuleta (36:31)
yeah so you can actually I don't know let's say you don't want to share your customers name you can change the visibility
Dagobert Renouf (36:40)
yeah, you can share but remove some information.
Yes, that's... I can see the backend guy here with like this form with every option available. Okay, it's like being in post-gray already or something. That's awesome. So yeah, we can do everything. ⁓
Daniel Zuleta (36:46)
Yeah. ⁓
Yeah,
you can you can hide it
Dagobert Renouf (36:58)
That's cool. Yeah, you can share your data publicly. That's cool also to like maybe for organizations that want to be transparent or maybe for projects that require lots of collaboration across different companies or departments. That's cool, man.
Daniel Zuleta (37:14)
Yeah, so
you see now these are obfuscated so you can share your map and see the combined sales for example, combined traffic
Dagobert Renouf (37:22)
Yeah.
Mm hmm. I see. see. Yeah, and hide their name if you don't want to show their name. That's cool.
Daniel Zuleta (37:34)
Yeah, hide the name if
you don't show. For example, I'm sharing my own company here, but the public data is obfuscated without the customer's name.
Dagobert Renouf (37:40)
Yeah.
Yeah, there's not the
name of the custom of course.
Daniel Zuleta (37:48)
Yeah, so yeah, I think in building public here and share your thoughts.
Dagobert Renouf (37:49)
Cool man.
Yeah, good idea. Yeah, that's awesome. OK, you can stop. You can stop sharing. ⁓
Man, that was good. I love the game kind of aspect. It reminds me of board games. Really cool.
Daniel Zuleta (38:12)
Yes, like, Kathan.
Dagobert Renouf (38:15)
Catan? I don't know Catan. What is that? Is that like a board game?
Daniel Zuleta (38:18)
Yeah, it's very popular. You have like a grid, an hexagon grid map and you get a reset. But yeah, it's like a board game.
Dagobert Renouf (38:25)
Hmm. Okay, I see.
I see. Man, that was great meeting you. ⁓ I hope you have a good experience on your launch day. I hope you get some feedback, maybe some sales. I wish you the best. So thanks for being here.
Daniel Zuleta (38:43)
That was, thank you very much for the opportunity. I had a great time and thank you for the help.
Dagobert Renouf (38:51)
You're a good man. Cheers.
Daniel Zuleta (38:53)
Bye, see ya.