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Sarah Willingham is an entrepreneur and former star of hit BBC series Dragons' Den. Having originally planned a career in finance, she tells Gabby Logan how she made her fortune in food, how she vowed to take a break from media commitments just hours before being offered a role as a Dragon, and why she and her husband let their children control the daily budget on their family gap year.
Join Gabby Logan every week as she speaks to some familiar faces about their relationship with money, the financial lessons they've learned on the road to professional success, and how they're investing for their family's future.
Visit ii.co.uk for more investing ideas and information.
Gabby: Hi, I’m Gabby Logan and this is The ii Family Money Show. In each episode I speak to a familiar face about the role money has played in their family life and professional success. In this episode I’m joined by entrepreneur and former Dragon on the BBC’s Dragon’s Den, Sarah Willingham. Growing up in Stoke Sarah started doing Saturday jobs from the age of 11, and from there went on to work for Pizza Express and Planet Hollywood.
Eventually she turned the Indian restaurant chain Bombay Bicycle Club into a multi-million pound business. She also, along with her husband, built and then floated the vitamin and supplement company Nutrihealth on the London Stock Exchange. After starting a family, she then totally changed the way she worked, pulling back from managing her businesses day to day so she could achieve a better work life balance, and spend more time with her four children.
In our interview Sarah tells me how she originally planned to work in finance before ending up in the food trade, why her time sharing an office with the Pizza Express Chief Executive gave her the confidence to choose her own path within the industry, and why she and her husband let their children control the daily budget on their family gap year.
There’s so much to get into with you Sarah, I can introduce you as a serially successful entrepreneur and former Dragon, I don’t know what you introduce yourself as, do you have a title when people say what do you do?
Sarah: It often really depends on what I’m doing. I think you’re right; I never really know. I mean for years I didn’t dare call myself an entrepreneur because I don’t really start stuff from scratch so I’m like I’m not a real entrepreneur but yes I suppose I’m an entrepreneur.
Gabby: Let’s go back to the beginning of your working life then and you started in the restaurant and hospitality industry didn’t you, that was where things started to get really serious for you in terms of success in business. How did you know that business was where you wanted to be?
Sarah: It’s a good question. I think I was always really fascinated with business; I don’t think I even knew that that was what I was really interested in. It’s only in hindsight that I think I was actually really interested in it, even at school. I was always really fascinated by the fact that we all drank the same drinks and bought the same brand of cheese, and wore the same shoes. I knew very much that when I went to university it was what I wanted to study. I wanted to do international business actually because my dad didn’t let me take a gap year, so I wanted to travel as well, that was really important to me.
But at school I couldn’t learn it, so I actually did terrible in my A levels because I just didn’t find my thing. It was only when I got to university and I was like yes, I do like this. I enjoy it.
Gabby: Why did your dad, incidentally, why did he not let you have a gap year, was that to do with family finances or was it just his strong belief that you should get on with it?
Sarah: Proper solid grafting northern working class family values of you’re not having a gap year. That’s a luxury. You’ll never come back. Get on and graft, get a job, start earning a living basically.
Gabby: So, as a kid then you must have had that, if that was something that was really strong as a family foundation the work ethic was something that was almost coming into you by osmosis was it as a child?
Sarah: For sure. I was really brought up with you look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves. I can still hear my mum saying that. I mean I saw my mum last week and I took her for a meal in London, and she was so horrified because she thought I’d over ordered. And I was like no, no, we’ll eat it, it’s fine. That mentally that you can’t let that go to waste our Sarah. I was like it’s just one really small taco that was being left, but we had to eat.
She would have been mortified about the fact that I’d over ordered and then there might be waste. She was even saying that to me last week. So, it was really instilled in me at a really young age. I still cook that way. I cook a lot and like my mum always had leftover days where she would either cook things that had actually already gone off in the fridge. I’m the same. Just because the date says it’s gone off I still smell it, taste it and then I’ll still cook from it. And I hate wastage, and that was instilled every single day of my life.
Gabby: So, there was frugalness and not wanting to waste things, but what about anybody else in the family that had a real sense of business acumen, and understood how businesses worked?
Sarah: Not so much. My mum was a maths teacher and a great mum, she always picked us up from school at 4 o’clock and was always there, and my dad whilst being in business it was very different. He had a job and he worked in supply chain management at Wedgewood, and was very, very good at what he did, but sees business completely differently from the way I did. Very much not a risk taker. So, I don’t know where that came from. I mean I get asked that a lot in terms of the sort of drive, and that need to, I don’t know whether it’s to be successful by my definition of the word success in what it is that I’m doing. But I just think it’s something your born with.
Gabby: And it was clearly ignited then when you got to university and you found the course, and you found the subject that really was all about this is it, this is the thing I want, what an exciting feeling that must have been.
Sarah: It was, and do you know what, I didn’t feel the need to have my own business at all. I was never driven by I’ve got to be an entrepreneur. Whatever it is that I do I want to do well, otherwise frankly what’s the point. You only get that minute once so why not go all in and enjoy it, whether I’m having a great time, I’m out for the night, or I’m working hard, or with my friends, whatever it is I want to do, I want to do it really, really well. And I think with business I was just so fascinated by the subject that I wanted to learn.
And actually, in my 20s I had great jobs and was really happy, I didn’t think I’m going to go off and do this on my own. I was really happy travelling, learning, being surrounded by brilliant people, learning from them and I would have carried on doing the same thing had it have fitted my life.
Gabby: And so, the restaurant business which you became kind of well known for being successful in, that wasn’t the first industry or the first area that you worked in then was it, or had you always kind of gone in that direction?
Sarah: That was kind of luck really. I’d always had a Saturday job since I was 11, and it has always been in hospitality. So, it was an industry I knew, and I loved. I didn’t think – as I think actually so few people do even today, think there’s a career in it, there’s a future in it, and then actually I’m the same age as you, so back in my day when I left university it was just called to go and work in the city. Everyone wanted to go and work in the city.
You want to meet a city boy and work in the city. That was like what everybody talked about. Not so much now, everybody wants to be an entrepreneur, I’m cool finally. Then I just couldn’t get a job in the city. I mean nobody was – I hadn’t done well in my A levels, and even though I did really well in my degree it was really difficult to get into. I’m not mathematical enough to be able to do it.
And then I actually had a – I was doing a work placement on the Paris Stock Exchange as a runner, I don’t know if you remember the old open outcry floors where people wore those multicoloured jackets, and I used to be the runner that would take the ticket. Well, there was two left over, one in Paris and one in Chicago, and I managed to get a job as a runner. I applied to every single business that was on that floor. I was determined to wear one of those jackets one day in my life. It’s brilliant.
And I was working there at a time doing a work placement and I had a part time job in a great business actually, they’ve now got quite a few of them, but this was their first, called The Frog and Roast Beef in Paris. And I was just working on a Sunday afternoon, and I was good behind the bar, it was busy when all the rugby was on, loads of people, pulling pints, it was great. And the owners of that who are two lads from – who had done an MBA at INSEAD, they just started it.
But the people who had project managed were also project managing the Planet Hollywood opening on the Champs Elysees and they were having an absolute nightmare with the Americans because the Americans had kind of come over and they couldn’t understand these French workers that were stopping for lunch. They were only doing a 35 hour week, really? So, they just could not cope with the sort of European culture especially the French.
And they asked the owners of the Frog and Roast Beef if they would help them out. And they said to this day I’m so grateful, they said no but there’s – we’re really busy, we’re going to open our second site but there’s this girl that works on a Sunday afternoon, you should speak to her, and then that was it. I then – because I got into sort of the head office side of, the business side of restaurants I was like this is it, I’m done. I love this.
Gabby: Had you always been somebody that loved eating out and loved the whole kind of process of going out for dinner and being in a restaurant?
Sarah: Completely, I mean I couldn’t really afford it then to be honest and my family never really ate out, but I just love food. Really love food. I’m very social so I love people. So, it’s perfect industry for me and I have to say now I’ve been in it for so many years I just don’t think there’s a better industry. I mean the people are amazing that work in hospitality.
Gabby: When we go, we love eating out, and we always say if you’ve had a seven out of 10 meal, but your service has been 10 out of 10 you can forgive a few things. If your service is two out of 10 and the food is 10 out of 10, all you remember somebody being rude to you or – and it’s so interesting that what’s created, the vibe that’s created, but that’s hard to do when you’re looking at chains of restaurants which you’ve become involved with. So, how do you manage that, how do you manage people?
Sarah: I was really lucky in my 20s that I worked, after Planet Hollywood I went to Pizza Express, and to be honest almost today they’re – probably their financial structuring is not the best but as a business it’s still a benchmark in the industry. And I was very, very lucky that I got to share an office, before I left got to share an office for about 18 months with the chief executive and the chair of Pizza Express and the time literally changed everything for me.
And then I was like a sponge, I must have driven them mad actually, I’m sure they don’t see that period of time through rose tinted spectacles like I do, I’m like it was a glorious time, they probably think thank God she went. Actually, the life I was living at the time, I was in my late 20s and I really wanted to have loads of kids and I was travelling all over, and I was like you can’t keep doing this Sarah, this is not going to work.
Gabby: You’ll burn out.
Sarah: This path is not the path to be on, but I love the industry. And it was sharing an office with them, and understanding exactly what you said, like how do you do, how do you have the right people in the right places and understanding when to hire the teams on a roll out schedule, I thought I know what I’ve got this, I’m going to do this myself.
Gabby: And you mentioned there that you knew you wanted to have lots of children but you’re leading such a busy life in a – and business is still, you know, and then I imagine much more male dominated in terms of people in positions of power.
Sarah: Very, yes.
Gabby: So, how were you confident or how did you know that you were going to be able to balance the two?
Sarah: I’ll tell you how it was in all honesty I have always prioritised my life, always. In every single decision I’ve ever made, every career change, let’s call it that, that I’ve made it’s been because I’ve been prioritising my life. So, I don’t believe in a career path at all. I think a career path is a path that will go very wrong. I really believe in a life path, and I think you have your life path, and you have to be fluid on that, of course, it’s going to move as you get older and you’re in different stages of your life, but career absolutely has to fall into line.
100% for me. It’s never, ever the other way around. And that’s how I believed I could do it because I knew I’d be non-compromising of the things that really matter to me. So, I wanted to be a mum. I therefore had to set my life up to allow me to be a mum and that I controlled my diary, and I didn’t have to be Geneva on a Monday, Moscow on a Tuesday, somewhere else on a Thursday.
To every possibility that I could have I would be in charge of that. And that was a really crucial decision, so I made that decision before I’d even met Michael, before I’d started to have children, and because I made that decision before by the time the kids came I was set up basically, and I also knew I had to make a bit of cash, that’s really important.
Gabby: So, it was important to you to have a kind of buffer was it before you started to have a family?
Sarah: Yes. Well, because ultimately really all money does is give you, if you have that mindset is give you freedom, that’s my drive is to be free. And I knew that if I set myself up that I was in charge, made a bit of cash, I would actually by the time I got to be a mum I would have the freedom to make the decisions, and the career has just got to fall into line.
Gabby: So, had you started then to invest in other things apart from the industry you were working in?
Sarah: Not until after I started to have kids. So, again that was very much a reaction to my life. So, I’d had number two, I had them rally quickly, like four in four years, so I’d had Monty who was number two, and with Minnie she was so easy, she came in a papoose, and I just wandered around and carried on with my life really running the chain of restaurants. And then when I had Monty all of a sudden I’ve got this toddler at home, and I’d got the new born. So, again a new born, I fed him for six months, all of them.
So, again he comes in a papoose, off we go on the train to London, whatever, but Minnie was then left at home, and I was like I can’t do this, she’s only 14 months. So, that made me make the shift again where I said OK I’ve made the leap to be on my own, but actually I was going to have to do things differently again because I wasn’t going to be able to run this business. I had 1500 staff. I couldn’t do it and have lots of children. So, I then decided to sell and that’s when I started to invest.
Gabby: And when you started though to really seriously think about it after you’d had your second baby and you started to look at where you were going to invest what was your priority at that point? Were you going to invest in things you knew about or were you going to invest in things that you had a kind of – what was your risk like, where was your head in terms of the kind of strategy you had for your investments?
Sarah: So, when I started invested very low risk it was things that not only did I know and really understand, and I still only invest in things that I know and really understand, it had to be something that I felt that I could move the needle. I could actually really make a difference to these businesses. And that’s still – slightly less so because Michael and I both invest and sometimes it can be something that he really, really understands and therefore we will invest.
And he then has to run that. But anything that I lead on it’s something that I really understand. I’m always a pretty active investor, so I’d rather take a more significant chunk or stake, and then be part of the business.
Gabby: And that of course lends itself very nicely to being a Dragon doesn’t it, and that is where you would have become much more well known through that experience, I’m sure. I’m sure you were well known in business but suddenly you’re in people’s living rooms when you join a show like Dragon’s Den, tell me a little bit about the thought process of doing that and how much did you think about how that would change you and your family’s life.
Sarah: Yes. So, it’s a really good question actually and you’re right, it was a huge decision. It’s not something I strive for. I still want to be able to go shopping in Aldi with my kids and shout at them without everybody looking at me going “Look, that’s Sarah Willingham off the telly”.
Gabby: Shouting at her kids.
Sarah: Exactly. So, I’d done three series of a show called The Restaurant with Raymond Blanc, which is a bit like The Apprentice, so I’d had a little bit of a taste of TV then. And loved the process of TV, not so great of the process of not being able to stand in Aldi and shout at your kids. But that wasn’t such a huge show. I used to have a regular on Sky and do lots of little things. Went on to ITV This Morning quite a bit. It’s like it’s not actually adding to my life. I’m not going to do it anymore. I’m going to focus on my businesses.
Focus on being a mum, my kids were really young at the time. And we also had this plan where we wanted to go travelling. And this was January, it took me to the middle of February to pretty much get rid of everything to do with media in my life, and it was the last phone call I made actually was to Eamonn Holmes, and I called him to say, “Just so you know, thank you so much for the opportunity, I’ve loved it, but I’m not going to do the Sky Regular anymore”. And put the phone down.
I phoned Michael and I said, “Right, I’ve done it. That was the last one. No more media” and I kid you not that afternoon I got an email in my inbox asking me if I would come and screen test for Dragon’s Den. And I was like what.
Gabby: The universe was going off. Thank goodness she’s cleared some space for us.
Sarah: That’s exactly what happened. I was like that cannot be right, I’ve just made this decision, what am I going to do. And I hardly – I thought they screen test 90 women; they’re never going to pick me. I’ll just go along. I’ll meet Deborah Meaden, maybe we can become really good friends, it will be a good laugh. That will be it. So, I went on the Monday, the following Monday and did the screen test and then on the Wednesday I got a text message to say just to let you know you’re down to the last three.
I was like oh my God. I said, “You know that thing I did on Monday” because we hadn’t really taken it that seriously, “We actually need to have a proper conversation about this because this might happen”. And it was really last minute because somebody – it was supposed to be Tomorrow Melon who do Jimmy Coo and that had all fallen through for whatever reason, so it was quite last minute, the filming was starting like a month later or something. So, anyway on the Friday I get a phone call, congratulations. I needed to breathe into a bag, that can’t be right.
Gabby: Did you know what the commitment was at that point, had they –
Sarah: Yes, I know the time commitment and of course the financial commitment is whatever it is that you decide to invest, and I was like the problem with doing, as you know, the problem with doing anything in TV is you really need to do it twice because the first time you’re a bit like a rabbit in the headlights, nobody knows who you are. You don’t really get it. The second time you really enjoy the process. You sit comfortably in your seat. You love it. So, I was like if I commit I’m actually really committing to two series.
And that was the challenge because it was the second year of filming that we had planned to take the kids out of school for a year and go travelling around the world. So, we had to – when Michael and I said let’s do it, it’s an amazing opportunity, I mean 120 businesses literally get brought to you and it was fantastic, and I loved it, every minute of it, I loved it, but it did mean us moving our round the world trip for another year. Which was completely fine.
Gabby: So, you finally get on your year out, your gap year, the gap year your dad said you couldn’t have.
Sarah: You see, honestly.
Gabby: What goes around comes around. How did you explain, I mean your kids of an age I guess where they were going to come along for the ride whatever, they weren’t teenagers.
Sarah: Totally, they were between five and 10 and in fact we ended up not coming back, and we ended up going for three years in the end.
Gabby: Three years!
Sarah: Yes, it was great.
Gabby: How were they educated in that time then?
Sarah: Pretty much nothing on the first year round, so honestly I mean it’s so bad – so we had 23 kilos of luggage each, we had six around the world economy tickets, that’s all we had got for the year. So, if you bought something it was because you had to replace something that fell apart. That was all we had. So, we had – God, I think it was about 12 kilos in total of school books, hilarious. And what we were thinking. We were completely delusional. So, about six weeks in I remember sitting down at a table trying to go through these like maths books.
And English books and I just thought I can’t have this relationship with my kids. I do not want to do this. It’s going to ruin my year. I just said to Michael, “I don’t care. They’re too young. Let us educate them as we go around the world on life, on economics, on nature, on the environment, on culture, on politics. Let’s just educate them and deal with the aftermath later should we need to”. And actually, I remember having a very sensible conversation with the kids towards the end of the year where we said if you need to go back a year are you prepared to do that, this is the decision that we’re making here. And all of them were like all in, we want to have a great year and if we have to go back a year we don’t care. It doesn’t matter.
Gabby: So, when you get to year two what happens then?
Sarah: Then they went to a school. So, we were – towards the end of the first year we were properly travelling at that point with our little 23 kilos of luggage, and I think it was April and our return ticket was beginning of August, and I just said to Michael, it took us two years to make ourselves redundant from our life, why on earth are we rushing back when we don’t have to. I was still flying back and forth, and so was he, and even though it wasn’t Zoom or Microsoft Teams, we could still have board meetings on video. It was working.
So, I said we’ve never done a ski season, none of us could ski, why don’t we go closer to home, because we were in Australia at the time, why don’t we go closer to home but not quite home. And then we sat and Googled ski in and ski out schools, Europe. Hilariously. And this village came up in Switzerland and we were like right let’s go. And that’s what we did. We went to this village in the middle of the mountains and ended up staying there for two years. And they had – they went to proper school there.
Gabby: While you were away it’s like, you know, you think about when you’re holiday and you don’t want to come home, how quickly do you start to kind of live your life on those kinds of trips, and it’s not like you’re on holiday, because you have to do real things like discipline kids, and make sure they go to bed. When you’re on holiday, whatever, eat chocolate in bed but when that’s your life for three years how quickly do you start kind of –
Sarah: Pretty quickly. We spent the first month in Canada and that very much felt like a holiday. But we – so we had a really strict budget every day which the kids ran, which was brilliant, and it really made them understand the value of money actually. The relative value I should say of money which I think is the only value of money, it’s all about context. So, for example, if we decided to go out to eat in an evening that would mean we would have to pay less for our accommodation that night.
Or if we had done a really big trip, especially in Canada because the petrol was more expensive, I’ll never forget learning that when we crossed the border, why is it so much more expensive. And they – so if we spent $80 on filling up the tank of petrol in Canada then you couldn’t go out for the meal that night, and you’d go to the supermarket and buy a roast chicken and a baguette.
Gabby: And they were in charge of that?
Sarah: They were in charge of that. So, if they wanted to go to Universal Studios, for example, when we got down to LA well that has an impact, right. You can’t afford that out of one day’s budget so we agreed that we would effectively [unintelligible 00:25:03] it over seven days, and we would take off the amount of the tickets over that seven day period, but what it meant was it was packed lunches every day. And it was – we went to the supermarket and bought the food.
And they were like we want to go to Universal Studios. And that happened, a lot of the time there would be like no, in that case let’s not do this. I mean we stayed in some awful accommodation, and I remember them – when we got to San Diego they were like I don’t care what it costs we will eat banana in a baguette every day, we want to stay somewhere really nice.
Gabby: The kids said that?
Sarah: The kids said that. With really soft towels. I was like OK. So, it was brilliant.
Gabby: So, now your kids are back in mainstream education and living a more normal life, are you quite good on setting rules regarding money, pocket money, doing chores?
Sarah: But I think it’s much more because of the way that I was brought up really that I’m really strict on it. And I had a job when I was their age, so I’m always saying to them go out and get a job. We’ve just started, so Minnie is nearly 16 and Monty is 14, and they now get some money to get their bus, to get a snack after school and it probably is enough for them to go out for dinner twice a month or something with their friends.
But I kind of draw the line at that really. If you want clothes and you’ll need clothes obviously I’ll buy them, if you need a pair of shoes or whatever I’ll buy them if you need them, but I’m like go and get a job, go and earn some money. So, actually in fairness to them they have all found ways of earning money. Monty has earnt money on his computer games. Like road blocks, he did really well during lockdown on that.
Nellie has started a gorgeous little ring business where she makes ceramic animal rings, and she gets one or two orders off Etsy every week. It’s great really. It’s brilliant that she’s learnt it. And Minnie does a mean trade on DPOP.
Gabby: Over to my right I have a pile of parcels that are going off today. She’s been doing DPOP this weekend and I sometimes say to her look I’ve got all this stuff here; you can take 50% of whatever you sell because either I’m just going to put it in a charity shop or give it to your grandma.
Sarah: I do exactly the same. Help yourself. This is the stuff I don’t want anymore. If you can sell it brilliant.
Gabby: And it just gives them a sense of independence as well doesn’t it. I see her printing off her labels and packaging things up I think well, you know, she’s getting on and doing stuff. These lessons obviously that came from your childhood in many ways, and you realise how they’ve helped create you to be the person that you are, and obviously you and your husband have very similar values, you said earlier on that in your 20s not so many investments, maybe a little pension.
Have you become, as you’ve got older, a little bit safer in some of the investments that you’ve done, so as well as businesses have you got things like pensions and ISAs that are just ticking over?
Sarah: Not really, and the reason is because I’ve found something that I’m really good at, and I really like investing, and I am good at it, and things like the EIS scheme make it really interesting financially tax wise to be able to invest in small perceived much higher risk investments. I would say to anybody if you don’t have that alternative the pensions are really tax efficient, it’s a brilliant way of investing, you’ve just got to find the right people. But sometimes I meet these people and I think I know I can invest better than you.
So, I’m going to do it. But that’s because I have found my niche. I don’t invest in FTSE250 which they do, and they do very successfully. I invest in small businesses, A listed businesses, private businesses, but it’s what I do, and I love, and I know how to – I’m know what I’m looking for. But I do think – my best friend used to make so much money out of property because he was brilliant at it, I’d be terrible at that.
Gabby: I’m sure along the way some decisions haven’t gone as well as others, and every successful person in any walk of life whether you’re a sports person or an entrepreneur will tell you about the mistakes they learnt from. What would you say is the one learning or the blip, the bump in the road that you learnt a lot from?
Sarah: We started a business a long time ago now called Let’s Save Money. And actually, it was, yes it made a little bit of profit. It wasn’t a complete and utter disaster. But it never got to where it should have got to, we never made a success out of it put it that way at all. And I guess in the grand scheme of businesses it would be classed as a failure.
Gabby: And do you know why?
Sarah: I think a couple of reasons, one was we went into something that we knew nothing about, that was a real learning, it was a long time ago, it was real learning. And then it was a very crowded market and we had not nailed the fundamental marketing business model, for every pound you spend what am I going to get back. And again, a huge learning, and it’s something I – every business I look at if I give you a pound how much am I getting back. It’s such an important question. And again, I didn’t have the answer to that early on and we never really got there. We thought we would be never really got the right answer.
Gabby: And so, I guess those learnings have then made going forwards –
Sarah: Huge. You never forget the failures, ever. They sit with you and – although I don’t give myself 20 lashings anymore. I’ve definitely learnt from them.
Gabby: And with your kids they had this amazing experience of budgeting for three years which I just think is absolutely brilliant, and the closest I can relate to that is when we used to go out for dinner as kids, we had £5 to spend, we were never allowed to spend more than that so we would have choose between a starter and – if you wanted a Coca-Cola – they’d be ordering smoked salmon to start, then having a steak and we’d have this £5 thing, when I tell my kids they go really, nanna did that to you.
But your kids had three years of budgeting which is absolutely brilliant. Now, what do they think of money because you’re not driven I don’t think by necessarily – you want the business to be a success but the material side and the comfort, you keep pointing back to freedom and choice rather than saying I need my Lamborghini and my house in St Tropez. So, where do they kind of see money in terms of their values?
Sarah: It’s really a good question, I’d love to actually – I’d love for you to ask all four of them, that is a really straight question and see what answer we got if they were asked like that. What do I think they would say? I definitely I don’t think that they are at all driven by material possessions, none of them care about what they wear or the designers, all that type of thing at all. Of course, they have a privileged life, of course they do.
We live in a really nice house in a really nice place, but we’ve never been driven – we don’t have – I’m not a car person, we have very nice holidays, like that’s our thing but not always luxury, they’re often, even now like a real adventure, it’s not about staying somewhere that’s really posh. It’s actually about doing something or living – we like to try and live somewhere, immerse ourselves in it when we turn up.
I definitely think that one of the things that they will take away from their time, their upbringing will be to write your own narrative. Hold the pen to your own story. Sorry about all the cliches, they’re terrible, like it’s in charge of your destiny. Either take a risk or work for somebody that took one. It’s that mentality.
Gabby: So, by the sounds of it then there are four budding entrepreneurs there.
Sarah: I think definitely a couple of them will go down that path for sure. One is very creative so that will be interesting because me and Michael aren’t particularly creative. So, we’ll see where she ends up. But I think they are – they’re very grateful for the freedom that we’ve had as parents to be with them, and the emphasis that we’ve put on that, and we involve them in all our decisions rightly or wrongly, and only time will tell if we got this right or not.
Gabby: And there’s no point asking you about plans because it’s clear from what you said at the very beginning that you don’t believe in that, it’s about life, and I think that’s a beautiful to kind of end because you seem to have made some very good decisions with that as your background, and it’s been fascinating Sarah. Thank you so, so much for sharing so much with us today. And best of luck with everything that’s going forwards.
Sarah: Thank you so much for having me on, it’s been so lovely. I feel like I shouldn’t leave without asking you loads of questions. It’s always wrong isn’t it?
Gabby: Thanks for listening. If you have time please like and follow the II Family Money Show and leave us a review or rating in your podcast app. You can find loads of ideas on how to plan for you and your family’s future at ii.co.uk. I’ll see you next time.