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What if you’re not alone and definitely not crazy for longing for a healthier world? What if your tribe is out there also searching for ways to navigate this tumultuous time in history? This podcast is for people looking for wisdom and courage to take a stand and plant seeds of change – with purpose and joy.
Come join us as we explore the rich web of life and our being – who we are and what we wish to become. We humans are gardeners; creators and guardians of life, of connections, of stories, and of the change we wish to see in the world. Step inside the Human Greenhouse to get inspired and nourished, so you can shine your unique light on this precious Earth – we need you!
The Human Greenhouse podcast is hosted by Tatjana Harttung and graced by wonderful humans with something on their mind and in their hearts to share.
[00:00:00] Tatjana: Welcome to this episode of the Human Greenhouse today it is my absolute pleasure to welcome Danièle Fogel to the show. Danièle is founder and owner of Yervika, and works with, uh, herbalism knowledge of herbs. You are an educator, an educational researcher. The, the CV is very long and very beautiful. welcome to the show. Would you like to, to tell our listeners a little bit more about, uh, who you are?
[00:00:29] Daniéle: Sure. Thank you so much for having me. so yeah, I'm, I'm an herbalist. Uh, and an educator. And, um, I aim to guide people to reorient towards nature and our inherent belonging to the earth. Um, and I do this through teaching about herbs and herbalism, which I really believe enables, uh, reclamation of, um, so many things.
[00:00:49] Daniéle: Um, ancestral knowledge, um, and ancestral wisdom and a reorientation to. Being in better balance with the earth and our environments and, um, everything around us. Um, and so I really believe in herbalism and that, you know, this relearning the ancestral language of herbs, um, can help connect us to our innate power, um, facilitate a greater sense of wholeness and wellbeing and is really, really needed for our time.
[00:01:18] Tatjana: Talk to us a little bit about this call to get back into or, or get more involved with, with, uh, with herbs and herbalism. Where, where does that come from?
[00:01:29] Daniéle: so.
[00:01:30] Daniéle: Herbalism, uh, and using herbs and our relationship with herbs, um, is something that exists in all of our lineages. Um, herbal medicine was humanity's first, uh, form of medicine. Um, and so we've actually co-evolved with herbs, you know, even as sort of quote unquote modern medicine. Um. You know, was developed, came along, um, and replaced a lot of, of herbal medicine, although interesting fact for 40% of our current pharmaceuticals, um, come from herbs.
[00:02:02] Tatjana: Wow, I did not know that.
[00:02:04] Daniéle: yeah, it's a very, very large number.
[00:02:06] Daniéle: Um, but so, you know, a lot of, um, herbal practices and actually people's, um, self-sufficient practices around their own caring for their own healing and the healing of their loved ones. Was replaced in a lot of places by, um, modern medicine. and you know, there's been a resurgence of sort of, uh, relearning herbs and herbalism in a lot of places, um, and communities where this knowledge has been lost, um, in recent times.
[00:02:36] Daniéle: And I think that's a really. Really telling to sort of, um, how much this ancestral language, this ancestral knowledge, um, can benefit us in this present moment and for our future.
[00:02:49] Daniéle: for me, I really feel that, there's a, a need to get into better balance with our environments. Um, are, the earth is like screaming, telling us that we're doing something very wrong. and. there's just, uh, there's, there's a call and a calling to, to start paying attention, to start paying more attention, and, and part of that calling involves, um, getting into better relationship with our environment, slowing down.
[00:03:17] Daniéle: everyone that I know is burnt out and I believe that herbs, um, and herbalism and really this ancestral knowledge can, can help us come into better alignment with our environment, can help us come into better balance, um, more self-sufficiency in terms of taking care of our health, um, into more wholeness and, and into more, uh, wellbeing.
[00:03:39] Tatjana: Yeah. You know, it's so interesting. I I, I love that. And I, and I know you've talked about previously that the, the knowledge of herbs or the experience with herbs is also something that you have from. From your mother, right? In terms of what herbs might have worked for, for different things. And, and that really resonated for me, you know, um, one of my kids when he was little was very allergic to a number of things.
[00:04:03] Tatjana: And it wasn't until there was an elder in my family that said, oh, you need to make chamomile flour tea and put it on cotton buds or cotton swabs, and then bathe his eyes. And, you know, he'd gone through all these prescription things and, and it was the only thing that worked.
[00:04:18] Daniéle: that's beautiful. I think I, yeah, I did grow up with my mom giving me various herbs for various ailments. Never of course, herself calling it herbalism or herbal knowledge. but my own process of beginning to actually. Like identify these practices as herbalism, as herbal practice, as something also that's been, you know, mainly done, practiced and carried by women, has been very profound.
[00:04:43] Daniéle: Coming into understanding of like, actually wow. A lot of the herbs that she gave me. Our ancestral herbs for me, right? That half of my family is from the Mediterranean region. And a lot of those, those herbs like lemon, verina, thyme, are, are from the Mediterranean region. And so kind of even just imagining that and, and coming into deeper relationship and deeper consciousness and awareness that these herbs are, are part of my lineage, which actually means that, you know, people were practicing herbal medicine with them.
[00:05:16] Daniéle: And also when they got away from that, or were pulled away from that for various reasons, they were still cooking with these, these herbs. They were still putting herbs on certain dishes or things, you know, and it's just, it's just a very profound experience. I know it can sound sort of strange and perhaps foreign to people who don't have a, a conscious relationship with herbs or just don't have a relationship with herbs, um, in general, but really coming into deeper relationship within Herb is like, it's so grounding. because we as humans, we inherently have an interdependent relationship with nature. Whether or not We like, are conscious of it or sort of believe in it or think it's woo woo or what? Like we literally inhale oxygen, which it comes from the plants, and we exhale Sue too, which is food for the plants.
[00:06:07] Daniéle: Like we could not exist without the plant world. And humans have been using herbs for like centuries, right? And so for me it's, it's invited a slowing down. It's invited, an ancestral reclamation, it's invited, understanding my own power and agency and my own sort of inner healer, which I believe everyone has.
[00:06:32] Tatjana: Amen to that. Yes.
[00:06:35] Daniéle: and just the capacity to enhance the wellbeing of. My own life, my, you know, my family's life, people around me is really incredible. You know, I think so many of our products have so many things in them that are so bad for us. And there was, you know, there was a recent study done in France about how so many products or so many ingredients in. Beauty products, messes with the hormones of women, messes with everybody, but specifically detrimental to women. And to, to know that, and to know that you can use an herb, you know, you can make your own ointment for something instead of having a pharmaceutical product that has all of these other things and can perhaps cause side effects, which you don't get with herbs, is it's life changing.
[00:07:21] Tatjana: I really feel what you're saying and, and I remember, uh, both my, my, my parents, but, but also my grandmothers, knowing about herbs, knowing what weeds you could use for cooking or you could use for tea or, you know, if someone had a, a sunburn or an insect bite or, you know, if you had, you know, menstrual cramps or, or migraines or whatever.
[00:07:46] Tatjana: Um, there was this knowledge and, and I don't know that it was necessarily actively given to us as, as grandchildren. and I think it was during that time when maybe, you know, modern stuff was good stuff. Right. but I, I know for myself and, and, and for a lot of people that I know, there is this longing to kind of get back to that agency and yes, I can actually look after myself and my health for my family, So, so talk, talk us through a little bit about the name Yervika, which is a very beautiful name. I know it has real resonance and meaning.
[00:08:21] Daniéle: so my, um, maternal grandparents are from, or were from Greece and Turkey. Um, and their first language, uh, was Ladino, um, which is, uh, the language spoken by Sephardic Jews. Um, as spart of Jews being Jews who lived in Spain for, for many, many, many years, and then were expelled in 1492, along with, the mos, along with the Muslims, also from Spain.
[00:08:45] Daniéle: and a lot of of Jews migrated to, um, north Africa and, um, different countries in what was in the Ottoman Empire. And so my family, Went there to, current day Greece and, uh, Turkey. And, so the, these communities of Jews, uh, spoke Ladino, which is currently in an endangered language, but there's, we're seeing a resurgence of interest of younger generations wanting to relearn it.
[00:09:09] Daniéle: But, um, it was the secret language of my grandparents with my mom, so she didn't learn it. But we have, you know, words here and there and, um, I've actually learned different words related to herbs like, um. Words for am herbal amulet in ladino. But, I had to ask around, but, uh, learned that the word for herb in ladino is Y with, sorry. Y with a Y. uh, which, which means urban and, um. Ika is, um, sort of like ITA in Spanish. It's sort of a, um, you know, a suffix that kind of expresses endearment express as like,
[00:09:45] Daniéle: oh, they're like so cute. Like little, like, you know, you could say like, Daniela.
[00:09:50] Tatjana: yeah,
[00:09:50] Tatjana: exactly. Or Inyo. In Portuguese. Yeah. Lovely.
[00:09:53] Daniéle: I basically took the word and the suffix ika to just kind of express endearment. So it's, it's, um, you know, it's an expression of like ancestral reclamation and connection that, um, connecting with herbs and learning about herbs can bring, um, and, and also just to, to be also in remembrance of, of the preciousness of herbs and, and all that they, they can bring to our lives.
[00:10:15] Tatjana: And, and when you, uh, work with herbs, What, what's the sort of, what's the scope? because there are all the lovely, beautiful. weeds on the roadside, right? Or on the path that, where I take the dog for a walk and I know. A few of them, I recognize them as actually herbal remedies, right? If, if they are made into tea, but they're not necessarily grown commercially or in people's gardens, they just sort of have this little secret life down the garden path somewhere.
[00:10:42] Daniéle: Well, your herbs that you see on the path. Are herbs that you could work with, do you see nettles, for example?
[00:10:50] Tatjana: Yes. Loads.
[00:10:52] Daniéle: So you could, you know, do some research on when is best to harvest nettles, the leaf. And it's before, it's, before it goes to seed. Um, so it's earlier in the season and you could harvest some, and you could make a nettle soup, or you could make nettles pesto, or you could make a cake with nettles in it or something like that.
[00:11:11] Daniéle: That is herbalism to me. any way that we work with herbs, even cooking, that's actually a lot of, that's the way that I think the majority of people interact with herbs is, I wouldn't say it's herbal medicine, but there are medicinal properties that you're putting into your food. Your food has medicinal properties, there's a whole field called. food as medicine, right? And sort of looking at why we put certain foods together because it enhances the, the nutritional value, which is medicinal for our bodies. but yeah, so there's, there's herbs, you know, as quote unquote weeds. Dandelion also being another big one which you can eat the leaf, you can use the roots. It's an amazing liver cleanser. You can use the flour, make it dandelion, honey, in the spring. It's amazing.
[00:11:59] Daniéle: And there's, you know, herbs that you might plant in a garden because you want to, you know, use them medicinally to make an oil or a salve or, body cream or, you know, a tincture or. Just be in relationship with them too. Right. Um, that's part of it also. So it's, it's a very, very wide range. Um, like I said before, I think everyone has an inner healer. So even, to be honest, even you connecting with that, with those herbs on the path is, um, yeah. I, I think is is part of what encompasses herbalism, you're recognizing, right. It's, I think herbalism really invites this, it invites us into an awareness consciousness. What? Oh, there's a plant being right. Here's a plant. Being like, I am in relationship whether I know it or not, um
[00:12:50] Tatjana: Yeah, absolutely. We have, um, a, uh, the coastal region here. There's also quite a lot of plants, uh, that grow in the sand along the coast. that, you know, Hawthorne is, is one of them. and, um, rose hip, which is apparently not entirely indigenous, but it has a, it has a good time here in Denmark. Um, and of course That's really wonderful, right?
[00:13:13] Tatjana: But also that people are recognizing that, you know, even the sort of local areas where, where the sea is still relatively healthy, um, that there's seaweed there and there's, there's just, Lots of other little herbs that I don't even know the names for. but I love that idea of that we can be autonomous with it, right?
[00:13:32] Tatjana: If, if we take care of our environment, we can be autonomous in the sense that we can choose what to put in our bodies, right? We can make the ointments, we can, um, empower ourselves and, and come into right relationship with, uh, with, with the plants and with with the earth by going out to to find them and look after them.
[00:13:50] Daniéle: and, and I it's sort of aligned with what a lot of people are looking for. I think a lot of people are sort of, longing for more balance, more like groundedness more, rest, more, you know? And even for, for me, it started as like little moments of mindfulness, of observing my environment and then it kind of took off from there, you know, and it changed everything.
[00:14:13] Tatjana: And I think that that's so interesting, you know, we, when we talk about change and you know, we want to, you know, have a more balanced life and world and we want to save our planet, and, and there's enough to, to be doing what I love about what you've have, have told me about herbalism and that it's, it's very near.
[00:14:31] Tatjana: So it's, it's very close to who you are and where you are. It, it doesn't allow itself to be rushed. So there's something about the mindfulness that you also talk about, right? We, we are, we are invited to actually slow down, and, and be with what there is and focus on that. you know, it, it's, I remember when we talked about it previously, you know, you sort of think in instead of lots of, you know.
[00:14:56] Tatjana: Pills and whatever else we give people that are overworked and, and overstressed, maybe we just need to send them on a herbalism course. Get them out in, for, in the forest or you know, wherever. Wherever, you know, or even that little patch in an urban environment where there is an opportunity to grow two little three little herbs in a box somewhere.
[00:15:15] Daniéle: Absolutely. Absolutely. It's very attainable, I think. And it's important to note that there's, there are reasons why we've lost this knowledge, and. When I say we, I mean like collective weeks. It was much more known before. There are definitely certain people, certain, you know, communities that still have this knowledge very intact, but I think I'm talking more about like, you know, Western or westernized and industrialized countries.
[00:15:42] Tatjana: I am wondering if that loss of knowledge. I mean, I know in, in, um, many places, right? The, the, the witch hunt, you know, that, that women were witches. very, often these women were herbalist. They were healers, they were midwives, they were community caretakers, and, you know, those that were in power, um, threatened by what these women knew about their environment.
[00:16:06] Daniéle: that's very real, right? That's, you, you kill people, you kill their knowledge. It's as simple as that. and I think, you know, herbalism, knowing how to heal yourself, this knowledge, it threatens capitalism, it threatens consumerism, it threatens, you know, involvement and dependency on the systems that we currently have.
[00:16:29] Daniéle: And so that's really important to know why, why this knowledge is not perhaps as accessible or why people, you know, are drawn to it, but then kind of like, no, let me just go get this, you know, ointment at, at the store because I'm not sure that this one is gonna, you know, it's, it's, it's sort of built into our, our current system
[00:16:47] Tatjana: Yeah, there's something about the skepticism of the natural. It, it's so interesting and, it's not just with herbs and food, but there's, there's a sort of, yeah. And I think that, that, that is, you know, uh, centuries of, of a capitalistic, uh, you know, way of being. and, and also this power over that, that nature is just this thing.
[00:17:07] Tatjana: the understanding and the appreciation for No, we are nature, so therefore we need to be in right relationship. And that means having a relationship with, the environment and nature around us.
[00:17:19] Daniéle: Humans are not at the center. We cannot control nature. I think the Earth is telling us that in all the ways.
[00:17:26] Tatjana: Yes. Loud and clear for those that have maybe not heard it yet, it's out there. Yeah. absolutely. Yeah. And I mean, COVID was a prime example of that, Right. It was, it felt like mother nature's wake up call in many, many ways. Um, and the sky's cleared and plants thrived because lawns, lawns weren't getting mowed and, you know, stuff wasn't getting sprayed on things.
[00:17:47] Tatjana: I know you also, uh, talk a little bit about in your work this reckoning with Land Justice. What, what are some of the things that people need to be mindful of here? I.
[00:17:56] Daniéle: Yeah, this is a big topic. being in relationship with. Our environment being means being in relationship with land. This, to me, necessitates an understanding consciousness and speaking out against and for and with, people who have been stripped of their land. Like we talk about land, we have to understand colonialism and how colonialism is still. Playing a role in removing people from their land and in, you know, disrupting that relationship. I mean, if you disrupt that relationship, you know, for me, coming from a diaspora culture, it's like we've, you know, we apparently took seed, ru seeds, Ruda from Spain, brought them to, you know, Turkey to plant, and then they ca went to Cuba and then they went to New York, you know, and then, you know, we saw our. Latin American neighbors also using the same plant, which is, you know, so people do take their medicine with them, but also like the, the conversation is incomplete if we're not talking about how people are being forcibly removed from their land, which is happening in many places right now. Um, and that needs to be part of the conversation.
[00:19:08] Daniéle: There's a lot of herbalism that doesn't acknowledge that a lot of herbal, Practitioners or schools that don't acknowledge that. And I think that's actually really missing. 'cause it's only telling part of the story. It's only, um, interacting with part of what's there.
[00:19:23] Daniéle: Like herbalism means connection with the land. Therefore we need to understand and also be in right relationship with land justice. And if we have, an undisrupted relationship with our land. That doesn't mean that everything's fine in hunky dory. There are people in different parts of the world who are their connection with their land is being disrupted, their land is being poisoned because of, you know, chemical like weapons and bombs and things like that, like that, that 1000% needs to be a part of the conversation.
[00:19:53] Tatjana: I think that's very, very, very true on every single level. and, and you know, that's maybe not surprising, but we very often talk about, uh, you know, this sort of human-centric piece. And, and I think the reality is that where there is, I. Conflict where there is disruption, where there is use of, pesticides all over, you know, uh, in many places, you know, you kind of fly over land and there's these massive machines spraying all this toxic malarkey all over. But we are committing continuous eco side.
[00:20:24] Tatjana: And I, I think there's more than just buying organic, uh, tomatoes or eggs at your local supermarket. I think there is a, a strongest, uh, stance to maybe take in terms of insisting on not continuing to poison the land. You know, there are pesticides that were developed for, for chemical warfare, after the second World War that are sold in gardening centers.
[00:20:48] Tatjana: Without naming names. that is a total mystery to me that that's not banned because we know they are forever chemicals, Right. They get into the system of the plants, the DNA of the plants. They get into our DNA. So, you know, if we wanna heal and we do, the planet, we have to stop those practices.
[00:21:06] Tatjana: And permaculture is a perfect, and I know you have knowledge of this as well, is a perfect example of, of how we can recuperate the land if we listen to what nature needs.
[00:21:16] Daniéle: a lot of permaculture principles and practices are principles and practices that come from a lot of that are in a lot of like indigenous ways of being and from indigenous peoples and communities of like. Okay. Yeah. I'm gonna, you know, plant my, my squash next to my corn and then my beans and then, you know, they'll have a trellis and this will do that and provide shade for like, right.
[00:21:37] Daniéle: That, that comes from an, and I think we can sometimes get lost in like, oh, perma, you know, it's the new thing. It, it's not new, it's old and it's very old. It's actually very ancient, which is why there's so much wisdom in it. Um, and understanding and recognizing that it comes from indigenous. Cultures and peoples and like, how are you supporting the, you know, for us in the United States here, you know, how, how are we supporting the indigenous peoples of the land that we are currently living on as colonial, like settler, you know, colonialism is, is still in full effect. So I think it's important to, to give. Uh, give credit where, where credit is due also.
[00:22:19] Daniéle: And I think it also speaks to, you know, this sort of resurgence and interest in, in permaculture as, as ancient wisdom. This need right now in our, our current time to look back in order to move forward in a better way, in a way that is less harmful, um, to the planet, to people around us to.
[00:22:41] Daniéle: You know, less harmful in so many ways. Um, and I, I think there's, we're living in a time where there's really a need for that looking back, relearning. And I call it a relearning because as
[00:22:51] Daniéle: you mentioned like, it's, it's, as we talked about, it's, it's so profound when you start, relearning the herbs, but to relearn this, this ancient wisdom, this knowledge that has, you know, many people have tried to suppress in so many ways and have. You know, we're successful in some ways and not successful in other ways 'cause it's still here in order to create a better future, in order to move forward in a more balanced whole way.
[00:23:18] Tatjana: And I, I think, and I absolutely agree with you, and I I think it's really interesting too, I think you said 40% of kind of commercial medications are actually. Derived out of the intelligence of what plants would do. And, and I always think about that. and, and especially because I, I also lived in Brazil for a little while.
[00:23:37] Tatjana: Imagine all the stuff we haven't discovered, Imagine the plants that we haven't come to know or be in relationship with that has a cure for whatever. also I wonder if, what we also need, uh, in order to protect, you know, kind of bigger, uh, ecosystems, um, plants and, and animals, understanding the relationship that non-human, life, you know, so plants and, and so fauna and flowers, right? And, and, and animals. What's, what's the relationship that they have?
[00:24:08] Tatjana: Right, because we also know that, um, you know, animals in the forest or birds or, you know, they transport seeds or, you know, monkeys do as well. There's, there's this whole web of collaboration and connection that actually makes it thrive, a thriving environment, and there's something there that we haven't quite learned yet, or we need to relearn at least. Right?
[00:24:32] Tatjana: So. Herbal remedies, if someone's listening to the show and thinking, Ooh, that really sounds interesting, I would love to get involved. What are some, what's some advice from you, Danièle, in terms of where, where can people sort of pick up something or, you know, uh, start the journey in a, in a way that doesn't feel. Um, too overwhelming.
[00:24:51] Daniéle: well, there's, there's kind of two ways you can go. I think. One is to start coming into consciousness about what are the herbs that you actually do use on a daily basis. Do you drink chamomile tea? Do you use rosemary in your cooking and perhaps starting there and, you know, looking like, feeling into, how do those things make you feel, especially if you're drinking chamomile tea?
[00:25:16] Daniéle: I think that's, you know, eating rosemary is maybe a little bit more obscure, but, um, but, you know, drinking, drinking herbs, um, I think can, you can, you know, have a mindful moment and be like, okay, how does this make me feel? And then going to look it up. And on Google, if you put the word herbal. Herbalist or herbalism before your Google search, you'll find herbalism stuff.
[00:25:36] Daniéle: If you don't, you'll find all the, you know, academic studies, which will tell you nothing works. Um, so, and the other route is find an herbs shop near You you might be surprised at how close it is. You might pass it every day and have no idea, and just go in and just explore. You know, there's. Herbs are inviting us into a relationship with them.
[00:26:02] Daniéle: Like I, I really do believe that, um, now more than an ever, or it's okay, let's take the now more than ever part out. But
[00:26:10] Daniéle: I do believe that herbs are inviting. They're calling us back into relationship with them. And, you know, there's a certain, I don't know when, when I'm, you know, learning or working with herbs, there's sometimes.
[00:26:24] Daniéle: You know, for example, when I'm making, I make herbal tea on a daily basis, depending on how I'm feeling, how people in my household are feeling, how can we sort of, are we really stressed out? Okay, let's take the tulsi, like make some tulsi tea with some other things in it, you know, for, anyway. Um, but herbs have a way of calling us into relationship with them, right? Of like, I think like let's, like let's commune, you know? Yeah.
[00:26:46] Tatjana: Yes. Yeah,
[00:26:47] Tatjana: Yeah, that exactly.
[00:26:49] Daniéle: Let's commute and then start paying attention to how it, it feels, in your body and how it impacts your day. Um, and then kind of go from there. I, I also, I have, um, some, uh, guides on my website, uh, very for, you know, common herbs that you can easily plant, that you already might already have in a garden ecosystem that you currently have, or, you know, herbs for stress resilience. And nervous system regulation. So those guides were designed for kind of self-education. Um, and so those are on my website,
[00:27:22] Tatjana: I will make sure to, to make links to that. And, when you said earlier that we've co-evolved with herbs, uh, that really resonates for me. How do we relearn to be in relationship with herbs in a way that isn't extractive but that is also respectful?
[00:27:40] Daniéle: Well, it's understanding this interdependent relationship that we have with nature, which includes herbs, which includes anything that we grow, which includes any way that we interact with our, our environment, Like I harvest from this rosemary plant, for example. On a regular basis. I also take care of it by feeding the soil.
[00:28:00] Daniéle: We have this oak tree. I live in Oakland. There are a lot of oak trees. I have this oak tree that, you know, carries. Its leaves, the wind carries its leaves, and it settles on the rosemary bush. I go and I clean those off and I take those off. So the rosemary, you know, doesn't have as much of this burden and like, you know, foreign elements.
[00:28:17] Daniéle: It's a way of like taking care of the plant. So understanding this reciprocal relationship that it's like not just, okay, I'm gonna grow this and then like take it, but how can I grow it, take care of it, help it like support its environment so that it thrives, and also leave it alone when it's time to rest.
[00:28:36] Tatjana: Yes, exactly It isn't summer 12 months of the year, there is also a rest period, a winter period.
[00:28:43] Daniéle: which has so much wisdom in it. You know, we're as humans, like we're mammals also, you know, like our days get shorter and everyone I know is longing for more rest within their work life and within their life. but yeah, so just, you know, taking those lessons and, and just taking them in, seeing how you can apply them to your life as well.
[00:29:04] Tatjana: Yeah. There's so much wisdom there. And I, and I think what I, what I'm sensing as, as we're talking is also allowing ourselves to trust the natural processes, That nature has, and I think for a lots of people, you know, this, this sort of, and that's very much based in, in a sort of capitalistic mindset of, um, you know, we must be active, we must be doing stuff. It's, summer all the time, and it's go, go, go. And, and there's nothing wrong with action on its own. But actually trusting that a slower pace, a listening sensing. Being in relationship with, I mean, that's embodiment as well is, is that we're actually, you know, participating, on an equitable basis with, with the environment around us.
[00:29:49] Tatjana: I think a lot of people are either not aware or maybe even worried what's gonna happen when I do that? You know, I mean, I've had people in my practice who think they're gonna fall apart if they take three weeks off. And I'm like, no, sweetheart. You will blossom. Yes, you will probably get a little antsy to begin with because your nervous system is wired and you have all this stress hormone stuff bouncing about in your body and having a soft drink, carbonated soft drink is not gonna help you.
[00:30:18] Tatjana: But maybe going for a walk on the beach with bare feet and eating some local berries is gonna do the trick. Right.
[00:30:24] Tatjana: And I, I don't know that we always trust that enough. And I know that there are also people living in environments where that is not read readily accessible,
[00:30:32] Tatjana: which is that kind of indu injustice of, of how things are allocated, right?
[00:30:37] Daniéle: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's about releasing control, right?
[00:30:41] Daniéle: And, and this concept and understanding, which I feel like is much more alive in countries in the quote unquote global south, that like, we don't control nature. Like nature. There will be a storm and if the, you know, streets are flooded. Okay. Yeah. If you really want to, you can take your brain jacket and your rain boots.
[00:31:00] Daniéle: Bye. Bye. Think that nature's telling you to stay at home
[00:31:03] Daniéle: and
[00:31:03] Daniéle: take a break.
[00:31:05] Tatjana: and. the water would be so high that you can't drive either. So Yes. Don't go anywhere. Yeah, Yeah. Yeah.
[00:31:11] Tatjana: And sensing into the, you know, I think weather is such an interesting thing. Um, I'm one of those, uh, people that actually, you know, I, I love it when the weather's nice and sunny and, and, and, you know, winter can be relatively dark and wet in Denmark, but there's also something about quiet rain.
[00:31:27] Tatjana: Or a blustery autumn day where you can really feel the chill on your cheeks here. Um, and, and if we know how to dance with that to kind of vibe with that, I
[00:31:39] Tatjana: think there's so much wisdom there.
[00:31:40] Daniéle: And it's interesting, it's, I, yeah, I think it really does take a releasing of, of control and, and trust really. Which I think is, is absent in a lot of ways in our societies. You know, I don't know. There's like, it's very hard to do because there are very real demands of daily life and, you know, having enough money to do x, y, and z. And also like how, you know. In interacting with herbs, I've learned more trust. I've learned like trust that I'll be guided more or trust that, I'll know what I need in that herbal teacup on a daily basis. You know, that's very simple, but
[00:32:20] Tatjana: Love that. I love that sort of almost sort of soft guiding of, of the act of herbalism and the plants that you're surrounding yourself with. That that's actually a, a, you know, learning about trust. And, and Daniella, I know you're an educator, uh, quite the force of an educator, right? Um, what is it that we need to teach our children or anyone? ' cause it feels like this should be a standard part of the curriculum, quite frankly.
[00:32:45] Daniéle: I'm trying, Tatiana, I'm trying,
[00:32:46] Tatjana: I know, I know. And I'm rooting for you.
[00:32:50] Daniéle: It's very difficult. 'cause, you know, schools have curriculum and, you know, standards. I've been in that world. Um, but I've also encountered, you know, a, like a, a fear, like a liability with the herbs. What if, you know, which I think safety with herbs is absolutely, really important. So it's really important to look at the safety indications and think about what medications you might be taking, all of that.
[00:33:11] Daniéle: And also there are common herbs that like will, there are low risk herbs, right? That I, I think that. You know, I think about lavender, for example, and how lavender is so calming and there's a lot of school gardens here in the United States and how kids knew that lavender was calming.
[00:33:30] Daniéle: They could, you know, go over to the lavender plant and like smell it when they're feeling anxious or, you know, if. Rosemary helps with memory. You know, they, they could like take some and, and have it near them when they're studying for the test and then when they're taking the test and you know, just how that can bring us back to wholeness.
[00:33:48] Daniéle: We're also facing a mental health crisis worldwide and like, you know, very prevalent in young people and, and young kids. And because there's so much uncertainty, there's so much going on. Um. And I really, really, really believe that herbs need to be at the core of the curriculum. because it, it can really, it can bring us into our bodies, they, it can bring us into more wholeness, into more alignment, into more appreciation for our environment into understanding this interdependent relationship into understanding who we are, that we actually belong to the earth.
[00:34:22] Daniéle: Um, therefore the way we treat the earth is actually the way that we're treating ourselves. And
[00:34:27] Tatjana: Yeah. Isn't that interesting? Right.
[00:34:29] Tatjana: Yeah.
[00:34:30] Tatjana: It's a total mirror
[00:34:30] Daniéle: Yeah. And
[00:34:31] Daniéle: just this,
[00:34:32] Daniéle: just this sense of belonging Right. Is like, so needed in today's world as well. Of once, once I like kind of started down this path and I was like, oh, you know, and this was kind of heightened or like right before and during covid and lockdown.
[00:34:49] Daniéle: Oh. Like. We, we belong, like I belong to this environment that's around me. It really, really helped, helped my sense of isolation. It really helped me have a sense of grounding beneath me at all times no matter what I go and do and like, uh, face a scary thing or have a difficult conversation or, you know, have some challenge like you to know that. Someone's got you. And it's not someone, it's like to know that the Earth has got you is like, wow.
[00:35:21] Tatjana: I love what you've just said and, and I wonder if that's also part of why it's so important to have it taught right in, in, in various curriculums. Um, and I think especially for children. 'cause that's where the open mind and the genius sits.
[00:35:35] Tatjana: Um, but maybe also as people grow up and, and get older And I wonder if that's especially important because we're not just. We're not just learning about herbs, we're learning about weather, we're learning about soil, right? We're learning about geography. We're learning about, uh, uh, you know, sand, rock, sediment, uh, biology.
[00:35:56] Tatjana: We're learning about proportions, we're learning about, communication, to your point, trust, right? So there's a psychological curriculum there as well. There's so much embedded in this relationship with earth. That could be such a beautiful thing for anyone to spend more time in. I know I have a tiny little garden, uh, where I live, but you know, going out in that wet grass and, and smelling the, the, the plants and the herbs, um, oh, that'll cure anything. Just about pretty much, right. That there's that sense of it's okay. Right. It's okay to be here.
[00:36:30] Daniéle: Nature is medicine. And how many people have you talked to that feel that they can be completely themselves in nature? And not have to siphon off a part of themselves because they have to be professional or be put together or be this, or be that. You know, there's an acceptance that it's such a gift really. It's such an acceptance that nature offers us. Um, that's really beautiful. And you know, I know nature sometimes can be harder to access for certain people than others, but there's ways, you know, I just did a post about this. There's. In Europe, there's linden trees lining city at suburban streets. I mean, and Linden is like, you know, one of the, one of the big ones for a nervous system and can really help calm us down and nourish our bodies in so many different ways. It's not just in Europe, it's in other places too, but,
[00:37:21] Tatjana: And, and I remember also the first time I heard the term, uh, gorilla, uh, illa gardening. Um, and I thought, what's that? And, and then I realized that, uh, hashtag disclaimer, my sister practices this, um, where she lives. And, and it is literally, you know, this, this group of women that have decided that the neatly manicured green.
[00:37:43] Tatjana: Surfaces that serves nobody. Uh, you know, industrially, industrialized grass, um, needed a good sprinkling of mixed herbs. Um, so there's this whole kind of local movement of, you know, sprinkling stuff and planting things. And, um, and I remember visiting Amsterdam, you know, and, and people are planting stuff all over.
[00:38:05] Tatjana: Uh, wherever there's a tree with a little bit of soil or, or these sort of boxes on the sides of, you know, uh, where they park bikes or whatever. So, so there's, there seems to be more to it also. Right? There's a sort of reclamation or a, a kind of getting, getting back to, hey, we're allowed to be here and, and in that we need to be surrounded by things that nurture us.
[00:38:27] Tatjana: So Danièle, where, where do you go next with, with this, I know that you have different activities and you're still learning and diving into all of this beautiful world. What, what's next for you on this journey?
[00:38:39] Daniéle: Well, I am currently working on some programming, and you know, I've decided to slow my pace a bit. I think at for, you know, I'm an Aries, so I'm like, let's go. And I love summertime, but I'm, you know, sort of, I've just come back from vacation, so I'm taking a little bit of a, a step back to kind of reevaluate. Um, I am working on, um, I, I've taught some Sephardic herbalism, uh, workshops and I'm working on a, um, a Jewish herbalism. A three part workshop with a, actually a very distant cousin of mine who's also an herbalist.
[00:39:15] Tatjana: So it's in
[00:39:15] Tatjana: your family.
[00:39:16] Daniéle: It's apparently it's in my family. Yes. I think it's in a lot of our families we don't realize. But, um, but yeah, I'm, I'm working on, um, some programming to kind of see, uh, what makes the most sense, what's most resonant. Um, and I'm going to, uh, you know, hopefully have some, some offerings, um, in the new year, um, if not a little bit before.
[00:39:36] Daniéle: I also, uh, while I'm working on that, uh, programming, um, I do have, um, one-to-one or group coaching. Um, open and available. Um, if people, uh, are interested or wanna sign up, you know, feel free to get in touch with me if you're wanting to deepen your connection to nature. Uh, learn more about herbs, the ones that are around you, you know, what they can be good for, how you can, you know, deepen this interdependent relationship with them, um, that, that is currently open. So. Feel free to get in touch if you're
[00:40:06] Tatjana: Yeah. that's lovely. And we'll make sure to have all the details, um, in the show notes as well. Um, and, and I, I think that that's a really interesting approach as well. Both the one-to-one. Because it's such, it's very often a very personal thing, you know, how can, how can we individually connect? And, but also, I know you do community work and, and kind of more class, classroom or, or workshop based, uh, work as well.
[00:40:31] Tatjana: I'm wondering about the intersection with other sort of civil, civil, uh, action movements or, or community movements. It feels as you're talking that there's a, there's a connection with. Other groups that are taking action for a healthier environment in terms of, there's a herbalism, there's permaculture, there's stuff on kind of reclaiming architecture that, that needs saving instead of building new, you know, kind of community libraries, community kitchens, community. What's your sense of, of where herbalism can, can also be this social change model or part of that social change?
[00:41:08] Daniéle: Yeah, so I think the, the first piece is that herbalism and herbs has a place in all of this. A lot of people don't know that herbs can actually be very beneficial to your garden or garden ecosystem. In many ways, they attract pollinators, they, you know, can contribute to a sensory garden. There are some that are really good for the roots of other plants. So that's the first piece.
[00:41:31] Daniéle: And then I think the second piece, pertaining to how herbalism can, you know, contribute to a social change model. I, I think a lot of the ethos of herbalism, invites us into a different way of being. Um, and like I said before, everybody I know is burnt out and wanting something different, wanting more balance, more ease, more rest, um, which can be really difficult, um, within the financial constraints of, you know, inflation and housing costs going up and food costs going up. Um, so it's a challenge for sure and not completely accessible to everyone, or not even accessible to, to most people right now, but I, I do think that herbalism and a connection back to nature can invite a different way of being. I think in order for social change to happen and it's happening, I think two things need to happen.
[00:42:21] Daniéle: One, we need to start moving differently in our existing structures, which I think a lot of people are doing. Um, but making different decisions, setting firmer boundaries with how much we work, you know, wherever possible, or making different decisions or changing the expectations. Um, and then two, creating new things.
[00:42:41] Daniéle: And I, I think really like the, the ethos of herbalism, the philosophy behind herbalism, that sort of what herbalism invites. and can teach us, can, can provide a lot of guidance for, for making change in both of these ways.
[00:42:56] Tatjana: it feels very much, uh, as if there are very strong elements of, you know, being, being in service of nature, right? Being in service of, uh, relationship and, and, you know, co co-evolving, co-creating, uh, cohabiting. and it also seems to me that there are some fantastic lessons there in terms of. When can we do things together that doesn't involve exchange of money? When can we swap plants, swap knowledge, swap, uh, whatever. Yeah. exactly. Medicines, right? so many, so many areas of our lives, we have come to rely on external entities, systems to tell us how to do things or, or, you know, decide what's allowable. Um, and I think that sort of, you know, there's the, there's a place for, for economy. Of course there is, but, but there's also something really wonderful about. Maybe just, the women that we know locally getting together to decide to do something. I feel inspired now.
[00:43:56] Daniéle: I love it.
[00:43:57] Tatjana: I have a friend who's a gardener and, and she has that mindset of, of just, you know, everything is a co-created, uh, co-deliver. You know, um, mutual interdependent relationship. And, and it's both the, the women that know each other, um, and it's also the, the plants.
[00:44:15] Daniéle: Yeah. 'cause the way forward is collective. I mean, 1000%, it's a, you know, communal gardens, communal land. I mean, yeah. Swapping out, oh, you have, you know, this exchange, you have knowledge about this. I have this remedy. How about I give you this
[00:44:32] Tatjana: Exactly. Yeah. And I bet it's out there. Just, you, know, we just need to, you know. nudge it forward.
[00:44:37] Tatjana: So, Danièle, if people are interested, um, in, in getting to know more about you and your work, just remind us where they can go and I'll make sure to put it in the notes as well. I.
[00:44:46] Daniéle: Yeah. Uh, well, you can go to my website, that's www.yervika.com. Um, I'm on Instagram at Y dot Herbs, and that's Yervika with a K. And I'm on Substack as well, but you know, if you go to my website, you'll see all the information about different services I provide and how to get in touch and you know how to find me on the socials and all of that.
[00:45:08] Tatjana: Wonderful. And before we close, what is your all time favorite herbal tea?
[00:45:13] Daniéle: That's such a hard question. My altar favorite, I've been really lead. I mean, Rosemary is one of my, precious, precious, or it's, grows with a Mediterranean and it, I mean, I also live in a Mediterranean climate here in Northern California. And so I grew up with it all over the place. And it's a carative, which means that it's helpful for digestion.
[00:45:35] Daniéle: Um, I've been traveling a lot recently and I, when I first came back just to. You know, reregulate, I really relied on rosemary. Rosemary is also very grounding. to me it, you know, the way that it grows, it's like, it grows like very bushy, very prolifically. And mine, at least my, the plant that I have, that I'm actually looking at right now, it, it, it's like down, it grows down, but then it grows up. So it's sort of like rooted down, but then also reaching up for the sky. So it has a very grounding presence and to drink it in herbal tea is, is really lovely as well.
[00:46:09] Tatjana: I'm gonna have to try that. I have a rosemary bush that for a few years, looked a little bit forlorn and this year is. Quite the plant. Uh, it's, it's definitely demanding its place and, and I have not tried making tea. So that's a, that's a call to action, uh, for me and anybody that wants to come and taste the tea. Um, so thank you for that. I appreciate that. Yeah.
[00:46:31] Daniéle: Yeah. Try it after dinner.
[00:46:32] Tatjana: Yes. Yeah. that sounds like a good idea. Absolutely. Alright, Thank you so much. Danièle. That was super interesting.
[00:46:40] Daniéle: Thank you so much, Tatiana, for having me and for this inspiring conversation. I really, really enjoyed it as well.
[00:46:47] Tatjana: Thank you for listening to this episode of The Human Greenhouse. I hope that Danièle inspired you to look more closely into herbalism. You can subscribe to this podcast wherever you normally listen to podcasts, and, uh, feel free to sign up to our mailing lists that is on the website, which is thehumangreenhouse.com. You can also send me a message there. I'd love to hear from you and I look forward to you coming back to listen to the next episode of this show. Thank you.