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We're going behind the scenes to see and understand modern agriculture, because no matter whether you're in it or not, you probably don't know all the pieces to just how incredible, diverse and multi-layered agriculture is. We do this by uncovering the real stories, experiences and voices of modern agriculture.
Oli Le Lievre 0:02
G'day. Welcome back to the humans of agriculture podcast. As I always say, I'm so grateful to each of you for tuning in. Now, if you don't follow the humans of ag podcast, hit follow on your favourite podcast app. If you want to give us a review, we'd love to know. What do you love about it? And what would you like us to start to cover? What are some of those stories that you'd love to see us going and finding? We're getting towards the tail end of our series with the Syngenta growth award winners. And this week we're heading across the ditch to New Zealand to chat with their special trade envoy, and farmer Hamish ma Hamish farms alongside his parents and brother and he has just such an interesting and refreshing outlook on the landscape of New Zealand agriculture. Now I know that lots and lots of you listened to our episodes all the way to the end, but this week, there is a special little feature at the end. When asked Hamish what is proudest moment was in his career, he shares the story of a young fella called burgers, who approached him several years ago, and asked Hamish if he could teach him how to farm. Now it's not every day, the questions like that come. And I think amongst all the different things that Hamish has done the fact that this is his proudest and most special achievement really speaks volumes for what it is now 30 is a story doesn't finish there so you better listening. We'd love to know what you're well welcome back to the humans of agriculture podcast. We're continuing our conversations with different Syngenta growth award winners and this one's coming to us from across the ditch. Hamish ma might he has it all going over there? Well,
Speaker 1 1:34
we're in the middle of summer here. It's been hot for us where I live you know day after day of over 30 degrees which the last two summers haven't been their way but this year El Nino is certainly kick going on January and it's it's good. You got like the heat there. Well, I'm an arable farmer predominantly. So I need summer in summertime to help me get out or help us get our crops harvested and and thanks. Yeah,
Oli Le Lievre 1:57
I'm really interested. I was reading your bio that literally within the first probably 10 words it had the Hamish is an arable farmer involved in the family business. Can you just explain to me like what is arable farming? And and I know that sounds like a really silly question. But I'd say not many people kind of describe themselves as an arable farmer.
Speaker 1 2:15
That is a great question. Because me we use that term quite generically, when if you look it up in the dictionary, arable arable simply means land that can be played. So you know, we use that term meaning the farmers that grow crops, but the true definition of it is we're farming land that's able to be cultivated. And so you know, there's many different facets and definitions of arable farming but for me an operation here, production of grains, wheat, oats, barley, small seeds, so grass seed clovers, we grow process peas for freezing, and we run cattle and sheep, but we predominantly arable farming, and the you on the farm where you grew up as well. Yep, so I'm here with my brother, and as wife and family, and I'm here with my wife and family and my mum and dad, we're still here. We're first generation farming this particular piece of dirt man sisters came here from Scotland and 1870 1873 was subdivided off what was quite a big station in New Zealand terms. And you we've been here ever since. Can
Oli Le Lievre 3:22
you explain to me a little bit about I guess your your connection to the land, but maybe the region in which you farm with and and I don't know if I'm jumping ahead here. But when I was in New Zealand a couple years ago, I loved how people talked about their connection to the land, but it was in a few different ways. I'd be interested to understand from you here.
Speaker 1 3:40
That's a good question. And it's probably no right or wrong answer. New Zealand unlike Australia, you know, you can drive 20 minutes and the landscape is completely different. So we live an hour south of Christchurch, and land under the Southern Alps. So we're on the right at the top edge of the Canterbury Plains betrayal, 100 mil rainfall 450 metres above sea level. And we live in a nice part of the world. But it's a very challenging part of the world. Our weather comes at us from all directions. So we get snow from the south and we get gale winds from the west, the hot dry when the camps pass Australia then comes on and blows through our place that makes farming here quite challenging, coupled with altitude and rainfall. But my connection to the land really comes back to the you know, thinking about the history of the people that have gone before us and the legacy that they have left in terms of the trees and the fencing and the you know, the infrastructure that have been put in place and wouldn't carry on the respect that they had for the land and farming it in a way that you know, if you think about when the people first came here and there was no infrastructure there was no no improvements and they learned how to get on with nature or get on with the environment and farm and assist in a sustainable manner, you know, we've got so much more technology. Now that, you know, helps us do all these things. But actually, you have to farm in a way that fits in with the particular climate and make particularly the area that you're in, you know, my connection with the lamb. There's the combination of a respecting the people that have gone before us, but be totally respecting the constraints that we have here in a way that hopefully mean some of my children and my brother's children will be able to, you know, carry on doing what we've done, we're doing. I love
Oli Le Lievre 5:30
that you mentioned your children and your brother's children thing, which are actually implemented kind of in our, in our business after spending some time in New Zealand last year was that talk? Well, I guess, yeah, the recognition of legacy and that reference to kind of children's children. And I think, as you said, you can have a fifth generation farmer, like the ancestors who have gone before you have left it in the place that it's sustainable into the future. And I think in farming, when we look at kind of that generational sustainability of not just a productive business, that allows people to have a livelihood, in terms of the care for the natural environment as well that your children, but also your children's children, really is a mark of true sustainability,
Speaker 1 6:06
you will, you know, it's your home, isn't it in, you know, I always tell people, you know, we've got a garden around our house, but we've got a 500, he'd be a garden, you know, beyond that, too. And so, you know, it's just an extension of our farm is an extension of where we live, we like to, well, I like to, you know, treat it all the same way. So, you know, I think when you're in your 20s, often think about this, when you're in your 20s, and you got your work, futures in front of you and everything, nothing's a problem, and everything's great, then, you know, the whole world in front of you. And you think about all these things. And then, you know, the older you get, all of a sudden, you start thinking about your children and what they're gonna end up doing. And while I said before, about thinking about the people that have gone before us, and how important, you know that we take forward the lessons that they learned totally.
Oli Le Lievre 6:50
Now, what was your influence? Why did you decide to pursue agriculture and go down that pathway? Obviously, you studied at Lincoln University, which so many agriculturalists in New Zealand do that? What was it that drew you in?
Speaker 1 7:02
Well, I think I'm one of those people, like a lot of farmers that, you know, follow, we follow their father around. And that's just what you're going to do one day, I went away and was an agronomist for a wee while and as you say, went to Lincoln. And I've done a few things, but in the back of all of that was always that one day I was I was going to be farming the apearance never pushed us into agriculture. And in fact, they they said to us a couple of times, are you sure this is what you want to do? You know, there's a lot of things you can go and do in your life, you don't have to come home to the farm here. But you know, it's just, it was just me, for whatever reason, I just wanted to carry on doing what was done. And we, you know, I spent not so much my brother because he's a little bit younger, but I spend a lot of time with my grandfather. And you know, it's just what I wanted to do. It's
Oli Le Lievre 7:54
pretty special. Tell me about getting involved outside the farm gate, you're involved with the federated farmers, you are the special envoy for New Zealand, which we can kind of talk to that, that involvement outside the farm gate, what were How did you actually get started? And and why?
Speaker 1 8:08
Well, I've always been a guy that likes the interaction with people. And I guess if you ask any of my friends, they'll probably tell you the same thing. And Emax door, Hamish will be there somewhere. You know, I just I just enjoy the interaction with people. And I enjoy the the mapping out of things and working for common purpose and all that kind of thing. And I was very lucky when I left university, I got a job as an agronomist. And I had a huge client list which sent me around to many different types of farming around New Zealand here. And I've opened my eyes to, you know, a lot of different ways that things can be done a lot of different techniques of things, but also got me in front of a lot of different people. So that when I eventually came home here a few years later, I had quite a network of people or business associates that I'd meet an agronomy role. And I just found my way into small committees for a start, you know, we all end up on a committee somewhere. And then one by one, I found my way onto bigger things that led me on to Nuffield Scholarship, which I did in 2019. Our parents had always been involved in things my father had been there on the school board from the year I started school till the year my sister left so you know, the mom and dad were always very community minded still are very community minded. So they certainly encouraged us to, you know, to go off and do other things. My brother for example, he coaches rugby, and he is the chairman of our local bike club. So we're all doing our way but but you know, I enjoy the off farm stuff because it stimulates my brain and you know, in different ways,
Oli Le Lievre 9:48
and I think it probably makes total sense and maybe unsurprising in in any of the categories that you could have been a growth award winner that you are in the community and people section as a grower given you contributions to your community but also agriculture in New Zealand more broadly,
Speaker 1 10:03
you're it's, it's quite funny that because when I was nominated for that, the Syngenta person that nominated me, we were sitting around their kitchen table, working out which category I should go in, and we formed an ad. And then then we went for sustainability, because of some other things that I've done in terms of agronomy and my Nuffield scholarship and things. And then when it came time to the award night, and suddenly, they said, Oh, we have changed a few people's category around. And I didn't think it would be me. But anyway, we we over we went through the sustainability section, and Hamish didn't get anywhere. And I thought, well, that's fine, because the other people in the room are far more deserving than I was. And then in the community, and people won, I got the award, and I couldn't believe it, having heard all the other people that were nominated and their stories, you know, to think that I'd got the that award, I was, you know, blown away. And remember, when I went out onto the stage, you know, I had a few things lined up in my head that I would say, in terms of the sustainability story and, and things by actually with loss for words, in terms of, you know, what I should say, is sort of valedictory, that's the right word. Or, you know, thank you. So I was very, very humbled, but very, very surprised at the same time. And
Oli Le Lievre 11:21
it was so interesting being there on the night, because I know he had you different categories. And you're obviously you're in then into your your shot in the different categories. But so many people were kind of speechless, and I think, well, yeah, I'd be interested in you. What did you take away? You got to spend the day with a whole bunch of different people from all different backgrounds in the day definitely of the awards? What did you kind of take away? And maybe what was for the people who weren't? I guess, fortunate enough, which is all of our listeners pretty well? What did you kind of take away? What did agriculture look like in that room, and who were the kind of humans that you were spending the day with? Well, I
Speaker 1 11:54
think the word you would use the, if you were to sum all that up in one word, it's just diversity. And you can split that word diversity up into two sections, and it's the diversity of people. And you know, all of these different people so skilled at what they do, working in different things within their own operations, and their own communities and their, their own ways of doing things. And then but then also the diversity of food that has been produced. And New Zealand and Australia, I was blown away, what some people were doing in terms of, you know, what, what they were producing on their farms and how they were doing it, and the, the challenges they were overcoming and, and in things like, you know, one thing I did think about a lot when reflected on since and, you know, they're actually all trying to do the same things. But we're all in different areas. So we will have to do things in a different way. And we will have to produce things that suit the particular place that we've got. And I sort of come back to what I said earlier on, about our forefathers all worked out what suit is and what didn't. And then we just can't we just carry on respecting that knowledge that they have, and drive forward. But your diversity is that was the thing I took away from all that.
Oli Le Lievre 13:08
Yeah, I totally agree. And you'd get to do, obviously, a Nuffield Scholarship, which we can talk about, but you've done quite a bit of different travel, but this trip, specifically, what is it that you're looking forward to about? I guess, yeah, alongside the different food producers, and also, the cotton producers, that kind of one, what is it that you looking forward to most about that trip to those couple of different areas of Europe,
Speaker 1 13:31
for me, it's the opportunity to have your eyes opened to things that, you know, we're not exposed to in the southern hemisphere. And, you know, both Australia and New Zealand, farming essentially came from Europe, you know, our forefathers generally came, came from Europe came down here bought, they bought the ideas, and we've carried it on. And so a lot of the big tech companies are based up there, a lot of the innovation is happening out there. Huge population and huge market, you know, Europe's population of 450 million people. So they're a very, very important market for both of their countries. And so to have the opportunity to, to go to where it all began, and be out of wherever, you know, a lot of our markets are and see how those two things are aligning, those are the in the opportunity to look at all the all the technology and that you know, to go to some janitors facilities up, there will be really eye opening, I'm sure because, you know, we rely on science these days, we rely on technology to overcome the majority of the problems we have on firm and without the help of company likes and gender. The problems that they saw will just come straight back. So you know, we need them but we also need to understand what they're doing and hopefully get the opportunity to provide a bit of feedback about what we need to
Oli Le Lievre 14:57
absolutely what a awesome I'd have an opportunity to do that.
Unknown Speaker 15:01
Now what I'm interested in
Oli Le Lievre 15:03
what we're talking about, I guess, science, your Nuffield topic, which you mentioned you started in 2019 was looking at the use of glyphosate. Can you tell me more? I guess, why that topic? When you set it out? What were you trying to, I guess, find out and discover. And then maybe we can tell about where they ended up taking you
Speaker 1 15:19
do have no trouble. I'll try and give you a very, very quick synopsis. So essentially, in for me in arable farming, but actually farming in general, in developed countries. We don't think about it, but roundup really dictates the way we do things on the ground that dictates the way we eat our soil dictates the way we plant crops, all of those things. And there was some talk, and 20 Well has been taught for many years that roundup was going to be banned in Europe, and there was real push in New Zealand here for it to be deregistered also. And so for the reasons that I just said about that underpinning a farming system. I wanted to understand why seed off actually, first of all we're wanting to know, could we farm without it? And if you look at my report online, I actually haven't. I've called it can we farm without glyphosate. But it sort of morphed into more of an investigation of what the issues are with Roundup usage, and actually the whole roundup story. And so that topic led me all around the world, looking at farming systems, talking to people leave me to supermarkets, talk to doctors, talk to people, anyone that would listen to me on a plane in an airport on a bus, I started talking to them about what they thought about agriculture, about food production, and then, you know, with his rounder foot, and amongst all that, it's a very, very complicated story. Essentially, the will is two things, the push back against Roundup is really a push back to me, it's always been a better following on from this trip. It's a push back against genetic modification. And, you know, G cropping has really seen the use of Roundup skyrocket through the introduction of Roundup Ready cropping. And in a nutshell, Roundup, ready cropping has been really good in terms of taking bad things out of our food chain. But what it has done is instead of small amounts of Roundup being used in those countries, now we've got large amounts of Roundup being used instead of Atrazine, instead of two, four D, instead of some other things. And so all of a sudden, now we've got round up in our in our food chain. So though, the pushback that we hear from the consumer, but from, from anyone who's pushing back, it's really not against the product, per se. It's really against the way we're using it in a push back against Ge, what roundup did for agriculture. And this is the piece that people don't understand when they talk about we need to ban it, what roundup the day agriculture instantly was by farmers time. So prior, so right around that being introduced, the only way to establish a crop and a clean seed bed, was to cultivate it until the weeds all died. Now in some places, probably not in Australia, where it's dry. But certainly here in New Zealand, that time period could be up to six months. In production around that meant we could spray this herbicide on this afternoon. And we could drill tomorrow morning without any fear of damaging the resulting crops through residual. So instantly, that chemical is bought a six months of production. Now not say six months either way, it'd be a lot less than other parts of the world. But it's that time factor that would really impact agriculture and global food production if we were to lose it. So that's the roundup story. In a nutshell, my my recommendation, if I get to that my recommendation at the end of all that is that we really meat, you know, we depend on roundup for food production. If we want to be responsible, we need to think about the way we're using it. And you know, use it when necessary, adopt some IPM techniques. And by that I mean that means go have a look, make a decision? Do we actually need to do it? Or do we not? Rather than just this is what we've always done. So this is what we'll keep on doing, actually adopt some management for the good of food production and for the prosperity of the product.
Oli Le Lievre 19:16
How challenging was it for you to kind of keep your assumptions to the side and remain really open minded and curious.
Speaker 1 19:22
It was relatively straightforward, because I was genuinely interested when I got to the United States. You know, when I, when I was at Lincoln, we were told that genetic modification was going to be the ruination of humanity. That leader says we're going to grow legs and run out of the glass house and be able to get and then tomatoes, we're going to grow heads and start talking to us. And so when I got to the United States and got in front of some scientists and you know, actually had the story explained to me, you know, all of a sudden the world opens up in front of your eyes and then you take a whole I took a whole lot more global view So I guess I'm not the right way to say it. But a really open view about the system that I was working in, you know, I was thinking about my farm here in New Zealand, and my my small patch of the world. But then when you start thinking globally and that scale, all of a sudden, I was able to step back. And I like to think I'd really independent chain of thought, because I was genuinely interested in what I was hearing.
Oli Le Lievre 20:25
And I think it's so fascinating. And I was reading an article that I think it was when you were announced as the Special Envoy for New Zealand. And it was around this. And it is it's this evolution of agriculture, and obviously, the growth and interest in plant based meat. Yeah, plant based proteins and what that actually means, but it's, it's so interesting, isn't it? And I think, at the beginning, you talked about it, where it was, your hands a fiver, it's the garden around the house, but it's also the 500 hectares around it. And, and in agriculture, there's so much emotion tied to what is happening, that sometimes people view it as a personal attack. And I guess I'd be really interested in when it came to actually presenting this to rooms of farmers and go, maybe the way we're using roundup right now isn't the most responsible or the way it's going to be forever, how was it received.
Speaker 1 21:12
I've spoken with garden clubs and Lions Clubs and farmer groups and everything. And I haven't had one bit of criticism, I did get stalked on Twitter, once telling me that what I was saying is all lies. But you know, I know in myself that it's not generally what I was talking about was very, very well received. And, you know, Roundup has got the biggest label of any, any agricultural chemical on the planet. By that I mean, it's got the widest spectrum of use in terms of its application, you can apply it to just about any lab BC, depending on the rate, but also a whole lot of different applications in terms of conservation tillage, and pre planting and post planting, and desiccation. Now, some of that science was written in the 70s. And it hasn't changed. But you know, we've learned a lot in agriculture and and science and unhealth and a whole lot of different areas. But the label hasn't really been updated. But when you think about it logically, you know, some of it may, you know, we just have to go go forward sensibly. And so when I, I was talking about that, you know, think, again, and we were talking off the air about thinking with the marketing lens on, do you actually have to spray that on, on something that the humans going to eat? You know, those are the kinds of thoughts that you have to think and, you know, I haven't, I haven't seen one, one bit of criticism about it now. And
Oli Le Lievre 22:31
I think it's a really pragmatic way of looking at it, because I think ultimately, it's, and I guess, I've done enough spot spraying and putting chemical on and things like that. And I think coming back to going well, at the end of the day that I'm a consumer and the products that I'm putting in, in my body, I actually want to make sure that it is healthy and safe and nutritious now that we've got the, I guess, the systems or the structures around it, to enable that. But also, what I don't think we have is the platforms or the places for the conversations where people can kind of be curious and go, Oh, well, actually, this is yeah, in the back of my mind, I I am wondering how he's going to impact my health, whether that's accurate or not, but I think he had the chance to actually discuss is probably not there.
Speaker 1 23:12
Yeah, you know, and I think that, you know, consumers can have faith, that the systems are in place generally, that our food is very, very safe. I don't know what your laws are, like in Australia was random our hours and residues and things, you know, we read routinely tasting food and if you act responsibly, that's all right. Okay,
Oli Le Lievre 23:32
there's a couple of other areas I want to discuss with you. We're going to come I think we finished with the young furgus At the end, but let's talk about your role as a special envoy. And how I guess that has come about why it's important for New Zealand agriculture, I guess actually just the New Zealand economy and also what it's like for you to be sitting in that role well
Speaker 1 23:51
for your listeners, in July last year, I was appointed the New Zealand special agricultural trade invoice which in a nutshell means that I am New Zealand's independent representative or farming representative to our government to overseas governments and to any anyone in the supply chain buying our product offshore then why that's important is that the New Zealand 87 or 86% of our very export revenue is dependent on agriculture and so having someone on the ground with dirt under their fingernails that can actually explain you know, what's going on on the ground is very very important it's a very very humbling role meet have been given and it's a role that I don't take lightly there's a lot of wonderful people that have done this role before me so it's pretty special and I you know, we come back to the work I've done off earlier arm it was it was the stepping stone doll at the combination of a mafia with working with federated farmers and some other industry organisation meant that I've, I've got the understanding of what goes on on the ground, but also I've got the understanding of what happens in the background in the network of people on the ground that makes that happen. While we're just up in Europe a wee while ago, and it's before Christmas, actually it was, I flew into Sydney, from Europe. So I was very jet lagged and the Syngenta growth awards, but you know, just about every meeting I went to with government or with farming groups or whatever, we're all very interested in knowing you know, what we're doing on on the ground in farming, about, you know, about ABC about climate change, about sustainability? About, you know, what are you doing to, you know, listen, lower your diesel use, what are you doing, the labour, you know, farm succession, all of those, all those things, which, again, we think we've, we've got an isolation on our own place, our own country, but actually, every country is grappling with the same with the same issues. And so the independent voice of the farmer is very important in most conversations, and to sit alongside the government, people that are doing the regulatory piece on one side, and then to have the producer there, in the meetings, actually explaining how we're implementing the regulation. It's very, very powerful.
Oli Le Lievre 26:15
I can imagine. And, as you mentioned, New Zealand, agriculture. And food is the number one export for you as your whole economy is underpinned by over recent years, there's kind of been some different discussions around I guess, agriculture, from the outside looking in, it feels like the sentiment of, I guess, the QA prod of that. Yeah, I guess you guys have been built off and continue to, I guess, run off the back of agriculture. How is that sentiment? Is it changing? And how are you guys kind of, I guess managing that?
Speaker 1 26:46
Well, yeah, we I mean, we are totally reliant on agriculture, the sentiment? It's an interesting, it's a very interesting question when you talk about sentiment. And I mean, do you do you mean, is there urban rural divide? Is that what you mean by sentiment? Or do you mean sentiment within agriculture?
Oli Le Lievre 27:03
Now, let's talk yeah, the sentiment from outside of ag of the views of New Zealand, I guess, the way that you guys are managing the environment and what you guys are doing?
Speaker 1 27:12
Well, I would say that we're fortunate in New Zealand that we were a lovely temperate Ireland, climate, bliss with good soil, plenty of rain, generally. So, you know, we found the environment, we're not like Europe, or the United States, where you're dealing with extreme heat or extreme cold. Generally, the sentiment from offshore looking at New Zealand as one that's very positive, you know, that being said, we always have to strive to, you know, we kind of sit on your laurels, can we always have to strive to try and do better. So that's the best challenge because one day the rest of the world will catch up with us.
Oli Le Lievre 27:48
Totally. And it's interesting, isn't it? And Australia is similar, where the bulk of our customers are actually the people who were not farming in and around. And and that's an interesting one, isn't it? Where it's kind of, I guess, community sentiment versus consumer sentiment towards what's happening in agriculture. Yeah.
Speaker 1 28:06
And I think when you look at the northern hemisphere now, and particularly in Europe, anyone who's seen the news has seen huge protests, and, you know, in Germany and France are seeing this morning in Spain, Brussels, they've all had, you know, an extreme protest to you know, I saw them different tilling soil on the motorway, and then drilling wheat in there. Oh, yeah, that's pretty extreme. You know, I think that generally, if you spoke to the consumer on the ground here, actually, people are pretty heavy with what we're doing. And that the sentiment generally for agriculture is pretty good. And I would think that you would find the same thing in Australia. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that we're not you know, we're not subsidised. With no protection from government, we have to be efficient, otherwise, we don't survive. And so with efficiency cams, good good management practice. I think, you know, what I see in some other places, is that subsidy leads to just doing what we've always done, which means you get what you've always got. So you know, in in Australia and New Zealand, I think the lack of protection means that we're a lot more agile, and we're a lot quicker to adapt to what a the constraints are in front of us, but be probably what the people want. So that's probably my take on on the sentiment part of it. Yeah,
Oli Le Lievre 29:24
I completely agree on that. Because I think that then comes down to like you're market driven. So you're going to be efficient, you're going to be more profitable if you're going with what actually the market is dictating as opposed to what's probably being pushed back on on you to to grow our practice. So Hamish, I guess, the only other thing I wanted to talk to you about, and I'm keen to hear it from the horse's mouth is this story of young Fergus, and if you can tighten the picture, I guess, from from what I understand you had a young fella come and say, Hey, Mitch, can you teach me to their father?
Speaker 1 29:57
It's almost sort of I'm actually Alex certainly wrote The letter. So this is an interesting thing about LEED awards two. So the first question when I was interviewed about the awards for the judging was, What's your most proudest achievement in agriculture? And, you know, I knew and I was nominated for the sustainability piece. And I thought, well, we'll get to that shortly, I guess. So I said, Well, actually, the proudest thing for me, you know, outside of my own family, is that a young guy when he was 14 years old, wrote me a letter with no connection to Well, Father and worked on farms, and they've been farming in Scotland. But a young guy with no future and be able to be a farmer wrote me a letter posted and said, I'm 14 years old. I'd like to be a farmer, can you teach me and so I rang him up straightaway and said, use your hives. He'd written in this letter, all of all the things that he couldn't do, you know, most people write down what they can do. He wrote down what he could do what he couldn't, you know, things like he couldn't drive a harvester, he couldn't play a paddock, he couldn't spray, all of these things that a 14 year old, couldn't do anyway. But he listed all off all the stuff that he could, that he couldn't do. And so this young boy came to us every day after school, we came on the school bus, my own children are on there, as well. And he would get on the bus, wearing a school uniform, and he'd get off wearing his work boots and shorts. And he everyday took all that stuff to school with them. And he came and I said to him, that I'll give you the best apprenticeship I can give you, but you have to start off, you know, learning to sweep the floor, and learning to take rubbish away. And, you know, learning all those things. And so he did all that. So where are we four years later, he's our number one guy. Now he works for us full time, there's probably only one thing on this farm he can do. And I'll get him to that very shortly. But he's a success story. And, you know, I don't know where he'll end up in his life. But if everyone had the work ethic that he has got, and the attitude that he has got, then there would be no problems in the world. So when they asked me, what was my proudest achievement, I straightaway, talked about Fergus, because, you know, he's a success story. He couldn't be farming. But now he is, and he's involved in our industry in our industry is very lucky to have him today. And I'm hoping in 20 years time, we'll still have him somewhere. I doubt there will be with me, because one day, he will be too good for me. I think
Oli Le Lievre 32:26
that's so cool. You mentioned there's one thing he can't do, what is that?
Speaker 1 32:30
Oh, it's just driving our sprayer. And it's just but I'll get him to that. It's just all around, you know, the complexities of spraying and you know, where you're going and what you're doing and tank hygiene and all that sort of stuff. But you know, he's not 18 yet. So I think that, given a bit of time, we will get him there. So he's with you guys full time now. Viet made it all our grilling last year. By now I drilled to one drill guy, so two fields, and I think he did everything else. That's incredible. So yeah, he's just a machine. And he certainly is from a nice family. The thing that sets him apart is his attitude, and his willingness. And he's just keen to be involved.
Oli Le Lievre 33:11
So help me I've got one question that I ask everyone that comes on the podcast. So I guess my background to preface that I grew up in Sydney, and then came into agriculture. But when I was in Year 10, there was a conversation, I guess, that I had with a mate. And he kind of said, what's the future in farming? Why would you kind of do it? And I think, for me, it was there was a real misunderstanding between friends in Sydney, between careers advisors, they just didn't understand the potential. So when I get the chance, I love asking people that if you had the chance to kind of talk to 16 year old Olli? Or was 16 year olds today about what agriculture actually looks like today and what the opportunities are, what would you say to them?
Speaker 1 33:50
Oh, it's a very complicated question that because to me, you've got to separate the business of farming away from the actual practicalities of farming. And you ask any farmer about the enjoyment of sowing a crop and then watching that field for three or four or five days or 10 days or whatever. And then watching all that, that crop emerge, and then joy you get looking into the rose as the coming up in the morning sun, all the setting sun and all those, all those things, the pride you have and you know, producing a nice line of sheep or some you know, big fat cattle or, you know, or whatever it is that you're growing a tree full of apples or, you know, whatever the situation and agriculture. And I'm sure it's the same in any small businesses, to be honest, not just agriculture, but the enjoyment you get from seeing the fruits of your labours through to the end and through to a product that someone's going to buy and the fact that you can put your name on that and say, well, actually, every tonne of wheat that leaves my place with a little bit of me inside it, me that's the whatever, you know, every kg or sheep or whatever, there's a little bit of the male family involved in that. So there's the pride factor involved. The business factor was a little bit different in the fact that I think that when you talk to people of my father's generation, or who are a bit younger, maybe even, there was a genuine pathway into farming now through land ownership that I'm not quite sure as the, for many people just because of the price of farmland. And so that makes farming and the achievement of being a farm a bit much more difficult because of the capital requirement to get into agriculture. And I would say that at the moment, you know, we're a family family, yes, we've got some debt, because you know, through five generations, there's got to be some firm succession go on. But you know, we're only treading water. We had a really great house last year, one of the best we've ever had, but we're really only standing still. And so there's a real shortage of capital in agriculture that makes that that business part of farming actually quite difficult. But I guess what I'm coming to an all out if you bring the enjoyment part of it, one, one side, in the business pile of it, on the other, somewhere in the middle, was the piece that I call lifestyle. And so if you're going to accept that sometimes it's going to be a struggle, then farming is a wonderful way of life. And it's certainly, you know, I often tell people that farming is the most nine noble occupation in the world seeking donate a medicine, because, you know, we have the responsibility to we never think about this very often. But you know, we have, we have the responsibility of feeding the people in a sustainable and healthy way. And so it's the longevity of the populace, hangs on what we do every day. So it's a really, really exciting industry to be in, and I, you know, you don't have to own a farm to be a farmer. And you don't have to be farming to be involved in agriculture. There's so many people involved in the supply chain and the end value chain. We're desperate for good people. So my message to anyone 16 thinking about doing a qualification of any kind was to have an agriculture because will always be a job.
Oli Le Lievre 36:55
Hamish, thank you so much. I love how you were able to bring those different pieces together and how you explained like and nearly see the sun hitting the rose as they're growing. So thank you so much for sitting down and having a chat.
Unknown Speaker 37:08
Here's my pleasure. I really
Oli Le Lievre 37:10
enjoyed it. And hopefully we get to cross paths in person one day and say G'day, I'd love
Speaker 1 37:15
to hear I'm really enjoy the opportunity to chat to you. And if anyone wants to reach out, you can find me easily. So it's been my pleasure. We'll
Oli Le Lievre 37:23
we'll include a couple of links to you in the show notes and go from there.
Unknown Speaker 37:28
No worries. Thank you very much.
Oli Le Lievre 37:32
Well, that's it for another episode from us here at humans of agriculture. We hope you're enjoying these podcasts. And well if you're not, let us know hit us up at Hello at humans of agriculture.com. Get in touch with any guest recommendations topics, or things you'd like us to talk and get curious about. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. Right subscribe, review it, any feedback is absolutely awesome. And we really do welcome it. So look after yourselves. Stay safe, stay sane. We'll see you next time.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai