Back to Basics with Jim Davies

Before a contact center organization looks to the future, getting back to the basics is the smarter first step. Calabrio's CXO Jim Davies stops by to provide wisdom and common sense advice on how to start at the beginning.

Show Notes

There are so many different technologies out there that are designed to make the CX process better for you and your customers.  But, before you invest in another technology that will make your lives easier, shouldn't you take a moment to evaluate what you currently have and how it can be improved? Sometimes going back to the basics can yield better results than making another move.  Join Jim Davies, CXO at Calabrio as he leverages his vast experience in the contact center industry to guide you through the murky waters of contact center tech. 

What is Working Smarter: Presented by Calabrio?

In this series we will discuss Contact Center industry trends and best practices, as well as sharing success stories and pain points with some of the most innovative professionals in the industry. Join us as we learn and grow together in order to provide world class customer service to each and every one of our clients.

Dave Hoekstra: Welcome to Working
Smarter, presented by Calabrio where

we discuss contact center industry
trends and best practices, as well

as sharing success stories and pain
points with some of the most innovative

professionals in the industry.

We're glad you're joining us to
learn and grow together in order to

provide world-class customer service
to each and every one of our clients.

My name is Dave Stra, product evangelist
here at Collabreo, and my guest

today, I am super excited because
we have the legendary Jim Davies.

Now, Jim Davies recently joined
Collabreo as Chief Experience Officer,

but as you'll probably learn today,
has an extensive amount of background

in the contact center industry
with his time at Gartner, and I am.

This is of like interviewing one of
your heroes here, to be honest with you.

So Jim, how are we doing today?

Jim Davies: Oh yeah, very good day.

Thank you.

And I'm very kind you to say hero.

I've not been called that before.

Dave Hoekstra: Oh.

It's it truly is.

And I remember when when it was announced
that we were hiring you, it was I can

imagine someone's, that's like their.

Baseball coach in little league
is, the MVP of the American

League or something like that.

So it's really fantastic to have you here.

And so I'd like to I'd like to, before
we get into the topic of today, which

we're gonna talk about some of the
things that contact centers could do

to look towards the future I'd like to.

Hear a little bit about your background.

Tell us how you got here now.

I did a little research before we
started, and I see that not only in your

time at Gartner, but you are also the
guitarist for Prodigy, the prog rock band.

Is that yeah.

Jim Davies: I saw Is that
a different Jim Davies?

It's possibly a different guy.

Yeah.

And I didn't, Create Garfield.

Either that's somebody else's again.

But no, my, my background is
actually quite unusual for being

in this position now because I was
a Gartner analyst for 22 years.

But before that I was
actually a scientist.

So I used to work for the Ministry
defense as an organic chemist.

So I was a classic person in a
laboratory with a white coat mixing

A and B and having fun there.

But yeah, moved into Ghana primarily
because I had the right sort of

thought processes, the right of
analytical minds, and I became one

of Ghana's lead analysts for customer
experience and contact center.

So I've been tracking the, what
used to be called workforce

optimization market, and then I
rebranded it to workforce engagement.

Been tracking that for 15 plus years.

But also as we were both
talking about earlier, most

jobs you can't just do one job.

I was also the Gartner's lead
analyst for Voice of the Customer.

I'm one of our lead customer
experience analysts.

Dave Hoekstra: So let's, I I would,
I've, this is actually a great question

that I've been meaning to ask you.

You are directly responsible for every
time I talk to a customer or a client

or a contact center, and I have to say
the phrase uh, w e e M, but I always

have to add the clarifier after it.

What used to be called W F O what's the
story behind the shift in branding there?

. And why are you responsible for torturing
all of us in the contact center?

Jim Davies: I think that's what it is.

An analyst, you can't let
the vendors have it easy.

You've always gotta make them work.

So yeah we changed the acronym,
but no, seriously, I, the W F O

acronym was around for 7, 8, 9
years, and it was very much focused

on driving operational performance.

Whereas what I felt was missing was
the emphasis on the employee and the

engagement level of that employee.

Now, they were treated like
a cog in the machine, a.

They weren't human beings.

So I thought we, we have
to change that perception.

And the best way of doing
that is to change the acronym.

And so we change the acronym from W F
O to WEM, but at the same time change

the technology and the functionality
that's associated with that acronym.

So all of the old original W F O functions
and traditional recording qm, workforce

management, they were still there,
but now they were looked at through

a different, So workforce management
wasn't just about how do we forecast

and schedule as efficiently as possible.

It's now also a tool that can help
drive employee engagement because

you're giving those employees greater
flexibility on when they come to work.

So it's looking through the
same technologies through a

different lens as part of it.

But then the other part of it was
overlaying it with new technologies

things like real-time assistance,
automation, gamification, things

that can really help drive that
engagement level of the employee even.

Dave Hoekstra: Yeah.

And I do sincerely appreciate that kind of
rebranding and relenting of the discussion

because I, like a lot of people in the
industry used to wear the headset, right?

I slogged through years of
customer service on the end

of being in a contact center.

I reflect back to my early days and
I never really thought of it, I never

really thought of, Hey, here's a
piece of paper that has your breaks

and lunches on it, and this is, sit
down, shut up, and take calls, which

is, know, what I often refer to as.

The old school contact center, and now
the new school contact center is very much

when would you like to take your breaks?

What schedule would you prefer?

W making sure we're involving the
entire workforce and engaging it

as opposed to just optimizing it.

And so I, I.

, I agree with your sentiment.

Just know that it has caused me I, I've
lost a lot of productivity in meetings,

having to say what used to be called W F
O as part of it, but mission accomplished.

I think W E em has taken a nice
solid foothold into what we do.

And I'm I think we're
gonna be better for it.

Yeah, in

Jim Davies: addition to, it being
the right thing from the employee's

point of view, there's gonna
be a massive uptick in how that

influences the customer experience
because it is a bit of a cliche.

But if you've got a happy employee,
you've got a happy customer and so

therefore you're more likely to have a
higher retention growth, all the things

we care about as organizations, you're
gonna get those cuz you've got a happy,

engaged employee who's going above
and beyond delivering that experience.

So it's gotta be a win-win.

Dave Hoekstra: It's a
cliche because it's true.

Yeah.

I've said this many times before,
when you go into a business, it

doesn't have to be a contact sentence.

This could be any business.

You can almost immediately tell whether
the employees are engaged or not.

Sometimes that means they're.

They're being paid appropriately.

But a lot of times it also
means that their work-life

balance is being addressed.

That their personal needs are being
addressed, that they're getting

fulfillment out of their job.

And you can also very easily
tell when they're not engaged

and it's pretty obvious.

And, there's a, it's
the alchemy of creating.

And fostering a great work environment
is a pretty complicated formula.

There's no one magic bullet
or, formula that does it.

But engaging the employees is
definitely a sizable chunk of that.

So it's good to see, and I personally
appreciate it, as do many other people.

And hopefully we're creating a new
wave of contact center management.

We continue to grow the engagement
of the overall workforce as opposed

to just the optimization of.

. Absolutely.

That's fantastic.

All right, so

Jim Davies: say one, one final point
on that as well is I believe that

it's becoming even fundamentally more
important because the more the well

pushes towards AI and automation and
sales service and all the digital

channels that don't involve an agent,
the more we're gonna find that when

those channels can't help us and we
have to escalate to a human, that

customer's already a little bit frustra.

And so this human being,
this agent, they're the last

chance to save the experience.

And so if they're not engaged and
they're not willing to help that

customer and put the effort in, then
that's gonna be very detrimental to

the overall loyalty of that customer.

So it's more important now than ever.

Dave Hoekstra: more important.

Yeah.

As the tools get better the EM
empathy becomes more important.

It's a loose adage to
what we're talking about.

And it actually leads very well into
kind of the point that we wanted to

discuss with you today is the idea of.

What contact centers might need
to be looking for the future?

Your time as a Gartner analyst,
you've spent a lot of time analyzing

the tools and the processes
and things that are out there.

And as we look to the future
what should we be focusing or

should we be thinking about?

Jim Davies: I.

There, there are so many cool
things we can think about to improve

the experience in the future.

In the future, and improve
our service operations.

But actually I don't think that's
what we should be doing at the moment

because what I've seen from many years
of being an analyst is that we are just

doing a really bad job of the basics.

Now we tend to get carried
away with the new shiny toy.

The new ai, the new this, the new that
we, we latch onto that as the savior.

But actually, if we want to do the best we
can do right now, just doing those basic

things better is what we need to focus on.

And the analogy I always
use is I buying a car?

When you go and buy a car, The brakes
of that car are not very glamorous.

Now, you're not gonna choose a car
because it's got good brakes or bad

brakes, but if you buy that car and
you get to the first junction and that

car doesn't stop because the brakes
don't work, then you're gonna be pretty

unhappy with that car and that's gonna
ruin your experience of owning that car.

but if the brakes do work, you're
never really going to tweet about

the amazing brakes on your car.

So having the brakes working
really well is fundamentally

important for your car ownership.

But you are never gonna
start raving about it.

You're never gonna put it into
Facebook, you're never gonna tweet

about it just because the brakes work.

But if they don't work, very bad.

Now the opposite of that could be having
Apple CarPlay or having a wifi within

your car call, you're gonna tweet about
that absolutely is a great thing to

have, but there's no point having that.

If the brakes don't work, you could have
your Apple car play, but if the brakes

don't work, there's no point and it
doesn't have any impact on the experience.

And I think linking that
into customer service.

We get carried away.

So new shiny toys are the things
that are the equivalent of the

the wifi or the upper CarPlay.

Whereas the basics of say, having a
forecast that's accurate or having

a QM program that actually fairly
es your staff are the basics.

We've just gotta get those in place
first, which many companies don't.

Before we start looking at these bigger,
more glamorous technology, invest.

Dave Hoekstra: Yeah, I
think it's a great point.

I often tell people that every
contact center out there, whether you

have two agents or 200,000 agents,
every contact center does w e m.

They just do it sometimes rather poorly or
they do it with ineffective tools, right?

You can have very effective forecasts
through Excel spreadsheets, but you can

also have very long manual processes
that take up a lot of extra time.

That could be done in significantly
less time working through that.

And let's maybe talk about some of.

Examples?

What, maybe give me a few things that
back to basics that that, that could

be, it could be focused on by an
organization that maybe doesn't realize

what their what the problem might be.

Jim Davies: Yeah, and I think if you
look at it look at it across all contacts

into technologies, it's just, it could
be things such as, when was the last

time the knowledge base was updated?

How accurate is information that those
agents are providing to customers?

Is there a different knowledge base on the
website compared to the contact center?

A small thing like that
can be quite profound.

If you look at it from the routing.

Or routing engine based
on where you come from.

I I've worked for an American company
for so long now, , but bringing English,

I dunno whether it's rooting or routing.

I, so whichever way is
it bound to be wrong.

But even the accuracy, does that
routing engine send that customer

to the right agent or not?

Most of the time it doesn't.

Simple things like that
can make a huge difference.

If you drill into the W F O WM space,
can that workforce management system

cope with a hybrid working environment
where you've got some employees at

home or some at work or doing a.

Part part of each can the QM
system actually fairly and

accurately assess an employee's
performance, identify training needs?

Or is it more of a random lucky
guest to pick a call where you

identify some training opportunities?

So there's things like that that I think
we don't need to go massive investments

of millions of dollars to try and focus on
some of these basic things that can make.

Transformational difference in terms
of the performance, the center,

and the experience we provide.

Dave Hoekstra: It's a great point,
and you actually reminded me when

I first got into this industry, I
went to some training over in London

and I never caught more flack in my
entire life by saying call routing.

Instead of call rooting it that
you actually brought back some

past feelings there when you
mentioned that, so I remember

Yeah.

It was, it was the focus of the entire
week that how I pronounced specific words.

But, there, there was a kind of
a theme in what you said when

we're going back to basics.

A lot of those, a lot of those
points that you made had to do.

Focusing on the people and
focusing on the right things.

Some of the things that are easy to solve
ba are basically how you look at the

people that are performing the customer
experience operations in the organization.

You mentioned focusing on quality and
instead of randomly finding, Being

very pointed and detailed about the
information that you're looking for.

For example instead of just listening
to a random call, how about we check out

every single call from yesterday that
had more than two or three holds in it

to find out why we're putting people
on hold so much, which leads you to.

Updating the knowledge base because the
knowledge base isn't very effective.

It's that trickle down
effect of making sure.

And so I think that's a really great
point in, in, in working through that.

So you mentioned, hybrid scheduling
the in-office versus at home,

which is a big thing right now and
probably is not going away anytime.

Being able to check on whether
you're reporting actually

delineates between those two things.

Those are actually really great points.

And I wonder if there are suggestions,
just in general, what would you suggest?

A co where could a contact center start?

From to, to really take a step
back and look at what to do.

How would, if someone came to Jim
Davies and said, Jim efficiency is down.

We know why, but we don't really For sure.

Where would maybe somebody start
to take a step back to the basics?

Jim Davies: I think what I'd do is
make a list of every single process

system, technology that, that is used
in that center and firstly identify,

is this technology fundamental?

Now, is this one of the must
have technologies that with

it, we can't do with each?

Can't do.

And then, so that would be the basics of
the basic technologies or if it things

that if we turn this off tonight, we're
still gonna be able to function, but

we are not gonna be able to do maybe
ABC on top of what the basics are.

And then once you've identified those
two lists, then start to look at that.

primarily looking at the basics list and
say if we had to, this is really crude,

really basic, but if you said for each
of those technologies on that basic list,

if you said, let's give ourselves a score
from one to 10 on how optimized that is

really crude and get three or four people
who know that technology, get 'em to sit

down and say, let's give you a score.

It's just the best it can possibly.

or we are just scratching the surface
of this technology now, the workforce

management, for example, and if you've
got a score of between, you averaged

out of less than five, outta 10, put
your priority there because that would

suggest that if you're scoring five or
less outta 10, those breaks are not gonna

work when you get to the next roundabout.

And that's where the energy should be.

So it doesn't have to be very
scientific because you could.

A huge amount of time doing this
analytically, but literally just

having the experts in the room sitting
down and manually going through the

little spreadsheet they've created.

Here's all the technologies.

These are the must haveve
technologies to run our business.

Let's give us scale a score of
how optimized they are, one to 10.

Simple as that.

Ending less than five.

Start focusing that and get
those up to a seven or eight.

, and that could be the
routing, routing engine.

It could be the knowledge base, it
could be the QM system, it could be

whatever, could be the CRM system,
the case management handling.

Get those up to a state where they're
at least seven out of 10, and then start

looking at some of the more glamorous
technologies, whether that's real time

interaction, assistance or whatever it
happens to be, that can then overlay

on top and provide that extra layer of.

The other case thing, I would go.

Dave Hoekstra: I was just gonna say
that's I, it's so simple, but it's

probably so effective identifying that
low hanging fruit just right off the bat.

It's it, like you said, you could probably
do this in a two hour meeting with.

Four to five people in your contact
center or your organization, and then

come out with, all right, we now know
where we should be spending our time.

And then that's the next
challenge is spending your time.

And we won't delve too deep into
that, but think that's a great start.

All right.

So you were, continue on, you
were saying the next step there.

Jim Davies: Yeah.

The ne the next step I'll try and look at.

when you are looking to maybe
start in investing in some of these

layer on technologies and where to
prioritize this these basics as well.

The tendency is to try and focus on
areas that are linked to one particular

business goal, such as efficiency,
which is the flavor of the market

at the moment, driving efficiency.

. The reality is a lot of these technologies
can do more than that now, that they

can also provide a, help you with your
revenue growth or help you with your

loyalty help you with your engagement
as well as your operation efficiency.

So whenever you are looking at saying, how
well are we doing with this technology?

Don't just look at it from the point of
view of how well are we doing with this

technology in terms of its driving our EF.

look at it also in terms of how well are
we doing with this technology in terms

of how it improves employee engagement.

In terms of how well it improves
customer loyalty in terms

of how well it's potentially
helping us with customer growth.

So you're now looking at it from
a three or four dimensions rather

than just the one dimension, which
is what companies tend to do.

They tend to look at it just from
that internal operational efficiency

perspective and not other perspectives.

So going back to workforce management,
the easy assessment is to say, okay,

our workforce management is, let's give
it a five, outta 10 for how we optimize

is from the efficiency point of view.

But maybe it's only three outta 10
in terms of how it's driving employee

engagement, because you haven't got
work-life balance capabilities within it.

So that's the other dimension,
second layer to this.

Dave Hoekstra: Yeah.

So instead of your Excel spreadsheet
saying workforce management system

and one number, the elements of
the workforce management system

underneath there, and maybe looking
at the numbers of that as well and see

what those, what that return comes.

Yeah,

Jim Davies: exactly.

And don't just limit it to the web
technologies because even your routing,

routing engine will have an impact
not just on efficiency, but it'll

also have an impact on employee.

Retention employee experience.

Cuz if you've got employees dealing
with customers asking questions, they

dunno the answer to cause they've come
through to the wrong agent, that's not

gonna be a good day for that employee.

And equally has an impact on the customer
experience if they're put through to

an agent who doesn't know the answer,
their question cuz of the routing logic.

So all of those different components
of customer service can have

that multi-dimensional scoring.

Again, one to 10, keep it simple, and
then from that work out the way forward.

Dave Hoekstra: Jim, I would
never solely focus on w e m.

That, that is ridiculous to
think that it would be something

that only I would think of.

I'm very multi-dimensional,
multifaceted kind of person.

No I've been accused of that.

It's been basically my
life for the last 15 years.

I have to thank you for the reminder.

Alright, so now let's.

The next step, let's say the team sits
down in the room, Excel spreadsheet.

We're mapping everything out.

Everything comes in a nice 7, 8, 9.

We're feeling really solid or we've
done some work to get back to making

sure those basics are taken care of.

What are some of the things that maybe
to focus on for, to be prepared for

the next wave of customer experience
that a contact center could focus on?

Jim Davies: I think there's
another lab before we get to that.

Sorry to, sorry.

To keep delay in the future.

Oh, let's know.

. No.

But there, there's
another layer which I see.

Overlooked too often.

And actually to me, when I created
W F O all those years ago, it was

one of the founding reasons for it,
which is the value you get from having

all these different basic functions
working together as one, it's the one

plus one equals three type of analogy.

And what are the incremental
things you can do if you have these

systems working together as one
rather than the siloed systems?

and that's something I don't think
many companies spend enough time

looking at as they try and go
above and beyond just the basics.

So as a very simple example of that
could be using your quality data.

To provide more granular granularity
to how you generate your schedule.

Now, using performance as a driver for
the schedule allocation rather than just

a skillset that's been predetermined,
something like that, which you can do

if these systems are working together.

You can't, if they're not looking
outside of WEM, it could be using that

QM data to influence the routing logic.

So the customer gets sent to an agent
who's gonna be a better fit because of

how they're performing in that particular
area that day, that week, that month.

So I would say that layer above
getting the basics right is looking

for opportunities to get these systems
working together more, getting cross

domain workflow across the domain
value add, because I think that summit

that's really been overlooked in the
marketplace over the last decade.

Dave Hoekstra: And the challenge often
that I find in talking to organizations

is not that they don't realize this,
it's often that they're not taking a

step back and looking at it from an
organizational perspective as opposed

to a context center perspective.

And I'll give you a good example.

You use the the routing engine.

As a way to get callers to
the higher quality agents.

I think anybody in their right
mind would think, yes, we want the

best agents answering the calls.

The problem that organizations have
is often how to get to that question.

It's not saying, what
do we do with our C A S.

Deployment to work Here it is more
taking a step back and saying, boy,

our customer survey scores are just
not meeting what we need to do.

How can we get our customer
survey scores better?

Okay, ha we need to get people
to better quality people.

Okay.

That, and so that, that step is often
overlooked as the, as an organization

and taking a step back and looking at.

Organizational issues,
not contact center issues.

Think asking questions like,
are we spending our money

correctly in the marketing phase?

What, why our abandoned
rate is really high.

Take a step back.

And the abandoned rate is because
when we look back at it's, the 800

number not published correctly, right?

Those are organizational wide
issues as opposed to contact center.

So I think that's a really great point.

It's taking that solution to the second
level of, and how marrying solutions

together can actually drive that,
that the goal that we're looking for.

Jim Davies: Yeah.

And I think, and to be honest
challenge isn't the technical one.

The challenge is operational.

Because quite often the owner
of these different functions,

they don't talk to each other.

I remember 10 years ago when a, and I
won't name names, but there was when a

QM vendor bought a workforce management
vendor, and the first thing they did was

go through the two sets of customers and
look for customers who were the same.

And then visit those customers and
physically introduce the employees

of that organization to each other.

but they'd never met each other before
because one team worked on QM and

one works on workforce management
and they never knew each other.

. So that if you're never talking to
each other internally, how on earth

are you gonna start thinking about
the bigger picture of getting the

two technologies to work together
to provide the in incremental value?

So a big part of this is having some
form of entity, whether it's a customer

service CX team or somebody that's looking
now from above who can start to try.

Break down those barriers internally
and start to try and get the

different aspects working together.

Cause they can see that bigger picture.

Wow.

Just

Dave Hoekstra: chuck full of insight.

I love that.

We're able to give this kind of
information to the rest of the team

here because there's so much good stuff.

Okay.

Now let me see if I could finally
get to my original question that

you we got so much good information
here and I'm so appreciative of it.

What.

Couple of things that as we look to
the future that we could that a contact

center or an organization could focus on,

Jim Davies: I think to break it into two
parts, near future and long term future.

So I think that near future, one of
the technologies that we should all

be investing in every context and
should be investing in this now,

is analytics, speech analytics in
particular, or interaction analytics.

It's.

It's a technology that's not new.

I remember years ago being asked
whether this is witchcraft and how

can it possibly understand the voice,
but it's proven, it's accurate, and

it's a technology that you can apply
to so many different use cases.

I think it's something that we
should all be looking at now.

Now whether that's trying to make our
center more efficient, whether it's trying

to drive employee retention, whether
it's trying to drive revenue growth

from up sale, cross sale, it doesn't
matter that, that you can tailor the

analytics to help drive that business
scale or even just make your QM process

more intelligent to your analyzing all
of your calls, not just that random

sampling that we talked about earlier.

So I think near future, that's the
one technology that stands out.

any other that I think everybody
should be looking at now because

the value it can provide.

The caveat I would say on that is you
have to have the competency internally

to get the most outta that technology.

Because it's like buying a Ferrari and
if you dunno how to drive it, you're

not gonna get the most out of it.

So you've gotta have that competency.

So with the technology comes the
appropriate training and onboarding,

but as long as that's in place, that's
the number one technology I'll be

recommending anybody looks at the moment.

Longer term, I would say that the
bigger opportunity is really starting

to get into how we assist the agent
live in an interaction with a customer.

So think of it in terms of real-time
guidance, real-time assistance, being

able to bring information to the agent to
help them with the interaction, to help

steer the agent through a complex process
to navigate between different systems to.

Detect that they're getting emotional
and recommend they take a five minute

timeout to go and grab a coffee.

Really having that sort of real
time ability to look at what's going

on in that interaction and assist
that employee however possible,

I think that's the next leg.

So I think that can have that type
of technology stack can have the

biggest impact on all those customer
service metrics, whether it's

employee, customer, or operational.

Dave Hoekstra: Because you
alluded to it earlier that.

The self-service is taking care of
the easy stuff, and the only thing

that's making it to the agent is
the hard stuff and the ability for

them to navigate those waters with
empathy and correct information,

it becomes more and more difficult.

Realtime guys.

I, no, I've noticed you,
you bring up a good point.

I've noticed I, I attend the amount
of a fair amount of conference trade

shows and those types of things
in the context center industry.

And that seems to be the really big focus
is realtime analytics, agent guidance,

next best action, those kind of things.

And.

There seems to be a lot of energy in
that space these days, and it's gonna

be interesting to see the promise
fulfilled with with organizations and

really being able to, because at the
end of the day, The reason all of us

have jobs in this industry, whether it's
you, me, the managers, the agents, is

because somebody needs assistance with
something that didn't go to plan, right?

Yes.

And when that plan goes awry,
What information do we have

available for us to fix it?

I'm pretty good at searching for
things online, but even I, tech

guru Dave still need to contact
support every now and again to

report an issue or to find out and.

When we do talk to that person who is
knowledgeable, empathetic, and works it's

what's, what I hate to say is that almost
comes across as a surprise these days.

It's almost wow, that
was not what I expected.

When we get someone that's nice and
knowledgeable, , the, and that's a thing

we need to change in our industry and.

We hopefully, as we continue to see
growth, and that's why we do episodes

like this, is where should the next.

Where should the next focus be?

What should we really talk about?

And so I think it's amazing that we have
the ability to do some of these things.

And yes, you're right.

Analytics used to be like
witchcraft, but you no longer need

a room full of servers to do it.

With cloud-based technologies, we can
now do analytics on a hundred percent

of every interaction that comes in.

And we understand what's being
sent, and I think that's amazing.

I know we're getting close to being
out of time and wrapping up here.

I wanted to, one of the things I always
like to do and when we have great guests

on the podcast is give 'em the final
word, give 'em the, prognosticate a

little bit for me, Jim what what advice
or what information would you love to

make sure the audience hears about?

Jim Davies: Going off a little bit of
a tangent relief we've covered today.

I think what we all need to focus on
more is a better understanding of the

experience we are providing our customers
in customer service and not just a better

understanding of it, but actually starting
to do something with that understanding.

Most contact centers do post call
surveys or end of call surveys

or follow up with an email.

But 99% of the time nothing ever happens.

So I think my, my, my plea to
everybody in customer service is

to really take a look at that.

Post call, that CX program that
they've got running at the end of

their service incident and looking
to are we taking it seriously?

Are we really acting
upon this information?

And are we striving to improve the
CX based on what the customers are

telling us that they're experiencing?

Because I think for the
large part, most consumers.

Don't have a good experience but equally
don't feel like there's any point telling

that brand about the experience because I
don't feel like anything's gonna happen.

So I think we need to
change that expectation.

Dave Hoekstra: And I will encourage, for
those of you who are listening, remember

this is a man who has seen it all.

This is a man who has seen every
single thing this industry can throw.

The good, the bad, the
ugly, and the indifferent.

And if he's espousing this kind of
information, we should listen because

there is no one who's probably seen
more about what we do than Jim Davies.

And that's why it's super exciting that
he's a part of the Calabrio family now.

And Jim, I really enjoyed this one.

A really fantastic discussion, and
your insight and your knowledge is well

appreciated, and I think it's going
to be very useful for a lot of people.

Thank you from me for joining for
spending some time with us today.

And as always, to our listeners,
thank you guys so much for

giving us some time in your day.

We here at working smarter with Collabreo.

Really try to put forth a great
product here and make sure that you

guys get the information you need.

So Jim, again, thank you for
spending time with us today.

Jim Davies: Thank you, David.

I

Dave Hoekstra: appreciate it.

Ah, absolutely.

Oh, and he called me David only,
oh, my mother calls me David.

And so that's very British and very

Jim Davies: formal, you say.

Yeah.

Dave Hoekstra: It's actually
funny you bring that up because,

my name is David James Stra.

And a very common nickname
for David is Davy.

And so my parents when I was
younger, called me Davey Jim.

So we just take Jim Davies, flip it around
to Davy Jim, and that's what we get.

So that's great.

There you go.

So thank you again for joining us.

Thank you to everyone out
there and we will see you on

the next episode of Working.

From Collabreo.

As always, if you have information
you'd like to see, just go to

collabreo.com, find any email address,
send it in, and we will respond.

If you need help or want to discuss
anything with us, we really appreciate it.

Otherwise, we will talk to you on the next
episode of working Smarter from Collab.

Thanks everybody.