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Welcome to Founder-Led, featuring founders scaling 7 and 8 figure companies who share the strategies and mindset driving real growth.
Brought to you by LinkedIn Growth Engine. We help established recruitment and staffing firm owners land new clients from LinkedIn by turning their executive content and insights into a trust building inbound lead engine.
We partner with $1M to $20M+ agency founders to build visibility, authority, and trust that drives pipeline, without turning you into a “content creator.” Over the last 12 months, we've helped drive $20M+ in booked revenue from LinkedIn.
If you're done relying on referrals and want prospects coming in pre sold, you're in the right place.
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Rohan
Welcome to founder Leg, where we sit down with some of the sharpest operators running and scaling B2B service based companies.
00:00:08:23 - 00:00:12:10
Rohan
This episode is brought to you by Frontier Content Studio,
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Rohan
a latent growth agency that helps business owners go from hidden gem to industry icon by growing your visibility, authority and ultimately, your business from LinkedIn.
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Rohan
So if you're ready to join over 30 businesses that are turning thought leadership
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Rohan
into real revenue while spending less than one hour per week of your time.
00:00:32:15 - 00:00:37:16
Rohan
Comment thought leadership below and some from our team will reach out. Now let's get to today's episode.
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Rohan
Today's guest is Dave Valentine, CEO of Finch, a global e-commerce performance marketing agency. Managing over 100 clients with a global team across the US, Argentina, New Zealand, Australia and Europe.
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Rohan
Dave has founded or purchased 11 companies and sold nine of them.
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Rohan
He's been featured in Forbes entrepreneur Ted X, and after doctor told him he was the most stressed out person they'd ever tested and wouldn't see 40.
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Rohan
He completely rebuilds how he leads.
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Rohan
Now Dave runs Finch on four core values humanity, transparency,
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Rohan
curiosity, and impact driven.
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Rohan
And he actually hires, promotes and fires based on these values.
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Rohan
So if you care about conscious leadership,
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Rohan
building agencies that treat people like humans while driving high performance,
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Rohan
this conversation's for you.
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Rohan
Dave, welcome to the show.
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Dave
Oh, thanks so much for having me, bro. This is going to be fun.
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Rohan
Yeah. You know, I think a good place to start is so many of our
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Rohan
audience members are building businesses and dealing with the stress that comes along with it. So it'd be great if you can share your story
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Rohan
of burnout. And you know what you learn from that and how that led you to maybe building on a more sustainable path.
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Dave
Yeah.
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Dave
Yeah. So 29 years old, going on 30. And,
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Dave
I built up $1 million business and
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Dave
an annual revenue, and I didn't know at the time that
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Dave
only 1% of agencies in the country ever crossed that threshold. So by every objective measure, I was very successful, but I still felt like something was lacking.
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Dave
My wife being the the sage person that she is, I said, hey, you know, you're getting close to 30.
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Dave
You haven't had, like, a proper physical since you're in college playing sports.
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Dave
Maybe. Maybe we should just go get that done. Seeing as how we had two kids now, and I was like, sure. Yeah. Okay. Went to the doc, did a stress test and came back a week later.
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Dave
You know, not actually not thinking about it like just thinking routine.
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Dave
Routine routine. Do do do do do go do your thing. And then when I came back and he was like, okay, so I mean, this is how he put it to me goes. So Dave, when do you know you're about to have a heart attack? And that was like,
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Dave
that? Well, what do you mean? He goes when you know, you're about to have a heart attack.
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Dave
And I was like,
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Dave
I don't understand the question, actually. And he goes, you don't.
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Dave
You just have one.
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Dave
He said, we've tested 4500 people
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Dave
over the past several years, and you're the most stressed out person you've ever tested.
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Dave
And I'm in my mind, I'm thinking, okay. Yeah, I mean, I, I'm not as good a shape as I used to be, you know, and I was an athlete.
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Dave
I was in great shape, I played soccer, I played football, I wasn't competitive weightlifter like, I played baseball as a kid, you name it, right? Yeah.
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Dave
And so I thought, well, okay.
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Dave
And he goes, you're not going to see 40 if you keep going at this pace.
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Dave
And so what I've been doing is
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Dave
I've been working really hard.
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Dave
There's kind of this mentality that I had when I stepped into my first business at the ripe age of 25, by the way, that I was like, you know, I don't know everything. And I knew I didn't know everything. It was like very clear to me, but I was lacking.
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Dave
And I went, I know
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Dave
there are so many people that know more than me, but I can outwork them.
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Dave
So that was the thing I used to say constantly, and I
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Dave
embodied that.
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Dave
So I would go to networking events and
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Dave
I would go talk to people and, you know, it was a lot of effort. There's a lot of energy for very little return.
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Dave
There was a lot of just, like, talk with people, make it, you know, I'd be talk about a guy, and, we're talking about advertising budgets.
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Dave
And I'm like, hey, man, you know, what? Do you do it for? Advertising us? Dude, I just got some good traction and we went. We doubled our ad budget. I was like, oh, that's fantastic. Would you double your ad budget too? From 250 to 500 a month.
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Dave
You know, you're going, okay, what am I doing? This is what I'm doing here.
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Dave
And so I had to really take a hard look
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Dave
at how I was running my business.
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Dave
And a few things became really apparent really quickly. Number one, the way that I was generating leads and closing sales was crazy. I was I was just hustling
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Dave
at every single
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Dave
spot.
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Dave
The second thing was,
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Dave
man, I had done a great job at hiring a lot of people that
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Dave
were really inexpensive, and all of them needed a lot of data mentorship to get where we needed them to be.
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Dave
And so I had to start looking at things differently and go, okay, how do I
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Dave
really increase our lead flow
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Dave
where I don't have to be out in the community doing sales or, you know, prospecting via cold email and then giving so much value in a strategy session and mocking up creatives and showing, how do I do that?
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Dave
And then how do I afford the people that we really need in order to run the business at a higher level where they don't need me?
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Dave
That so that that was really the turning point. Was was that year, 2016? Really made a huge difference going into 2017? I also bought out my business partner that I had at the time.
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Dave
At the end of 2016, I said, hey man,
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Dave
you want a really nice 35 hour per week job? I'm working 80 hours per week.
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Dave
You've got, you know, no kids. I've got two. Your wife has a six figure job as a software developer. My wife doesn't work.
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Dave
We have different needs. We have different wants out of this business.
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Dave
Let me buy you out. And so 2017 was just a massive growth year for us. So it's 2018. So it's 2019. When I ultimately sold that first business and it it really was all built around this conversation that I had with my doc.
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Rohan
Okay.
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Rohan
Wow. So talk about yes. You got that health scare. Then you took that information to heart and
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Rohan
you started to, to make some changes. And. Sounds like you learned a lot from it as well. So
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Rohan
now fast forward. You know, Finch is a fast growing company. Talk a bit about what you're doing there, and then kind of get into this idea of how you think about company building
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Rohan
today.
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Dave
Yeah. So.
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Dave
I actually consulted with Finch. I sold
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Dave
a bunch of my businesses back in early 2023, and
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Dave
had taken kind of the rest 23 off. I was, resting a little bit, recouping. I sold eight businesses that that spring. And so 24, I started picking up some consulting clients. And
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Dave
a number of them were agencies.
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Dave
Some of them were software companies, all things that I have experience and, you know, and and so as I, as I was working with Finch in the summer of 2024 and in the fall,
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Dave
you know, there just kind of became this conversation of
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Dave
now you're doing a lot to help us grow. We're not seeing this internally.
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Dave
What would it look like for you to come in?
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Dave
And so, came in on January 1st and there was a passing of the guard, as it were. So, previous CEO and the executive team
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Dave
transitioning out in Q1 is as I transitioned in with a new executive team that took over. And really, the thing that we did that was that was unique was we said, okay, we're going to build this around,
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Dave
core values.
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Dave
So we have four core values that we built around that you mentioned in the intro. And
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Dave
we're going to hire, promote and fire based off those
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Dave
four core values.
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Dave
We're also going to talk about those core values to our, our staff. So we run
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Dave
the entire company using the entrepreneurial operating system called EOS. And part of that is I know you're familiar.
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Dave
Part of that is, is, you know,
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Dave
every quarter going, hey, we're going to give you a grade on each core value. And so grading each and every employee on the core values is huge. Something that we do every, every every quarter. And, and then they give us feedback on how we're doing as well. And so the other thing we did when we first came in was there was really no lead generation to speak of.
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Dave
This is really common for marketing and advertising firms, right? They they run marketing advertising for other businesses, but they don't do it for themselves. Yeah. And they go, I don't know, it doesn't work. It's hard to sell. Now, one of my favorite things to do for for potential clients like, oh, you know how you found us? And they go, yeah, through LinkedIn, through meta, through.
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Dave
I saw your ad on, I was on YouTube TV, and I was watching a football game, and your ad came up or I was scrolling on. It's whatever it is, right? I think it's like, so the way that you found us,
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Dave
that's how we're going to help you find customers. Yeah. I go, right. So, eating our own dog food is the best way to put it.
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Dave
Like when we do this for ourselves, it's really powerful to say that, and
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Dave
say, look, this is what we get out of every dollar we put in,
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Dave
and they just go, whoa. Okay. Got it. You know it. So it works.
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Dave
We position to work with Ecom brands, but we work with B2B to about 30% of our clients are lead generation or something outside of ecom.
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Dave
Right. And so yeah, it's really effective for us to run it that way. And we really went about building a sales and marketing,
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Dave
firm that was really built around, hey, let's sell, let's grow clients. Let's also help them understand strategically where they are in their growth trajectory. So not just allowing them to hang on and
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Dave
be around and say to low engagement, it's like, no,
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Dave
this is what would happen if we went to this level of spend and this level of engagement.
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Dave
Here's where we go. If we tripled, quadrupled that,
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Dave
and here's the timeline for expectations. And then, letting the the client make an educated decision based off their margins and what their goals are for the year, what their goals are for five years from now and then collaborating as to, you know, really seeing that work out. So
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Dave
that's kind of how we've
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Dave
built this thing into a huge, juggernaut in the past year.
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Rohan
Okay.
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Rohan
I want to double click on
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Rohan
the, you know, you you have the mature business with the bench
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Rohan
and something that I've noticed is one of the most important things to ensure success, especially early on, is is managing expectations, setting realistic expectations early on and then almost exceeding them. Right. Like, that way they're just stoked out the gate
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Rohan
and personal learning as well as other
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Rohan
business owners that I've spoken to, is the idea of like realistic timelines and what to expect in the first month, the first 90 days, so on and so forth.
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Rohan
And one of the learnings
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Rohan
I've implemented is really hedging on being very safe and conservative, right? In terms of like what we what will be delivered
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Rohan
and kind of expectations. So we're there.
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Rohan
Are there any learnings you can share around things you might have learned
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Rohan
the hard way, where now, having made a change, you just set the business up for success.
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Rohan
You're doing it sustainably. The team morale is still high because there's that buffer built in and the client is still very understanding of the deliverables.
00:11:05:11 - 00:11:08:22
Rohan
If there's, specific things you track or do, that'd be really helpful.
00:11:09:02 - 00:11:13:07
Dave
So one of the things that's that's challenging right now is that the metrics are changing.
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Dave
So here's what I mean. Back in 2019, there was an iOS privacy update that has fundamentally shifted the ground beneath the feet of digital marketing leaders,
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Dave
and that iOS privacy update stopped the ability to track a number of conversions through your phone.
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Dave
So right now, between privacy data,
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Dave
cookie attribution, just degrading over time because cookies are
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Dave
becoming or have nearly become obsolete. That's how they used to track conversions.
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Dave
Any sort of last click attribution is so 2019.
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Dave
The problem is, everybody that we speak with, they're
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Dave
close to my age, plus or minus five years. Right.
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Dave
And they've grown up with
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Dave
last click attribution.
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Dave
It's the holy grail. This is what makes digital different from traditional. Yeah. And what I keep telling clients is,
00:12:03:04 - 00:12:13:13
Dave
hey, that sounds really sophisticated in 2019. And it doesn't work in 2026. And so I literally had this sparring session with the client about this today, where I just said, look,
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Dave
can I share with you how we judge our own marketing advertising efforts?
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Dave
And I said, of course. And I went, look,
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Dave
we look at merger marketing efficiency ratio. How many dollars do I put into marketing and sales total between staff and ad buy? And then what does it look like for us to sell?
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Dave
And then what's my return?
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Dave
And I'm looking at it going every month
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Dave
I want to see a three year greater.
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Dave
We're usually at like an 18.
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Dave
So we're not even close. Right. But like I care about dollars in, dollars out. That's what you care about to Mr. Client. Let's get to that. Now, some clients get that right, and it's it's interesting to me, brother, because. Yeah, some of the clients, they get it.
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Dave
They're like
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Dave
the ones that would think appear to be more simple.
00:12:59:10 - 00:13:08:01
Dave
They're actually more sophisticated. And this is how we used to judge campaigns. And we got to the point where you're just like, showing the weeds on the data.
00:13:08:05 - 00:13:21:09
Dave
And at this point, the data is more frequency than it is signal. And so it's like, what's the actual signal? Right. So yeah, setting the expectations is huge. And then saying, look, this is how we're going to help you.
00:13:21:11 - 00:13:39:17
Dave
This is what it looks like. This is where the win is. And if you're looking for a win in direct click attribution across the board, you're not going to find the value. I've had people say, well, you know, that's how we do business. And then I go, yeah, that's how you're going to do business for the next 2 to 3 years, and then it's going to stop and you're going to come crying to me going
00:13:39:22 - 00:13:41:14
Dave
day like, can't get any leads anymore.
00:13:41:14 - 00:14:05:00
Dave
I don't know what's happening. And it's because the way that people are engaging with digital advertising or digital marketing and as a bigger thing, it's no longer linear, it's more nuanced, it's multi-touch, it's omnichannel, it's meeting people where they're at. So, setting expectations is huge under promising over delivering always a good way to go. And making sure that you're on the same page.
00:14:05:00 - 00:14:05:23
Dave
And, and I told,
00:14:06:03 - 00:14:12:16
Dave
you know, ads that sales kind of that some different clients with me every, every week or so.
00:14:12:21 - 00:14:22:04
Dave
And last week they brought me four potential clients and they said, what do you think about these? Could you watch the bad, recordings and let us know, you know, how do you think we should proceed?
00:14:22:05 - 00:14:23:11
Dave
Just strategically.
00:14:23:15 - 00:14:26:01
Dave
And I told them that all four were not good chats,
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Dave
and they said, why? And I said, expectations aren't aligned. They want last click attribution. They won't move off of it. I could shoot a video and send it to them. But we have videos we've shot like that. Yeah, you can send that to them. I don't think they're going to move off it until they move off.
00:14:41:13 - 00:14:46:22
Dave
I don't want to sell them. And they're just like, okay. And I said, because what do we care about blended Roas
00:14:47:01 - 00:14:53:03
Dave
marketing efficiency ratio? We're looking at big numbers. If they're not going to look at that, there's no one's going to come away happy.
00:14:53:07 - 00:14:56:03
Dave
So yeah, it's really just setting the expectations and sticking with them.
00:14:56:07 - 00:15:12:03
Rohan
I think it's really important to have that point of view because while it might lead to an uncomfortable sales conversation, you are trying to find what that alignment is. You're finding better fit clients. And if anything, if you can teach someone new and assuming they are open and receptive to education,
00:15:12:08 - 00:15:15:23
Rohan
that can be incredibly powerful because they see
00:15:16:02 - 00:15:17:11
Rohan
that you're not you're trying to sell them.
00:15:17:11 - 00:15:27:16
Rohan
You see where the world is going and where the industry is going. And, yeah, they almost see you as like this. Some that sees around corners for them. Right? If they're again bought into it.
00:15:27:20 - 00:15:33:21
Rohan
And so that makes a lot of sense. Marketing efficiency ratio. So is that a metric. Is that an internal metric that you've come up with.
00:15:33:21 - 00:15:36:03
Rohan
Or did you kind of get that from the industry.
00:15:36:08 - 00:15:36:16
Rohan
Yeah, I mean.
00:15:36:16 - 00:15:40:12
Dave
It's an industry, data point. It's lesser known because it's
00:15:40:16 - 00:15:41:22
Dave
it's an old school model.
00:15:42:01 - 00:15:44:03
Dave
Yeah. Like it's a model that was really
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Dave
looked at, crafted, spoken about in the 50s, 60s and 70s, even 80s, because it seems like a gross, as in like, not finite, not like very tight model. Yeah, but let's be real. Like if
00:16:00:02 - 00:16:01:11
Dave
if I spend,
00:16:01:16 - 00:16:05:03
Dave
$100,000 and
00:16:05:06 - 00:16:07:05
Dave
my Roas is a six,
00:16:07:08 - 00:16:07:16
Dave
but
00:16:07:20 - 00:16:09:12
Dave
really, I spent
00:16:09:17 - 00:16:15:23
Dave
$300,000 because of staff, software, travel, trade, whatever.
00:16:16:01 - 00:16:16:09
Dave
Yeah.
00:16:16:12 - 00:16:25:13
Dave
Okay. Well, it's my marketing. Actually efficient. I know that my ad spends efficient, but is my entire marketing efficient? And a good performance marketing agency like fetch is going.
00:16:25:16 - 00:16:27:19
Dave
We want to turn every dollar you spend
00:16:28:00 - 00:16:36:23
Dave
into three or more dollars. And so when I look at what we do for fetch, it's like we're we're getting $18 on average back for every dollar we spend in our marketing department.
00:16:37:01 - 00:16:42:17
Dave
That includes everything we do. Yeah, dude, what's what are we talking about? Right. It's different from that.
00:16:42:17 - 00:16:43:03
Rohan
Okay.
00:16:43:07 - 00:16:53:20
Rohan
That is incredible. So I mean 3 to 18 x. That is a huge jump. What are some of the things you're doing internally to run incredibly lean but highly effective.
00:16:54:00 - 00:16:54:21
Dave
Things that aren't scalable.
00:16:55:01 - 00:17:08:16
Dave
When you do B2B sales and marketing, this is my favorite thing to do. Do things that are scalable. Do things that I can't do, do things that you can't systematize, like it's going to take more time. It's going to lead to better results. So like I get a report
00:17:08:20 - 00:17:09:15
Dave
every day
00:17:09:19 - 00:17:18:07
Dave
of the prospects that came through our advertisements or our marketing efforts that have said, hey, I've got a budget of 50 K or more per month.
00:17:18:11 - 00:17:21:04
Dave
So Finch serves clients that have as little as
00:17:21:07 - 00:17:24:07
Dave
5KA month. They're testing out with us on one platform
00:17:24:11 - 00:17:25:04
Dave
to
00:17:25:08 - 00:17:31:22
Dave
we get some SEO service. More than that, like 2800, 3500 a month somewhere in there. But basically it's all the same.
00:17:32:02 - 00:17:36:01
Dave
They come in with a little bit of cash to we have some clients that are spinning
00:17:36:05 - 00:17:37:22
Dave
15 million a month.
00:17:38:00 - 00:17:45:05
Dave
Right. Like, so it's it's a broad spectrum. Yeah. So anybody that's spending over 50 K a month, I want to know about them that have come through.
00:17:45:08 - 00:17:51:22
Dave
I send them a loon video. Now for my back deck looking over the river you go, hey, I'm Dave Valentine, I'm the CEO.
00:17:52:02 - 00:17:54:08
Dave
So glad she filled out the form. Let me tell you why.
00:17:54:08 - 00:17:59:07
Dave
Finch may be a little bit different than other marketing agencies. As you shop around, I just want you to know we'll get going on.
00:17:59:11 - 00:18:03:18
Dave
Boom. Now shoot them a text from my personal cell phone, and I say, hey, this is my personal cell. If you want to chat.
00:18:03:22 - 00:18:06:10
Dave
I'm not the main sales guy, man. Yeah, you know what I mean?
00:18:06:10 - 00:18:13:09
Dave
But like, I'm doing that so that they already had the connection. They feel it and they're like, dude. So on a given day, that's like
00:18:13:13 - 00:18:15:01
Dave
five people,
00:18:15:05 - 00:18:16:01
Dave
takes me about
00:18:16:05 - 00:18:17:09
Dave
ten, 15 minutes.
00:18:17:13 - 00:18:20:23
Dave
The return rate on that is over 80%, brother. Yeah.
00:18:21:03 - 00:18:28:06
Dave
You know, like it's it's it's not the sexy thing to do. It's not sexy, but it's the thing that works and it'll care.
00:18:28:08 - 00:18:31:23
Dave
Like. And that's what I found most of the time man is like
00:18:32:03 - 00:18:39:05
Dave
whenever you're an owner founder, you're a CEO. And there is a difference between an owner, founder and CEO, by the way. I'll get to that a second. But like
00:18:39:08 - 00:18:48:17
Dave
there are there are owner founders activities that I do. I just am really thoughtful about when I do those versus when I do my CEO activities, which that's 98% of my time.
00:18:48:19 - 00:18:59:12
Dave
But man, those owner founder activities that just aren't scalable, that are really meaningful, that a potential client goes, whoa, you care about me? There's another thing that we do to man. We're like,
00:18:59:15 - 00:19:02:09
Dave
as soon as somebody signs a contract,
00:19:02:13 - 00:19:13:21
Dave
within four hours, they're going to get a loom. Video similar sort of idea where we're welcoming them to Finch, and it's going to be from somebody in the C-suite that they haven't spoken with.
00:19:13:21 - 00:19:32:03
Dave
So what? That's our CFO, our, chief evangelist. If that's, this is a person that's also on an executive team, even though they don't have a C-suite, but they're senior vice president of global services based out of Stockholm. Like, we're going to send them a message. That's a video that's just saying, like, hey, we're so excited for you to be here.
00:19:32:08 - 00:19:37:08
Dave
We're going to do a little bit of research on them and have the salespeople tell us, like what they're doing and like what's going on.
00:19:37:11 - 00:19:38:14
Dave
And it takes us
00:19:38:18 - 00:19:47:20
Dave
60s 90 at the most. Yeah, clients feel so loved because we all want to feel special, man. And like
00:19:47:23 - 00:19:49:08
Dave
a little bit goes a long way.
00:19:49:11 - 00:19:52:09
Rohan
I like that. I that's incredible. Because
00:19:52:12 - 00:20:10:03
Rohan
it is it's non scalable but it's highly effective. And I think that's the that's the intersection right. It's like finding the thing that's going to have an outsized return in terms of like brand equity that you're building relationship equity that you're building. It's at such a critical time in the customer life cycle that first few days.
00:20:10:07 - 00:20:11:05
Rohan
And then,
00:20:11:08 - 00:20:15:23
Rohan
yeah, the outsized return in terms of time invested and like what you get out of it that,
00:20:16:03 - 00:20:24:16
Rohan
that makes a lot of sense. I really like that. Yeah. Is there anything else that comes to mind? I mean, those are two great examples, but, anything else you want to share?
00:20:24:19 - 00:20:28:05
Dave
You know, the thing that's working really well for us is like, authentic ads.
00:20:28:08 - 00:20:32:01
Dave
So, like, it's our chief evangelist on his phone in his backyard.
00:20:32:05 - 00:20:40:23
Dave
It's breaking down really complex ideas in a really simple terms that everybody can feel, even if it's not exactly how that platform works.
00:20:41:02 - 00:20:43:03
Dave
It's how people experience that platform.
00:20:43:08 - 00:20:46:06
Dave
We do the education in the sales process of how it actually works.
00:20:46:06 - 00:20:50:15
Dave
But like in The Hook, which is the ad or the hook that is the email,
00:20:50:19 - 00:20:53:16
Dave
and we're just talking about that, I think that there's this big
00:20:53:21 - 00:20:55:14
Dave
thing where people just don't want to do it.
00:20:55:19 - 00:21:07:19
Dave
You're going to get hate, by the way, on social media ads. We do all the time. People comment about my chief evangelist appearance all the time, and he's just like, whatever, you know, like you're going to have to have a little bit of thick skin.
00:21:07:20 - 00:21:16:11
Dave
Yeah. And if it's the difference between you being where you're at and scaling 10 million, 50 million, 35 million, 50 million a year in revenue,
00:21:16:15 - 00:21:17:20
Dave
are we talking about like,
00:21:18:00 - 00:21:24:06
Dave
go for it, you know what I mean? Like, this is not crazy. So that's that's kind of like some other just
00:21:24:09 - 00:21:35:15
Dave
thoughts for you, like be yourself. And a lot of times yourself is way more interesting, compelling, fascinating than the sanitized version you put out into the world.
00:21:35:17 - 00:21:40:06
Dave
Like be the message you because yeah, that's where the good the goodness is at, you know?
00:21:40:09 - 00:21:40:18
Rohan
Yeah,
00:21:40:21 - 00:21:41:10
Rohan
yeah.
00:21:41:12 - 00:21:42:10
Dave
That's
00:21:42:14 - 00:21:48:07
Rohan
It's it's also the idea of finding, like a skill stack. Right. So,
00:21:48:12 - 00:21:50:10
Rohan
you know, me, for example, I,
00:21:50:14 - 00:22:02:11
Rohan
I'm very, like, interested in sales and marketing. And I've also found that I enjoy having conversations with other business owners and founders and really understanding their story and what makes them tick. And
00:22:02:16 - 00:22:11:07
Rohan
a lot of these conversations, like a good percentage of them, end up leading to sales opportunities, because there is an energy exchange that happens.
00:22:11:09 - 00:22:14:05
Rohan
And it's something that is very energizing for me,
00:22:14:10 - 00:22:22:01
Rohan
and it's actually very aligned with what we do as a business, which is helping people grow their visibility, their reach, but in an authentic,
00:22:22:05 - 00:22:37:14
Rohan
non scalable way, which is showing up on video, sharing their stories, things that it's it's a, it's paradoxical because the people with the most experience, decades of experience also have the highest imposter syndrome.
00:22:37:16 - 00:22:39:23
Rohan
Right. They're the ones thinking like who am I
00:22:40:03 - 00:22:50:10
Rohan
to share? I'm not a Richard Branson or some titan of industry that they might be comparing themselves to. Meanwhile, you've got these, you know, 25 year old life coaches that are all over,
00:22:50:15 - 00:22:55:17
Rohan
creating all this content and like, power to them. And so that's but that's the opportunity where,
00:22:55:21 - 00:23:03:09
Rohan
you know, only 1% of business owners are consistently creating valuable original content on LinkedIn,
00:23:03:12 - 00:23:11:12
Rohan
then that's the opportunity to do the unscalable thing, but show up and capture so much of that market share and mindshare.
00:23:11:16 - 00:23:16:19
Rohan
Yeah. Since they're so early to the game. So yeah, I love that idea of doing things that don't scale.
00:23:16:23 - 00:23:18:20
Rohan
Talk a bit about,
00:23:19:00 - 00:23:31:19
Rohan
you know, the company values and the core values that you're building at the organization. So I think humanity and transparency is there a story in terms of how you run team meetings or anything else that comes to mind that
00:23:31:23 - 00:23:33:06
Rohan
illustrates these two values?
00:23:33:10 - 00:23:34:05
Dave
Yeah, I think
00:23:34:10 - 00:23:34:21
Dave
so.
00:23:35:02 - 00:23:51:14
Dave
Transparency. We tell our staff everything that's going on. So we we talk about that. We have score sheets. Right. Scorecard. So we call them in us where we have these meetings that happen every week. There's the executive scorecard. There's the
00:23:51:19 - 00:23:58:10
Dave
marketing and sales department scorecard. There's a scorecard for services. And it's like the director level.
00:23:58:16 - 00:24:12:08
Dave
Then there's like the people that are just in each service line. So like search advertising has its own meeting. But then that's the leader of the search team engages with the whole of the services department. Right. In a second out in
00:24:12:12 - 00:24:19:20
Dave
all of those scorecards, which include like what's in our bank balance, how many deals to be close, what kind of clients came and went,
00:24:19:23 - 00:24:23:21
Dave
how are we doing that's available to everyone?
00:24:24:01 - 00:24:26:04
Dave
Anyone can go look at that anytime that they want.
00:24:26:07 - 00:24:29:08
Dave
We also do quarterly, like, hey, here's what's going on in the company.
00:24:29:13 - 00:24:30:19
Dave
Yeah. When it comes to humanity,
00:24:30:22 - 00:24:31:06
Dave
you know,
00:24:31:09 - 00:24:36:23
Dave
there's this thing that is really common for owner founders, and it's really common for large businesses to
00:24:37:04 - 00:24:42:01
Dave
own founders is a little bit different, but, similar expression, which is,
00:24:42:04 - 00:24:45:00
Dave
hey, if you're an owner and founder or you're in a large company,
00:24:45:04 - 00:24:46:15
Dave
it's like, show up and do the thing
00:24:46:19 - 00:24:50:08
Dave
because like, I'm going to show if I'm the owner, founder, I'm going to show up when I have a fever.
00:24:50:14 - 00:24:58:21
Dave
I'm going to show up when I don't feel good, I'm going to show up when everything's imploding at my house. Doesn't matter like I have to in order to pay the bills. Yeah,
00:24:59:01 - 00:25:03:19
Dave
what's easy to forget, especially when you're sub 100 people,
00:25:04:00 - 00:25:09:00
Dave
is like everybody else is doing the same thing, but they don't. No one's going to have your commitment like
00:25:09:03 - 00:25:10:07
Dave
it's just not gonna happen, right?
00:25:10:10 - 00:25:13:15
Dave
Yeah. Everybody brings their full selves
00:25:13:18 - 00:25:14:23
Dave
to every day at work.
00:25:15:02 - 00:25:35:04
Dave
So the argument that they had with their significant other, their kid being sick, maybe their mom called them last night and they don't have a good relationship with their mom. And it was a 15 minute phone call and they imploded. And now they're depressed, right? Yeah.
00:25:35:07 - 00:25:36:01
Dave
So,
00:25:36:06 - 00:25:38:07
Dave
we've had staff
00:25:38:12 - 00:25:40:03
Dave
that they start with us.
00:25:40:08 - 00:25:44:16
Dave
This is a real thing that happened. They start with us. And then a few weeks after starting with us,
00:25:44:20 - 00:25:46:23
Dave
there's a tragedy in their home.
00:25:47:02 - 00:25:49:19
Dave
Right. Somebody
00:25:49:23 - 00:25:50:17
Dave
gets sick.
00:25:50:21 - 00:25:59:09
Dave
Could be, you know, their their spouse could be a parent, could be a kid. They get into a car accident.
00:25:59:12 - 00:26:07:21
Dave
That's one that actually happened. And all of a sudden they've been here for just a small window, and they need lots of help and lots of support
00:26:08:00 - 00:26:17:06
Dave
and so what we've done throughout the years is really crafted a, a culture here at Finch and then at other businesses that I run
00:26:17:10 - 00:26:18:03
Dave
where
00:26:18:06 - 00:26:20:22
Dave
we really sit down and go, okay, we want to help you.
00:26:21:01 - 00:26:26:04
Dave
So this happened to somebody last, late in 25 that came on. They had a tragedy.
00:26:26:07 - 00:26:26:23
Dave
00:26:27:02 - 00:26:29:05
Dave
And then we kind of
00:26:29:10 - 00:26:34:03
Dave
continued this this, this role with them where that tragedy happened,
00:26:34:06 - 00:26:36:01
Dave
like Christmas occurred.
00:26:36:06 - 00:26:37:16
Dave
And another,
00:26:37:20 - 00:26:42:12
Dave
tragedy happened in their life. And so we just said, hey, take time off
00:26:42:15 - 00:26:46:01
Dave
and, we want to be with you.
00:26:46:01 - 00:27:01:12
Dave
So then when they came back, we actually put somebody in the room with them for every client call so that they could have another person that was there just in case, just in case, there was a situation where
00:27:01:16 - 00:27:07:10
Dave
they got emotional and had a call with a client and they couldn't be on camera even after they'd taken off some time.
00:27:07:12 - 00:27:29:14
Dave
Could we come alongside them and and be of service? So, that was a situation that we really helped them kind of walk through. And they're performing at such a high level now. Because it's terrible to go through grief. It's horrible to go through the things that they were going through. And so really part of being an employer and part of being a team teammate to them is really setting up a foundation where
00:27:29:18 - 00:27:39:03
Dave
we can come alongside that person and make sure that they are getting the resources that they need to be successful in their role in the midst of tragedy.
00:27:39:03 - 00:27:43:20
Dave
And so that's a way that we've demonstrated humanity, as an example. And transparency is like
00:27:44:00 - 00:27:58:22
Dave
we have staff members that come in and just tell us the truth, mean I had to put my cat down yesterday. I'm kind of a wreck. Okay. Do you need to take today off, you know, like, transparency is like you're going to be able to see what's going on in my life and speak with me about it.
00:27:58:22 - 00:28:17:05
Dave
Right. And so that's really a key part of what we're up to. And what we're doing is like embodying those core values. Also, being curious, like curiosity leads to transparency and humanity. It's easy when you see somebody, this is a true story. I, I coached my son's basketball team. He's ten.
00:28:17:08 - 00:28:20:16
Dave
And, this was 3 or 4 weeks ago.
00:28:20:17 - 00:28:36:08
Dave
There was this ref that just came in and he was in a bad mood, man. Like just such a bad mood. And I could tell that this guy, like something had happened before he came to the game that he was refereeing. And so I just went over and I was like, I introduced myself as like, hey man, I'm Dave.
00:28:36:08 - 00:28:38:08
Dave
And he's like, pay me over here. Like, couldn't hear him.
00:28:38:11 - 00:28:51:05
Dave
And eventually he was just being rude to the to the boys were ten. He's being rude to the other coach. He's being rude to me. And I just eventually went, hey man, you seem like you had a rough day before you got here. And he goes,
00:28:51:09 - 00:28:52:19
Dave
you know, but, said something.
00:28:52:19 - 00:28:57:04
Dave
I go, hey, man, I just want you to know I appreciate you don't ref of the game. I hope you have a better night.
00:28:57:08 - 00:29:01:10
Dave
And he goes a step. He goes, hey, wait a second. I go, okay? And he goes, hey, thanks for that.
00:29:01:15 - 00:29:08:04
Dave
And it's just showing these core values out in the, in the, environment that we live in too is like really important.
00:29:08:04 - 00:29:23:10
Dave
So there's a way the curiosity, transparency, humanity, impact driven all show up in our work together. And, you know, I kind of went through some of those examples in the stories I shared before with the staff members. But, it's really important to us as a company to be
00:29:23:14 - 00:29:24:06
Dave
a good
00:29:24:11 - 00:29:24:22
Dave
human.
00:29:25:02 - 00:29:39:17
Dave
And that's often lacking in a lot of businesses, is we strip people from the humanity and talk about what can they produce, what can they provide, and it's like, no, man, let's go back to where we all want to be, which is, hey, you really matter, man.
00:29:39:19 - 00:29:42:09
Dave
And like, you matter beyond what you produce.
00:29:42:12 - 00:29:42:20
Rohan
Yeah,
00:29:43:00 - 00:29:46:08
Rohan
yeah, I think so many workplaces are
00:29:46:11 - 00:29:47:13
Rohan
built on this,
00:29:47:17 - 00:29:51:22
Rohan
you know, this fuel source of urgency and,
00:29:52:02 - 00:30:00:20
Rohan
you know, artificial deadlines, and almost like a fear based motivation system and of course, like a business needs to run, it needs to be profitable. It needs to
00:30:01:00 - 00:30:06:11
Rohan
operate in an effective way. And, ultimately, it needs to be a high performing team.
00:30:06:11 - 00:30:07:11
Rohan
It's not a family.
00:30:07:16 - 00:30:17:18
Rohan
At the same time there, especially when we, you know, information, knowledge. Now, intelligence is more abundant than ever. Humans have more leverage than ever. It's
00:30:17:22 - 00:30:21:10
Rohan
a lot of that kind of like scarcity or,
00:30:21:13 - 00:30:22:02
Rohan
yeah. Like,
00:30:22:05 - 00:30:32:21
Rohan
you know, fear based management is detrimental to the future of work and modern workplaces. And I think, like, be the change that we want to see.
00:30:32:21 - 00:30:37:18
Rohan
Right? So it's really just great to, to hear these stories where you show up and you are that person
00:30:37:21 - 00:30:45:05
Rohan
to your team and that you're that leader that is there to hear, you know, their point of view and where they're coming from. And then you also take that
00:30:45:09 - 00:30:50:03
Rohan
into your everyday life, whether it's a, a baseball game for the kids or whatever it might be.
00:30:50:03 - 00:30:50:15
Rohan
It's like,
00:30:50:18 - 00:30:54:06
Rohan
yeah, that's just the person that you are. And it sounds like, that's just,
00:30:54:09 - 00:30:55:18
Rohan
yeah, your state of being.
00:30:55:23 - 00:30:56:20
Rohan
So I appreciate you sharing that.
00:30:57:00 - 00:30:57:09
Dave
Yeah. No.
00:30:57:13 - 00:30:58:01
Rohan
Want to
00:30:58:06 - 00:31:09:18
Rohan
switch gears a bit now? And, kind of shifts into your philosophy around how you like formative life experiences. I know you studied philosophy.
00:31:09:22 - 00:31:13:11
Rohan
You are very much into, you know, mysticism
00:31:13:16 - 00:31:20:05
Rohan
and sounds like you know, the infinite intelligence that we all have available to us. So talk a bit about
00:31:20:09 - 00:31:21:18
Rohan
how that,
00:31:21:22 - 00:31:27:04
Rohan
dimension has entered your life and how you cultivate your.
00:31:27:04 - 00:31:29:23
Rohan
Yeah, that kind of state of being in the day to day.
00:31:30:03 - 00:31:30:13
Dave
Yeah.
00:31:30:17 - 00:31:32:12
Dave
So I, I befuddle people
00:31:32:15 - 00:31:36:06
Dave
because I, I love to talk about business and
00:31:36:11 - 00:31:38:02
Dave
performance and
00:31:38:07 - 00:31:39:05
Dave
I, you know,
00:31:39:10 - 00:31:43:19
Dave
I built a bunch of companies, I've sold a bunch of companies. Nobody's like, oh, I'm gonna put you in a box
00:31:43:22 - 00:31:47:07
Dave
if you really want to get me going, let's talk about the nature of reality.
00:31:47:10 - 00:31:47:18
Dave
Yeah,
00:31:47:22 - 00:31:48:19
Dave
yeah. Like,
00:31:48:22 - 00:31:53:23
Dave
there's this weird thing that we've done that I cannot and will not do,
00:31:54:03 - 00:31:56:12
Dave
which is compartmentalize my life
00:31:56:15 - 00:32:02:06
Dave
where there's, like, there's work and there's family and there's hobbies and there's whatever's left.
00:32:02:06 - 00:32:02:14
Dave
Right.
00:32:02:18 - 00:32:02:21
Dave
And
00:32:03:01 - 00:32:04:15
Dave
and for me, and like, I want them all
00:32:04:18 - 00:32:06:16
Dave
to have balance and space and,
00:32:06:20 - 00:32:07:20
Dave
and for me,
00:32:07:23 - 00:32:10:18
Dave
I grew up in a conservative.
00:32:10:21 - 00:32:14:04
Dave
Military family. So I'm the son of a colonel in the Air Force.
00:32:14:09 - 00:32:19:22
Dave
My my wife is the daughter of an admiral in the Navy.
00:32:20:03 - 00:32:24:21
Dave
And we both grew up really with intense, religious upbringings.
00:32:25:00 - 00:32:28:10
Dave
I actually am an ordained pastor, which makes me laugh,
00:32:28:15 - 00:32:39:19
Dave
at this point in my life. And I really thought that that was the place that I thought my career might go. So I was, like, doing marketing, as an 18 year old, thinking, well, this is going to be the back up,
00:32:39:22 - 00:32:43:03
Dave
you know? Yeah. And just couldn't
00:32:43:07 - 00:32:46:14
Dave
I found out really quickly that I'm not a great professional Christian.
00:32:46:18 - 00:32:54:00
Dave
It's really hard to have your your paycheck tied to your belief system as someone that constantly evolves.
00:32:54:05 - 00:33:01:03
Dave
I just can't do that. And so for me, what I really started to find was
00:33:01:08 - 00:33:03:15
Dave
the mystical traditions of
00:33:03:19 - 00:33:05:17
Dave
pretty much any major religion
00:33:05:21 - 00:33:12:10
Dave
have their own flavors. But good Lord, did they sound and feel and embody a lot of the same ideas.
00:33:12:10 - 00:33:23:15
Dave
And so whether it's Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, you name it,
00:33:23:18 - 00:33:36:19
Dave
there are also all these other ones across like Sikhism, like also has this beautiful, pieces to it. But the Dao like Dao has had this as well. They have this beautiful tradition where effectively the idea is
00:33:36:23 - 00:33:41:00
Dave
we're we're here to help one another, like we're here to do a thing.
00:33:41:03 - 00:33:47:18
Dave
And I believe in my bones that like the drum beats, like the bass note of the universe. Love.
00:33:47:21 - 00:33:51:05
Dave
And I've had many experiences where I can point back to and say, like, that
00:33:51:09 - 00:33:53:06
Dave
seems abundantly evident.
00:33:53:11 - 00:33:56:01
Dave
So when I do this work,
00:33:56:06 - 00:34:03:00
Dave
like when I show up and I run companies or I'm working with a client like that said, the that's the drumbeat.
00:34:03:02 - 00:34:12:04
Dave
I'm not trying to win anybody over. I'm not trying to get one over on some. I'm not trying to make a sale. I literally show up to sales calls when I do and I go, hey,
00:34:12:08 - 00:34:15:07
Dave
here's my CV. I've been in the business 21 years now.
00:34:15:12 - 00:34:18:10
Dave
Here's what I've done.
00:34:18:13 - 00:34:21:01
Dave
I'm just going to give you free consulting if you want to work with this.
00:34:21:01 - 00:34:27:08
Dave
After this, great. If you don't, great. I hope that you take this and you find success with it. Keep what works. Throw away what doesn't.
00:34:27:12 - 00:34:38:00
Dave
And so they go, oh, this is totally different than any sales call I've ever been on. And I go, yeah, that's the idea, man. And so like I just want people to like, dude, I want you to win, brother.
00:34:38:02 - 00:34:50:18
Dave
You know what I mean? Like, I want you to just not just do well for you and your family. I want you to do well for your employees, for the people around you. Because there there is a beauty that I found to most owner founders, not all,
00:34:50:22 - 00:34:56:09
Dave
but to most owner founders. They say some things like this I want to pay my staff more.
00:34:56:11 - 00:35:24:21
Dave
I want to have them. I want to make sure they have better benefits. I want to take care of their families. I want to make sure that everybody has an appropriate work life balance. We can have seasons where it's busy, but for the most part, I want people to have balance. We have a society that is mostly working in small businesses, businesses that have 500 or fewer employees in the US, 69% of us work for those companies, and we have a disproportionate
00:35:25:01 - 00:35:27:05
Dave
amount of lobbying that's being done.
00:35:27:05 - 00:35:34:13
Dave
On the 31% that work for large companies. Very little lobbying is being done on their behalf, small businesses. But that's where we all work.
00:35:34:17 - 00:35:43:04
Dave
Like almost 70% of us, seven out of ten of us work at a small business, and yet we don't have the lobbying power. Of the three out of ten.
00:35:43:08 - 00:35:46:01
Dave
And they're getting things that are working for them.
00:35:46:01 - 00:36:08:11
Dave
And to the, by the way, really fascinating. For every dollar you spend in lobbying, you get $44 back. That's the known stated return on investment on Capitol Hill. Okay. Like it's bananas. And that's happening at the state level. It's happening at your local level too. It's why local and state politics really freakin matter, y'all. Yeah. So when I think about my philosophy,
00:36:08:14 - 00:36:15:07
Dave
it's rooted in this idea of like, love is the thing and it asks a question of us that we rarely answer with
00:36:15:10 - 00:36:17:12
Dave
firm solidarity, which is
00:36:17:15 - 00:36:21:19
Dave
is the Earth and the universe a finite resource,
00:36:21:22 - 00:36:24:01
Dave
or is it infinitely abundant?
00:36:24:01 - 00:36:25:18
Dave
And there is more than enough to go around.
00:36:25:21 - 00:36:29:02
Dave
I think it's the latter, and it's why I get really.
00:36:29:06 - 00:36:30:17
Dave
I understand
00:36:30:20 - 00:36:34:00
Dave
the mentality of a billionaire. I get it
00:36:34:04 - 00:36:42:00
Dave
and I go, you're so afraid and you're playing so small that all you could do was build a bigger part.
00:36:42:04 - 00:36:44:00
Dave
And so I look at them and I go
00:36:44:03 - 00:36:44:23
Dave
sad,
00:36:45:04 - 00:36:46:12
Dave
your life sucks.
00:36:46:16 - 00:37:00:02
Dave
Yeah. And so I think that that's really what drives me every day is like, man, I want more people like yourself to win bigger. The universe got together. We all decided if you make more money, you're going to be more generous. Let's do that.
00:37:00:06 - 00:37:04:22
Dave
Right. It's like, let's throw the shackles off the people that are not being generous,
00:37:05:01 - 00:37:05:06
Dave
man.
00:37:05:06 - 00:37:09:09
Dave
We already know their names. They're like characters in a TV show for us.
00:37:09:13 - 00:37:23:04
Dave
And, you know what I mean? Like, sincerely. It's like a real reality TV show. And every now and again they make an appearance. They do a thing like, oh, that's cool. Or they'll, they'll do something that seems very noble. They'll be like, well, we're giving away $100 million to this charity.
00:37:23:06 - 00:37:29:15
Dave
Okay. Yeah. That's the equivalent of you giving away $1,000. That is generous. That's not crazy.
00:37:29:20 - 00:37:34:09
Dave
And so it's an absurd idea that we've come to. And that's
00:37:34:13 - 00:37:34:23
Dave
anyways,
00:37:35:02 - 00:37:37:09
Dave
that's that's not my job. Interesting.
00:37:37:11 - 00:37:48:23
Rohan
What would you say just on that point? I really love that. I love the idea that love is the base emotion and the people who are the best at what they do it. They do it for the love of it. Right? Reminds me of
00:37:49:03 - 00:37:58:12
Rohan
a Kobe Bryant story, late Kobe Bryant, where this one person he listen to every single interview that Kobe Bryant did, including the very small kind of obscure ones.
00:37:58:12 - 00:38:00:04
Rohan
There's this one time he's on the Japanese
00:38:00:08 - 00:38:03:15
Rohan
podcast. He speaks about a Japanese, and someone asked him,
00:38:03:19 - 00:38:09:12
Rohan
you know, Kobe, you don't seem to have a lot of friends. Like, do you have many friends? Right? And he's like,
00:38:09:15 - 00:38:10:02
Rohan
you know what?
00:38:10:06 - 00:38:12:21
Rohan
I don't have many friends. What I do have
00:38:13:01 - 00:38:14:11
Rohan
our fellow obsessives,
00:38:14:15 - 00:38:23:10
Rohan
because he finds people who are so obsessed with their craft that they just do it for the love of it, for the love of the game, the infinite game of getting better
00:38:23:14 - 00:38:24:17
Rohan
and improving it.
00:38:24:19 - 00:38:27:19
Rohan
So whether it's a filmmaker, a
00:38:27:23 - 00:38:32:03
Rohan
an artist, a writer, an investor,
00:38:32:06 - 00:38:38:16
Rohan
especially as the second half of his career was starting, he would seek these people. I would just call them at all times of the day and night
00:38:38:20 - 00:38:41:07
Rohan
to learn from them, because
00:38:41:11 - 00:38:50:04
Rohan
he loved to find other fellow obsessives who did it for the love of it. So I, I totally agree that love is that base emotion.
00:38:50:04 - 00:38:50:12
Rohan
And
00:38:50:16 - 00:39:05:01
Rohan
also there, yeah, there is so much abundance. Like we really are limited by our thinking. And unfortunately there's so many invisible scripts that have been running since the day we were born that do keep us boxed in. So it's a lot of this unconditional thing
00:39:05:06 - 00:39:10:15
Rohan
that needs to happen that allows us to go back to remembering our true, limitless potential.
00:39:10:17 - 00:39:13:09
Rohan
But you said something about billionaires that I want to clarify. You said.
00:39:13:12 - 00:39:21:02
Rohan
Are billionaires. You're saying that they are. They optimize the wrong thing, which is wealth creation. And in some way that's limiting. I didn't quite fully understand that.
00:39:21:05 - 00:39:32:01
Dave
Yeah. So here's I, I do not personally have any connections to billionaires. I do have some personal connection to 100 billionaires and they had connections by proxy to billionaires.
00:39:32:04 - 00:39:36:11
Dave
Yeah. And, what I found with a hundred billionaires is.
00:39:36:14 - 00:39:38:01
Dave
They're deeply dissatisfied with life,
00:39:38:04 - 00:39:40:15
Dave
deeply dissatisfied with their on
00:39:40:19 - 00:39:41:16
Dave
their
00:39:41:20 - 00:39:43:03
Dave
name. Your third marriage.
00:39:43:08 - 00:39:48:14
Dave
Yeah. They're they're constantly juggling affairs. Like, truly, that's what's going on.
00:39:48:17 - 00:39:49:22
Dave
Men and women by the way.
00:39:50:01 - 00:39:51:21
Dave
They are
00:39:52:02 - 00:40:01:03
Dave
persistently looking for what's going to make them whole. And it's kind of like that thing that happens, right? You're talking about, Kobe,
00:40:01:06 - 00:40:06:19
Dave
you know, every great champion gets to a point where they achieve they won the the title.
00:40:06:23 - 00:40:12:15
Dave
Yeah. And they realized it felt a lot less fulfilling than they thought it was going to feel.
00:40:12:18 - 00:40:14:17
Dave
So they get another one and they yeah,
00:40:14:21 - 00:40:18:00
Dave
realize man, it's a lot less fulfilling than I thought I was
00:40:18:04 - 00:40:18:17
Dave
going to feel.
00:40:18:21 - 00:40:20:17
Dave
And one of the things that I loved about Kobe,
00:40:20:21 - 00:40:23:16
Dave
when he tore his Achilles at like 35, to remember that.
00:40:23:21 - 00:40:24:06
Dave
Yeah.
00:40:24:10 - 00:40:25:03
Dave
And it was
00:40:25:08 - 00:40:27:05
Dave
towards the end of a season, I think. And,
00:40:27:10 - 00:40:29:21
Dave
you know, he had this post at three in the morning
00:40:30:00 - 00:40:34:07
Dave
on social, and I read it every now and again because I just to remind myself.
00:40:34:11 - 00:40:35:12
Dave
Yeah. And
00:40:35:16 - 00:40:38:18
Dave
he basically like goes on this little bit of a rant
00:40:38:22 - 00:40:40:21
Dave
and he's like, well I guess is what social media is for.
00:40:40:21 - 00:40:55:23
Dave
Like my leg feels dead. I'm on these pain meds. They're keeping you up. Like I'm just kind of swimming in this pool of emotions. I just did a step that I've done thousands of times, tens of thousands of times. And yet I get hurt. This time. It feels unfair.
00:40:56:03 - 00:40:59:15
Dave
Will I come back to be a better player while I'm be able to play the same level?
00:40:59:19 - 00:41:02:22
Dave
And he's like, going on this like little bit of a rant and then he's like, but
00:41:03:02 - 00:41:07:13
Dave
I know that tomorrow I'll make it up. I'm going to do the thing, I'm going to get up on my shot. And I think that there's this
00:41:07:18 - 00:41:10:10
Dave
thing that I've realized in myself
00:41:10:14 - 00:41:12:23
Dave
is that I'm not competing with a number.
00:41:13:03 - 00:41:15:00
Dave
I'm not competing with anybody else.
00:41:15:03 - 00:41:18:10
Dave
I'm competing with what's the most beautiful life that I can build,
00:41:18:14 - 00:41:23:02
Dave
and business is a part of that, and it's a meaningful part.
00:41:23:05 - 00:41:24:08
Dave
And dude,
00:41:24:12 - 00:41:25:20
Dave
I've got three kids
00:41:25:23 - 00:41:28:02
Dave
that are going to leave the house soon.
00:41:28:07 - 00:41:30:12
Dave
I'm never going to get my time back with them.
00:41:30:16 - 00:41:38:07
Dave
Like I'm never going to get it back. That the 18 years that you spend with your kids after they leave the house, this is a real this is a real statistic.
00:41:38:07 - 00:41:40:07
Dave
You get one year in total back
00:41:40:11 - 00:41:41:17
Dave
to like this is
00:41:41:20 - 00:41:46:05
Dave
yeah this is happening this. And so I'm like, dude, this is it. This is my time. I,
00:41:46:10 - 00:41:50:13
Dave
have been married going on 18 years this year. Just incredible
00:41:50:17 - 00:41:51:10
Dave
friend like man.
00:41:51:14 - 00:41:52:04
Dave
Thanks, brother.
00:41:52:07 - 00:41:58:15
Dave
We're never going to be in these young bodies again. They're just aging. They're just decaying.
00:41:58:18 - 00:42:01:20
Dave
And I'm not soaking up every second that I get with that
00:42:02:00 - 00:42:17:04
Dave
incredible woman of mine. What am I doing? You know, I'm not going for hikes in the forests that surround me. And soaking up the waterfalls and the rivers and the mountain views and seeing bears and bald eagles like
00:42:17:08 - 00:42:18:16
Dave
we have forgotten.
00:42:18:20 - 00:42:26:12
Dave
We've forgotten that this the point of this life is not to be entertained, not to work ourselves to the bone.
00:42:26:16 - 00:42:40:05
Dave
It's not to make another 100 grand a year. It won't make a difference in your happiness. It's actually to live your life. And there are systemic issues that we do want to push on to make the world easier for everybody to live in. And yeah,
00:42:40:09 - 00:42:44:13
Dave
it's not going to be winning another NBA championship. It's not going to be winning another Lombardi Trophy.
00:42:44:13 - 00:42:59:16
Dave
It's not going to be building up another business and selling it for 150 million. This it's like, no, it's fine. Don't make that the goal. Enjoy the journey. Enjoy the moments. Every day.
00:42:59:18 - 00:43:00:05
Rohan
Preach.
00:43:00:09 - 00:43:01:19
Rohan
Yeah I felt that.
00:43:02:00 - 00:43:05:21
Rohan
I felt that from you. You know it's it really is.
00:43:06:01 - 00:43:15:12
Rohan
We came to have this human experience to live it, not to over intellectualize it, not to accelerate some sort of like a spiritual awakening or deeper understanding
00:43:15:15 - 00:43:21:04
Rohan
or chase or something, because there's a level of incompleteness within us.
00:43:21:08 - 00:43:22:12
Rohan
There is,
00:43:22:17 - 00:43:24:18
Rohan
what I've learned is there's
00:43:24:22 - 00:43:31:23
Rohan
whether it's awakening, whether it's abundance in different dimensions of life, relationship, finances, business.
00:43:32:04 - 00:43:33:21
Rohan
It comes from a level of
00:43:34:00 - 00:43:35:05
Rohan
of balance,
00:43:35:09 - 00:43:45:02
Rohan
finding the right people that you want to do life with. And then also in those moments where you are working, I just being so present and doing it for
00:43:45:05 - 00:43:57:23
Rohan
the love of like the moment to moment work itself and like if you can find work that is so aligned that you've got this kind of tailwind behind you that you feel so excited to just be of service to people.
00:43:58:02 - 00:44:01:01
Rohan
I think that's going back like that's what the Scripture talks about. Like,
00:44:01:04 - 00:44:16:08
Rohan
you know, when we can be of service to others. That is the, the ultimate fountain of of of energy, like it's limitless. And we continue to get enlivened by being of service to others and then also enjoying life. Right? We're being of service to ourselves,
00:44:16:12 - 00:44:17:12
Rohan
in that way too.
00:44:17:12 - 00:44:17:21
Rohan
So,
00:44:18:01 - 00:44:24:04
Rohan
Dave, this has been so great. Thank you so much. And as you wrap it up here, where can folks,
00:44:24:07 - 00:44:30:09
Rohan
find you if they want to learn more, we'll link your website and your LinkedIn. But is there anywhere else you want to direct folks?
00:44:30:12 - 00:44:31:06
Dave
Yeah. So
00:44:31:09 - 00:44:33:11
Dave
if you want to drop me an email, Dave
00:44:33:15 - 00:44:37:11
Dave
valentine@finch.com. Finch, like the bird.
00:44:37:14 - 00:44:38:22
Dave
We will run
00:44:39:03 - 00:44:42:10
Dave
an ad campaign for you for three months
00:44:42:13 - 00:44:58:22
Dave
for 500 bucks a month, which is well below our normal, price point. But it's really just a way to, helps more people out. Just drop the name, the podcast and the email headlines so I know, what you're coming in for and, love to chat to chat with you about that.
00:44:59:03 - 00:45:10:14
Dave
You know, you can find me on LinkedIn, TikTok as well. At Real Devil. And, Yeah, just super excited to be on brother. So grateful to be here with you and so excited for what you got going on.
00:45:10:18 - 00:45:14:09
Rohan
Thank you Dave, this has been great conversation. Appreciate it.