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Exploring Aging
Have you found yourself in a rapidly changing family dynamic? You know for years, your parents have cared for so many in your family, but now you find yourself not only caring for your children, but you're becoming more and more of a caregiver to your elderly parents. If you find yourself caring for your elderly parents and caring for your children at the same time, you, my friend, are part of the sandwich generation. The caring for elderly parents can be rewarding, and man, it can really be challenging. Are you prepared to take on this new role?
Ray:No doubt you love your family, but do you have the time and the resources to do it all? On this edition of the Exploring Aging podcast, we will take a look at the many challenges faced by today's sandwich generation. Related to aging adults. And on today's program, we're going to look at things from a bit of a different perspective. What is it like to be a part of the sandwich generation?
Ray:The sandwich generation includes anyone that finds themselves providing caregiving to their elderly parents, as well as younger family members, all at the same time. Did I get your attention? Does this sound like you or someone you know? Then welcome to the Exploring Aging podcast. I think you will enjoy today's show.
Ray:You know, I'm your host, Ray Sanders. And joining me to unpack, not a sandwich, but to unpack this topic are 2 guys I know that you guys all love and I certainly do. That's doctor Pierce and Greg LeNeese.
Greg:Good to be here. Hey. We're glad to be here today.
Ray:So did you guys pack a lunch?
Greg:Yes, but it's probably not healthy.
Ray:So Well, we're gonna unpack it today. We're gonna talk about the sandwich generation and I appreciate you guys being here. But one of the things, you know, we're known for is busting myths and regarding issues that are related to aging. So today, I wanna bust myth number 6, the sandwich generation. The sandwich generation is stuck and has no options, few options, when it comes to providing quality care for their aging parents.
Ray:That's the myth that I wanna bust. They don't have any options. They're just stuck. They're like a big thick piece of baloney in between 2 pieces of white bread. And maybe if you're like me, it might have had a tomato or maybe an onion in here.
Ray:They're just stuck with it. You know? They're just they're just squeezed between their kids and their parents. But here's what we know. Get this, 25% of 65 year olds will live past age 90.
Ray:10% will live past age 95. The number of Americans over age 80 5 is increasing faster than any other age group. Americans are simply living longer. As a result, more and more adults are becoming caregivers for their parents. Can you guys relate?
Ray:Absolutely. A whole new set of issues are making their way into the modern family dynamic. And that's what we're going to be dealing with. So can you guys share some thoughts on the challenges that are facing the sandwich generation.
Bill:Well, you called it a challenge and it is that. It is a big challenge. But I think you can get your arms around it. It's a it reminds me of a juggler, you know, got all those balls in the air. You you've been raising you've been raising children for so many years, and now you have this other challenge that you're adding.
Bill:And so you gotta you gotta learn how to juggle even more balls in in the air. And one of the things you have to realize is that as you come to that time, you probably don't know a lot about caring for your aging parents. Yeah. That's probably something you don't know very much about.
Ray:Right.
Bill:So you have to learn about that. And as you learn about that, you can become better at it.
Ray:You know, Bill, I don't know about you, but when I had my first child, when, we were about to leave the hospital, they handed us a manual and said, this is all you need to know about how to raise kids. Yeah. Did you get that one?
Bill:Yes. Got that.
Ray:You got one? The thing I've noticed, they didn't do that. And it's the same way when it comes to our parents. It's it's new territory. It's new territory.
Ray:It's new territory. Different different dynamic. So And right I'll even
Greg:say it's not it can't be placed into one particular category. So when you're in that sandwich generation, you're dealing with time issues. You're dealing with creating balance. You're creating, there are financial issues. There are health care issues.
Greg:I mean, so so whether it's with your aging parent or with your own children, you're dealing with all those things at the very same time. And so, it's not that you can take the idea of a sandwich generation and go, oh, it's this or it's that. It is multifaceted and it is broad. It is so broad. So it would be good for us to have that discussion.
Ray:Well, I think a lot of people are that maybe listening are going, what happened? You know, I got my kids out of high school, got them out of college and now I'm in this issue, this season where I'm I'm still dealing with that, but I'm also dealing with my parents. And it's not necessarily bad. It's just how do I adjust my lifestyle to accommodate it? You know?
Ray:And it it's maybe a little easier if you live in, you know, in the on the prairie where we do, where a lot of our parents aren't too far away from us. But let's be honest. You know, my my mother lives 6 a 16th of a mile for me. There's times it's hard for me to get to her for things that she needs. And you know what?
Ray:She doesn't wanna bother me either.
Bill:Right.
Ray:You know, compound that by the fact that you live 70 miles away. Or what if you're in Oklahoma, but your mother's in, California or in Louisiana? How does that compound things? Or what if your brother or sister are with your mother and you're in another town, you feel guilty because they're having to do everything, thing, us to the first thing, Bill, and I think you were gonna talk about it, and that is that communication and conflict resolution is a big deal. I mean, what do we do there?
Bill:Yeah. We we need to learn how to talk to our parents for sure. They they don't they don't wanna admit weaknesses. And they don't wanna admit that they have challenges. And they make you spot them.
Bill:They make you, see them yourself. They won't necessarily tell you about them, And, so communication is a big deal. So, more frequent communication between you and your parents is important. I love it when people tell me, I talk to my dad every day, or do I talk to my dad once a week? Mhmm.
Bill:And we have a great conversation. And I think doing that helps them express what their needs are.
Ray:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Bill:So communication's really important, and education's a big part of it too. I think a wise person learns how to take care of their parents and their needs ahead of knowing about the needs. I see so many people that call and say, we don't know what to do. We don't know what to do. You know, we don't know what to do is usually not a very good place to be in.
Bill:So but that's what they say. We don't know the first thing Yeah. What to do about this. And so learning that is, is important.
Ray:And asking good questions, being involved in their life. I mean, I think about my own mother. I think all of us wanna be as independent as we can for as long as we are. That's right. And having to reach out to your kids can sometimes be, you know, a little not embarrassing, but you don't wanna be a burden.
Ray:And I've had to have conversations with my mom. It's like, look, there's nothing I'd rather do more than than love you and serve you. You're not a burden. This is a joy. I wanna have the memories that, that I I wanna have with you.
Ray:There's something funny that we do, and it's gonna come up here a little bit when we talk about siblings. But, you know, sometimes I'll go over and my mom will have me change her filters in her in her house. Or I mean, seriously, last week, I changed a light bulb.
Bill:Mhmm.
Ray:Do I want my mother at her age climbing up on a ladder changing a light bulb? Are you kidding me? Right. No. But the joke we always have is I tell her, say, now mom, get the angle just right.
Ray:I want you to take a picture of me changing out the filter. I want you to get a picture of me, changing out the light bulb. And you know what I wanted to do with it? I wanted to send it to my brother. And I wanted to say, well, I guess he just earned a little larger piece of the inheritance.
Ray:That's right. And we're gonna talk about that a little bit. But it's all about communication and I jest. But if you're if you're someone that's out there and you're having to maybe rely on your kids a little bit, hey. They love you.
Ray:They wanna be involved. And if and if you're the the the kid that's out there and you're you're in the sandwich too, then, you know, it's okay. Help them, ease them over it, and just love them as best you can.
Greg:You know, Ray, I think we gotta remember that generational cohort of our older adults today, as a generation, they were the we're gonna pull ourselves up by the bootstrap. We are independent. We don't want to ask. We won't ask for help. That that mantra has not only been lifelong, it is still in effect.
Greg:And so they don't want to ask for help because they're independent. So so I think those of us who are younger have to remember, there is a cultural philosophy that is different than those of us who are younger today, that goes, I can do this on my own and I will do it on my own.
Ray:Which brings us to the other issue that we want to address here and that's empathy. Talk about that. I mean, that you're being empathetic.
Greg:Yes.
Ray:Seeing it from their perspective, their feelings related to it. Talk about that a little bit.
Greg:Yeah. And I think it's important. I think we have to help our parents, understand, you know what? I really do have your best interest at heart. Mhmm.
Greg:It's gonna take some time. They're gonna have to you're gonna have to show them, you know, what you really do. You may say it, but as we all know, actions speak louder than words. And so if we can do things physically to convey to our parent, you know what? I really do have your best interest at heart.
Greg:I don't mind coming over and changing those light bulbs that you just talked about. I don't mind coming over and cleaning the gutters or whatever the case may be, but I think it's gonna take some time for them to go, you know what? They really do have my best interests at heart.
Ray:Yeah. It's not easy. You know, letting loose on some things. And, but it's okay because we wanna we wanna do that. It's a it's an op an opportunity to honor them.
Ray:My dad has since passed. My mom and dad, they divorced. And one some of my greatest memories in my dad's latter years was going to the grocery store for him. And going to the grocery store and putting the food into his refrigerator. Yeah.
Ray:I that's some of my greatest memories. That's awesome. Is doing that. You know? Let us do it, mom and dad.
Ray:Let us do it. Now if you if you don't have time to do it, there are some other options. And maybe you wanna share some of that burden, which brings us to the next thing.
Greg:Yes.
Ray:How about those wonderful siblings? Maybe if you're not an only child, you probably have some siblings. What do we do when it comes to siblings? There's a lot of issues. This is like fireworks if we're not careful.
Bill:Yeah. There are some families that are really good at it, and are some families not so good at it. Mhmm. And it's it is a really it it's a really good experience if you work together. And some people are better at at other at things than others are.
Bill:Some some of the maybe one sibling's good at finances, tend we had a tendency to sit down and talk about our parents. We would we would spend an hour, and we'd talk about our parents, and we'd talk about what their needs were, and we'd figure it out together. It wasn't always without without tension. Not always. Right.
Bill:But at the end of the meeting, we usually had a plan that would work for my mom and dad.
Ray:Well, we have to realize, and we probably know this, we have siblings, opinions are gonna vary.
Greg:Sure.
Ray:We're not gonna agree on everything. Intentions are gonna be there. But as best we can, we need to work through it. I like one of the suggestions I heard, and you you alluded to this, and that is to figure out what each sibling can bring to the table and contribute. Some are better at finances.
Ray:Some are better with handyman activities. You know? My brother happens to live about a 100 miles from where my mother is. She's a 16th of a mile from me. My brother's very engaged, calls my mother every day.
Ray:He loves my mom as much as I do. I can promise you that. Mhmm. And if he lived a 16th of a mile from her, he would he would probably do some of the very same things that that I would do. Now there's an old joke that went around about a college kid that went off to college, and he sent a note back to his to his dad.
Ray:He said, no Mun, no fun, your son. And the dad sent back a note, too bad, so sad, you're a dad. And I'm joking here, but I say, you know, maybe sometimes it is. If you can't be there physically, maybe it is helping out financially. Maybe it is maybe providing some services, making some services available when you can't be You could even be let me put it this way.
Ray:You could be a 16th of a of a mile from your mother or your father, or you could be a 160 miles from your mother and your father. And it may be worth looking at some services outside that might be able to assist you at a reasonable rate that relieves pressure, on you. And your parents might be thinking, you know what? I'm so glad I had the other handyman come, and I didn't you didn't have to take off work. Sure.
Ray:So there's ways to work through this.
Greg:Right. You know what? I would also before we move forward Sure. Just I I think for those that are walking through the Sandwich Generation and as a if you're that adult child and you've got siblings, maybe they're local, maybe they're not local. But I think, as we talked about communication between you and your aging parent, the the need for communication between you and your siblings and doctor Pierce talked about he and his brothers.
Greg:But you know what? Nowadays, we've got FaceTime. We've got, you know, things that you can do, virtual conversations and meetings together as a sibling group. I think that's key because sometimes when you kinda are doing face to face conversations, sometimes it's a little more, people understand better as opposed to if it's just if it's just on the phone, somebody can make a comment and it just goes without any kind of, repercussions. But when people are face to face and talking and see one another, there's a little more empathy.
Greg:There's a little more of a drive of we're gonna work on this together. And so my encouragement is for those who are walking through this, do some face to face, whether it's a weekly, a biweekly conversation meeting with your siblings, to give an update on that loved one, that's important kind of stuff. I think my what I hate the most think about this. For those who are walking the sandwich generation and they are the only child
Ray:Oh, man.
Greg:And there is not anyone to bounce ideas off of and their plate just continues to get it seems to be more full, more full, and where's the breaking point? And, that's where I say, you know, it's important to find you've gotta be able to talk through some things. You've gotta be able to have somebody you can just say, am I crazy? And be able to talk through that, kind of deal. So I I think it's important.
Ray:So who would they talk to?
Greg:You know, I think at that point, it's just like, they could talk to friends. It may be that they're even talking to a maybe it's an extended family member who understands the aging, age of loved one. Maybe it's a, like I said, a friend of that, person in the sandwich generation, but maybe it's maybe it's that spouse of that person who's walking through that in that sandwich generation. While it seems to try and you go, oh, that no one I mean, no one would never not speak to their spouse. Well, you know, sometimes you just go, this is my this is my family, my deal, and so I'm not gonna bring my spouse into that.
Greg:You know what? That's what we're here for. And so let your spouse breathe into that and say, you know what? Honey, you're not crazy. This is this is where we are.
Greg:Let me help you. Let me go take care of whatever for and you don't have to worry about it.
Ray:Well, I can tell you this. When I go to hang out with some of my peers, a lot of times, this is the
Bill:topic. Mhmm.
Ray:What are you guys doing to take care of your parents? You know, how do we love on them? How do we you know, it's about dignity Yes. You know, and honor. Mhmm.
Ray:And we wanna we wanna continue to provide that. That's how I wanna be treated. Mhmm. You know?
Bill:It takes a team. And, even the sandwich generation, even your kids, getting them involved in also being a part of the the challenge solutions and serving their grandparent is really important here.
Ray:Can I just say my kids love to help my mother?
Greg:Yes.
Ray:I mean, they love that opportunity and my mother gets a kick out of it too. Sure. You know? You know, we don't wanna get caught by surprise, and we're all aging. But somehow, we need to plan ahead better.
Ray:And that's one of the other keys to this being in the sandwich generation is that, you know, failing to plan is planning to fail. And we just can't stick our head in the sands and and wiggle our feet. Right? What what what can we do to kind of get out ahead of this and not just wait until
Bill:it's too late? Well, you have you certainly have to be observant, and you have to listen, and you have to watch for needs. And, usually usually, if you'll if you'll do that, you can begin to offer some assistance where it's needed and not reach a crisis where you have to do something right now, and it's not it's not making a decision you wanna make. But it's helping people along the way, getting involved. You know, you we talked about that that sibling that lives close and the ones that live far away.
Bill:Usually, the the usually, the biggest challenge falls on the person that lives very close.
Ray:Right.
Bill:Sometimes the siblings will let that person do nearly everything, and we really can't do that. Right. It has to be a shared experience. We all have to be speaking into our parents' lives, even the grandchildren. Matter how old they are, want to have something a little bit more and back to the challenges, and back to the needs, just being there and getting involved in our in our parents' lives.
Bill:And then, we can't help but be observant, and we begin to see the needs. It takes a team, and we may even have to bring in people who are professionals to help with some of the things, like helping them along the way with with, meals and and house cleaning and and things like that.
Ray:Of course.
Greg:You know, I I would say doctor Pierce, you're so on point with that. That if if if you as a family work through and walk through life, if you will, but you begin to see things and you begin to take notice of things, you're gonna be able to create a plan and create a if this if this and this and this, we've got some direction. Crisis and as I work with families, I say, crisis does 3 things. 1, it costs a lot of money, I mean, because you're quickly making decisions. And secondly, many times, those decisions, they're just temporary.
Greg:They're just to get you through this immediate phase and you're gonna have to then figure out a long term solution. So it's temporary, it's costly, and it's emotional. And so when you think about a crisis happening in the life of your family, those three things have to be addressed, where if you've got a plan, some of that can be negated, very much so. Some of
Ray:the more practical things that come to mind for me, I mean, you mentioned some, doctor Pierce, and that is sometimes meals, chores, but this is a big one and we'll probably do a whole show on this and that is driving. I mean, this is something we need to talk to our parents about, you know, driving, when to drive. My mother, she's a loyal church member. And it's not just about driving. It's like she's gonna get out on the ice.
Ray:I mean, she's gonna do it. You know? I'm like, mom Because
Greg:the doors are
Ray:open. The doors are open. I'm gonna be there. And so those kind of things. But then there's the legal affairs.
Ray:You know, these are not necessarily fun, but, I've gone to my to to the attorney with my mother to help her. What are you hearing? So we'll go to doctor appointments. I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you right now, I I don't mind somebody going with me that I trust to do my legal appointments as well as my doctor's appointments. There's nothing wrong with that.
Ray:But that's kinda getting your house in order even now, not when it's too late. Okay. We're talking about the sandwich generation. There's something that's you know, we think we we can do it all. We're Superman.
Ray:We're Superwoman. We're red blooded Americans. You know, I I I got more in the tank, all that. But we have to take care of ourselves too. Mhmm.
Ray:The sandwich generation needs to realize there are limits. We do have capacity issues. What what can you say about this?
Greg:You know, I would before we kind of jump off into some things, if we don't as a as a person in that sandwich generation, if we don't kinda keep things in perspective, just as we talked about grandchildren being a part of the solution, if our total focus becomes our aging parent to the detriment of our kiddos, then they're gonna go, is there is there some resentment that begins to kinda come into that family dynamic because mom or dad doesn't give enough time and effort, energies to me as a child. Everything goes to the grandparent. And so it's it's a difficult sandwich generation, you know, adult, you gotta think about that. It's that as I said earlier, it's the balance. Where do you find balance?
Greg:And you've gotta take care of yourself, your family, your that the gods given to you, your children, are so, so important.
Bill:Yeah. I think that I think, there are people, there are some of our parents, will expect every moment of our time
Ray:if we let them.
Bill:And so there so there is a fine line. Yeah. And you do have to take care of yourself. And that's not different than raising kids, is it?
Ray:That's really true.
Bill:So you do have to take care of yourselves. I think one of the things that's out there today that can be really helpful to people is that there's something called respite. Mhmm. A caregiver can come to the home, you can go on a trip, and you don't really have to worry too much about your parent while you're on the trip. Mhmm.
Bill:I've also seen situations where trying to work and take care of the sandwich generation becomes both the children and the and the parents becomes a very challenging situation. I've I've actually seen people lose their jobs
Ray:Mhmm.
Bill:Because they've tried to juggle Mhmm. These things, and it's been impossible. I've seen people who move in with their parents, and they give and give and give, and they began to fail to take care of their themselves. Yeah. And so that that's a huge consideration.
Bill:And sometimes, the health challenges come to the to the child before before they come to the parent. The parent. And it becomes very, very difficult. So all these things had to be taken in consideration. It's a fine line, and you do have to take care of yourself.
Ray:It's about knowing your limits.
Bill:Sure.
Ray:And if you don't know your limits, eventually what's gonna happen, it can happen to anyone and you can burn out.
Bill:Mhmm.
Ray:And and you wanna be, you know, on top of your game. I'm gonna confess to you, I have been frustrated at times with my mother. I mean, just frustrated. And I have ashamedly spoke to her in ways that I should not have out of frustration and probably not really burnout, but just Fatigue. Well, fatigue or being in the middle of this this sandwich and somebody pressed my white bread a little harder than I wanted.
Ray:I mean, I'm a human being. I'm being real.
Greg:That's right.
Ray:And I and I think that there's a lot of people out there that like, man, I my mom or my dad, I love them to death, but sometimes it's just doggone frustrating. Mhmm. And, that's okay. Work through that. But I love the idea of respite.
Ray:Now You want on
Greg:the respite idea, I think as we think about the local church Mhmm. What a great ministry for a church to say, we are going to be involved in respite ministry to our own body. Mhmm. I mean, what a great ministry. You're you're serving that family.
Greg:You're serving that older adult. They're members of the church, that extended family. There is a ministry model there. It's not widely done in our churches, but man, what a huge ministry to provide respite care within your own church body. Big deal.
Greg:That's a big deal that could be done.
Ray:Well, I think part of where this is directing us is that you can't do it all. Correct. You need to share the load. You know, sometimes we say, Lord, I don't know how much more I can take. And I always ask for the Lord to strengthen my legs and strengthen my back.
Ray:But even then, we all have limits and it might be siblings, it might be friends and otherwise. I'd like to touch on one last little thing here and that is outside resources. What what can you tell us about outside resources if you just wanna touch on that?
Greg:Sure.
Ray:What would you say about that?
Bill:Well, we it goes back to what I said before. It takes a team. And so you have to bring people in to be a part of that team. There are a number of organizations out there. Baptist Village Communities has one called Entrusted Hearts.
Ray:Okay.
Bill:And Entrusted Hearts could come alongside a a person and help them with the needs that they have, the activities of daily living, the bathing, dressing, those kind of things that are challenging, and a family member can't always be around. Meal preparation, even companionship, Ray. I say again, one of the most important things for anyone, but especially an older adult, is to have something to look forward to. So when someone's coming to see you, that's something to look forward to. When you know somebody's gonna call you, that's something to look forward to.
Bill:But we actually have people who go and serve as companions, and they go and spend a couple hours at somebody's house, and they do what they want to do. It's not sitting there watching TV. It's chatting. It's having a discussion. It's playing games.
Bill:It's, working crossword puzzles. It's those kind of things. You would be amazed at how that lifts a person's spirits.
Ray:Well, I can tell you I know it lifts a person's spirits because, my dad had meals on wheels, and he was in hospice. And, I was there when they delivered those meals and my dad would light up. And of course
Greg:Bright spot of the day.
Ray:It was. I mean, I was there and I kinda got jealous. I'm like, you know, I guess I need to bring a clamshell with some food in it and maybe I'll get the same kind of greeting, you know? But this is a this is a service that I you know, we're almost out of time here today. This is a service I think warrants another show.
Ray:I think we ought to unpack this. This is a topic I'm gonna tell you. I'm gonna tell you. When I learned about it in Trusted Hearts, I'm like, that is a great service. We're not gonna have time to get into it today, but I think there's a lot of people out there.
Ray:Their ears just burped up. Wait a minute. There's some that sounds interesting. I think my mom or my dad might actually enjoy that. They may be tired of seeing me.
Ray:I'm joking. But at the same time, it might be a great way if my parents live real close, they live a 100 miles, maybe a1000 miles away, that we have some options for them in terms of, taking care of some of those needs.
Greg:That's true.
Ray:Well, you know what, guys? We've done it again. We've run out of time. And I'd like to thank you guys for all your great ideas. It's always fun to these are topics and issues that are real.
Ray:These are things that we're dealing with. These are topics that, you don't always talk about, you know, all the time. And I think these are topics that people are interested in and especially think about it. Being a part of the sandwich generation. I didn't know that term until the show.
Ray:I really did. The sandwich generation? I'm thinking, is that like a latchkey kid? I mean, I think I'm part of the sandwich generation. I remember taking my little lunchbox to school and having that little sandwich in there, but that's what we're
Greg:talking about.
Ray:Different sandwich. Different sandwich, and we are a sandwich. So, I think today's podcast provided a wealth of good information. And so thank you for joining us on this edition of the Exploring Aging podcast. If you'd like more information on today's topics or the services of Entrusting Hearts, reach out to Bill and Greg atbaptistvillage.org.
Ray:Until next time, stay active and stay informed as we explore the realities of aging on the Exploring Aging podcast.