Divorce and Real Estate

In this episode, we dive into the powerful intersection of divorce and real estate with realtor Jennifer Cheney and divorce mediator Laura McGee. Discover how empathy, long-term thinking, and the right partnerships can turn a challenging niche into a purposeful, thriving business.

Creators and Guests

Host

Justin Stoddart

What is Think Bigger Real Estate?

The road to success for real estate agents is well-marked. The road to significance is not. Here, we help you to Think Bigger than just your business. We inspire you to seek success AND significance, income AND impact. We do that by interviewing the biggest thinkers and highest achievers in the real estate industry, extracting the secrets to having it all.

Justin Stoddart 0:00
Welcome back everybody to the Think bigger real estate podcast. I'm your host. Justin Stoddart, excited about today's topic, divorce in real estate. Let's be honest, it's unfortunate that there are more and more divorces happening around us. I'm hearing it all the time with clients that we serve, with real estate agents that you know that we serve around the country. And it's important to recognize that you can either do a people a great disservice or service based on how you help them navigate through this process. So on today's episode, I have two incredible guests who are masters at helping people through this process, and I'm going to introduce them to you now. First, we have Laura McGee, who's a divorce mediator and coach. She's out of the San Diego market, absolutely in high, high demand, so much demand that she can't necessarily even serve all that demand. But she's she's amazing, and I hear wonderful things about her from her partner, Jennifer Cheney, who's become a dear friend of mine, San Diego realtor, divorce specialist. Ladies, I'm so excited to have you here. We've been working on this for a long time, of getting both of you in the room here, and I'm just thrilled to to have you both here. So thank you for committing some time to really teach the real estate agents in this audience how to navigate this and really help people to benefit from from great expert service during this difficult time in their

Speaker 1 1:15
lives. Absolutely happy to be here. Thank you. Yes. Thanks,

Justin Stoddart 1:19
Justin, yeah, it's my pleasure. I'm Jennifer. When I first met you, it's probably been two years ago, you would position yourself right away as somebody who specialized in divorce, and I quickly learned from you that part of that was because you had gone through one yourself, and you realized that it wasn't smooth waters necessarily, right, right? Can you talk us through a little bit about that. What caused you to want to not just obviously get through your own divorce, but then reach back, I would say, send the elevator down and help other people rise above that as well.

Speaker 2 1:52
Yeah. So first thing, I've been in the business a very long time, 22 years, and I've rode the wave of different markets. And at the time of my divorce, it kind of started in 2019, and at the time of that, I was also having burnout in real estate, as we all do, and I just felt that I was doing good business, but it wasn't purposeful for me for some odd reason, and I didn't know what it was. And so Laura was actually my mediator in my divorce, yes, and we ended up getting divorced at the beginning of 2020, and through that process, I just had this thing in the back of my head that, you know, I was burnt out from real estate, and I wanted to rebuild differently. I wanted to rebuild with intention. I wanted to rebuild with a purpose, and I did feel like I didn't even know what I didn't know until I went through the divorce process in regards to the home, because I was the one that wanted divorce. I was so already emotionally gone. But what I did not expect is my husband bought me out of the the home, and I had so much emotional attachment that I did not even know or understand at the beginning, that I was detaching for a very long time after that with the house, not even the person. Unfortunately, that's a bad thing to say, but I was your identity is caught up in the house, and we know that as realtors, but you add a layer of divorce, you know, on to to that, and it takes you to a whole nother level. So what happens is people can't make proper decisions. They're making emotional decisions when it comes to the home, and they cannot separate in a divorce to make the right financial decision. And if I had to go do it all over again, I would do it completely different. So in that process of my divorce, I got divorced, and then I called up Laura one day and I said, Can I bring you coffee? Because I feel like there's something here. I feel like this is my purpose, and I didn't know what it was. And so I sat down with Laura and I said, Thank you for the process of getting me divorced, and I want to do something with real estate. What can I do? Can I help your people? And she connected me with a national organization that we are both in, and we do a lot of educating and empowering around divorce, so that it's not as scary, you know, as unfortunately it is, because it is a life altering, scary thing, and we just do a really good service. And so now her and I have partnered up in the last, what, three, four years, and do a lot of business together, and it's a great team.

Justin Stoddart 4:30
Yeah, you know, I'd love to hear your side of the story, Laura, because obviously I'm learning some things about how you guys came together they didn't know before, which is fascinating, because you work together first in a in a client relationship right now, really in a in a strategic partner relationship. So please do share. How did this all kind of play out for you?

Speaker 1 4:47
Yeah, you know when Jennifer called me up and said, Laura, can I bring you coffee and pick your brain? Kind of thing I went, please do, because first of all, as a mediator, I know that part of my value is having. Credible people on my team that I know I trust and that are highly referable. So my value is increased by the value of people I'm connected to. And when Jennifer showed up, I'm like this dynamic, like, so thoughtful, so intelligent, so beyond like so many realtors are not business people. And what I learned very quickly about Jennifer, she had a very like, really in touch, partly from her own experience, but partly as a business person, and an empathy for those going through this. I'm like, Oh, my God, these are all the components. Because when you are selling a home, or even thinking about selling a home, or trying to decide, like Jennifer's created, should I sell? Or should I should I stay? Or should I go? Now? Exactly that a theme song for that. You know that you have to work with a realtor who's trusted, who's got their real, you know, heartbeat connected to the market, and isn't just making up some $100,000 range. Here's what your house is worth. And most people that are divorcing because the divorce age right now, the most of the people are divorcing are actually over 50. Most of them have a home. And so guess what? We need to know what that home's worth before we can begin a negotiation. And it's typically one of the largest, if not the largest, assets, especially here in Southern California, where the market's gone bananas. You know, everybody has massive equity, low interest loans. Nobody wants out, but they want a divorce anyway. So it's, it's complex set of problems. And so really aligning with Jennifer and we just were like a Mago, we just see each other's brains and think I this is a person I know, I like, I trust, high, referable, what she produces for my clients. I mean, I get such great feedback. They're like, Oh, wow. I feel like I feel so well cared for. And I feel like she's not just trying to sell me, she's actually trying to understand what my needs and wants are. Yeah,

Justin Stoddart 6:57
you both have hit on a common thread here. Sometimes I'll hear people say real estate agents who maybe I have less admiration for is, which is, I want to serve people who are going through divorce because it's one sale and two purchases. They're simply looking at it from a business case standpoint. And I feel like there's a severe disconnect from what both of you discuss, which is the empathy and the purpose behind it. I think you both, maybe I've shared with you a story of a coaching client of mine at one point said she wanted to pursue that because she had had gone through a divorce, and later, someone else in my coaching circle said, Yeah, I think I'm going to two because I see again, one sale, two purchases. Makes a lot of sense. That second person came back after their first line. They're like, I don't I don't like that. That was hard, right? Like it was people didn't want to talk, and all of a sudden I'm having to talk for them. And it was like, just this tension. And the the first agent came back and said, No, no, no, you don't understand. That's why I need to be there. Like I went through a divorce. I know how hard it is, and for me, it was the end of a chapter, right? And not the end of the book. And I need, I need to be able to tell people that it's going to be okay, and the chapters ending, yes, it was a great chapter. Maybe it was a tough chapter, and now it's time to write the next one. And she said, for me, that's purpose, so that what I heard you say, Jennifer, is exactly that it's like I'm in it, so that I can have more purpose in my business. And I went through something hard, and now I want to help other people through something hard, which gives me great

Speaker 2 8:27
purpose. I just got a text from a client that I did a buyout for. So in one thing in this niche is that I do a lot of buyouts, and it is the long term game for realtors. So people getting in this niche thinking it's a quick fix, or, you know, in quick to get a sale or transaction, are very, very wrong, because you have to understand the mindset of these people is they want to keep the house. They first start off not liking me, then they like me, the more value, you know, and empathy I provide to them. But they want to keep the house. Nobody wants to go through a divorce and lose their house. So that's their mindset going into it. So it always starts off with, I'm buying out my spouse. All right, let's go down that road. So I have to go down that road with them, and as we all know, do a lot of work on the front end, not knowing if that person is really going to be able to buy out that x, or if they're going to then sell and so a lot of times it is probably 5050, I've done way more, you know, CMA and buyouts than I have the sale of it, but those people will eventually come back to me. So just yesterday, I got a text from a lady that I did a buyout for, but her husband actually bought her out, and she was thinking about going to purchase, and she said, I think I need to land for a little bit. I said, Please do I landed in a rental for a few years until I rebuilt, and then got remarried, and had no idea I was going to get remarried, and then we bought a house. So renting is okay to land. In a soft place. And she kept saying, I don't think this is right. I don't I don't think I can do that. And I walked her through that step, it's okay. And she just sent me a text saying, I can't believe you were right. I was able to disconnect from this ocean view house, but I landed in a rental. It's small, it's manageable. I love it. She's calling it the summer house. It's like her, you know, little, you know, rebuild, you know, kind of story. She's like, I told the kids about it. She's like, I will buy with you. You know, that was the first thing out of her mouth. But I'm so glad you told me that renting is okay. And so that's the reality of this niche. I mean, it's not going to be a short term, you know, win. So,

Justin Stoddart 10:40
Laura, what would you add to that? I'm sure you see conversations and struggles and then hopefully the happy outcome that people get to a happy place, right?

Speaker 1 10:49
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, one of the things I admire about Jennifer is she realizes that working with divorced clients can be a long game, and I think that it really respects the client's needs, and people have to process, you know, giving up your home is a lot to process, and there's school districts involved, and just, you know, that was my garden and everything else. There's so many pieces involved. But you know what? One of the things that was really smart on Jennifer's part is, I, and I've told other realtors, is that if you want to build into this market go and develop relationships with with well known, well respected mediators. Because one of the first referrals we're going to make is for a CMA for the home. We cannot value the community if we don't know the value of the home. It's all up to Jennifer and the realtors after that to create this lasting impression that she can bring value, whether it's helping them consider, do I should I stay? Or should I go? Which theme song they're going to be at? Or, you know, are they going to nest for a while? Because I've written a lot of nesting agreements where the children, it's the children's home now, and the parents take turns leaving, and maybe Jennifer, the realtor, is going to help them land a rental nearby, make other connections, slow down the process and be patient to meet the client's needs. So for me, like, it's funny, I had a client in here the other day, and you know, they're just interviewing me whether they're going to use a mediator, attorneys. And they started talking about the house right away. I said, we got options here. And he's like, I've talked to three attorneys, and they all say, nobody gets the house. Guess what? If you're litigating, nobody gets the house because you've spent it all on legal fees, and so you don't want to go and track down the attorneys if you're a realtor, because they're not. I mean, I guess it's one sale, but everybody's mad at you. You're not going to build relationships, whereas, if you're working with a mediator. You're building relationships, and that has longevity to it, and respect, and people will tell their neighbors, their friends, guess what? I'm working with Jennifer, and she really kind of took me by the hand, walked me through the process, didn't push me into something that was uncomfortable. I mean, I think that's the hottest tip I could give you. Know other realtors wanting to get into this. Forget the attorneys, go talk to the mediators. And really, Jennifer did it right away. She's like, Laura, can I bring over a coffee and we? Can we have a conversation? Of course, I knew her as a client, but I didn't know her professionally. Had never bought from her. We didn't have a collegial relationship. It was brand new, and we were able to flip that into a long term relationship now, and it's turned into it just a valuable one for both of us. Yeah, yeah.

Justin Stoddart 13:27
You know what I love about what the tip that you just gave the audience, which is many people like you said, will say, ah, divorce attorneys, that's where I should start. I think what you've helped us to identify is that typical people are attorney up, like lawyering up, right? That means that it's, they're not in agreement. And there's, it's going to be very contentious, whereas maybe what you see more is people are like, Look, we're not good together anymore, but I don't wish you ill. Let's, let's separate and move on, right, without trying to destroy the other person. And I was saying that shouldn't destroy but, but there is, I think, definitely, this concept of a mediator means people want to come to some sort of common ground so really can move on and find their best version of what happy life looks like. And so I think if people are courting divorce attorneys, maybe you should not. Maybe that the better approach is to go meet with a great mediator, right?

Speaker 2 14:22
Let me just break that down just a little bit further too. We are Laura and I are in a hub, as I mentioned, with all different before divorce professionals. We have a coach in there. We have a CDFA, which is a certified divorce financial analyst. We have mediators, attorneys, and in the entire hub, all my business. I'd say 98% of my leads come from Laura, and I'm very close to everyone else, too. I mean, they all like me. We have a great relationship. But the in the attorney is amazing. I refer him probably way more than you know he ever gives me. But it just. Goes to show you that even an attorney has a really hard time bringing in a real estate agent, because these people are not talking as you mentioned, it's a toxic side, in my opinion, of divorce and the compromising and, you know, everyone is on the same page, is the mediation side, usually nine times out of 10. So in my experience, I don't even if Ken Well, the attorney ever referred me somebody which he has, I have not gotten the listing, and it's because what happens is, an attorney usually gives three agents, and the other attorney gives three agents, and then you've got one side or the other not wanting who the other one shows they don't want, you know, to use the other one. So in Laura's case, they only, she only sends me. And I have two people that we referred from the mediator that we are all starting in common ground, not like battling back and forth. And so I think a lot of realtors don't understand that is that they're going after those divorce attorneys, not realizing that the other side also is giving, you know, a realtor, and then the courts decide who that realtor is going to be. And so it's a crapshoot, really, you know? I mean, it's, it's, I don't have any leg to stand on. It's not, it's not about empathy. It's not about, you know, how much business I do. It has nothing to do with that. And the attorney side,

Speaker 1 16:23
there's one more piece, if I could throw it in one more piece, because guess what, if you're a litigating attorney, you can handle maybe 10 to 15 new clients a year, because it's very time. Consumptive practice, I usually open about 70 new cases a year. It's a great tip, so you're facing the wrong beast, yeah? So

Justin Stoddart 16:48
a sheer volume stand, yeah, that's a significant nugget right there, right? And another great reason to find somebody great now, Laura, talk to us a little bit about where you serve? Is it just Southern California? Is it the entire state of California? I think I know the answer, but I have the audience

Speaker 1 17:06
here. Yeah, I can serve anywhere in the state of California. I don't work outside of California as a divorce mediator, because I work within the legal confines of our state. I have done my divorce coaching, which is preparing people for their runway outside of California, but still, most of my clients have been here. Usually, I'm helping them set up their team in the coaching side of my practice. Often they're in the contemplation stage. For example, will I have to sell my home? You know, do I have to stop breastfeeding my five year old, whatever like they're coming to establish what would this strategy and the plan be? And often they start off, I think public's become far more aware of mediation, especially since COVID. But still, a lot of people like, you know, can you help me find an attorney and help me build my case? I'm like, Have you thought about mediating? And they're often, well, I don't think my spouse will mediate and like, and the reasons for that are like, because I like to think of it as a triage. You know, if you have a headache, don't start with the brain surgeon. Take an aspirin, and let's see what happens. So like, start with mediation. You can always go up to litigation, and everything you've done is still valuable to you, because you've done chunks of your case, ideally, but if you start litigating, it's very hard to come down. In fact, the biggest argument is usually over who's paying whose legal fees, and invariably, that means the house is being sold, but again, with two angry people, so it's a completely different dynamic. And so yeah, but I can pretty much work throughout the entire state. I'm in Carlsbad, California, the North County of San Diego, and so that's probably the most of my practice, but anywhere in California.

Justin Stoddart 18:44
Great tip for for those that don't know, I run a company called Pro insight that is a nationwide network of great professionals. And for those of you that are listening, I should be making connections to lower these other markets, because it sounds like obviously, if you're serving that entire state of California. Unfortunately, Jennifer, probably can't Now correct me if I'm wrong. Jennifer, how big of an area do you cover? Because I

Speaker 2 19:06
don't want to step Yeah, San Diego County and Riverside County when it comes to sometimes Laura will have some stuff in Riverside County, yeah.

Justin Stoddart 19:12
Okay, cool. So outside of that, it sounds like you would benefit Laura by having great partners who obviously can refer you as well as be a comfortable person for you to refer. Is that fair enough?

Speaker 1 19:24
Oh yeah, exactly. Because, again, it's just building those relationships and and the funny thing is, I think sometimes the realtor, you know, maybe just second after the hairdresser, will find out that somebody's considering divorce because they already want to know what their home's worth. And I know we've got Zillow and all those things, but they're not, they're not really worth the salt. Yeah, we know that when you've really worked with professional realtor, you know when, when Jennifer does a comparative market analysis, she includes a video she's having, she's communicating. I sit here in my office on my big screen, and I play. It with my clients present, and I'm like, wow. Like, look at this. Who does this for you? Like it's so personal. And I bring her into my nice little mediation office here, and I bring her right in here by screen. Like she doesn't physically come, but she's sitting here with us, basically in conversation by sending that video link along and really talking it through. So it's not you have to develop a style. And I have to tell you, Jennifer would be an amazing mentor for that, because she's really got it. She's got it knocked out of the park.

Justin Stoddart 20:31
Well, that's what I love about what Jennifer's done right, is that you're not only interested in serving divorcees, but also the agents to help them to become right, really good. And talk to us a little bit about that. Jennifer, about your passion now extending beyond just serving clients, actually serving real estate

Speaker 2 20:49
agents. So last year, I did a bunch of masterminds along with our hub too. We have, it's a national hub, so I help the realtors within the hub. It's called Vesta network, and Vesta is a divorce network across the nation that offers free, valuable webinars each month, and then they have a realtor in each hub across the United States. So I do a lot of education with those realtors, and then went outside that and started kind of a divorce niche mastery course, because I realized something. There's there's a couple certification processes for this specialty, and one's very expensive, one's not as expensive, but they just kind of go through the kind of the negotiations, a few things that are different in the process, but they don't really take the whole business model in mind. And to me, it's a very specific niche that usually is better served with a life experience attached to it. And I say that because in all the agents that I've trained, you know now it's probably a little over 100 as far as how many people were on the masterminds and different people I've trained, they the ones that succeed are the ones that unfortunately had this story and their life experience attached to that. And it's not saying that you can't, but what happens is you have to go into the psychology, like I was talking earlier about what's happening in these people's brains, and they're going to attach themselves to somebody that understands and so if you don't come from that background, you can understand real estate, but they nine times out of 10. I'm not talking to them about the house or real estate. I mean literally, I have zero conversations in a listing appointment on how I can help them sell their house. They don't actually care about that. They want to know that I'm helping them through the process. They don't know where they're going on the back end. So the lifestyle, as far as the lifestyle change that they may be, you know, confronted with downsizing, renting, it's that emotional attachment that is very, very hard for them. So I have a whole system, and even to the fact of the communication. So I have a divorce newsletter that I send out that is not just my real estate market update. Do you really think somebody that's actually going through a divorce wants to hear from a real estate agent what's happening in the market and, oh, by the way, do you want to sell like that? That communication cannot happen in this world, you know. So when a realtor touches base with somebody in their database. It's usually like, Hey, are you thinking about selling this year? Hey, I did this. CMA for you. Are you going to sell now? They they will AX you out, you know, the minute you do it. So the language has to be so completely different in speaking to these people that that's what I teach on

Justin Stoddart 23:39
and more about the human like, how are you right? What do you need? I would imagine that there's some of that in there. And I I'm sure that anybody that's serious about divorce is is asking themselves, how do I, how do I get my hands on that? Right? Because I think that was going to be one of my questions, which is, and Laura, you kind of spoke to it already, which was, when someone approaches you who's a real estate agent, right? What's their heart are they just there for the business case, or are they there because they actually want to help people? And I would imagine you can predict pretty quickly what can't people fit inside, right? And it's hard to fake the ladder. It's hard to actually fake carry right? Yeah. And I would imagine that great referral partner, feel people who actually, genuinely care and want to help people not just capitalize on what they see as an opportunity.

Speaker 1 24:27
Absolutely, you know, I actually had a realtor pop into my office a few days ago just to hand me a $10 Starbucks card and his card, and that was the whole comment, like, that was it? Hi? And I'm like, yeah, that really built a relationship like you can't throw business cards at people anywhere in networking. I hopefully that, hopefully everybody you're working with has advanced enough networking skills to know that your world as realtors, much even more than mine, is relationship building. Hopefully most people only need me once. Oh, not so as a realtor. But you know what, almost every one of my clients comes from other clients. So it's how you serve and what imprint you leave behind that people have a lasting memory of. This is a person who cared. She had all these people. She built a team for us, we felt like nurtured because we wanted a respectful conflict, managed divorce, and we wouldn't we didn't know how to do it by ourselves, you know, so building, team building, is part of what I do to help my clients know that I'm going to get them to this process and resource for them, the experts they're going to need, they don't have to need. They don't have to go do the research. It's not going to be hit and

Justin Stoddart 25:44
miss. There's a huge nugget again, folks that are listening to this that you just shared, right there is that one of the most valuable things that you can do is to build a team of professionals, a specialist around you that serve this same niche. Right when you can go to somebody like Jennifer can to say, hey, look, I've already got a great mediator, or vice versa. It's like, Great one less person that I've got to find you mean, and you already work well together, and we're already like, that's so that's got to be so comforting for people to hear. Is like, I found the dream team right now I can, I can focus on all the other things I have to focus on

Speaker 2 26:16
well. And I can't tell you how many times I'm now, you know, it was a struggle for me mentally at the beginning, to honestly get into this niche outside of what I talked earlier. I wanted a purpose, but I also have rebuilt, and now I'm on the other side, not when I met with Laura, you know, about getting into this niche, but it was hard for me to just, I didn't want to be known as like, the divorce queen, you know, like, Oh, if you want a divorce, go to like. That was really challenging for me of using that language, because I obviously am not promoting divorce. I don't want that for anyone. I've been, you know, I've been through that process, but now being on the other side, it was, you know, just a journey. But now I'm so known in this world that I have other agents that will reach out to me and say, Hey, I have a client going through this. Who's your mediator, who's your attorney. So am I going to get anything? No, but I have agents that know that I'm the specialist, and then people in Facebook groups, because they'll see me post about Laura. I'm, I am the go to person now, and it's just building, you know, every single year. And it is cool, but it's a kind of a weird, you know, space to be in that, again, I don't want to be promoting all the time to get divorced, but the the reality is, 50% of divorces right now across the country, or 50% of marriages are ending in divorce. So, you know, it is what it is.

Justin Stoddart 27:38
Yeah. Well, that's such great insights. Lady, is there anything else that we've missed? You would want to have this audience understand about about this so important niche that that you both have truly mastered?

Speaker 1 27:51
Think Jennifer really captured it. I think you're the agents. Need to think at the long game, building a reputation, building relationships, you know, being ready to serve and empathize and understand that when people are going through a divorce and they are restructuring their whole life, there's so much grief and loss, and then it's kind of like oh and the home, oh and the dog, you know? And so some of the things that Jennifer has done for my clients, she could probably write a whole book on that one where she's really over served. And I know often Realtors would, but she brings that sense of, I know that you're in a state of, you know, extreme loss right now and grief, and as you're walking out that door with, you know, your last box, or maybe contained your wedding dress or something, you're grieving. And she knows how to support a process that is really comforting. And I've clients have definitely come back and said thank you to me as much as they said it to her for that. Yeah,

Justin Stoddart 28:51
yeah, Jennifer, you've got a beautiful soul for this really just such a committed professional who really is showing up to help. And it's very, very transparent, obvious, any final words that you would say, Jennifer, as we wrap up here,

Speaker 2 29:03
you know, I think in general, and this is even divorce niche and beyond, I think we're in a time period in real estate where going deep in your niche is really where it's at. So it's not just about, you know, you have to connect on multiple different layers. And one of those, for example, is I started a walking group for post divorce women, and we have 52 people in the group now.

Justin Stoddart 29:28
They don't all come down the road,

Speaker 2 29:32
but there's 52 people that I'm now emailing after, and now I'm starting to get those particular referrals that aren't getting divorced. You know, they just know that I'm in real estate. And so I think as realtors, whatever niche you serve, go deep and widen it and really try to show value outside of real estate. And I think that's how we're all going to really navigate these waters, because we're in, you know, the market's hard right now. It just, it is. So I think if you can do that, I think you'll have more success than just the traditional touch points of, you know, quick touch points. I think they need to be more connected. Now, I love

Justin Stoddart 30:10
how you've created this ecosystem that is such a beautiful tribute to again, how you go about serving this clientele. It's not just about capitalizing on a business opportunity, which you've helped us to identify, is as a challenging one. It's not as easy as it sounds, right? Yeah, but to actually put together a support group, a new community, because I think one of my friends who went through a divorce, he said it this way. He said, when, like, a marriage is a living thing, and when a divorce happens, that living thing dies, and people have to mourn the fact that that that living thing is no more, and people have to, they've their communities now aren't the same, right? You don't show up the same with couples you used to hang out with, and it's like and so you have to find this new community. And part of what I hear use say that you've done is you've actually helped help people to have a community where they where it's safe, where they can have people who understand what they're going through, which is again, another beautiful way to serve and to not just be the person of choice, but to earn being the person of choice, because you're pouring into them long after, long before any transactions are discussed. So it's awesome. It's no wonder you're crushing it, my friend, both of you, the world needs more of of each of you, and I'm so grateful to have highlighted you here today. Yeah, thank you. Real Estate podcast. Thank you. And how might people get in contact with you? We'll put it in the show notes, but if you've got a quick place for them to go, whether a website or a quick email address, I'd love for any that are listening, maybe in the cars or driving along, to be able to kind of capture how to how to reach out.

Speaker 1 31:39
So my website is my mission statement, leave strong. And so leave strong.com as opposed instead of Live Strong. It's not, it's not, it's not that one leave strong.com and on my website, it has a complimentary option to book discovery session. If somebody wants to talk to me, even if it's a realtor, can come and meet with me, talk to me, network and say, Well, how could I help you, know, connect with them. That's a good place to get, reach out to me right through my website.

Justin Stoddart 32:08
What a cool website there. Leave strong.com like it's got it, it's got it, it's got a ring to it. Jennifer, what about you? Where would you have people go to learn more about how you

Speaker 2 32:16
Yeah, you can find me on Instagram at Jennifer Chaney homes, and then if you are interested in a future mastermind on the divorce niche, and I call it niche versus niche, I know that's, you know, but it's divorce niche mastery.com.

Justin Stoddart 32:32
I love it so good. I hope that everybody's listening to this that has a heart right to serve people in this way. I hope that you will find these ladies and add them to your network. So I want to appreciate, I want to just express my appreciation to both of you for being here in the audience, for tuning in. For those who recognize the power of a valuable network, check out proinsight.com there. We're building a network of professionals just like these ladies who help you go deep in whatever niche that may be for you. So appreciate it everybody. And my final three words that I invite everybody to listen and and adhere are, go think bigger ladies, thanks for helping us do that today. Thank you.