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We need a new definition of success—one that harmonizes meaning and money.
Imagine diving into your workday with renewed energy, leaving behind the exhaustion or dread of a monotonous grind.
Traditional beliefs about success and the root cause of burnout are the same:
Prove yourself.
Work harder.
Take care of the business, and it will take care of you.
We’re recycling the mindset and practices that keep us stuck. Our souls need a jumpstart into The Age of Humanity.
Tune in for a new way of working that honors our nervous system and the bottom line, using knowledge of the brain, the Bible, and business. We’ll discuss timeless truths that amplify growth, ignite change, and reshape the world of work. No corporate speak or business BS. Let’s get to the heart of a rewarding career and profitable growth.
We speak human about business.
What’s in it for You?
Value, Relevance, and Impact (VRI): No, it's not a new tech gadget—it's your ticket to making your work genuinely matter to you and your company.
Human-Centric Insights: We prioritize people over profits without sacrificing the bottom line. Think less "cog in the machine" and more "humans helping humans."
I'm your host, Rebecca Fleetwood Hesson, your thrive guide leading you into the new Age of Humanity. I’ve navigated the highs and lows of business and life, from achieving over $40 million in sales, teaching thousands of people around the world about leadership, trust, execution, and productivity to facing burnout, divorce, raising a couple of great humans (one with ADHD), and navigating the uncertainty of starting a business.
I’m committed to igniting change in the world by jumpstarting business into profitable growth with the timeless truths of our humanity.
Sound crazy? It’s only crazy until it works.
Hit subscribe to never miss an episode, and leave a review to help other listeners discover our show.
Want insight and advice on your real career and business challenges? Connect with me on social media or email me at rebecca@wethrive.live. Your story could spark our next conversation.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:00:00]:
I'm not coming down I never locked it on the ground I'm not coming down I wanna go higher, higher than that welcome back to the Business is Human podcast, where we discuss strategies to increase our VRI value, relevance, and impact. We're here to blend meaningful work with profitable success. I'm your host, Rebecca Fleetwood Hession, here to steward what we call the age of humanity, to transform the way we work so we can transform the way that we live. As always, my friendly request, if you like what you hear, hit subscribe so you don't miss any episodes, and then leave a review to tell the other humans that they might like it, too. Always looking to help you and connect with others. Let's get into it, shall we? I'm thrilled to bring you this episode in honor of Veterans Day. My dad is a veteran of the air force, of family members in other branches of the military, and I have a huge respect for the women and men who serve our country. And so I am thrilled to bring you this episode in honor of those veterans.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:01:19]:
For this next episode of the Business is Human Podcast, I want you to take a moment, close your eyes if you're not driving or on the treadmill. And I want you to picture a Green Beret, one of the most elite forces in military, a division of the US army. And just who is that person? How do they get to that level of excellence? Just think about who that is. Got it? Got that picture in your mind? Well, today's guest, Trevor Beaman, is a green Beret, and that is only a fraction of his story. And I asked you to picture what a Green Beret is in your mind, because as you listen to his interview, and I hope that you go by his book called no one else can see your fire, that you'll start to get an understanding of the complexity that is our humanity. And the reason I believe this is so important, even on a business podcast, is because a number of elite executives, the number of elite career professionals that I've had the honor and the privilege to work with as their coach, sometimes as their friend, I can't tell you the number of them that have a story that is book worthy in some shape or fashion. And so I am committed on this show to bring you the stories of people's real stories, the human aspect of their story. And Trevor was called to write this book about his story because he also cares deeply about being vulnerable and sharing all of his story so that he can serve and support others that are going through many of the complexities of life that he went through.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:03:39]:
And that includes basically every aspect of trauma that you can imagine, from childhood abuse to addiction to suicide attempts, friends actually ending their lives, broken relationships and healing and transformation and education and military diligence and marriage and kids. And he's just a beautiful human. I am so glad that our friend Rachel Coverdale, one of my clients and friends, introduced us so that I could bring his story to you. So enough about that. Let's just get into it, shall we? Your story certainly illustrates humanity and all of its ups, downs, good, bad, and otherwise. What if we just opened up with, you know, why'd you write it?
Trevor Beaman [00:04:38]:
Thanks for having me on the show, Rebecca. You know, you asked me why I wrote this book, and in the simplest way, it's so that people know they're not alone in their life and their struggles and their trauma and the things that they go through with their family or even things at their workplace that they go through. And maybe there was a traumatic event that they go through at work, or they lost someone at work, and they maybe don't know how to deal with that. And maybe they just need to know that maybe there's someone else out in this world that has lived through something hard, too, and has triumphed over that problem, that traumatic event, that day that relives in their brain that they, too, can still be living a happy and joyous life.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:05:25]:
One of the things that really stood out to me, and it's on the first page of the introduction, was that you couldn't find a trauma survivor who spoke to you as a man, a husband, and a father. And I think that is so profound and true. I tend to hang out with women as a woman and a businesswoman, and women have that tendon befriend state of being. And so we get together and we talk about our stuff, and I then will talk to a man, because I ran this group called still do, the Badass Women's Council. You know, we get together and we talk about stuff, and I've had businessmen come to me and say, man, I wish I had that. I wish I had that kind of community where, yes, we're talking about business, but we're also talking about our humanity. And so I think what I was most excited about having you on the show is to do just that for the businessmen that are listening to the show to say, look, there are people out there, men out there that have profound stories. And the more that you all let down your guards a little bit to share those stories, we all benefit from that.
Trevor Beaman [00:06:38]:
Jeff, I really think over the last four to five years, men in the world, especially with podcasts, have started to open up about what and how they feel inside more than ever before. I mean, I don't think there was much in the fifties and sixties where guys were going on radios and talking about them. They're talking about what's happening around them, but not how it made them feel. And I think right now, we go fast forward 70 years later, and we're finally realizing that, hey, what I've been through can actually help other people and the experience of life. I don't have to read a book. I can just sit down and listen to it. Whatever I'm doing in my life. The convenience of the storytelling through podcasts has been phenomenal.
Trevor Beaman [00:07:31]:
And I think it's super. It's super empowering for people to. Well, now you can see other guys are doing this, Jocko, all the different people who, from different levels of life, from the military all the way down to business, that there's people talking about that and an open forum and that. So now it's giving a lot of power back onto people to have a choice, what they want to say to people.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:08:00]:
And you say very candidly that you tried to write this book for over 20 years and just couldn't quite get it there. But now here it is. I'm holding it in my hands, and you want to inspire people to spark that kind of change. And you say, build an understanding of what trauma does to you and the people around you. And so everything about this book, while you're very candid about what you've gone through, childhood trauma, trauma followed you for a long, long time, right? And then to be in the military as a green beret and now a beautiful life. Everything about this book is about humanity. It's about how we live, how we experience life with one another. Did you write the title first or did you write the book and then the title?
Trevor Beaman [00:08:46]:
I wrote the book, and then through an editor, we came up with this title. And there's so many ways that you can go into, like, what this means and how to, like, put it on what a fire is, metaphor it, all of it. And I try to tend to say to people is like, the meaning of the title of the book is for you to come up with. It's not me to tell you, because if you can do that, then I think that there's a lot more you can take away from it by doing that than having me tell you what I think it means and what it.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:09:19]:
Means to me, which showcases the whole aspect of humanity, you know, it's, it really is a brilliant, because I did the same. I looked at it and I thought, I wonder what he means by fire. Like, is this, you know, are we burning it down? Are we lighting it up? What are we doing with it? And then as I read it, that's exactly where my mind went. And my son is a songwriter, and I'm a writer. And so metaphors and symbols and all of that just geeked me out big time. So I love that it was meant to be. What do you need it to be for your story?
Trevor Beaman [00:09:52]:
Exactly.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:09:54]:
What do you hope? I know you say, I want it to spark change and build an understanding of what trauma can be and do for people. What is your greatest hope for someone that's reading this book that they walk away with?
Trevor Beaman [00:10:08]:
So I got a lot of inspiration from Viktor Frankl's book man's search for meaning, because its such a difficult thing to try to understand, to be in a concentration camp in World War Two. And the guy writes it in 100 pages, and he writes it in a manner where you feel as if this guy is walking along in a place that seems so tired and so painful, but he makes you feel that if you could believe in yourself in the future, like, it wouldn't be so bad to be there and to be like, how that you can make this the worst place that you could ever be in your life, but make it as if that, like, it taught me that I can live through anything. And so I took some of that through that, and I really wanted it to feel that if I have gone through this and I can show you it, that you can take some away from that and be able to take it on with you, with life, and be able to say, hey, I need to look to the future to live. If I keep looking into the past, im going to die. And thats what Frankel essentially comes up with, is that if you live in the past, youre going to die. Your body will just give up. If you look for the future and who you will become, then thats what happens, and youll live through anything. And I think he wrote his book in the fifties.
Trevor Beaman [00:11:33]:
I think it's on the same thing, but it's with the global war on terror kind of guy aspect on it. It's a different trauma. It's a different life that we're taking two different angles on. But the story, in essence, is probably very similar.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:11:51]:
The humanity of it is very similar. I spent 20 years with the Franklin Covey organization, working with doctor Stephen R. Covey, who wrote the seven habits of highly effective people. And he attributes Viktor Frankl's work as a key contributor to why he wrote the seven habits for those same reasons. And so that really speaks to my heart and my understanding of what it takes to draw someone into a story. You've been able to now bring us forward into more present day examples, but the aspect of what you're talking about, of believing in the future, remains the principle at play. No, it's not just about World War Two. It's not back in the day kind of thing like this is.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:12:40]:
You talk about it all and you give us, here's where I was, here was high school, here's what was happening with my mom and my brother. And now Millet, like, you put us in that room with you. And I think that's an important aspect of humanity, is to take us along the journey.
Trevor Beaman [00:12:56]:
Right? So this story, right, the whole shell of the story is going to get repeated on for eternity. So with knowing that, you must tell your story, because without it, we don't have these examples that will be repeated over and over. That is necessary for humanity to continue to grow, because without the art of it, we won't learn empathy. And that's crucial for us to continue on as loving and growing human beings. Back in the world War two, they needed that message then the way he wrote it and life moves on and the way it's written now is where we understand it this way versus where it was back then. So the flavor of the story of humanity needs to change with the growth is society. So that is why it has to be redone is because it will only resonate with today. You can reach back and be like, hey, I understand, I feel it, but it's not the same unless it's someone living in this time.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:14:07]:
And you mentioned back in the fifties, men weren't sharing their stories. And as someone that was raised in the sixties and seventies, my family, farm family, blue collar, also Indiana, Midwest, which is where your story is mostly from. Our family didn't share anything. I mean, I uncovered family secrets that I was like, why did this need to be a secret? There wasn't an open sharing of things. And therefore, when I would experience something, because you say in here, pain is part of the human experience, and because our family wasn't one to really share much. I mean, I saw the pain and the alcohol and drug abuse and there was all kinds of fun stuff happening in my family, but we didn't talk about it as a human experience. And so when I would go through hard things, it still felt like it was like I was alone or I was the first one experiencing that, because no one had shared their own personal aspect of pain around us. I appreciate that you have been willing to put these words out for others to realize that pain is part of the human experience.
Trevor Beaman [00:15:20]:
So there's this shift within society that's happened probably in the last 20 years. During the war, when guys came home, they didn't talk about it, but they went through. And so then those guys came home and they went into the factories and they went to the workplace and they didn't talk about their family or what they've ever been through. Who that guy was, was now idolized to what a man is. And so now, as young men, I see my father acting this way. And all I learn is from him and from my parents is how to be a man in America. And I was like, to be successful, I must take in all the pain and everything that I've ever had and never speak about it. And we will stonewall everything in our family and we just will live, and we just won't ever deal with the shit that we have in our everyday life or the things that I went through as a kid or when I was at war, or if the factory, something happens at work, that's work, I never bring it home, and I never take my home life into work.
Trevor Beaman [00:16:29]:
Completely compartmentalized life. It doesn't, it's not together. And so I'm that guy at work and then I'm this guy at home. But I really think that it's. It's been fusing together. Like wellness and mental health has taken another role in the workplace, business place, in the military. All of that has become like a well oiled system that is, is getting a better. People are understanding that what is happening in the home affects work, and what is happening at work affects your home.
Trevor Beaman [00:17:07]:
And to put money or energize that and to see positive outcomes within the workplace and then positive outcomes at home is a direct correlation to why this mental health, this men's health, women's health, speaking about how you are living and how it makes you feel in and out of the workplace is so critical. Because what we cant do is we cant go back to business as usual crap. We cant go back to. Its always been that way. Were going to do this, were not spending money on this because its not going to help. We need to invest into the people who are here, because the longer they're here, the more that they will become a family. And that's what we want at work and that's what we want at home. And by not discussing either of those things with each other, that family will never be built and there will never be a connection with people.
Trevor Beaman [00:18:06]:
And then I'm like, why would you want to own a business that doesn't feel like your family doesn't have a.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:18:12]:
Greater meaning than making money. And I'm all for helping businesses make money. I'm a good consultant. But there has to be meaning behind it for people to rally around.
Trevor Beaman [00:18:21]:
It's not. So then you hear talk to people, like, why would you write a book that you're not going to make money on? Because it's not about money. It's about the purpose. And the message that makes me do this. That's like my fire inside me is the same feeling I had that I would go to war as a green berethe. I would do it for free is the same way this message in front of to talk to people is to give them this beautiful gift of what life was like, how it made me feel. And then let me tell you about it and have some perspective on it that maybe you haven't had on your own life. And then to take that perspective and then implement it in through your whole entire life.
Trevor Beaman [00:19:08]:
And then you can see why the storytelling, the things that made me feel bad, would actually bridge some connection to some people at work and be like, now I understand maybe what makes you upset, or maybe theres things that make you upset that I never realized. Or like maybe someone smokes and they smell like smoke and it reminds you of something and youve never said it, but its bothered you for ten years. Like, you smell like smoke. Because I went through something as a kid that my dad or my mom smoked. And it takes me every single day back to that. And when I come to work, it just steals my happiness away. But I've never been able to tell you that. And so to be able to have that conversation, to be like, you know, how can we work through that? How can we make this a better work environment for the two of us so that I don't feel like I'm reliving a trauma the second I come.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:20:00]:
Into work every day, oftentimes people will ask them a question, they'll say, am I answering that personally or professionally? Awesome. Well, you're one person living one life. Sometimes you're at work and sometimes you're at home. But we don't get to compartmentalize, as you said, and then to take the conversation to say how many people report to you and whether it's 5000 or five, I say every day those people come to work with their past, their present and their dreams for the future. They don't come to work just for the eight or ten or 12 hours that you need them to do spreadsheets and meet with clients. They come with their whole self. And the more we recognize that, the better we'll all be for it, for sure.
Trevor Beaman [00:20:46]:
It's how do you get your employees to come to work because of what they do? Means so much to them that the paycheck isn't the thing that matters. That's where I think you gotta strive to become.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:21:02]:
And even if it's I am responsible for reconciling the spreadsheets and making the numbers work, that you know that you're doing it because you care so much about your peers or your customers, you know that that work matters to the ultimate outcome of what you're trying to accomplish.
Trevor Beaman [00:21:20]:
It's this understanding what the team concept is that everyone plays a critical role into making this whole team work. Because without you doing amazing things, something else doesn't work. And recognizing that and telling that to people is so important, not just like, I show up, no one sees me, I feel invisible at work, like I wouldn't want to stay in that environment. No one ever recognizes who I am and what I do. No, that would not be fulfilling your cup every day at all.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:21:58]:
And the other aspect of it, not just recognition that you talk about, that really hits me because I love the geeky aspect of neuroscience and why our brains do what they do. And you've had people enter your life in beautiful ways that brought you that information, which I always love. To me, I'm a huge believer in goddesse, always, like, he brings us the people we need before we even know we need him sometimes. And so when, when the neuroscience entered the chat, if you will, in your book, I was like, oh, now he's going to get all the background of all this good stuff in his life. But one of the things you said before that early in your story is you were talking about how good it felt to tell the truth. So this is when your mom finally asked you if you were being sexually abused by your stepfather. And I was so like teared up that she believed you. Because I know too many times that people finally do share and then they're not believed.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:22:52]:
But you said she believed every word I told her. And it felt good to finally tell her the truth. And it just felt like this moment in your story where you could finally be really transparent and truthful. And from a neuroscience perspective, we don't feel safe unless we feel like we can share the truth. That's a fundamental aspect of our humanity is in order for us to feel safe, to be ourselves at work, at home, at school, anywhere, we have to know that we're in a place where we can tell the truth and we're going to be believed. Do you remember the pivotal nature of that going back in your story?
Trevor Beaman [00:23:38]:
So, I mean, it was a late night. I don't know if I had been like just angry, Orlando upset or im just like tired of living with my parents and I think I was just so fed up with it. And then with the belief that he was abusing other children, the voice aspect of someone not being able to speak up for themselves and this like warrior protector thing that was growing inside me that I think, no, even if I wasnt abused as a kid, like going into the military was probably going to happen. Like, being a green beret within me from the day I was born hasn't really do with the trauma and all that stuff. I don't think so. I really just think that that's who wholeheartedly I am as a person is. That's what I was going to, that's what I was like, made to be. And so with that feeling of someone else being oppressed or being taken care of or taken advantage of, I had to take care of them.
Trevor Beaman [00:24:40]:
So that moment where that happened, I said, this is it. The thing that has to be remembered at that is like, I had eight years to deal with this trauma and now I just gave every eight years on to my mom, which is kind of super difficult to do. So, like, if you're going to unload on some folks, like give them some time to absorb all of that knowledge because it's going to be overwhelming for them. And you can't just like, you're supposed to understand everything that I went through right now at that moment in time. You have to allow it to develop in like, it's almost like a grieving process that's going to happen with this new knowledge that they got. So take a deep breath and just listen if someone's going to open up to you about something like that. So. And that's what my mom did.
Trevor Beaman [00:25:30]:
She really did just kind of just sit back and ask questions and let me talk to her and tell her the story and, you know, and would be able to go to the, like the police and. And do a report and all that, and, like, she was there. Yeah, it's great. It's all off me now. And so the relief of that person is incredible, but the other person now just took all that into them. So you gotta be mindful of both people.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:26:00]:
Yeah, that's a great.
Trevor Beaman [00:26:02]:
And then one's probably gonna be super angry, depressed, all the other negative feelings.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:26:08]:
And, like you said, mourning the loss of the family that she thought she had or wanted to have or any of those things. That's big. You did talk about the. When you went to the police, there were there people there that took your story and believed you and listened and asked questions. And I. One of my clients runs an organization called Susie's Place. Who is that organization that sits with the kids when they come in from the police to gather their stories so that they can help them in court? And so it touched me there, too, because I know the hearts of those people that do that kind of work. And as the story goes on, I mean, there's several places that I've made notes about, things that really stood out to me and what I know about humanity and the neuroscience of what we need to come together.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:26:54]:
And there's some interesting things that happen several places in the book where you're trying to either get out of a situation or move forward in some way, and you run up to situations where it doesn't look like it's possible to do something, whether it's get into Purdue or something else. And then all of a sudden, like, this is when, in particular, you were trying to get into Purdue. You know, I don't want to spoil it, because I want people to read the book, but things weren't exactly stacked in your favor at that point. Right? And you said, I asked what I needed to do to be admitted. And surprisingly, the woman came back to me with a plan. And two things come to mind. There is. You can't be afraid to ask, even if it looks like all hope is lost and there is no plan, because several times for you, in your story, there was a plan.
Trevor Beaman [00:27:51]:
It's important to see and recognize how much people want to help you. There's one aspect of it. And then I would like to offer that instead of looking at what people want to do as help, kind of reframe that word into support. I want you to look at, people want to support you in your dreams. They want to support you in your future. And that help feels weird, right? Help feels like victim, something like that. So try to reframe it, and maybe use that vernacular and say, hey, like, I don't appreciate when someone says, like, can I help you? Hey, how can I support you through this part of your life? And that might resonate better and feel better for you to go out and ask for support in the things that you're kind of going through.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:28:46]:
I like that. I like that frame, because then it's, I'm not a victim of the circumstance. I'm not helpless.
Trevor Beaman [00:28:52]:
Right.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:28:53]:
I need support. That's good.
Trevor Beaman [00:28:55]:
That's kind of a neat little thing that I had heard recently. And I was like, that's because it's a stigma attached with this word. So the purdue thing is really cool. When I was in a place where I was kind of, like, defeated, there was people around me that believed in me. It took me probably 20 years, I think, to finally realize how many people came to help me or support me or showed up when I needed them most and to recognize that I didn't do this alone at all.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:29:29]:
There's power and reflection back over your story in that way.
Trevor Beaman [00:29:33]:
And so I'm not successful on my own.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:29:39]:
I don't think, and I don't think.
Trevor Beaman [00:29:40]:
Any business, any family, is successful by one single person. It's a team, it's a family. It's a wholeness, a connectedness. And what should be happening is as soon as there's one little piece that's tilted or not working in the manner, everyone notices it, and then that's when you say, I need to support, how.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:30:03]:
Can I support person?
Trevor Beaman [00:30:04]:
Yeah.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:30:05]:
Yeah, that's good. And it leads to the other theme that I was alluding to throughout is you note very specifically when you feel that you're a part of something from a community perspective. You actually used the word belonging a couple of times, and. And it was in this. In the Purdue fraternity environment where you say, this was the first time I felt like I belonged in a group. But then from that experience, it feels like that you felt that sense of belonging, and then you were hoping for it or looking for it in other parts of the story, because you call it out other times when it happens.
Trevor Beaman [00:30:47]:
I didn't recognize it, like, in my forefront, that that's something I needed. It was like, there's an aura around it that having people around felt good. But I didn't realize, like, having a community was what I was really looking for, that there's people out there that, like, are friends of mine that will show up if my family needs help. There's the community at work. We all know each other. We're super bonded together. We've gone through some really hard stuff together. Those people now are just not my friends.
Trevor Beaman [00:31:23]:
Like, they're like my genuine friends. That I can say anything and everything to that is so important to continue to develop. If you were to move somewhere else, life changes a lot, but to always have that social worker esque kind of person in your life that you can call it a moment's notice, and that will show up for you. And that's how you develop this community of people around you, which, and I mean, with all the things that's happened within the world in the last few years, if you haven't noticed how much, like, being separated impacted us, I would really suggest you to really take a big look at your life and what's around you and how you're living. Because our lives are not meant to be lived alone. They're meant to be around other people.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:32:17]:
If anything, that's the thing I like about what happened in 2020, is the realization that the way that we were trying to live and mask so many things wasn't going to work. It revealed so much if you were willing to see it.
Trevor Beaman [00:32:31]:
And so now I like going back into that human connection of community should be like, amazing. It should be so euphoric to be like, I will never give this up again.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:32:43]:
Amen. You know, another thing that stood out to me, and I think it's because of my own situation, which is, like you said from the title, like, I'm going to read this book through my frame of reference. You know, Doctor Covey, quoting him again, would say, we don't see the world as it is. We see the world as we are. And so there were things about this that stood out to me during your time at Purdue. I have children that are in their twenties, and so during your time at Purdue, you said the college environment was a. Was great for a person who needed a place to hide in plain sight. I was the mom who said, you don't go to college unless you provide me with a strategic plan on why you should, because I think it's a terribly expensive and awful place to find yourself.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:33:29]:
I just. That's just my personal bias for a lot of reasons. And it did play out that way. My daughter went for a couple of years during COVID Like, it was. It was terrible. And I watched so many of her peers hiding in plain sight, hurting desperately, and, you know, you can be hammered at a frat party and it looks like everything's going great, and really you're just numbing the fact that you don't want to be there and you're afraid to tell your parents that you don't want to be there and you're flunking out and all the things. But then also I take it into my awareness of the 20. Our twenties are actually some of the loneliest times in our lives because all of your regular community love, whether it's family or high school friends or high school sports, gets fragmented and nobody knows where they belong.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:34:23]:
And so it does turn into a lot of numbing and alcohol and because people also say, these are the best years of your life, and you're like, holy shit, if these are the best years of my life, I'm in trouble because this sucks. Because both of my kids, you know, I see them kind of struggling to find, like, their place and feeling like they're supposed to have it all figured out. So this. That aspect of your searching during the twenties really stood out to me too.
Trevor Beaman [00:34:51]:
It's unfortunate. The pain of the twenties should be painful because that pain through that traumatic growth will allow you to be a better human as you become a parent if you get married. And, like, I think that struggle right there is on purpose so that figure.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:35:13]:
Out who you are, not who your parents or somebody else wanted you to be. Because there's also some times in here, like, there's a guidance counselor that I'd like to go drive up to Lafayette and find her and slash her tires, but I'll let somebody else.
Trevor Beaman [00:35:25]:
That's all right. I mean, a lot of that happens because of all of my friends where I lived, where my grades look like there is a reason for that. For her to say, like, I doubt it. You're never going to college. And I'd be surprised if you live past 20.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:35:44]:
It actually wasn't Lafayette. It was when you were still in South Bend. But, yeah. So she looked around at your environment and said, yeah, this kid's probably not.
Trevor Beaman [00:35:51]:
Getting out because most of my friends went to jail for attempted murder, selling drugs, gang banging. So my group of friends were all kicked out of high school, go into the alternate school. And for her to be like, to put me in that category made sense. But for me, I took that negative stuff and I took it and I ran with it and made it into something positive and took that negative comment, negative feeling and said, I'm going to prove this person wrong. And that's a fueled me to be like, I continue to go back to school even if this person never finds out. I know that I won. I beat them when they didn't believe in me. And that's like a reoccurring thing.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:36:34]:
Like, yeah, yeah. That shows up, and it's that warrior spirit that you've always known that you have. Do you think that can be cultivated? So if somebody's listening right now, especially someone that maybe has kids that are in their twenties or they're a 20 year old, is listening right now and. And is feeling the pain and is feeling the disconnect, and you could even feel that in your forties and fifties. It's not age requirement, but if somebody is feeling that victim ness trying to creep in to their lives, can you teach them something about the warrior spirit? That would be helpful.
Trevor Beaman [00:37:16]:
Guys getting out of the military at some point sometimes fall in this, like, victimhood mentality in a way. So I would say that if you're at home and you are married and you have kids and you struggle with migraines, and when you have a migraine, you always tell your wife and your kids, like, hey, I'm going to go lay down. And that's what you continually have. That behavior has continually gone on for a long period of time. And then there's one day you say, you know what? I'm going to go lay down because I have a migraine. But actually you just want to be away from the family. And so you lay down and you sit down and you lay down. You think to yourself, I'm in here not because I'm in pain.
Trevor Beaman [00:37:59]:
I'm in here because I'm making a choice not to be there. So if you are at a point where you are disguising something that you're telling other people you're doing should be a point where you're like, it's time to change. And I have recognized that in my own brain, I'm making the choice to suffer rather than to get better. Today's pain is only for today, because when you fall asleep and wake up tomorrow, that same pain won't be there. Like, we go to dive school and stuff, like, or really hard training in the, in the army, a lot of the instructors in cadre would be like, wait till your next meal before you quit. And I sometimes would say, like, wait till the sunset to quit. Wait till the sunrise to quit on living or on your decision on what you want to do. Like, let me sleep on it, right? That's something that people would.
Trevor Beaman [00:38:56]:
Could easily hold on. Let me sleep on it over tonight and let me just think about it. But if you're up all night racking your brain, maybe write some stuff down so you can get some sleep. But recognizing the pain that you have and knowing that it's not going to be there forever and that you, and this is a great thing about being in America and how free this place is, is so incredible that you can recreate yourself a million times in America. Just like, if you have kids with Fortnite or Roblox, like, it's just go put it on a new skin and go be someone else.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:39:31]:
Build something new.
Trevor Beaman [00:39:32]:
Because the people that are playing that game don't know who's behind the controller. And it's the same way that's whatever is inside your brain. Nobody can see. But what you put on, everyone else notices. So, like, make sure you're. What you're showing the world on. On your, like, skin is truly who you are.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:39:56]:
Amen.
Trevor Beaman [00:39:57]:
Your advertising, your marketing, who you are 100% of the time. But the thing that's not seen is what's going on inside. And that's how. Why you need to learn better, to communicate better. Storytelling, journaling, doing some type of art, expressing yourself, that what's inside you has to come out. You have to do something with the person who's controlling the controller.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:40:27]:
Yeah, it has some really negative consequences to our brains and our bodies if we don't deal with it. It's cellularly having some impact, whether you acknowledge it or not. That's just to acknowledge it. But I love that idea of this moment's pain isn't for tomorrow or even maybe later today. And I often remind myself that I making decisions between 04:00 p.m. and 07:00 p.m. for me, is not a good idea because I am not my best self. I am cranky, I am bitter, I am not my now 10:00 a.m.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:41:04]:
me. Oh, man, she good. She really good. And so I will say to myself at 05:00 if somebody calls me and says, hey, what do you think about, I did it yesterday. I did it yesterday. Something happened with something on our marketing plan. And I was like, yeah, 05:00 p.m. me and not going to make this decision, but we can talk about it tomorrow because 05:00 p.m.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:41:23]:
me is probably going to burn it all down.
Trevor Beaman [00:41:25]:
So the 22, 23 years of being in the army was very much being a yes man. And I had to learn how to say no to people. To me, that that's knowing at that time in your life, like right now, there is not a decision being made. I'm going to say, hey, tomorrow at this time, we will talk about this again. It's a no right now. Like, if you see do not disturb on my, you know, my phone, it's not the time to talk about that. It's because it's. I have other things that I'm focused on that I'm trying to give my energy to, that that wants.
Trevor Beaman [00:42:07]:
I try to pull out of that into something else. It feels almost painful to do that. I mean, being a dad and seeing like this happen with video games with my kids. And so I really would encourage, if you have a son or daughter that plays Fortnite that you understand the game that they're playing and how it's played and recognize what it feels like to pull them out of the middle mid game. It's really important that you spend some time learning what they love. It's because understanding how the game works, right? So it's 100 people that goes down to one winner, right? And imagine if you were working so hard and you're like number three of winning, and dad walks in and says, turns it off on you. Turns it off and you're gonna be like, it's just a video game. Get over it.
Trevor Beaman [00:43:08]:
No, no, no. It's. Fortnite is dessert for kids brains. So recognize that there's. They can have dessert every once in a while, not all day long, but they should be awarded it. Like, just like we would have dessert at the table. Let the kids play the games. But you have to be the parent here and.
Trevor Beaman [00:43:30]:
But take the time and recognize the game that they're playing. Learn about it. Learn the language of the game. Because think about your kids learning to love something that you love to do.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:43:43]:
Yes.
Trevor Beaman [00:43:44]:
Maybe it's hunting, maybe it's fishing. And you see them catch a fish for the first time. And that's something that I love, is to fish and to see my son catch a fish for the first time, I was ecstatic, and I was so happy. And he was so happy.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:43:59]:
Connected.
Trevor Beaman [00:44:00]:
Now take that to what he loves. And I get excited and he sees me get excited. And to fall in love with something he loves is so powerful. And like, let's have a connection with our kids and the things that they love, and you can take that into work, right? And then it's like, maybe I don't like playing golf, but you know what? I'm going to give it a try because this person likes it.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:44:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. Depending on.
Trevor Beaman [00:44:27]:
Just show interest to other people.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:44:30]:
I just want to stand and slow clap about that, about kids. I was not, I did not villainize video games in my house. My son struggled with attention deficit disorder in school, and I, we used video games as a calming mechanism, but I also taught him to self govern. I didn't do gold stars for time and all of that because of exactly what you're talking about. I wanted him to learn how they helped him and learn how they didn't help him. And so he did learn to self govern, but we very much had that respect of, if he was writing music, he later, he's now a songwriter and a musician, but he. If he was writing a song, and I would walk into his room raging about something that he hadn't done earlier that day, we had an agreement, and he would say to me, I know you're really mad that I left all that crap in the kitchen after you told me not to, but I'm in the middle of writing a really good song. If I promise to come downstairs when I finish this song, you can yell at me then, because if you yell at me now, you completely change the vibe of the song, and I'll never get it back.
Trevor Beaman [00:45:39]:
That's awesome.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:45:40]:
And I just want to cry thinking about those moments, because I don't. It must have been God, because I didn't read a book to tell me how to do that. I just. We just had mutual respect for one another's lives in a way that has served both of us. I learned a ton from him. Hopefully I shared enough with him that he's going to be okay. But that is. It is so true.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:46:02]:
And if you do, you walk in and you just shut off that video game, and they've been battling that thing out. It destroys their sense of confidence, their sense of character building. It just says, I don't respect who you are because their world's pretty small as children, and if we think, oh, well, that's not a big deal. Well, it may not be a big deal to you with a mortgage in a. All of the things that you've got, but for that kid, that is one of five things he cares about. And you just destroyed it.
Trevor Beaman [00:46:35]:
Yeah. And then, like, then if you perpetuate that over years, like, why would they want to come talk to you, ever continuously hurt me. It's not like physical pain, and it's not even almost an emotional pain, but.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:46:52]:
It'S this, like, it's an identity thing, though. Like you said, it's about their character. It's about. It's about respect for what they care about.
Trevor Beaman [00:47:01]:
Yeah.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:47:02]:
Matters in their development over time. The whole, like, I put a roof over your head, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, oh, for the love of everything.
Trevor Beaman [00:47:09]:
I don't. That. I don't think that's helpful. And that's not their purpose either.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:47:13]:
Amen.
Trevor Beaman [00:47:14]:
They're not supposed to be providing that I am. So that's why I had kids, is to provide so that my wife and I can grow the best human beings possible. That's why those things are provided to you, because without those things, life is harder. And you don't get to, like, grow as you should be because of all of these other little things that keep dragging you back down. And almost this, like each one is another loss of humanity, another thing that I can't trust people, another thing that I don't. The ability to talk about because no one's ever talked to me about drugs or alcohol or how kids grow up or what life feels like and what it feels to be depressed and maybe what it maybe have suicide ideations. Like, all these things are all conversations that have tend to come up in opportune times. And as the parenthood, you must recognize how to take advantage of that.
Trevor Beaman [00:48:23]:
But this is the same thing a leader at a workplace recognizes. There was a loss in your family, there was a tragic accident that happened at work. There's a failure that happens. How do you capitalize on that moment to make the most benefit for every single person? And that's what makes, I think a really good leader, is to not make bad things negative, is to make bad things into a positive. And if you can make it into positive over and over and over, the ability for that person, that organization to have a positive outcome is much greater.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:49:06]:
Amen.
Trevor Beaman [00:49:08]:
Right. Because if all I know is, you know, the sky is falling every single time something bad happens, then they start.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:49:16]:
Hiding when bad things do happen, because they sure as heck don't want to listen to your.
Trevor Beaman [00:49:20]:
Yeah.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:49:22]:
Message.
Trevor Beaman [00:49:23]:
Building that rapport for people to come tell you how they're feeling is the ultimate goal.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:49:33]:
That starts with your own ability to look at your own feelings. Because I find that when I'm coaching teams, the leaders that struggle with it the most are the ones that I look at and think, because you haven't dealt with your own feelings and so you sure as heck aren't equipped to deal with anybody else. That takes some guts.
Trevor Beaman [00:49:56]:
Yeah. But if you're shown enough how to be vulnerable, it's not so scary. So going back forward to, like, how this. Why this is happening, why it's so important to have people talking about the things in their life, and it's just life. It's just a story. Those things that happened 20 years ago are just things that happened to me 20 years ago. It's nothing more than that. And I'm just sharing that story, and it doesn't hurt me at all.
Trevor Beaman [00:50:28]:
And so why are we afraid to say anything? It's like that pain is not coming back. I'm in charge of my own life, and there's no pain from anything, from writing, from talking at all. It's totally opposite. It's gratifying to know that you are giving empowerment to people. And if that's it, it's like, read this story, listen to this podcast, and just. I can do it, too.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:50:59]:
And you start to realize that there are so many people that are having similar experiences, or there's that unification that happens when you start to share vulnerably about your story. In fact, one of the reasons that I know that our mutual friend Rachel Coverdell shared your book with me is because she has been part of an experience that I created called rise and thrive for career women. And at the end of the seven months that we spend together, and I just hold up the mirror and help them see them in a reflective kind of way. But at the end of the seven months, it culminates into this event where I invite hundreds of people into this theater, and each one of those women stand on the stage and do a seven minute ted like talk. But it's about their human story. It's not about business. It's about something that they've experienced in their past or during that seven months that showcases to the people in that audience that successful career. People are just humans, too.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:52:03]:
And one of them talked about being made fun of most of her life because she had a shitty haircut in fifth grade. That followed her for like, three or four years after that and how it shaped her character development. Another one is told for the first time on stage that she had struggled with bipolar for years. I mean, her boss didn't know. Nobody knew. We're in this theater, and some of them are funny, some of them are sad, some of them are incredible. They're just human stories. But the collective experience of everybody in that room realizing that every single person around them has some sort of story like that.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:52:46]:
And then all of a sudden, people are laughing and sharing, and there's food and drinks, and I just love celebrating humanity for all that it is.
Trevor Beaman [00:52:58]:
That environment breaks down so many barriers that you can see how people should be thriving. It's like, I want this everywhere. Everyone deserves this because if you can get there, like how much you get back in life because of that moment is immeasurable.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:53:23]:
Yeah those women stay together in relationships from having done that experience. But also the people that come as guests have met friends there in the first year. We're on our 6th year coming up this march and they've met people the first year that they come back every year and like sit together and like have become friends and it just, I.
Trevor Beaman [00:53:47]:
Mean that exact like example is what I would put on to guys who go like the VFW. That experience has bound them for a lifetime and that's what war does. The veterans is that I know where you were and you know where I was. You know what I did and I know what you did. We don't need to talk about it anymore. And that's like if you went on stage and you talked about it one time like I know what you went through, you told me once I was there with you. And so we have this mutual understanding of each other but I would say that it's probably good to rehash some of that stuff that happened. What it'd be like is you watch someone on stage tell something and you never got to ask them any questions.
Trevor Beaman [00:54:37]:
And that's where I think the veteran community is sometimes failing is that there's no more conversation after the event where what you're doing is that people get to come together and interact and you get a feedback of like hey that happened to me. I understand how you feel, which is really cool.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:54:59]:
Yeah, yeah we actually have table discussions so that people can process what they're learning from the stage and I hadn't thought about it in that context. That's really good.
Trevor Beaman [00:55:08]:
That's really awesome to bring it back full for it's the same thing that has to happen in the workplace right. So whatever happens, be like around the room, be like what is your perspective on what just happened to and tell me the story of what you think you saw and im going to tell you exactly what I think and saw and theres no judgment, theres whatever how you say it is how you say it and the next person goes along and says this is what happened at work or this is what happened in the boardroom, this is what I heard and this is how its making me feel and the next person in person goes around and does the same exact thing. Thats how you dont get PTSD.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:55:48]:
That's good.
Trevor Beaman [00:55:48]:
Honestly. That is how you don't hate your job because it like we have this big board meeting and like before we leave, I want to, like, what did you hear me say, and how did it make you feel? Because this was my intent to actually happen, and it's not what came across that that's got to be bridged, because I think you could lose so many people because they didn't understand your intent. Come, bring them back and be like, let's reflect on what just happened.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:56:19]:
I do an exercise where I'll bring teens together, and I'll ask them simple questions. I'll say, okay, write down as many words as you can think of when I say the word, and I'll usually start with something that's related to their business, marketing or brand or whatever, and they do that. And then I say, okay, you get a point for every match that all of you at the table have the same word. Yeah, well, there's rarely any. And then I'll take it all the way down, and I'll say, okay, look, I'm gonna. I'll give you a solid. Let's just use the word dog. Like everybody.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:56:51]:
Like, Nova's dogs, right? And then we'll do it again. And then some people's lists are like, leash bowl. Some people's lists are golden retriever spaniel. Some people's lists are poop and love, but everybody's persuaded of a very simple concept. And I say, how often do you think that you come into a meeting and say, okay, project dog, let's talk about it? And you went off and built a leash, and you cleaned up poop, and you went and researched spaniels, like, people.
Trevor Beaman [00:57:22]:
Then how much do you feel like? Then you come back, and you're like, this is what I came up with.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:57:25]:
And you're like, they do that at the tables when they share their list. They'll be so excited about their list. And then somebody will share it. And the other people at the table look at them like, are you an idiot? And then I have them debrief. I have them debrief. Like, were you judging the leash bull person because you were the retriever spaniel person? And they're like, no, no, no.
Trevor Beaman [00:57:47]:
That's a good lesson on, like, humility, I think, is the right word.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:57:50]:
Yeah, but it goes back to what you said. It's like, based on what I said in the meeting, what did you hear, and how did it make you feel? If you had that conversation during every or at the end of every meeting, you'd realize that you're not on the same page like you thought you were, or you just need a little more context or something like that would solve so many problems.
Trevor Beaman [00:58:18]:
How open ended and then how frustrating the end user end person would feel is. If I put my heart and soul into something that I thought was the right thing to do and you come back and told it was completely wrong, all that. And if that happens over and over, like, your self esteem is destroyed, I would not want to be there. But then it's like, well, I make a lot of money.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:58:47]:
But then you start showing up to the Zoom meetings, but you leave your camera off, you're doing eight to other things instead of paying attention. You're like, listen, it doesn't matter if I pay attention anyway because I'm still going to be wrong.
Trevor Beaman [00:58:59]:
You can do better than that. Be better human.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:59:02]:
Oh my gosh. Thank you for courageously writing this book. No one else can see your fire. And I'm gonna.
Trevor Beaman [00:59:10]:
It's great, right? Yeah.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:59:12]:
So good.
Trevor Beaman [00:59:12]:
Thank you so much for having me on, Rebecca.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:59:14]:
I'm gonna include a link. I want people to buy it and have their own experience with it as you sure.
Trevor Beaman [00:59:20]:
Thank you so much.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:59:28]:
Thanks for listening to this episode. I would love it if you would go to Apple podcast and leave a rating and a review. And then you can go to rebeccafletwoodhession.com and join the Badass Women's Council. And if you really want to take a deeper dive, join the movement of a thousand thriving women. There's amazing thrive tools there for you today. Love you. Mean it. I'm not coming down.
Rebecca Fleetwood Hession [00:59:53]:
Hey y'all, fun fact. If you like the music for the podcast, that is actually my son, Cameron Hession, and I would love it if you would go to Spotify and iTunes and follow him and download some of his other music. My personal favorite is tv land.