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The Space Between – Heaven on Earth is a companion podcast to Awakening – Heaven on Earth.
Through intimate, heart-centered conversations, this series explores the lived experience of awakening — the questions, integrations, paradoxes, and sacred pauses where transformation truly occurs.
This is the space between knowing and becoming…
where Heaven meets Earth through honest dialogue.
Welcome to the space between heaven on earth. This is a companion podcast to awakening heaven on earth created as a space for reflection, conversation, and lived experience. Here, we enter the pause between knowing and becoming, between insight and embodiment, between heaven and earth. These conversations are not about answers or conclusions. They are about presence, about listening, about reasoning together, about meeting one another honestly in the unfolding journey of awakening.
Jeffrey Aylor:I'm your host, Jeffrey Aylor. Again, welcome and thank you for entering The Space Between with us. Welcome to this episode of the space between. Over the course of the conversations we've been having, we've explored awakening, healing, relationship, wholeness and inner integration. But eventually, all those insights lead to a much deeper question.
Jeffrey Aylor:And that is, how do we how do we live this? Not occasionally, not conceptually, but daily. So this episode is called Be the Light Embodying Unity. Because Unity is not something that we realize internally. It becomes something that we express through our presence, through choices we make, through how we respond to life and to one another.
Jeffrey Aylor:So today we're going to explore what does it actually mean to embody unity? And I want to preface this by saying don't wait, don't wait around on everybody else to be light, don't wait around on everybody else to awaken. Do it yourself. Jump out there. You are the answer to what the world needs, and you it's time.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's time for us to to make that commitment, and to make that jump. So with that, let's jump into First of all, let me introduce everybody who's with us today. We have my son Joel, we have Pornadivi, we have Joe Dermody, and we have Sherry Keys. We got a full house today of wonderful people that are going to share life experience. This is one of the things I do enjoy.
Jeffrey Aylor:You know, there are there are many different podcasts that teach spirituality that that go about teaching these principles. And one of the things that I really enjoy about our discussions is that we are just real people living real life, and processing it through what in many cases is a is a new way of viewing our self and the world around us. So with that, we're going to jump right into our reflection questions today. And the first part of this is going to focus on what does it mean to be the light? What does it mean?
Jeffrey Aylor:So I'm going ask you to go first here. So when you hear the phrase be the light, what does that mean to you personally?
Purna Devi:Well, I immediately think of the quote, be the change you want to see in the world. Right? And it really, I think, aligns with your introduction. I cannot wait for everyone else to be positive. Right?
Purna Devi:Also, Martin Luther King Junior said, darkness does not drive out darkness. Light drives out darkness. And I think it's really about connecting with how we're showing up. And am I adding value? Am I elevating the situation?
Purna Devi:And this does not mean toxic positivity. Right? I want to touch on And
Jeffrey Aylor:expand on that a little bit because I've heard that term. Right? And obviously, people can listen to what we talk about and say, oh, you all are just toxically positive.
Sherri Keys:Mhmm.
Joe Dermody:You know, I am and have been a practitioner in the spiritual healing arts industry now for over fifteen years. And I believe that in our culture, there is a lot of
Purna Devi:spiritual superficiality and a lot of toxic positivity. Be the light. Be the light. But without addressing the shadow. I think you cannot have one without the other, or there's some spiritual bypassing going on and possibly some toxic positivity.
Purna Devi:You stay positive, keep positive, and and that can actually be psychological cognitive dissonance. Maybe I'm not addressing what's actually going on because I'm trying to stay too positive. Sometimes the most be the light thing I can do because I love you so much is to tell you the hard thing and not be toxically positive. And, you know, I think sometimes we try to find the bright side of everything. And all of us in this room have gone through traumas and horrific human suffering.
Purna Devi:The last thing you know, when you're in your suffering, the last thing you wanna hear somebody say is, oh, but look on the bright side or, oh, there's a reason for this or, oh, everything will be okay. Those are examples of that toxic positivity. Instead of just sitting in the grief, sitting in the suffering and being honest about what you're feeling, I think sometimes that is actually being the light.
Jeffrey Aylor:You know, I have to say I've actually been told that I'm one of those can be or that I can be one of those toxically positive people. And, you know, going through awakening itself, one of the things I've learned personally is that anyone who thinks that we've talked about this before that this is just rainbows and butterflies and everything is is smooth sailing once you decide you're going to awaken to spirituality it they don't know what they're talking about. Right? I use the example a lot of times of when I see rays of light shining out, all of a sudden, I see all the things floating in the air. The dirt, the germs, the dust, the and and all that stuff is there.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's all there all the time. But you don't see it until the light shines on it. Right? Then you have to acknowledge, Oh my gosh, the air is not clean. There's all kinds of things floating around that I'm breathing in that I'm inhaling and I'm so I do think I do think that there is something called toxic positivity.
Jeffrey Aylor:And, you know, sometimes the first step to recovery is to acknowledge it.
Purna Devi:You know? And I think it's like, these cliches in modern spirituality that's high vibes only. So then if I have a discomfort, I'm internally shamed for it or externally in those high vibe only communities. I say all vibes are welcome. All vibes are welcome.
Purna Devi:Even the ones that make us uncomfortable. Those are those little specks, right, that that loving light can help us to to maybe understand.
Joe Dermody:So when you when you start cleaning, you first need to make a mess. Right? And a lot of times when you're making that that first cleaning, you're gonna stir up all that dust, and it becomes very visible. So that's all in the air. Let it settle.
Joe Dermody:Get rid of it. Clean it up. That's what comes to my mind when you're first talking here. The other side of it too is, you know, in order to help somebody, you first need to help yourself. Right?
Joe Dermody:And I think that's part of getting rid of that toxicity. Right? So before you can help somebody, help yourself. And then when you say you be positive, you've gone through that cleansing process yourself. So now you're even more ready to help somebody else.
Joe Dermody:And I think that's something that we've all gone through or in the process of going through. And I think that just helps us be more ready to help other people. And I think something that, that really allows us to do that is being able to listen. And I think that's something that we can do for others and something that I try to do and have done throughout my life is being able to sit and listen. And I think sometimes that's the best thing we can do for somebody, especially somebody that's going through pain or trying to go through an awakening is is and what they need the most is to be able to talk and work through this and being able to sit and listen to help somebody.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, it's just seeing it, know, there have been plenty of times where I can walk into the work environment and whether it's you or Sherry or you'll say, well, you okay? I'm not always okay. I'm not always okay. This has been a period, you know, the last couple of weeks where in some cases, I'm not okay. I'm not happy with where everything, you know, would think things are.
Jeffrey Aylor:And, you know, do I hope that things will work out? Do I have a positive vision for how I think those things are going to work out? Yeah. Do I have any control over how they're going to work out? Don't know.
Jeffrey Aylor:But you know you can tell. You can tell when someone is down when someone is is is in that and and and and being able to acknowledge it and say, you know, it's okay. And be there to support and lift up. Yeah, I
Joel Aylor:think we we tend to play it as a cliche as always being positive or always being spiritually composed, and it's not always the case. And I think what we've all been saying is the same thing. We're kinda circling around the same word. I think it's just presence.
Purna Devi:Yeah.
Joel Aylor:Being present with somebody, going with going through it with them. You know? So one podcast I've listened to before, a guy who does different psychedelic journeys and things like that, basically felt like he saw Jesus or talked to Jesus and basically, you know, telling him about all the things he was going through and how hard it was. And then and all that he said to him was, me too. I understand.
Joel Aylor:It was just that that presence there of just understanding where he was. Not trying to fix it, not trying to change it, but just being the presence. And think I that's all people really require a lot of times is just being being there for them. They don't need you always to fix it.
Joe Dermody:They just
Jeffrey Aylor:need to know you're there. I think that's our biggest mistake a lot of times is that we we feel the need to try to fix something. Guilty. Right? You know, we want to fix that for somebody.
Jeffrey Aylor:And in reality, there are things we can't fix. And, and you have to let them go through these experiences. They're having these experiences for their own growth for their own purpose. We've got a neighbor, and this is this is it's it's timely because her mother passed away this week. In fact, yesterday, and, you know, she's 93 years old.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's not that they weren't They knew that it was coming. But yet they're still in this this grief and and in some cases denial, you know, that it's happening and that it's happened. And I'm thankful because we're gonna have dinner with them tonight, and it'll be a chance for them. I really want to listen to them. And I can't fix I can't fix what they're experiencing, and they're going to have to go through this.
Jeffrey Aylor:You know, you just you just want to know they're loved. You're loved, you're supported, you don't have to fix dinner, or hey, don't have to worry about that. And just come and relax and and process. Process through it. You know, there's a lot of lot to process through.
Sherri Keys:Yeah, I was just gonna say, a lot of times people don't really aren't expecting you to fix anything. They just want someone to listen and to share whatever that journey is with them. And then that sharing of that journey, there's so much more healing that comes through that. And just digging into my own personal experiences, it was the times that I felt like when I'm listening to, so it's a balancing
Joel Aylor:act, right?
Sherri Keys:You want to make sure that you're not going too far on one end to make sure that that person is in a place that is safe. But the other side of it is you just really need to listen. And that's where I've got most of my strength from, from people I feel like that have gone through a journey with me, understand the pain, whatever that pain is, and just willing to just let me just be me, see me for where I'm at at that moment. And I think a lot of people really feel that way. And that's not through saying it's going to be all right.
Sherri Keys:I think that we eventually get to that understanding, but at the time you just really need to just feel like you're in a place where you can just let it all go. That's my perspective.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, you know, sometimes I feel like you're talking right to me, right? Because you're spot on.
Joe Dermody:It's
Jeffrey Aylor:listening doesn't require a response. So and I'm guilty. I'm guilty of being in a conversation with someone, an intimate conversation, but and again, thinking that you've got to try to solve whatever the issue is that you're fighting or dealing with, and in fact, we don't. Love you. Hate that you're going through that.
Jeffrey Aylor:Instead of trying to fix everything.
Joe Dermody:Sometimes you just need to sit next to somebody or hold a hand or have a hug. You know, that's it.
Jeffrey Aylor:We saw that quite a bit when our daughter passed away, because you know everybody is aching, they try to put themselves in the position that you're in to understand what you're going through, but if you can't, you really can't unless you go through it. And they would say things. And because they just felt like they had to fill the space with with words. And eventually, we got to where we understood that. And we had a lot of grace, because people they thought what they were saying was comforting, and they thought what they said was was appropriate, and and to them it was, right?
Jeffrey Aylor:There was no ill intent behind any of the comments at all. So, you know, sometimes I honestly have to say that that that going through that experience has taught me a lot about communication that I don't I wish I didn't know it. But I do. So, yeah, and Sherry, that's a I know you and I have a lot of deep conversations, and and you'll come and we'll have these conversations. And a lot of times, I probably should just listen and not talk.
Sherri Keys:So I enjoy your feedback. You're the exception, sir.
Jeffrey Aylor:Oh, well, thank you. You give me an awful lot of grace there. So here's this next question. This one this one, I think, is really, really interesting. Have you ever experienced people or a person whose presence alone changes how you felt when you were around them?
Jeffrey Aylor:Porna, what's your experience with that?
Purna Devi:You know, when we talk about this, I usually like to use that example that when you're standing in the grocery line, right, you're in one another's auric fields, Your auric field, your energetic body that extends beyond the physical body ends somewhere around four feet from your own body. So have you ever been in the grocery store and you can just sense the energy for better or worse of that person that is in front of you. So some folks, right, they regulate the room without saying much by walking in. Some folks, on the other hand, disrupt the energy of the space just by walking in. And what's the difference there?
Purna Devi:How fragmented are they from themself? How regulated is their own nervous system? Those are some, I think, really simple examples and touching points to start the conversation off with.
Joel Aylor:Yeah. I experience this a lot in pharmacy because pharmacy is a very small space. There's a lot of people in it. So we're all constantly energetically touching each other, and I can walk into a pharmacy and feel the vibe and the energy right away. I can tell if something's off, if someone's having a bad day or if there was tension before I walked in.
Joel Aylor:I can also feel when things are going good. And I've always been one who's tried to keep it positive in pharmacy because it's so easy to get overwhelmed and so easy for that energy to go low. So I always did, you know, played music, did, you know, crack jokes, kept things light, because we have to work in this small space where we're interacting with each other whether we know it or not. And it was always that was, to me, how I could be a light to my employees and the people who are I'm working with to try to affect them and to make their day better even when I sense things were off. And, yeah, it's I mean, you you communicate before you even start talking to each other.
Joel Aylor:So
Joe Dermody:I've had a couple of coaches back in the day, thinking back on this now, that were super energetic, super high energy, and, you know, you get ready to go out into the field and, you know, they jump around and they're excited and they they pump everybody else up in the room. And that right there is something that is their energy is contagious. You know, you can feel that. I would say also, Jeff, you you put off an aura of calm, which we can feel most most of the time.
Jeffrey Aylor:Most of the time. You
Joe Dermody:also, I I've also been in a car with you, and that door is not there at that time.
Purna Devi:That came two episodes ago,
Joel Aylor:didn't it? Yeah.
Sherri Keys:We're we're going back an episode. Right?
Purna Devi:He's working on it, folks.
Joe Dermody:That he is working on it.
Purna Devi:We'll keep tackling him until he gets it right.
Sherri Keys:That's right. That's right. God is teaching him. He hasn't learned that lesson yet. He
Jeffrey Aylor:keeps putting me in traffic. That's right. Right.
Purna Devi:Around him until he drives.
Joe Dermody:A work in progress. A work in progress.
Purna Devi:Co regulation is right, We gotta
Joe Dermody:Perna, the same thing with you. In on our session, honestly, just this morning, we had a Reiki session that was fantastic. And the aura that you put off is phenomenal, and and that feeling is definitely palpable. Right?
Purna Devi:Thank you, my
Joe Dermody:So But then on the other side, just like you said, you will be near somebody that is not regulated, that needs a little bit of help and you can definitely sense that too. So yeah, you can feel both sides of the spectrum.
Sherri Keys:I'm going to go to what Jeff mentioned earlier. You got to be able to read a room and part of that is just really caring about, this is my perspective. I tend to really want to understand how people are and where they are and how they are and how they feel because I want to be connected. So if I come into a workplace and I'm really used to someone having a lot of high energy and I don't feel that for that day. Without probing, I'm that person that's there.
Sherri Keys:Is everything okay? And so in that case, I you know, that's just what I do. It's because I, it's important to me. They're important to me. I think people that wanna know who you are really do care.
Sherri Keys:And I I think that's, for me, that's key. And also I wanna leverage and and Jeff, I'm sorry. We always like bring you up, but I've been knowing you for almost sixteen years. So for me to watch Jeff present and teach is amazing. I've never seen anyone and I've been in that profession of teaching, but the energy that he brings when he is presenting in front of people and even when he's just hone in on an idea is is catchy.
Sherri Keys:And so from that, you can like it's you can read the room. It's it's very catchy and it's very it's it's something that you can see the passion in, and that's a pretty amazing thing to watch as well. So that's my two different scenarios.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, thank you. I appreciate that. And, you know, I've had a one of the ladies that I work for said to me that I really think you should be in every meeting. And I said, why? She said, because the room is different.
Jeffrey Aylor:Everything it flows different. Everything is different. And I said, well, please, first of all, don't please do not invite me to every meeting. I do not want to be in every meeting because that is for someone like me, I'm an introvert, and that is just an energy drain. I do my best to stay out of meetings if I can because they're energy drains, And teaching is that way.
Jeffrey Aylor:I love to extrovert because you have to at certain times, but it takes a significant amount of energy for me to do that, and I have to then recover. But you all know people that you go into meetings with, and you spend the first fifteen minutes just trying to get them over the negativity and the negative energy that they bring into the space. I will actually go into a meeting room anywhere from fifteen to thirty minutes prior and meditate and do energy cleaning and clearing in the room. And I had a really interesting story because I was facilitating a meeting. Knew it was going to be potentially conflict, a lot of conflict in it, or could be adversarial, and I went into the room, did all my work, it was starting fine, and then the group decided they wanted to move to a different room.
Jeffrey Aylor:Oh my god, so we moved to a different room and the meeting totally went, it went, it went sideways. Because we went into a completely different space at a different feel, a different kind of energy in it. And I, you know, I truly believe energy is all connected. It's all we're all connected in that energetic field. And and and one of the things Sherry and I were having this conversation one day, we were looking at the different frequencies of the seven chakras.
Jeffrey Aylor:There's there's a different frequency at each chakra level that you vibrate at or radiate at. And the higher you vibrate, you actually have the influence energetically of two or three people when you vibrate at a higher level. So one person in a room that's vibrating at a very high level of love or at the higher levels of their chakra systems can pull everybody with them. I don't know if you believe that or not. Feel free to say, yeah, you're right.
Jeffrey Aylor:But I I believe that with all my heart because I've experienced that. I really have experienced that. So there are people who their very presence to me is calming or it's peaceful or they bring joy or you can feel love, can feel they emanate that energy within their field. And some people's aura is also pretty you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I mean, forefoot may be average, there are some people whose auras
Purna Devi:absolutely
Jeffrey Aylor:are huge.
Purna Devi:Absolutely. I, trade energy work with different healers, you know, and have done this, for many, many, many years. And I had one comment on my own that she had to get on her tippy toes and couldn't reach the end of it. And so it just you know, it's kinda cute, right, that she was talking right? Some of us, like you said, have a larger presence.
Purna Devi:And it is something that I've heard people say about, you know, myself for many, many years that there is a presence. And I think that goes back to your question. Right? Like, what, you know, how do those folks like, what are what what is that about when someone walks into a room and they have a presence? Well, I think there is something about the balanced chakra system.
Purna Devi:Right? I think there is some energetic fluidity there. You can sense someone who is meek and mild and also very small in their auric field. Maybe they're very timid. Maybe they've been very wounded.
Purna Devi:Maybe they lack confidence. Their voice has stagnated because of trauma or abuse in relationships. You can feel that just the same. And so for those of us who have gone through the healing and the cleansing, you know, and it's not just one time, it's years and years, and it's a lifetime path. Right?
Purna Devi:We're spiritual aspirants walking this path. I think the more we walk it and the more we cleanse, the more that energetic fluidity, that vitality increases. And so that auric field, I think can shrink or expand.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, I think you make a really great point. And some people I think miss this is that choosing to be light doesn't happen once. You don't make that decision one time and all of a sudden you're just light every day, every minute of every second of every day, and everything is always light. You have to purposely choose it every day and throughout the day you're going to be confronted with situations to make a choice. In fact, think we'll get into that in a couple of questions as we go further into the discussion today.
Jeffrey Aylor:I want to go ahead and move now into this next part of our our discussion around embodying versus just having ideas about these things. Is it really possible to understand spiritual ideas intellectually, but still struggle to live them outwardly and consistently? So with that, what difference what is the difference between understanding something intellectually and actually embodying it? Joel and I have this conversation. This is one we've had many times about how do I move things from my head to my heart so that it actually makes a difference and a change in how I present myself.
Joel Aylor:Well, for me, it's understanding things intellectually. It just changes your thought. To fully embody it, it changes your behavior and forces you to basically confront how you're gonna actually react to to a situation. It's not just thinking about it. So you have to actually live it, and that's a that's a big thing.
Joel Aylor:Yeah. It's something I struggle with a lot myself because I'm very much in my head, very much an intellectual. And I understand things, and I have some sometimes a hard time expressing what I understand or sometimes even fully embodying it. So I'm still very much a work in progress, and, yeah, try every day to to do to do better. So I'm I'm constantly putting traffic as well.
Joel Aylor:So
Sherri Keys:I think I think we all are. And I think for me, it's you know, I have such strong faith. Right? At least that's what I feel. But yet, if you have strong faith, why is your mind is telling to question everything and I, you know, it's a struggle for me.
Sherri Keys:Because I believe that this is, you know, in God's will and things happening, but I'm always trying to, in my mind, trying to control something I have no control over. And it's a daily balance and it's a daily struggle. And I question, well, can you really have that faith and still question? For me, it's just an ongoing lesson that unfortunately, I haven't quite got to where I need to be.
Joel Aylor:I would say always question. It's okay. If you if you stop questioning, then you just you just basically believe anything you're told. So you just you blindly follow, and that's not necessarily a good thing. That's, I think, what gets a lot of people in trouble is we we're conditioned in certain belief systems and understandings, we don't question why.
Joel Aylor:And we just keep going through that, and we don't process things or learn how to change how we see things. And I think that's where a lot of dissonance comes in in relationships and with everything in the world. So I think it I think it's that's one thing that I think has been bad is that everyone thinks that if if I'm questioning it, then I'm then I'm then I don't have the faith, but that's not I don't think that's the case. I think you truly still have it. You have that internal belief, but you're questioning, does this not why does this not match up, or what about this?
Joel Aylor:Shouldn't you know, it's perfectly okay to ask questions, and I think that's one thing that people need to to learn, and that's part of awakening is asking the questions.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, one of the foundational things I want to make sure we communicate here is that none of us have arrived. We are we all are on a journey. Yeah. We're not we're not at a final destination. We haven't arrived.
Jeffrey Aylor:We're all journeying. We're journeyers, and you know the paths that we have taken to get to it's so if we were just to sit down and talk about the four paths of each one of us that has led us to this day and this conversation, and how in the world we're sitting here at this time together would be fascinating. It would be fascinating to understand the the way things have worked that have brought this group together. I Carol said my wife today, she said, well, who's gonna be on the podcast? And I need to introduce Porta to my wife.
Jeffrey Aylor:She's not met my wife yet. But I said, will. You're going to because she's become part of this journey. She's now part of this journey, and and it's beautiful to see how we've all ended up here today. So and Sherry, you know, we're we never arrive fully.
Jeffrey Aylor:We're all still journeying.
Joel Aylor:And I think even if we do, even though all the philosophers say, you know, that we got to got to the got to the destination. Well, that was fun. Let's do it again. Yeah. Let's take a different road.
Joel Aylor:Let's go try something else.
Sherri Keys:Pip, let's try something a little different this time next time.
Purna Devi:I think this is a wonderful question. Right? The difference between understanding and embodying. I think knowledge can and understanding can be cultivated. Right?
Purna Devi:I can read a book about how to play an instrument or how to drive a car, but it's through repetition. It's through practice. It's through, like Joel said, that lived experience that allows me to integrate knowledge into embodied expression. So embodiment, if we break that word down somatically, it's in the body. And we've been talking about somatics since I've been hanging with you all and part of the conversation, and the soma is the body.
Purna Devi:And so to be embodied, to have a belief system or a skill or anything to to have that embodiment of it, knowledge and and wisdom is a part of it. Right? Understanding is a part of it. But I've read all the books. I think about childbirth.
Purna Devi:When I had my son almost seventeen years ago, I read all the books on how to be a good mother and went to all the natural birthing classes. And also nothing could have prepared me for the embodiment of birth giving, right? There is this experience, this integrated embodied expression that is far beyond any book I could have ever read.
Sherri Keys:Well, I was just gonna say that I had to, like, totally embrace exactly those those points there. Thanks for sharing that. Sorry, Joe.
Joe Dermody:No problem. Yeah. I was gonna say I play video games. I read lots of books. I, you know, read stuff about sports.
Joe Dermody:I read stuff about weightlifting. I do all kinds of reading and knowledge, but I I haven't perfected a single video game. I haven't perfected a single sport. I have not lifted the amount I've wanted to lift in any single weight
Joel Aylor:Session.
Joe Dermody:Session. Yeah. You know? So I I know how to do all of this stuff. I just haven't physically been able to yet.
Joe Dermody:So yeah, there's a big difference between knowing how to do it and actually doing it. And to Perna's example, it takes practice. It takes working on it.
Jeffrey Aylor:To your point of in the body, you know there are many sacred traditions that teach that the body is a prison. It's something to be escaped, it's something to be ashamed of, It's something to be suppressed. It's it's it's it's not to be a part of this experience. But what I'm finding is that it is without the body, there is no expression. You know, it's it's how we interact not only with the Earth, the world around us, but the people.
Jeffrey Aylor:And people can't see the inner if we're not expressing it through the outer. So to me, the body is not a prison. It's something to be it's sacred. It's sacred, and humanity is sacred and can be sacred. In fact, I I it's interesting because I think this is had a lot of of download today around this whole concept of the sacred human and building an entire discussion around that concept of the sacred human.
Jeffrey Aylor:It really kind of stemmed from our conversation last week about the alchemical marriage, the the unity of masculine and feminine within, but where is that? Where does that come together? It comes together in the body. And it's expressed in many cases through the body. And I think that that's going to become a really important discussion because I I I truly believe that's what causes a lot of people to listen to a conversation like this and get totally turned off.
Jeffrey Aylor:Because they can't personalize it in their experience and in their human experience. It's not real to them.
Joel Aylor:I'm just not necessarily ready for it yet. Right. There's many many examples of things that I've that I've either bought or or have or or want to do, and I was just not ready for it. And then no. Books are that way.
Joel Aylor:I'll be drawn to a book, something about it, just wanting to tell me something, but I start to read it, and I just can't not quite grasping it. So I let it sit on my bookshelf. And it ages like wine, thankfully. And then I come back to it years later, and all of a sudden, hey. This makes a whole lot more sense.
Joel Aylor:I understand what it was what it's trying to say now. It's just you have to be ready for it, and it's and that's why you have to give people grace to understand where they're at and that we're all in different places and developing at different times. And I deal with this with my own just even in sports. So to bring your analogy, Joe, I have diff I have different soccer players, and I coach them, and they're all at different development levels. I have to understand that and be appreciative of where they are and can't expect them to be this player until they've developed.
Joel Aylor:So all of it just, you know, lots of experiences like that.
Jeffrey Aylor:When as the first analogies, you can take them a lot of different directions. You think about how many great coaches were not the best players?
Joel Aylor:A lot.
Jeffrey Aylor:Yeah. How many of the best I think of Alan Watts. Any of you who are familiar with Alan Watts?
Joel Aylor:Nope. Never heard of him.
Jeffrey Aylor:Yeah. It might be you might have come across him here or there. But he considered himself the a beautiful fraud because he himself struggled to embody the principles that he so eloquently I mean, eloquently taught and expressed. And it's so I think he's a really good example of of someone that's in that category of they were a wonderful coach, they weren't necessarily the greatest player. But does that mean that they weren't a great coach that what they were teaching or what they were expressing was not valid or real or good?
Jeffrey Aylor:Because a lot of people would judge him as a waste, as as a hypocrite. Right?
Joel Aylor:Everybody has an opinion. So, Joe, you were saying something a second ago.
Joe Dermody:I was just gonna say I think the body is something to celebrate, you know, and it's it's given to us to use and and celebrate. I've my body has changed a lot. It hasn't always been something fun to be in, you know, but now looking back on it, even the times when it wasn't so fun to be in, man, what a wonderful learning tool. You know, I have learned a lot being in it, when I was really big and it wasn't so comfortable. Looking back on it, now I have learned a lot, and, I wouldn't trade it for anything.
Jeffrey Aylor:That's beautiful. So So let's let's jump into the next set of questions here around okay. So I'm gonna make the decision to be light. I'm gonna make the decision to to change my life and not wait on other people to do it. But what are the challenges that you're going to face when you make that decision to live unity?
Jeffrey Aylor:So what situations tend to pull people most quickly out of presence and into reaction? You talked about presence earlier, Joel, and how do we go from from being present and processing and and and taking that space between stimulus and response, and responding consciously versus unconsciously and just reacting? So what situations tend to do that to you? Pull. What pulls you?
Joel Aylor:Well, it's this is one of those things where it's it's about embodiment because, you know, these these challenges in in life don't test my ideas, but they they they'll test my nervous system. I'll physically react instantly. There's no time to think. It just I I I find myself reacting to a stimulus, and I have to stop myself. And I'm not always always successful.
Joel Aylor:Sometimes I just react out of old habits and old conditions, and I have to learn from from that and say, you know, even if I make a mistake, I have to, you know, see it, accept it, apologize for it if need be, whatever it may be. I but it's just a constant understanding of my nervous system will react until I learn how to regulate that. If I can learn how to get that stimulus and not respond to it right away, that's the been the biggest thing for me. And then and as a parent, that's one of my things. You know?
Joel Aylor:Children will teach me lots of, you know, patience if nothing else, lots of understanding, lots of patience. So I think that's the biggest thing. It's not testing my thoughts. My thoughts are fine. It's it's it's regulating this body and this my nervous system and how I react and interact with the world.
Purna Devi:I think you really hit the nail on the head because we are pack animals, and it is so easy to speak about presence and stay peaceful when I am by myself. Yeah. Me be in my little sanctuary, my little cave. I got everything the way I want. Nobody is disturbing that peace.
Purna Devi:Now you bring someone else into the mix. And because we live not in isolation and we certainly don't heal in isolation. We grow together. We grow in relation to one another in the world around us. It's in those triggers.
Purna Devi:It's in those moments. And you expressed for someone who doesn't teach on the nervous system, Joel, I'm really impressed with being said that my nervous system responds based in past experiences immediately without hesitation and without my mind's consent.
Jeffrey Aylor:Yep.
Purna Devi:Way before my brain tells a story about what's going on, my nervous system has already responded to the situation. And it typically if I am not practicing, if I'm not an aspirant, if I'm not attempting to grow and heal and better myself and be better to others that I'm in relation with, I'm not gonna catch it. Right? But if I am doing those things and and I do have interest, right, to be more of a grounded, less reactive, and more responsive human, then I can slow down. I can say sorry when I need to say sorry.
Purna Devi:And I'll give you a really nice example that happened last night in the car with my son. He's going through a really difficult time. It's the end of his school year. He's exhausted. And so he's had some stressors that are really very real and lived and embodied to him.
Purna Devi:And he was being really short with everything I said. And I said, buddy, you seem really short. What's going on? And he took a deep breath because he's been around this stuff his whole life. Right?
Purna Devi:He took a deep breath and he goes, mom, I'm sorry. My bandwidth is really low. And I I would like, I I could cry. Right? Because I'm just so proud of him.
Purna Devi:You know, he didn't push back. I I witnessed him gently and lovingly. I didn't take it personally. And we've been practicing this stuff. Right?
Purna Devi:And he's been around it. And so he's got a level of emotional intelligence and he was able to self reflect, reposture, and to take ownership and then to be honest about where he was. And I said, okay, What do you need from me? Do you just wanna sit in silence? And he's like, yeah.
Purna Devi:I just don't have the bandwidth for any conversation right now. I said, okay. And that was that.
Jeffrey Aylor:You both expressed emotional intelligence. Yeah. Not everybody would be willing to accept that answer. No. I really don't wanna talk right now.
Purna Devi:My parents surely wouldn't have. I'd have got backhand. You know? I mean Well,
Jeffrey Aylor:that yeah. Or they would have just felt like they just continued to need to push because they were
Purna Devi:poked and poked and poked, and then, you know, no one gets hurt and and there's not connection. Right?
Jeffrey Aylor:I've got a saying, and it tends to work out quite well, and it is less is better. In most cases, less is better, and you can tell in a situation I think when it's time to stop. It's time to stop communicating and just let presence, right, be what's felt. So I think that's a great example.
Sherri Keys:I think that's perfect, actually. So I'm a zoom and I, at least that's why I'm going to claim this the story. But so there's Sherry, and then there's Sheila. Just gonna just keep it keep it real, guys, because there's a Sherry and there's a Sheila. And
Joel Aylor:You've named it. That's even better.
Sherri Keys:Yeah. I gotta I gotta give her a name.
Jeffrey Aylor:Personified it.
Purna Devi:It's, yeah, that's Beyonce's Sasha Fierce.
Sherri Keys:Right. I mean, it's you just know, and and Sheila, you know, she gets triggered. I mean, normally it's, anything that you feel like is bringing harm to someone you love or, I mean, there's natural triggers to it. And I will be the first to tell you, Sheila needs to spend more time being grounded, but she's working on it. She's getting better with it.
Sherri Keys:But the Sherry side of me is helping that because wisdom kicks in and it's like, you got to start thinking about Because words, sometimes you can't take those back and they're very harmful and know, and you, ah, minute to say that you wish you never said that. So I've learned that you just got to step back in life and give yourself a moment. And one of my mechanisms that I do to shift energy, because this is who I am, is I hug. I'm a hugger and I'm not just hugging for that person to help them, but I'm also hugging for myself. And I find that when you give love that you receive it and it allows that energy shift very in positive way.
Sherri Keys:So yeah, sometimes feel like needs some little coaching, but it's only triggered when you you feel like somebody that your lover loves is being put in harm's way or something. Then you're just like Joel was saying, you just can't help yourself. But yeah, those are kind of how I my coping mechanisms work.
Joe Dermody:We still love Sheila.
Purna Devi:We need to give Sheila a big hug because Sherry, give Sheila a big hug because Sherry is an amazing hugger, by the way. Aw. He's a very good hugger.
Jeffrey Aylor:You know, anybody who hangs around with my work team knows that we are a huggy bunch, and I can well, I think the first time we walked into Purna Devi Healing Arts for Riki one training, the first thing she asked us is, do you mind if I give you a hug? I said, okay, we're gonna get along with her because we're a huggy bunch first of all, but you can also when you allow yourself to enter into that other person's energy, you can really read and tell a lot about them very quickly. It's almost as if telepathic communication can be occurring within that physical connection.
Purna Devi:Well, it's neurological co regulation. It is literal co regulation of hormonal levels. Right? I mean, it's proven science that it lowers cortisol levels and increases all those feel good hormones, right, that help the brain feel safe and relaxed and oriented toward a regulated state.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, think of how many environments where if you were to reach out and hug someone, they consider that to be highly. I mean, you have to obviously understand your circumstance and your situations, but, you know at work, people usually won't do that. They won't allow that kind of connection, and unfortunately I find that if that's what you believe and that's what you want, that's fine. I respect that. I really
Purna Devi:That's why I ask consent. You know, I work with a lot of people who've been physically abused or sexually abused. Yep. They're not trying to touch you. They're not trying to be touched.
Purna Devi:And so
Jeffrey Aylor:My wife is that way, by the way. If you ever meet her, she's one of those people that that she's gonna be reluctant for, you know, whatever reasons to hug. She's not that kind of a person. She struggles with just using the word love. Love does love mean something.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's not something you just flippantly throw around to her. It's something if I'm going to say it, I'm going to I mean it, you know, and I'm not just saying it. And you know, so you have to respect and understand you know what again, we all have our journey. And we're where we are, and respect and appreciate that.
Joel Aylor:So talking about hugs and the the chemical processes that happen because of it. I've learned that, you know, with with my wife, whenever she gets overwhelmed and and very anxious, a long hug, one where she I where I hold her tightly and make her feel safe for at least twenty seconds because it prove it's proven that oxytocin levels go way up and that that that chemical will allow her to relax and feel safe and feel better. So it has to be long. It's not one of those, here, give me a hug and pat each other and be and separate. It if they'll really hold each other for twenty seconds, and it seems awkwardly long.
Joel Aylor:It can, depending on who you're hugging. But if you can do it, it's been it it it's proven to completely calm them down.
Jeffrey Aylor:I remember a circumstance where she was just having a difficult day. And she said, all I really wanted was for your dad to give me a hug. I didn't realize that. I and as huggy as I am, I wish that I had known because it could have completely changed her whole day.
Joel Aylor:That's the inner child in her. Right? It could have completely changed for that hug from
Jeffrey Aylor:a dad. Yeah. And and and you I'm learning, I continually am learning about everyone that I'm around, you know, what, what allows them, you know, today, you know, anytime I see her now, I make sure that we hug and we touch and that we can have that expression. Again, not everybody is that way, and for various reasons, but still I'm finding that there are just some people you want to hug from them. Again, it's their presence.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's just being near them, and if they'll touch you, it it and I'm sorry, but it does I don't have to have a scientific study to prove that that Just now. Works. Well,
Purna Devi:you know, folks stand in line for hours and hours and hours to get an embrace from Amma, the hugging saint.
Jeffrey Aylor:Mhmm.
Purna Devi:They say that she is an incarnate of the divine mother herself. And so, Amma, everyone, if you're unfamiliar, check out Amma, a m m a. She tours and has a whole team and is just this beautiful saint like divine feminine being that, they say her embrace will change your life.
Jeffrey Aylor:Isn't that something? The power of that How do our words and just the the tone that we use with these words influence the energy that we bring into a situation?
Joel Aylor:Well, the fact that you use tone, I mean, you feel I feel targeted now because I feel like I feel like that's my biggest problem sometimes. It's not what I say. It's how I say it.
Jeffrey Aylor:I put that question in here just
Joel Aylor:for me, by You did. You did. I I feel exposed now. No. I think it's that's one of my biggest struggles sometimes is not necessarily what I say.
Joel Aylor:It's how I say it. Because tone often communicates more than the content that you say, and and people remember that interaction long after the words. They'll forget your words, but they'll remember your tone and how they interacted with you. And sometimes I can say something, and it comes across as short, kinda like your your son, Pernod. He you you he's he's not and that's not what he was saying.
Joel Aylor:It was how he was saying it. And you can tell there was something he he wasn't responding the way you expected him to, and I'm guilty of that. And and I try my hardest not to to be shorter and to come across as being irritated. And, you know, I'm I process things internally as well. And so I'm usually just in my own head, and it's not necessarily that person that's caused any problem.
Joel Aylor:It's just it's how I say it. And and I'm very aware of it, but sometimes I still still struggle with that.
Purna Devi:You know, I think that communication is such a difficult thing because I'm bringing to the situation my collection of experiences, my understanding and the way I use language and you are doing the same and those things are never exactly alike. Right? And so to your point, Joel, it was Maya Angelou who said, people will forget what you said, but they'll remember how you felt or how you made them feel.
Jeffrey Aylor:Mhmm.
Purna Devi:Right? And I came from a family where they yelled a lot. It was very angry tone, very short, always frustrated. And I've had to work very hard. One of my shadows, I can be very sharp tongued.
Purna Devi:And I have learned over the years of doing this work and holding space for myself and and other people that I get a lot more a lot more you know, there's a lot more influence and a lot more positivity when I am minding my tongue and minding my tone, minding the words I'm choosing and being really intentional with the way I'm using language, not just even in tone, but just the way I'm using language all the way around.
Jeffrey Aylor:This was a big slap in my face in my process of learning who I am. When I first got exposed to personality type, I was in a training around organizational development or behavioral science at that time, And I just didn't realize how I came across to people. I didn't realize how my words were affecting people until someone openly confronted me about it. And it was again like a smack or a shake, you know, shaking me to to get me done, and I'm like, I that was not what I intended. That was not my intent.
Jeffrey Aylor:But it's what I said, and it's how I said it that drove that. And and then to become consciously aware of those words, I think, is is what it's kind of led me to the the principle I talked about earlier of less is better. I say less in certain circumstances than I would have in the past because I would have said something judgmental. I would have said something or they at least came across judgmental. And I've had to be able to catch myself before I speak.
Jeffrey Aylor:And in many cases, I choose not to speak. I choose not to say anything. I had a situation come up this week where I was I was scheduled to be in a meeting, and quite honestly, I was it was not going to be a pleasant meeting, at least it could have been the circumstance could not have been pleasant. It's obvious that person and I were not, at least in my mind, in alignment on things, and I was at a point where I was ready to just cancel the meeting. I chose not to.
Jeffrey Aylor:I chose to go into the meeting. I did meditation in preparation for it, and and what I found is that words came. Words came to me at that time that I would not have normally said, and it was the exact right thing I needed to say at that time. And there's actually there's actually scripture that talks about, you know, when you go in front of certain people, don't think about what you're going to say. The words will be given to you.
Jeffrey Aylor:And sometimes your ego will jump in and give you words to say, and it's not going to be the right things in some cases, and your spirit will intervene, and the divine within intervenes and helps you. But a lot of times you won't get that without being quiet first and just allowing because you'll I guess what happened is that I actually I felt what I needed to say at that point. And then it's amazing how what I thought was going to end up being a completely negative experience turned. The whole situation turned. And over the period of that day, everything turned.
Jeffrey Aylor:It started turning, and it was like, okay. I mean, I've read about this. I've read about behaving and doing this and just allowing the universe to work things out and not push and not press, and here was an actual example of doing it, and the result was better than I could have expected, Better than if I had tried to manipulate through my own conversation of words, and push or force things to happen. I find that to be So I guess that's an example in my mind of just I was just present and allowed what naturally felt like the right thing to flow.
Joe Dermody:Kind of Jesus take the wheel.
Jeffrey Aylor:Yeah, honestly that's exactly right.
Purna Devi:Jesus take the tongue.
Joe Dermody:Yeah, right? Yeah, exactly. Well, know,
Jeffrey Aylor:the tongue is an unruly fire, know that? That's what you say. Behold what a matter, a little fire kindles. Right? That's a a proverb that and and it doesn't take much.
Jeffrey Aylor:Yeah. Words we talk about. What are they? They are spells. They're magic.
Jeffrey Aylor:They're creative.
Purna Devi:Right?
Jeffrey Aylor:Right? That's why they call it spelling.
Purna Devi:There's something I wanna say, Jeff, that you touched upon, and I wanna expand on it a little bit because you said, well, it's not it wasn't my intention. And I think so many well intended people get stuck on that and their ego really attaches them to poor behaviors because they are so focused on their intention and less focused on the impact of their words or their tone in this right? And right. I didn't mean it. I didn't mean it.
Purna Devi:And what it does is it centralizes the deliverer of the you know, in the dialect and not the recipient, not the receiver of the message. And you can say, well, I understand that you intended it this way, but I want you to understand the impact and how I received it as different. And so for those of us who are doing this work to be in right relationship to others and to to do no harm with that sharp little fiery tongue, self included, my hand is raised here. Right? I must understand the impact of my words and then be able to be held accountable and receive that constructive criticism when I'm saying something and it comes out different than I intended or lands rather different than I intended it to.
Jeffrey Aylor:You know, there's a number of things in practice that we we talk about setting the intention. Right? Before you begin different practices that we teach within our living heaven on earth series, and I know many of the practices that you teach, one of the things you ask is, you know, set your intention. What is your intention in what it is you're trying to accomplish with that work, with that practice.
Joe Dermody:And a lot of times even though we go into it saying that this is our intention, how are we truly feeling about it? You know? And sometimes it's hard to it's easy to say this is my intention. It's hard to truly believe that. And sometimes that really comes out in the way things
Joel Aylor:manifest. Disconnect. It's the I'm saying it in my mind, but I'm not embodying it.
Purna Devi:There it is.
Joe Dermody:Yep. Which goes back to how we started this whole podcast, right, on we we are saying this is what we want it to be, but it's really hard to embody it.
Jeffrey Aylor:One of the most important lessons I'm learning is that the universe does not pay attention to our words. The universe pays attention to the level of our vibration, at what level we're actually vibrating at. And there can be an incongruity between what we say and what we actually believe in are vibrating, how we vibrate at that point. And the universe knows. You may I know your intention, but you're not ready.
Jeffrey Aylor:You're not vibrating at the appropriate level to receive what it is you're intending or asking or what you're seeking. And thankfully, the universe is wise enough to know that. Because sometimes if you get something and you're not ready for it, it can do more damage than it does good in your life. And I have found that as I've gone through this, I was not ready to do this work earlier in my life and in my experience. I was still in preparation.
Jeffrey Aylor:I wasn't vibrating at the right level to be able to receive it and take it and use it and do with it what the universe would intend for me to do. And for that, I'm thankful because I totally would have messed it up. I totally and I may still, but I believe very honestly that the intention behind this work is true, it's pure, Which will lead us into the next. The next set of questions here before we wrap up our discussion about becoming a presence, you know, maybe embodying Unity is less about convincing other people. And more about actually becoming a presence that reflects peace, and clarity, and compassion.
Jeffrey Aylor:I think about people who always think the other person needs to change, But not them. You need to be more peaceful. Well, maybe you're not getting a peaceful response from them because you're not you're not vibrating at a level of peace yourself. So in many cases, that is uncomfortable to turn that around and put the responsibility back on us individually. You're not happy, I always say this, if you're not happy with the response you're getting from somebody, there's a very good chance that in order to fix that, you need to change, not them.
Jeffrey Aylor:Because you're getting the response you actually are listening from them. The energy that you're sharing with them or the. So with that, what does it mean, honestly, to become a calming or a grounding presence for other people?
Purna Devi:I think it goes back to what we've been talking about this whole conversation, and it really is about doing the inner work to become less fragmented in myself. You know, going back to judgment, I used to be an incredibly superficial and judgmental person. It was what I was taught. I was like that in high school. You know, we were very catty.
Purna Devi:We were very superficial. And as I stepped out on this journey of awakening, I realized that I was judgmental and hurtful to other people because I felt horrible about myself internally. I had an inner voice that was really not very kind that I inherited from my mother and God love her, right? She was so hard on herself. And so part of the work that I've done to be a grounding presence was to heal the inner shame, to heal the inner judge and the inner critic and to love myself wholly in all of those places I was taught to feel shame or judgment.
Purna Devi:So then I can hold unconditional loving space for someone else. So I have had to do all of that deconstruction work of the programs I inherited And then to do the practices, to regulate the nervous system, to come back in right relation with my own self, my own wholeness so that I can be loving presence without judgment, without projecting my own story onto everyone else. And it continues to be an embodied practice. Right?
Joel Aylor:A 100%. And no one likes to, you know, put themselves in the spotlight kinda like I am right now in this room. With these new lights that we've got going here, it's making it nice and hot. Feel like I'm in in the spotlight, and no one likes to to think about themselves in that way. They're always projecting themselves on everyone else, their own situation on everyone else.
Joel Aylor:What's their fault? It's not my fault. I'm I'm okay inside here, but at least that's what our ego tells us. And I struggle with that too, and I had to work through a lot of different things to realize, you know, I'm just being hard on myself. I had to learn to give myself grace in order to be able to give anyone else grace because it doesn't work.
Joel Aylor:You know, you can't you can't give from an empty cup, and that was what I would tend to do. And, yeah, it's it's it's an everyday thing. I find myself slipping back into old habits lots of times here and there. But the fact that I'm aware of it, think, is half the battle. Just knowing that I'm I have that work to do or knowing that I I still need to work on this is is big because it you know, it's just no different than meditation when you get distracted, when things go off course, not the way you planned it.
Joel Aylor:That's okay. That's part of the practice. It's over and over. I think that's what we our bodies remember things, and and we tend to just basically replay them over and over because of that repetition. So we have to learn in order to unlearn something that we wanna get rid of, we have to basically do it over and over and over again to create a new pattern, and that just takes time.
Joel Aylor:And we have to be patient and give ourselves grace to get through that.
Purna Devi:Is a practice in yoga, sorry, that is called Pradhapaksha Bhavana. So for all of us listeners who are noticing those unsavory parts of ourself that we wanna change, The practice in the yogic tradition of Pradhapaksha Bhavana is actually utilizing those areas that we find unsavory in our personality consciousness. And when those come up, that is like Pavlov ringing the bell for us to learn to practice the and cultivate the opposite. So if anger is a trait that I'm working on, right, then I am going to note every time I'm angry, note how that anger is disruptive to myself and to those that I love. And then I'm gonna think of the opposites of anger, like patience, mercy, grace, compassion, what you know, whatever it is.
Purna Devi:And then I start to cultivate those. And so now I'm actually using the those seemingly negative aspects of self as a tool and not something to continue to perpetuate, in shame or in in shadow.
Jeffrey Aylor:You're alchemizing. Right? You're transmuting.
Purna Devi:That's Pradhapaksha Bhavana. Yeah.
Jeffrey Aylor:Yep. In India, I'm assuming.
Purna Devi:Yes. Sanskrit. Sanskrit. Mhmm. Sanskrit.
Purna Devi:Mhmm. That's right. From India.
Joe Dermody:Correct. I was gonna say in order to become a grounding presence for others, you first have to become a grounding presence for yourself. And I think that's the whole thing that I'm learning here is I have I had to start working on myself in order to become a better listener, a better presence for others.
Jeffrey Aylor:And it sounds so simple.
Joe Dermody:But it is not. It is not not easy, but it is so rewarding. I find that I can I can just help my friends, my family by helping myself, and it's so much better for all of us?
Jeffrey Aylor:But, Joe, that's selfish.
Purna Devi:What are you talking about? It's super simple in my little cave of peace by myself. It's so simple.
Joe Dermody:And I am
Jeffrey Aylor:so happy that you have
Joe Dermody:you have your cave of peace. And it is so nice. It is beautiful.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, I think what the world says to people like you, and when you make that decision, well, you're just being selfish. You're just being You're just you know, all you do is worry about yourself. You don't worry about other people. Right.
Purna Devi:And, but
Jeffrey Aylor:again, you know, it's you can't we say it over and over, you can't pour from empty cup.
Joe Dermody:Right.
Jeffrey Aylor:You can't give what you don't have.
Joe Dermody:Right.
Jeffrey Aylor:If you if you want to be a calm and grounding presence for others, you have to be a calm and grounding presence for yourself. Yeah, you can't
Purna Devi:fake it. Right? Neurosystems don't die.
Joel Aylor:They don't fake. Yeah. Nope.
Jeffrey Aylor:No way
Joe Dermody:to say that. I wish everyone would be a little bit more selfish then in that aspect. If everybody had a fuller cup, then we could all give a little bit more.
Joel Aylor:I wish it was part of our education system.
Jeffrey Aylor:Because
Joel Aylor:if if you if you teach children how to regulate yourself and turn it like you're doing with your own son, he obviously is showing you the fruits of that. He's emotionally intelligent and knows how to respond correctly. And if we could if we could do that, you know, if we could teach eight, nine, ten year olds how to how to meditate and and and regulate, the the entire world would change in a generation.
Joe Dermody:One, not only that, but if we could teach our own kids that, then we could teach you know, we'd be more more emotionally aware of others that would need the same training and be a little bit more patient with everybody that didn't have it.
Jeffrey Aylor:But the best and fastest way to teach the children is for them to see us do it. Yep. Mean, learn by watching, and they learn by and when they see us doing these things, it makes it easier for them to do this.
Joe Dermody:How about not teaching it out of them from the beginning? Because they all have it from the very beginning. Mhmm.
Purna Devi:Good point.
Jeffrey Aylor:Sherry, what would you like to add here?
Sherri Keys:You know, I think that we all just need to continue to give ourselves grace, right? That, you know, we're constantly learning that, you know, there is we can't fix everything. And for me, that's me. You know, I I wanna fix that. I wanna make sure you're okay.
Sherri Keys:And and and I wanna make it better. And I don't know if that's the CI part of me, but I I strongly believe it's just me being me because I I don't like seeing anyone hurt. But I also have to realize that I'm that's not my my purpose is not to be able to fix everything. In some cases, God probably doesn't want you to fix it. He didn't give it to you.
Sherri Keys:He's wanting that lesson to be learned. It's hard. I mean, it's a hard thing to reprogram yourself to do. But and I'm still on that journey of doing that, but I just need to learn to give myself a lot more grace.
Jeffrey Aylor:So. Well, you know, we we we started this by stating the name of the episode, and that is be the light. And, you know, what does this living and being the light really look like like in real life? That's really what we've been talking about. It's one thing to say that, it's another thing to actually live it and be it and not do it once, but do it every day, and to learn how to regulate within the world.
Jeffrey Aylor:You know, there's a wonderful Christian scripture that says that we are we're in the world, but we're not to be of the world. And in some cases, think that's really what we're being asked to do is exhibit heaven on earth that others might see and experience it through us. So let's just take a moment here and just simply notice, you know, how how do we feel when we're around someone who is deeply present? Now I'm not talking about someone that's perfect. I'm not talking about someone that has everything figured out, but they're present.
Jeffrey Aylor:There really is something contagious about that, and that embodied peace. I actually believe there are some people in the world that exhibit this in such a way that people just wanted them to be near. They didn't even have to talk. They just wanted to be within the presence of that person. And I many books I read, whether it's Mother Teresa, the Dalai Lama, you can read about Martin Luther King, Desmond Tuchu.
Jeffrey Aylor:You you go you go all over the world in all the different sacred traditions, and there's people that people gravitated to because their presence alone was made people feel better. It made them feel better. There's something contagious about that. So I appreciate your all's time. And as we bring this conversation to a close, you know, perhaps unity becomes real, not when we speak about it perfectly, but when we begin to live it sincerely.
Jeffrey Aylor:When we embody unity. It's in how we listen. It's in the way that we respond. It's how we carry ourselves through the world to either we're either reinforcing separation, right, or we're embodying unity and connection. We're choosing love over fear every day throughout the day.
Jeffrey Aylor:And maybe being the light isn't simply choosing again and again to live from that deeper place. And I think with that, the space between continues. As we come to a close, remember that this journey continues in many expressions. This podcast is part of a family of partner podcasts. Awakening heaven on earth.
Jeffrey Aylor:The space between heaven and earth and living heaven on earth are three companion podcasts exploring spiritual awakening from complementary perspectives. Awakening Heaven on Earth offers the core teachings and mystical reflections on unity, love, and conscious living. The space between creates room for dialogue, reflection, and lived conversation around those teachings. Living heaven on earth focuses on basic spiritual practices that help embody these insights in daily life. Together, they form a unified journey of understanding, experience, and integration, inviting listeners to remember their connection with the divine, with one another, and with the living world.
Jeffrey Aylor:You can find all of them available on the same podcast streaming platforms wherever you listen. And if music helps carry these teachings deeper into the heart. The Unity. Awakening Heaven on Earth album is available on all major music streaming services as a musical companion to this journey. Wherever you engage, through listening, reflection, conversation, or music.
Jeffrey Aylor:May it gently remind you you are not separate. You belong to the one life and heaven is already unfolding within you. Until next time. Walk gently, love deeply, and embody heaven on earth.