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Join author and founder of the Center for Wild Spirituality, Victoria Loorz, as she explores the possibilities of restoring beloved community and sacred conversation with All That Is: human and more-than-human.
Stephen: You are listening to a podcast from The Center for Wild Spirituality.
Victoria: Hello and welcome to the Holy Wild. I'm Victoria Loorz, and this is a conversation with human beings who are restoring sacred conversation with all beings. It's a podcast for the edge walkers, those who walk along the edges between an old story of dominance and separation and an emerging new story, an ancient one, nevertheless.
It's a story grounded in kindred relationship with Earth. All it takes is humility, deep listening, and allowing yourself to fall in love again with our holy and wild earth. So I'm guessing that since you're listening to this, you have heard of wild church. It's a way for people to gather together with others in their own home places on earth with the heart opening intention to restore relationship with the natural world.
And in the process, what happens is you end up rewilding your own souls and your human relationships too. This act of not only locating church, I'm using air quotes here because it's not quite, uh, doing church outside. It's really practicing a radical inclusivity. It's more than just locating yourself under the roof of the clouds and the tree canopies.
Really, it's going into relationship and expanding this practice of kindred beloved community beyond even our species. Love is particular, and so while church is an opportunity to fall in love with the land and all the beings human and more than human who share our particular home place on earth, all of which is sacred, which is an easy thing to say, but when we gather as a wild church, there's an intentional spiritual practice that we do to experience that sacred reality.
So this week there's a conversation with Valerie Luna Serrels, the director of the Wild Church Network, and a guide for the Eco Spiritual direction program at Seminary of the Wild. The Luna in her name is my last name too, because we are sisters used to call ourselves the Luna Sisters. We wrote a book together.
It's called The Field Guide to Church of the Wild. And what we did is we interviewed and talked to dozens of different wild church leaders and share their stories and their ideas and their practices and their liturgies and their songs. And we do that because the field guide is mostly a way for you to feel okay that you can do this, that you can start a wild church in your community simply because that's how you need to practice church.
[ Transition music plays]
We, Victoria
Valerie: and Valerie,
Victoria: or as our mother called us Vic. Val Vic. Val Vic,
Valerie: we write this book as a joint effort of love.
Victoria: We've been walking this Rewilding Church path together since it started over a decade ago.
Valerie: And together we have worked to support a growing movement.
Victoria: Thank you and welcome to the Holy Wild. This week I have the director and co-founder of the Wild Church Network, and a guide at Seminary of the Wild, who happens to be my sister, Valerie Luna Serrels.
Welcome, Valerie. We finally figured it out.
Valerie: Good to be here.
Victoria: We wrote the Field Guide to Church of the Wild after the Church of the Wild Book came out because there were so many requests for how do I hold a gathering of people in my wildish space?
And we always knew there's, you know, there's no one way to do this. You're not coming to the Wild Church Network or our wild church leadership course to learn how to do wild church because the ways to do wild church is so dependent on who you are, who your community is, where you are, who are the other beings in your place.
And so I'm excited about this conversation with Sister.
Valerie: Yeah, that'll be fun. We'll see where we are taken on a journey. And just to pick on what you were saying, just the purpose of this field guide and the fact that it is in a field guide format and then within the field guide that it is filled with stories because the Wild Church Network is a living organism and how you described people coming in, whether it's to the book or to the leadership course, mostly wanting logistics, like how do you do this?
And when it isn't given back in the way that they expect, as you know, here's a 1, 2, 3 model that is the invitation into a different kind of learning. Deconditioning really, of how we are raised in schools and our work and our learning to have things kind of compartmentalized in that way. And this new paradigm, however you want to name it, those old ways just do not sufficient anymore.
And as this paradigm is shifting, we are just attuned to what we are learning from both people coming into the network as it grows and develops and changes itself. And from our wild kin, you know, this continuing learning journey about what it means to be human, what it means to be in relationship with the wild world and what it means to be a leader is very different than our past models have have shown us.
Victoria: And we've said so many times, like this isn't like just a little adaptation of what you already do in church. This is not doing church outside. This is in the wild for sure, but it's of the wild it is in relationship with, in a new way. And so it's, it's inherently and necessarily a deconstruction as well as it is a, a reconstruction and something new is emerging.
This is part of that emergence that as we create and adapt and develop spiritual practices that reconnect us with the rest of the alive and sentient and sacred world as worship, as divine connection, as presence of the holy, however, we want to exactly, you know...
Valerie: name that there's, just think that's been one of the biggest, finding the right words right.
In a time when our vocabulary's even changing.
Victoria: Yeah.
Valerie: You know, how do we find the right words to communicate this? And it's interesting, it's how that mirrors this huge shift that we're in from really, you know, I think there's so many ways to even name that, but one of the ways is from a left hemisphere world to a right that are compartmentalizing and you know, kind of that materialist worldview into more of a holistic seeing of the whole and being present for what you had said about emergence.
That is a whole different set of skills and it's a whole different way of orienting to the world and to how we do anything. That deep listening that is called for that invites us into the secret space with the other.
Victoria: Well, it is a huge paradigm shift and so when paradigms shift, this isn't rearranging the organs and the guitars in church.
This is not a rearranging the furniture kind of moment. This is a complete collapse moment that is making room for something that is emerging. And that's tragic, you know, the, the death of a, of a time, you know, as we're watching, as we open up our apps every day, our news apps every day, and it's just so heartbreaking and violent and cruel, what's happening to people as this collapse is happening.
So it's not to minimize that in any way because we're, this is a time of great grief. And so wild Church is also a place that, that grief can be honored on the land that impacts the people as well as the rest of the planet. But to not hold also in mind that this is a necessary phase to, to traverse, to, to be in and not to try to, we can't get, get it over with quickly.
I'd love it to be over with quickly, but how do we develop practices and develop ways of being in relationship with one another and with our place in a way that is honoring life. In a new and yet very ancient way. So that's really what I see wild church movement is about.
Valerie: And death. I mean, listening to you, the word that was coming forward was it feels like this time is an invitation into actually living the paradox.
And what we see is paradox. You know, that's the word we've given to things that seem like opposite, but part of the same hole is the reality. You know, how do we hold that grief and how do we stand for justice? And at the same time also know that we are in a time of decline because there is something new emerging.
So there's these living principles that form the very foundation of religion, at least of Christianity and the universe of life to death and renewal and new life. And we are in that threshold space. And that is not an easy. Space for any of us to be living in right now, even if we're not completely aware of it.
It is the air we're breathing right now.
Victoria: And that means it's really an important time to be in community, in relationship with one another. And when more and more people are leaving churches, you're also leaving that built in community. And so I feel like a lot of people are feeling orphaned or aren't really sure how to, how to not just be in community, have dinner together, but to be in community where we're inviting that sacred part of that spiritual part of our lives to be centered.
And it's an awkward thing to do because it's not, and it's beyond religion. It really, you know, a lot of what most wild churches aren't all one religion. It's usually people that come are from all different backgrounds and all different traditions. A lot of people have left the Christ tradition. Some people are still in it and it go to other churches.
Some people have never been affiliated.
Valerie: So what, what you were just saying about community is, is so important. And that's, you know, obviously the heart of Wild Church is opening a space for a wider, even more expansive way of belonging to one another, to our particular place to the earth, and connected by a wide network of people who are walking this path.
And I, I thought of a, a few sentences and paragraph that we wrote and the book, page eight, it says that "kinship is the core of wild church kinship is recognizing that our beloved community includes the whole alive, interconnected world. Wild church is an opportunity to live into that intimate kinship with other beings.
And in doing so to reclaim our own wildness. Which is another word for essence, true self and wholeness." So it feels like a part of what is calling from this time that we are in that deeper sense of, of belonging and knowing ourselves as more than just I and as more of a connected whole part of an ecosystem.
That we are not just individuals, but we are a collective that includes kin of all other species and it's a different way of orienting to the world that is also, I think, like we've already said before, there's also ancient and is expressing itself in new ways now because of this time that we're in.
Victoria: Can you share a little bit about what the Wild Church Network is and the kinds of people that start these gatherings or are, are looking for these gatherings and how it's growing or what's happening with it?
Valerie: Yeah. Well, I think we've already pointed to what it is, these places of belonging in community with others outside, with the invitation of intimate relationship with the rest of the living world as spiritual being, as spiritual practice, as a way of orienting ourselves to a new world and to listen for what is emerging, to really deepen into practices that allow us to move beyond what we already know and into what is unknown, because that is the space that we are actually in.
And it's been, you know, what a beautiful journey to be part of the network for so long, because to see it transforming and kind of morphing into something new that we hadn't anticipated in the beginning. We started out, of course, within the Christ tradition. And that was one of the pillars, if you remember.
Victoria: Mm, I remember that. Yeah.
Valerie: And then over the years we had to revisit that. Because people were finding us from other traditions, from other religious traditions or from tradition, you know, no tradition, spiritual, but not religion, interfaith, interspiritual. You know, it didn't feel right if say, there's not a place for you.
Of course there's a place for you. And as we've kind of deepened into this, it feels like culture has changed too.
Victoria: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Valerie: And that we are entering a time of synthesis and of integration where we name a tradition that may have helped shape us, but there's something else at work in the world too, of, of even holding that loosely or, you know, deeply being devoted to it.
But at the same time, allowing that integration to take place where there is no other, where all belong. And that we can find a common core regardless of our, of our background. So people coming in are not just from the Christian tradition. There were people on the, um, we called the introduction to wild church call once a month, and the other day there were, I would say maybe half or less than half from the Christian tradition, some who were still in church and wanting to start a wild church, an ancillary kind of wild church experience.
And some who were, had been in church and were, you know, had left the church, but were still pretty grounded in their, in their faith. And then the other half were, one was, you know, said he was agnostic and just loved nature since he was a child and it has led him his whole life. Others who would, you know, say they were, had a shamanic or you know, pagan history and or Buddhist or Sufi.
So there's, people are exploring spirituality in different, you know, manifestations. And there's the common core of this earth reverant orientation to all of them. And so there's a way into this that is beyond just religion, although I think it is also reshaping what we think of as religion.
Victoria: How many wild churches you think there are both within the network and beyond?
Valerie: It's a good question. I really, I don't know. I know that there's over 200 in the network itself, but then I find new wild churches all the time online or you know, someone references and I'll look them up and they're not part of the network. So it is bigger than the network. But one of my impt is to say, please join us.
Because it feels like, you know, especially the work of Margaret Wheatley who talks about, um, and has the research on emergence and the idea of emergent, you know, rooted in network. And I remember when we first read this, right? So excited. I'm like, oh my God, this is exactly what happened with the network and we have no idea.
And I think the fact that we had no ideas why it happened, and that's the whole thing with the emergence. And she talks about how it starts with networks and, but it doesn't stop there. So that within a network there are different communities of practice that are connected by a common vision. And out of that connection it's like that third way open that no one church or no one person could do on their own.
And from that interconnection brings what she calls a system of influence that happened that then changes culture. So yes, it's about each of us doing our work in our place, our individual unique offering, and depending on the people and the place and all of that. And it is the fact that we are interconnected in a common vision with a common.
You know, I wanna call it goal, common vision of a new, you know, world that is rooted in reverent and that sees all as sacred. So that excites me. Just knowing that in that interconnection itself is almost like a magnetic field, it creates something more than we know, more than we can even give words to.
And it feels connected to other writers who are naming this time of shift in religion so eloquently, like Ia Delio, who talks about, you know, the, the present state of religions is, is mutating. And what is coming is more of a, you know, multiple spiritual path converging that has to do with expanding consciousness and, you know, creating a sense of shared wholeness that feels so aligned with what wild church is about.
And. It's interesting how it happens because it's not like we're saying, here's our goal and here's 1, 2, 3, how we're gonna reach it. We are simply aligning ourselves with the living world, with the alive energy that exists. We can call that spirit, we can call it the holy wild that is moving and bringing something into being.
And we are part of that. And that feels exciting.
Victoria: And it, and it helps too, knowing that you're doing this little thing, like what difference can this possibly make? You know, we're sitting around here, which I wanna ask you a little to share a little more what, what happens in a wild church, but, but we're sitting here, we're sharing, you know, our experiences.
We heard something sacred, spoken to us from a tree or something, and it feels very intimate and very personal and very local. But then you can kind of get into that place of like, yeah, but how's that's gonna impact the whole. You can't see it, but like what you just said, it can help you settle into this is what I'm called to do and I'm doing this and I'm part of something that's connected.
And it's more than just, yay, we're gonna make a, get a whole bunch of wild churches in the world and then we're gonna take over. That's not at all. It, it's what you're saying. It's, it's that something beyond us is happening as we are faithful to this calling.
Yeah.
Valerie: And so to see us as co participants and an evolving and as co-participants in God or the divine, that we are actually co-creating, you know, as we deepen into practice, as we open ourselves to what we don't know, as we learn to listen deeply to the wisdom of the earth and one another. And there it, you know, the cross fertilizes with all of the new studies and research around consciousness and how that is related to, you know, changing culture because we actually have more agency than we think we do.
You know, just by our thoughts or just by our feelings, or just by opening to relationship with the river, with, you know, my neighbor listening through a bird. That everything carries the voice of the sacred and there is a shared consciousness that we are a part of. And when we are consciously conscious of that whole field that we are a part of, we orient differently.
It just feels different. It's like everything matters, you know, not as a way of needing to do everything perfect. And so usually you would think, oh, you know, I better pull off the cuff. But, you know, climate change and all destruction of ecosystems and I have to do all the things correctly. And whether that's, you know, the recycling and solar panels and organic food and all the things that are not, those are great, those are wonderful.
But when we put ourself in boxes and then kind of feel bad or shame around that, it is those things, you know, and yes, not, don't not do those things, but how are we in relationship with ourselves, with the earth, with even product, with everything, you know, how are we in relationships? How do we hold those in our awareness?
We don't realize how important that is. You know, not just our actions, but our internal awareness
Victoria: and love. You know, relationship is at the core of, of not only this movement, but of the paradigm shift that is necessary. And so it's so interesting how the opposite of that is kind of rising again, as it always does within humanity.
I wanted to say this before I get caught off on another direction. It's just like, has, as you talk about this, they're just very feminine values, very feminine ways of being very feminine leadership. And I think that's part of the emergence, is correcting that imbalance of, within our system that is very masculine and very, you know, at least toxic masculine.
And so bringing, we've heard that from so many places that revival, the re, the, the emergence, the rising up of the feminine is essential right now.
Valerie: It is, it is the leading shift from dominant to cooperation to relationship and how civilization has been just enthralled with dominance and power for so long.
And what can a new kind of, what does power really mean? What does mean and be empowered. What do we do with our power? You know, there is a whole empowerment movement that is essential, and I've just been thinking recently about how important that is, as especially as women to feel empowered, to speak up, to allow our voice to come forward in ways that really resonate with our inner truth, and to begin to trust our intuitive knowing.
You can see this in so many different comparisons. I, I've already brought up the left atmosphere of the brain, which is very, you know, I would call it masculine, just from a generalized, you know, way of looking at it that takes things into parts. It's mechanical, it's logic, it's wanting to know. And then the right hemisphere would be more of the feminine of seeing in holes and just the integration of both masculine and feminine of the brain itself and the studies that have been done about how reliance on the left hemisphere of the brain has led to the culture that we're in now, and alternative ways of, of knowledge. What do we mean by knowledge and knowing and how intuition of receiving, of receptivity, you know, these words that have a very feminine quality are, have been mostly suppressed over time.
And you can see why, looking at history, just the evolution of science and that kind of knowledge, and we don't not want that anymore. Or, or, you know, there's nothing wrong with that. Let's say it's just like you said, becomes so imbalanced. The way of wild Church is very oriented to developing those capabilities that are already inherent in us.
They're already in us to some degree or the other. We all have intuition
Victoria: and, and in a way, well, not in a way in all ways. You can't do this from your head, from the logic, from the linear. You literally cannot engage in a sacred conversation with a tree or a deer or a forest from your head and expect to speak out loud in English and hear the tree to speak back to you in that same language, because that's ridiculous.
But it's not ridiculous to have a conversation that moves from your head into your heart. And so it's a heart to heart in all of those alternative ways that you're talking about creativity, imagination, and intuition, and all of these communicating through smell like Gary Nabhan talked about. That conversation is deeper and bigger and wider and more mysterious than exchanging words.
You know, I think that those kinds of practices are what happens in wild churches, right?
Valerie: Yeah. One of the, one of the practices that I like to use is exactly that. To first even identify in ourselves what it is to look at a tree. So look at it. Discover it, observe it. You know, that's our left hemisphere, that's our everyday go-to.
Oh, it's a beautiful tree. Oh, it's an elm tree. It's, you know, and describe it. And then to, you know, to come back to the body and soften your eyes. Another word, you know, softening. Um, to soften the gaze at looking so that you're no longer looking at the tree. And you kind of drop your expectations of what that is and enter a state of unknowing.
And then the next phase of that is to kind of just suspend everything that you think you know about a tree. And this takes time, this takes practice. And close your eyes. Bring the tree into your awareness. And that kind of inner relating and awareness that there still is the tree, even though I'm not looking at it.
Brings people, brings us into a different way of relating to that tree, into more of a state of communion, into more of a, a state of being able to actually listen without, you know, not our ears, but our inner listening. And to trust that space in us that is connected to that tree and just see what rises and give ourselves permission to play with that, and then take it seriously, but also playfully and be able to talk about it if you can.
Sometimes you're right, words don't come, but you might have a bodily sense. There might be something that comes up.
[ Transition music plays]
Victoria: So here's a quote from the field guide to Church of the Wild. "We don't pretend that we know what is emerging. Mostly it's about living with and living into the questions. We do know this. What is needed now is a way of relating to the world beyond creation care, which is still rooted in a hierarchy of superiority as if we know how to take care of creation. What's ultimately required is a change of heart, a shift in how we relate to each other and to the whole of the living world. It's a shift from stewardship to relationship, and this is inherently spiritual work."
Every year, Valerie and I offer a wild church leadership course through the Center for Wild Spirituality.
It's a seven week course to support those who feel a tug to explore the possibility that you might just be the one to start a wild church in your place. In this course, we explore the most common elements of Wild church and bring in different wild church leaders to share their stories because there's no one way to restore relationship with place.
And remember our role in this particular web of life, we can only share our own little moments of poetic wisdom that we've learned along the way as we story the land where each of us live. Restoring our relationship with the land through spiritual practice is a pathway of restoration. It's as important as planting trees and restoring prairies.
Re-storying our relationship with Earth as sacred kin provides a spiritual and emotional foundation of belonging that we all need to support the many layers of work that's ahead of us. The next Wild Church Leadership course begins this August. If you write the word podcast in your registration, you'll get a $50 discount.
Check the Center for Wild Spirituality website for details.
[ Transition music plays]
So in the field guide, what you're talking about there is part of one of the chapters which we begin the book with a chapter on grounding, like just being really present, asking permission to be there, being really present and in our hearts. You wanna talk about that first chapter a little bit because that's,
Valerie: yeah, I, I mean, I see that as foundational.
I think that's why we decided that. Well, it is, it's the beginning so that, it just feels like there's different layers to that. And one of them is to just invite ourselves and the people who, who are coming to a, a gathering to come back to the body and the five senses first. So often we are, we are in our heads most of the day, and it takes an intentional.
Pause or invitation to sink deeper into just our body and our five senses. You know, that's like the first layer. And I'll invite people to sit and look. Let's use your eyes. What do you see? What do you hear, what you smell? Put your hands on the ground, what do you feel? And then just to feel the earth beneath us, supporting us and holding us and inviting that kind of grounding that we are held by something much larger than just our body.
But it starts there with our body and then in relationship with the body of the earth. And then I'll invite people to then close their eyes and to sink deeper into that inner landscape, to their heart center, to their belly, to the inside, the that inner place of stillness. Even with all the movement that is around all the time almost, and into that inner silence, even though around us may not be silent at all.
And to find that place within us that is receptive and open to be in relationship, to hear and see and know in different ways beyond the five senses. So that, you know, to me is a grounding into the earth, into our body, and into a different way of orienting to the world from our interstate and that matters.
Victoria: Yeah. And so in that chapter, I think a lot of what you just said is there, and then we've got multiple ideas and practices and ways of grounding and, um, beginning and then the whole book is kind of oriented as like it says a field guide. So we, what we did is we took the most common elements that most wild churches have some connection with.
So that those are each of the chapters.
Valerie: Yeah, I think we, we named the grounding one arrival, like how you Arrive matters. And some people, you know, their practices are, are drumming as grounding how beautiful or singing or chanting or breathing. Just coming back to the breath, bowing, bowing in the four directions, bowing to the earth in each other.
Victoria: We're approaching this place with reverence and we're approaching each other with reverence and even ourselves, and we're approaching the holy as we would approach the holy and so it is a sanctuary. It is a church. I get some pushback, like, why do you use the word church? That's so yeah. And so wounding or whatever, and for some wild churches, they choose, many of them choose to not use Christian language. Because of that, I chose to use it and we chose to use in the beginning because to me, when we put together Church and Wild, it just redefines it. It had a different purpose in the beginning of, of defining what this is and when you're gathering locally, like use the language that is appropriate for your community and for your place.
Valerie: Yeah. And so even given the fact, I mean I know we've talked about it even over the years since then, saying should we change it? Um, which for some reason still doesn't feel right. I, it, it has its way of being in the world and I'm always surprised that people still gravitate toward the Wild Church network, even if they have little association with church or a negative association with church.
So they're still drawn by something that the words together hold.
Victoria: Well, and it, and it's redefining it. It's, and so there are words that need to be redefined. There are words that need to be surrendered. There's some words like Christian, that I don't really like to use 'cause it's just kind of too hot right now.
And with a different meaning than what I mean by it. But to me, people know what church is. They're a lot of, everybody knows what it means, but to redefine it. And, and because we, what the core of it is, is a coming together in reverence to collectively honor that. Yeah. And so we need those kinds of gatherings in our lives by redefining it, we're able to do that.
What Ken Wilber talks about, the include and transcend, you know, we're gonna include the core of what it means to gather with intention in the spiritual practice that draws us deeper into love and relationship with one another, and relationship with the holy and relationship with the earth. We're gonna do that in a way that is not, it is intentional about, and it's a constant intention, intentionally not bringing the parts of the institution along with us that, that we know are harmful.
And so sometimes we have to remember that and go, wow, I'm just kind of, here it is again, you know, it's layers. It's not like an instant.
Valerie: And almost like all the words, all the vocabulary that we get used to, all of them are kind of being redefined. You know, I'll say something that, I can't think of an example right now.
Victoria: Worship. Worship is one.
Valerie: Oh, there's one. Yeah. It just, I can't, it feeling it coming out of my mouth. For others it's, it's fine. And, and it's, they include that word in how to describe their gathering. I can't do it anymore. I can't use that term. Evangelical background was right, wounded. So it's, it's non resonant anymore.
Victoria: And for me, like I had somebody challenge me when I was doing a workshop once and they said, the Bible says that you should not worship trees. And what hit me when they asked that is, how do you define worship? How do you define worship? 'cause the word worship means worth, it's worthy of my devotion and love.
And if that's what worship means, then yes, I am worshiping a tree because the trees have worth, and I'm showing my honor of that. So that's an example of how we can kind of shift a meaning of something. Or like religion, you know, like I've always said spiritual but not religious. But it's like, if it's a new understanding or like an original understanding of this is a re uh, practice of reconnection, then I can say, okay, yeah, I'm spiritual and religious, but not in the way you might be thinking about it. Right. But some words take too long to like redefine when you're talking about it. Yeah. And you just avoid it.
Valerie: Well, even the word God. I remember in the beginning of the Wild Church network, we, all of us had a good year I think, of really talking about the word God and what word they were using instead to, you know, ultimately describe the numinous and what is unnamable.
But really depending on their own journey and the community that they, you know, had, have gathered and going through different, even iterations of their wild church because of vocabulary and becoming uncomfortable with using the word God. But then others in the group who. Didn't like the word divine or goddess or whatever.
So it is a whole field that is changing.
Victoria: It's undoing the old and, and recreating, and so we recreate with a lot of the same materials, you know? And so we're repurposing language all the time. And so maybe as a last, uh, question here, um, although we could sit here and talk all day, literally just going back into the book, that what are some of those other aspects of a gathering that most wild churches include?
And, and we also, I want you to share some of those, but I also wanna give a plug for the design of it. You know, we designed it, uh, around a tree. We sort of initially even envisioned that in the first book proposal. That it's this interconnection of a tree. The, the, the trunk of it and the branches and the roots are all, how the book kind of evolves and opens up.
And it's designed sort of as a field guide, at least a tongue in cheek, fun way of, of seeing it. And my daughter and their partner, Ollie and Manny, designed this together. Manny is a, is an illustrator and Ollie is a book designer. So the, the publisher Broadleaf books were willing to let them design this. So I'm really excited about the design as well.
But yeah, why don't you just cover a few of the other aspects of Wild Church that are generally included and how people can use this guide.
Valerie: It is a big part of this book, the design. It absolutely is the illustrations, the way it's laid out. It was really exciting to see what they put together. We thought about how to lay this out. Just the elements of a wild church that might be, you know, used in any order. But we laid them out in kind of how they unfold during the gatherings that we've become a little bit used to. And so there is a, a whole chapter on ancestral reverence. And really it's about acknowledging the story of the land.
And that does include, you know, what is, what is the history of the watershed that you live in more deeply? What is the history of the land and the people of the land, the indigenous peoples who lived there and who continued to be part of the land itself. So there are different stories and practices around, you know, yes, land acknowledgements that are part of every wild church gathering.
Also kind of pointing us, you know, deeper than just an acknowledgement for an acknowledgements sake, but to acknowledge the land, the ancestors of that land, the living, um, descendants of that land. So it's filled with different, not just acknowledgements, but different stories too, about how different wild church leaders have, you know, built relationships with indigenous communities and, you know, expanded their relation.
And also for many of us coming in, wanting to relate to our own earth honoring ancestors. And so that really addressing appropriation as well. Um, I know that was one of the, one of my stumbling blocks in the beginning as I was just paranoid to appropriate any Native American technologies, practices, rituals.
And I spent a few years diving into my own lineages, which extend back into mostly the Celtic traditions, spiritual traditions. So that kind of work. And, you know, people finding their own way with this and doing their own research and relationship building and their community. So that one's full of different ideas and stories and acknowledgement, um, to learn from and really to also approach rituals like that, that they arise from the land herself.
And so replacing the liturgies and stories and prayers that we, you know, often bring or that arrive to us in a gathering,
Victoria: the role of replacing our liturgies and our stories and our rituals is something, you know, it's become, we've become displaced on so many levels, even if you've lived in the same place.
The, the liturgies will, will read from the church are necessarily, you know, they're from large denominations, are necessarily for people from all different kinds of places because we're so acclimated now to not being placed. And so this, this intentional replacement of everything, of our lives, of our identity.
I love, and I use it all the time. The invocation that you wrote, that you offer to others in this book about honoring the particular mountains, the particular seas, the particular animals, the particular things that are happening because of climate change in your place, you know, and so there's this particularity that is really important in this whole movement and in this emergence.
Valerie: Yeah.
That invitation into deeper relating with those particular being. And we also talk about this in the book about, you know, ritual actually arising from the land itself so that, you know, to really just notice what does that mean? And then thinking about that, when we were writing the book, I, I came across, researchers had observed that the branches of certain tree actually changed position over the course of a day that they rise and fall in a pattern like every three hours and up to leave in a couple of inches and then kind of turn to their normal position when the sun rises.
So it's just an interesting look at, you know, a simple movement of a tree, but that, you know, what, how does that translate? You know, that just felt like to me, like a, a liturgy of the hours this rising and falling this, you know, observing the sunrise and the sunset. And then in between there is these movements that when we sit with those can unfold a way of just being really attentive during the course of a day that this tree is showing us. And of course the, the feasible rituals that we all witness with the trees themselves and, you know, the falling of the leaves, the, the blossoming, the blooming, the garden. So we are in constant contact with the natural rhythms and rituals of the year and of the day.
And that we can bring more awareness to those
Victoria: even when it's cold and even when it's, it's cold, wet and uncomfortable. And I think we're so, you know, addicted to being comfortable all the time that just going ahead and meeting anyway. Most, there's a lot of wild churches that meet in way north, you know, Ontario where it's freezing right for 10 months a year and they meet all year long. So I think just the fact that they meet all year helps them to deepen into all the realities of where we are.
Valerie: Yes. And that that can become part of our daily lived experience that yes, it can, it, you know, gathering like that can offer us everyone a place of belonging and sharing and learning and participating in, in maybe new ways and ways that are fulfilling and nourishing.
And then it can also become part of our life, but become to be aware of what is really happening outside our window or when we're taking a walk or when we're in our garden. And bring more of that awareness and reverence to, you know, everything that we do.
Victoria: Yeah. And that's where it kind of taps into the advocacy kind of thing, that there are other things to, you know, to try to keep up an advocacy where you're trying to be purist and you're trying to do everything right is just really not sustainable.
It leads, it can lead to burnout and just a sense of, like you said earlier in the podcast, you know, a sense of shame that you're not doing enough. But when you're approaching it as a relationship and you've been observing, you've been paying attention and you've been building relationship, then it's just natural that you're going to care more, that you're going to be involved to protect what you love.
Valerie: Yeah. It's a different approach. It's a different, it's a different way. And I think that's kind of at the core of everything we're talking about. And really at the core of that, and at the core of any wild church gathering is a wandering as saunter. Do you wanna say more about the importance of wanderings at the center?
Victoria: I mean, I have mentioned it before, but it's like there's a core practice that I think every wild church utilizes and puts into practice. We certainly use it all the time at Seminary of the Wild Earth. It's, it's simply going out availing yourself to the holy and the wild through, you know, we call it wandering, but it's basically walking with reverence, slowing down, paying attention both to the outer landscape and the inner landscape that you mentioned before.
And when those two sort of like connect in some way, maybe that's a way to explain. When you're drawn to a certain place, then you're drawn to a place to settle down and listen more deeply and enter into what I'd call sacred conversation. But it says, it's what you had described earlier of listening and responding and being aware with all your senses and beyond your senses, that there's an actual connection happening here that, you know, I was, I was in a call the other day and.
Somebody was saying how they understand how their dog has emotions, obviously 'cause they have a dog. But how can we say that the other beings have emotions? And my response is like, how can you not say that, that this doesn't even make sense? That that life would know that this domesticated creature has emotions and none of the others do.
It just doesn't make sense. But we don't know that because we don't slow down enough to, to listen and pay attention.
Valerie: That is the key word. The slowing down, the approaching with reverence. And you know, part of that is this crossing of the threshold that we talk about and, and then that feels like a key part of it.
And even to do that in our daily life, it's like, where are those thresholds where we cross over from our day to day kind of mind unconscious. Yeah. We just do our day. You, we, we drive to the store. We plan, we make lists and all of that. And what does it mean when we can cross a threshold into a different way of awareness and that we can do that in our daily lives?
And that in a wandering, what we call a wandering how essential that is, it's like if we approach the trees and the brook and the fallen logs and the crickets or whatever it is, um, with just our day-to-day kind of mind, we're, we're, we're gonna be in our descriptive kind of note taking brain of, you know, noticing what's there.
We might say it's beautiful. We might say any number of things from our, from our mind, but that slowing down and be and entering into a different space within us really opens up the relationship and a lived experience of the aliveness of everything. It is a practice, and it is something that takes time and repetition to become part of our actual worldview.
Victoria: And you reminded me too, of the other practice within that that's really important. And you can feel the difference when you don't do it, is asking permission. When you feel drawn to a particular place or a being or to just sort of internally or maybe externally ask permission. I'd like to enter into conversation with you.
I'd like to sit here and, and be with you. Is that okay? And, and you'll feel the difference. You know, it's sort of like if you meet somebody in a, in a coffee shop and you just sit down and start talking to 'em. It's weird. You wouldn't do that. You would ask permission to, is this seat taken? You know, and you would enter in with reverence and with respect at least into conversation.
And so it's the same thing. And then when you're complete in this, in this interaction. To cross back over that threshold. And I'm not sure why that's important, but it is. There's something about beginning and ending rituals that it doesn't mean, oh, I'm gonna go back and be unconscious again. It just means that this is a reverent set apart time and space and I'm being intentional about that.
And that doesn't mean that all of life isn't sacred to use a double negative because it is all sacred. And there's something about holding and creating ritual in, in our daily lives that we can learn and and practice in these kinds of wild church gatherings.
Valerie: Right.
Victoria: So Valerie, how do people get in touch with you if they are curious about or ready to start a church of the Wild, wild Church, wild sanctuary in their location?
Valerie: Yeah. Even if it's curiosity, you know, whatever stage you might feel drawn to find out more about a wild church or. If this is something that you know your life would like to participate in, um, there's several ways you can get involved. You could go to our website, wildchurchnetwork.com and fill out a form or send me an email at valerie@wildchurchnetwork.com.
You can also go to our shared platform with Center for Wild Spirituality called the Ecosystem. It's on Mighty Networks platform. It's free to join, dedicated to the programs through the center and the Wild Church Network Gathering Place. But it's also a place for anyone to come and find out more about ecopirituality, and you can find me on there and send me a a, a message and you'll find more information about the Wild Church Leadership Course coming up in August on both the Center for Wild Spirituality and the Wild Church Network websites.
May the spirit of the abundant earth awaken you to live in the knowledge that you are of the earth, from the earth and returning to the earth.
Victoria: May the tree of life rise up in you, root you deeply into the ground and nourish you to extend your branches out into the world.
Valerie: Blessings of the earth, of the great conversation that holds all things together be upon you with boundless gratitude. Amen.
Victoria: Amen.
Thank you sister.
Valerie: Fun, sister. Thanks for the conversation.
Victoria: Love you.
Valerie: Love you too.
Victoria: Encounters with a holy wild happen when we are open to them. When we approach the natural world with reverence and an open heart, each week I offer an invitation to wander in the wildest places in your home and to do so with reverence so that you might enter into sacred conversation with the holy and the wild yourself.
For this week, I want to invite you to wander around some of the wildest places in your community. A park, a garden, you know, even a, a parking lot that has some weeds would count. And to ask a question, to ask a question of your place that might feel a little uncomfortable if you're not used to addressing the natural world as a equal and significant other. It takes a little practice to unlearn centuries of disconnection. You can do so within your own heart. You can do so with a gesture. You can speak out loud, you can sing. But after you cross a threshold, some threshold with this intention to listen, with reverence to the conversation happening all around you, and then to trust your own inner embodied responses to whatever the wild ones choose to respond to you.
Like John o' Donahue says, whenever you approach any other, a tree, a child, a landscape, when you do so with reverence, great things decide to approach you. So ask this question, are you inviting me to start a version of a so-called wild church and to do so with you in a way that honors this place and honors my own longings?
So I send you out with many wild blessings.
Melissa: Hello, my name's Melissa. I'm calling from Santa Cruz, California, the unseated territory of the Awaswas speaking peoples. I wanna tell you a story about my sacred grandmother, Oak tree. She's a tree that's over hundreds of years old, and I would go to her many years to sit in her branches and receive wisdom and feel lifted towards the sky and connected to the earth.
And one year we had some major winter storms come through, and she was split by the winds. Her whole body, the trunk of her broke. In half and she was spread across the ground and our whole community thought that she had died. And one day I went with, went to her and my grief and was just sitting with my back against the parts of her trunk that were still upright and amongst the branches that were now reaching across the ground instead of towards the sky.
And I was crying and being with her in my grief, and I just started to listen and get really quiet. And all of a sudden I heard her heartbeat, just her heartbeat. And I got the message to just stay and listen to the heartbeat and know that she is still alive.
Stephen: Have you experienced an encounter with a tree or a wild being, or a particular place that felt sacred? Maybe it's an everyday occurrence or something more mystical. Did it occur to you that you may have been entangled in a holy conversation? If you have such a story, please record a voice memo on your phone in a quiet space with the microphone about six inches from your face while speaking softly.
If you're comfortable, share your name and where on earth you're speaking from. Please keep it no longer than five minutes and email the voice memo as an attachment to hello@wildspirituality.earth, putting sacred conversation in the subject line. We'd love to share your voice and your story in sacred conversation.
This has been another episode of the Holy Wild. For more information about the movement to restore sacred relationship with Earth, visit wildspirituality.earth and please subscribe to the podcast, leave a review and share this episode with someone you know who is hearing the call of the Holy Wild. Music by Alec, Slater, and Sandy from Inside the Silo at the Farm. Produced by Stephen Henning at Highline Sounds, and hosted by Victoria Loorz.