Project Hail Mary Part 2 - Andy Weir - Science Fiction Book - Apocalyptic Fiction Book

On this second episode takeover, Spenser is back to lead us through a favorite book of his, Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir.

Chapters

 (00:00) Introduction to SideQuest Podcast
 (00:38) Overview of Project Hail Mary
 (01:51) Character Analysis: Rylan Grace and Captain Rocky
 (06:10) The Role of Humor and Audiobooks
 (07:59) Author Background: Andy Weir
 (08:49) Character Dynamics and Relationships
 (11:21) The Ship as a Character
 (12:24) Themes of Ingenuity and Problem Solving
 (18:15) Personal Reflections on Problem Solving
 (24:32) Naming Conventions and Cultural Significance
 (27:27) Friendship and Cooperation in Crisis
 (27:41) Friends for the Road vs. Friends for Life
 (36:00) The Role of Duty and Sacrifice
 (47:54) Character Growth and Personal Reflection
 (55:40) Final Thoughts and Ratings

Our new website: www.thesidequestpodcast.com

Our IG Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Our TikTok Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ | Music by HoliznaCC0v

Creators and Guests

Host

Jonathan

Host

Slava

What is The Side Quest Book Club Podcast?

Join Slava and Jonathan as they discuss the books they are reading. Explore world-building, characters, and story development—and share some laughs along the way. Side Quest Book Club — a literary adventure podcast.

098 Project Hail Mary Part 2
===

Spenser: Welcome back everyone to this edition of my SideQuest Podcast Takeover. And we are currently reviewing Project Hail Mary. This is our second episode. Slava, why don't you give us maybe a little bit of an update, a review as to where we've been so far.

Slava: You got it. Spence. I'm also going to do a quick overview of the author. Put it all together. For this episode. Project hail Mary published in 2021. Is. American author, Andy Weir's third novel following the Martian and Artemis. And as we discussed in a previous episode, it is a true example of hard science fiction. Project hail Mary features.

We are characteristic combination of humor. Scientific accuracy and technical speculation. While also incorporating more. Elements of the genre. Notably it's depiction of human contact with extra terrestrial life.

the plot summary, and this is thanks again to our friends at super summary. In the near future junior high school teacher, Dr. Robin grace. He wakes up on the hail Mary and interstellar spaceship with total amnesia. The surviving member of a three person crew. Gradually graze begins to recall that his controversial academic work on extraterrestrials. Caused him to be drafted into project hail Mary. A mission to all few years away from earth. to save all of humanity. From Astro phage. Which is an alien life form.

That is eating away at the sun.

As the Astro phage causes solar dimming humanity. Has only 26 years before crop failure, famine and climate change. We'll reduce the population by more than half. And ultimately will cost total extinction. To save all of civilization. Grace must learn why tau SETI is unaffected by Astra phage. And send data back. To earth. I'm little probes. However, the hail Mary is on a sacrifice mission. As the ship can't carry enough fuel for a return trip. As the story unfolds and arrive first person tense. And alternates scenes from the past and present. Grace recalls discovering Astro phage. And prepping for project hail, Mary. As the missions lead scientist.

On his trip. He makes contact with an alien race, a friendly alien race. And. Another lone survivor. I'm his ship. Rocky. And they pair to travel to the planet. Adrian. Which is the other pole. In Taos settees. Betty's own patrol line. Of migrating Astro phage.

Jonathan: just one one quick correction for Slava. It's Captain Rocky Just,

it's Captain. Captain.

Slava: Right, right. Captain Rocky. So captain Rocky. Grace and captain Rocky. Work together. And through many successes and failures, they figure out.

Uh, predator. For Astro phage, something that can destroy Astro phage. they get enough of it. On their ships. And decide to. Part ways to go back and save. Their own respective planets. However one month into his journey. Grace realizes that the nitrogen resistant. Predator of Astro phage has also evolved the ability to pass through Xena night. That has a very strong element. On Rocky's whole planet.

And this is a side effect of being bred and Xena. Tonight tanks. Uh, gray snails that Rocky's field tanks are made completely obscene tonight. And Rocky's likely now stranded in space. Putting his entire species at risk again. Grace launches to hail Mary's four probes as originally intended. And turns back to rescue Rocky and take him. To arid Rocky's home planet. Knowing that he will starve when he runs out of food. A star contrast to how. Gray started where he did not want to die. Four. The sake of humanity. But anyway. Gray saves Rocky. Who refuses to allow grace to die? And suggests that they return to his planet. Years later, grace has happily established on Rockies planet. Teaching science to young Iranians. he's able to survive on Iridium made vitamin shakes and lab grown protein. Rocky visits grace to tell him that it really in scientists. Had determined that soul. Or at sun has recovered from the Astro phage infestation. Indicating that the probes returned to earth and project hail.

Mary was successful.

Man such a good book From start to finish, especially Rocky. And the ending I think was. was.

a decent ending.

Spenser: Yeah, great, uh, great synopsis there, Slava. yeah, like you mentioned, I, I also really, really love this book. And As I mentioned before, I read it twice within a year. and quick plug for the audiobook version. I do a lot of Audible. the narrator for that one does a great job. would definitely recommend that if you're into audiobooks.

Jonathan: You like him better than Nick Bodel, huh? Woof.

Spenser: I do, I do like him better than Nick Podell. I think, uh, This one is, I believe it's Ray Porter,

Jonathan: That sounds right.

Spenser: but, yeah, anyway, so very, very good, does a great job, and, uh, he just, he, he has that, um, he does, he does the sarcasm that Grace has, he does that well, so,

highly, highly recommend.

Jonathan: you like the panache that Ray Porter brings.

Spenser: Panache, that's a good word, I do.

Yeah, so a quick update on The author. His book, The Martian, did become a movie. And it

was a really

well done movie. And I felt like it stayed pretty

true to the book. what was interesting is that Andy Weir didn't really have a role in that production. He basically just sold the rights to the movie.

You know, to the, to the studio and then they produced the movie and he was like maybe a kind of a consultant, but in this one, he's actually going to be listed as a producer and he'll have a more active role in the film. yeah, so that's pretty cool. And. some more input into the creative direction in how things are, you know, translated onto screen, from the book.

Jonathan: when is that coming out?

Spenser: believe that is coming out in 2026. I don't know a specific time of year.

Jonathan: Probably comes out on captain Rocky's favorite holiday.

Spenser: yeah, yeah, for sure. What, what, what is Captain Rocky's favorite

holiday, Jonathan?

Jonathan: Moving on. Weren't you going to tell us about the author?

Spenser: just a refresher on who he is. He's um, he's a lifelong space nerd and devoted, devoted hobbyist of such subjects as relativistic physics, orbital mechanics, and the history of manned space flight. he started off his career as a, software engineer he writes a lot of code.

So, very cool to see, his background as a software engineer kind of translate into the, into the novel a little bit because we see Grace use, computers and technology to, uh, help advance his cause. So, cool little side note there about Weir. But, uh, but I wanted to talk about, uh, as we continue moving forward here in this episode, talk about characters, uh, maybe who our favorite character was, and, or if there is maybe a particular character that we related to more. Um, Jonathan, I'll let you, I'll hand this over to you to start off.

Jonathan: So these are the characters that I identified. Just a quick note, Slava, you spelled Strat wrong. Uh,

Slava: What in the Astro fader, you talking about.

Spenser: And everything

Jonathan: quick note for everyone. He spelled Strat right, but I removed one of the T's just so I could, just so I could say that. So the characters that I identified in the book were Rylan Grace, our main character, Captain Rocky, the one and

only Strat, who is guiding all of the earth items, and then the variety.

I lumped these

together, the flashback characters, but, here's the thing that stood out to me the most is that. The, the ship itself was a character and I, there's a story, Slava, what was that story by, um,

who wrote Fahrenheit 54, uh,

451?

it's not HG Wells. It's Montgomery or something

like that.

Slava: No, it was Ray Bradbury.

Jonathan: Ray Bradbury. Ray Bradbury wrote a story about a house that was alive. That, um, was its own character and it's always stood out to me. I think we read it in like 10th grade, but I'm always impressed when

the

author is able to turn,

an inanimate object into

a character.

one of the ways

that

not one, but like a few of the ways

that the ship becomes its own character, it's the first thing

that we meet, really, that is interacting with our protagonist.

It's central to the plot because he never leaves the ship, basically.

It interacts with the protagonist. it has a

personification where he's getting frustrated with It

It has a voice it's talking to

him. it's also this, uh, narrative device

to

help

move things forward and also the distributor of snackies. So,

It's a good

character. It's my favorite characters. the

ship second

to

captain Rocky.

Oh, Slava changed my note. It's not Sergeant Rocky. It's Captain Rocky.

That jerk, Captain Rocky. Uh, so yeah, my favorite character is Captain

Rocky. And don't ask me why he's just fun. Captain Rocky rocking around the universe. my second favorite

character is the ship and I'm sure that, uh,

Spencer and Slava have different favorite characters and things that they liked, but I really appreciated the fact

That this

ship was its own character,

Spenser: yeah, That's interesting, Jonathan, about the ship being its own character. That's something that I hadn't considered, so I'm glad that you pointed that

out. But yeah, he definitely did a great

job, um, weaving that into the

story as its own sort of, you know, character.

Jonathan: Yeah, he does it. pretty

flawlessly.

Spenser: mhm.

Jonathan: Who's your favorite character, Spencer?

Spenser: Oh man, I know you already picked Rocky, but I kind of want to go with Rocky. Um

Um

Jonathan: Just me and the ship, I guess,

Spenser: Just, just you and the ship, but I like Rocky's engineering mindset and his, determination to fix a problem when he sees it and to make it right, you know, similar to Grace, where Rocky sees an alien, uh, he's not, apprehensive, but he's willing to engage and kind of tying back into that theme of, cultural relativism.

Rocky is just as willing to engage as Grace. So, I just thought that was really well done. by Weir, and just seeing all the, like, the cool

ways that Rocky comes up with

to interact with Grace, I just thought it was so cool, so,

Slava, what about you? Is there, do you have a favorite character

Slava: Yeah, I have two. I liked Rocky and I like Strat. And Grace is fine. The other characters are great. I liked all of them. But if I was going to pick favorite favorite, it would be. Rocky, because he's just great. He's a very interesting character. To your point, that he's not really a scientist, but he's more of an engineer, and he's smart enough to grasp the complexities of human technology, even though, according to Grace, Iridian technologies, like something prior to the 1950s, if you compare it to Earth.

So his ingenuity, just the fact that he's such a fun character and Strat for the reasons I mentioned in the previous episode, she is very determined. I like how she is the foil to grace and her lack of sentimentality, I think is very necessary for the story.

And so that appeals to me. I like the way she handles things, except the one in the prison where she really oversteps it. But the rest of it, her determination, her pragmatism, is an excellent addition to this book.

Jonathan: I know during the week that we were reading it, you also really liked the, uh, the Russian comment.

Slava: Oh,

Jonathan: Russians were your favorite as Well,

Slava: Well, I like the Russian comment. and the comment was when one of the scientists does something very esoteric. She's, you know, doing, you know, Like, silly things. And Grace says to another Russian, Are all Russians crazy? And that Commandant says, Yes. In order for Russians to be happy, they have to be a little crazy.

that made me chuckle. I thought that was funny.

Jonathan: You did. You liked that a lot.

Slava: I did.

Spenser: Yeah, Slava, I think Strat was definitely, a great character for, for moving the plot along and definitely creates this tension of, you know, do something that is maybe morally wrong, but in order to

save humanity, you know, morally wrong, meaning, uh,

how she goes about,

handling the environment on earth and having to maybe create global warming in a sense in order 20 or 30 years.

Slava: right. She's very decisive. She's authoritarian, but she's decisive. She's unmoved by humor and sensitivity, the lack of sentimentality as I put it.

And her bravado, if you could call it that, is motivated by her fervent mission to save humanity. That's it.

That's her mission.

That's all she cares about.

Jonathan: She has a strong sense of humor. sacrifice And duty, woven into her

character's backbone

Spenser: Yeah,

absolutely. And I think. That is in contrast also to, to Grace's lack of backbone,

which we see a little bit later on near the end of the story where,

after,

one of his flashbacks, he, he,

comes to realize that he's a coward he wasn't ultimately able

to, lay down his own life,

you know, in putting himself on to the, the project Hail Mary mission.

And so Strat, you know, willing to do whatever is necessary, sedates him or drugs him basically. And it's like, you're, you're going on this mission. and if Strat didn't do that, you know, it's very likely that humanity would have,

suffered the consequences. So,

Jonathan: to never meet Captain to never meet Captain

Spenser: Rocky, and poor Rocky would have been stranded all alone in space, you know, until, until he died,

Jonathan: until radiation killed

Spenser: until radiation killed him.

But one of the other things that I see in this book, and that Grace really, exemplifies, is, Like once he is on the ship and before he has his flashback of realizing that he's a coward is he exemplifies ingenuity and problem solving and along with Rocky, you know, they, they discover ways to, breed.

This, tell me, but in order to act as a natural predator for the astrophage, grace's background as a scientist, in an educator really comes into play, uh, with this,

Jonathan: So on the ingenuity and the problem solving, he, he talks about evolution of things, and this is a, don't get me started, but I'm already started. So it just seemed a little convenient. That he was able to create an evolution of, or sorry, eight evolutions of the Talmibas in the course of a couple weeks. the evolution narrative is that evolution

takes time. So, why did it work so quickly?

this is a rhetorical question, you don't actually have to answer it.

Slava: Because it was controlled? Because it's not a real question, but it's a real question. What's lava?

Because it was a controlled environment.

Jonathan: No, it's still, that still doesn't, that still doesn't help. even if you had dinosaurs in a controlled environment and you were trying to get them to grow

feathers, like that still takes the

life of the entity and you can't speed that up.

Slava: Well, I've explained it a little bit. Because the Talamiba and the Astrophage, they multiply and advance faster than anything they've ever seen. And they controlled that hyper Evolution. They already have the ability to evolve quickly and Rocky and Grace controlled that and prompted it for lack of a better term.

So I think there's an answer to your, to your, uh,

Jonathan: It's

Slava: question. Of course it is because they're

smart and they're scientists.

Jonathan: Rocky's an engineer to your own, to your own words.

Slava: Potato, potato.

Jonathan: Uh, Slava's

got a morning beer. Nice.

Slava: It's actually a truly, but whatever.

Jonathan: I didn't know that you could only take the essence of beer. So

Spenser: So I have a question, uh, for either of you. in regards to like ingenuity and problem solving, is there, there a time, maybe in your life where you had to, there was a big problem and you had to use, you know, ingenuity and problem solving to overcome it? and maybe what did that look like?

Jonathan: we shouldn't talk about our current problems. Should I save that for my therapist?

Spenser: Yeah, that's probably, probably a good idea, Jonathan.

Jonathan: Okay. Okay. Just checking.

Yeah.

Just trying to be

authentic. heard them before. We've heard them before.

I'm going to start drinking like Slava in the mornings.

Slava: It helps. To quote Homer Simpson, to alcohol, the start and solution to all of man's problems. Yeah. Yeah. I can't think of anything even close to the scale

that Grace and Rocky

Jonathan: But that's

Spenser: Well, I don't think, I don't think anyone's ever going to have that kind of a scale.

Jonathan: Have you ever had to save humanity from itself?

The question was,

Slava: there was a

Jonathan: okay. Well, you didn't do a very good job because I was there.

You didn't do a very good job. Could have been better.

Slava: Everybody's a critic.

Jonathan: He just said, You know, any, any major problems that required you to have ingenuity

to solve in your life throughout, throughout the course of your, your,

very few 18 years on this planet.

Slava: I'm trying to think. And my quip about the scope Wasn't necessarily something that's analogous to saving humanity, but something that was maybe life altering or where my life was on the line, I can't think of anything despite some of the stuff I even shared in this podcast that was a tremendous hurdle to overcome. I can't think of anything where my life was in danger or if I didn't do X. Everything would be upended. we could go back to the issue I mentioned in 2014, New York, And my career kind of unfolding, but the ingenuity there was to start looking for jobs in other states And just taking.

Direct steps, like Strat would, without any sentiment or thought to how it would, affect the current thing that I'm in, but I gotta get to point B from point a and even if everything in point a burns to the ground in a heap of ashes, I have sincerely did not give a shit what happened. I knew that I had to get my wife out of the situation, out of New York. and we made concrete steps and got it done. That could be it. But fortunately the rest of my life, even with my family, even the stuff I mentioned with abuse, I can't think of anything, you know, That's comparable. I suppose having to learn defense mechanisms, both good and a little bit detrimental to my, to myself as a kid, to be able to survive the abuse and the, insane situation I was in, But that's about it. I can't think of anything else.

Jonathan, you jump in here and give us something.

Jonathan: I would

say my whole life has been problem solving.

I've mentioned in previous episodes about having a birth defect. There have been times where I've been deathly dehydrated and needed to go to the

hospital. There was times when I was in Israel I was starting to get super dehydrated and

needed to do something about

it. Uh, most of my life is, is

problem solving and ingenuity, not even

like colloquially, it just is because, uh,

when your body

doesn't absorb water correctly and our bodies need water

and we're 70 percent water or 80%, we're a large

majority water, don't science me. you don't have an option but to

constantly figure out what

survival looks like and, things you should do versus shouldn't do,

I can't eat certain things, cause I've been

hospitalized cause there've been, um,

gastric, blockages

due to

it

because, uh, back in

1988, They, when I was

born, they were still figuring the surgery out.

So I helped push science

forward, but, they don't do it this way anymore because it doesn't work. And, uh, so I'm one of the last test subjects that, uh, is stuck with this type of surgery. yeah, most of, my life is problem

solving. That's the, that's the broad

stroke version. similar to

Slava two with

like problem solving growing up and like figuring out how to emotionally regulate

yourself and process your emotions when no one has taught you how to do that I picked up journaling.

cause it's like, well, I don't want to sit with these feelings forever, but they're also preventing me from moving

forward. So I need to figure out how to process them. Therapy

wasn't a thing back then. It existed, but like,

people weren't doing it. People weren't sending their kids to it because it didn't look good. you know, you basically were assumed to be crazy. and then career stuff too, like Slava.

Like, I'm still looking for, work right, now. yeah, I mean, I think that

most of life is problem solving for people. Like no one, Not no one. Very few

people have parents who educate them correctly to properly engage with.

the world so that problem solving

is easier because they've been well equipped beforehand.

I think most people are fumbling around in the darkness trying to solve their problems or they're just not acknowledging

their problems and they're, they choose to just pursue comfort because it's easier. But they're

going to have a real rude wake

up call in 15 years when they have no savings, no retirement.

They're not married and don't have kids, which were goals of theirs. And, part of the problem solving that incur, that, occurs

today is that people need to acknowledge their problems. And, uh, and I don't think that they do that. Does that answer your question, Spencer?

Spenser: Absolutely. Thank you for, for sharing that, from both of you. Um, in Slava, you, you had shared a

quote with us. it said from Viktor Frankl, where he says, when a man

can't find a deep sense of meaning, they distract themselves with pleasure.

Slava: Yeah.

Spenser: and, because yeah, sometimes, you know, people aren't willing to put in the to make the changes necessary to grow and to

move forward.

I think for me, a situation that I had, required problem solving was, um, just trying to transition

careers and

still, still working on

that

still trying to, You know, problem solving, figure out the things that I need to do

in order to move forward. and it is a real challenge

and you know, I've definitely not been perfect at it, but it was kind of

nice to see that character growth

through.

Grace and seeing how he adapted to that situation that he was put in, in order to overcome a huge, huge problem. So, yeah, I just really, really

liked this theme of ingenuity and problem solving. So yeah, last time we talked a little bit about, uh, naming conventions and how we're establishes that, but for Rocky things are a little bit different

naming things in his culture, um, doesn't hold a significance, like it does in ours. Slava, I was wondering if maybe you wanted to talk a little bit about

that

Slava: yeah. I can touch on it a bit. When Rocky mentions or questions Grace, why, why do humans name things? Because even his ship, Rocky's ship is just. Ship, it's called ship and grace explaining this to Rocky. He tries to align the act of naming with both scientific tradition and human instinct. So names in project Mary are given specific or maybe special significance as innate elements of human behavior.

And it's related to human curiosity and the drive to explore. Grace also gives an example where if you discover something, you get to name it. And then Rocky participates in this tradition, if you will, by naming the planet after his, uh, partner, wife, whatever, right? So the Adrian. And that's what Grace gave the name to it.

And then he, Rocky says, okay, so this is, uh, Musical note, whatever it is in Rocky's language for my partner. Grace says, okay, Adrian, we're going to call a great Adrian!

Cause that goes through the humor part where Grace names it after, you know, Solace's Talon and his character in the movie Rocky. I thought that was another little, uh, interesting quip that we're.

Jonathan: Adrian!

Slava: Sneaks in, yeah, it's, it's a very small point that I'm making here. It's not very extensive, but it's still stood out to me as something important. Given the conversation about it, that we are in Rocky have.

Spenser: Yeah, absolutely. And, um, you know, I really like the, the friendship and cooperation that Rocky and, that Grace established with each other. I think it highlights the importance of working together to, to achieve, you know, some common goals, obviously in this case, trying to save both of their planets.

Um, but I wonder if either of you guys have had. Any short term, like passing friendships, that were meaningful to you. obviously Grace did end up living on Rocky's planet, but he didn't have any intention of, of staying there. at the moment it was just, him and Rocky, working together for a short amount of time and then, and then moving on.

So, so I'm curious if you guys have, have had any sort of. Or had a passing friendship that meant a lot to you. And Jonathan, why don't you maybe go ahead and take this one? Heh

Jonathan: in the class, they categorize two different types of friendships throughout our lives. There's friends for the road and friends for now. And so the question you're asking is about like friends for now. or was it actually, was it friends for the road and friends for life?

I think it was the second one, friends for the road and friends for life. Friends for the road is where you have friends for a certain period of the, of the journey that we're on here. And then friends for life are the people that you can call

up,

And you just go, Hey, we haven't talked

in, you know, blah, blah, blah, time.

And you just pick up

where you left off. Slava and I've talked about this a little bit in our friendship over the years

and similar to some of the people we grew up with, where, you

know, if either one of us called them, they'd be like, Hey, haven't talked to you in a while.

Like what's going on?

Because, um, just the community that we were, we were part

of, So as for

my friends

from the road, there was a guy back in the day

who, it was just meaningful because I didn't have a lot of money at the time. And he, he did me. There's actually a few of these people. He did me a charity and, uh, let me live with him

for

basically nothing.

It was a hundred

bucks a month. it ended up being, An

unhealthy living situation

because he was a

little emotionally unstable. But, for the time being,

it's what I

needed And he helped me out. So, definitely grateful

for that. Hope he's doing well, but, eventually I needed to leave because I was just like, yeah, I

can't put up with this every, X amount of time happening over and over and over again of you

just blowing up and not listening to stuff that I've said in the past about boundaries and, So there have been people along the way

that, have been, I guess this is going to sound bad, but like utilitarian wise, like they've been useful for my

life, but they just didn't stick around for a variety of reasons.

Or they tried to cultivate relationship again with me after

time. And Uh, there was just stuff that threw me

off. I think that's another thing

that people don't discuss

regularly is like someone who tries to come back in and then you're like, something doesn't feel right about that. And you just go, eh, I don't want

to spend time with this

person.

there was a guy from high school we'd got together after a long period of

time and he was

doing like some Dave Ramsey stuff and getting his, his finances together. And he's

like, we can't hang out again

until you sell your car. Cause my car had some debt on it. Didn't feel right about it, I chose not to hang out with him again after that, but like later I

realized, Oh. You trying to control my

life don't like

that. So I unconsciously made

distance. So I think it's both right. There's friends for the road

and then there's friends for the road who want to be friends for

life, but sometimes they try and come back in and something doesn't strike you

right.

And

so you go, eh, you know, that's not for me anymore. And it's a bummer. and you keep up with them on social, usually just to be like, yeah, I mean, you want the well for their family

and stuff

like neither of these people are enemies, but, uh, there's just things where it's like, man, it doesn't mesh with where

I'm trying to

go. so

that's my, uh, my little quip about friendships, lava. You can now talk about me

and our friendship.

Slava: Yeah, I know this guy. who's a real pain in the ass, but I love him. And so we've been friends for a couple of decades. No, uh, I'm kidding. We're not friends. Uh, I'm kidding about that too. Friends for the road. I've had numerous friends for the road through. Younger years, fourth, fifth, sixth grade. in high school, there was one guy, that sticks out. He was a really good friend. Middle school through high school was a very difficult time for me.

Jonathan: Same.

Slava: the usual high school and middle school bully stuff, although high school, I didn't have any bullies, but the insanity and the dysfunction at home made me a very disjointed, scared, constantly in survival mode.

But during the same time, this kid and one of his friends became my friend, and then there was a girl that I worked with The three of them were really friends for The road, we always had lunch together. We hung out during, periods that we had to catch up on homework and to do extracurricular activities, whatever the high school had a really good program, uh, we never hung out outside of school, we never called each other on the phone, but during school hours.

Especially every lunch hour, we would hang out and he was just a good friend to me. maybe he saw that I Was kind of lonely and upset and going through stuff. And he just wanted to be a, a good friend, a good person to me. Cause he was a very devout Catholic. So maybe there, uh, there was a religious impetus there, whatever it was. he was a good friend to me, and I've had a few of those in my life, and the recent one, I mentioned him in a podcast too, during my previous post, there was a lot of upheaval after COVID decimated our finances.

and certain people were brought in and they created more problems. They brought down morale. They created a lot of uh, infighting just by their poor leadership. and this guy and I became friends because of that. That friendship, which lasted for a bit after I found the new job that I'm currently at, it lasted for a bit, but then it just fell apart, soon after our conversations, our texts became fewer and fewer and fewer.

And then he just stopped responding and I'm not one to, chase anybody around and beg them to be my friend. So I said, all right, I'll stop texting him. And it's been two, almost two years, I haven't heard from him. But my view of friendship, and this goes back to, and I'll end with this, what, Jonathan mentioned about the community and the people we grew up with.

Some of those folks were friends for the road. Just like this guy Those folks, a good 90 percent of them, they were fun to hang out. It was great. Everything went well. We're all together, you know, in this community.

But what I found out as I was growing as a person and I was maturing, and unfortunately I didn't articulate this well to them, people around me, or I didn't process it in a way that was maybe the best way. But now looking back on. it, those Relationships were very superficial and very one sided.

And I was just not mature enough, unfortunately, to just break it off and say, okay, we're done. this doesn't have to be a thing because never during that time or before now, as more mature in this area, did I ever want like a bosom buddy or a best friend for life I wasn't looking for anything beyond what I wanted.

What could be possible to Jonathan second point forcing something that isn't there and the other guy gonna I just want to be a buddy I don't want to be your you know, best bud for life I never wanted that from any of them and I just wanted some reciprocity but that aside there's been numerous people that have been friends for the road and I think that's important because even the, the people I just mentioned where I felt it was just superficial and one sided in the moment.

It served its purpose. If I can be a strat for a second here, it served its purpose and that's fine. And I needed it and God used it and all as well, My life has been filled with more French for the road than French for life. But those people are necessary, irrespective of whether or not they turn out to be douchebags. They are necessary for human survival, for humans to function, whatever the situation may be. maybe you're having a great time, and just a buddy in college, and you, You get married or not married, you go your separate ways and you just have fond memories.

I've had friends like that and then I've had friends that I don't have fond memories of. But in the moment, you kind of helped each other or they helped you more than they can imagine or vice

versa. That's my take on it.

Jonathan: What about you, Spence?

Spenser: Yeah, I feel like I can relate to that a little bit, Slava. I've definitely I feel like I've had more friends for the road throughout my life. And not necessarily intentionally. I think sometimes it's just It's just the way things happen to work out.

But, uh, one, one that kind of stands out to me, uh, was, um, funny, you mentioned having a buddy in college that was, um, I had had a buddy in college we were roommates didn't know each other beforehand. got to know each other pretty well. We did a lot of stuff together.

he was someone that kind of really helped me, get through, get through my, my, my. I call it fake college experience. That's a whole nother story. but like he w he was someone that helped me like through that time. And I think looking back on it now, I realized that, but at the time I didn't, didn't see it.

I am grateful to have had the experience of, you know, meeting him and, and just having our time together. And ultimately we, we ended up going our separate ways. but but that was one of those instances where I just, I needed a friend for the road and, you know, and he was there at the time.

And so, so I'm grateful to have had that friendship but as we kind of maybe sort of get back to the book a little bit here, I just want to talk about anything that stood out to you guys, in the story. So whether this is, like a character or maybe there's a certain scene that happened, or a question maybe that, popped up in your head about the book.

What was kind of like one, main thing that stood out to you? Uh, and maybe Jonathan, you can take this question first.

Jonathan: Something that stuck out to me was the theme of duty in this book and sacrifice. because it's so lacking in the Western world here to feel a duty. Not even just

like a military duty, because I think a lot of people presume that that's what duty is It's like, well, you have to serve your country. you have to join the military.

It's like,

well, you can serve

your country. and you can serve the people in your community and you can serve like there's more than that. duty is, multifaceted, multilayered duty is first to yourself and your family, and then it's to your community and then it's to your country.

But, we have become so individualistic today that it's really just a free for all. It's every man for himself. we see this a lot. To tie in the friendship thing. It's like, how many close friends do each of us really have, right? Like people that, you know, are, are, as they say, ride or die, they're not going anywhere. this is the society we've built. And I think it's awful.

And part of the reason that it is that way is because we don't have this sense of duty where you can trust your neighbor to do something people are so. Uh,

they, they've become able to find joy

in, simply tearing down or reporting on their neighbor, whether it was during COVID

or during, um, you know,

hey, they, the HOA, they didn't cut their, grass, you know, their, their house is falling apart as opposed to like, hey, we as a community, the reason their house is falling apart is because

their mom got cancer and they have to

work their job and then go take. care of her. They're doing the duty for

their family. And so they can't do the duty to their neighborhood

because we all only have 24 hours a day. And it just reminded me that that's not the world that I want to live in. and so I try to retain my duty, to my family and, Responsibilities that I have. if duty seems like a weird word to you, another way you could say it is your responsibility it's not just responsibility you choose, it's also responsibility that is chosen for you, similar to grace in the book.

I like that this coward was forced. to participate in duty for a species that he is a part of against his will because he was the best suited. It still sucks to be the sacrificial

lamb. That's what duty does is it lays itself down. most other cultures have a form of duty, Japanese culture, samurai culture, honor culture,

duty is a huge part of that. Uh, you can look at other cultures throughout the world where duty, it looks different sometimes, but it

is there it's, it's present in most other cultures and we have since stripped it because everyone wants to be an individual and frankly, that's why we're all suffering.

That was a heavier than I thought it was going to be, but, um, Slava, what about you?

Slava: I have three quotes that I want to look at. That's the best way I can answer your question, Spencer. So one is from chapter six. Grace is talking to Stratt, and he says science and morality both give the same answer here. and you know it. and this is in relation to using only coma resistant crew members.

I think this quote indicates that Grace, at heart, is unwilling to privilege either science or morality over the other. and he prioritizes solutions that are both ethically sound And scientifically promising.

Because some of the quotes I read, in the Book where they were like talking about evolution and they were talking about evolution from a strictly materialistic point of view. And I think you can't have morality in that kind of a world. if nothing immaterial exists, then the math you're doing to fly to Tel Cedi is irrelevant, right?

You can't talk about morality, you can't talk about right and wrong in a strictly materialistic way. worldview. So I really enjoyed this about Grace, because despite him being a scientist, and a committed scientist, I don't want to get into a religious discussion, but based on what I understand from the book uh, non religious, even if he is slightly religious, he puts no stock in it, apart from it being good.

And this is me, Definitely reading into it. This is my assumption of the character, but I found that really cool where there is this juxtaposition of, yes, we have to save humanity. Science will help us do it, but how we get there. also matters. And that's the juxtaposition, the foil strat versus grace. I enjoyed that a lot.

the second one is also from chapter six, and I think it's part of the same conversation. Grace says, human beings are amazing things. We can get used to just about anything. And when I was reading that, what I was reminded of is the Holocaust and Wiesel and Frenkel, Elie Wiesel and Viktor Frenkel, how they both went through horrific things, adjusted and adapted, got used to their current situation, survived it, were both duty bound, and then came out of it and made their life about helping humans as a whole. They weren't just individualistic or utilitarian in their survival. They made sure that the experiences they had And what they learned from them was somehow beneficial to others. And then the final one is chapter 14. Sometimes the, stuff we all hate ends up being the only way to, do things. It's another grace quote.

And to me that just says that life is messy. Rarely does it work out like anything you want or imagine. As a guy, Who pretty much flushed down my twenties down the toilet by not doing anything, you know, playing around party and I had a good life. Nothing was horrible is going on, but I wasn't taking anything seriously and then going to. seminary for eight years, preparing myself for an academic career, all that blowing up in 2014, having to. change, midstream And go somewhere else. and somebody that has built the career that I have for the last now 10 years or so, yeah, 10 years, uh, having built that career and being very successful at It and being glad even for all the shit that's happened, being glad because that has formed me and helped me mature.

I. Saw that quote that discussion that grace is having as just proof that life is messy is referencing his hatred for the Project Hail Mary staff meetings in this, moment, foreshadow the morally complicated tactic that Strat forces everyone to be complicit in. as Grace is thinking on this, reflecting, he understands that nothing is perfect. Is so rigid as maybe he thinks, and maybe I'm reading into it, but I thought that quote was another grace quote that Was phenomenal.

It stood out to me and it shows that life is messy and that goes to him maturing, goes to his character arc, where even after he realizes he was a coward at the end, when he sacrifices himself for Rocky. and then has to live on a foreign planet, an alien planet in a special habitat because you'll die.

Otherwise, he can reflect on it? in the last few paragraphs of the book. He can reflect on his life and say, Hey, despite all these things, and I'm putting words in his mouth. He didn't say it. this way, but despite all these things, I have lived a fulfilling life. And my life now has meaning outside of getting some sort of superficial high from my kids liking me.

I've accomplished something and it's connected back to what, I was writing papers on. So there's almost this redemption

to his life too.

Jonathan: Can you read that quote one more time for us?

Slava: Sometimes the stuff we hate ends up being the only way to do things.

Jonathan: I read books to find quotes like this.

Slava: a good quote.

Spence, why don't you give us some of your reflections on the book. Anything that stood out to you, maybe if it's a little bit heavier, a little bit lighter, whatever it is, what are some things that stood out to you and stuck with you? That's a better one, uh, after you read the book,

Spenser: yeah, I think, uh, on a similar, similar vein as to what you were saying, Slava, about Grayson, his, his character growth, I think that kind of really stood out to me because, we see him acknowledge that he's a coward near the end of the book. when he finally realizes that he was there against his will.

But what I thought was cool is, he doesn't continue thinking of himself as a coward. Like, he adapts, he, he changes, and, You know, his primary feeling upon remembering Strat's violation of his free will is, is not anger, but it's disgust with himself, I just thought that was a really, really cool character growth because I think when we are presented with, choices or situations in our own lives where we have to confront something negative about ourselves, it's often very much changed.

And we, we want to be like, Oh, no, that's not me. I'm not that way. and we refuse to, to grow and to learn from our, from our mistakes or from our old, character traits. I feel like I had a similar moment of realization, I guess it'd be last fall when I attempted, well, I'm still attempting to change careers.

I just had this moment of realization where I'm like, Oh, I am more of a lazy person than I thought I was. You know, I haven't, there wasn't anything that had, had really challenged me in, in quite a long time. And this really did. And it really forced me to evaluate, what I want out of life and what I'm willing to do to go, to go and get it.

And, still, trying to grow into that. but having, but seeing grace, learn and grow and being able to choose the option of growth and say, oh, I was a coward, But I'm here now and I have an opportunity to save another people, a whole nother civilization, and in leaning into that shows that he, acknowledged his cowardice, and then chose to do something about it by saving another people group, or civilization in this case, so, That, that really stuck with me from this, from this book.

Jonathan: Deep stuff from Spencer on his side quest takeover.

Spenser: Absolutely. Yeah, definitely. This book definitely brought out, uh, in, in doing research for this episode, definitely brought out some things that I didn't think we would get into, but it's been a pleasant, pleasant surprise and glad we were able to talk about these things.

Jonathan: It's fun running a podcast. Isn't it

Spenser: Indeed, Indeed, It, uh, it is more exciting than I thought it would be.

Not going to lie

Jonathan: just a humdrum Saturday with the boys

Slava: Matt, eat your heart out,

Spenser: Yeah, Matt, you got a lot of work to do to catch up here, so gotta throw that at him.

Jonathan: might as well.

Spenser: yeah, so great, great stuff, guys. as we start to kind of get near the end of the episode here, what are some hot takes that you guys might have about the book?

Slava: takes

Jonathan: So hot. They all got burned up.

Spenser: Or we don't have to do this section if you don't want to.

Jonathan: Oh, we'll find some

Spenser: Alright.

Slava: think on it.

Jonathan: Slava. What do what you did with, uh, with Kvothe about ruining,

ruining his life. Ruined, ruined his, ruined Strat's life and ruined Grace's life. Go.

Slava: I'll ruin Captain Rocky's life.

They get, oh.

Spenser: uh, oh. Well,

Slava: is with, uh, some other spider dog

with like, Ten offspring

Jonathan: You're

an anti romantic.

Slava: and then, Rocky and Grace have to live in the same habitat, like an odd couple, always at each other's throats.

Jonathan: Happy Saturday to us. I want to know, my hot take is,

Who who hurt Strat,

and, and, and why was she an orphan? Here's the thing, I can answer that question. I just have to read the book again. It's pretty clear in all of her actions, I think. Individualism.

I also want to know why those two scientists that were with him died. I mean, narratively it makes sense, but, I want the real reason. Give me the science behind it with this science

book. That's my hot take. Tell me more about these two scientists who were clearly healthy enough to go, and then just like, nope, they died on

the way out.

Slava: Maybe Skynet, or where the robot was the AI that was keeping them alive, messed up.

Jonathan: Maybe Strat actually was just trying to prove a point.

Slava: That's a, now that's a

hot take.

Spenser: that's a,

Slava: I'll take that.

Spenser: that's a huge gamble on her part,

if that's the case.

Jonathan: She knows she's gonna be put in prison afterward anyway, so whatever.

Slava: I'll join you in that hot take. Strat killed the two scientists to prove a point because she's that vindictive.

Ha.

Jonathan: Spence, what's your

Spenser: Wow, great, great, great stuff, guys.

I don't know if this is so much as a hot take, uh, or maybe it's more my personal, uh, experience. Like wants for grace, but I think he should have ended up back on earth at some point. but I know like It was kind of part of his character growth to be able to go to to air it and be a teacher Um, I think it's it's cool.

Um, but I think I would have preferred him to end up back on earth

Jonathan: Well, I think the book ends where they are like on the cusp of maybe going out

to adventure again? I mean, he's old. And also, remind me, what is he eating while he's there?

Spenser: himself, yep

Slava: They're cloning his meat, and

he's eating

Jonathan: right. Cannibalism. Cannibalism. Yeah, that doesn't actually check out. That's another hot take I have.

Spenser: I did not like that

part

Jonathan: if you look at, homicide stuff or like where people killed someone and ate them, it actually like feeds into helping people go mad.

Spenser: I have heard that I think don't they explore that a little bit in the there's a movie the book of eli I

think You Um,

Jonathan: I don't remember that?

Yeah, I've seen it, but I don't remember that.

Slava: Yeah, I

Spenser: okay.

Slava: cannibalism.

Spenser: Uh, okay. Well, I thought there was a I have to get a Ice Cold Takes with Spencer.

I thought they had emphasized that point because there's a There's a spot where they The main character encounters a I think it's a couple who is, um They're cannibals, but they're going mad because they keep eating human meat.

But, anyway.

Jonathan: Probably, also not a very reliable source because Hollywood.

Spenser: Fair point.

Heh heh. Heh heh.

Jonathan: hot take is about a different story. Good hot take,

Slava: I think, uh, Book of Eli cannibalism. Uh, let's see here. Book of Eli Oh yes, realizing that George and Martha are cannibals, Eli and Solera attempt to leave just as Carnegie and his men arrive. And then there's an ensuing shootout. Yep, there's cannibalism in the Book of Eli. Good job, Spencer.

Spenser: Thank you. Thank you. So if you guys had to rate this on a scale of 1

to 5, if you're trying to sell this book to someone, how would you rate this

Slava: Five stars. Across. Plot, story, world. Five stars. And if They don't want to read it I'll sedate them in.

Lock them in a basement with this book.

Jonathan: They can't read it if they're sedated.

Slava: they will wake up only a book will be there. Every time they read a page, they'll get some

food. Too

Jonathan: Strat.

Slava: Too soon?

Jonathan: down, Strat.

Calm down. I'd give it a full constellation. Five stars. World, character, plot. All around, very cohesive story, very engaging. If I was going to sell this to somebody and tell them to give it a read. You don't know how engaging one person alone with a mission can be until you read this book.

Spenser: Yeah, great stuff. I totally agree. I would definitely give it five stars across the board. When I first went into this book, I had read The Martian and enjoyed it, but was a little bit skeptical because of like, well, isn't this just kind of another, you know, guy on his own trying to save, either himself planet. So I was like, how, how different is it really gonna be from the Martian? And I was very pleasantly surprised and was definitely hooked, right off the get go as Grace was trying to figure out who, who he was and what his mission was. world building, character building, really good.

definitely got to see a lot of, um. a lot of in depth look a few characters, which is really nice. So, yeah, overall, five stars for me as well.

And five stars on the audiobook.

Slava: Oh, heck yeah.

Spenser: Throw that little plug in

there. yeah,

Slava: Especially when they made Captain Rocky's musical notes. They added that in the,

yeah. that was great.

Spenser: I thought that was really clever how they did that for the audiobook. I

enjoyed that.

Slava: characters Cyrillic characters. So for the audio, how do you do that?

I think the, the little musical notes are great, but I want to, I want to add on a sour note. I really can't stand When narrators can't take Five seconds to figure out how to pronounce Russian words.

When they're pronouncing French words or Spanish words, God forbid they mispronounce Spanish word. They're not going to say tortilla if they're reading about tortillas. None of these bastards can just listen to a Russian speaker. And figure out the accents and the syllables. They sound like illiterate buffoons.

It pisses me off. When Hollywood does this, when books have done this, I'm reading a new book by Keanu Reeves and Chyna Mayville, which maybe we'll get to on this podcast too, but there's a Russian word that's mentioned in it? And I'm like, how can you just not take five extra seconds? Like you would do for any other language and learn how to pronounce this in Russian. Anyway,

that's it. Five stars anyway.

Jonathan: Five stars on the book you're

reading.

Slava: No, Five stars on this.

Jonathan: Oh, okay. Just clarifying.

Just clarifying.

Spenser: All right. Well, thanks guys for for your ratings and Thank you everyone for joining us today on this sidequest takeover edition Join us next time as the guys take on another epic side quest

Jonathan: And before we go, take a moment and rate the show on your favorite podcast platform and share this episode with a book loving friend. See you next time on SideQuest.

Slava: boopity boop.