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Testing your ideas against reality can be challenging. Not everything will go as planned. Itβs about keeping an open mind, having a clear hypothesis and running multiple tests to see if you have enough directional evidence to keep going.
This is the How I Tested That Podcast, where David J Bland connects with entrepreneurs and innovators who had the courage to test their ideas with real people, in the market, with sometimes surprising results.
Join us as we explore the ups and downs of experimentation⦠together.
David J Bland (0:1.122)
Welcome to the podcast, Cathy.
Cathy Nesbitt (0:3.030)
Thank you so much, David. I'm excited to be here.
David J Bland (0:5.784)
I'm excited to have you. β think your background β in worm composting and just worms in general fascinated me. β I think maybe out of personal curiosity because I think, I don't know, I think it was about 10 years ago, my wife had tried some kind of worm composting thing and we found it was like, β it was really difficult. β It seemed like a straightforward process, β but we had a really hard time with it.
Cathy Nesbitt (0:31.018)
Mmm.
David J Bland (0:32.642)
And then β we started talking and I realized, you're an expert in this and I'm sure you had your ups and downs in your journey. And I would love for you to share some of that today, but maybe we could just start about β a bit about yourself for our listeners.
Cathy Nesbitt (0:45.302)
Yeah, so I'm located in Canada, just north of Toronto, β and in 2002 our landfill closed and we started to export our garbage to the U.S. That's kind of how my business was born.
because as well not because you don't know you just met me. β I'm an avid gardener and composter β and so I see as β I wasn't even an entrepreneur before doing what I'm doing. I just saw a problem our landfill closed and β we're exporting like food waste which is a resource we call it garbage but it isn't it's whatever we call it and if we call it garbage it is. β So what I'm talking about is indoor composting with worms. β Six million people in the greater Toronto area have
in condos, β townhouses, β without β space to do outdoor composting, β which has its own challenges in β urban settings. Raccoons or rodents, know things you don't want to attract out there. β Temperature, so there's all kinds of things. This is done inside β so everybody can do this. β And I love how you started because β
When we do something new, it's new. So sometimes there is a learning curve and a lot of people fail their first time at Fermi composting, me included. The first time I did it, was a teacher. Anyway, so there we go. that's β is that a good start? β
David J Bland (2:7.073)
Yeah, it's a great start. So it sounds like it was born out of a personal problem of, look, I don't want to send my quote unquote garbage β across international borders. And then also it's like, I imagine other people were also β suffering from this. So most β of the time we have people on podcast, they talk about, well, this is a personal problem for me. But then there were other people also experiencing this. And there were enough of them that would also be on board with the solution that you were creating. β
But I would love to know a little bit about β sort of what you started on, which is how did this first test go? β What led you to using worms? Anything that you could give us insights β about there.
Cathy Nesbitt (2:48.418)
Perfect. β it was all trial and error. I tested everything without knowing what I was doing. β As an accidental entrepreneur, I kind of fell into this because I saw a problem and I had a solution. And then I got into it at work. I was a social worker and I came home, there was an ad in the paper.
Do β you have a business idea? It was a β six month course to write a business plan. So I just kind of launched into it β and thought...
Gosh, this is so important. Everybody needs this. Everybody eats. Everybody creates food waste. And again, if we call it garbage, it is. we call it a resource, it is, which it is. It's food for something else. And so I took that course, started my business, and thought everybody needed what I had. But people don't buy what they need. They buy what they want. And they didn't want what I was vlogging. So I would have a table at trade shows or...
Wherever I could have a table, would have a table educating people. β And I'm β high energy, I'm animated, so it's probably fun to watch me when you're walking around at those boring information things. β It's like, what's this? Yay, who's this woman? Like one of those flagging, β know, waving balloons. β
And then I would say, this is indoor composting with worms added. I would explain the whole process. And you know, it's probably fascinating again to watch. And then it's like, well, what do I do in the winter β with the worms? It's like, no, it's indoor year round. Because if you're in a hot place, β it's too hot. β If you're in a cold place, too cold. The worms like temperature, like even temperature, room temperature. OK. β So β I.
Cathy Nesbitt (4:32.374)
People kept saying, worms in the house. I was like, how am I going to do this? I didn't know how business worked. And I just had a solution. So I was just like, I would kind of vomit all over people. That's how I tested it. I'd be like, β la, la, la. I was thinking, if you don't know, you're not doing. So I'll let everyone know. And then they can say no, β once they know. β
David J Bland (4:56.045)
Yeah, it's interesting. think maybe like, I don't know, coincidence, I guess, or a sign that you had that you saw that ad. I think for the folks that I've worked with early stage to try to write a business plan, I find it a very challenging experience because you're trying to project out.
what this is going to look like. And you really have no idea. And the people asking for this probably have no idea either. But I think what they're looking for, my hunch here, is the thought process behind it and not so much the actual numbers you put in, or at least that's what I hope is the experience. But what was that like for you trying to write, oh, I'm going to predict out what my business is going to look like when you're just getting started.
Cathy Nesbitt (5:37.344)
The sale, β as far as the sales forecasting, like the financials, that part was really challenging. The rest, writing like, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that, like writing β the plan was fairly easy. Remember, it was six months, so they would have β experts come in.
David J Bland (5:41.483)
Yeah, yeah.
Cathy Nesbitt (5:56.322)
β business entrepreneurs would come in and talk about β marketing or talk about bookkeeping or all those things. And then we did financials. That part was a challenge. It's like, how do we, like you said, how do we know what we're going to sell? Who are we going to sell to all those things? β But that was helpful having the course, definitely six months and having the peers in the program, which then you're kind of a mastermind networking group moving forward. β
David J Bland (6:22.664)
That's cool.
Cathy Nesbitt (6:22.720)
you know, you might get connected to a few people. β It was really trial and error, but because we had to β present our business plan and we had little masterminding brainstorming groups within that course, β it was very helpful. β And having the entrepreneurs come in and talk about mindset, when you're, if you're a solopreneur working from home, some days are hard, you get stuck, you got that proposal, you got that thing you gotta write, but you can't, you're blocked. β
Someone suggested that in that course like get out of your house go for a walk change the scenery And and that's what I do because I thought you're trying to force it and it's no you're blocked. You got to go free it up
David J Bland (7:4.576)
Yeah, I definitely have experienced that blocked feeling. think so it's interesting about your trade show experience because I have to say I've been on the other side of that sometimes. β And my trade show experience may be a little different from the normal β sort of attendee because I'm going around and literally like asking like, hey, what's your riskiest assumption? And what are you all testing? And they're sort of like, what are you asking me this for? β But I'm sort of coaching up people as I go to their booths. And I do remember, you know, there are certain booths I went to one in rural sort of Midwest and their whole thing was crickets.
Cathy Nesbitt (7:25.206)
Mmm.
David J Bland (7:34.463)
And they're like, hey, you want a cricket burger? And I was like, no, I'm good. And they're like, sure. And they're like, we can give you this packet of crickets. I was like, no, my carry-on's completely full. So I just imagine you have similar types of feedback where people don't, I some people tell you no, but other people are like, oh no, or maybe not right now. So how did you navigate that and what led you to sort of finding a way to communicate this where people, it started to resonate with people.
Cathy Nesbitt (7:38.454)
Hmm. β
Cathy Nesbitt (8:4.214)
I started to do school workshops. β I did a whole pivot. was like, how am I? Because when I started my business, I had this big vision of everybody eats, everybody creates food waste, everybody needs this. β
David J Bland (8:7.423)
Interesting.
Cathy Nesbitt (8:21.386)
I was like, worms in every house, worms in every classroom, not just one in a school as a project. Every business, every community center, wherever there's a blue bin, a recycling bin, there's a worm bin. You're eating your apple, where's the worm bin? Boom, in it goes. β Because it's so valuable, that's what I thought. I thought this was gonna be easy, and I β discounted the worm part.
And I too was afraid of worms. That's the whole funny part about this David is I was afraid of worms. β If we go back a bit when I bought my house, 93, I moved out of Toronto. I couldn't wait to start gardening and composting. β And in 93, a teacher friend asked me to look after her worm bin. For the summer she was going away and I was like, worms in the house. but I want the black gold.
And I took on the challenge. People will say, β gross, you won't like that. Good. Give me a list. What else won't I like? Right. Save me some time. No, you like try things. People test it out. β So that's what I did. I took on the challenge. I had worms in my basement. Gross. I had opened it up. I was a fruit fly farmer because I would open it up, throw the food in β and β yeah. And the fruit flies aren't any problem for if anyone's had fruit flies. And I know you have. β Everybody has. And you haven't had a worm.
you know the fruit flies don't come from the worm bin, they come from the food you're adding in. That's the first piece. β And fruit flies don't cause any problem for any disease for humans or pets. They just bug us because we call them bugs. β Doing their job. So they arrive on the fruit, so they're on the fruit.
there's things you can do. didn't know right away. I was like, throwing the food in that the worms were happy because the fruit flies are decomposers. So they were just breaking it down and everyone was happy except me. And then the end of the summer, I, I, know, I had to keep the worms alive. They were for my friend at the end of the summer. I got big gloves. I got a tarp, took it outside, dumped it out, put on big gloves. And I was like, ah, this is gross. I'm never doing this again. That's where I failed because
Cathy Nesbitt (10:24.062)
that I had the fruit flies and I was like nobody would continue doing that because there's no market for fruit flies like don't be a fruit fly farmer. β Right they die in a day or two they're hard to catch and nobody's buying them. β So that was my first experience β and β so I knew I knew how it was and yeah β it's so interesting so I start so was like how am I going to do this if everybody's afraid or
David J Bland (10:31.678)
You
Cathy Nesbitt (10:51.806)
has these preconceived notions about worms β and I started to do school workshops and thought β now I just need to wait 20 years for them to have buying power. β It's the 23rd anniversary. β I made it. β
David J Bland (11:2.944)
wow. So schools, so how did you approach schools? β I'm curious how you got started there, or where did the idea of schools come from?
Cathy Nesbitt (11:12.130)
Because my friend, guess it goes back to looking after my teacher friend's worm bin in 93. That was like, you can have worms in the school. And then through networking, somebody connected me to the whole list. I'm close to Toronto, the largest city in Canada. They have a pretty large school board. And then we have the French. So we have two school boards, in fact.
tons of schools, don't know hundreds, and I got the whole list and this was when we were using fax machines still so I would fax my marketing campaign to the schools, you know, hey you can do a worm workshop, you know, and it's hands-on, it's interactive, it connects directly to the curriculum, all subjects. I had a math teacher say, ah I'm a math teacher, I'm like, oh math? There's 800 to a thousand worms in a pound, they eat half their weight per day, they reduce the volume by 80 per
They have five hearts each. β What else would you like to know? It's all math. β
or an β English teacher, good, they can write stories about their experience. It fits every subject β and every, yeah, it's just beautiful. So that's how it started. And I'm animated, I'm interactive. When you're speaking, like when I speak to everyone, β whoever you speak to, they want you to be engaging. Kids need super high energy, which I am without those energy drinks. β
and then they get to be hands-on. So when I go into the schools, if they're getting a worm bin, and I really hope they do, otherwise it's just entertainment, right? You come in, you leave, they learn some stuff, but then they forget as soon as you go. If it's in the worm bin, and the best is when they start at the beginning of the school year, because then they get the whole year, maybe they get two set up to harvest. β
Cathy Nesbitt (13:4.340)
And so for those listening that are going, what the heck is happening? β It's up in the size of about a Rubbermaid tote or something that size. It's carbon and nitrogen. The carbon is your foods as your β newspaper, cardboard, drink trays, straw, that kind of material. And the nitrogen is your food scraps, your peels, banana peels, coffee grounds, tea bags, cooked cooked pasta and rice, etc. You add both of those in. β
β It's a certain special worm that you need. Red wigglers are the best. Could be European night crawlers in North America. Those are the two best for composting β and they're easily accessible in β the hotter states especially Texas, California, Georgia, β Florida. β And β yeah the worms again they eat half their weight so for easy math if you have a pound of worms, half a pound of food scraps per day, three to four pounds per week,
You're adding the scraps, the paper and the food. The worms are eating both and their poop is the black gold. You kind of feed them and leave them, but you bury the scraps so don't get fruit flies. You don't want a fruit fly β explosion in a school. So β management is required. Rinsing your scraps, letting the scraps decompose first and then β adding it in. It's a wonderful, not just science, but it really is a wonderful science project. β
The children can see that, like they add their banana peel in β and then β a month or two months later, wow, it's disappeared, it's turned into β soil that then they do grow a plant for Mother's Day, Father's Day, β birthdays. There's so many opportunities.
David J Bland (14:52.391)
I love that story. So you go into schools, you teach workshops, hopefully they're using a bin as well. And so just getting started, you you're going off and teaching these hoping for the best. And when was this moment where you felt like, this is this is working or what would happen after the workshop that would, you know, give you a sign that that there might be a business here?
Cathy Nesbitt (15:15.244)
Well, I β got paid for the workshops. And that's kind of interesting too. β
You know, things happen in your entrepreneur life. You meet somebody and they say something. β In my very first year as a entrepreneur, I'm selling my bins. get an β email from a woman. She lives in a co-op in Toronto β and she was hosting somebody to come in and speak about their front yard garden. You know, β what is it? Food, not lawns or whatever it is. So to grow food instead of grass β or you could grow the different kind of grass, but anyway. β
β And she said, I wonder if you want it to come down. She wanted to order a worm bin. And so she was ordering a worm bin. That's right. So she was ordering a worm bin. Then she said, hey, I have a speaker coming in. When you bring the worm bin, how would you like to do a talk on the worms? I bet the other condo dwellers would be interested. So I said, β I would love that. So I get down there and I'm. β When β I got down there, she said, I was disappointed that you didn't say you charged for speaking.
and I said right isn't it I said β well you were buying a worm bin I thought that was payment enough huh β how small right whoops and she said the more you get paid the more you're worth and I thought in my mind pusha this is so important you need like people need this β like that's you know anyway it's so interesting okay so that was β
David J Bland (16:21.557)
interesting.
Cathy Nesbitt (16:50.962)
That was at the beginning of my business that same year the very first year of my business. That was such a huge gift David It was so big β that year in April. So I do worms in the right. It's very environmental my business β April for Earth Day that year a Brownie group in my town invited me to come and do a short talk for the girls. Hmm. I Didn't charge. I'm like it's in my town. It's Earth Day this no, I don't need to charge. This is so great
Who am I? What the heck? What am I going to eat the worm poo? β Now, like looking back, it's like, wow, missed opportunity, but it's okay. It's all learning, test, trial and error. β I thought I would get business from that because I'm coming to educate and then they're to be like, my gosh, everybody needs this. That's what I thought. β Okay. So I go to this, it's down in the church basement. I don't travel late. I schlep all my stuff down. have all these props.
Okay, so I start doing my thing. Nobody helped me, by the way. Okay, I schlepped down by myself. So I start doing my gig and some of the girls were talking and nobody was shooting them. So I had to be the heavy, not only am I the speaker, now I'm the heavy too. I'm like, hey, β excuse me, I'm talking here. Okay, they stopped talking. I'm not even finished my talk and one of the β guides takes β the broom and starts sweeping up because it's coming time to go. I'm like, β
How rude, I'm not even finished. Wow. Okay, I finished my talk. The parents come down to get their β children. They go up. I schlep all my stuff up by myself. That woman's words were echoing in my head. What you get paid is what you're worth. And I was like, β I'm worse than garbage. I'm speaking in the basement. β It was really, I was like, bing.
Okay, that's it. I'm charging more for my talks at schools. I doubled my rate for speaking at schools and my bookings doubled or tripled. I got more bookings. It's perceived value. I know you know this.
David J Bland (18:50.826)
It's yeah, we often talk. Well, they're like ill of the words, right? So we talk desirability, which is sort of what's the desire there? What's the risk around people having a job to be done or an unmet need or something that they want? What, know, you're actually offering. And then we talk about viability, which is a lot what you're talking about, which is what are the financial risks around here? Like how much does this cost for me to do? And then what are the willingness to pay and how much people pay? And then we talk feasibility, which is more like.
Can I do this? β And so for you, it feels as if you're figuring out the feasibility. So you're figuring out how to put the fruit down at the bottom so the fruit flies don't get out, how to keep them at a certain temperature, how to manage them and all that, which is kind of a niche skill, which I imagine not a lot of people know how to do. And then β the desirability of the output was certainly there. Now there were some sort of barriers with the worms. People didn't.
Cathy Nesbitt (19:42.624)
You β
David J Bland (19:43.167)
Not everybody was on board with the worms, but they're on board with the output of the worms. β And then β viability is, can I actually keep this going? β Is this something that's actually gonna keep going? Because β it could be something you enjoy doing, but it's more like a hobby than necessarily a business. β And I wanna be very, very careful about how I say that because not every hobby should be a business. I think we're in this crazy hustle culture now where everyone thinks they have to monetize all their hobbies. I don't think that's the case.
Cathy Nesbitt (20:9.078)
Mm. β Mm.
David J Bland (20:12.776)
But in your case, β this is something you saw for a business opportunity β and being paid for what you're worth is your directly β you hit the point, you know, it's basically this perceived value and not everyone has the knowledge you have because they haven't been going through all the experiences you have. β so you go through and you're trying this out in different places. You get to schools, they're they're paying for your workshops β and you're doubling and tripling your rate sometimes and β still getting more work. And so
Tell me a little bit about like your business model. You don't have to name prices or anything, but is this, know, hey, I sell these containers. I sell accessories around the containers. I sell my knowledge. Tell me like how you evolve that over time a bit.
Cathy Nesbitt (20:59.490)
I was a juggler. I had a whole whack of offerings. I would sell worms by the pound for the do-it-yourselfers, complete kits. then I was approached by an engine. Well, actually my first year again, somebody contacted me to order 50 pounds of worms. 50 pounds. And I did a happy dance that day. I was like, oh my gosh, I have a business. This is so great. And I didn't know how to ship 50 pounds of worms. So I drove them.
three hours β one way β right β so much for the profit it's all right β again a big learning right so I drive them there β and he was a plastic manufacturer β and I was like that's interesting and it didn't occur to me anything else β a couple months later he gets in touch with me and said I have this β layered β tower worm composter would you want to try it out and potentially carry it β
David J Bland (21:30.837)
wow.
Cathy Nesbitt (21:59.072)
So a lot of things β seemed to be happenstance for me. I wasn't necessarily searching for things, but I was open to opportunities. β And so I said, yes, of course. β And so it's called the Worm Chalet. It's a beautiful system. It's out of production now, but it's a beautiful system. β And the town was in London, and so London is en route from Toronto to Michigan. London's there. β So I would speak. β So I took up speaking. That's kind of my model. asked, β I have no fear of public speaking. People do. β And I didn't. So I was like, this people need to know. They don't know about this. So I'm the one that's going to be the knowledge bringer for this. β And I got speaking opportunities at conferences because I would apply. β
and then Hort Societies and then companies are hiring me to consult β on how to manage their organic waste at the office. So they're saving money on waste management. β It's really I had no interest in managing people. That's why I've it's my husband and I β and β I think I think it's amazing. So when I speak, β I would talk about this gentleman and the worm chalet and say, what a visionary. He knew that Toronto's garbage one day, the landfill would fill up and we would
β shipping the garbage. That's what I had in my story. Again, we only know what we know. We only have the story in our head. β That's what I thought. I didn't know this man. β
And so one day, he's an engineer, so one day he called me up, because engineers love problems, β and he said, β I'm going to be in your town. I'd love to come and talk about the chalet. So I said, yeah, come on. β And so I was telling him, Mark, my gosh, when I speak a lot and I tell them, wow, this β visionary in London saw that Toronto's garbage would be sailing past their door and he had a solution. And he created this worm chalet and wow, so beautiful. β And he started laughing and he said, β I love
Cathy Nesbitt (24:5.058)
that story. β He said somebody gave it to me and said, hey, this is broken. Can you fix it? β But then he was manufacturing them. So then he manufactured and then he created β another β system, which is like a stool. It's kind of IKEA esque β in that it's the same idea, but it's more compact. So for a New York β cop, like a little β apartment, a studio place, β
know, residents at universities. β It fits anywhere and it's an actual. β
stool like it's something you can β use as a functional piece of furniture. β So I think β my journey has been β multifaceted. The very first event that I exhibited at there was a gentleman selling a sprouter and I knew nothing about growing sprouts so I also have a sprouting branch but it took 10 years for me to start selling it. I used β it.
David J Bland (24:43.465)
thing.
Cathy Nesbitt (25:4.448)
I a user of this sprout system for 10 years and I ate sprouts and I've been eating sprouts for 23 years. Very interesting β and in 2012 it's like my life goes in 10 year chunks β where I learn something new. like maybe I'm a slow learner or something. don't know. Anyways β in 2012 we were at β Tony β this man so he's 90 is he 96 this year? β He was 72 when I met him β and I didn't I came from a
employee background. I didn't know anyone that worked at 72. There's this man, he was a professional ballroom dancer. Right, so he had his crisp white shirt, his black vest, and he was a gentleman, know, doling out sprouts.
David J Bland (25:40.808)
wow.
Cathy Nesbitt (25:50.282)
which are just germinated seeds for eating. And I was like, what is that? And it was, it's like a little spaceship. It's a food grade plastic thing, stainless steel mesh. β And you just grow your sprouts in there. It's hydroponic. β And anyway, so I was like, what is this? And he said, it's a sprout or told me all about sprouts. And I was like, okay, β I don't need to know why something works. I'm like, look at you. It's super healthy. β I want what you have. So he said, okay, well start sprouting. β And so sprouts are like super,
foods, hydrating, alkalizing, regenerative, biogenic, and pennies, right? We have this food crisis now. Food's expensive and all the things. β
buy seeds, organic hopefully, because why add the chemicals, grow your own and boom. Rather than buying sprouts sprouted, which are more costly, they're already going bad as soon as you buy them, they're already going funky. So anyway, so I've been sprouting all this time and in 2012, Tony and I were at an event, now he's 82. What? And he said, hey, why don't you sell this sprouter?
Because every time people were at his booth, I'd say, my gosh, you should buy one of those sprouters. It's so great. Da da da. People probably thought I was a plant. Ha ha, sprouts. β And I was like, my gosh, why don't I? That's a great idea. So I'm an β accidental entrepreneur just adding things β that fit. β And what I have in my business is what I do in my life. So I think that's one of the keys to... β
David J Bland (27:6.441)
β That's good one.
Cathy Nesbitt (27:25.012)
A successful kind of business or life is doing what you love, β then you love what you're doing, and it's not like work, it's like play, and it's β a beautiful life. β
David J Bland (27:35.849)
Yeah, I ran into other worm startups recently. I don't know, maybe it's just coincidence, but I go to a bunch of different trade shows and I'm often keynoting in different places. they had like, it was worms for water filtration. But farm-only, farm use only, wasn't necessarily, it was more like gray water, I think.
I do see people looking for, especially the agricultural β industry and ag tech, there's all kinds of really interesting things happening in that space right now β that I think is getting overlooked because we look at, at least in the States, we look at all the tech, like the software tech and all the stuff coming out of Silicon Valley, which I'm guilty of because I do work in Silicon Valley. β But the...
Cathy Nesbitt (28:6.550)
Mmm. β
David J Bland (28:25.680)
the central part of the country, more rural areas are innovating in ways that are really interesting to me. β And I do think we overlook that at times. So I'm really glad that you're sharing your story here. When I think about the future,
And I think about, okay, so you've been doing this for quite some time. You sort of, is trial and error to find out what worked and some, you say a lot of like, it's coincidence or it's just like, I happen to stumble into this, but you do have the recognition to see how it might, you know, there is some pattern matching, I think you're going on a bit with you. What are the big assumptions you think are in your business now or maybe looking forward? Like, what are some things you're really interested in testing or, you know, some things you're looking at really researching and finding out?
Cathy Nesbitt (28:56.706)
Absolutely. β
Cathy Nesbitt (29:11.874)
Well, I know we've been talking all about worms, but I'm kind of transitioning now out of worms and into laughter wellness. Just because of the shutdown in 2020, people are really struggling. And...
In 2020, I took a deep dive, I'm a laughter yoga teacher, and I took a deep dive into the expression, laughter is the best medicine. β And β so I'm really launching into that. for me, that's, β and I do intend on still educating about the worms, that is still gonna be a piece, β and helping younger entrepreneurs. So if anybody's listening, looking to... β
learn more about vermicomposting and how to add it with these technologies, aquaponics and β because I do have all this knowledge β and it would be a shame for it just to go away and so I'm so really grateful for the opportunity to talk about worms on your podcast David and β yeah I think it's it's really important people have asked me for 23 years can this be scaled up
And I say probably can. β My goal, my focus is the individual. You have worms and you have worms and you. β Maybe not the best business model, β but for the planet and that's I believe what my purpose is, is just here to let people know, hey, this is something you can do. β And I have an expression without awareness, action is impossible. β And it's anything that you're doing that nobody's not, if people aren't doing it, β if it's a really cool thing and a really great thing that's needed for the planet if they're not doing
it they probably don't know β about it. β Without awareness, action β is impossible. Bad for business everyone! β
David J Bland (30:59.176)
Well, I think β we had this fascination of scaling all the things, you know, and I don't know what drives it. It's probably β late stage capitalism. β But it's this idea of, β well, it's scale. It's such a loaded question in the sense of, no, not everything has to scale. know, like β if you're having meaningful impact and you're enjoying it and you're making enough to get by, like, I think β the investor culture in a way has warped how we view that work.
Cathy Nesbitt (31:15.400)
Mmm. β It doesn't.
Cathy Nesbitt (31:24.107)
That's it.
David J Bland (31:28.474)
in that, β it has to be something that's scalable through technology and all that. β And β if you say, well, I have a quote unquote lifestyle business, sometimes it's looked down upon or frowned upon by investors. I don't think it should be. mean, not everything needs VC funding, not everything needs to scale. β I do think β similar to my comment earlier, not every hobby has to be monetized, right? β So I do think β there are places in the world for businesses like β what you have and having an impact and not necessarily.
scaling. β Scaling is not always the goal. So β
Cathy Nesbitt (32:2.636)
Well, over 100,000 students have seen my presentation. I've had a massive impact. I've spoken on many conferences. β And I've met students that I was in their grade three class because I've been around for decades. β
And they meet me at trade shows or farmers markets and they'll come up because I always have my company shirt on, same one from 20 years ago. And they say, Kathy, well, you came into my grade three class and because we had worms in the class, I went to college for environmental studies and now I'm an environmental lawyer. Right. So the impact is is bigger than us. We we don't know the impact that we're having.
David J Bland (32:44.712)
That's a great point. I think you mentioned earlier, it's like sort of like the long game, right? You've been at this so long that people have, you've impacted them so young and they've grown up and it's changed sort of their behaviors and how they look at things and how they perceive worms. I think that's pretty amazing. If people want to reach out to you, let's say they're listening to this episode and they're like, oh, I have questions for Cathy or I'd love to bring Cathy in to speak or just ask her more questions. What would be the best way for them to contact you?
Cathy Nesbitt (32:59.906)
Thank you.
Cathy Nesbitt (33:12.258)
β I would say my I guess if they're want to know about worms It's Kathy's composters calm Kathy with a C and if they do want to know about health and wellness and the laughter part Which is so fun is Kathy's club calm β
David J Bland (33:26.650)
Awesome. So maybe we'll have to have you back on to talk about the laughter part at some point as well. I want to thank you so much for hanging out with me. I learned so much about worms. I think I learned what we did wrong too, maybe. I'll talk to my wife about that one. β But I just appreciate you spending time and being so open and honest about like all the things that you tried over the years and what worked and what didn't, because it's not necessarily a straight line to success. So thank you so much, Kathy, for joining us today.
Cathy Nesbitt (33:30.921)
I would love that.
Cathy Nesbitt (33:51.936)
Thank you, David. β