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Chasta and frequent cohost Sara discuss what it means to feel trapped—sometimes even while “cruising” through life—and how getting honest about what we’re masking can lead to a better, more authentic life. Using examples from The Great Gatsby, Rent, La La Land, The Truman Show, and The Pitt, they explore how entrapment shows up professionally and personally, then move into real-life metaphors like quicksand, spiderwebs, and even losing a shoe in island mud. They cover common traps, including algorithms, jobs, and majors, expectations, relationships, people-pleasing, fight-or-flight, catastrophizing, habits, and routines, emphasizing self-awareness, boundaries, and focusing on what you can control in the present. They close with quotes about avoiding stagnation, creating something new, and inviting listeners to share their own “unstuck” stories.
00:00 Cruise Control Trap
00:34 Feeling Trapped Today
01:38 Trapped in Stories
02:44 Rent and Numbness
03:50 La La Land Catalyst
04:48 The Truman Show and The Pit
07:26 Metaphors of Being Stuck
07:59 Quicksand Shoe Story
10:19 Spiderweb and Beauty
12:38 Algorithm Trap
16:40 Breaking the Scroll
18:57 Jobs and Major Pressure
20:14 College Counselor Trap
21:07 School System Trap
22:27 Innovation Versus Safety
23:28 Expectations and Relationships
26:20 Perspective and Resolution
27:45 Trapped in Thoughts
30:12 Control the Present
31:41 People Pleasing Cycles
34:24 Fight or Flight Mode
36:44 Rapid Fire Trap List
39:30 Getting Unstuck Plan
41:45 Reinvention and Quotes
43:30 Community and Wrap Up
Creators and Guests
What is Nobody Listens to Chasta?
What happens when someone says the things everyone else is thinking—but nobody is willing to say out loud?
Nobody Listens to Chasta is a counterculture podcast hosted by entrepreneur, speaker, and author Chasta Hamilton. With humor, candor, and unapologetic honesty, Chasta tackles the uncomfortable topics shaping modern life—from youth sports trophies and toxic achievement culture to entrepreneurship, parenting, grief, addiction, and the pressure to conform.
Drawing from her experience building Stage Door Dance Productions, founding Girls Geared for Greatness, and writing books like Trash the Trophies and Handle the Horrible, Chasta challenges systems that no longer serve us and explores better ways to live, lead, and raise the next generation.
Expect bold conversations, unconventional perspectives, and thoughtful debate designed to inspire healthier, happier, and more intentional lives.
If you've ever questioned the status quo…
you might be someone who actually listens to Chasta.
[00:00:00] Chasta: You can be on cruise control, but maybe you're not at your best, happiest, most authentic self because you're covering something, masking something, avoiding something. Mm-hmm. And looking at that could actually help you live a much better life.
Hey, everybody. It's Chasta. We are back with Nobody Listens to Chasta. I hope you're here and you're listening because today I am going to be talking about something that I think that we have all experienced, and that is feeling trapped.
What to do when you're feeling trapped, where we feel trapped, why getting trapped happens, how to get unstuck, how to reinvent, how to get past it. I am here with my friend and frequent cohost, Sarah. Hey. And go ahead and tell them about some of those hats you wear. Oh, so many hats. So I, um, work at Stage Door with Chasta.
I am a former school counselor, former crisis counselor. Um, I have been in the education system. I have been in the mental health field. I've been in the nonprofit field, so lots of hats. So I think you're gonna have a lot of great insight today. Yes, lots of experience with trapped . So, yes, and it's, trapped is such a heavy word, right?
It is. But it's so true. It is. And, I mean, there have been points in my life where I've felt sickeningly... Is that even a word, sickeningly? Sickening- It can be. It is now ... sick. I've, I've felt really trapped. Yes. Um, and even a little bit now. Mm-hmm. And I think that everybody feels shades of trapped- Yes ... in their lives.
Yes. So as we were thinking about this conversation today, I was actually like, oh my gosh, so many of the books, movies, shows, stories that I love feature people that are trapped. Oh, interesting. Did you know that? I did not know that. Or did you think about what, what you watched? I didn't think about it, no.
So I actually wrote down a few- Okay ... thinking that we could kinda s- start the conversation there. Sure. So first off, The Great Gatsby. Okay. Jay Gatsby is stuck. Yes. Are you... You're familiar, right? I am familiar, but it's been a hot minute . Okay. Well, you gotta go back. Okay. You gotta go back, and you gotta recheck it out because I, I...
It is, like, a great American tragedy story. Mm-hmm. Like, you have everything in the world, and you're still trapped. Yes. So one example. Now, another one is something we have a shared love of. Okay. I'm ready. It's a musical. Okay. Do you wanna guess it? No. Okay. Rent. Okay. we're big Rent weirdos. We are, but we love so many musicals.
That's true. That's why. And probably many talk about being trapped as well. Correct, yes. That's why there's 11 o'clock number, the I Want song. Mm-hmm. But, you know, with Rent, it's like I always think about act two, and, like, Mark is so trapped. Yes. Like, he's, he's cruising. I think the most dangerous level of being trapped is where we're cruising.
Yes. Like, we're living life. We're functioning. You know, we look happy maybe from the outside- Yes ... but we're trapped. Yes, and it's like the monotony of, like- The monotony ... the day-to-day. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I think that always really spoke to me, you know? Mm-hmm. And then Roger's, like, screaming at him.
Mark lives for his work days. Or that's not how it goes. Do you know how it... Remember? But- It's in Halloween. It is. I can't think of it off the top of my head Yeah, so anyway, we'll revisit it But yes. But yes, there's this moment where, like, a friend calls him out on it- Right ... saying he's hiding behind his camera.
Mm-hmm. And but that he's really just numb. Yep. Um, and I think a lot of us suffer from that. Like, I think numbness is a trap. I, yes, I think it is, too. We'll get into more of that soon. Okay. Okay, another one. I'm ready. This is my favorite movie. Okay. Do you know it? This is a lot of pressure right now. Well, nobody listens to me, so I wouldn't expect you to.
But do you want... Are you gonna take a stab, or do you want me to go for it? I just want you to go for it. Okay. La La Land. La La Land. The movie that changed my life in 2016. Yes. You've seen it, right? I have seen it. People love it or hate it. Not as many times as you, but I have seen it. Yes, I, I wouldn't expect you to see it as many times as I did, especially in that year.
But it, so John, my husband, he wasn't my husband at the time, but he was like, "This is a movie that's made for you." And I was like, "Well, that feels like a very bold statement." Um, but I watched it, and it made me question everything- Okay ... that I've ever done. Okay. Like, the epilogue at the end where she's sitting there thinking about how her life could have been differently if she had made different choices and steps along the way- Mm-hmm
really shook me. Yeah. And it, it was a catalyst for a lot of change in my life. Okay. So those were three that are, like, really personal to me, Great Gatsby, Rent, and La La Land. Then there's two others that I thought- Okay ... were more broad, but just, like, really generic. And one is a movie that I feel like I'm kind of living in right now, and do you wanna guess that?
Probably not, right? Probably not. Okay. There are so many things. The Truman Show. Okay. Not as familiar. Okay. Well, you've gotta watch it. Okay. So I'm not gonna give you any spoilers, so we can't really talk about it if you haven't- Okay ... seen it, but you should check it out. But to everyone who has? To everyone that has, like, do you feel like you're living in The Truman Show right now?
Like, do you feel like you're about to walk into a wall? 'Cause sometimes I do. Another one is one that we wa- they, I know we both watch. Okay. But- I don't wanna guess it again- Okay. ... 'cause we watch so many things. This is a recent one. Okay. And I have, I don't watch things a lot anymore. I've, there's been, like, two shows this whole year I've watched.
See, I should just go back and guess Rent and then be done with the guessing. No, no, well, this is a TV show. Okay. And Rent's not a TV show yet. Is it Dexter? Because Dexter- No, but that's, that is one- ... is also trapped ... of the two, but he is also trapped. Like, in a lot of ways. In a lot of ways. Um, I was actually thinking The Pit.
Oh, I love The Pit. I know you do. That's why I put it last on the list. Okay. Um, but they're all trapped. Yes. Especially Dr. Robbie. And, like, literally and mentally. Yes. Yes. Yeah, they're, they're, they're- Like, they're literally trapped ... trapped for their shift. Yeah. And you, and it goes horribly awry in every season so far.
Correct. So they're trapped for, like, 15, 16 hours. And, and then in their, they're trapped in their storylines- Mm-hmm ... and their professional ... You know, what really fascinates me about the pit and what I love about it is that, um, separation of, like, personal and professional, but also the overlays that it carries into those environments.
Yes. So how do we, how do we thrive professionally but maybe feeling trapped personally, or how do we thrive personally feeling trapped professionally, right? Yes. Like, that juxtaposition and dynamic is really fascinating. It is. And I think it's something that everyone can relate to, which is why so many people have really just grown- Yeah
to love the pit. Like, I'm like, "Maybe I need to be an ER." Like, sign me up. Go back. Maybe I missed out on, like, being an attendee. And, like, maybe that's my calling. Maybe you missed it. You know, I was pre-med and then- I never was ... had to take calculus But this is interesting. And not a lot of people know this about me.
In the eighth grade, on shadow day, like job shadow day- Yeah ... which is Groundhog Day usually. Oh. Well, it was in East Tennessee. Okay. 'Cause, you know, shadows are everywhere. So Groundhog Day- Okay, that makes sense ... I was job shadowing. We never have that in Ohio. Um, so I shadowed at an emergency room. Okay. Um, now in East Tennessee it was a very sleepy day, 'cause, you know, it was like 9:00 to 3:00 on a weekday.
'Cause it's during school hours. Yes. Yeah. It's during school hours. It's not quite the pit. It was not the vibe. I was really ... It just didn't feel exciting. Yeah. Maybe that's a great day for them. I don't know. But I was like, this doesn't feel like- This isn't right ... the right, the right fit for me. So I'm curious, when we, you think about being trapped, like, what do you think of?
Do you have, like, a metaphor in your mind? I have one in mind. So I don't, I don't have a metaphor. But when I think of it, I think of more of just getting stuck in the routine of everything. Um, not being able to change, just feeling like you're stuck in quicksand almost. Okay, quicksand. Yeah. So that for you is like- Okay, so it is a metaphor.
Yes, you do. So- Yeah ... so trying to get out. Yeah. So did you kinda feel that way when Cameron, your husband, was digging that shoe out? Was that, like, the visual of- Oh, my gosh. I mean, that whole shoe situation was just- But tell everybody a little bit about that ... insane. So we had gone on a boating trip Um, near Savannah where we were looking for shark's teeth, 'cause my children really love shark's teeth.
And we got off on this little island that you can only get to by boat, and my youngest is digging in this, like, little wade pool, and he gets stuck in it, and he pulls himself out, and his shoe is gone. And it's just, like, slurping it. W- we didn't even see it. Oh. Like, we just- It's just gone ... it's gone. It's, the, we can't find it.
So our lovely boat tour guide man, um, he jumped in, tried to, like, get it out, dig it out. He's like, "This thing's gone." We spent, I kid you not, 35 minutes- And who- ... trying to dig the shoe out ... and who was in there digging it? Me and then my husband, Cameron. And then what was... Like, was Cameron, like, crawling in?
Like, was he, was it arm-deep, foot-deep? Like, give us- So- ... a visual here ... the, the water was knee-deep. Okay. But I would say the sand, like, was fully encompassing our feet. So then our shoes started to come off too. Oh my gosh, and you just- ... you were like, "We're gonna lose all of our shoes." So we were like... Right.
We were gonna lose all of our shoes. We weren't gonna have any shoes for the rest of this tour. And so we're, like, digging in, pulling things out. You can't see anything. There's, I mean, God knows what in there. Fish. Who knows? We're reaching our hands in, trying to dig it out. We keep getting shells. There's, like, I think at one point Cameron pulled out, like, s- a piece of glass, and we were like, "This is dangerous."
Um, but we eventually... Cameron was the one that found it. You got unstuck. He saved the day. He got, we got unstuck. Untrapped. Un- untrapped, unstuck. And you know what? It was by no calculation. It just happened, which I think is also, like, something that happens. Yeah. Like, sometimes- You don't always know you're gonna get stuck
you try to get out. Yeah. Sometimes you try to get untrapped, and it doesn't work, and then it happens when you- And- ... least expect it ... and you actually got untrapped with all of your shoes. Sometimes you get trapped, the shoes are gone, but you're still okay. We did. Yeah. We did. Um, it, I would, the metaphor that I keep coming back to, and y- I'm sure you've seen that comic or this meme that goes around that's about, like, the snake that's, like, the pet and then it wraps around you and, like, suffocates you.
And, like, kills you. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Not to d- you know, to get it- It's a little darker- ... take it to the dark ... than quicksand. Yeah, it's a little darker. That's not the one I'm going to. Okay. But that is a popular one. Okay. But, and I, it is kind of a good metaphor- It is ... of, like, what you may love may also kill you.
Yeah. Absolutely. And it, it may have you trapped and, like, slithering the life out of you- ... like, as you sleep. But it is kinda dark. Yeah. Um, I was thinking, and, and there's a juxtaposition in this metaphor for me because it's, I think of, like, a spiderweb. Okay. And I love Charlotte's Web. Yes. I mean, that is a tearjerker.
Classic, yes. I mean, come on. Like, what, we're torturing the children. Yeah, and, well, and then we turned it into a musical that the children can go watch on field trips. I know. It's wild. Yeah, and I watched that version on stage and was crying. Yeah. It's devastating. It, truly. So anyway, there's, like, the beauty of the web.
Mm-hmm. Right? And, like, the intricacy and that it is this, like, home and life force. But there's also, like, you have... Well, one, they are just inherently sticky. Yes. The webs are very sticky. Yes. But that spider is so confined to, like, that perspective in the web- Mm-hmm ... that, like, what are they missing beyond that too?
Yeah. So I, I tend to gravitate towards this idea of, like, a spiderweb- Okay. I love that ... and the stygma. And also sometimes things get trapped in it that you might not want to get trapped in it. That's also true. Mm-hmm. Like, do you remember when we had that really gorgeous web at the studio? The- It was during the pandemic era.
With the banana spider? I think maybe. I don't know the species. The big black- But it was- The big black and yellow one? Yeah. Yeah. And I remember I would park my car and I would just look at it and its beauty. Mm-hmm. And I was like, "I'm gonna feel so sad when the spider is gone," which I knew- It came back for a few seasons, though
which I knew inevitably it would be gone. Yeah. And it's not there anymore. No. But I just remember, like, being in awe of it.
[00:11:40] Sara: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:41] Chasta: So that's where my head was going with this. I think it was nibbles that got the spider out, though. Okay. Well- So circle of life, right? Trade-off. So anyway, we've talked about the entertainment that we love, where we see characters that feel trapped.
I mean, it's a pivotal character arc story- Right ... so I'm sure people could take all the things they love- Anything that they see ... and think about- Yeah. ... What's trapped in their preferred media form. Yes. And then we talked about, like, the metaphors of, like, stygma, so now I think we need to get into, like, the traps.
Okay. And there's a lot. There's a lot of traps. We made a list. We did make a list. Should I just rumble down the list or should we, like, go and stop? What do you think would be best? I think we should read... Let's, let's read some and talk about some. Okay. All right. And- Because there's a lot. There, I know.
We're not gonna get to all of them today. You were really firing them off when we were talking about it. And I, I added even more this morning. Oh, fabulous. 'Cause once we started talking about it, I was like, "Oh my gosh. We're so many ways to feel trapped." Truly. Um, I guess, like, so one, and this is because we have a lot of conversation about the digital space right now.
Yes. Because it is changing quickly- Yes ... and scarily- Yes ... and haphazardly maybe. Mm-hmm. Um, so we were talking about getting trapped in algorithms. Yep. Obviously, we would love for, for this show to be trapped in your algorithm, but what is, what your algorithm is, is a trap, right? It is. Do you, well, like, what do you see on your algorithm?
Oh my gosh. So it depends on my platform. So if it's, like, my Spotify in the car listening to things algorithm- I know what's coming up on that ... Oh, what is it? What do you think it is? Oh, I don't know. You get to guess. Well, I was gonna guess Taylor Swift. Okay. Well, yes, but, like, as far as, like, my, like, podcast listening- Yeah.
Okay ... so we listen to a lot of, like, things as I'm driving my oldest child to school, because it's a very long drive. Um, but it'll pop up to, like, space podcasts, so we get, like, NASA, and then I get a lot of, like, special education podcasts, 'cause you know my passion's in there- Yeah ... which has recently this week pivoted to, like, teacher podcasts, so, like, teachers talking about the state of education, which I thought was interesting, because I didn't search that.
That just auto-played. Um, so that's, like, on my Spotify. Which to that point, podcasts are great to listen to if you're driving- Love a podcast ... or you're, like, walking or- Yes. I mean- There's so many great ways to listen to a podcast. I love my Taylor Swift playlist too, but sometimes I just wanna listen to conversation that I'm not involved in, so- And you probably have-
podcasts are great ... a lot of Korean music. I, y- yes. Compliments of my six-year-old. A lot of K-pop happening. Who has a lot of passion. Yes. Yes, that's 100% gonna be in my Spotify Wrapped. But those are algorithms. They are. So that's what you're seeing, like, fuel through- Yes ... in your algorithms. But then my Instagram's totally different.
Yeah. So my Instagram, I get a lot of, like, Disney World stuff. Yep. Um, I get a lot of dance competition stuff, um, just from- I know you're always sending me stuff ... looking at things. I know. But then every time I send you something, I'm like, man, now I'm trapped in this because- Oh, I know ... I've shared it. Wait, let's talk about the horoscope stuff, 'cause we're both Geminis.
Oh, so much- ... horoscope stuff We're clearly trapped in the Gemini- Clearly ... horoscope land of the algorithm. Where we're, like, retrograding for the next 17 years or whatever. Yeah, well we're supposed to be having the best year of our life- Yes ... for, like, every week of 2026, and I think we're still waiting. Yes.
Well, 'cause it's alternating. It's saying it's gonna be the best week of your life, and then it's like, hey, you're stuck in this retrograde, trapped. Doomsday. We're trapped. Yeah. Doomsday is coming. Um, and then what about, like, do you still get on Facebook? I do get on Facebook. Not quite as frequently, so I don't see, like, as many things sponsored.
That's, like, more of school ads. Yeah. Like, come check out this school. Yeah. It is very different, right? Mm-hmm. Like, the personality based vers- or, like, interest based, I guess. Yes. You know, one of the fascinating things that when we had one of the Girls Geared for Greatness listening circles, like, earlier this year- as some of the students were sharing that, like, their primary source of news is their algorithm.
Okay. Which is, like, a very narrow window. It, yeah. Mm-hmm. And I think that's, like, important as, like, we're teaching digital literacy, as we're teaching, like, where you're going to get what, that people understand that, like, what they're seeing may be, like, a very narrow lens. Yes. Well, one thing that I noticed, like, when my kids started going to school was that I would search, like, lunchbox ideas or snack ideas, um, and I would get all of these things on my algorithm with, like, people who would, like, send their kids with rice shaped like Mickey Mouse or- Oh, yeah
whatever. I mean, this, the, like- And ... the, the lunch food design is next level. Yes. But then what happens is that that's all your algorithm shows you, so then you start thinking, "Is this the norm?" Like, is it, like, fine that I'm throwing in an Uncrustable in the lunchbox? Or, like, should I be making these culinary masterpieces?
We were talking about this on the Is Everyone Fake? episode. Okay. We started talking about the dorm rooms. Oh, yes. 'Cause I'm sure you've seen those, right? I have, but there are companies now that will do it for you. I know. It's become like- It's wild ... it's become, like, a whole thing- Yes ... that only exists because of algorithms, basically.
Yes. Like, nobody did that pre-algorithms, right? Right. Um, so that's fascinating. Yes. So how, how do you get, how do you get untrapped from your algorithm? Well, so first you have to recognize that you are trapped. So you have to be like, "Whoa, wait a minute, I am seeing one too many lunchboxes pop up on this right now."
Um, and then really I feel like you just have to search for other things, like what you wanna see, start clicking on different things. Like, it's really difficult. Um, one of the things that I did, and I know that you did too, I bought the brick- Yep ... to just go ahead and block my social media during the day, which has helped.
Yeah. Um, because honestly, after a long day when I come home, like, I don't wanna look at lunchboxes. Yeah. Like, so I'm looking at things totally different. Yeah. I got a brick in the fall, which is basically, like, a jammer. Yes. Like which sounds so ridiculous. Yes. Like, it stops... Well, it'll block whatever you want- Yeah
um, on your phone. Any app. Like, you could take it down to, like, a dumb phone basically- Mm-hmm ... if you wanted, um, which is the term we're now using for, like, an actual phone, which- Which is still a phone ... not a smartphone. But- Yep. Um, because I was like, "I just can't have this many distractions happening, like, when I need to have peak focus."
Right. Um, because it is easy to be, like, picking up t- take a five-minute scroll. Yes. And it, it interrupts a workflow. Yes. And I think a lot of us have become less aware to how inter- how disruptive it is.
[00:17:57] Sara: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:58] Chasta: So I was like, "Let's just, let's just do this." The news cycle was feeling very heavy, and I was like, "I still have to get through the day and accomplish things."
So that's why I added it to my rotation. Yep. And then I found my habit shifted. Yes. And then I didn't really need it as much. Yep. Um- That's exactly what happened to me, too. So it is, it is really fascinating. Yes. And I think, like, self-awareness, boundaries- Mm-hmm ... walking away, shifting, and just knowing, like, what you're engaging in, right?
Right. is really, really important. So jobs. Jobs. How many people feel trapped in their professional careers? A lot. Or so not even, I would take it further back from college careers. Okay. Or college careers, careers, professional careers, but to college majors.
Yes. Or and then even, like, the pressure of the schooling- Mm-hmm ... prior to that- Oh, 100% ... of like what are you gonna do? Who are you gonna be? What are you majoring in? Yeah. Like, we're so driven on this linear path of, like, what is your job gonna be. Mm-hmm. That, like, you can't just say, like, "Oh, well, I'm a multi-hyphenate."
Right. Right. Which is like sometimes people are like, "What do you do?" to me, and I don't even, I don't really know what to say. Right. Right. Like, I do a lot. Um, but everybody wants it, like, so boxed in. Yes. Well, they're looking for that title. It's like the, it's the resume stocking. They're looking for, like, what would be on your resume.
Yeah. And I think that that's, it's, I don't know. Yeah. It feels weird. And, like, all the- 'Cause why can't we just be? Why, yeah, why can't we just be, like, hardworking, good humans- Right ... making a difference through the field of our choice- Right ... or the method of our choice- Right ... or, you know, the multi-hyphenate ways of our choice.
Yep. So that's, that's kinda complicated, and I always tell people, like, just don't get stuck. Right. 'Cause you could live your whole, like, your life could pass you by- Yes. Yeah ... and you could be stuck in a job that you absolutely hate. Right. For what? Well, and that's, it's part of, like... So I know y- I know you know my, like, history with education and the education system, but, like, when I was in high school, I went to a very, like, it was a very college prep high school, um, where we met, actually.
Um, and it was, you know, I- And then you went somewhere even more intense after that, right, for like a little spurt? Well, so I sat, I sat down with my college counselor my s- sophomore year, 'cause that's when they had us start looking at colleges was sophomore year. And I had all of my colleges listed, and she crossed every single one off and said that I couldn't get into any of them- Ooh
and that I needed to pick something that was safer academically. Ooh. Um, and so at that point, you know, I was like, you know, "This, this is a lot of pressure for, like, what..." How old are you in your sophomore year? Like 15. Like 15. Yeah. For a 15-year-old. Um, and that continued, like, through my junior year, and so I left.
Like- Because she was trapping you. Yeah. You were trapped. I was trapped within the school system within this very, like- Vague idea of safety ... everyone's going to college. Everyone's gonna, like, check these boxes so that we can keep our reputation. And, you know, that's not what I wanted- Right ... or what I felt was good.
So when I left, I went to an early college out of state, um, which was even more intense because now we're throwing all of these kids who also left their high schools- Yeah ... because they were trapped in together a year early. Um, and that, I was trapped, you know- Not emotionally, but like not academically either.
I was trapped physically Yeah. Because I was on the top of a remote- Yeah ... mountain, and I couldn't go anywhere or do anything. But I think, I think that's a great point because it, it is d- like, there's physical, there's emotional- Yes ... there's spatial- Yes ... there's, um, mental. Like, there's so many different forms of entrapment, of how we can feel trapped.
Right, and there's, there's gonna be 100 people telling you that you have to do things certain ways- Yes ... and that you cannot think outside of the box or get creative- Mm-hmm ... but you can. And that this is g- this is the choice you have to make. Yes. And so, you know, I went from my sophomore college counselor telling me that I wasn't smart enough to get into any of my top choice schools to graduating with my bachelor's degree six months before my 21st birthday.
It feels like- And it's just, you have to, you have to think outside of the box. And doesn't it feel like those responses are so often rooted in fear and insecurity? Yes. Often from the person saying them. Yes. Of like, "Oh, that's what you're g- Oh, you're gonna quit your job. Oh, you're gonna do this. Oh, you're gonna do that."
But it's like why, why can't we embrace this innovative mindset more? Right. That's, that's a curiosity that I have. Yes. Um- And why aren't we teaching kids to be more innovative that way? Yeah, well, I have a lot of theories on that- Okay. ... that may not be as relevant to today's episode. That can be another day.
That could be maybe coming up soon- Yes ... on another one. Yep. But it is this idea of like why is being innovative-
[00:23:03] Sara: Mm-hmm ...
[00:23:04] Chasta: a bad thing? Like, why is turning in the system the go-to? Right. The safe system. Right. Because we know that really great things happen when people innovate.
[00:23:13] Sara: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:14] Chasta: But at some point we've decided, "Oh, we've had enough."
Right. Maybe we, maybe we pause. Right. And it's like the system is in a sense trap- trapping- Yes ... all of us. Yes. Yeah. Um, okay. Anyway. So before we get... Yeah, that, that could go on forever. Expectations. Mm-hmm. I think that kinda goes with even jobs, but it, you know, that can cross over professionally and personally.
Like, you know, how many times have we felt trapped in a decision just because we feel like we're meeting e- meeting or not meeting expectations? Right. Or we're doing something because we feel like this is the response we think someone wants or needs- Yep ... for whatever reason. Yep. Um, another big one that I put on here are relationships.
Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Relationships. I mean, that's- Yes ... I feel like we have to tell a story or two here. I mean, feel like we have them. I don't know which ones we can tell. Um, but yes. I mean, I think even relationships go to, like, jobs, friends- Yeah, I mean, the whole circle ... romantic relationships. Yeah. Like, there's- I was thinking about that Plain White T's concert.
Oh. Yep. That was interesting. That's, that's your story. That's not my story. So I was just having this, like, short-lived, you know- It was, it was short. It was, it was, it was casual. Very casual. And we were actually in New York City together. Mm-hmm. Right? And - A casual relationship. Yes. Specifying. Specifying what was casual.
Yes, and we were on a trip to New York City together. Yep. And there was a Plain White T's concert happening in Raleigh. Yep. And they had a really popular song on at the time, Hey There Delilah. Hey There Delilah. And what's the second line of the song? What's it like in New York City? With this person. That I was just, like, you know, very casual.
This did not last long whatsoever. I'm not sure this person thought it was casual, but... I... So then I'm getting a picture. I don't even know how we were sending pictures back then. We didn't have d- I didn't have an iPhone. Like- I had, like, a... I saw it on Facebook. Oh, it was Facebook. That's where we saw it. We saw it on Facebook.
I was like, it was the plan where you get so many pictures per month. Like, greedy and pixelated. Yeah. But we get on Facebook when we get back to the hotel, and do you remember, do you remember what it was? It was him standing under a billboard at the Plain White T's concert- Yeah ... in my name. Mm-hmm. It didn't say, "Hey there, Delilah."
It said, "Hey there, Chasta. What's it like- Yeah ... in New York City?" Yeah. And I was like, "Okay, whoa." "Whoa, too far, too fast." Um, kudos to creativity. I mean- Kudos to going for it ... talking about innovative. Yes, kudos to the innovation. But for me, I was, it felt, it felt very trapped. Right. Like- Well, and that's a situation where you think something's casual- Yeah
and you think that something is, you know, obviously very different from what the other person is thinking, and I think that a lot of the times that's what causes these feelings in these relationships. And that's a great point, because trapped can also come from, like, difference in perspective- Yep ... and perception.
Yep. Which can be two different things. Mm-hmm. Like, some- a person can perceive one thing is happening when the perspective of the other person is total opposite. Yeah. Which is what clearly was- And I would say that's, like, why a lot of relationships end, honestly.
[00:26:38] Sara: Yes.
[00:26:40] Chasta: It's so true. Um, I'm trying to think of, like, any others.
You know, I think about Google reviews, right? Oh, my gosh. Like, Google reviews are always, um, you know, kind of sticky because, like, it's usually they're put out there because something didn't get resolved. Yep. There's lack of resolution. Yep. Um, and a lot of times people will put something on there without even trying to, like, talk through it first.
Right. Um, maybe that's their way of breaking out of the trap. But I, I do, and I'm talking about conflict on another episode, but I think that this idea of, like, information and conversation can resolve a lot of these feelings of being trapped- Yeah ... if we just get out of feeling insecure. Right. Like, we kind of allow ourselves to sit in the trap.
Right. Well, I think we also, we have to, and this is, like, with my counselor hat, we have to remind ourselves that, like, our perspectives and our takes on situations are valid. Yep. And that even if someone is telling you that, like, theirs is different, that's fine. It can be different, but yours is valid, and if you're not gonna believe that you have something valid to say- Yeah
to resolve the situation, like, it's just, you're gonna stay trapped. Trapped. Yeah. In this, like, dangerous cycle. Yeah. Which goes into another great, um, trapped point is, and we talked about this a lot, getting trapped in our thoughts. Yes. That's ... It's so hard. It's so hard. Um, whether it's you're catastrophizing something.
Yes. I talk about that a lot in Handle the Horrible of, like, how, how we think things are automatically worse before they've even happened. Yep. And how much energy we lose- Mm-hmm ... because of that. So what are, like, what are your, what's a thought you've been trapped in, do you think? Or, like, oh, I mean, for me sometimes it's like, "Oh, I think this is gonna be a reaction or a response," and it's not rooted in anything actual.
That's ... You, and you know that I'm really not the best at this, but, like, when I'm sending email responses, like, I'll just read them over and over again to, like- You, like, fixate. Yes, I fixate- ... to, like, make sure that, like, it can't be interpreted one way or another way. Or, like, and I mean, now you have AI where you could plug it in and be like, "Could this be interpreted poorly?"
Um, but I don't. Instead, I choose to sit there and read it as a human. Yeah. Um, but I'm really bad about doing that. Like, when I had to send an email to my son's school, I had to read that thing, like, 1,700 times. Yeah. Well, and it probably felt hard because you were also advocating- Yes ... for someone that you love and care about very much.
Yes. And you wanted it to be received and perceived correctly. Correct. Um, which is always tricky- Yes ... because you never know, like, the vibe on the other side. Yes, which could be a whole nother episode. It could be. I think the unknown is a space where I get trapped a lot. Yeah. Like, and contracts. That, that's also on the list.
[00:29:18] Sara: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:19] Chasta: Unknowns and contracts because I think about, like, when, like, if we have, like, a lease renewal coming up for the studios- Yep ... I find that, like, incredibly stressful multiple years ahead of time. Right. Well, 'cause you have to predict. You have to try to say, like- You have to predict. You have to forecast.
Will there be another 2020? Yeah. Like, I mean, it's just, it's exhausting. And I think I'm still working through, like, some of that- I'm sure ... energy and- I think we're all still working through- ... and fear ... the pandemic. We're all still a little trapped. We're, well, we're a little traumatized. When we were actually trapped for- When we, when we were actually trapped for months on end.
Um, so it's just, it's so interesting, and I'm like, "Why am I thinking about this thing two years from now?" Mm-hmm. "When I don't even know if next week is happening?" Right. But it's like this mind cycle of being prepared, but like being prepared enough, but not wasting energy on what we don't know yet. Right.
So how, like maybe- I- ... tell me from your counselor perspective. Well, so hold on, 'cause I, this actually ties in perfectly with my quote. Oh, perfect. So, um, this is from a book, it's called The Edge of Never, and I haven't read it in a really long time, but I read it like right out of college and at a time where I was feeling very trapped, um, when I graduated from college.
Um, not because I was coming to the studio, 'cause I love the studio, but trapped for other reasons. Yeah. I mean, hey, we all get trapped. Um, and so it says, "Dwell on the past and you can't move forward. Spend too much time planning for the future and you push yourself backwards or stay stagnant in the same place all your life.
Live in the moment where everything is just right." And I think that this, like as I was getting my master's in counseling, like this quote actually really inspired like my practices and how I handled situations. But like we have to think what can we control now? Yeah. So when we're thinking like what can we control in this moment that's going to help with the situation that we're thinking about?
And we can't control other people. And we can't control other people. Mm-hmm. And that's so hard because it's so easy to say like, "If this person would just do this, then it would make this so much easier." Yep. Um, but you have to think what can you control right now to make whatever situation you're thinking about feel better?
Yeah. And if the answer is nothing, then you're right where you should be. Yep. Or at least manageable. Yes. You're right. Like sometimes things just don't even feel good, but you can at least feel manageable. Right. Um, so that, so we were at, at, that kind of, that went to expectations to relationships to- Mm-hmm
um, people pleasing, which this is still in the, the people sphere. I am a people pleaser. I, you know, I think I'm a recovering one. Okay. Because for some reason I've, I somehow have made a lot of people unpleased. Well. So Inadvertently, but I have displeased a lot of people, so I'm not sure I'm still in the people pleasing club.
I mean, I feel like it's, like, half and half. Yeah, just like me. Like how I like my tea. Half sweet. Unsweet. Yes, yes. It's selective people-pleasing maybe. Yeah, the truth, it doesn't always please people. Right. That's where I've upset the most people. Mm-hmm. Um, but l- talk about your people-pleasing. I mean, full on.
I, I am the kind of person who, like, if I order a chocolate cake and they give me, like, corn on the cob, I'm like, "This is great, thank you." I know. Like You are like that. Sometimes we're ordering- Thank you so much. This is great ... and I'll be like, "I'm just gonna go fix this." Yeah. Because it's not what you wanted.
I, I mean, and that's, like, the normal reaction. But for whatever reason- ... maybe we tie it back to, like, my super perfectionist high school experience, but, like, I am very much- You're playing it safe. Yes. Yeah. Like- You don't wanna, you don't wanna, like, rock the boat. Right. Like, even today when I was messaging, um, my child's doctor about something, I had sent, like, two messages yesterday, and we were going back and forth in a conversation, as people do.
Yeah. They converse. And I was like, "I'm so sorry for this message." Like, it's just- I know, you don't have to apologize. I know you don't. Yeah. But, like- I mean, you're not ... that's just how I am. Yeah. I don't know. I'm trapped. I always- I'm trapped in this cycle. Of people-pleasing. Of people-pleasing. I think a lot of people are.
Mm-hmm. It's, like, one or the oth- Like, I'm, I am in the middle. Okay. Like, I, I never have a desire to be, like, rude. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I feel like there are some people that people-pleasing just isn't on their radar at all. Yes. Which borderlines. They, they're like- It could borderline, right? Rude or, like, bullying.
Or, yeah. Right. Right. Like, just really terrible. See, but I wouldn't say you're half and half. I would say you set boundaries. Oh, yeah, which that could actually be a whole episode. It could be a whole episode. Boundaries are really hard. They are. Um, and boundaries do help with this feeling of entrapment in a way.
Right. Because boundaries are a safe space in their own right. Mm-hmm. Um, but they are hard to... They're hard to set. Yeah. And they're hard to enforce. Yeah. 'Cause you can set a boundary, but what's a boundary if you're not enforcing a boundary? Right. Um- Well, and I also think, like, there are people... So when I, like, say that I'm a people-pleaser, it's, like, externally.
Yeah. Like, if I'm thinking about, like, my marriage and, like, my husband will be the first to tell you this. Like, if he says something that's like, "Hey, like, could you not put the, like, cups on the bottom rack of the dishwasher?" I'm the kind of person who'll be like, "I'm never loading it again." Like- Yeah ... I don't, I don't want to.
Like, at that point I'm just like, "I'm done." You tap out. Yeah. But y- that's a great point, 'cause our next one is getting trapped in fight or flight. Oh, well, there we go. So you're flighting. I, yes. You are off. I feel like I'm constantly in, like, a state of fight or flight. But I think it's, I think it's easy to get trapped in.
Yes. I think from a lot of the grief I experienced in childhood- Okay ... like, maybe I was, I was in that for a period of time, and maybe even post-college for a little bit. Um, it's sometimes we don't even know it- Right ... because it becomes normal. Yeah. So we don't know that we feel trapped in a state. Until we really do some deep work.
Yes. So that deep work is really im- like, you can live on the surface- Yep ... and coast, like we were saying. Yeah. You can be on cruise control, but maybe you're not at your best, happiest, most authentic self because you're covering something, masking something, avoiding something. Mm-hmm. And looking at that could actually help you live a much better life.
[00:35:14] Sara: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:14] Chasta: Yeah, and just being aware of like- Yeah ... what, and I think Um, part of it is really understanding, like, what the signs of, like, fight or flight are. Are. And, like, I think a lot of it, and maybe a lot of people can relate, but, like, as a new mom, getting up with a newborn every so often, like, still to this day, if, like, a child gets out of bed, like, I'm awake.
Like that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like, it's just, like- You're conditioned. Yes, and I didn't realize that's not normal. Apparently it's not, but here we are. But you know that about yourself. Yes. So you can, like, you can work on it. Yeah. And I think that's, you know, when we were leaving the competitive dance space, I was having a very visceral reaction- Mm-hmm
um, to the phone and to emails. Yes. Breaking out in hives. Um- Oh, you know I changed the studio ringtone. You changed the studio, yeah. Because I was like, "I can't." We had to set a boundary. Yes. Um, but it was, it was a difficult time- Mm-hmm ... where I felt like we were very much in fight or flight. Like, 'cause we were doing so much explaining, so much educating, so many conversations.
Yep. Um, and that awareness of like, okay, this isn't healthy. Right. This isn't sustainable. Right. Um, is, like, really powerful to say. It is. A lot of people just won't say it. Right. They'll sit in it. Right. So. Well, and I think a lot of people are afraid to acknowledge it if they don't have, like, a path forward.
Yes. And I think it's- Yes ... oh, it's okay to acknowledge it and say, "This is something we need to figure out what we can control right now- Yeah ... to make this better." Like, we don't need to have a 10-year plan. Right. But what can we do in- What can we do right now? Like you were saying, what can we do in this moment- Mm-hmm
to improve this? I'm gonna just, like, rapid fire- Okay, I'm ready ... this list, and then I wanna talk about how people can kind of get unstuck too. Yeah. Um, so we've already talked about a few of these things. You can get trapped in comfort just 'cause something feels good. Yes. Um, you'll do it over and over, like maybe you'll eat mashed potatoes, like, every single day.
Yep. Or, or other things. You'll stay in the same- Trapped, fixation. Yes, yes, yes. Um, decision fatigue. Yes. Oh my gosh. 'Cause you have to make so many... It's easy to get trapped. I am, like, the world's best decision fatiguer. I've also noticed trends of getting trapped in self-deprecation. Mm-hmm. Like, it being easier to sit as a victim versus being like- Yes
"Okay, I've got this." Yes. Group text. Group texts. Easy to get trapped in. Yep. The routine of the day-to-day, that could go to comfort, but just, like, routines can kind of trap us sometimes. Yeah. And same with the status quo, like the way things have always been or how they should be. Right. I like to say we should be change persisted instead of change resistant.
Yep. Catastrophizing we talked about. Habits. Mm-hmm. We get trapped in habits, good and bad. Yep. And you can flip and switch them too. You can. It only takes 20 days, right? Yep. We get trapped in communities- Mm-hmm ... um, where we feel comfortable. Maybe that's like schools, churches. Extracurriculars.
Extracurricular activities. Um, I wrote this down only because I read the book Cultish a few years ago. Okay. By cults. Yeah. And, and cults are... It's not always the documentary cults. Right. Like, cults can be a lot of things. Yep. Addiction, things that we become addicted to, whether that's our devices- Diet Coke.
I had a, I mean, I drank a ton of Diet Coke for a spurt of time- ... and then I was like, "This may not be good for me." Yep. Um, so whatever that is. Limitations, right? Like, we've, that's kinda like boundaries. Mm-hmm. Um, norms, thoughts, advocacy. So, I mean, all of those things are, like, very common. Yeah. And I could raise my hand and tell a story about every time I felt trapped- For every single one, yes
in every single one of those. Yep. I'm curious, do you have, like, where do you feel like your most, your peak trapped era was? Oh. Do you think it was the high school? That's a good question. The high school to college? I don't know, because I don't know if it was the high school to college or if it was, like, the right after college when- Yeah
like, I was feeling the, like, pressure to live a adult life- Right ... whatever that means. Right. Um, but I think, I don't know. It was, it had to have been one of those two. Mine was definitely the competition piece- Okay ... and everything that kinda unraveled thereafter. Yeah, well, your business was dependent upon it, so-
um, makes sense. It was one of those things of, like, I, I really kind of burned it down and built it back up- Mm-hmm ... personally and professionally because the professional had a lot of personal repercussions. Mm-hmm. And it was, it was a lot but it was also very freeing. Yeah. So what I hope people take away from this conversation about feeling trapped, however we feel trapped in any, any point in time, that there is always a path forward.
Yes. Um, so I think first just in kind of getting unstuck is acknowledging that it's hard. Yeah. Change is really, really hard. Change is hard. It is going to feel hard. It will never feel easy. Yep. Um, but there is always a path. And it's scary. It is so scary. Like, it's, 'cause when you're changing, you're jumping into the unknown.
Yes. And there's nothing more scary than, like, just jumping into an abyss of, like, what-ifs. Right. Yes. Yeah, and, like, I mean, you become untrapped, but the flip side of trapped- Right ... is a lot of other things. Right, because you're thinking the what if, what if something happens in the future, or you're thinking what if I did this in the past, like maybe I wouldn't- Right
be in this situation, and that's a really dangerous cycle to be in. And it gets back to that quote you were talking about, too- It does, yes ... of, like, the present being the most powerful. Mm-hmm. So it's really of standing in the present moment and saying, "Well, where do I wanna go, forward or backwards?" Yep.
And how will that- And I think it's also, like, acknowledging that change to get untrapped is it could be small. Yes. Like, it could be something as simple as I don't feel like cooking dinner today, I'm gonna break my routine and order carryout. Yep. Great. For me, it was sitting on an airplane and a girlfriend being like, "I can't believe you're still drinking Diet Coke" and I said, "You know what?
I'm done." And- Right. I mean, good for you. That's a, that's a hard one to break just like that. Well, she had said it, like, 20 times. Okay, well And it was ... And I guess, like, in my subconscious, and I think that is, this is another good point, is sometimes, like, something sits with us- Right ... in our j- in our trapped.
Yep. And we, we sit on it and we stew and we think, and sometimes it's just, like, that one little thing and it's like, okay. Yeah. Watch me. Right. No, exactly. Well, that's the Gemini energy, too. Yeah. It's like the people telling you you shouldn't do something, and you're like, "Ha, ha." Yeah. Watch me go. Did your algorithm tell you that?
Yeah. Well, my algorithm right now, I'm just waiting for, like, a revolution or something. I don't know what we're waiting for, but So knowledge, right? Yes. Knowledge is power. And then the plan. Like, you have to have a plan. Yeah. To get unstuck, you have to have a plan. Mm-hmm. And what's on the other side could be incredible- Yeah
but you may never know if you stay trapped. Right. That's the scariest thing. Um, so I think reinvention is exciting. Yes. It doesn't scare me anymore. Yes. Only because I think I've done it so many times, but I do think there are these moments of feeling trapped, whether it's for, like, our family members, our life- Mm-hmm
where we live, um, changes, right? Yep. Like, economically, contractually, all of these things that feel very out of our control. Mm-hmm. It's easy to feel trapped and tied to those things. Yes. And that is, is frustrating. It is, yeah. And sometimes you just crash out. And that's fine, too. I crash out. Yeah. I crash out, you crash out.
We crash out. We all crash out. Everyone crashes out. Um, I did have a quote from Trash the Trophies- Okay ... that I actually brought with me. Um, which I don't, I don't read my books regularly. But I did go to this for context the other day because I think there was someone that had posted something and you were like, "I think this would be really helpful."
Oh, yep. So I w- I didn't mean to go to this section, but I did and it, I knew we were talking about this, and I just want you to hear this little sentence. Okay. I'm ready. "We often stay involved with situations, people, and things for way too long because we are fearful of the unknown and because questioning the norm is exhausting.
What if we consciously diverted our instincts to be excited about the opportunity for creating something new?" Check in with your emotions. Ask yourself the tough questions about why people linger in discomfort. The people and things that matter will still be with you even after you choose to stop riding roller coasters, literally and metaphorically.
Yeah. And I th- I was like, "Oh my gosh," like we were literally talking about being trapped- Yeah ... in Trash the Trophies. And I mean, we talk about it in Handle the Horrible. There's just been so many instances, and I don't think people walk around every day being like, "I have been trapped in like 85 different ways- Right
and found my way out." Right. I want people to talk more about how they feel trapped. Right, or things that they can do to get- Untrapped ... untrapped. Unstuck, reinvent. Yes. Um, I think we can build community in that. Yeah. Do you agree? Absolutely. Okay. Well, I appreciate you sharing- Yeah ... so much insight today.
Listeners, if you made it this far, thank you, because nobody listens to Chasta, but hopefully you did for a little bit today. If you're feeling trapped, or if you've ever felt trapped, or you've ever gotten untrapped, unstuck, reinvented, we would love to hear about it. We can build so much community by sharing these stories that are really hard that we all go through and experience.
Subscribe, stay tuned for future episodes, and we'll look forward to seeing you back here on Nobody Listens to Chasta. I feel like