Introduction
---
[00:00:00]
Joachim Schreiner: Once you have defined the agent and you have tested [00:00:03] the behavior, they don't get ill. They don't strike, ~uh, they ~[00:00:06] they continuously behave the same they don't have [00:00:09] a bad morning. They do what you want.
Joachim Schreiner: You [00:00:12] copy you paste you scale
Raul: [00:00:15] Welcome everyone, ~uh, ~to the revenue brothers today. ~Uh, ~[00:00:18] unfortunately ~uh, ~this is the first revenue brothers episode [00:00:21] without Toni. Toni got sick, ~uh, ~on short [00:00:24] notice. ~Uh, ~however, we didn't want to postpone this because we have a very special [00:00:27] guest today. One of the most [00:00:30] accomplished revenue leaders in basically the DACH region.
Raul: ~Uh, and ~I've [00:00:33] been chasing him for about a month or two, and I'm really happy [00:00:36] to do this today with him, and that's why, ~uh, we, ~we and Toni decided to do [00:00:39] this episode anyways. ~Uh, ~I have with me Joachim [00:00:42] Schreiner, who is the CRO at Parloa, ~um, ~and ~I, ~[00:00:45] I was at an event of theirs, ~uh, ~about three weeks ago, The [00:00:48] Wave, and big recommendation, you should go there if they ever do this [00:00:51] again.
Raul: ~And, um, Uh, got to, to, to, to invite him to this and, and, uh, gracefully he agreed. ~And so we have with me now, [00:00:54] Joachim, ~uh, ~Joachim, why don't you introduce us yourself to our listeners?
Meet Joachim Schreiner
---
Joachim Schreiner: [00:00:57] Thank you very much, Raul. ~Um, ~first of all, all the best for [00:01:00] Toni. ~Um, ~I hope he's getting well soon. ~Um, ~looking forward [00:01:03] to meet him next time. ~Um, ~when it comes to my [00:01:06] person, ~um, ~62 year old, father of four, [00:01:09] married, with pretty conservative [00:01:12] values. I'll believe in family, in [00:01:15] trust, in loyalty, [00:01:18] honesty, but also believe into passion.
Joachim Schreiner: ~Um, ~We can [00:01:21] only do things good if we are passionate about it [00:01:24] and ~um ~Joined Parloa a year [00:01:27] ago as their worldwide chief revenue officer [00:01:30] Before that I was the ceo of salesforce [00:01:33] germany for almost 16 and a half years [00:01:36] and then probably a lot of things that [00:01:39] Nobody's interested anymore before that.
Raul: There is a lot [00:01:42] though. ~Uh, and, and, ~and I can also see you're in a lot of boards ~and, ~and also [00:01:45] doing a little bit of angling, investing. ~Uh, ~SaaS seems to be [00:01:48] your sweet spot though. Am I right?
Joachim Schreiner: [00:01:51] Yeah, I like technology ~um, ~actually ~i'm a ~i'm [00:01:54] a Born programmer. I was educated [00:01:57] as a programmer. ~Um, ~so I like it. I like [00:02:00] technology. ~Um, I, ~I'm convinced about [00:02:03] speed and using technology [00:02:06] to, ~uh, ~gain opportunities. [00:02:09] I'm obviously seeing the [00:02:12] risk, but I'm on the opportunity side and probably that's [00:02:15] why I'm ~in ~more like the revenue side and not ~in the, ~in the lawyer [00:02:18] or security side.
Joachim Schreiner: ~Um, but that said. Um, ~yes, I [00:02:21] believe SaaS is giving us opportunity to [00:02:24] gain speed, to win opportunities, to [00:02:27] faster develop and [00:02:30] therefore be ahead of the competition.
Raul: ~Mm hmm. ~And [00:02:33] obviously with Parloa, you joined one of the front runners, [00:02:36] especially in our region, but worldwide, ~yeah. ~How come ~you, ~[00:02:39] you decided to join forces? You've been with Parallel War for about a year now [00:02:42] or I guess a little under a year. ~Um, ~[00:02:45] and I'm sure you had a lot of different options.
Raul: So what made you choose [00:02:48] this? Is there anything that changed where you're like, Oh, actually I'm really [00:02:51] interested in this AI game now.
The Future of Conversational AI
---
Joachim Schreiner: As I said, I'm [00:02:54] absolutely a fan of new involving technologies. [00:02:57] When I joined Salesforce software as a service later [00:03:00] known as probably cloud, ~uh, ~became a topic [00:03:03] and became public and I wanted to be frontrunner with that, [00:03:06] and when I left Salesforce, I was looking for the next big [00:03:09] opportunity.
Joachim Schreiner: And a hundred percent believed [00:03:12] into. Conversational AI and, and, ~um, ~[00:03:15] AI and in special conversational AI [00:03:18] is the next big shift when it comes to [00:03:21] gain consumers, to gain back trust of [00:03:24] consumers, to get back, ~um, ~the [00:03:27] belief that companies are interested into their [00:03:30] customers and want to grow with their [00:03:33] customers.
Joachim Schreiner: And there's plenty of [00:03:36] companies. They were talking about bots, [00:03:39] but I only see two companies in the world, like [00:03:42] the Sarah in the U S and Palo in [00:03:45] Europe that are not going into the bot [00:03:48] games and want to play a question answer [00:03:51] game ~with, ~with customer support. ~Uh, ~what those two [00:03:54] companies want to do is they want to build conversations.
Joachim Schreiner: They want to [00:03:57] build human like conversations. They want to [00:04:00] stop defecting. They want to open up. Bring [00:04:03] back the telephone number to your webpage, get into [00:04:06] contact with your customer, get your customers better [00:04:09] known, ~uh, ~as a connection to my former job, [00:04:12] store all this data into your CRM system [00:04:15] and know more about your customer ~and, and, ~and support your customer [00:04:18] better. ~We like, ~the one thing that we want [00:04:21] to achieve is that we build [00:04:24] a personal agent for each of the consumers, for each of [00:04:27] the companies, so that you have a feeling when you [00:04:30] call one of your companies that you are a [00:04:33] customer of, they have a personal concierge for you.
Raul: [00:04:36] first time to do an actual live [00:04:39] call, ~uh, ~with the software, ~uh, ~at the Wave. And, ~um, ~I [00:04:42] was quite impressed by ~the, ~the level of detail you went ~into, in, in, ~into [00:04:45] there as well. And I also looked into ~the, the, ~the backend of the tool. [00:04:48] It didn't occur to me yet that that would be kind of the [00:04:51] start of a, I would say conversation as you call [00:04:54] it.
Raul: ~Um, ~so how does that work? ~And, ~and without going too much into the [00:04:57] technical details here, but what's the vision there? Is it [00:05:00] that, ~Uh, ~basically this is going to be one agent that's [00:05:03] going to be with me and every touch point that I have. And, ~uh, ~it's [00:05:06] the start of a conversation. ~Uh, ~is that how I can understand it?
Building a Customer-Centric Experience
---
Joachim Schreiner: What we want [00:05:09] to help customers are, we want to have our [00:05:12] customers is to create the best [00:05:15] customer experience for their customers. [00:05:18] And you don't want to sit in too long. [00:05:21] Waiting lines, you don't want to hear ugly music. [00:05:24] You want to answer these stupid questions If you want to do [00:05:27] revenue press one if you want to do that You [00:05:30] want a conversation you want to talk you want to leave [00:05:33] information?
Joachim Schreiner: ~Uh, ~you you might be wanna [00:05:36] be Reminded that the [00:05:39] telephone number that you just call is not on file [00:05:42] with that company So this company might have an old [00:05:45] telephone number of you There's so many things that you can [00:05:48] do and it's not just service Service is the first [00:05:51] industry that gets disrupted completely, but it's [00:05:54] also sales Or it is, ~um, ~[00:05:57] holding customer, becoming part of the customer [00:06:00] journey. ~Um, ~think about you have a loyalty club [00:06:03] and the loyalty club calls you regularly and [00:06:06] asking for what do you want, what do you need? ~Uh, ~anything that I can [00:06:09] help with. So there's so many things [00:06:12] that in future will happen through conversational AI. [00:06:15] The opportunity is unlimited and we're just [00:06:18] seeing the first piece of an iceberg now.[00:06:21]
Raul: This is very interesting. So something [00:06:24] I very much believe in for even [00:06:27] sales, but especially for customer success is [00:06:30] understanding. understanding where the customer is [00:06:33] at at any given moment and then acting on it. [00:06:36] However, what typically happens in customer success departments is [00:06:39] that you lack the capacity to act on all these trigger points.
Raul: ~Um, and, and ~[00:06:42] if you had, ~uh, ~someone who would do that on your behalf and you would have an [00:06:45] understanding of these, ~um, ~you would maybe be able ~to, ~to [00:06:48] reach the customer at certain spots, ~uh, ~much faster [00:06:51] without, ~uh, ~having, ~especially ~to wait for a week until someone takes a phone in their hand [00:06:54] and maybe the opportunity has passed.
Raul: Is that [00:06:57] sort of how I can imagine it? Do you see also a customer
Joachim Schreiner: I [00:07:00] think this is pretty close. And ~if you, if I take your example, ~if you [00:07:03] imagine the human customer success person [00:07:06] is the supervisor of those concierge [00:07:09] agents. ~Yeah. ~So if the concierge agents feels this [00:07:12] is not an ethical communication that we should [00:07:15] have, like someone is calling and, ~um, ~it doesn't feel [00:07:18] good.
Joachim Schreiner: Maybe a human is better. And you, you pass [00:07:21] it further on to. Your human [00:07:24] supervisor ~Um, ~if you're not 100 [00:07:27] sure what is the right answer ~you might not even pass it further to your human supervisor ~You might open [00:07:30] a second call and ask your supervisor ~or ~what to do [00:07:33] Without leaving the other person. ~Um In a, in a whole line or app, just being very transparent, ~[00:07:36] think what we really can create is a user [00:07:39] experience where you as a customer [00:07:42] have the experience that companies are [00:07:45] interested into your input.
Joachim Schreiner: They want to listen, [00:07:48] and this is one of the most important things [00:07:51] that I believe leads into increased [00:07:54] net promoter score, increased revenue, [00:07:57] and increased loyalty, is [00:08:00] if I believe this company has listened to what I [00:08:03] want.
Raul: This is so interesting. This is also a perspective that I [00:08:06] haven't thought about, even though it's very logical, is [00:08:09] that a bot can talk to me and a [00:08:12] customer and 100 other customers at the same time [00:08:15] and even get my input for that [00:08:18] call as needed, which typically a [00:08:21] human can't do, or otherwise they would like listen with one ear and then [00:08:24] talk, ask me a question as a supervisor with another ear.
Raul: ~Um, That's a very interesting one. ~Do [00:08:27] you see other fields
Joachim Schreiner: can I, can I [00:08:30] correct you? I don't believe a bot can do. [00:08:33] I believe you need to create an agent. [00:08:36] A bot is kind of stupid [00:08:39] technology that is built for a certain [00:08:42] thing. ~Uh, ~very, ~um, ~deterministic in what it can say and [00:08:45] not say, ~um, ~an AI agent [00:08:48] can react on what you [00:08:51] do. An AI agent can react on [00:08:54] you're in a conversation.
Joachim Schreiner: And [00:08:57] It rings your doorbell [00:09:00] rings and you say to the ai agent. Hold on I need to [00:09:03] go to the door and the ai [00:09:06] agent says no problem. I'm gonna stay here [00:09:09] Let me know when you're back and you're coming [00:09:12] back and say, ~um ~Remind me what was the last question you did [00:09:15] and the air Agent is reminding me. What is the [00:09:18] next information we need in order to ~I don't know ~book you a [00:09:21] flight Find you the right hotel work on your [00:09:24] cancellation, whatever it is.
Joachim Schreiner: Yeah So it's [00:09:27] really a conversation where the bot understands what [00:09:30] you do. ~Yeah, the doc In the background is, is, is, um, making noises. ~The AI bot can react on [00:09:33] that and say, do you need some time to get your [00:09:36] dog under control, things like that [00:09:39] will happen. So it really feels like a human [00:09:42] conversation. ~Um, ~but [00:09:45] it is not pushing the pressure on the other side.[00:09:48]
Joachim Schreiner: To, on humans to work with that [00:09:51] amount of information that now comes [00:09:54] AI agents will be able to handle ~any amount of agents, uh, ~any amount of [00:09:57] information, ~sorry, ~without becoming stressed [00:10:00] without becoming symptoms [00:10:03] of burnout. [00:10:06] What we can do with those, we can collect information, [00:10:09] we can cluster information and then present the [00:10:12] information as a clustered information tool [00:10:15] to humans to take decisions and that's [00:10:18] what humans then gonna do.
Joachim Schreiner: And then [00:10:21] react on what is needed. [00:10:24] So a very different world that will come up, [00:10:27] a world that is built on [00:10:30] convenience.
Raul: So this seems to me to be a [00:10:33] very, ~uh, ~helpful definition of basically what the difference between [00:10:36] bot and agent is. So I think the term agent ~then, ~then [00:10:39] makes a lot more sense, ~uh, ~for what I talked about ~and, ~and going [00:10:42] forward. ~Um, And it's also very exciting, obviously. ~Do you see any [00:10:45] other fields that you or maybe someone else, maybe [00:10:48] Sierra or maybe someone else might be going into?
Raul: So you're [00:10:51] currently very much obviously on the customer facing side and customer [00:10:54] service. What else do you see? [00:10:57] Is there something on the roadmap? Maybe you can talk about it, or maybe do you [00:11:00] see someone else that's doing the same thing in another field? ~That's~
Joachim Schreiner: Look, ~there's, ~there's so [00:11:03] many opportunities like Salesforce has announced [00:11:06] agent force, very early stage, and who knows [00:11:09] better than me that it takes some time until from [00:11:12] Salesforce announced something until Salesforce is [00:11:15] live. But the idea of, ~um, ~an AI [00:11:18] selling person. Why not? [00:11:21] Yeah, it's ~very, ~very, very close to that, that [00:11:24] it's not just receiving calls but [00:11:27] doing calls and proactively [00:11:30] Going to customers and [00:11:33] remind them, ask them if they need [00:11:36] something, help them.
Joachim Schreiner: ~Um, ~and this is [00:11:39] service service. Why now it [00:11:42] is pretty easy to disrupt. It's a huge [00:11:45] market. If you believe, if you just consider how much [00:11:48] companies pays to BPOs and to [00:11:51] their own call center organizations for [00:11:54] agents. ~And if we are really, really honest. ~No one wants to do the agent job. Yeah, [00:11:57] it's not the job that you really like ~Uh, ~so [00:12:00] What we are doing is we're [00:12:03] taking the stupid word away from humans, [00:12:06] increasing their profile of becoming [00:12:09] supervisor, making their life even [00:12:12] better.
Joachim Schreiner: Yeah. ~Um, ~and we're just fulfilling ~the, ~[00:12:15] the growing need on agents that nobody wants to be, [00:12:18] we're running into a world where companies [00:12:21] don't find enough people to do the agent work, [00:12:24] like what we do is we [00:12:27] give you. A suite [00:12:30] where you can define the agent, you can [00:12:33] define the agent on what is the agent able to do, [00:12:36] which skills should the agent have.
Joachim Schreiner: And once you [00:12:39] have defined the agent and you have tested [00:12:42] the behavior, you can [00:12:45] scale the agent in an amount [00:12:48] as you want. They don't get ill. [00:12:51] They don't strike, ~uh, they ~they continuously [00:12:54] behave the same they don't have a bad morning. [00:12:57] Yeah, ~and and ~and become Loudly to your [00:13:00] customers they do what you want.
Joachim Schreiner: And if [00:13:03] you want someone that is more like a drill [00:13:06] agent Then you tell the agent you [00:13:09] are a drill agent Yeah Use a strong [00:13:12] voice or you tell the agent should be empathic [00:13:15] or it should be sympathetic or [00:13:18] you just tell You copy you paste [00:13:21] you scale.
Raul: crazy. ~And, and you also mentioned the, the Salesforce is going to the, uh, agent force, I think they named it right now. Um, ~
Salesforce Journey and Learnings
---
Raul: you spent 16, [00:13:24] 17 years at Salesforce building that up in Germany. Can we [00:13:27] go into that a little bit? Because that ~must be, ~must've been a very, very exciting [00:13:30] time. ~And, um, ~Also Salesforce, as big as it is now, obviously [00:13:33] wasn't always like that.
Raul: So can you go a minute ~into, ~into that story ~and, ~[00:13:36] and what did you learn there? What maybe changed for you during that time? I [00:13:39] think this was obviously your most significant point of your [00:13:42] career. ~Um, ~what has been your main learnings? What did you do to [00:13:45] make it grow so big in Germany?
Joachim Schreiner: It was an amazing [00:13:48] journey. ~Yeah. ~And I had one of my best times in my [00:13:51] life, ~uh, ~during Salesforce. ~And, um, I'm, I'm, ~I'm always going to be proud for [00:13:54] what Salesforce was doing, what we're doing together. ~Um, and it, yes, ~when I [00:13:57] joined ~with, ~there were 10 people in Germany. ~Yeah. ~So that was [00:14:00] Salesforce at the time when I joined, when I left, it was more [00:14:03] than 2000.
Joachim Schreiner: So obviously ~we, we, ~we went [00:14:06] through the. Pain of growing. ~Yeah, ~and [00:14:09] there's different pains of growing when it comes to [00:14:12] Hiring the right talents hiring talents [00:14:15] fast enough ~um, ~you get into a point that you have [00:14:18] to hire and ~you ~you go into the [00:14:21] pain of reduced quality [00:14:24] of Candidates because there is not enough [00:14:27] candidates on the market ~um, ~we went from [00:14:30] different perspective like [00:14:33] Who is salesforce?
Joachim Schreiner: Yeah, ~uh ~when we started [00:14:36] Companies like microsoft and sap said [00:14:39] software as a service is a trend and will go [00:14:42] away. ~It didn't~
Raul: Did they say that? I
Joachim Schreiner: Yeah, [00:14:45] yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I can I can show you the the yeah that that [00:14:48] was the the easy answer is ~uh ~Software as a service a trend [00:14:51] will go away
Raul: Wow.
Joachim Schreiner: ~uh, ~and then they came [00:14:54] up with hybrids technologies before they [00:14:57] finally came up.
Joachim Schreiner: ~And, and, ~and so we went from an underdog [00:15:00] of becoming an innovator [00:15:03] of becoming the safe choice. [00:15:06] Yeah, ~um ~after a couple ~of ~of years [00:15:09] We have the reputation on the market. You don't get fired [00:15:12] for choosing salesforce because it became the [00:15:15] market leader and it was a safe choice So [00:15:18] building a brand helping all that There's [00:15:21] so much learnings when it's how to build a brand [00:15:24] how to avoid mistakes ~on ~on hiring ~um ~[00:15:27] The one thing that ~i'm ~i'm doing differently now [00:15:30] is i'm betting on the partner ecosystem ~So ~Much [00:15:33] earlier than we started with Salesforce.
Joachim Schreiner: ~Um, ~I learned [00:15:36] that building it on a direct sales organization becomes very [00:15:39] expensive once you are. Growing [00:15:42] heavily and it's also limiting you [00:15:45] on the hiring market and the talents So what we're [00:15:48] doing differently a lot of things that we are taking my [00:15:51] learnings and bring it into palo Definitely different [00:15:54] is our approach to partner network We want to [00:15:57] build a partner first ecosystem and [00:16:00] not a direct sales first ecosystem [00:16:03] organization
Raul: Very, very relevant.
Partner Ecosystem Strategy
---
Raul: Also, I think for [00:16:06] our listeners, ~uh, ~I think partnerships is something we sometimes talk [00:16:09] about, but typically, and you just mentioned something we've [00:16:12] never talked about in 35 episodes, which is [00:16:15] partnerships also increasing your ability to hire people. ~Um, but ~maybe [00:16:18] you can go ~into, ~into a little bit more detail there because I think a lot of people might [00:16:21] actually consider that as well or have worked with partners, but [00:16:24] have been burned.
Raul: So maybe you know that not [00:16:27] everyone is, ~uh, ~has had good experiences with that, but you're betting on it quite [00:16:30] strongly. Why is that? What have you maybe learned and [00:16:33] how are you doing it? What's the big deal here?
Joachim Schreiner: ~look ~We all have been [00:16:36] burned on partnerships ~Yeah, ~not every partnership will be a [00:16:39] good partnership and we know that from private lives I think [00:16:42] 40 percent of all marriages get [00:16:45] divorced ~In ~in germany. ~Yeah, ~so ~It also ~in private life [00:16:48] partnership is nothing that you have a guarantee will work [00:16:51] with every partner But I think if you build [00:16:54] the right idea If you set a strong [00:16:57] tone If you educate your [00:17:00] ecosystem around we Are 100 [00:17:03] percent behind that idea.
Joachim Schreiner: ~Um, and, and ~we said [00:17:06] KPIs, like we're expecting partner [00:17:09] ecosystem to deliver 30 percent of our [00:17:12] business by leads. At the same time, we [00:17:15] commit to give 90 percent of our [00:17:18] business to the partner ecosystem to implement. [00:17:21] So for every one opportunity that partners bring [00:17:24] us, we are committing to give three to the ecosystem. [00:17:27] That commitment allows them [00:17:30] to invest. ~Yeah.~
Raul: So how does the math work there? Does that mean that [00:17:33] basically you need to bring in two deals for [00:17:36] yourself? Self sourced for every deal that a partner brings you so you're [00:17:39] able to feed the ecosystem. [00:17:42] Okay, that's uh,
Joachim Schreiner: So look, look, [00:17:45] no, it's not very bold. ~Uh, ~we've taken our [00:17:48] pipeline and we have set definitions. [00:17:51] And as I said, I'm expecting 30 percent of [00:17:54] pipeline from partners. So we're building a growth [00:17:57] department that we're expecting 50 percent of [00:18:00] pipeline to come from. We're expecting 30 percent of the [00:18:03] pipeline to be delivered.
Joachim Schreiner: By self [00:18:06] prospecting of the AE, we're also expecting [00:18:09] marketing to deliver inbound leads through campaigns [00:18:12] and thought leadership and events and those [00:18:15] things. So we have a very clear structure [00:18:18] and what we definitely don't do, we [00:18:21] don't build professional services in [00:18:24] house to deliver more than 10 percent [00:18:27] of what we sell. [00:18:30] So we are in the [00:18:33] situation that we need to give 90 [00:18:36] percent to the market. And even if the opportunity is [00:18:39] self, ~um, ~detected by an AE, [00:18:42] we don't have the resources for [00:18:45] all of the opportunities that ~we, ~we [00:18:48] created ourself to implement. So ~it's, ~it's [00:18:51] a way to build the ecosystem, to give [00:18:54] financial, ~to ~Support for the ecosystem ~and ~and build on their [00:18:57] commitment.
Joachim Schreiner: They have my commitment that they will get [00:19:00] the deals ~um ~to implement [00:19:03] and ~um ~I need their commitment to grow and that's [00:19:06] how we also solve the hiring problem as you said [00:19:09] It's not that I need to hire all of the aes all [00:19:12] of the ses all of the implementation [00:19:15] pieces ~um ~We're building teams, we [00:19:18] agree on how we're going to go to market, what is the [00:19:21] industry, what is the use case, what is ~the, ~the approach together, [00:19:24] and then we invest together and then we run that [00:19:27] path.
Raul: You just talked about ecosystem building and I [00:19:30] think, ~I just, ~I personally love that, to be honest. ~that you, ~[00:19:33] that you come with, obviously having with a [00:19:36] big, ~uh, ~wide shoulders ~from, ~from your experience at Salesforce. And [00:19:39] you've built that up before. I think very few people in Germany or [00:19:42] in Dach have, and very few people.
Raul: Kind of [00:19:45] have an idea of how to do that and even have that ambition level. I think a lot of [00:19:48] people, ~um, maybe you ~would ~even ~shy away from thinking like that because they [00:19:51] wouldn't know ~how to ~how to do that at all. ~Right? ~And ~it's ~it's difficult. ~And, um, ~I know [00:19:54] companies who have worked with who've tried, ~uh, ~but maybe haven't [00:19:57] tried ~kind of ~with a partner approach, or maybe haven't actually [00:20:00] gone to the right scope.
Raul: ~Can you ~can you maybe talk a little bit more about that? So [00:20:03] what is it when you say we're building an ecosphere? What [00:20:06] does that mean to you? And what has worked really well? [00:20:09] What have been your learnings there?
Joachim Schreiner: So [00:20:12] number one, you have to walk the talk. [00:20:15] It is not just me saying we are now [00:20:18] partner first, ~nah, nah, nah. ~You also have to show. So how do you show? [00:20:21] We've just hired Dorothy, ~uh, in, ~in the U [00:20:24] S and she was leading partnership [00:20:27] manager with Amazon, ~uh, ~with Stripe. ~So ~she [00:20:30] has a huge experience on how to build partnerships, [00:20:33] how to ~relation, ~build partner relationships, ~um, ~from companies that [00:20:36] are much, much bigger than we are today.
Joachim Schreiner: But [00:20:39] our aim is we hire now the people for [00:20:42] the state that we want to be in two, three, four [00:20:45] years. ~Um, ~and that sends a message to the market. [00:20:48] If you hire those north star [00:20:51] employees that that gives [00:20:54] an idea Dorothy is the first [00:20:57] svp that I have hired. So i've not [00:21:00] hired an svp in sales. I've not hired an svp [00:21:03] In in in pre sales not in growth [00:21:06] not in delivery.
Joachim Schreiner: The first svp that i've [00:21:09] hired is dorothy to make [00:21:12] And the commercial department, yeah, to, to make it [00:21:15] sure that everybody understands this [00:21:18] part and then the line thing is top of mind for [00:21:21] us. We want to build our success. [00:21:24] On an ecosystem we want to grow together [00:21:27] with our customers and our partners It is not [00:21:30] just us.
Joachim Schreiner: We can't be successful without [00:21:33] the help of the partners So it is those [00:21:36] messages that you need to send to the market saying [00:21:39] we're taking that serious
Raul: I see you're very much about [00:21:42] commitment there and you're very much about [00:21:45] being taken seriously, right? ~This is a, this is a big thing there.~
Joachim Schreiner: I believe [00:21:48] into being authentic and people see if you [00:21:51] commit something it's going to happen. So [00:21:54] probably comes back to [00:21:57] my relatively conservative set of [00:22:00] values You ~Um, ~I believe into an handshake. [00:22:03] I believe into, ~uh, ~a word. [00:22:06] I believe into, hey, if I said we're gonna do that, [00:22:09] we'll make it. And then to prove it ~with, ~with the [00:22:12] right investments.
Joachim Schreiner: ~And ~believe me, there is [00:22:15] probably people that I could have hired [00:22:18] at a lower level, at a lower price. That's not [00:22:21] the thing. ~betting here, ~we're hiring the best. [00:22:24] Dorothy was the best, so we hired Dorothy.
Raul: I love [00:22:27] that. She was the best. We hired her [00:22:30] period. ~Um, ~and I love that approach as well. ~Like ~if you have the means ~and, ~and [00:22:33] you're in a quite unique or quite rare [00:22:36] situation like you're in right now, why not? ~Right. If you, ~if you can do it, ~um, ~[00:22:39] maybe not everyone has that opportunity, but maybe that is how [00:22:42] you can get there.
Raul: So maybe that should be the ambition level, right? ~Is ~get the best [00:22:45] people, get the strongest commitment possible. ~And your word actually. ~I think [00:22:48] I love that personally very much that you just said that, cause I think [00:22:51] this is something that has actually been lost a little bit in this [00:22:54] technological startup ecosphere.
Raul: There's, ~um, ~all kinds [00:22:57] of people being involved in the sphere we're in right now. ~And, um, ~not [00:23:00] everyone believes that, or at least everyone says they do, but ~they, ~[00:23:03] they don't really like, it's a very opportunistic area. ~And, um, ~[00:23:06] Just out of personal interest, what does that mean to you? And [00:23:09] you said that this is also something that's important to you for your career, [00:23:12] not just personally, ~um, ~being conservatives, your word means [00:23:15] something.
Raul: And what does that mean to you? Can you go a little bit more into that? ~How does, ~how has [00:23:18] that helped you?
Joachim Schreiner: I don't know whether it helps [00:23:21] me. ~Um, but I, but I, ~but I believe it is easy for other [00:23:24] people ~to, ~to understand how they work with me. [00:23:27] If I tell them how I'm built
Raul: Hmm.
Joachim Schreiner: [00:23:30] and that is the way I want to make it easy for other [00:23:33] people to work with me. And therefore I also want to [00:23:36] make it easy for companies to do business with Palua.[00:23:39]
Joachim Schreiner: So if you tell people what you [00:23:42] can expect. And you've been honest about that. You've been [00:23:45] transparent about that. ~Um, ~there is no surprises [00:23:48] in in the business And large [00:23:51] companies don't like surprises. They want a [00:23:54] safe choice They want innovation and a safe choice at the [00:23:57] same time. They want the best customer experience and a [00:24:00] safe choice ~Um, ~and that's what we're going to deliver by [00:24:03] transparency.
Joachim Schreiner: You build trust by [00:24:06] transparency ~Um, ~that's my my my strongest, ~uh ~[00:24:09] belief So Let's give [00:24:12] this transparency who we are what we [00:24:15] are why we are on the market and ~um Let's let's be the very ~[00:24:18] let's be very transparent about it because that's building trust [00:24:21] And companies that are looking for the cheapest [00:24:24] product will not select palua [00:24:27] companies that look for ~Um, ~I don't [00:24:30] know how to translate into english So [00:24:33] the product that can do everything [00:24:36] and the company that is developing every feature [00:24:39] immediately ~Uh, ~we won't be that Yeah, we are [00:24:42] focused on creating the best user [00:24:45] experience And creating not a risk [00:24:48] In operations for the large enterprises.
Joachim Schreiner: These [00:24:51] are the two things that we are providing and [00:24:54] it's very clear ~Um, and ~if you look for ~I don't know ~something that [00:24:57] you can install into your computer center. It's not [00:25:00] us We don't believe into private [00:25:03] cloud ~um ~Because it will just stop the speed that we can [00:25:06] develop if we can't deploy [00:25:09] Releases when we want to deploy releases ~um, so Openly~ saying [00:25:12] who you are what you can expect [00:25:15] Will lead to a very trustful [00:25:18] relationship.
Joachim Schreiner: That's what I believe into
Raul: You know, I can see more and more [00:25:21] why Parloa hired you, especially at the stage they're in right [00:25:24] now. I can see why this is really, ~um, ~something that [00:25:27] is going to get Parloa to a new level ~and, ~and also to be seen ~and, ~[00:25:30] and perceived as ~a, at ~a new level. ~And, um, ~I also liked what you [00:25:33] said in the beginning, which was, ~uh, ~I tell people right away [00:25:36] what to expect from me.
Raul: ~And, um, And, uh, this seems to be working quite well for you. ~So what is that? What is it ~to, ~to [00:25:39] work with you? What are, and looking maybe behind the [00:25:42] curtains, the people at Paraloa, how is your work with them? What [00:25:45] is your, they look like? I know you're a lot about enablement, [00:25:48] trusting people, empowering people.
Raul: ~How does that look like? ~
Empowerment and Company Culture
---
Raul: What can people [00:25:51] expect when they work with you?
Joachim Schreiner: And interestingly, ~you, ~[00:25:54] you have two things for him, enablement, empowerment. Yeah. [00:25:57] Something that we're just working on. We have so far [00:26:00] invested a lot into enablement at Palawa and a lot [00:26:03] of startups working into enablement. They don't work into [00:26:06] empowerment. ~Uh, ~and this was something that we just built. [00:26:09] If you empower people, you're building a [00:26:12] machine.
Joachim Schreiner: If you enable people, you just [00:26:15] educate them. If you empower them, you're building a [00:26:18] machine. As long as they are not empowered. Everybody is waiting [00:26:21] for a decision off. Whatever CEO, CFO, [00:26:24] CRO, once you have empowered them, [00:26:27] they start building their own energy, [00:26:30] their own passion, their own business. And ~that's, ~[00:26:33] that's what we're actually doing.
Joachim Schreiner: Yeah. ~Yeah. We're, we're, ~we're moving from [00:26:36] enablement to empowerment. We're moving from, ~um, ~[00:26:39] doing everything as an agency to make one customer happy, [00:26:42] to become an enterprise software company that doesn't [00:26:45] think in six deals, but in 6, 000 deals. How do [00:26:48] we get 6, 000 deals implemented in a month? [00:26:51] Very different thing ~than ~than implementing one or six [00:26:54] deals in a month ~So you start building these these things and when talking about and being transparent about that ~Implementing six deals a month is [00:26:57] not good enough.
Joachim Schreiner: It's not scalable enough ~Uh, it's it stopped growing help stop stopping us to grow um ~[00:27:00] People know what you expect. ~Um, ~is that always [00:27:03] easy? No, ~i'm a i'm a ~as your public can see i'm a very [00:27:06] direct person. ~Um, ~I Give [00:27:09] direct feedback. I want direct feedback. [00:27:12] I hire people only if I think I can learn from [00:27:15] them.
Joachim Schreiner: ~Um, I'm, not at the same time. ~I'm not arrogant. I think I can learn from every [00:27:18] person But I want to [00:27:21] understand from people when I interview the question that I always ask is what [00:27:24] can I learn from ~you? ~You We have to see how they [00:27:27] react. ~Um, ~so, that's the kind of [00:27:30] culture that we're building. Passionate people [00:27:33] that want to go and create [00:27:36] best and most performing company in the [00:27:39] world.
Joachim Schreiner: And want to create a [00:27:42] team Where all of your peers are like, [00:27:45] well, i've never seen such a great guy [00:27:48] in another company and when I joined [00:27:51] palor ~Um, ~I took my decision not based on the [00:27:54] product. ~I ~I knew the product is more than a grade [00:27:57] But I interviewed probably [00:28:00] at least one third of all employees to find out [00:28:03] Is that the amount of the started people that I want to work with?[00:28:06]
Joachim Schreiner: Is that the culture that I want to join? [00:28:09] I strongly believe if you start building this high [00:28:12] performance culture That everyone in the [00:28:15] organization is a superstar ~Um, ~the product will become the [00:28:18] best product on the market Anyway, ~yeah, I can I think ~if [00:28:21] you start with a super team, the product will become super [00:28:24] if you start with an average team ~You ~The product will become [00:28:27] average, even it was a great product before.
Joachim Schreiner: So [00:28:30] build a team, hire the right [00:28:33] people, ~um, empower, enable and ~empower people. ~Um, it's such a strong thing. ~That's how you build a [00:28:36] machine and then [00:28:39] not just do that for yourself, but bring that into your [00:28:42] ecosystem. Yeah. Like we, we [00:28:45] got Kinover. ~They, ~they build the [00:28:48] first Paloer only company, [00:28:51] Paloer only implementation company, consulting [00:28:54] company. ~Um, so ~help them ~to ~grow also, build a strategy with [00:28:57] them, how they can grow. ~Um, ~it's so much [00:29:00] fun building the organization. And if you [00:29:03] see the announcement of who now partners [00:29:06] with Paloer, it is like the who is who. [00:29:09] It is McKinsey, it's Accenture, it's Deloitte, [00:29:12] it's NDT, it's KPMG, it's [00:29:15] PWC, it's all of the mid size regional [00:29:18] partners.
Joachim Schreiner: They all understood [00:29:21] this thing was going to change the [00:29:24] world. Let's be on board. And at the same time, [00:29:27] they get the commitment. If you invest, you're [00:29:30] going to get projects to [00:29:33] implement ~for, ~for the people that you invested in.
Raul: ~uh, ~so ~there's, ~there's so much to [00:29:36] unpack there. ~Um, we we're trying to wrap it up, uh, in a, in a couple of minutes, but, um. ~You have a little bit of a [00:29:39] different approach to, I must have talked to about [00:29:42] 200 to 300 revenue leaders, ~uh, ~in this kind of [00:29:45] thing, or more about in detail about the thing. And, ~um, ~you have quite a ~unique, ~[00:29:48] unique approach to a couple of different areas.
Raul: And I find that very [00:29:51] inspiring. I think a lot of people will do as well. ~Is there. Maybe it's not one thing. ~We're never a product of [00:29:54] just one thing, especially if you've been around for a couple of years. But [00:29:57] is there a mentor you had, or is there something [00:30:00] that happened? ~Maybe you say, no, this is how I've been brought up.~
Raul: What made you, you, ~what, what changed, uh, what, ~what shaped you into this [00:30:03] person who believes so strongly into these things and then also can [00:30:06] execute them and bring that into an [00:30:09] organization. ~Um, and, ~and what can someone do to be like, Hey, I want to, I want to [00:30:12] also become kind of a fixture and I want to be someone who can [00:30:15] do these things.
Joachim Schreiner: ~So. ~most important thing [00:30:18] was ~the, the, for me ~that I accepted that I can learn [00:30:21] from everybody and that I'm [00:30:24] curious about. Everybody talking to me, learning, [00:30:27] building the network. ~Um, and ~yes, there are [00:30:30] mentors, coaches in my life that had a big [00:30:33] impact. ~Um, ~and I still have [00:30:36] those mentors and coaches and a network [00:30:39] around me that I can call and discuss [00:30:42] things ~at the same time, ~it helped me a lot to say, look.
Joachim Schreiner: I [00:30:45] do mistakes, and I do things wrong, [00:30:48] and I won't be the best ~in, ~in all of the [00:30:51] disciplines. And maybe I'm not the best in [00:30:54] any discipline. There's always a person that will [00:30:57] become better than me. ~Um, ~let's learn from those people. [00:31:00] Let's improve every day. I hate the [00:31:03] expression of satisfied or [00:31:06] zufrieden in Germany.
Joachim Schreiner: Because in my mindset [00:31:09] this Stops the passion to become [00:31:12] better. So if anybody asks me, are you satisfied? Are [00:31:15] you? Suffriden, I always say never [00:31:18] There's always things that we can improve [00:31:21] and, ~um, ~you need to be a bit of a self [00:31:24] confident and say, okay, I'm okay that I'm [00:31:27] not the best person in that, in that, in that, ~um, ~I [00:31:30] want to learn from others and, and create [00:31:33] that, that culture around you, [00:31:36] that learning and giving and receiving feedback [00:31:39] is the most gift that you [00:31:42] can get and give, ~um, ~honest feedback and, and, and [00:31:45] learning.
Joachim Schreiner: ~Yeah. And yeah.~
Raul: just a personal anecdote, you said something also I've never heard [00:31:48] anybody else say, ~um, ~nobody will see it, but behind me there's [00:31:51] a poster and Joachim can see it, I think, of a movie. [00:31:54] It's called Whiplash. I don't know if you know that movie. ~Um, but it's. ~Basically [00:31:57] my favorite movie in the world. And there is a phrase where [00:32:00] there's a music teacher and he says to a student, [00:32:03] there are no two words more harmful [00:32:06] in the English language than good job.
Raul: ~Um, ~which is [00:32:09] basically what you also just said. ~Uh, and, and ~he goes to a similar reasoning. [00:32:12] Now the movie also goes into a little bit more of a darker direction, [00:32:15] but I was always very inspired by that quote. ~Um, ~[00:32:18] I don't think you mean the same thing as that movie, but that just [00:32:21] reminded me of that. A lot of fascinating [00:32:24] things and I could keep going for a half an hour, but I would like to wrap it up here [00:32:27] just to keep the time short here.
Raul: ~Um, and, uh, always one last question. Cause, uh, ~so many [00:32:30] people would like to learn more from you and so many people would like to [00:32:33] also hear from you.
Final Thoughts and Advice for Founders
---
Raul: Be mentored, be coached by you, understand a bit [00:32:36] more, ~uh, ~what are the top two, three pieces of advice you can [00:32:39] give to founders and CROs, [00:32:42] people who want to grow something like a Salesforce or who [00:32:45] have aspirations to become something like a Parloa, two, [00:32:48] three things where you say like, man, this is really ~what I, ~what I would tell you and what to [00:32:51] focus on right now.
Raul: ~Mm hmm.~
Joachim Schreiner: one of the person that have inspired me most [00:32:54] is Mark Benioff, obviously. And [00:32:57] Mark gave me a couple of things that I will never [00:33:00] forget. And one of the things he said is, ~um, ~[00:33:03] people overestimate what they can do in one year. [00:33:06] They totally underestimate what they can do in a [00:33:09] decade. So to me is that build [00:33:12] a plan, be focused on execution. ~Um be ~be open [00:33:15] about what is the plan where do we go and then [00:33:18] execute against that be focused And and [00:33:21] being focused also means to defocus from [00:33:24] something else Allow people to [00:33:27] defocus ~Uh ~plenty of startups that I see [00:33:30] They add They continuously add more [00:33:33] focus. They never allow to defocus. And, [00:33:36] and if you don't defocus, if everything's important, [00:33:39] nothing is important.
Joachim Schreiner: So make sure everybody understands what's [00:33:42] really, really important. ~Um, ~you know, my [00:33:45] values, yeah. Trust, honesty, [00:33:48] transparency, ~um, ~that pays off. If you [00:33:51] become a partner, business will become [00:33:54] easier. ~Um, and, and, and, ~and this one learning. I've always said when I [00:33:57] started a new job and I haven't started too often a new job because [00:34:00] I Tend to stay for a long time ~Um ~[00:34:03] is i'm going to quit the day.
Joachim Schreiner: I haven't learned [00:34:06] anything new and I think ~this this this ~This [00:34:09] general, I want to learn every day from, [00:34:12] and I want to learn from every person is [00:34:15] something ~that, ~that keeps you up
Raul: Very nice.
Conclusion
---
Raul: Joachim, I [00:34:18] must say, ~I'm, uh, ~I didn't know exactly where this would go in every direction because we [00:34:21] didn't have a lot of time to talk before. But, ~uh, ~I'm actually [00:34:24] inspired by ~a couple, ~a couple of things right now. I actually learned a little bit about this, so [00:34:27] I will keep going with my job for today.
Raul: I hope, ~uh, ~the people [00:34:30] at home ~are ~also learned something. ~Um, ~Joachim. Very happy [00:34:33] that you joined us. Maybe it will be the first of a couple that we [00:34:36] do because I actually have 10 more things I would like to talk to you [00:34:39] about. ~Um, ~thanks for taking the time. ~Uh, ~and ~uh, ~thanks for being with [00:34:42] us today.
Raul: Unfortunately, not Toni, but I'm pretty sure he will be very happy ~when he, ~when [00:34:45] he listens to this episode. Joachim.
Joachim Schreiner: once [00:34:48] again, best regards to Toni ~and, ~and I wish all of the best for his [00:34:51] health. And, ~uh, ~thank you for [00:34:54] having me here. It was a very amazing, [00:34:57] nice talk to you. ~Um, ~And as someone that got [00:35:00] interviewed, you can only give those answers that you've got [00:35:03] questions asked. So thank you for being [00:35:06] also a great partner in this interview.
Joachim Schreiner: And [00:35:09] yeah, if you and ~your, ~your [00:35:12] ecosystem have more topics to talk, [00:35:15] let's find time.
Raul: Yes, we will. ~We will for sure. ~Thanks [00:35:18] Joachim. Thanks
Joachim Schreiner: Thank you. Bye.
Raul: [00:35:21] Bye.
[00:35:24]
