Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Revolutionizing Customer Experiences with Conversational AI | Featuring Joachim Schreiner (CRO, Parloa)
In this episode of The Revenue Brothers, host Raul sits down with Joachim Schreiner, the Chief Revenue Officer of Parloa and a pioneer in conversational AI. Despite Toni’s absence, the show continues with a deep dive into the transformative potential of AI in customer interactions.
Joachim, who previously led Salesforce Germany for over 16 years, shares his insights on:
- Why conversational AI is the next big technological shift.
- How Parloa aims to redefine customer experiences by creating AI agents capable of human-like conversations.
- The importance of building trust, loyalty, and personalized interactions with customers.
- The ethical and technical boundaries between bots and true AI agents.
- The future of AI in sales, customer success, and service industries, and its potential to enhance—not replace—human roles.
From real-time customer support to proactive engagement, Joachim explains how conversational AI is not just a trend but a game-changer. Whether you're a SaaS enthusiast, a revenue leader, or curious about the future of AI, this episode is packed with actionable insights and forward-thinking perspectives.
🎧 Tune in to discover how technology is reshaping the way businesses connect with their customers!
Creators & Guests
What is Revenue Brothers?
What happens when a VC and a CEO come together?
– They nerd out about all things revenue. And they don’t always agree.
Raul Porojan of Project A Ventures and Toni Hohlbein of Growblocks are the Super Revenue Brothers. In every episode they dissect and debate current issues in B2B SaaS, and offer solutions on how to solve them
No matter if you’re an early-stage startup or a scaling unicorn – you’ll always learn something new.
Introduction
---
[00:00:00]
Joachim Schreiner: Once you have defined the agent and you have tested [00:00:03] the behavior, they don't get ill. They don't strike, ~uh, they ~[00:00:06] they continuously behave the same they don't have [00:00:09] a bad morning. They do what you want.
Joachim Schreiner: You [00:00:12] copy you paste you scale
Raul: [00:00:15] Welcome everyone, ~uh, ~to the revenue brothers today. ~Uh, ~[00:00:18] unfortunately ~uh, ~this is the first revenue brothers episode [00:00:21] without Toni. Toni got sick, ~uh, ~on short [00:00:24] notice. ~Uh, ~however, we didn't want to postpone this because we have a very special [00:00:27] guest today. One of the most [00:00:30] accomplished revenue leaders in basically the DACH region.
Raul: ~Uh, and ~I've [00:00:33] been chasing him for about a month or two, and I'm really happy [00:00:36] to do this today with him, and that's why, ~uh, we, ~we and Toni decided to do [00:00:39] this episode anyways. ~Uh, ~I have with me Joachim [00:00:42] Schreiner, who is the CRO at Parloa, ~um, ~and ~I, ~[00:00:45] I was at an event of theirs, ~uh, ~about three weeks ago, The [00:00:48] Wave, and big recommendation, you should go there if they ever do this [00:00:51] again.
Raul: ~And, um, Uh, got to, to, to, to invite him to this and, and, uh, gracefully he agreed. ~And so we have with me now, [00:00:54] Joachim, ~uh, ~Joachim, why don't you introduce us yourself to our listeners?
Meet Joachim Schreiner
---
Joachim Schreiner: [00:00:57] Thank you very much, Raul. ~Um, ~first of all, all the best for [00:01:00] Toni. ~Um, ~I hope he's getting well soon. ~Um, ~looking forward [00:01:03] to meet him next time. ~Um, ~when it comes to my [00:01:06] person, ~um, ~62 year old, father of four, [00:01:09] married, with pretty conservative [00:01:12] values. I'll believe in family, in [00:01:15] trust, in loyalty, [00:01:18] honesty, but also believe into passion.
Joachim Schreiner: ~Um, ~We can [00:01:21] only do things good if we are passionate about it [00:01:24] and ~um ~Joined Parloa a year [00:01:27] ago as their worldwide chief revenue officer [00:01:30] Before that I was the ceo of salesforce [00:01:33] germany for almost 16 and a half years [00:01:36] and then probably a lot of things that [00:01:39] Nobody's interested anymore before that.
Raul: There is a lot [00:01:42] though. ~Uh, and, and, ~and I can also see you're in a lot of boards ~and, ~and also [00:01:45] doing a little bit of angling, investing. ~Uh, ~SaaS seems to be [00:01:48] your sweet spot though. Am I right?
Joachim Schreiner: [00:01:51] Yeah, I like technology ~um, ~actually ~i'm a ~i'm [00:01:54] a Born programmer. I was educated [00:01:57] as a programmer. ~Um, ~so I like it. I like [00:02:00] technology. ~Um, I, ~I'm convinced about [00:02:03] speed and using technology [00:02:06] to, ~uh, ~gain opportunities. [00:02:09] I'm obviously seeing the [00:02:12] risk, but I'm on the opportunity side and probably that's [00:02:15] why I'm ~in ~more like the revenue side and not ~in the, ~in the lawyer [00:02:18] or security side.
Joachim Schreiner: ~Um, but that said. Um, ~yes, I [00:02:21] believe SaaS is giving us opportunity to [00:02:24] gain speed, to win opportunities, to [00:02:27] faster develop and [00:02:30] therefore be ahead of the competition.
Raul: ~Mm hmm. ~And [00:02:33] obviously with Parloa, you joined one of the front runners, [00:02:36] especially in our region, but worldwide, ~yeah. ~How come ~you, ~[00:02:39] you decided to join forces? You've been with Parallel War for about a year now [00:02:42] or I guess a little under a year. ~Um, ~[00:02:45] and I'm sure you had a lot of different options.
Raul: So what made you choose [00:02:48] this? Is there anything that changed where you're like, Oh, actually I'm really [00:02:51] interested in this AI game now.
The Future of Conversational AI
---
Joachim Schreiner: As I said, I'm [00:02:54] absolutely a fan of new involving technologies. [00:02:57] When I joined Salesforce software as a service later [00:03:00] known as probably cloud, ~uh, ~became a topic [00:03:03] and became public and I wanted to be frontrunner with that, [00:03:06] and when I left Salesforce, I was looking for the next big [00:03:09] opportunity.
Joachim Schreiner: And a hundred percent believed [00:03:12] into. Conversational AI and, and, ~um, ~[00:03:15] AI and in special conversational AI [00:03:18] is the next big shift when it comes to [00:03:21] gain consumers, to gain back trust of [00:03:24] consumers, to get back, ~um, ~the [00:03:27] belief that companies are interested into their [00:03:30] customers and want to grow with their [00:03:33] customers.
Joachim Schreiner: And there's plenty of [00:03:36] companies. They were talking about bots, [00:03:39] but I only see two companies in the world, like [00:03:42] the Sarah in the U S and Palo in [00:03:45] Europe that are not going into the bot [00:03:48] games and want to play a question answer [00:03:51] game ~with, ~with customer support. ~Uh, ~what those two [00:03:54] companies want to do is they want to build conversations.
Joachim Schreiner: They want to [00:03:57] build human like conversations. They want to [00:04:00] stop defecting. They want to open up. Bring [00:04:03] back the telephone number to your webpage, get into [00:04:06] contact with your customer, get your customers better [00:04:09] known, ~uh, ~as a connection to my former job, [00:04:12] store all this data into your CRM system [00:04:15] and know more about your customer ~and, and, ~and support your customer [00:04:18] better. ~We like, ~the one thing that we want [00:04:21] to achieve is that we build [00:04:24] a personal agent for each of the consumers, for each of [00:04:27] the companies, so that you have a feeling when you [00:04:30] call one of your companies that you are a [00:04:33] customer of, they have a personal concierge for you.
Raul: [00:04:36] first time to do an actual live [00:04:39] call, ~uh, ~with the software, ~uh, ~at the Wave. And, ~um, ~I [00:04:42] was quite impressed by ~the, ~the level of detail you went ~into, in, in, ~into [00:04:45] there as well. And I also looked into ~the, the, ~the backend of the tool. [00:04:48] It didn't occur to me yet that that would be kind of the [00:04:51] start of a, I would say conversation as you call [00:04:54] it.
Raul: ~Um, ~so how does that work? ~And, ~and without going too much into the [00:04:57] technical details here, but what's the vision there? Is it [00:05:00] that, ~Uh, ~basically this is going to be one agent that's [00:05:03] going to be with me and every touch point that I have. And, ~uh, ~it's [00:05:06] the start of a conversation. ~Uh, ~is that how I can understand it?
Building a Customer-Centric Experience
---
Joachim Schreiner: What we want [00:05:09] to help customers are, we want to have our [00:05:12] customers is to create the best [00:05:15] customer experience for their customers. [00:05:18] And you don't want to sit in too long. [00:05:21] Waiting lines, you don't want to hear ugly music. [00:05:24] You want to answer these stupid questions If you want to do [00:05:27] revenue press one if you want to do that You [00:05:30] want a conversation you want to talk you want to leave [00:05:33] information?
Joachim Schreiner: ~Uh, ~you you might be wanna [00:05:36] be Reminded that the [00:05:39] telephone number that you just call is not on file [00:05:42] with that company So this company might have an old [00:05:45] telephone number of you There's so many things that you can [00:05:48] do and it's not just service Service is the first [00:05:51] industry that gets disrupted completely, but it's [00:05:54] also sales Or it is, ~um, ~[00:05:57] holding customer, becoming part of the customer [00:06:00] journey. ~Um, ~think about you have a loyalty club [00:06:03] and the loyalty club calls you regularly and [00:06:06] asking for what do you want, what do you need? ~Uh, ~anything that I can [00:06:09] help with. So there's so many things [00:06:12] that in future will happen through conversational AI. [00:06:15] The opportunity is unlimited and we're just [00:06:18] seeing the first piece of an iceberg now.[00:06:21]
Raul: This is very interesting. So something [00:06:24] I very much believe in for even [00:06:27] sales, but especially for customer success is [00:06:30] understanding. understanding where the customer is [00:06:33] at at any given moment and then acting on it. [00:06:36] However, what typically happens in customer success departments is [00:06:39] that you lack the capacity to act on all these trigger points.
Raul: ~Um, and, and ~[00:06:42] if you had, ~uh, ~someone who would do that on your behalf and you would have an [00:06:45] understanding of these, ~um, ~you would maybe be able ~to, ~to [00:06:48] reach the customer at certain spots, ~uh, ~much faster [00:06:51] without, ~uh, ~having, ~especially ~to wait for a week until someone takes a phone in their hand [00:06:54] and maybe the opportunity has passed.
Raul: Is that [00:06:57] sort of how I can imagine it? Do you see also a customer
Joachim Schreiner: I [00:07:00] think this is pretty close. And ~if you, if I take your example, ~if you [00:07:03] imagine the human customer success person [00:07:06] is the supervisor of those concierge [00:07:09] agents. ~Yeah. ~So if the concierge agents feels this [00:07:12] is not an ethical communication that we should [00:07:15] have, like someone is calling and, ~um, ~it doesn't feel [00:07:18] good.
Joachim Schreiner: Maybe a human is better. And you, you pass [00:07:21] it further on to. Your human [00:07:24] supervisor ~Um, ~if you're not 100 [00:07:27] sure what is the right answer ~you might not even pass it further to your human supervisor ~You might open [00:07:30] a second call and ask your supervisor ~or ~what to do [00:07:33] Without leaving the other person. ~Um In a, in a whole line or app, just being very transparent, ~[00:07:36] think what we really can create is a user [00:07:39] experience where you as a customer [00:07:42] have the experience that companies are [00:07:45] interested into your input.
Joachim Schreiner: They want to listen, [00:07:48] and this is one of the most important things [00:07:51] that I believe leads into increased [00:07:54] net promoter score, increased revenue, [00:07:57] and increased loyalty, is [00:08:00] if I believe this company has listened to what I [00:08:03] want.
Raul: This is so interesting. This is also a perspective that I [00:08:06] haven't thought about, even though it's very logical, is [00:08:09] that a bot can talk to me and a [00:08:12] customer and 100 other customers at the same time [00:08:15] and even get my input for that [00:08:18] call as needed, which typically a [00:08:21] human can't do, or otherwise they would like listen with one ear and then [00:08:24] talk, ask me a question as a supervisor with another ear.
Raul: ~Um, That's a very interesting one. ~Do [00:08:27] you see other fields
Joachim Schreiner: can I, can I [00:08:30] correct you? I don't believe a bot can do. [00:08:33] I believe you need to create an agent. [00:08:36] A bot is kind of stupid [00:08:39] technology that is built for a certain [00:08:42] thing. ~Uh, ~very, ~um, ~deterministic in what it can say and [00:08:45] not say, ~um, ~an AI agent [00:08:48] can react on what you [00:08:51] do. An AI agent can react on [00:08:54] you're in a conversation.
Joachim Schreiner: And [00:08:57] It rings your doorbell [00:09:00] rings and you say to the ai agent. Hold on I need to [00:09:03] go to the door and the ai [00:09:06] agent says no problem. I'm gonna stay here [00:09:09] Let me know when you're back and you're coming [00:09:12] back and say, ~um ~Remind me what was the last question you did [00:09:15] and the air Agent is reminding me. What is the [00:09:18] next information we need in order to ~I don't know ~book you a [00:09:21] flight Find you the right hotel work on your [00:09:24] cancellation, whatever it is.
Joachim Schreiner: Yeah So it's [00:09:27] really a conversation where the bot understands what [00:09:30] you do. ~Yeah, the doc In the background is, is, is, um, making noises. ~The AI bot can react on [00:09:33] that and say, do you need some time to get your [00:09:36] dog under control, things like that [00:09:39] will happen. So it really feels like a human [00:09:42] conversation. ~Um, ~but [00:09:45] it is not pushing the pressure on the other side.[00:09:48]
Joachim Schreiner: To, on humans to work with that [00:09:51] amount of information that now comes [00:09:54] AI agents will be able to handle ~any amount of agents, uh, ~any amount of [00:09:57] information, ~sorry, ~without becoming stressed [00:10:00] without becoming symptoms [00:10:03] of burnout. [00:10:06] What we can do with those, we can collect information, [00:10:09] we can cluster information and then present the [00:10:12] information as a clustered information tool [00:10:15] to humans to take decisions and that's [00:10:18] what humans then gonna do.
Joachim Schreiner: And then [00:10:21] react on what is needed. [00:10:24] So a very different world that will come up, [00:10:27] a world that is built on [00:10:30] convenience.
Raul: So this seems to me to be a [00:10:33] very, ~uh, ~helpful definition of basically what the difference between [00:10:36] bot and agent is. So I think the term agent ~then, ~then [00:10:39] makes a lot more sense, ~uh, ~for what I talked about ~and, ~and going [00:10:42] forward. ~Um, And it's also very exciting, obviously. ~Do you see any [00:10:45] other fields that you or maybe someone else, maybe [00:10:48] Sierra or maybe someone else might be going into?
Raul: So you're [00:10:51] currently very much obviously on the customer facing side and customer [00:10:54] service. What else do you see? [00:10:57] Is there something on the roadmap? Maybe you can talk about it, or maybe do you [00:11:00] see someone else that's doing the same thing in another field? ~That's~
Joachim Schreiner: Look, ~there's, ~there's so [00:11:03] many opportunities like Salesforce has announced [00:11:06] agent force, very early stage, and who knows [00:11:09] better than me that it takes some time until from [00:11:12] Salesforce announced something until Salesforce is [00:11:15] live. But the idea of, ~um, ~an AI [00:11:18] selling person. Why not? [00:11:21] Yeah, it's ~very, ~very, very close to that, that [00:11:24] it's not just receiving calls but [00:11:27] doing calls and proactively [00:11:30] Going to customers and [00:11:33] remind them, ask them if they need [00:11:36] something, help them.
Joachim Schreiner: ~Um, ~and this is [00:11:39] service service. Why now it [00:11:42] is pretty easy to disrupt. It's a huge [00:11:45] market. If you believe, if you just consider how much [00:11:48] companies pays to BPOs and to [00:11:51] their own call center organizations for [00:11:54] agents. ~And if we are really, really honest. ~No one wants to do the agent job. Yeah, [00:11:57] it's not the job that you really like ~Uh, ~so [00:12:00] What we are doing is we're [00:12:03] taking the stupid word away from humans, [00:12:06] increasing their profile of becoming [00:12:09] supervisor, making their life even [00:12:12] better.
Joachim Schreiner: Yeah. ~Um, ~and we're just fulfilling ~the, ~[00:12:15] the growing need on agents that nobody wants to be, [00:12:18] we're running into a world where companies [00:12:21] don't find enough people to do the agent work, [00:12:24] like what we do is we [00:12:27] give you. A suite [00:12:30] where you can define the agent, you can [00:12:33] define the agent on what is the agent able to do, [00:12:36] which skills should the agent have.
Joachim Schreiner: And once you [00:12:39] have defined the agent and you have tested [00:12:42] the behavior, you can [00:12:45] scale the agent in an amount [00:12:48] as you want. They don't get ill. [00:12:51] They don't strike, ~uh, they ~they continuously [00:12:54] behave the same they don't have a bad morning. [00:12:57] Yeah, ~and and ~and become Loudly to your [00:13:00] customers they do what you want.
Joachim Schreiner: And if [00:13:03] you want someone that is more like a drill [00:13:06] agent Then you tell the agent you [00:13:09] are a drill agent Yeah Use a strong [00:13:12] voice or you tell the agent should be empathic [00:13:15] or it should be sympathetic or [00:13:18] you just tell You copy you paste [00:13:21] you scale.
Raul: crazy. ~And, and you also mentioned the, the Salesforce is going to the, uh, agent force, I think they named it right now. Um, ~
Salesforce Journey and Learnings
---
Raul: you spent 16, [00:13:24] 17 years at Salesforce building that up in Germany. Can we [00:13:27] go into that a little bit? Because that ~must be, ~must've been a very, very exciting [00:13:30] time. ~And, um, ~Also Salesforce, as big as it is now, obviously [00:13:33] wasn't always like that.
Raul: So can you go a minute ~into, ~into that story ~and, ~[00:13:36] and what did you learn there? What maybe changed for you during that time? I [00:13:39] think this was obviously your most significant point of your [00:13:42] career. ~Um, ~what has been your main learnings? What did you do to [00:13:45] make it grow so big in Germany?
Joachim Schreiner: It was an amazing [00:13:48] journey. ~Yeah. ~And I had one of my best times in my [00:13:51] life, ~uh, ~during Salesforce. ~And, um, I'm, I'm, ~I'm always going to be proud for [00:13:54] what Salesforce was doing, what we're doing together. ~Um, and it, yes, ~when I [00:13:57] joined ~with, ~there were 10 people in Germany. ~Yeah. ~So that was [00:14:00] Salesforce at the time when I joined, when I left, it was more [00:14:03] than 2000.
Joachim Schreiner: So obviously ~we, we, ~we went [00:14:06] through the. Pain of growing. ~Yeah, ~and [00:14:09] there's different pains of growing when it comes to [00:14:12] Hiring the right talents hiring talents [00:14:15] fast enough ~um, ~you get into a point that you have [00:14:18] to hire and ~you ~you go into the [00:14:21] pain of reduced quality [00:14:24] of Candidates because there is not enough [00:14:27] candidates on the market ~um, ~we went from [00:14:30] different perspective like [00:14:33] Who is salesforce?
Joachim Schreiner: Yeah, ~uh ~when we started [00:14:36] Companies like microsoft and sap said [00:14:39] software as a service is a trend and will go [00:14:42] away. ~It didn't~
Raul: Did they say that? I
Joachim Schreiner: Yeah, [00:14:45] yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I can I can show you the the yeah that that [00:14:48] was the the easy answer is ~uh ~Software as a service a trend [00:14:51] will go away
Raul: Wow.
Joachim Schreiner: ~uh, ~and then they came [00:14:54] up with hybrids technologies before they [00:14:57] finally came up.
Joachim Schreiner: ~And, and, ~and so we went from an underdog [00:15:00] of becoming an innovator [00:15:03] of becoming the safe choice. [00:15:06] Yeah, ~um ~after a couple ~of ~of years [00:15:09] We have the reputation on the market. You don't get fired [00:15:12] for choosing salesforce because it became the [00:15:15] market leader and it was a safe choice So [00:15:18] building a brand helping all that There's [00:15:21] so much learnings when it's how to build a brand [00:15:24] how to avoid mistakes ~on ~on hiring ~um ~[00:15:27] The one thing that ~i'm ~i'm doing differently now [00:15:30] is i'm betting on the partner ecosystem ~So ~Much [00:15:33] earlier than we started with Salesforce.
Joachim Schreiner: ~Um, ~I learned [00:15:36] that building it on a direct sales organization becomes very [00:15:39] expensive once you are. Growing [00:15:42] heavily and it's also limiting you [00:15:45] on the hiring market and the talents So what we're [00:15:48] doing differently a lot of things that we are taking my [00:15:51] learnings and bring it into palo Definitely different [00:15:54] is our approach to partner network We want to [00:15:57] build a partner first ecosystem and [00:16:00] not a direct sales first ecosystem [00:16:03] organization
Raul: Very, very relevant.
Partner Ecosystem Strategy
---
Raul: Also, I think for [00:16:06] our listeners, ~uh, ~I think partnerships is something we sometimes talk [00:16:09] about, but typically, and you just mentioned something we've [00:16:12] never talked about in 35 episodes, which is [00:16:15] partnerships also increasing your ability to hire people. ~Um, but ~maybe [00:16:18] you can go ~into, ~into a little bit more detail there because I think a lot of people might [00:16:21] actually consider that as well or have worked with partners, but [00:16:24] have been burned.
Raul: So maybe you know that not [00:16:27] everyone is, ~uh, ~has had good experiences with that, but you're betting on it quite [00:16:30] strongly. Why is that? What have you maybe learned and [00:16:33] how are you doing it? What's the big deal here?
Joachim Schreiner: ~look ~We all have been [00:16:36] burned on partnerships ~Yeah, ~not every partnership will be a [00:16:39] good partnership and we know that from private lives I think [00:16:42] 40 percent of all marriages get [00:16:45] divorced ~In ~in germany. ~Yeah, ~so ~It also ~in private life [00:16:48] partnership is nothing that you have a guarantee will work [00:16:51] with every partner But I think if you build [00:16:54] the right idea If you set a strong [00:16:57] tone If you educate your [00:17:00] ecosystem around we Are 100 [00:17:03] percent behind that idea.
Joachim Schreiner: ~Um, and, and ~we said [00:17:06] KPIs, like we're expecting partner [00:17:09] ecosystem to deliver 30 percent of our [00:17:12] business by leads. At the same time, we [00:17:15] commit to give 90 percent of our [00:17:18] business to the partner ecosystem to implement. [00:17:21] So for every one opportunity that partners bring [00:17:24] us, we are committing to give three to the ecosystem. [00:17:27] That commitment allows them [00:17:30] to invest. ~Yeah.~
Raul: So how does the math work there? Does that mean that [00:17:33] basically you need to bring in two deals for [00:17:36] yourself? Self sourced for every deal that a partner brings you so you're [00:17:39] able to feed the ecosystem. [00:17:42] Okay, that's uh,
Joachim Schreiner: So look, look, [00:17:45] no, it's not very bold. ~Uh, ~we've taken our [00:17:48] pipeline and we have set definitions. [00:17:51] And as I said, I'm expecting 30 percent of [00:17:54] pipeline from partners. So we're building a growth [00:17:57] department that we're expecting 50 percent of [00:18:00] pipeline to come from. We're expecting 30 percent of the [00:18:03] pipeline to be delivered.
Joachim Schreiner: By self [00:18:06] prospecting of the AE, we're also expecting [00:18:09] marketing to deliver inbound leads through campaigns [00:18:12] and thought leadership and events and those [00:18:15] things. So we have a very clear structure [00:18:18] and what we definitely don't do, we [00:18:21] don't build professional services in [00:18:24] house to deliver more than 10 percent [00:18:27] of what we sell. [00:18:30] So we are in the [00:18:33] situation that we need to give 90 [00:18:36] percent to the market. And even if the opportunity is [00:18:39] self, ~um, ~detected by an AE, [00:18:42] we don't have the resources for [00:18:45] all of the opportunities that ~we, ~we [00:18:48] created ourself to implement. So ~it's, ~it's [00:18:51] a way to build the ecosystem, to give [00:18:54] financial, ~to ~Support for the ecosystem ~and ~and build on their [00:18:57] commitment.
Joachim Schreiner: They have my commitment that they will get [00:19:00] the deals ~um ~to implement [00:19:03] and ~um ~I need their commitment to grow and that's [00:19:06] how we also solve the hiring problem as you said [00:19:09] It's not that I need to hire all of the aes all [00:19:12] of the ses all of the implementation [00:19:15] pieces ~um ~We're building teams, we [00:19:18] agree on how we're going to go to market, what is the [00:19:21] industry, what is the use case, what is ~the, ~the approach together, [00:19:24] and then we invest together and then we run that [00:19:27] path.
Raul: You just talked about ecosystem building and I [00:19:30] think, ~I just, ~I personally love that, to be honest. ~that you, ~[00:19:33] that you come with, obviously having with a [00:19:36] big, ~uh, ~wide shoulders ~from, ~from your experience at Salesforce. And [00:19:39] you've built that up before. I think very few people in Germany or [00:19:42] in Dach have, and very few people.
Raul: Kind of [00:19:45] have an idea of how to do that and even have that ambition level. I think a lot of [00:19:48] people, ~um, maybe you ~would ~even ~shy away from thinking like that because they [00:19:51] wouldn't know ~how to ~how to do that at all. ~Right? ~And ~it's ~it's difficult. ~And, um, ~I know [00:19:54] companies who have worked with who've tried, ~uh, ~but maybe haven't [00:19:57] tried ~kind of ~with a partner approach, or maybe haven't actually [00:20:00] gone to the right scope.
Raul: ~Can you ~can you maybe talk a little bit more about that? So [00:20:03] what is it when you say we're building an ecosphere? What [00:20:06] does that mean to you? And what has worked really well? [00:20:09] What have been your learnings there?
Joachim Schreiner: So [00:20:12] number one, you have to walk the talk. [00:20:15] It is not just me saying we are now [00:20:18] partner first, ~nah, nah, nah. ~You also have to show. So how do you show? [00:20:21] We've just hired Dorothy, ~uh, in, ~in the U [00:20:24] S and she was leading partnership [00:20:27] manager with Amazon, ~uh, ~with Stripe. ~So ~she [00:20:30] has a huge experience on how to build partnerships, [00:20:33] how to ~relation, ~build partner relationships, ~um, ~from companies that [00:20:36] are much, much bigger than we are today.
Joachim Schreiner: But [00:20:39] our aim is we hire now the people for [00:20:42] the state that we want to be in two, three, four [00:20:45] years. ~Um, ~and that sends a message to the market. [00:20:48] If you hire those north star [00:20:51] employees that that gives [00:20:54] an idea Dorothy is the first [00:20:57] svp that I have hired. So i've not [00:21:00] hired an svp in sales. I've not hired an svp [00:21:03] In in in pre sales not in growth [00:21:06] not in delivery.
Joachim Schreiner: The first svp that i've [00:21:09] hired is dorothy to make [00:21:12] And the commercial department, yeah, to, to make it [00:21:15] sure that everybody understands this [00:21:18] part and then the line thing is top of mind for [00:21:21] us. We want to build our success. [00:21:24] On an ecosystem we want to grow together [00:21:27] with our customers and our partners It is not [00:21:30] just us.
Joachim Schreiner: We can't be successful without [00:21:33] the help of the partners So it is those [00:21:36] messages that you need to send to the market saying [00:21:39] we're taking that serious
Raul: I see you're very much about [00:21:42] commitment there and you're very much about [00:21:45] being taken seriously, right? ~This is a, this is a big thing there.~
Joachim Schreiner: I believe [00:21:48] into being authentic and people see if you [00:21:51] commit something it's going to happen. So [00:21:54] probably comes back to [00:21:57] my relatively conservative set of [00:22:00] values You ~Um, ~I believe into an handshake. [00:22:03] I believe into, ~uh, ~a word. [00:22:06] I believe into, hey, if I said we're gonna do that, [00:22:09] we'll make it. And then to prove it ~with, ~with the [00:22:12] right investments.
Joachim Schreiner: ~And ~believe me, there is [00:22:15] probably people that I could have hired [00:22:18] at a lower level, at a lower price. That's not [00:22:21] the thing. ~betting here, ~we're hiring the best. [00:22:24] Dorothy was the best, so we hired Dorothy.
Raul: I love [00:22:27] that. She was the best. We hired her [00:22:30] period. ~Um, ~and I love that approach as well. ~Like ~if you have the means ~and, ~and [00:22:33] you're in a quite unique or quite rare [00:22:36] situation like you're in right now, why not? ~Right. If you, ~if you can do it, ~um, ~[00:22:39] maybe not everyone has that opportunity, but maybe that is how [00:22:42] you can get there.
Raul: So maybe that should be the ambition level, right? ~Is ~get the best [00:22:45] people, get the strongest commitment possible. ~And your word actually. ~I think [00:22:48] I love that personally very much that you just said that, cause I think [00:22:51] this is something that has actually been lost a little bit in this [00:22:54] technological startup ecosphere.
Raul: There's, ~um, ~all kinds [00:22:57] of people being involved in the sphere we're in right now. ~And, um, ~not [00:23:00] everyone believes that, or at least everyone says they do, but ~they, ~[00:23:03] they don't really like, it's a very opportunistic area. ~And, um, ~[00:23:06] Just out of personal interest, what does that mean to you? And [00:23:09] you said that this is also something that's important to you for your career, [00:23:12] not just personally, ~um, ~being conservatives, your word means [00:23:15] something.
Raul: And what does that mean to you? Can you go a little bit more into that? ~How does, ~how has [00:23:18] that helped you?
Joachim Schreiner: I don't know whether it helps [00:23:21] me. ~Um, but I, but I, ~but I believe it is easy for other [00:23:24] people ~to, ~to understand how they work with me. [00:23:27] If I tell them how I'm built
Raul: Hmm.
Joachim Schreiner: [00:23:30] and that is the way I want to make it easy for other [00:23:33] people to work with me. And therefore I also want to [00:23:36] make it easy for companies to do business with Palua.[00:23:39]
Joachim Schreiner: So if you tell people what you [00:23:42] can expect. And you've been honest about that. You've been [00:23:45] transparent about that. ~Um, ~there is no surprises [00:23:48] in in the business And large [00:23:51] companies don't like surprises. They want a [00:23:54] safe choice They want innovation and a safe choice at the [00:23:57] same time. They want the best customer experience and a [00:24:00] safe choice ~Um, ~and that's what we're going to deliver by [00:24:03] transparency.
Joachim Schreiner: You build trust by [00:24:06] transparency ~Um, ~that's my my my strongest, ~uh ~[00:24:09] belief So Let's give [00:24:12] this transparency who we are what we [00:24:15] are why we are on the market and ~um Let's let's be the very ~[00:24:18] let's be very transparent about it because that's building trust [00:24:21] And companies that are looking for the cheapest [00:24:24] product will not select palua [00:24:27] companies that look for ~Um, ~I don't [00:24:30] know how to translate into english So [00:24:33] the product that can do everything [00:24:36] and the company that is developing every feature [00:24:39] immediately ~Uh, ~we won't be that Yeah, we are [00:24:42] focused on creating the best user [00:24:45] experience And creating not a risk [00:24:48] In operations for the large enterprises.
Joachim Schreiner: These [00:24:51] are the two things that we are providing and [00:24:54] it's very clear ~Um, and ~if you look for ~I don't know ~something that [00:24:57] you can install into your computer center. It's not [00:25:00] us We don't believe into private [00:25:03] cloud ~um ~Because it will just stop the speed that we can [00:25:06] develop if we can't deploy [00:25:09] Releases when we want to deploy releases ~um, so Openly~ saying [00:25:12] who you are what you can expect [00:25:15] Will lead to a very trustful [00:25:18] relationship.
Joachim Schreiner: That's what I believe into
Raul: You know, I can see more and more [00:25:21] why Parloa hired you, especially at the stage they're in right [00:25:24] now. I can see why this is really, ~um, ~something that [00:25:27] is going to get Parloa to a new level ~and, ~and also to be seen ~and, ~[00:25:30] and perceived as ~a, at ~a new level. ~And, um, ~I also liked what you [00:25:33] said in the beginning, which was, ~uh, ~I tell people right away [00:25:36] what to expect from me.
Raul: ~And, um, And, uh, this seems to be working quite well for you. ~So what is that? What is it ~to, ~to [00:25:39] work with you? What are, and looking maybe behind the [00:25:42] curtains, the people at Paraloa, how is your work with them? What [00:25:45] is your, they look like? I know you're a lot about enablement, [00:25:48] trusting people, empowering people.
Raul: ~How does that look like? ~
Empowerment and Company Culture
---
Raul: What can people [00:25:51] expect when they work with you?
Joachim Schreiner: And interestingly, ~you, ~[00:25:54] you have two things for him, enablement, empowerment. Yeah. [00:25:57] Something that we're just working on. We have so far [00:26:00] invested a lot into enablement at Palawa and a lot [00:26:03] of startups working into enablement. They don't work into [00:26:06] empowerment. ~Uh, ~and this was something that we just built. [00:26:09] If you empower people, you're building a [00:26:12] machine.
Joachim Schreiner: If you enable people, you just [00:26:15] educate them. If you empower them, you're building a [00:26:18] machine. As long as they are not empowered. Everybody is waiting [00:26:21] for a decision off. Whatever CEO, CFO, [00:26:24] CRO, once you have empowered them, [00:26:27] they start building their own energy, [00:26:30] their own passion, their own business. And ~that's, ~[00:26:33] that's what we're actually doing.
Joachim Schreiner: Yeah. ~Yeah. We're, we're, ~we're moving from [00:26:36] enablement to empowerment. We're moving from, ~um, ~[00:26:39] doing everything as an agency to make one customer happy, [00:26:42] to become an enterprise software company that doesn't [00:26:45] think in six deals, but in 6, 000 deals. How do [00:26:48] we get 6, 000 deals implemented in a month? [00:26:51] Very different thing ~than ~than implementing one or six [00:26:54] deals in a month ~So you start building these these things and when talking about and being transparent about that ~Implementing six deals a month is [00:26:57] not good enough.
Joachim Schreiner: It's not scalable enough ~Uh, it's it stopped growing help stop stopping us to grow um ~[00:27:00] People know what you expect. ~Um, ~is that always [00:27:03] easy? No, ~i'm a i'm a ~as your public can see i'm a very [00:27:06] direct person. ~Um, ~I Give [00:27:09] direct feedback. I want direct feedback. [00:27:12] I hire people only if I think I can learn from [00:27:15] them.
Joachim Schreiner: ~Um, I'm, not at the same time. ~I'm not arrogant. I think I can learn from every [00:27:18] person But I want to [00:27:21] understand from people when I interview the question that I always ask is what [00:27:24] can I learn from ~you? ~You We have to see how they [00:27:27] react. ~Um, ~so, that's the kind of [00:27:30] culture that we're building. Passionate people [00:27:33] that want to go and create [00:27:36] best and most performing company in the [00:27:39] world.
Joachim Schreiner: And want to create a [00:27:42] team Where all of your peers are like, [00:27:45] well, i've never seen such a great guy [00:27:48] in another company and when I joined [00:27:51] palor ~Um, ~I took my decision not based on the [00:27:54] product. ~I ~I knew the product is more than a grade [00:27:57] But I interviewed probably [00:28:00] at least one third of all employees to find out [00:28:03] Is that the amount of the started people that I want to work with?[00:28:06]
Joachim Schreiner: Is that the culture that I want to join? [00:28:09] I strongly believe if you start building this high [00:28:12] performance culture That everyone in the [00:28:15] organization is a superstar ~Um, ~the product will become the [00:28:18] best product on the market Anyway, ~yeah, I can I think ~if [00:28:21] you start with a super team, the product will become super [00:28:24] if you start with an average team ~You ~The product will become [00:28:27] average, even it was a great product before.
Joachim Schreiner: So [00:28:30] build a team, hire the right [00:28:33] people, ~um, empower, enable and ~empower people. ~Um, it's such a strong thing. ~That's how you build a [00:28:36] machine and then [00:28:39] not just do that for yourself, but bring that into your [00:28:42] ecosystem. Yeah. Like we, we [00:28:45] got Kinover. ~They, ~they build the [00:28:48] first Paloer only company, [00:28:51] Paloer only implementation company, consulting [00:28:54] company. ~Um, so ~help them ~to ~grow also, build a strategy with [00:28:57] them, how they can grow. ~Um, ~it's so much [00:29:00] fun building the organization. And if you [00:29:03] see the announcement of who now partners [00:29:06] with Paloer, it is like the who is who. [00:29:09] It is McKinsey, it's Accenture, it's Deloitte, [00:29:12] it's NDT, it's KPMG, it's [00:29:15] PWC, it's all of the mid size regional [00:29:18] partners.
Joachim Schreiner: They all understood [00:29:21] this thing was going to change the [00:29:24] world. Let's be on board. And at the same time, [00:29:27] they get the commitment. If you invest, you're [00:29:30] going to get projects to [00:29:33] implement ~for, ~for the people that you invested in.
Raul: ~uh, ~so ~there's, ~there's so much to [00:29:36] unpack there. ~Um, we we're trying to wrap it up, uh, in a, in a couple of minutes, but, um. ~You have a little bit of a [00:29:39] different approach to, I must have talked to about [00:29:42] 200 to 300 revenue leaders, ~uh, ~in this kind of [00:29:45] thing, or more about in detail about the thing. And, ~um, ~you have quite a ~unique, ~[00:29:48] unique approach to a couple of different areas.
Raul: And I find that very [00:29:51] inspiring. I think a lot of people will do as well. ~Is there. Maybe it's not one thing. ~We're never a product of [00:29:54] just one thing, especially if you've been around for a couple of years. But [00:29:57] is there a mentor you had, or is there something [00:30:00] that happened? ~Maybe you say, no, this is how I've been brought up.~
Raul: What made you, you, ~what, what changed, uh, what, ~what shaped you into this [00:30:03] person who believes so strongly into these things and then also can [00:30:06] execute them and bring that into an [00:30:09] organization. ~Um, and, ~and what can someone do to be like, Hey, I want to, I want to [00:30:12] also become kind of a fixture and I want to be someone who can [00:30:15] do these things.
Joachim Schreiner: ~So. ~most important thing [00:30:18] was ~the, the, for me ~that I accepted that I can learn [00:30:21] from everybody and that I'm [00:30:24] curious about. Everybody talking to me, learning, [00:30:27] building the network. ~Um, and ~yes, there are [00:30:30] mentors, coaches in my life that had a big [00:30:33] impact. ~Um, ~and I still have [00:30:36] those mentors and coaches and a network [00:30:39] around me that I can call and discuss [00:30:42] things ~at the same time, ~it helped me a lot to say, look.
Joachim Schreiner: I [00:30:45] do mistakes, and I do things wrong, [00:30:48] and I won't be the best ~in, ~in all of the [00:30:51] disciplines. And maybe I'm not the best in [00:30:54] any discipline. There's always a person that will [00:30:57] become better than me. ~Um, ~let's learn from those people. [00:31:00] Let's improve every day. I hate the [00:31:03] expression of satisfied or [00:31:06] zufrieden in Germany.
Joachim Schreiner: Because in my mindset [00:31:09] this Stops the passion to become [00:31:12] better. So if anybody asks me, are you satisfied? Are [00:31:15] you? Suffriden, I always say never [00:31:18] There's always things that we can improve [00:31:21] and, ~um, ~you need to be a bit of a self [00:31:24] confident and say, okay, I'm okay that I'm [00:31:27] not the best person in that, in that, in that, ~um, ~I [00:31:30] want to learn from others and, and create [00:31:33] that, that culture around you, [00:31:36] that learning and giving and receiving feedback [00:31:39] is the most gift that you [00:31:42] can get and give, ~um, ~honest feedback and, and, and [00:31:45] learning.
Joachim Schreiner: ~Yeah. And yeah.~
Raul: just a personal anecdote, you said something also I've never heard [00:31:48] anybody else say, ~um, ~nobody will see it, but behind me there's [00:31:51] a poster and Joachim can see it, I think, of a movie. [00:31:54] It's called Whiplash. I don't know if you know that movie. ~Um, but it's. ~Basically [00:31:57] my favorite movie in the world. And there is a phrase where [00:32:00] there's a music teacher and he says to a student, [00:32:03] there are no two words more harmful [00:32:06] in the English language than good job.
Raul: ~Um, ~which is [00:32:09] basically what you also just said. ~Uh, and, and ~he goes to a similar reasoning. [00:32:12] Now the movie also goes into a little bit more of a darker direction, [00:32:15] but I was always very inspired by that quote. ~Um, ~[00:32:18] I don't think you mean the same thing as that movie, but that just [00:32:21] reminded me of that. A lot of fascinating [00:32:24] things and I could keep going for a half an hour, but I would like to wrap it up here [00:32:27] just to keep the time short here.
Raul: ~Um, and, uh, always one last question. Cause, uh, ~so many [00:32:30] people would like to learn more from you and so many people would like to [00:32:33] also hear from you.
Final Thoughts and Advice for Founders
---
Raul: Be mentored, be coached by you, understand a bit [00:32:36] more, ~uh, ~what are the top two, three pieces of advice you can [00:32:39] give to founders and CROs, [00:32:42] people who want to grow something like a Salesforce or who [00:32:45] have aspirations to become something like a Parloa, two, [00:32:48] three things where you say like, man, this is really ~what I, ~what I would tell you and what to [00:32:51] focus on right now.
Raul: ~Mm hmm.~
Joachim Schreiner: one of the person that have inspired me most [00:32:54] is Mark Benioff, obviously. And [00:32:57] Mark gave me a couple of things that I will never [00:33:00] forget. And one of the things he said is, ~um, ~[00:33:03] people overestimate what they can do in one year. [00:33:06] They totally underestimate what they can do in a [00:33:09] decade. So to me is that build [00:33:12] a plan, be focused on execution. ~Um be ~be open [00:33:15] about what is the plan where do we go and then [00:33:18] execute against that be focused And and [00:33:21] being focused also means to defocus from [00:33:24] something else Allow people to [00:33:27] defocus ~Uh ~plenty of startups that I see [00:33:30] They add They continuously add more [00:33:33] focus. They never allow to defocus. And, [00:33:36] and if you don't defocus, if everything's important, [00:33:39] nothing is important.
Joachim Schreiner: So make sure everybody understands what's [00:33:42] really, really important. ~Um, ~you know, my [00:33:45] values, yeah. Trust, honesty, [00:33:48] transparency, ~um, ~that pays off. If you [00:33:51] become a partner, business will become [00:33:54] easier. ~Um, and, and, and, ~and this one learning. I've always said when I [00:33:57] started a new job and I haven't started too often a new job because [00:34:00] I Tend to stay for a long time ~Um ~[00:34:03] is i'm going to quit the day.
Joachim Schreiner: I haven't learned [00:34:06] anything new and I think ~this this this ~This [00:34:09] general, I want to learn every day from, [00:34:12] and I want to learn from every person is [00:34:15] something ~that, ~that keeps you up
Raul: Very nice.
Conclusion
---
Raul: Joachim, I [00:34:18] must say, ~I'm, uh, ~I didn't know exactly where this would go in every direction because we [00:34:21] didn't have a lot of time to talk before. But, ~uh, ~I'm actually [00:34:24] inspired by ~a couple, ~a couple of things right now. I actually learned a little bit about this, so [00:34:27] I will keep going with my job for today.
Raul: I hope, ~uh, ~the people [00:34:30] at home ~are ~also learned something. ~Um, ~Joachim. Very happy [00:34:33] that you joined us. Maybe it will be the first of a couple that we [00:34:36] do because I actually have 10 more things I would like to talk to you [00:34:39] about. ~Um, ~thanks for taking the time. ~Uh, ~and ~uh, ~thanks for being with [00:34:42] us today.
Raul: Unfortunately, not Toni, but I'm pretty sure he will be very happy ~when he, ~when [00:34:45] he listens to this episode. Joachim.
Joachim Schreiner: once [00:34:48] again, best regards to Toni ~and, ~and I wish all of the best for his [00:34:51] health. And, ~uh, ~thank you for [00:34:54] having me here. It was a very amazing, [00:34:57] nice talk to you. ~Um, ~And as someone that got [00:35:00] interviewed, you can only give those answers that you've got [00:35:03] questions asked. So thank you for being [00:35:06] also a great partner in this interview.
Joachim Schreiner: And [00:35:09] yeah, if you and ~your, ~your [00:35:12] ecosystem have more topics to talk, [00:35:15] let's find time.
Raul: Yes, we will. ~We will for sure. ~Thanks [00:35:18] Joachim. Thanks
Joachim Schreiner: Thank you. Bye.
Raul: [00:35:21] Bye.
[00:35:24]