Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
In this special Real Talk episode, the host welcomes back Denniston A. Muir, Al the Great, and Maurice Webb to revisit their ongoing journeys through divorce, healing, and growth. The men share updates on life, health, fatherhood, and how the podcast has sparked conversations and encouragement from both friends and strangers. They discuss healing as learning acceptance, letting go of the past, resisting emotional traps, and finding peace without trying to control others, especially in co-parenting. Practical advice for men in week one of separation includes avoiding major decisions, building a supportive circle, processing emotions instead of masking them with spending or distractions, and recognizing life is in transition. They also talk candidly about dating, boundaries, masculinity, faith, identity beyond productivity, and the importance of therapy. The episode closes with encouragement that healing isn’t linear and their stories aren’t over.
00:00 Welcome Back Real Talk
01:14 Life Updates Check In
02:17 Podcast Impact Stories
06:44 Surprised By Feedback
08:27 Healing Journey Shifts
11:18 Identity Beyond Production
14:51 Letting Go Of Past
20:18 Acceptance And Going With Flow
25:57 Advice For Week One
28:11 Processing Feelings Not Escaping
32:14 Weeds In The Garden
34:13 Wilding Out Confessions
35:04 Rock Bottom Wake Up
35:53 Sex Need Myth
37:58 Depression Faith Recovery
40:02 Freedom Finding Yourself
41:24 Rebuilding Without Splurging
44:18 Talking To The Kids
52:19 Dating Boundaries With Daughters
01:00:34 Advice To Rebuild
01:07:10 Final Encouragement
Creators and Guests
What is Real Talk: Men, Divorce & Rebuilding?
Real Talk: Men, Divorce & Rebuilding is a podcast for men navigating life after separation, heartbreak, and major life transitions. Through honest conversations and real stories, we explore divorce, co-parenting, rebuilding confidence, finding love again, and growing into better fathers, brothers, and husbands. This is a space where men are heard, supported, and reminded they’re not alone. Whether you’re newly divorced, years removed, or still healing, this show exists to help you move forward with clarity, strength, and purpose. Your life did not end when your marriage ended. Now it's time to do the work so your "next" doesn't deal with the same things as your "ex."
6 - Real Talk
===
Lawrence Flowers: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Real Talk, where men have honest conversations about healing, growth, relationships, faith, rebuilding after life's hardest moments.
Tonight is a special episode where we're bringing back three guests who have previously showed and shared their journey to us. Since their last appearance, many of you have reached out, shared your stories, and asked some powerful questions. Tonight, we're revisiting the conversation with three brothers who have walked through the divorce, survived it, continue to grow through it.
Please help me welcome back Dennis Demirure, Al the Great, and Maurice Webb. Fellas, thank you guys for coming [00:01:00] back and hanging out with us one more time. You know, it's, it's definitely been a journey ever since the starting this. Starting, you know, this podcast is a blessing, having these conversations with other men, and to be able to share our stories.
Um, before we get deep into it, um, how have things been since the last time you guys were on this, this show?
Al The Great: Oh, I go first? It's been, it's been good. I have, um, you know, life has had some, some ups and downs but you know, you gotta, you gotta look at the blessings and, and be able to see the, see the fruit around you and not just focus on the negative.
So it's been good.
Maurice Webb: Yeah, it's been great, man. Just working, um, spending time with my daughters. They just turned 16, so just celebrated their 16th birthday. Got one more birthday in June for my youngest and so looking forward to that. And life is good.
Lawrence Flowers: Yeah.
Denniston A. Muir: Cool. I could say the same. Um, different challenges of course, but- Mm-hmm
yet and still, um, life has been good. No [00:02:00] complaints.
Lawrence Flowers: That's good. And the one thing that's awesome to hear, um, it seem like everybody's been dealing with the physical. You know, everybody's been in the gym and stuff. People been working out. We had a little pre-conversation before here, so I'm glad to hear my brothers are, you know, working it out, staying healthy.
Healthy lifestyle. So now, specifically to the Real Talk and since you've been up here, have anybody come to you guys and asked you guys about the podcast or, you know, say, "Hey, I saw this," or, "I heard", or how the podcast affected them? Have you guys had those conversations with anybody and care to share?
Maurice Webb: Yeah. I mean, I've, I've shared out multiple clips. I wanna definitely support you, so I've shared out clips to, um, just my, um, internet community and, um, it's been well received. Well received, so great great information. Um, the soundbites are definitely something that people can take with them in their everyday life.
Denniston A. Muir: Yeah, I could say the same. Um, I've had a couple of [00:03:00] side conversations as well, especially when we talk about things that people just didn't know about me or whatnot, and so I've had those conversations. But I think the, the, the podcast is, is doing really well. Um, I've heard everybody's episode and everybody's stories and, um, you know, we...
I can find common ground with everybody's, you know, everybody's situation. So I think that not only help us within our circle, but I'm pretty sure it helps those within the community that you're reaching as well. Thank
Maurice Webb: you. Absolutely.
Al The Great: I think mainly for me it's been, you know, just referring people to the podcast.
You know, telling people about, about it 'cause I, I never thought that my story would lead me to have so many other conversations with other men who are going through the same thing. You know, when you're going through it, you think it's just, you know, it's just you and this is not something that's gonna be something that's gonna be helpful for other men, but it, it definitely has been.
And, you know, just being in this room, I, I just, it amazes me how many other men are just, like, going through the [00:04:00] same thing, divorce, and how, how prevalent it is.
Lawrence Flowers: Yeah, I'm tell you, like it's been a awesome journey for me because like I've had people ... Case in point, yesterday I was at Walmart and somebody, I guess somewhere down the line we're connected, he had heard my podcast and was like, "What you guys talked about really impacted my life.
It really helped me." Oh. And a young lady, a cl- a li- a lifelong friend of mine, she told me her brother was going through a divorce, and she shared the podcast, and it's encouraged him. And it's just amazing. I've had a lot of people reaching out and say, "Hey, I've been through that." you know, "I want, I want to he- I want you to help me deal with my journey."
And I, I is just so very grateful. I thank you to all the listeners, those who have reached out, those who have said, "Hey brother, I know what you've been through. Matter of fact, I'm going through it." They've encouraged me. And then also those who ask for a little bit more insight about ... 'Cause we, we have a hour-long show, [00:05:00] and I've been dealing with this for the last two years, so we can't say every-
you, everybody have their different lengths of time, so we can only say but so much here. But being willing and feeling like they can come talk to me about their story, I really appreciate each and every one of those, and I just hope that I continue to impact somebody somewhere out there, whether I know you or I don't know you.
And that's the weird part. I've had people who I don't know reach out. Like those who know me, I'm like, "Okay, all right, that's June Bug." Okay. But then I've had people h- DM me like, "Hey brother, can we talk for a minute?" I was like, "Sure, yeah." Yes. You know, so it's just, it's been really encouraging me to let me know that what I went through wasn't in vain, and then this podcast is not in vain.
Yeah. But it's actually touching somebody's life. Because when we're going through, at the time it's like, "Oh my God. God, why me?" But then you sit back, and we're gonna talk about this a little bit later on, we sit back and it's like you know what? Yeah, it hurt, but as Rob talked about is God is repurposing my pain.
You [00:06:00] know, the pain, yes, the pain was hurtful, but there's purpose. God can use that pain to touch other people. So I'm so very grateful to God that, you know, he chose me. You know, life is but a vapor. And this is something that I was thinking about today. Life is but a vapor. So if this short time that I had to deal with this pain helps somebody else to make a positive situ- decision, whether it be don't commit suicide, whether it be to find Christ, whether it be whatever, my short affliction was worth it because it saved somebody else's life.
It changed somebody else's life. Yeah, it hurt, but you know what God is is repurposing my pain. Rob, that's my shout-out to you, bro. Um, so, like, I guess since being on the show, has anything been surprising? Like, what was the most thing, surprising thing that's happened? Like for me was strangers reaching out to me for advice.
So if you guys have any stories like that, anything that was surprising that [00:07:00] happened outside of the podcast.
Denniston A. Muir: Not really surprising, but, um, I did get a lot of, um, lot of encouragement and a lot of feedback. Mm. Um, again, like, you know, people don't know what you're really going through until you're going th- or until you tell your story, right?
Mm-hmm. So even though they may look at you a certain way or just assume, "Hey, life's good. He's smiling, he's pushing through it," they don't really know the internal pain and trauma you're actually dealing with. Mm. And so i- it kinda turned to a two-fold of like, "Okay, well, how are you dealing with it, you know, in such a positive manner?"
A- and then at the same time, "Okay, I'm going through something. Now, how can that translate or encourage me to do do so?" Mm-hmm. So it leads to those type of conversations as well. Yeah. Um, to me it really just speaks from man to man because you don't get a lot of men sharing their feelings and emotions, you know.
Um- That ain't something I normally do - Mm-hmm ... to be honest with you. Um, so that becomes tough enough [00:08:00] for me to even get into that space of like, "All right, I'm comfortable enough to share this, or I'm comfortable enough to tell you how I feel. Um, to be honest, I did this because of you." You know what I mean?
Right. 'Cause of our friendship. I treat, I consider you a brother, and so when you asked, I wasn't gonna be like, "No, I'm not gonna do that." No, i- it's a good thing for me. It's a sort of a therapy, to be honest. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, us sharing our story and me getting the feedback I got, I'm like, "Okay, cool.
Then that, I'm on the right track to keep pushing forward."
Lawrence Flowers: Amen. And you know what? And I'm gonna go to the next question, and it's deal with, um, your healing journey, has it changed? For me, yes, and what I mean by that is this podcast has been part of my healing journey. As I have these conversation with brothers, like I'm listening to you guys' story, like I told Al, like, "Where were you at when I was dealing with what I was dealing with?"
You know? Some stuff that- Mm-hmm ... he brought up was like I needed that in week in month one of the, of my separation. So just having this conversation with you guys have really blessed me and helped me in my [00:09:00] healing journey because I think I'm still on that journey. Um, because, you know, life is life, and you have those moments where, you know, you just think about, "I'm in this situation that I never thought I would be in."
So I appreciate the conversation. So I say you guys are part of my healing journey.
Maurice Webb: Yeah. I would say, too, um, I think that at some point when you really start to see your healing taking place, you, you really start de-centering what happened to you, and you start centering who you're becoming.
Lawrence Flowers: Mm.
Maurice Webb: And it's like your identity is either y- either always been this person, but things in your environment smothered it, or you're rediscovering some things that you never even knew about yourself, and that's helping you to, um, embrace that new part of your life.
Mm-hmm. And what I mean by that is that you start to realize that- You like [00:10:00] things that you normally wouldn't really be into. Um, for myself, I'm listening to music differently. You know, I'm taking walks now that are slower and just appreciating nature because I recognize that there's a beauty in that slow pace of life.
Slowing down a little bit. Me and Hal talk about this in terms of just being able to, um, get out of that mindset that I've always gotta be doing things in order to be somebody. And so, um, being able to just sit with myself i-in my own apartment without having to do much, you know. Um, so those are a lot of pieces that are starting to take place now as I get further away from that particular time in my life where I went through that traumatic divorce.
So not that it wasn't painful, but just being able to take that pain and turning it into something that is now more beautiful in my life. And and, and I'm seeing that show up with my kids. I'm [00:11:00] being able to be a little bit more patient with them, you know, complimenting them, affirming them, whereas before I was very agitated and just irritated because my life felt like everything was upside down, and I still gotta do all these responsibilities.
So, um, it's a beautiful journey
Al The Great: I think for, for me, it's been a lot of confirmation 'cause I've been, you know, I, I write books about wholeness, consult and coach about wholeness, and it's been a lot of confirmation about the insight and wisdom God has given me about wholeness. I recently, this year I got diagnosed with a functional neurological disorder, which is, you know, something that is very complicated, but it has such diverse symptoms of like, you know, paralysis.
I mean, one, one day I couldn't even ... Like, I couldn't process, I couldn't speak. Hmm. And the confirmation has [00:12:00] been, you know, as, as a man, you know, me and, me and Mo talk about this, we are taught that our value and our identity is in what we can produce. Hmm. It is in how many women want us. It's in how much money we make.
It's in what space we can dominate. But those aren't things that can take you lifelong.
Lawrence Flowers: Hmm.
Al The Great: Like, and I, I do a, a, a group at a skilled nursing facility and these guys get faced with that because they lose that physical ability to be able to work, to be able to dominate another man, and then it's like you're left with, "Am I still a man?"
Lawrence Flowers: Hmm.
Al The Great: So the confirmation came about where I've had paralysis. I've had trouble speaking. I've had times where I couldn't go to work. I've gone through all of these things and I didn't lose myself because I understood that I am ... The foundation of who I am is who God says I am, not in what I can do. So it was just, [00:13:00] just more confirmation of like, yeah, God, what you taught me was, was the right thing and I need to continue to teach this to other men and other people in general.
Maurice Webb: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I would say, too, um, I think one of the things that maybe we all can attest to is that I think about when the Bible says that David encouraged himself and Learning to really dig into that is really now you have more agency within yourself.
Denniston A. Muir: Yeah.
Maurice Webb: Like you're functioning on a more internal level, on a more intimate level with yourself 'cause you're forced to.
Denniston A. Muir: Mm-hmm. '
Maurice Webb: Cause you gotta deal with those emotions, and at some point those emotions will either overtake you or you learn how to manage them. And I think that in that process of learning who you are again and reshaping your life, you realize that I am in control of my life. I do have, I do have the ability to, to come out of this.
I don't have to stay here. It may not look like before, but do you know what? [00:14:00] I don't want it to look like before. 'Cause that was a lot of trauma.
Joe Woolworth: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Maurice Webb: I've been asked many times, you know, "Would you go back to that situation?" It's like, "Nope." Because I've now stepped on the other side of it, and I see I put myself in so many compromising situations just to appease another person.
Lawrence Flowers: Mm-hmm.
Maurice Webb: I don't wanna do that again.
Lawrence Flowers: Yeah.
Maurice Webb: And I don't think that a healthy relationship should ask that of you, right? Right. A healthy relationship should say, "Be who you are and I'm be who I am, and we appreciate our differences." Yeah. Mm-hmm. "We appreciate the people that we've become," and, and we learn how to c- become more compatible through that, you know?
And so, um, I just did a lot of shrinking in my life, man, and I'm just glad that I can live to tell the story, that that's not the end of my story.
Lawrence Flowers: Mm-hmm. Good stuff.
Denniston A. Muir: Yeah. I can, excuse me, I can agree to all of that. Um, I think ... well, not even I think, um, I can say that I [00:15:00] actually had a major breakthrough- Mm
um, this past weekend. Um, I went away for a little bit, um, and, um, I was at the beach and I spent my time at the beach not so much swimming, even though I was in the water, but I wasn't really swimming. I really spent my time praying- Mm ... to be honest. Um, and so I was at the beach, I was praying and whatnot, and just, you know, really just releasing everything that was on my mind.
It was really a conversation between me and God in, within the nature. And- Mm ... um, what I really came to understand was that my frustration- That my, my frustration was rooted in me being busy chasing who I used to be because I did not like where I was at now, right? As opposing to me focusing on the future of who I'm evolving and becoming.
And what I also came to realize is that what was playing in that frustration was the fact that I was stuck in the middle [00:16:00] of who I was becoming, but more comfortable with who I was. Mm. So I'm thinking back, like, "Man, life was good when I was in college," when I was... You know, even post-college and I was in work and I just, you know, had different things going on.
I'm celebrating that and I'm like, "Man, what happened to where I'm at right now?" Mm. Rather than accepting, man, you got more ahead of you. Mm-hmm. So instead of me going forward, I'm so busy looking backwards. Even though I'm walking forward- Mm-hmm ... I'm looking backwards, and I'm stumbling and I'm tripping myself up and I'm running into this and running into that.
And it wasn't until I, like, the pretty much the drive back home from vacation- Mm ... was when I really started processing this. Mm. And I really started realizing, like, I really don't want my past . Mm. You know? I really don't want... Like, d- I really don't wanna be who I used to be, and that was honestly major for me.
Mm. Because like I said, I was really just like I lived a life where I had fun and I enjoyed things, so I was [00:17:00] like, you know, that's what I wanted now. But in reality, I don't want that anymore. Mm-hmm. And I had to have that acceptance and that truth of like, I really don't want that. Mm-hmm. I want peace. I want, you know, it's, or the things that I do want that I don't currently have right now.
Mm. But I can't be so busy looking backwards like I used to be that. No, I gotta embrace who I'm becoming. Mm. And so I had to take a different view and a different step of saying, "You know what? I'm evolving."
Maurice Webb: Evolving.
Denniston A. Muir: So let it happen. There you go. Stop fighting it. Yeah. Let it happen. And so I think that's where I hit my major breakthrough- Yeah
because I, ever since then in that conversation, our prayers, all have been different. Mm-hmm. My outlook, how I feel have all been different. It's been like, "Yo, just let that stuff go."
Lawrence Flowers: Yeah.
Denniston A. Muir: Like, you know, yes, you had your fun, but that was back then. Yeah. You're in a whole different stage of life. Mm-hmm. So now I'm starting to understand that, and I'm just going, you know, honestly just flow with that.
So that's- Yeah ... been my biggest change where I'm like, man, I did hit a breakthrough because I can tell even the way I'm thinking, the way I feel about certain things, that I can just [00:18:00] honestly say like I just really let that go.
Lawrence Flowers: Mm-hmm. It's, what I hear you say is y- you let go of the weight of what was.
Denniston A. Muir: Yes.
Lawrence Flowers: That way you can embrace what will be or what you're becoming. Absolutely. So that is, that is good because I think a lot of times that hinder our healing process or growing process is holding on to the past. Yep. Hold on what was, what could've been, what should've been, what we thought was gonna be.
No, embrace where you are and where you're going because where you're going is so much greater than where you've been. Absolutely. I mean, I sit back and think about from a Biblical story, the children of Israel, the reason why only, what, Joshua and Caleb made it to the promised land, 'cause everybody else still stuck on thinking about Egypt.
Yeah. They was stuck on the onions and the leeks, but forgot about the whips. So a lot of times we're, i- when in our wilderness place, we're stuck- In the wilderness because we still stuck on what Egypt-
Maurice Webb: Yeah ...
Lawrence Flowers: versus going forward to the Promised Land. So I love that, man. I love that. Yeah. What about you,
Al The Great: sir?
It, it reminded me of, like I remember driving some years ago, and it was like a, a [00:19:00] rainstorm, hail, rain or something, and God gave me a word. Um, I had my kids in the back, and I'm driving home, and in front of me, it's just like pouring down. Like it just could barely see. But looking in my rear view mirror, like it looked so clear.
Mm. Like it looked like it wasn't even raining at all. And, and the Holy Spirit was telling me that looking back, because even the rear view mirror is bigger than the f- the, the front mirror. Right. It's more narrow in front, and then it's wide in the back. Mm-hmm. Emotions will cause you to play a trick on yourself to...
'Cause y- you, you tie certain emotions, and you start looking back, and it seems clearer because you're, you're in this, in this place where you're in the storm, and sometimes it feels like backwards was better. But if you were really back there, you realize, no, it really wasn't- Yeah ... if you take the emotions out of it.
Mm-hmm. The storm was still back there. Mm-hmm. Like while I'm going through it right now, but at least I have the opportunity. Like at least I'm growing, at least I'm moving [00:20:00] forward. Right. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's just a, you know, it's an emotional trap- Mm ... that the, the devil likes to play on us. Like it looks clear, but if you take the emotions out of it, it is, it is, you know, there's still a lot of growth that you have right now.
And it was, you had issues back then, too.
Denniston A. Muir: Yeah. Very true. Absolutely.
Maurice Webb: Yeah. I was just gonna say, um, you mentioned water, and, um, it's very interesting that they say that people who actually drown in the ocean or in rivers, they drown because they try to fight against the current.
Lawrence Flowers: Yeah.
Maurice Webb: But if they actually go with the current- Mm
they have a more likely chance of surviving.
Lawrence Flowers: Mm.
Maurice Webb: And I just thought about that when you were talking about, um, acceptance, and, um, it's very much in our consciousness to wanna go against the current, thinking that that's going to, um, you know, get us out of that situation. Right.
Lawrence Flowers: Right.
Maurice Webb: But you wear, you literally will wear yourself out, and you, you have no strength to hold yourself up, [00:21:00] and you drown.
Lawrence Flowers: Mm.
Maurice Webb: Right? So basically the
Lawrence Flowers: thing that you're fighting is actually gonna cause you to drown because you're going against it versus... A- and it goes back to when it comes to y- the healing, the five stages of grief. The sooner you get to acceptance, the sooner you will feel, well- The sooner the healing will happen because you've accepted that this is what is.
Because sometime that fighting the current is that the relationship is over. You kill, you're still fighting and fighting, fighting. Sir, the relationship over. You know, you're fi- And even the feeling of depression, embrace it. 'Cause even therapists, um, say that when you try to fight against the five stages, you actually stay in a stage longer.
Like for instance, if you fight the fact that you're dealing with depression, you stay depressed longer. So accept versus fighting the current, accept the fact that wherever stage you're in, in the healing process, accept that and just, just go, go with it. Roll with [00:22:00] it. Yeah. Don't fight against it because all you're doing is making yourself weaker and it's gonna make it that much harder, and then you may end up drowning m- in that, where you would've made it out a whole lot sooner, or you may stay any longer.
Excuse me. Or you, you would've made it out a whole lot sooner if you would just, instead of fighting the current, went with it. '
Maurice Webb: Cause come to tell you something, it's a beautiful thing 'cause all of us are co-parents in this room. Mm-hmm. When you get them ugly text messages from that other person-
Lawrence Flowers: Yeah ...
Maurice Webb: and you can sit there and say, "All right, going about my day."
Lawrence Flowers: Yeah.
Maurice Webb: And you don't let it bo- you don't let it bother you no more, right? Mm-hmm. It's, the person gonna do what they gonna do. That's right. They gonna say, they gonna criticize you, they gonna give you them- Yeah ... them long paragraph messages- Yeah ... and you just be like, "Okay." Yeah. Like, to get to that place- Mm-hmm
and where you're not firing back and doing all of that, man, that's a beautiful thing. Because-
Lawrence Flowers: Mm-hmm ...
Maurice Webb: life does, is not about all these things all of a sudden now working in our favor.
Lawrence Flowers: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Maurice Webb: It's about whatever's happening, I accept it.
Lawrence Flowers: Yeah.
Maurice Webb: And I'm gonna take it like a [00:23:00] man. Yeah. And I'm gonna do the best I can to- Stand up on my two feet and keep on pushing forward, right?
Yeah. I mean, I literally, like two days ago, man, I just had to sit there and say, "We're gonna keep going." Like, I had to tell myself- Mm-hmm ... I'm not falling back into that deep, dark depression.
Lawrence Flowers: Mm-hmm.
Maurice Webb: I'm not sitting up in the bed looking at the ceiling for four or five hours 'cause I can't get out the bed 'cause I'm thinking about all of these things- Mm
that have happened to me. I'm gonna keep pushing.
Lawrence Flowers: Yeah.
Maurice Webb: I'm gonna keep moving. You know, that's why I like walking now, because walking helps me to literally just get it out. Yeah. Just talk to God, get it out. The moments like you in that water, it's just, "All right, God, what we gonna do?"
Lawrence Flowers: Right.
Maurice Webb: Right. What we gonna do?
'Cause I, I got, I got, I'm trusting you in a way that I've never been able to trust you before- Mm ... and, um, if you, if you led me this far, you gonna, you gonna take me further. Yeah. And just having that faith, bro, to just keep moving.
Lawrence Flowers: Yep.
Al The Great: And that's, that's why m- meek- meekness and submission is so powerful, [00:24:00] but we think of them as like a, a, a area of weakness.
Like, 'cause it's power under control. Like, you are choosing to be disciplined with your power, and you're choosing to just, like, just, like, sometimes you just have to go with the flow, and you have to see what's gonna happen next and see what you can learn from it, and you can't, you can't control every situation.
And people ... You know, one of the things that, you know in the garden we got ... I think people get mixed up. We have dominion. We have dominion over the land, but we try so much and, and just kill ourselves trying to have dominance over people.
Lawrence Flowers: Mm.
Al The Great: Dominance and dominion is not the same thing. We are on the same level as human beings.
Like, even when you get married, you're on the same level as your wife or your partner. You can't, you can't have dominion over her. You can't dominate her. You gotta, you gotta understand that you just have to go with the flow and understand I am going to work on and do what I can, and then the rest I'm just [00:25:00] gonna leave up to God.
Maurice Webb: Mm-hmm. That's why I like cultivate. I, I believe we're called to cultivate.
Al The Great: We are.
Maurice Webb: God give us dirt, and He want us to figure out how to make that into, to a beautiful garden.
Lawrence Flowers: Good stuff, good stuff, all good stuff. And just even to continue on with the not fighting the current, one of the things that I've learned that when you stop fighting, you are more at peace because going back to the control, you don't, you don't have control of what they do.
You control how you respond to what they do. Yes.
Maurice Webb: Right.
Lawrence Flowers: So just, "Oh, y- y- this, this is where we are today." "Okay." And you know, "This, this is what we're doing today." "Okay. No problem." Um, I'm not gonna allow that to control my peace because then what's happening is you're like a yo-yo. They're controlling your emotions up and down, up and down, up and down.
But when you take control of it and say, "You know what? Irrespective of what they say or do, I'm still gonna be at peace. I'm gonna be calm. You know, hey, I'm good." Right. You know? So you know, there's some guys out here, they're [00:26:00] in week one of the, of their separation. What kind of advice would you guys
Somebody that just right now was like, "You know what? I just got the papers. We did everything. Now I moved to my place. She's in her place." What, what would you tell that guy that's starting his healing journey?
Maurice Webb: you are in transition. Whether you understand that or believe it or not- ... you're in transition. You're either in emotional transition, a physical transition, or either a spiritual transition because you are literally, um, separating two flesh now. Like, it's like when wood and glue are together and you try to pull it apart, some of that wood is coming off the other piece-
Lawrence Flowers: Mm
Maurice Webb: together. Like, it's, it's a, it's a nasty break. And, um, you, you gotta put your life back together in some way, so just recognizing you're in transition. And when you're in transition, that's not [00:27:00] time to try to go and buy a Corvette. Like, you ain't gonna like that Corvette in two years. Right. Be- because you just trying to find yourself in that moment, and, um, that's where y- you can really make a lot of foolish mistakes.
So be very ... I would say this is a time to just really, um, be very careful about your decisions.
Lawrence Flowers: Yeah. I, and I agree, and to piggyback on that is don't make any major decisions right now.
Maurice Webb: Yeah.
Lawrence Flowers: Because you're gonna ma- you gonna do something and you gonna look back and regret it. Yeah. You know, going back to the car analogy, this ain't the time to make a big purchase.
It ain't the time to make big changes because your life has just been flipped upside down.
Maurice Webb: That's right.
Lawrence Flowers: Find you a circle. I, I've said that I think episode one, and I still say it to this date, find you a circle of brothers or someone that, if nothing else, they're two ears that wanna listen to you, because sometimes that's all you really need, just somebody to listen.
Not even somebody with the answer, but somebody that will listen. So I would say week one, [00:28:00] week one, guy, find you a good circle, somebody that's gonna tell you positive things, someone that is gonna lead you the right way versus leading you astray.
Maurice Webb: I agree.
Lawrence Flowers: Mm-hmm.
Denniston A. Muir: While we were talking, I guess that was more of a, a, a, a, a complicated question for me.
Mm-hmm. Um, because my, I guess my approach to my divorce was, was very different than, than a lot of others that I hear. Um, so I took kind of ... I wouldn't replay the same route, of course, but I took my, my route was more like I got freedom, you know? That's how my route was, right? And so yeah, I had some peace about that freedom, but I was
I think I took my freedom a little too far to where I wasn't focused on what was really happening. Just like you said, your life just changed. I wasn't looking at it like that. I was like, "I'm free. I'm actually gonna go live." You had a Braveheart moment. Freedom. My mind's changed. Mind's [00:29:00] really ... Once I got my apartment, got settled, like of course it was like a lot of frustrating things I was going through.
But as soon as, you know, I got settled, I just started living life again. And looking back at that, that should've been a time where I was more of, I didn't go crazy. I don't, let me, let me stop for a second. 'Cause I was like, all the way to date like, "Yo, he went bananas." No, I didn't go crazy. He was wildin'
Lawrence Flowers: out,
Denniston A. Muir: y'all.
It was more like I never processed my feelings or my emotions properly. Mm. So for me, I was more like, "I'm a bachelor, I'm free, I can do whatever I wanna do." And you know, do this, do that, whatever. But looking back at it from a more mature standpoint, I should've just processed my feelings more. I should've been honest with myself earlier in the game where I was like, you know, dealing with what I was currently dealing with rather than, um, just being this single guy and, "Oh, life is now good," type deal.
Mm-hmm. Um, but I should've been more emotionally connect, connected. Um, and I think that plays into why I [00:30:00] now have a breakthrough, is because I'm now honest with myself about how I feel about things, how I'm processing things. And so that would be my advice for week one. Like, yes, get your circle, understand what you're dealing with now, and make wise decisions.
Don't just go out there and just live life as if nothing had ha- has happened. Because good or bad, however that marriage was, your life has just changed, and you have to slow down and realize that. That life just changed for you. Life just shifted. I didn't take that approach. I took, like I said, I took the approach like I got freedom papers, I'm moving on with my life, I'm ready to do this, do that.
I'm s- I, I was in school at during the time, I was working. And so I felt this freedom and this peace in my home now, you know, that I did not have before. So I kinda appreciated that more than anything. Like, okay, now I can focus on my work, now I can focus on this and focus that. But- I didn't, I never addressed, yo, you're divorced.
I think that's where I'm really coming from. It's not that I, like, got [00:31:00] divorced and I'm out partying. No, I'm saying I never addressed that you got divorced. I just kept living life. Mm. Only thing is, like, now I live life in peace. Like, I don't come home to arguments. I actually look forward to coming home.
You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. That was my biggest difference, but I kept moving on. I never addressed my change. Yeah. And so just like how he said, you gotta understand, yo, your life just flipped. Just flipped. I never addressed that. I just kept ... Yeah, you know what I mean? I never, I never addressed that part.
And so that's what I would encourage the week one guy, that you just got your place or you're just settling down. Understand, address what just happened. Mm. Process that properly before doing anything crazy or doing stuff to, um, to fill that void, because I would do that too. And, um, not that it's a bad thing that I filled the void with more schoolwork and I filled the void with you know, more work-work, but I was burning myself out trying to fill that void.
But if I'd a settled down and got emotionally connected to where like, [00:32:00] okay, yes, I got divorced. Now how do I deal with this trauma? How do I handle the situation instead of ignoring it and trying to just, you know, keep, keep going. I think I would've handled a lot of my other situations much better.
Al The Great: I think, so to, you know, be honest, you know, always being transparent, we talked about, like, the garden.
Everybody has this garden that they cultivating, you know? I on, I think on my episode I talk about the internal garden, this concept of internal garden. Your thoughts, your beliefs, your actions, they are seeds, they are watering. There's a, there's something, there's something in your garden, you know? It's supposed to be the fruit of the spirit, but we all have some, some extra weeds in there.
So before I got married, for several decades, you know, you was, you was out there. Yeah. You know, you, you, it was you were in, in watering some other stuff in that garden. As, as whole as I was within my marriage and up to the end, as, as much as it helped me, once those, like, we were done and, and separated, I, I [00:33:00] wild out for a short minute.
Mm-hmm. Like, 'cause them urges, like the, like them, them weeds in there that deep down in there- Yeah ... and they ain't been pulled and you thought they were pulled. Mm-hmm. And them urges started coming back where you wanna be desired by women and you want, you know, you want companionship and all these other things.
And I, I wild out for a brief moment until I like, "Nah, this, this ain't, like, this is, this is not what we need to do." You don't have to earn, you know, value. You don't have to, like, you don't need somebody.
Maurice Webb: H- hey,
Al The Great: sir. And then I got myself
Maurice Webb: back in control. You said transparency. What, what was that short minute?
Was it, like, two months? Was it two years? It probably- How long was it, brother? No, but, like, it
Al The Great: probably, like, it was, like- We need to
Maurice Webb: know ...
Al The Great: it was, like, short, short for, I mean, it was, like, probably, like, a couple weeks.
Maurice Webb: Mm.
Al The Great: Like, I, I, I went on, you know, I was met this, this young lady on Facebook and she ghosted me-
and I think that was enough to get me back on the right track and, like
Maurice Webb: Time, getting
Al The Great: ghosted. Yeah, get ghosted. I was like, "Okay, this ain't what it is." Mm. Let me, let me pull back.
Maurice Webb: Nah. Mm-hmm. I just recalibrated my [00:34:00] strategy.
Denniston A. Muir: Right.
Maurice Webb: Man, listen. You, you, we a man, we men, bro. Mm-hmm. We got appetites. Mm-hmm. And I mean, you, you, you break out of that cage.
Denniston A. Muir: Absolutely.
Maurice Webb: You know what I'm saying? Yeah, true. Like, you, you start doing stuff you ain't, you like, "I got freedom. I can do this. I can do that." Mm. You know? I- it was hotel, motel Holiday Six w- with my spot, so- I mean, and you know, I, I broke a few hearts. I mean, I ain't gonna lie, I did. I feel bad about it, but you know, I, now I'ma say this, I was always honest.
I say, "Listen, I just got out of a 17-year marriage." Yeah. And the last five of it What, no, what, no, can we say that on here? Can we say that? It wa- it was no activity. There we go. So, you know I'm still, I'm, I'm trying to find out, you know, if things still working. Mm-hmm. A- a- and how they working, and you, you showed up, so you about to get this work today.[00:35:00]
Denniston A. Muir: Oh
Maurice Webb: my goodness. Hey, man, that work. Ugh. It's real talk. And- Yeah ... and, um, you know, God had to, God was like, "All right now. All right, you, you done had your fun now."
Lawrence Flowers: Mm-hmm.
Maurice Webb: And what got me was I got my wallet got stole by some crackheads. Oh. Oh my goodness, wow. So I couldn't even, I couldn't even support my habit.
Right.
Lawrence Flowers: Oh, God.
Maurice Webb: I was out of money. And I had to sit it on down. Mm-hmm. So I was like, "Man, I, you know, I-" Made you sit down ... it made me sit down. And that, and he just, you know, he work, he worked with me, and I'm, I'm in a, I'm in a healthy relationship now, and we're taking it very slow. Mm-hmm. And I'm, I'm appreciative for her.
And, and- Yeah ... no, no, no activity until we get married, so you know what I'm saying? Yeah. That's good. So I'm back on, I'm back on the right. I got saved again. That's what I'm trying to say. There you go. Amen. Right, right. I got saved again. I was, I was out there backsliding, but I got my life together.
Lawrence Flowers: Absolutely.
Al The Great: I think, I think what you said, one thing that would be, I think would be helpful for men who are just getting out of divorce, I think for men in [00:36:00] general, and me and one of my friends was talking about this, we was having this conversation about there are certain things as men that we were taught is almost like a right.
It's, it's a need. And when I say need, I mean need like drinking water, eating food.
Lawrence Flowers: Mm-hmm.
Al The Great: And we've been taught that sex is almost like a right. It is a, it is a, a need. Men have needs. Even when I've been in, like, marriage counseling, I had a, a pastor say that- ... you know, the, the man empties every two days, and you need to, I mean, he fills up every two days, and was telling my wife at the time, "You need to help him empty.
Every two days, you need to give it to him." Yeah. And at the time I was like, "See?" I was like, "See? She on
Joe Woolworth: my
Al The Great: side." Yeah. But after I have gotten to this place and I've, I've grown, I realized, like, it's, it's, it's a want. Yeah. It is, it's a good to have. It is something that it brings you close. It is how men express [00:37:00] themselves.
It, it's a lot of things, but it's not a need. You can go without it. And, and once you kind of, I think when you realize that, especially when you are out there and you're free again, like we talking about-
Lawrence Flowers: Mm-hmm ...
Al The Great: if you put that in perspective, thinking about what are your actual needs as a man- Why do you need it?
What is the root of it? And then that's gonna help you not m- make a lot of mistakes. Not get out here and just, like, and really just kinda burn yourself out, and really just, like, bleed all over everybody else, and just hurt a lot of h- lot of other people, and hurt yourself in the process.
Lawrence Flowers: Mm-hmm. I guess that goes back to the thing of hurt people hurt people.
"So you know what? You know, I've been hurt this way, so I'm going to sleep with whoever, do whatever, and then if they get hurt, hey." You know, that ty- that mentality. Not saying that that's what I did, but I'm just saying based off what the context. Right. But, um, yeah. So I guess looking [00:38:00] back, you know, what would I tell myself, myself when I was in that painful situation of this new divorce?
I guess, The marriage is over, but life isn't over. Mm. 'Cause for me, I went into a deep down depression. So like I, you know, I didn't have women coming in and out the door. I was in the house by myself, depressed, depressed. Um, so for me, it was a thing of- Not many people- ... you know what? Leaning in God Leaning on God.
I know that's the Christian answer, but for real, leaning on God and be like, "You know what? God is gonna bring me through this," you know? I'm not the only person who's ever been through a divorce, you know, and I'll probably be the last person to go through a divorce, but you know what? I'm good. I'm gonna be okay.
Even those moments where I didn't feel okay, those moments where it was like, "You know what? Um, this is not what my life was supposed to be." But you know what? Getting to the place of, "You know what? I'm gonna be okay." And then I was able to move on and start dating again, 'cause like I [00:39:00] think I waited till I started getting away from the depressed state before I started dating again.
Um, got an awesome young lady right now. Working on some things. But, um, for me, it was I was so depressed, I, all I wanted was my ex-wife, honestly. Mm. When I was going through my depression, I did not want another woman. I did not want to move on. I did- I'm like, I'm still, even at the separation, for about a year, I'm just like, "Things are gonna turn around.
Things are gonna turn around." I hear about the stories about people, like I know people who got divorced and then got remarried to their ex. They didn't have to fuss. But, uh Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah ... I've heard of stories like that. So it's just like, you know, I'm thinking that's gonna be my story. But as life continues on, it's like, "You know what?
I'm good." You know, I just accept what was. We had a good run. We had two beautiful young daughters out of it. Accept the way life is and move on. So that was my story of when I first got divorced and just going through my [00:40:00] healing journey.
Maurice Webb: Yeah. For real. No, I, I, um, I, I was ready to go. It was, it was done. It was over.
Lawrence Flowers: Mm.
Maurice Webb: Um, I, I stayed, um, in the home, you know, to the bitter end. So- Mm ... and I asked the Lord for a release.
Lawrence Flowers: Mm-hmm.
Maurice Webb: And when the Lord granted me, um, a release from that that was it. Um, you know, there was some trying to be friends kinda thing going on a little bit, but I mean, at the end of the day it's just best we go our separate ways.
And, um, I'm, I'm glad for it, because it allowed me to really find myself. I mean, I wrapped a lot, I got married when I was 20, man, so you know, my whole life was wrapped up in that relationship. And now, I'm talking about the freedom a little bit. Once you get on the other side of the ... Like, you know, we got, we got the like fun stuff, but then it's like the other side of freedom too is just being able to be Just being able to sit with yourself and not hate [00:41:00] yourself.
Denniston A. Muir: Right.
Maurice Webb: You know? Yes. Appreciate the things that you have accomplished, you know, all of that g- good stuff. So just getting on the other side of that, man, it's just, it's been like, "Wow, you know what? I'm a cool dude. I actually got some things going on in my life." Absolutely. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, I, like, you know, compared to, comparatively speaking, like I'm doing all right.
Right. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, even when all of this has happened to me- Mm-hmm ... I'm still all right. I'm still good. Now, one of the things I did, I got a piece of advice was- When you, when you get out of a place where you've been living with somebody and things like that, I did not go and get the biggest, baddest apartment.
I had a one bedroom, like it was just, it was just a little shack, right?
Lawrence Flowers: Mm-hmm.
Maurice Webb: I did that on purpose because I needed that motivation again.
Lawrence Flowers: Mm.
Maurice Webb: I needed something to motivate me, get back on that grind. Mm. Get back to doing the things that you've been doing, and 'cause I knew I wanted to live a certain way.
Denniston A. Muir: Right.
Maurice Webb: So being there, I was like, [00:42:00] "Okay, I'm gonna give, give this one year." And, um, and it worked, man. Yeah. 'Cause it really pushed me to say, "I ain't gonna be here that long. I ain't putting nothing on the walls."
Denniston A. Muir: Mm-hmm. "
Maurice Webb: I'm just here as a holding spot for a moment to get myself together emotionally." And then when it was like, all right, enough is enough, my money had started to just get a little bit better.
Mm-hmm. My, my situation turned around a little bit more, and where I'm at now is just like that second step because I didn't wanna do like this whole big extravagant lifestyle because now I'm a bachelor. Because for one, I knew I wanted to get married again, so I'm leaving room for that situation.
Lawrence Flowers: Yes,
Maurice Webb: sir.
I just need enough that's decent for me and the kids, and safe, and you know what I'm saying? That kind of thing. Mm-hmm. I'm there now. I'm at peace. I'm not spending a bunch of money on rent every month. It's not stressing me out. So that's, that's, that's one of the things I would say too is w- we as men, we wanna go and purchase our way into, [00:43:00] you know, finding ourself, and that's when you end up spending money that you really don't have.
Mm-hmm. And that becomes just another stressor in your life.
Lawrence Flowers: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Maurice Webb: You know what I mean?
Lawrence Flowers: Mm-hmm.
Maurice Webb: It, it just becomes more s- it becomes compounded stress- Yeah ... that now you can't blame nobody else. You did that, bro. Yeah. You bought that Corvette. It's your fault. You said, you, you said you wanted to live your best life.
Mm-hmm. And that hurt that hurt way worse. Right. That made like worse, not better. 'Cause you ain't got nobody to blame but yourself. Right.
Lawrence Flowers: You, yeah. Wait
Maurice Webb: a minute, you
Lawrence Flowers: could be talking to yourself.
Maurice Webb: So I would just say you have to intentionally take your time rebuilding, you know. Even if you're fi- if you didn't have a real bad financial situation, still just take your time because it's a lot of emotions.
Mm-hmm. And emotions is where you start making bad decisions with money. Yeah. You, you spend it on a woman. Mm-hmm. You spend it on material things. You just doing too much. So just take your time, man.
Lawrence Flowers: Mm-hmm.
Maurice Webb: And we need that time to just really rebuild. They say it take what? About two, three years to really- Bounce back [00:44:00] from just the, the trauma of divorce.
Um, and then you go into that place of, you know, trying to really rebuild your life and things like that. Some guys probably could do it a little faster because they got more resources, but at the end of the day, that re- that emotional state is a, is a big part of it.
Lawrence Flowers: Oh, yeah. I, I totally agree. And dealing with the emotions, you know, how was the conversation with the kids?
Like how did, how did, I know what mine was like. I sat them, we sat them down and had a conversation, and I'll talk a little bit about mine. But what were you guys convers- all, all of us have kids. What were you guys' conversations like when you talked to your kids and, "Hey, Mommy and Daddy are no longer gonna be together"?
Maurice Webb: Wow.
Al The Great: For me, the conversation-
Maurice Webb: Give me the age range too so I can get perspective.
Al The Great: Yeah, so I, I, my kids are, you know, I have four kids. One is a, an adult. I think the hardest conversation was actually with him. Mm-hmm. Interesting. Was, so you know, that still continues to be a conversation because he was like, you know, "God doesn't believe in [00:45:00] divorce.
And you know, want nobody cheating, like y'all still need to be married. You out here, if you get married again, you know, you living in sin." So you know, that continues to be a conversation, and me and him have talked about grace and faith and like, you know, talked about the Bible and, and I just, you know, you just have to give him his space and you just have to move on.
With my younger kids, I thought, I thought they were gonna take it a lot harder than they did. You know, my younger ones, I have 8, 10, and, and 13 right now. And they had, what kept playing back in my mind is we did like a crafts, we used to do a lot of arts and crafts, and they made this, I had some old wood and I was repurposing it, and they made this canvas.
And they colored it, they worked hard on it, and it said, "Daddy and Mommy, Daddy plus Mommy plus kids equals family." And it hung up in our dining room. And I just kept seeing that every time I would, you know, we would come back to we gotta have this conversation, I would just see that in my head, and I thought [00:46:00] they were gonna take it so hard.
And yeah, they took it hard, but it was, it was they've recovered a lot better than I thought because I, I made sure to be honest with them, be transparent with them, and, and to tell them our relationship wasn't healthy.
Denniston A. Muir: Mm.
Al The Great: You know, yeah, we weren't fussing and fighting and no police were called and you didn't, you didn't see all the tension and, you know, 'cause w- to everybody else, they were like, "Why are you getting divorced?"
They, they never saw anything.
Denniston A. Muir: Mm-hmm.
Al The Great: But I was like, it still was not healthy. And I realized, and you know, talking to, to them, it's better to have a, a healthy one-parent home than a unhealthy two-parent home. Mm-hmm. Like peace is so, so much more important than we realize, and if they don't get anything else out of my decision, her decision, you know, what we're going through, I want them to value peace more than anything else.
And I, I, that's what I continue to teach them. And also, like, it's not a one conversation. It's a, [00:47:00] it's like we- it's, it's been several years down the road, we still having conversations. How is you che- I'm checking in with them, "How you doing?" You know, I have a girlfriend, you know, it, it took, like, a couple years before they met her.
Like, it's like a continuous conversation. But, you know, while I was ready to move on, that doesn't mean that they were ready to move on. Mm. So I had to give them their space. Also, I had to be honest with them, like, "Mommy and Daddy not getting back together." Like, we- it's, it's not, it's not happening, y'all. I know y'all want it to, but it's, it's not happening, and I need to be able to move on.
And I'll give you your space and I'll, I'll give you your time because, you know, it's, it's still hard for them to think about me having somebody else that's not their mama. And I'm like, I was like, "Y'all, I can't... My happiness can't be dependent on you guys. Like, I have to, I have to move on. Long as, as long as you okay, you healthy, you know, m- my girlfriend is being good to you, like, we gotta move on, y'all."
Denniston A. Muir: Mm. Um, so I was sitting in my head calculating the, the ages [00:48:00] of mine. So they were very young. Um, my youngest was just turning 1, and my oldest was turning 5. Um, and so they didn't have the full understanding of what was going on. Um- I got kinda taken back because I remember when, you know, their mom was trying to...
The way she approached it was completely wrong, but she was trying to say, tell them what was going on. I didn't completely agree, so I didn't stick around for that conversation 'cause I didn't like the way it was being handled. When I was able to actually talk to at least my oldest, again, they were very young, so they don't really understand.
So now all they think they realize that they have two places to live. Yeah. So I try to make it and spin it in that way of like, "Hey, now you got two homes." You know? Mm-hmm. "Now you got..." Mm-hmm. You know? And, and so as they [00:49:00] grew up, just like you said, it's a continuous conversation. So as they grew up, certain things I had to explain, and certain things I had to make especially clear.
Like he said, like, "Mommy and Daddy's definitely not getting back together. Like, that's not happening." So I had to make that clear and reestablish that. But, um, I think over time they got used to it. Mm. And so I don't get those questions anymore. I don't get certain things that I have to explain any longer.
Um, my whole thing has always been what's best for them, and how to still be a great father to them, so they've always been the priority. So even within the conversation, things that I'm mindful of, things that I say, the things that I, I do and act, I always prioritize them first, and I always make them, um, make them feel as if they still have Daddy in their life.
Like, I fought hard even for the joint custody. I put that in motion because I didn't want anything to ever come in [00:50:00] between us, and I didn't want that hindrance. I, I, you know, some things happened last year that did cause hindrance, and I took a different approach this year. But my thing is co-parenting doesn't have to be complex.
What makes it complex is people's personal feelings and their personal emotions- Mm-hmm ... that they're going to use the kids because they know that's your sore spot. They're gonna use that- Mm ... to weaponize against you, and that's what I've dealt with the most. And, um, my whole deal is, like, I, I don't, I don't use the kids as a pawn.
I- if there's something that's going on that's going on on my time, as much as I, I don't want to be away from them, I still let them go. I'm like, "Okay, well, if they wanna do this, then let them do this. If they wanna have fun, then let them have fun." Yeah. But my priority is always my kids, and so the divorce thing, the, you know, that, what hit me hardest about the divorce in itself was the kids, was splitting up the home, and I think I talked about [00:51:00] this too.
Mm-hmm. It was like that's the only part that really damaged me the most. Um, because to be honest, if it, if it was just me and her and she wasn't even pregnant in the first year, then we wouldn't have made it, um, me just straight up and, and that's, that's just what it is. But between my prayers, faith in God, I'm like, "Man, look, I have the responsibility of being a fa- of, of being a father, so I'm gonna do everything I possibly can to keep this family together," and that's what I did.
Mm-hmm. So when it really did come time to, like, really talk to the kids or really have that conversation, that was probably the hardest part 'cause I'm like, "Man," like, "that's the reality of it," like, "we're really breaking up this home." Yeah. So, um, like I said, unfortunately, they were very young, so they didn't understand, and so I had to have these repetitive conversations as they got older to help them understand what's going on, to help them under you know, cope with what's going on.
And like I said, I keep putting a positive spin, like, "Hey, you got Mommy's house. You got Daddy's house. You got two homes," you know, got this and that. Mm-hmm. And I try to do all I can to keep them happy. [00:52:00]
Maurice Webb: Yeah.
Al The Great: Yeah. And let me clarify, like, my kids are that age now. They were ... This was, like, some years ago. I don't even
I, I trying to even do that math.
Denniston A. Muir: Right. Exactly. It was a few years ago, yeah. That's what I'm thinking. So, like, okay, let's subtract this. Like, okay. I, I think the five and one might even be wrong, but yeah. I think, I think that's what it was.
Maurice Webb: Yeah. Um, for me, my daughters, I have three daughters by, by my previous marriage and they're twins that are 16 now, and, um, my youngest is 8 all beautiful young ladies.
Um, and let me just shout them out. My twins are 4.0 students, both of them.
Lawrence Flowers: All right. Okay.
Maurice Webb: Nice. Um, and my daughter, one of them, she's on the track team. She just was awarded last week as one of the six of the 20 kids on the track team having 4.0 and maintaining that throughout the entire conference.
Mm, sweet. So, um, so I say that to say that they have not skipped a beat through this whole [00:53:00] process. Mm-hmm. And it has not been pretty. It has not, it's still things happening right now. Mm-hmm. Um, so you know, that's ... Thank you guys for the group chat, too, so. I have not handled it well with that when it came to my dating life and the kids.
Um, I think there was a sense of a little bit of frustration for me having to hide my dating life while she gets to kinda have hers publicly.
Lawrence Flowers: Mm-hmm.
Maurice Webb: That really bothered me because it was like You get to kinda like move on and build your new family, and then it's like, but these are my kids, and it just feel like everything has been taken from me.
Denniston A. Muir: Right.
Maurice Webb: Mm-hmm. And so once I started dating, um, it was like I wanted to now start doing that, and it was not received well by my twin daughters. Um- Mm. Mm ... it, it was, it was not at all. I mean, they gave me an earful about it, and [00:54:00] it caused a riff in our relationship. So I'm having to now s- walk that back some-
Lawrence Flowers: Mm-hmm
Maurice Webb: and try to s- be a little bit more sensitive to that, and just being a man and having daughters, man, I've never been a girl. So I'm trying to understand from their w- from where they're sitting.
Lawrence Flowers: Right.
Maurice Webb: Mm-hmm. Um, they were like, "Daddy, we, we, you know, you just threw it on us." Mm-hmm. And I'm like, "You know what?
Let me be vulnerable here. Let me, let me acknowledge this and, um, not try to get defensive about it-
Lawrence Flowers: Right.
Maurice Webb: Mm-hmm ... and just learn from this." So I'm trying to be in their life the way that they need me and want me to be in their life now. My youngest daughter, she's kinda like ... She's, she's still got that real nurturing side, so, you know, it's the, "Daddy can't do no wrong, but Daddy, can you, um, can you buy me a new some new shoes?"
You know what I'm saying? And I'm trying not to get into that- Yeah ... whereas, like, [00:55:00] every time- Every- ... you see me now- Yeah ... I'm buying you something. Right. Mm-hmm. I'm trying not to do that.
Lawrence Flowers: Please
Maurice Webb: don't. 'Cause I don't wanna ... You ain't playing that game with me.
Lawrence Flowers: Right.
Maurice Webb: Mm-hmm. You know? And, you know, it's like, "Tell your daddy.
Tell your daddy. Tell your daddy." And I'm like, "Yo, wait, wh- wh- hold on now." So, um, so I'm learning how to set boundaries with my youngest daughter, like, "Daddy ain't buying you something every time you come over here, okay?" Mm-hmm. "I'm the prize. We, we gonna have this ... We gonna sit down and read some books and- Mm-hmm
and, and, um, draw some pictures." You know? Right. Like, we ain't doing, we ain't going to Storytime. That's free. That's free. We're not doing that. We're not doing that. But, um, so I'm, I'm struggling with that a little bit, so- Mm-hmm ... that's a area for me right now that I'm working through. Yeah. But I'm not running from it.
Mm. And I've talked to my girlfriend about it, and she understands. Mm. So she's been giving me some insight as well, just to how to kind of take it slower. So, um, so, so I've kinda backed off of trying to introduce somebody new to them right now-
Denniston A. Muir: Mm-hmm ...
Maurice Webb: and just kinda keep things separate. Mm. But also letting them see me [00:56:00] living my life.
Denniston A. Muir: Mm-hmm.
Maurice Webb: Mm-hmm. Right? So I'm not hiding phone calls and things like that. Right.
Denniston A. Muir: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Maurice Webb: I'm just not merging those worlds right now.
Denniston A. Muir: Yeah.
Maurice Webb: I'm keeping those worlds safely where they are, but letting both sides know, "Okay, this is, this is the way I'm moving." Right. Mm-hmm. Like, at some point now, like, I'm not gonna live in two separate worlds, because that's too much for me.
Right.
Al The Great: Yeah. I think it's a, it's a, it's a balancing act for anybody who's going through this, the same situation. It's a balancing act because you have this parent guilt where You wanna make sure that your kids are good, and you wanna, you wanna do what they, what they say and make sure they are just, like, comfortable, and you just wanna let them kinda lead with this.
But as this, as a whole individual, you also know you gotta take care of yourself.
Lawrence Flowers: Yeah.
Al The Great: And at the end of the day, they little kids. 'Cause I, I, I remember my kids saying, I was... 'Cause, 'cause they didn't want me to move on. Mm-hmm. You know, it had been some, some [00:57:00] some time, and they didn't want me to g- move on, and I was like, I was like, "Don't y'all..."
And I asked them, I was like, "Don't y'all care about y- your dad's, you know, happiness?" Mm-hmm. And they said, "No."
Maurice Webb: They were honest.
Al The Great: They were
Maurice Webb: honest.
Al The Great: They were honest. It's like, "No, we want you, we want you, we don't want another mama." I
Maurice Webb: can, I can agree that my daughter just yesterday said, she was like, "I had a dream that you and mommy got back together."
And listen, this how I play it. I was like, "Oh, for real?" And now in my head I'm like, "No, we ain't." "No, we ain't." But I'm like, "I ain't gonna crush your little dream." Yeah. I'ma let you have it. Oh, that's good. And then on the cal- on the calendar, I don't even know why I should put this on camera, but she was like, "You don't have mommy's birthday on there."
I'm like, "Oh, okay okay, that's, that's cool."
Al The Great: Look, look, I woulda, I woulda said, "Look, you gotta crush her dreams." Like- You don't leave them with that expectation. Mm-hmm. And I had to tell my kids, I was like, "Y'all, y'all not, y'all not in charge of my happiness."
Maurice Webb: Like- No, but check, check it out, Al, this is what I, this is, so on my phone it's a picture of me and my lady on my, on my screensaver.
Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. She like, "Who is that?" [00:58:00] I was like, "That's Daddy girlfriend." "Daddy got a girlfriend?" So, hey.
Al The Great: Yeah.
Maurice Webb: I ain't say much. You're right. But I'm letting you know I'm moving forward with my life. Moving forward, yes. And I'm not going back to that. Sure. I definitely
Lawrence Flowers: understand.
Maurice Webb: I, I'm like Tina Turner running down that corridor out, getting in that limo with Ike Turner.
When she ran out of that hotel- Mm ... and had no money, then said, "Look, I just need a place to stay tonight."
Al The Great: Yeah.
Maurice Webb: Mm-hmm. I'm gone.
Al The Great: Moving on. Yeah, so you, you gotta, you gotta make sure your kids are, are healthy and happy- Mm ... and give them some time, but you also gotta understand, like, they don't rule you- No ... in your house.
Mm-hmm. Like, y- once you've given them enough you know, a good amount of time, you've had conversations, the, the journey is still on- ongoing- Mm-hmm ... then you's like, "Look, Daddy, Daddy gotta move on."
Lawrence Flowers: I gotta move on. For sure. Right. And I definitely understand the two worlds thing because, you know, I used to have the picture of me and my young lady in a secret folder, 'cause my girls like to play on my phone.
So, like, I don't want them to see. I don't wanna accidentally see a pic- I mean, it's [00:59:00] nice picture, don't get it twisted. But pictures of her, like, yeah, I don't, I don't need any questions. Or, like, one time she called me and my youngest saw the name on the phone. "Daddy, who's that person?" I was like, "Um, um, that's Daddy friend."
You know, and it, you know, because at that time I was like, I don't, I didn't know how to introduce them to somebody.
Denniston A. Muir: Right.
Lawrence Flowers: You know, for their whole life all they knew was their mommy and daddy, so now it's like, okay- How am I gonna introduce this new person? And eventually I did, and it went very well. So like my, I mean, my girls, they're good with it.
You know, I, I didn't have to deal with unfortunate- I didn't have to deal with the battle and the, "Oh, you..." No, no, I didn't have that. They like, "Oh, we like her." Yeah. You know? Um, now I have had times where one of them was like, "Daddy, when's you and Mama getting back together?" I'm like, "No, we had this conversation.
You, we had a conversation. Mommy and Daddy are not getting back together. You know, Daddy is with this person," you know? Yeah. [01:00:00] So I definitely know the feeling of, you know, the kids wanting Mommy and Daddy to be back together, and be like, no, this is just not gonna happen.
Denniston A. Muir: Yeah.
Al The Great: I do think that's, that is part of the process, where you are hiding the other person.
It is an unfortunate thing, but you have to, also have to understand that they're, they're kids. Yeah. And you don't wanna introduce that person too soon- Mm ... before they're ready and before you're ready. Mm. And I know y- you want to, but I think that is part of the process. Sometimes you gotta, you j- you know, you got pictures.
Yeah. I went through the same thing. Yeah. You know, my kids get my phone all the time. Yeah. And just like, you don't want, you don't wanna do it. You don't wanna take that next step before it's time.
Lawrence Flowers: Correct. Great. And speaking of time, I know time is winding up. So let's just, I, I want, because there's a man out there listening to this conversation, and hearing and experiencing the same thing all of us are experiencing.
So what word of encouragement would you give the man watching right now, who is currently separated or recently divorced struggling to rebuild his life? What advice would you give him?
Al The Great: So, you know, mine is always gonna be get whole. You know, [01:01:00] and one of the, one of the ways that you know that you're whole, 'cause men are taught that women give us purpose, they give us value, they give us self-esteem.
You know, they kinda-- we are relying on them for all these things, whether we really know it or not. We are-- Men are just as dependent on, on women as women are dependent on men. Once you get to that place where you're no longer dependent on that other person, you have your value, you have, you know, self-esteem, you know that you're worth it, you are not trying to earn and trying to hustle your way to, to be this person, and you're just walking in it, that's when you know that you're ready.
Until then, you're going into that relationship with, with stress, putting stress already on it, and you're, you're, you're putting pressure, and you're almost, like, dooming it to fail. It is important to go into a relationship whole. She's whole, you whole, and then you have [01:02:00] the best chances of it, of it working and being a healthy relationship.
Maurice Webb: All right, Whip? I would say find your baseline. Um, look at your life as a whole, and start to look, look at what got you to this place. It probably wasn't just the divorce. It's probably deeper than that. It probably started in your childhood, and when you go back and you really start to look at your patterns even as a child, and things that you may not have gotten in your childhood, you realize that you might have wanted to have some fulfillment from having a per- another person in your life.
But we know that that's not really a healthy relationship, right? You get-- Talking about being whole, you have to come into the relationship already ready and healthy. Because you're just gonna bleed on that person, you're gonna put too much pressure on that person, you're gonna want them to do all of the things that somebody else didn't do in your life.
So find [01:03:00] your baseline, right? You know, I say look at your finances, right? The Bible says, "Where your treasure is, your heart will be also." So your money can tell you a very broad story about how you've been behaving, right? Do you buy stuff to make yourself feel better? Are you still emotional spending?
Um, to- do you have to be, look a certain way? It's like when you find that baseline, you realize none of that stuff mattered. We went through COVID and all of those expensive clothes people had, they couldn't wear them. And they realized, "You know what? I don't even need all of this stuff."
Lawrence Flowers: Mm.
Maurice Webb: So finding that baseline means going back to ground zero for yourself.
Now you get to choose to go to ground zero.
Lawrence Flowers: Mm.
Maurice Webb: Before you was forced. And so when you make the choice to go to ground zero and realize that, "You know what? I can actually build back stronger, better, faster if I learn why I made the decisions that I made in my life." And you come to realize it started way before [01:04:00] that divorce.
The divorce was just a product of the brokenness that was already there that never got addressed years before that, right? Mm-hmm. And okay, it happened. Now we have an opportunity to start over. You may start over with a lot of things that make life feel heavy, but if you learn to address them from a standpoint of, "Why did I get here in the first place?"
And find the answer to that question, I think you can really build something much more powerful than your previous life.
Lawrence Flowers: Dennison?
Denniston A. Muir: Um, my advice would be this. It would be, um, get therapy. Um- Yeah ... let's do that. And, and this is coming from a very prideful Mr. Fix It type dude. You know, technical analyst by nature.
I'm always the one that's in my mind of, "I can fix this, I can do this." Get therapy. Yeah. And the reason why I'm gonna say that is because that's what forced me to getting my breakthrough. Um, I don't know if they'll be watching this, but it's been conversations we [01:05:00] had, whether I've shown it or not, where my sessions have made me upset.
It have made me feel a certain type of way, made me feel angry, and here's why. Because my therapist challenged me and talked to me to force me to dig up the root of some things.
Lawrence Flowers: Exactly.
Denniston A. Muir: That was ... You know, it goes back to what I said earlier about, "Hey, I'm free. I'm just living life," never addressing it, right?
No, our conversations made me address it. And what, during the time of me addressing things, you start to realize where the root of certain situations came from, why you feel this way, why you're doing this, why you're doing that. And honestly, I don't think I would've got to that point if I didn't have a therapist that challenged me.
Not only with the challenges of having a therapist, but being honest. Be honest with yourself. Don't chase an image, chase reality. Focus on what you're really dealing with, what's, what's the task at hand, not living in la-la land or what if everything's perfect. No, [01:06:00] you're down on Earth. Yeah. Things have gone wrong.
Now we gotta focus on how we're gonna fix it. And so when you're- Well, what I can speak personally is once my mind shifted into that- Yeah ... "Okay, I wanna be better, therefore I gotta put the work in to be better." And now I'm addressing the reality of things that are affecting my life. Now I'm changing it with a different perspective.
All that I can attribute to my therapist. Because if it wasn't for them challenging me in a particular way and thinking about certain things, like I said, yeah, some of those conversations where we- I sign off, I probably sign off with a smile. But inside I was boiling, like, "Why'd we have to talk about that?
Why'd we have to bring that up?" Mm. But what it was doing was building the r- bu- bringing up the root of my issues. Mm-hmm. And now that I can address, "Oh, this is why I feel this way, this is what I'm going through, this is why I'm thinking this way," that way you're not in your own head, and I can do that.
Um, and so what I would encourage any man out there struggling with divorce, or you don't even have to be struggling with divorce, just, [01:07:00] just struggling in general, and you need somebody to talk to, get out of your own head, get out of your own space, and see a therapist.
Lawrence Flowers: Good stuff, fellas. I appreciate all three of you guys.
Hey, it's time to wrap it up. If you're watching tonight and you're hurting, remember this: healing is not a straight line. Some days you'll feel strong, some days you'll feel broken. Some days you'll miss what was, some days you'll be excited about what's next. But keep moving forward. You're not alone, you're not a failure, and your story is not over.
I would like to take the time to thank Denniston, Maurice, and Al The Great for coming and being part of this honest conversation. Until next time, keep healing, keep growing, and keep having real talk [01:08:00]