Journey to the Sunnyside | Mindful Drinking & Alcohol Health

Today I’m joined by Megan Klein, founder of Little Saints. Megan built Little Saints after realizing the cocktail ritual she loved was starting to cost her more than she wanted to pay. She didn’t want to give up going out, having fun, or raising a glass at the end of the day. She just wanted alcohol to take up less space. In this episode, we talk about the work-hard, drink-hard pattern, why non-alcoholic drinks are not just for people who quit, and how to drink less without losing the ritual or the party. If you’ve ever wanted better options around alcohol without feeling like you’re changing your whole life, this one is for you.

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Creators and Guests

Host
Mike Hardenbrook
#1 best-selling author of "No Willpower Required," neuroscience enthusiast, and habit change expert.

What is Journey to the Sunnyside | Mindful Drinking & Alcohol Health?

Exploring the science of drinking less, from alcohol cravings and habit change to moderation, naltrexone, and building a healthier relationship with alcohol. Whether you're sober curious, cutting back, or thinking about quitting, this podcast meets you where you are.

Journey to the Sunnyside is a top 1% podcast reaching over 500,000 listeners every week. Through expert interviews, neuroscience research, and real stories, we cover what actually works — mindful drinking, behavior change, medication-assisted approaches, harm reduction, and more.

Hosted by Mike Hardenbrook, #1 best-selling author and neuroscience enthusiast. Brought to you by Sunnyside, the leading program for changing your relationship with alcohol. Start your free trial at sunnyside.co.

Disclaimer: The views expressed in our episodes do not necessarily represent those of Sunnyside. If you're concerned about your drinking, please consult a medical professional. This podcast is not medical advice.

Speaker 1:

Today I'm joined by Megan Klein, founder of Little Saints. Megan built Little Saints after realizing the cocktail ritual she loved was starting to cost her more than she wanted to pay. She didn't want to give up going out, having fun, or raising a glass at the end of the day. She just wanted alcohol to take up less space. In this episode, we talk about the work hard, drink hard pattern.

Speaker 1:

Why non alcoholic drinks are not just for people who quit, and how to drink less without losing the ritual or the party. If you've ever wanted better options around alcohol without feeling like you're changing your whole life, this one is for you. Megan, thanks for coming on today.

Speaker 2:

Mike, I'm so happy we're doing this. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

Well, first of all, I wanna thank you for sending me the little care package from Little Saints last week. I really enjoyed it. As I told you, I drink all of them over the weekend. So I'm looking forward to hearing the entire story around this. But it's not just a story around little stains.

Speaker 1:

This is a story around your own personal journey when it comes to alcohol, and part of that came through an experience during the pandemic. So why don't we start with what changed during that time?

Speaker 2:

Well, during the pandemic, I was some people moved to Tulum during the pandemic, and I moved to Detroit alone during the pandemic. And I love Detroit, and I am a Midwesterner. I grew up in Wisconsin. I was living in Chicago, then I moved to Detroit because Little Saints originally was gonna be a microdose THC edibles company. And then I was living alone in Detroit, and I'd always been like, oh, you know, this is my third wellness CPG company.

Speaker 2:

So I had a salad dressing and dip company. I had a juice company. I had a hydroponic basil farm. So I've been like, you know, really I think I've been healthy during the day for a very long time. And then, you know, every night, I would just, like, go out for a couple of cocktails because I would see friends or, you know, it just felt like part of life.

Speaker 2:

And then during the pandemic, I was kind of, like, having those cocktails by myself. And that was the first time that I really started to be very conscious of the way that was affecting my emotional state and my mental state and, of course, the headache. But it was more so just my energy. I just realized that during the day, was, like, a little bit foggy. I just felt like I was having to have a bunch of copies to get up to baseline, and that's when I just really started kind of rethinking, like or just being conscious about how drinking was affecting my day to day energy.

Speaker 2:

That's when I started thinking about Little Saints because after drinking a swimming pool of Negronis in 2020 in January oh my god. What was your pandemic? Did you have a pandemic drink?

Speaker 1:

My drink was always wine.

Speaker 2:

Always wine. Okay. Yeah. Always wine. Pandemic drink was, like, Negronis, every kind of Campari, every kind of gin, every kind of vermouth.

Speaker 2:

Like, I just like, every Negroni was made by me. And then in I tried, you know, dry January. I done tried dry January multiple times, and then I succeeded dry January 2021, and I bought all of the nonalcoholic options that were out there. And I had my Detroit dining table full of them And, like, lots of great brands that are still there today, but everything was full of sugar. And I was like, well, if I'm gonna cut down on alcohol, I'm also trying to cut down on sugar.

Speaker 2:

Nothing had a really great nose to it. Like, you're a wine drinker. You know? You drink you like, let's like, the the aroma and the nose to it is part of the reason why we love alcohol, it gives us a positive association. And then nothing had a really great, like, functional mushroom in it.

Speaker 2:

And I've been, like, using mushrooms in my coffee for decades. I know that they take the edge off. They kinda smooth things out and make me feel a sense of ease. And that's when I got the idea for how I wanted to formulate Littlese. I wanted something that was, zero sugar with a really good functional mushroom that had, like, a smell, so it was very cocktail adjacent.

Speaker 1:

So it sounds like maybe during this change, you weren't like, I'm gonna remove this thing and alcohol and just move on with my life. Did you recognize that I have absolutely gotta replace it with something?

Speaker 2:

Oh, yeah. I mean, I just feel like my entire social life with people, my entire, like, after work wind down ritual, my entire, like, evenings always been centered around some sort of raising a glass to my lips. Like, that kind of signals, like, the end of the day, it's time to take the edge off, you know, like, meeting people for a drink. I mean, I even though I don't drink alcohol anymore, I still ask people to go out for a drink all the time. I just feel like that's part of things.

Speaker 2:

And I had seen therapists and stuff before that would be like, you know, you have to stop drinking and you have to, like, stop hanging out with all your friends. You know? You kinda, like, need to, like, create a new lifestyle. And I'd like, I don't wanna create a night new lifestyle. I like my lifestyle.

Speaker 2:

I like going out to eat. I like going to concerts. I like, like, going out. Like, I didn't wanna stop drinking. I just, like, didn't wanna have so much alcohol, like, in my body.

Speaker 1:

One of the people that we know that's a mutual friend that connected us is, like, super social guy. And so I imagine that you're the same way. And you said something there, like, going out for a drink. Yeah. You absolutely can.

Speaker 1:

There are no rules. Now if you go for out for a drink and that leads to bad consequences for you, then maybe that becomes a rule. But that doesn't necessarily need to be the bar that you have to set immediately for yourself. You know you. You knew you.

Speaker 1:

So I love that you did that, and you didn't wanna, like, develop this new lifestyle. I'm always curious to know this because it sounds like later in life, this was something that became an issue that might not have been something that you thought about even if it was somewhat of an issue maybe looking back. But what do you think it is for you that makes high functioning people fall into this rhythm?

Speaker 2:

I think it's, like, the need to relieve stress, I think, when you're under so much pressure. I can just only speak for myself. You know, I've been an entrepreneur for, my god, almost fifteen years now. And before that, I was a lawyer. You know, I went to law school.

Speaker 2:

I was like a lawyer in a big firm. So I've always had high pressure jobs since I've been an adult. And I I've ever since my first job, you know, like, met people after work and, like, kind of had drinks. And I think, you know, it is important to have some way to relax your nervous system when you are like, if if you're stressed out all day long, like, you need an off switch. And I never really learned an off switch that wasn't alcohol until about four years ago or until, I guess, five years ago because I started little saints five years ago.

Speaker 2:

I started to, like, learn that off switch. I just think that, you know, it's a stressful, like, world that we live in, and we're all looking for the quick fix all the time. Right? And so, like, alcohol is a really quick fix. I mean, it has a lot of side effects to it, but I think that's why so many high performers kind of fall into this.

Speaker 2:

What do you think?

Speaker 1:

I think you're right. I think it's it's a quick fix. It has a high what I call high likelihood to outcomes. So the likelihood of you having a drink to reach the outcome, which is to feel more relaxed, is like almost a 100%. Whereas, like, let's say you go do yoga or you do meditation.

Speaker 1:

Maybe 85%, 90% of the time, you feel like you got what you achieved. So it has this high likelihood to outcome. And for that reason, it gets so automated in the brain as this is the easy button for us, and we know it works. And so I think interrupting it and, of course, doing mindfulness and healthy activities, going out, having conversations can get you through those hard times. But I, myself, know, and I know others do.

Speaker 1:

Sometimes you're like, I just need something right now. Like, I need a drink in my hand. I wanna consume something, but not alcohol. So I think that that's why I love what you're doing here. That's why I like these alternatives because I get bored with seltzer water as much as I love it.

Speaker 1:

I don't drink sugary sodas and things like that. So when I'm in those moments where, like, yeah, I can do mindfulness. Yeah. I can do some breath work. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I can go for a walk. But sometimes I want something else.

Speaker 2:

Totally. And all those things that you talked about, which I also do, they take time and they take, like, effort. You know? That's why I think we love, like, having a drink so much because it's like crack open a can or, like, pour a big bottle into glass and sip. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

What I'm drinking right now in my martini glass for anyone that can't see is little Saint Saint Ember. And this has, like, a really great supplement grade lion's mane in it, and it gives me, like, I feel, like, a little bit of a sense of ease. I'm on my second glass right now. Like, I'm talking to Mike. I feel like we are having a drink together.

Speaker 2:

Flask box. Do it. I'm in no rush.

Speaker 1:

So tell me about this because I think some people might be interested to know. There are a lot of NA alternatives. Not all of them have things like mushrooms in them. Why did you choose mushrooms, and what are what was the thought process behind that? Because I know that you have different formulations between different drinks that you have.

Speaker 2:

So for me, if I was going to substitute something in place of alcohol, it needed to, like, make me feel something. Like, Little Saved definitely is not intoxicating. Our mushrooms are non psychoactive. They're not intoxicating. But I was always looking for that nervous system relaxer, you know, like some sort of just a mild take the edge off because, like, I would feel, you know, I feel a sense of a little bit of anxiety, like either, like, a little mini bit of social anxiety or a little, you know, like, work anxiety, and I want something to take that down.

Speaker 2:

And I knew from, like, putting it in my coffee for a long time that it really, like, took the edge, like, the anxiety off coffee. So I thought, like, okay. And then then I worked with some people who knew what they were doing. So we formulated these. I, like, consulted a food scientist with their masters in adaptogens and a neuroscience adviser.

Speaker 2:

Just really, like, okay. If we're chasing that first sip of wine feeling, what is gonna give that to us? And so we have, like, a supplement grade, like, most premium on the market, organic Reishi mushroom and organic lion's mane mushroom extract to geek out for a second. The potent part of a mushroom is found in the beta glucon. Beta glucon is a fiber that holds, like, adaptogenic properties.

Speaker 2:

Adaptogenics are, like, things that help our body respond to stress. So reishi mushroom is like a chill kind of sense of ease, take the edge off. And lion's mane, it gives you a sense of clarity. Like, I put lion's mane in Saint Ember, which is sort of like a light mezcal alternative because I don't know about you, but when I had a sip of tequila, would feel, like, super smart. And I wanted that feeling of, like, we're talking, and I'm like, I'm so smart right now.

Speaker 1:

One other thing that you mentioned there that I think is important, especially when people are thinking about cutting back, is you didn't want all this sugar, but sugar is something that people tend to crave when they are cutting back on alcohol. This was a problem that you had, and this is actually a problem that I have, is that I want something that has good taste, that has sweetness to it, but I don't want something fake and artificial with all the sort of scary headlines between brain health and gut health that are associated with artificial sweeteners. But, also, I didn't want sugar. So tell me how you approach that.

Speaker 2:

Well, you're trying to decrease inflammation and, like, all the bad associations that I experienced in my body with alcohol, which was, like, headache, inflammation, red face. I would feel like I was, like, a little bit wrinkly, and then the brain fog that you get, like, during the holidays when you've had all that sugar, like, that was exactly what I was trying to not have. So, you know, I wanted to make sure that our canned cocktails and our bottled spirits, like, weren't gonna add to the sugar situation because we all know that we're still gonna, like, have sugar in the rest of our life. But I think the best part about Little Saints and drinking a non elk that's zero sugar is that, like, you can have a lot of them. You know?

Speaker 2:

So you're not it's not like you're gonna have one that has 15 grams of sugar and then be like, oh, I can't have any more, but you always probably want more than one drink or I always want more than one drink. You know? So you I just wanted something that I could have four of. Like, I used to have four cocktails and, like, not have any guilt over it and not have any, like, you know, physical effects that weren't gonna be good. So anyways, it was really important to be at zero sugar.

Speaker 2:

And then, of course, it has to be clean because, like, no one wants to have, like, erythritol or, you know, sucralose or any of those kind of, like like you said, gut disturbing zero sugar sweeteners. So we work with pure monk fruit juice concentrate. And it's funny. In the beginning, I started Little Saints by selling cans out of a mint green vending trailer that I named baby mint. It was in Detroit.

Speaker 2:

And I sold for the first six months, I, like, sold face to face. I wasn't selling on our website yet, and I was getting feedback from people. And in those first six months, the first formulations of Little Saints had stevia in them. And I didn't they had a really nice stevia leaf extract. There wasn't anything weird in there.

Speaker 2:

But I didn't realize, like, how much people that hate stevia, like, really hate stevia. So I would, like, look at them face to face and, like, see just, like, like, these horrible reactions. And so then I learned to remove stevia from the formula, make sure that we could just get the purest monk fruit juice concentrate, and that's, like, what we use to sweeten the cans. And then the bottled spirits don't have any sweetener in them. So there's no monk fruit, and there's no nothing in there's nothing in them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. If I wanna ruin my coffee, I put Stevie in it. For me, personally, I just can't I can't handle it, but I love monk fruit. I think monk fruit is, like, the greatest. I'll add it to Greek yogurt or whatever if I wanna just add a little bit of something without feeling guilty about it.

Speaker 1:

So oh, I such a great entrepreneurial story of getting out of the building literally and speaking to your first customers. And, you know, that little insight probably alone not only saved you money from having to mass produce and then pull back, but gave you the insights to something that people like even more.

Speaker 2:

Oh, for sure. They would mostly be coming up to the trailer with a beer on their hand because we were at a lot of, like, outdoor events where there would be other drinks. So, like, everyone was, like, still drinking, and no one was coming up to me being like, I wanna quit alcohol. It was all very similar stories to me. Like, I've been drinking too much because it was, like, kind of still pandemic, and, like, I just wanna cut down.

Speaker 2:

And a lot of people you know, little saints means mushrooms because they bring joy and connection. So I would be, you know, talking about the lion's mane and the reishi mushroom. And a lot of people during the pandemic had, like, gotten into mushrooms, like functional mushrooms, psychedelic mushrooms. You know? Like, mushrooms were kind of like a thing that people turn to during the pandemic.

Speaker 2:

And so it's through those conversations that I really learned what was important to people and most importantly, to simplify. I was using too many words. Like, I was like, terpenes, mushrooms, adaptogens, blah blah blah blah blah. And and it was like, you know what people want? They want a zero sugar cocktail that makes sense to them.

Speaker 2:

And then as an added bonus, they're happy that the mushrooms are good for them. But, like, too many words, like, killed the conversation. And then people were like, wait, I don't wanna be, like, in some science fiction right now. Like, I'm just trying to have a good time. So that really taught me, like, okay, the cocktails should sound like what they are.

Speaker 2:

So hilariously, my first batch of Palomas, I called them Plantlomas, and no one knew what the heck that was. And so then I renamed it Paloma because that's really like what it is. It's just a nonalcoholic one. And just really realized that people wanted something that'd be associated with the cocktails they were already drinking. So it'd be like an easy one to one swap.

Speaker 2:

They wanted variety. You know? Like, people, like, like to go up. And at the time, I only had Paloma and Ginger Mule, and people would ask me for other flavors. And that other flavor would always be based on, like, the cocktail that they gravitated towards.

Speaker 2:

And I thought it was really fascinating because most people would come up in pairs or with their friends, and everyone would, like, have something different that they liked. And I can tell, you know, like, people like to have, like, different choices from, you know, what their friends are gonna gravitate towards. And so it's just really helpful to just see what people were looking for. And I also, as a Midwesterner who's been in products for a long time, like, I think sometimes products can be made in coastal cities, and then, like, the Midwest is an afterthought. So I really wanted something that, like, was gonna resonate with, like, my Midwestern people before we kind of went the opposite direction.

Speaker 1:

I think that your instinct is to think that this is for people that tend to not wanna drink or that people that maybe even don't drink. But was there something that kinda revealed itself in talking to people that was surprising or just gave you a better handle on what your intuition was around who's gonna be your customer.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. No. That's a good point. I think in the beginning when I told people I was starting a non elk brand, they were like, are you not gonna drink alcohol anymore? And they were, like, of freaked out.

Speaker 2:

And I was like because that was the association. But what I learned from those events were that were they were people very much like me, people who drank alcohol or who I like who I was. People who drank alcohol that just didn't wanna drink as much. And that actually, I think what's happened now since we have such great nonalcohol options out there is that Little Saint customers, we've done surveys, many surveys with our customers over time. And so we we know a lot about them.

Speaker 2:

And our customers, you know, over 90% of them drink alcohol. And our customers actually spend more on alcohol than people who don't drink Little Saints might because they're, like, they're those people that are saving their cocktails kind of like for the weekend. So as maybe pre pandemic, they have found themselves like having wine every night or like having a cocktail or two every night. Now it's much more like, okay. I'm gonna drink Little Saints on the weeknights.

Speaker 2:

If I go out to my favorite restaurant or bar, I'm gonna have, like, a couple beautiful cocktails, but I'm just gonna drink less overall. And they wanna make sure that, like, they have a really great alcohol alternative that's gonna be, again, like, zero sugar because they're, you know, like, concerned about their health and they wanna make good choices. And then that has, like, something functional in it because they're looking for, you know, kind of everything they put in their body to have some positive benefit. Then they'll be like, you know, I still, like, have my really good wine, like, at the steak place I like to or, like, you know, it's like people are I think what's happened at least with Littlestein customers is just, like, the the the middle and the bottom go out. It's alcohol.

Speaker 2:

It's gonna be, like, a really premium experience, and then the rest of it is gonna be, like, a non alcoholic Littlestein's.

Speaker 1:

I like that insight. And there's also something to that when people maybe reserve it for something special and then they also spend more, they actually tend to drink less by default just because of that, because they're enjoying it. They're treating themselves. They spent more, so they know the next one will be also more expensive. There's probably more to it, but they probably get a bigger hit of dopamine and just knowing that, like, oh, this is a special treat versus, like you said, an empty calorie beer that's sitting in the fridge just like it would any other night.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Totally. And I think that's also, you know, that what we were talking about before we officially got on is just sort of, like, that freedom and the way to think about things. Like, what the two things that we found from our surveys. So we did a survey after January 2025 and a survey after January 2026.

Speaker 2:

And there were so many difference in between the two years. And 2025, if you'll remember, that's the year that the surgeon general warning about no alco no amount of alcohol being good for you came out, and dry January was, like, a major thing. And I think it was because what was in the ether, people were really thinking abstinent. Abstinence. So most people that responded to that survey, like, had it was either all or nothing.

Speaker 2:

Like, most people were either like, I didn't do dry January or I did I think we had, like, twenty seven days or more on it. And then twenty twenty six was totally different. Like, it was as if non elk was already in people's repertoire. People were more comfortable, you know, taking nights off drinking here and there. And 2026, the theme was much more about moderation.

Speaker 2:

The the biggest percentage of people said, like, I drank less in January, but I didn't count the days.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. That's one of the things that we do here. It's dry as January. And and I love that approach because if that if that's too extreme for you, but you still wanna participate in something and still have something to celebrate that it doesn't matter if you drink one night less or one drink less per night, that's still a win. That's still being mindful with your habits, and it still can set up for something that maybe might seem extreme.

Speaker 1:

So I I love that, you know, people are are kind of settling in and and the NA is part of that story. And speaking of stories, is there one of of those conversations that you had and that you surveyed, is there one story where you were like, yes. I love this story about somebody using Little Saints?

Speaker 2:

I get the most excited by the the men who replaced whiskey on the weeknights. Like, we I love the stories from guys that are like, I always have my scotch or like, I always had sort of had my, like, after work drink, like, on ice. Like, I love the stories from, like, just, like, seeing the creativity with guys replacing their ritual. Maybe just because, like, I'm a woman and, like, like, I know the routine. But, like, so many guys will be, like, you know, I do it with my square ice cube or my round ice cube, and I, like, sit in my same seat and it feels like a real sort of replacement for that after dinner, like scotch or after work bourbon.

Speaker 2:

And those are my favorite. And I love those notes that are like, you know, I really replace my weeknight drink with Little Saints, and I feel so much better.

Speaker 1:

I mean, I gotta think that not only the taste and the ritual, but, you know, as the the sample that you sent me, just having something with, like, ice and that deep color or what you have there. You guys have awesome branding, of course.

Speaker 2:

Oh, thank you. And this is a MedCol bottle. So this bottle, like, has has a heavy glass on the bottom. Like, wanted to make sure that, you know, you just store it on your bar cart like you would anything else. You know, it's not precious.

Speaker 2:

You can just pour it on ice, and it'll taste good. We know that we know that people, like, of course, want things to be premium, but they also want them to be easy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Well, speaking of stories, you had one story where you hosted a dinner in Tribeca, and non alk was on the menu. You had low ABV, and you had microdose mushrooms as well. Tell me tell me

Speaker 2:

what happened. Oh my god. So our friends have this amazing new bathhouse that's gonna open in September, I think. It's called Schwet. And it's this, like, as if Wes Anderson and, like, So House Budapest came together, and they created this, like, sick lounge.

Speaker 2:

And so we did we just wanted to have a good time. So we did a mushroom themed microdose optional dinner party for about 25 people, and we didn't tell them. Some people might have known the brand Little Saints. Maybe they didn't. But we didn't tell them that it was gonna be like a non elk or, like, we'd never advertise that.

Speaker 2:

I don't like I shouldn't say this so loudly, but I'm going to as I start. And I don't really like like non elk events usually because then I feel like it, like, puts people, like, on the defensive before they even get there. And, like, I've thrown enough Little Saints events where we don't say anything about it and people have a great time, and they don't even, like, really realize that they've been having low ABV cocktails. So, anyways, we we took that same approach for this dinner party, and people showed up. There was this bar just as you would have any bar, and then the menu had half non elk.

Speaker 2:

So, like, it we had a little saints margarita where we just replaced tequila with Saint Ember. We had a low ABV espresso. So we had sorry. We had non alk espresso martini, non alk negroni, and non alk margarita. And then we had the other side of basically very similar cocktails but with low ABV.

Speaker 2:

And, like, when people had the option, more people actually it was kind of like half and half. Like, some people would be like, I want alcohol. And then so we would give them the low ABV, and then some people's eyes would light up, and they'd be like, oh, cool. I would love this non elk. But it was a nonissue.

Speaker 2:

It wasn't like, you know, people weren't like, oh my god. Like, I wasn't expecting this. Like, they liked having the option. And the vibe of that dinner party I mean, of course, we were microdosing mushrooms, but the vibe of the dinner party was really great because I felt like everyone had, like, the choice. Right?

Speaker 2:

And, like, people like to have a choice, so no one felt like they were missing out on anything. Like, it was interesting to watch people come up to the bar and maybe at first order a low ABV and then order the same thing and no ABV. So it was kind of like they were still, like, having three or four drinks at a dinner party like they would like to, just sort of like zebra striping with that low ABV and no ABV. And we've done that at dinner parties a bunch of times where we've had, like, low ABV and non alk. You know, I had a dinner party at in my backyard once, and we had eight bottles of Saint Ember were had and two bottles of wine.

Speaker 1:

So I love this dinner story because it actually is sort of how I envision the future of of dinner parties or get togethers a perfect world in my mind kinda unfolding. Because to me, I like the optionality and the openness. It's okay if you want if you wanna have something with alcohol in it, it's totally okay. But, also, the person that would wanna come to that is also more receptive to low ABV. It's not all about the alcohol.

Speaker 1:

Sure. I still enjoy alcohol, but it's not all about that. And, also, I'm totally not judging anybody that's wanna wants to go fully NA, doesn't wanna drink at all, and vice versa where the other person that's totally NA doesn't doesn't look at the other person with low ABV because they sort of understand each other even though they make different decisions.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Totally. And, you know, I would say it was I I should mention that probably only half of the people at that dinner opted into microdosing. So it wasn't, like, required. It was I love that, like, the future of imbibing just being a rainbow of fuels and functions.

Speaker 2:

So, like, I don't know because I definitely wasn't policing anyone, but I feel like it's highly possible that a bunch of people at that dinner came, drank non alk, and no one knew. Some people might have came, drank low ABV, and not had mushrooms. Some you know, like, there was, like, many combinations in there. One thing we haven't mentioned yet, but is key to this whole equation is glassware. Like, no one had a lame Collins glass in front of their dinner plate.

Speaker 2:

You know? Like, everyone had chic cocktail glasses with things that looked and smelled like cocktails. So, like, no one I don't think anyone there was judging anyways, but there's no way to tell what someone else is drinking. And I think that is also the key to a good party. You cannot be screaming like non elk.

Speaker 2:

You can't have a, you can't be, like, hamming basically kitty cocktails to half the group.

Speaker 1:

I wanna dig into something that you said there, which is I don't like non ALK only events. Why is that? I have my own opinions, but I wanna know your

Speaker 2:

Oh gosh. And I don't hear here I go, offending people, which I do not intend to do because I love our industry, and I love the people in it. I just have been to so many non occ events, and I think they I think that the universe of people that want to go to a fully non occ event is very, very limited. I'll take the Little Saints team for example. I love my team.

Speaker 2:

We hang out all the time. We have a great time. I am the only person that doesn't drink alcohol. Some people, like, drink a little bit. Some people like to still go out and drink a lot.

Speaker 2:

And, like, I want to be able to hang out with that whole range of people and, like, allow everyone to do whatever they need to do to make themselves feel comfortable. And so I think that is the problem with a non elk event, which is, like, we're not meeting everyone where they're at. You know? Like, I think I mean, we have we have we Little Saints throws a lot of events, and I have seen that the vibe is highest when you give people options. And when you give people options and when there are enough people choosing non elk, it to me, I've seen the the energy always is elevated.

Speaker 2:

Because if there are enough people choosing non elk, especially with functional mushrooms, that, like, raises the vibration of the whole event and then the people that are drinking alcohol, like, are also happy. And I've noticed that, like, where there's enough nonalc drinkers in the mix, like, it generally, you know, decreases the likelihood that part of that group is gonna get super wasted just because that's not where the energy of the event is. And I think that is the best mix because then everyone is happy. Like, I want people that don't know what non alg is to come to my parties and have a good time. You know?

Speaker 2:

And if they're comfortable, like, having three glasses of wine, like, great. You know? Maybe, like, then the next time, they'll wanna try some non elk. But overall, we're just trying to make people feel included and be able to, like, have events that were, you know, like because if you or I, we're gonna invite, like, our five favorite people to an event, like and personally, like, if I tried to invite my five favorite people to a non alc event or a mixed alcohol non elk event, like, they'd all go to the mixed event.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. It's the same thing. Like, I was just thinking about my wife. Like, she probably wouldn't wanna do that. Like, I might wanna do it one day.

Speaker 1:

I might not wanna do it on another day. Depends on where I'm at with things. I might wanna have a drink, and I might not wanna have a drink. But I think the optionality for me, it's just no one wants to feel discluded if they're not drinking. And I think it can go the now that people are being so mindful, we got almost gotta pay attention to that.

Speaker 1:

We also don't wanna disclude people from being part of the conversation if they do drink responsibly, of course, but just, like, I'm with you on that. I think it works for whoever it is. If you're gravitated towards it and that's your favorite place to be, then do that. And you and I are just talking about our own opinions here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Exactly. And I understand that many people, like, are uncomfortable around alcohol for, you know, their own reasons, and so I respect that too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Absolutely. Okay, Megan. As we get down to the end of the interview here, I actually have a question for you because this something that you solved for yourself. So let's say someone wants to drink less, but maybe they've been disappointed with whatever nonalcoholic drinks that they've had before.

Speaker 1:

How can somebody approach this that maybe was let down before?

Speaker 2:

I think it's easiest. You know, you go for, like, what you love the most, and you try to find that first. So for example, like, I really loved, like, light tequila. It's like a light sipping tequila is my favorite thing. And that's why I created Saint Ember that, like, our nonalcoholic sort of, like, light tequila alternatives.

Speaker 2:

I think there's so many options out there for people. I think the first thing is to make it easy on yourself and, like, try to see if there is, like, a one to one swap. And then, of course, because, like, having no sugar non alk is really important to me because I've seen, like, how much it, like, helps with the way I feel and, like, lowers inflammation. I think always looking for non alk drinks with the low sugar content is good because that's gonna be a more sustainable habit for you. You know, you can still choose to mix it sometimes with a mixer that has sugar.

Speaker 2:

Like, for example, I love to mix Saint Ember with zero sugar with, like, a Paloma sparkling sparkling water that has a little bit of sugar in it. But I think, like, looking for low sugar so you can, like, really keep that going and have a bunch of those rather than, like, having a really sugary non alk and then being like, well, fine. I'm just gonna have a beer. You know? Like, I so I think that's really important.

Speaker 2:

And then I think also, you know, choose the way that you wanna feel. Like, Little Saints has functional mushrooms, which give a very, you know, like, mild sense of clarity and ease.

Speaker 1:

Well, looking at the video of you sipping that, like, you should be on the cover of great Gatsby or something like that. Obviously, glassware is something that you think about too. And, honestly, like, I'm really I know what a wine glass looks like, and I know what a white and a red one looks like in a beer mug. But why don't you tell me also? Because I think that goes in very much into the ritual and about treating yourself and about making it a special occasion, whether it's just an end of the day drink or if it's something with friends.

Speaker 1:

How do you approach glassware or presentation?

Speaker 2:

Glassware is so important. That's what celebrates daytime from nighttime or, you know, like so we have our coffee mug, and then we have our water glass. We have our water bottle, and then nighttime should feel special. Like, we all want to feel a reward at the end of the day or sunset hour or whatever the time is that you wind down, you know, like the pool on the weekend. And so I think the choose whatever glassware signifies, like, this is me time.

Speaker 2:

This is adult time. This is relaxation time. And then pour your non alk in that special glass that's, like, really gonna create recreate that ritual that we love from alcohol, you know, and make it feel like you're not giving anything up. My worst nightmare is when I go to a bar or restaurant and I order a nonalcoholic cocktail and it's in, like, a giant 16 ounce Collins glass with, like, a bunch of juice. You're like, this is this is no.

Speaker 2:

This is not a cocktail. So glassware is key. Yes. Yeah. For those of you that can't see, I'm drinking in an art deco coupe glass right now.

Speaker 2:

It's 4PM.

Speaker 1:

That's the other thing I love about it is you it can be an anytime drink. Hey. I wanna have something right now and treat myself, and there's no reason why you can't do it. So, Megan, thanks so much for coming on today. If anybody wants to learn more about you, about Little Saints, where can people go?

Speaker 2:

Littlesaints.com is our website. And on social, we're at Little Saints Co CEO.

Speaker 1:

Thanks so much for coming on again.

Speaker 2:

Thanks, Mike.