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Hosted by Masi Willis and Shannon Scott, Lead Like You Mean It is a leadership podcast for those who want more than inspiration—they want impact. We’ll help you lead from the inside out, with tools that stick and some truth that stretches you.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:01.718)
Well, welcome back to Lead Like You Mean It. Hey Mace.
Masi Willis (00:06.05)
Hey girl, good to see ya.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:08.516)
Can you believe that we're where we are in the year? Like where is time going? I don't understand how we've gotten here so quickly.
Masi Willis (00:17.324)
It feels like it's flying over Niagara Falls. It's like we just tipped over the edge and it's like whoosh just going right past us for sure.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:20.822)
huh.
I 100 % agree with that. And you know, for a young podcast, which we are young, we have already hit a milestone, which is today we have our first guest on the podcast. Like it's just been me and you and as delightful as I'm sure it is for people to just listen to me and you, today we get to have an expert in this content on the podcast. How are you feeling about that?
Masi Willis (00:33.815)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (00:39.871)
Yay!
Masi Willis (00:52.832)
I'm really pumped. I can't think of a better first guest than who everyone gets to hear from today.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:57.623)
Okay.
Yes, I 100 % agree. So today we are so excited to welcome to the Lead Like You Mean It podcast, Jeremy Kubicek, who is the co-founder of Giant Worldwide, which incidentally is the leadership organization Masi and I are both certified through. Jeremy is a bestselling author, speaker, sought after communicator.
coach all over the US and internationally as well. And we have the great privilege of not only knowing of him, but knowing him. And both of us have many years of relationship with Jeremy and have both benefited so, so, so deeply from this amazing content. And I think the thing that you and I would say about this, and I want you to say whatever you want, but I'll just say,
Masi Willis (01:30.766)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (01:45.678)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:54.741)
I have done a lot of things, been a lot of places, led in a lot of contexts, but it wasn't until, and I've said this on previous podcasts, it wasn't until you used me as a guinea pig for this content and for training in it that I realized, this is the secret sauce. This is the thing I've kind of been looking for in terms of relational intelligence and just that missing.
Masi Willis (02:10.252)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (02:16.803)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (02:22.788)
peace in leadership. So I am 100 % wholeheartedly endorsing everything that we're talking about today. And I'm thrilled that we get to have Jeremy on the podcast. Is there anything that you want to say about him before we bring him in?
Masi Willis (02:23.693)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (02:38.166)
Well, gosh, the floor is mine so I can take it right here, right? No, I'll say, echo everything you say. I'll never forget during the pandemic 2020, I was sitting alone in Franklin, Tennessee and this email came through and when I was reading, it was like I felt like my life was understood.
I felt like the language was so encouraging. And long story short, realized after a few conversations with the headquarters team that Jeremy Kubitschek was the one that was behind it. Jeremy and I had gone back many years. I was looking for a job at some point in time. These very influential men here in Atlanta were like, you have to talk to Jeremy Kubitschek, go talk to him. And so he and I met and looked at maybe going to work with the organization he was running at that point in time.
And so I've had the pleasure of being in his shadow and watching what he's developed. And now it is my honor to be able to take his brilliance, what he's been given, what God's used to glorify the entire world through this, that it is the thing that has transformed me the most. I can't give what I don't possess. And I can say when Jeremy took the content and actually turned it on me and was like, Macy, want you to dive into your
connect her and really lead from that perspective did I actually see it transform my own life so I'm excited to have Jeremy here. Welcome Jeremy.
Everything Made Beautiful (04:08.278)
Yes. Okay, so now that we've talked about him, let's talk to him. So Jeremie, welcome to the Lead Like You Mean It podcast. Thank you for being our very first guest.
Masi Willis (04:11.886)
Thanks
Masi Willis (04:17.996)
Yes.
Jeremie (04:19.834)
You know, I got to hear all that, right? I heard all of it. Thank you. Wow. You made me blush. Thank you. And what it's called sunburn. was, was last night in the pool, but I do want to say to be your very first guest. That means, I mean, like I beat a lot of people. It just, I don't know. Part of me is it's humility. And then part of me is like, yes, I beat those other people. Thank you.
Masi Willis (04:23.118)
I know, you're looking all red over there.
Everything Made Beautiful (04:40.654)
True.
Hehehehe. Hehehehe. Hehehehe.
Masi Willis (04:45.78)
Yes! And we know all those other people. We will not name them. Yeah, it's great. It's great. Really.
Jeremie (04:50.748)
I will. Later.
Everything Made Beautiful (04:56.438)
So Jeremy, just tell us holistically. Just tell us about Giant Worldwide and frankly anything you want to tell us leading up to that just to give people some context before we dive into some specific stuff.
Jeremie (05:08.518)
All right, so if you've looked at our brand, we have a little I in it. It's a big G, a little I, and that little I stands for humility. It all started with like, how do we do big things in a humble way? Because I've been leading these big brands, know, like John Maxwell and Catalyst and LeaderCast and all these big things. And we just wanted to do it differently. Like, what would it look like if we could create a business where people could truly know themselves, where there would be a system.
but it would be done with like, I don't know, secure, confident, humility. And humility is a big part of this thing. And so that's really what we've done. We've kind of built differently than most companies. kind of built through relationship and through years and years and years of just doing it. And then, you know, then we kind of show up and people are like, who are you guys? And where'd you come from? And like, well, 10 years of just doing the hard work.
Masi Willis (05:59.203)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremie (06:05.101)
of building relationships and transforming people.
Masi Willis (06:09.014)
So good. It's so good. It's interesting that you think about the journey you had and there's so much you've done in your life, built, created. Where did the actual idea, obviously Giant was the organization, but the five voices, because we'll be talking about each voice in the coming weeks. Where did that idea actually come from and what problem were you solving?
Jeremie (06:31.683)
Yeah, so Steve Cockrum and I, we started this format, this version of Giant in 2013. And as we were forming it, it was like we both worked through some tough experiences and we were trying to work together. So we started taking these executives through this one year program. We kind of just made it up. It was called ExecCore.
And we just started going through this one year journey with them. And as we're doing it, we really wanted to anchor personality wiring and know yourself to lead yourself because it was so transformative. And we'd all gone through everything. Burtman, disc, right path, blah, blah, blah, blah. Lots of lots of good psychometrics. Myers-Briggs, know, the big five. And and Steve was really, he was really
good at personality and that understanding. I had been working on relational intelligence tools. And so we kind of combined them together, but it really was Steve on an airplane with pressure of a deadline because we're like, Hey, we've got to have our like, we want to have our own tool, our own system. need to have it finished. So literally on the airplane from London to Atlanta, it all kind of came together. And then we, the way we always worked, we try it out with people.
And so Steve Cockrum's brainchild were to take the complexities of all of these other psychometrics and really put them together in something that was really tangible. I was pushing really hard for, I was so tired of the cheesiness of like, are you an eagle? Are you an otter? Are you a red? Are you a this? And I was like, I want it to be something more holistic. And so what we did is we built a, not only a psychometric, but we built a language and a system.
Everything Made Beautiful (08:09.443)
Yeah.
Jeremie (08:20.891)
So it's to know yourself, know others, but then have language that you can use inside families or teams that doesn't go away in two months or three months. And it's not too complicated where you're like, I'm a ESPN. And you're like, no, there is not an ESPN. You know what I mean? And so all of the, I'm a ID, all that stuff, it's really good.
Everything Made Beautiful (08:38.516)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (08:40.917)
Hahaha
Everything Made Beautiful (08:43.939)
Yes.
Jeremie (08:48.377)
It's just too complex and it doesn't stick long-term. And that's the problem.
Masi Willis (08:54.296)
Yeah. You know, when you think about the words you guys chose, this is just, I'm wondering, because I'm not the wordsmith necessarily. Shannon definitely is in our friendship. Like, how long did it take to come up with the distinct five words?
Everything Made Beautiful (08:54.67)
Yeah.
Jeremie (09:05.541)
Yeah.
Jeremie (09:09.179)
Yeah. So we were living in, uh, in London, we were living in this place called heads or Priory. And we, we had this team, we had our team, Hunter and Justin and Mike, and they were all over it. And we were literally wrangling through the word connector. And you know, connector was pretty easy for like, okay, that, that does correlate to 11 % of the population. And it's really fascinating because most people don't understand, um, demographic.
Masi Willis (09:19.543)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremie (09:37.062)
personality demographics and it's massive. 73 % of the population are present oriented and 27 % are future oriented. So you had to have a future voice. We got to a couple of words that were really tricky. So the five words for those listening that you may not know, and I know you're going to go through and do the whole series, but you've got the nurturer, you've got a creative, you've got a guardian, you've got a connector and a pioneer. And the words themselves, they're hard because the word creative, for instance, most people think website.
Masi Willis (09:40.248)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (09:53.87)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremie (10:07.003)
designer, graphic designer or artist. But we were, we went to the purest, we went all the way back to the original term of what a creative is. And it's basically the ability to see the future and the, so, and the create from what they see. So it was the creative, nurturer, nurturer works really well for 43 % of the population. The problem is that a lot of men don't like to be called nurturers.
Everything Made Beautiful (10:07.426)
Yeah, graphic designer, yeah.
Masi Willis (10:07.533)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (10:11.086)
Painter.
Masi Willis (10:35.694)
Right?
Jeremie (10:35.929)
However, when they do, they become amazing at it. So we were like, so there's some words we were fighting over like, and then others were like, let's just roll with it or pioneer. Most men think they're a pioneer when they're really playing it on TV. And I was one of them. so those are just how, so we wrangled with words and there was no perfect word. Guardian worked well, connector really worked well. The others had a little nuance that were like,
Masi Willis (10:57.902)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (11:06.786)
Yeah, we have said in previous, because we just hit them quickly and did say what the five voices were. But one of the things that we said was, don't assume you know what the word means. whereas I am a nurturer and I feel great about it, there are a few men that I have coached that do kind of the head tilt when they get the test result. Like, wait a second. And so it does.
Jeremie (11:17.691)
That's it.
Jeremie (11:26.171)
I can't tell my other buddies that.
Masi Willis (11:31.982)
I'm
Everything Made Beautiful (11:32.084)
Right, exactly. I don't want to come to the next training and reveal my results. one of the kind of core tenets and one of the assumptions that we make in Five Voices is that everyone speaks, but not everyone is heard. And what do you see and what have you experienced that breaks down in communication inside teams?
Jeremie (11:35.984)
Yeah.
Jeremie (11:57.179)
Yeah, there's like the, there's a decibel level in the voices. And so the loudest two voices, the Pioneer is the loudest, Connector is the second loudest. Isn't that right, Macy? There's a Connector, I'm a Connector. And so how many meetings have we been in, in where the, where the Pioneers and Connectors, they steal all the oxygen. They just take all of the, the everything in the meeting. It's like, Hey guys, all right, you ready to meet today? Best idea wins.
Masi Willis (12:09.194)
Absolutely. Yeah.
Masi Willis (12:19.352)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremie (12:26.786)
I'll go first. And then, then we share. And I'm, I, I, I'm embarrassed to look back at how much I dominated meeting. So what that means is that there are other voices there, but you don't get their best opinion because the nurturers are the quietest creatives are the second quiet and then guardians. Those three usually get like contained in one end of the boardroom and where the pioneers and connectors spar or go back and forth and talk.
Everything Made Beautiful (12:28.578)
Yeah.
Jeremie (12:56.546)
So, or in a family, the same way, a nurturer and the nurturer, have a natural inhibition. So they're not, they're not yearning to talk and they don't really want to, especially in those settings. But what we're saying is when you don't allow them to speak, you're not hearing all the best ideas and they're not. also the 43 % of the population, if they're not talking, they're the majority or they can sway people through, through
Masi Willis (13:16.962)
Yeah.
Jeremie (13:24.474)
you know other means and body language and so forth and so it's really really important that you hear what they have to say.
Masi Willis (13:32.002)
good, really good. You know that when you think about this and I'm reflecting even on work that I've been doing this week in Tulsa is that idea that identifying the voice really can impact performance. Why does it really matter? When you look at when you guys were creating this and we're thinking about it, what would you say understanding the voices, why does it actually tie to performance?
Jeremie (14:00.0)
So there is a natural insecurity in people. And when people are insecure, they act different. They do things that are different. And so the joy of the five voices is it basically is all around identity. Once you know your identity and who you really were made like, my goodness, am truly like, I thought I was a pioneer connector and I wrote the book.
Masi Willis (14:01.582)
Thank
Masi Willis (14:21.966)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremie (14:27.31)
So Steve, it came up with the concept. I wrote the book and I'm like, I'm a pioneer connector for sure. And as I'm writing, like, I'm not, I'm a connector creative pioneer playing a pioneer creator or a pioneer connector. So because of that, it's like, I became secure in my voice. And then when I'm secure in my voice, then you, the other person gets the best of me, not the guy that I'm trying to be. And so it settles into this security.
Everything Made Beautiful (14:34.628)
Mm.
Masi Willis (14:45.261)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (14:52.814)
So.
Jeremie (14:56.02)
But then it allows people to call up and then they don't realize that they have these superpowers that are in them, but they have never experienced before because they haven't felt secure in their own voice. So their secure identity leads to the best of superpowers, which then leads people to into their calling or their purpose. So they can step confidently into what they're designed to do versus what they feel like they should do. So that's ultimately what we're trying to do. We're trying to call people up.
Masi Willis (15:12.014)
Mm.
Masi Willis (15:19.939)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremie (15:25.643)
into their identity to who they really are.
Masi Willis (15:29.581)
really good.
Everything Made Beautiful (15:29.684)
So good. You know, when I am coaching specifically teams here in Nashville, one of the things that I have to do is address Enneagram specifically because Enneagram has taken Nashville by storm. Would you just give a little bit of language for people who are going, well, how is this different from
Jeremie (15:43.951)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (15:51.139)
Lincey Oni's, know, six types of working genius or Enneagram or disc or any of those things that are all great and do assess something. Would you just give a comparison and an explanation for people?
Jeremie (15:53.134)
Working genius, yeah.
Jeremie (16:00.865)
Absolutely.
So I'm fan of all of them. mean, any tool can be used for good. mean, Enneagram is amazing, but it doesn't, it's not about your personality. It's really about your motivation. It's like why you do what you do. It's a different twist on your personality. So it's important to understand. the difficult, and working genius is great, but it's really more about work type or style. And it's like a work style. So it doesn't get to the core root.
Masi Willis (16:06.51)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (16:27.704)
Yeah, yeah.
Jeremie (16:32.012)
of maybe who you were wired to be. so what we do is we go to nature and then to nurture. So who were you and then how do you show up? What have you adapted to become? But what we're trying to do is give a language for organizations that far exceeds a psychometric. So the only issue I have with Enneagram, I love Enneagram, the program. The issue I have with it is if you don't know it, it's not very friendly.
So you're like, what are you, I'm a seven with wing eight. What are you, she's a four for sure. And you're like, I don't know. I don't know how to, I don't know how to engage. So I feel judged or I feel really, and so in our, in the five voices, we're like, you're all of them. You're all five. You have a foundational one. And then you have a nemesis one. You know, this one is the hardest voice to realize, but because of Nurture, you can adapt to any of them. So it gives so much more flexibility.
Everything Made Beautiful (17:07.352)
That tells me nothing, yeah.
Jeremie (17:29.198)
But not only that, it's easier on culture because if you're not in the cool club that went through that Enneagram that one time, then you feel like you're an outsider if you're brand new. so versus the voices, it lasts for years. But we worked with Google for six years now, I think, and they're using it internally of like, so to know I'm a connector or a nurturer, or it just, it flows much easier than I'm a
Masi Willis (17:33.42)
Yeah.
Jeremie (17:58.668)
or with a wing, whatever. So, that's my experience anyway.
Masi Willis (18:00.714)
Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I love the thought that you're, what you're saying, you're all five voices. That was, many times these assessments weaponize people and that's one of the things that I love being able to tell the clients that I work with is, hey, you will know your voice. We will help you get to that. You're gonna know yourself.
Everything Made Beautiful (18:00.814)
Yeah, it's good.
Masi Willis (18:25.164)
the best. An assessment isn't going to tell you that. We're going to walk through the assessment and make sure that exactly what you said that there that we haven't been nurturing some. I lived as a nurture thinking I was a nurture. Holy cow. I am so not a nurture. It's my blind spot. And as soon as I realized it like you said I felt like I put on a custom suit. It was like my gosh it this fits me. This is so why I've been and done the things I've done in my life good and bad. Yeah.
What is there any story that you know the framework of five voices like radically shifted a culture? Like what's one of the the best or the greatest stories you've heard?
Jeremie (18:52.825)
Totally.
Jeremie (19:00.025)
wow, there's a ton like the beauty for me is I get emails like every day of like transformation. I just got one this morning from a guy who's like, run a marketing company, we were using it, we use it on ourselves. And then we decided to use it for our sales process for all of our customers. And because we started serving the customer based on who they really are, it changed
Masi Willis (19:24.258)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremie (19:29.913)
our engagement with them and our engagement scores went up. And we just want to thank you that we knew ourselves well enough that we knew our team, but then we started knowing our customers and serving them. That was it. That was this morning. One that though, that was really cool was from a basketball team, a division one women's basketball team is really neat. So there was this point guard and I don't remember her name, but her, she was a nurturer.
Masi Willis (19:32.59)
Hmm?
Jeremie (19:58.25)
And their shooting guard was a pioneer. And, but the nurture was so good, but to get rattled at the end of games, because the pressure that came on her at the end of the game. And so what would happen is they would draw up a play and then like, let's just say her name was Rachel. Okay, Rachel, you got this. You need to make sure. And then when that would happen, she would fizzle out and have a turnover or something would happen at the of the game.
Once she figured out the coach was, she's amazing. She uses the five voices religiously. Once she knew that she's a nurturer, she's like, my gosh, I got to change the pressure point to the shooting guard. So, and I'm by the way, I think I flipped it. The shooting guard was the nurturer. That's what it was. The point guard was the pioneer. And so the, but the shooting guard was amazing. Could drill it and practice and end games except under that extreme pressure.
So she told the point guard, she goes, okay, during a play, okay, Becky, I need to make sure that you, can you pass it to Rachel? And she's like, can I pass it Rachel? Like, I do it in my sleep. She put all the pressure on the point guard to pass it to the shooting guard. She didn't put the pressure on the shooting guard on the play. So it was just simple, but it was like the pioneers can handle pressure, they can eat it for breakfast.
Everything Made Beautiful (20:54.883)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (21:17.358)
Mmm, it's good.
Everything Made Beautiful (21:17.795)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (21:24.515)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremie (21:24.791)
the nurturers, it just, she felt like she was going to let the team down. So by taking the pressure off, well, her, not her numbers just started going skyrocketing. And literally she said that one little shift, it changed the entire dynamic and they started winning on a consistent level because it wasn't about the shooting guard. was about the point guards passing it. Anyway.
Masi Willis (21:28.398)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (21:45.218)
Yeah, so good. It's interesting, of my clients, they did the same thing with their sales team after the management leadership team had gone through a couple of years. The sales manager was like, I've got this problem, we're not...
growing client base where we're taking care of our clients and selling to them, but I just can't get my salespeople to think outside the territory we're in. So we ended up assessing all eight of his sales folks and every one of them was a present voice thinker and present voice and the way they manage their customers. And I said, you know what, let's go look at the CSRs.
They were all future connectors. Actually, I was like pair them up, get them on the road and let those CSRs kind of open up the door and then let your sales folks come in and be their intelligent.
their bring their intelligence to the party. So it was even interesting for us to be able to see the dynamics of the team and where their performance wasn't hitting and how could they equip the salespeople differently or start hiring some of those future voices looks into it. So yeah, great stories.
Jeremie (22:42.988)
Right.
Jeremie (23:00.182)
Absolutely.
Everything Made Beautiful (23:01.47)
So good. actually, I also love the stories of going in with teams, doing five voices around the boardroom table and then coming back the next month and hearing people talk about how much it's actually transformed their marriage and they weren't even expecting that part or how they are now able to connect with a child that they were just missing each other in communication just because of a little bit more information that they had on knowing themselves and knowing other people.
Jeremie (23:17.613)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremie (23:31.257)
If I can tell a story on that real quick because it's a personal story. the beauty in those listening, it's not just knowing your voice. We actually have a bevy of tools. When you use the tools with the voice, it changes it. So in my family, when my kids were younger, about, I don't know, 14 down to 10, we started understanding the voices of our kids. and Macy knows my kids, she and I know you met them, but
I'm proud of my kids. They're amazing humans and they're amazing adults. I'll tell you, I think the five voices was the biggest thing in our life because what happened is we started to understand, we started to understand our kids and their voice. And so we, in fact, have a book coming out, which I know we'll talk about, but the voice driven leader is our next book coming out in October. The whole idea is you lead people based on their voice, not on your voice. So
Everything Made Beautiful (24:11.492)
Hmm.
Jeremie (24:30.698)
My wife didn't realize that she was, she's a guardian and a guardian under stress can interrogate. That's their, that's their stress behavior. So she didn't realize that she was pushing our oldest daughter away until she knew her oldest daughter is a creative. So Addison is a Bohemian, just future, free thinker, free spirit, super fun, super creative.
Everything Made Beautiful (24:53.73)
You
Masi Willis (24:55.438)
free spirit.
Jeremie (24:59.704)
Kelly's really buttoned up, right? So then she would, on the weekends, she'd ask the kids like, hey, so what are you guys doing? Where are you going this weekend? What are you doing? And like, this is in high school, know, or like in early high school. Well, we're going over to our friends, blah, blah. Well, then Kelly would go, well, what time are you leaving? Who's going to be there? Any chaperones, any parents? What kids are actually coming? Are you spending the night? What are you guys gonna actually do? Like she's six, seven questions in and our kids start backing up.
And then Kelly's like, I think our kids are hiding from us. And I'm like, I think they're just scared of you. And I'm like, and to be honest, I am too sometimes, you know, like, because the interrogation, but what happened, I was like, Kelly, you only get two questions, two or three, max, ask all the other questions from the other mom. Well, I was doing the same thing with Will. He's a guardian. I'm a connector. We're nemesis voices. My son.
Everything Made Beautiful (25:34.083)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (25:36.789)
Haha!
Everything Made Beautiful (25:36.904)
Ha ha ha ha.
Jeremie (25:58.081)
So I was like trying to break him to make him like, you need to like submit and he's just very logical. And I had to realize like, I'm too provisional. I talk out loud too much for him. He needs more concrete. He needs more structure and those kinds of things. so long story short, we just adapted to our kids and we started speaking their language. So here's what the voices are. The voices are a language. When you learn the language,
Everything Made Beautiful (26:04.42)
you
Masi Willis (26:13.293)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremie (26:27.434)
of other people and their voice. It's like when I lived in Russia, you know, I started immediately learning Russian before I left and I got there, I took Russian and I became one of the top two of us learned Russian compared to anyone else in our group. So it's like, when I speak Russian, now the Russians will go, you heard like, you heard my language.
Masi Willis (26:54.275)
Right.
Jeremie (26:56.15)
So it like, if I speak nurture, all of sudden they're like, and if I speak guardian, which giving them, then they're going to appreciate it so much more. So you just need to learn the five languages. That's it. And yeah, you're like, well, that's a lot to learn the five languages, but the they're all in English, but, it really is. It's impact.
Masi Willis (27:05.432)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (27:05.7)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (27:19.416)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (27:19.618)
Yeah, it's transformational and you can't stop the transformation. Like it's automatically transformational when we're speaking a language that someone else understands. I think, you know, when you think about teams, organizational leaders, know, strategy, strategy, strategy, great leaders have great strategy. Why would you say that actually a common language is going to be more powerful for the health of the team?
than a great strategy.
Jeremie (27:51.298)
Well, okay, so I'm a believer in when you break down business, it's strategy, capital people. I mean, just high level, you have to have a business model, you have to fund it, and you have to have the people to do it. What happens though, is that it's more cerebral to create a business model with a few people in a room. It's thinker, thinker bill. It's not feelings. are things, to have a funding or a capital structure. That's thinking.
People are where it gets messy because people are messy and people are hard because they oftentimes won't do what you just, it's on the paper, it's on the plan, just follow the plan. Well, but this is how, so that's the difficulty of it. And so you need all of them, but the idea is like, how do you turn people into an asset, not a liability? And a lot of people, especially like private equity and they're treating people like liabilities, like, hey,
Masi Willis (28:40.91)
Mm.
Jeremie (28:45.975)
Let's just get them. Okay. Well, let's get another batch new and it's a turnover factory. So for, for us, what we realize is like, uh, the people, if people are an asset, then you have to give them a system. by creating language, language is either objective or subjective. So if I say, um, Hey Macy, like, like don't, don't screw it up. Okay. Like, let's go. Come on. Like, I need you to do better. Are we cool?
Masi Willis (29:15.15)
Yeah, right, whatever. Uh-huh. Yeah, thanks.
Jeremie (29:15.241)
Yeah, good talk. Right? Good talk. Yeah. And you're like, Yeah, so but if I'm objective language, and I'm like, Hey, Macy, you know, I'm for you, right? I'm going to bring support and challenge here. Now support and challenges language we've introduced, it's one of our tools. So I'm getting celebration for whatever reason, however that happened. Anyway, but support and go now Macy, you know, for you, right, but I'm going to bring a little challenge here, I'm going to call you up. Not calling you out. I'm calling you up.
Everything Made Beautiful (29:18.456)
Mm-hmm
Everything Made Beautiful (29:34.884)
You
Jeremie (29:45.27)
I love to see your connector turn on a little bit more and go after dot dot dot. You've got it within you. We really need it on the team. Now I'm using challenge, but I'm using objective language that doesn't feel as judgment. It feels like, it feels like you're for me, but I'm leading you. So by having common language, then the, and we use common language through visual tools. Those that were listening.
Masi Willis (29:59.148)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (30:02.744)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeremie (30:12.341)
because we found that most adults are cynical know-it-alls and they don't read much anymore. So we had to create visual tools because everything's visual. And then when you learn it, you'll pass it on. You'll teach someone else. And when you teach, you learn. So there's a science behind what we're doing, but it's a system of people development. And it's using visual language, visual tools and common objective language that's consistent. But you got to commit to that or you'll
default back to accidental subjectivity.
Masi Willis (30:45.666)
Yeah, it's interesting that you said that because I just had a conversation this week where I've been working with an organization for a couple years and then some things went wrong. They took a pause and a year later just sat and begging to come back because realized that they were working so hard towards this common language and they got their mind focused on business strategy, kind of stopped thinking about the people and are begging to come back. So when you think about
Everything Made Beautiful (30:46.2)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (31:15.51)
that and we think about the leaders we talk to what's the greatest mistake that leaders sometimes make introducing this to teams or what are the pushbacks that you hear and yet know
Jeremie (31:27.863)
Well, I mean, a lot of it sometimes it's like, yeah, that's soft, soft skills. Wait, I don't get that as much anymore. It used to be, but here's what I know is like, I'm I'm going to get a little feisty here for a minute. Okay. Uh, the, the coming storm of AI to jobs and to roles, it's going to wreck and dramatically change.
Masi Willis (31:41.432)
Do it, please.
Jeremie (31:55.648)
You're, you're going to have to have people who have a relational intelligence above artificial intelligence and the human capital, the human part is going to be really, really important in the future. and so you've got to train people differently and it has to be trained on hyper personalization. You, you have to know people because with AI, the competitive advantage is going to go up in a whole nother level of competition. So.
Training people now is a competitive advantage. Training them to know and understand who they're on the other side of and speak their language, that's competitive advantage. If you think that's soft, then you're not very smart as a business person. Imagine if you had a team of people and we're doing this, we're rolling out five voices for sales, all the people you're training. Imagine when you train people to read people's minds.
Masi Willis (32:40.556)
Right.
Everything Made Beautiful (32:41.337)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (32:54.507)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremie (32:54.803)
And to understand the dynamic, it positions your company at a higher level than the person who's doing the same thing and expecting different results. That's insanity. So it literally is a skillset of people development. So how do you develop people? That's why we call it the voice driven leader is actually understanding the voice of the other person more than just leading from their own voice. So.
Everything Made Beautiful (33:05.284)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (33:21.443)
Yeah.
Jeremie (33:23.937)
There's my feistiness.
Masi Willis (33:24.312)
So good. You guys say this a lot. It's not the golden rule. It's the platinum rule. And I have adopted that to everything that I speak in. And most often, even the clients I have now, breakdown happens when they accidentally slip back into, well, they just know I'm a guardian. They just know that's the way I'm like, no, no, that was an archer. You showed up as a guardian. I need you to show up as an archer. Do not walk into that room and ask 10 questions because on the other
Jeremie (33:50.411)
Hmm
Jeremie (33:53.975)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (33:54.228)
side of you, you feel like you're interrogating when you're just trying to get the facts, but nonetheless you need to show up and ask how was your weekend? Got a few things about this program or this accounting process we did. Can we talk through how we can adjust it? You're then inviting that nurture in and that one guy was like, my gosh, how did I, how do I not know that? I've been doing this for three years. So that's also the truth of it is it's a continuous work. It's never going, we're never going to conquer.
everything that we need to. It's just an infinity loop.
Jeremie (34:28.306)
Absolutely. And what we've made it easy. So we've created the five voices AI where you can literally type in like Macy and I'll go, Hey, I'm trying to communicate with Macy. I've got a meeting with Macy. How would I? So we've given a cheat sheets to go. All you have to do is leverage AI. So we've taken the best of AI. We've built our own GPT. So it's consumed with voices. And now all of a sudden you can actually have a game plan before you go in.
So if you're listening to this, go, I'm meeting with my son. He's a guardian. How should I correct him? And then you can use AI to do that. And that's another tool. But once you get really, really good at this, you'll start seeing people in movies. Oh, there's the pioneer. There's the, she's the creative. You'll start seeing it in every interaction that you come across. And then you get really good. And you know, it's like the person who knows five languages probably is going to win.
Everything Made Beautiful (35:04.355)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (35:08.856)
Is it?
Everything Made Beautiful (35:15.961)
Yeah.
Jeremie (35:27.444)
So it's like the more languages you know, then then you switch and do what you just said that platinum rule do unto others as they would want done. So then by doing that, guess who wins. people all the time will say stuff to me of like, man, you're the connector, you know everyone. my gosh. And it's like, I'm not that guy. I'm not the guy who has the database. Who's just trying to like smooths all the time.
What I'm doing is when I meet with people, I try to quickly understand their voice and speak their language. So my influence goes up. And then the other thing I'm doing while I'm doing that, I'm looking for where's the healing, what needs to get taken out, what needs to get called up in them. And then I'll do it appropriately. And they remember me because I was significant and memorable. And all I've done is I've used the voices to help me understand them better. So I know how to help them more effectively.
Everything Made Beautiful (36:23.812)
It's so good. You mentioned the voice driven leader. Tell us about the book. Tell us who it's for. I think sometimes people think, well, that doesn't apply to me. So tell us exactly who it's for, who should read it, and what will they get when they do?
Jeremie (36:34.674)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, so there's a whole bunch of books back here that we have written. This one is called The Voice Chairman Leader. And I'll tell you honestly, I'm so excited about it. I loved writing this book. It was this is the most nerd book for leadership. This is a book that will old school dog tag. People are going to be dog tagging because what we did is we took the voices and we're like, hey, these are the languages.
Then we created the development square. We took the development square and we built a system to go, if you are a pioneer leader and you have a nurturer, how do you onboard a nurturer is going to look different than onboarding another pioneer or, or, so there's a, they're onboarding the foundation stage. How do you bring them on and what's it look like differently? Then how do you actually start immerse, immerse, immersion?
How do you do immersion with them and get them immersed in their job and start understanding their role without losing them in the pit of despair where they check out or you let them go. And then how do you get them to get engaged in their role? And then how do you help them multiply? So there's like four squares. There's like a system. So we took the development square and we put it in hyper personalized it per voice. If you are this and they are this, here you go.
Masi Willis (37:42.755)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremie (38:02.121)
So it's so rich with practical wisdom. It's the most application we've ever written. And that's what I'm saying. If you're a team leader that truly, truly wants to develop people, then that's who this book is for. If you're a fly by night who's just talking big, but doesn't know, doesn't really want to do it and is accidental, you're going to, you might still buy it because you think it sounds cool and have it on your desk. But what
Masi Willis (38:05.709)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremie (38:30.431)
People who are really truly leaders are gonna dog ear and highlight this book, Old School, because it's so potent. I'll tell you, it goes into the development crisis of why we have a development crisis. We go through the actual development process of the development square. And then it's like, here's the development system that you employ. So it's an actual system that you can put. So if you're an HR leader, it's a for sure. SHRM is gonna eat this up.
Masi Willis (38:34.114)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (38:57.484)
Yeah.
Jeremie (38:59.925)
people in the sherm world because it's just so meaty. And it's like, what I love about it is there's just all, you know, I've been in the publishing world for 25 years and just in this world of leadership and all this stuff for a long time, a lot of fly by nights, a lot of shticks that are out there. This is just pure meat and I'm proud of it.
Masi Willis (39:19.084)
Yep.
One of the things you said that I think is so crucial that I love is that there's a layering, right? So the voice-driven leader for those listening, we've been talking about these tools all my life. I have worked in multiple different places, very nonlinear life, but everyone always said the same thing to me. Macy, you talk too much, you dominate the conversations. Macy, you get really, really friendly in moments, but then when you have to go back and work that claim, it's like a real...
Relationally you disconnected from that moment, but nobody ever told me how to be different
Everyone told me who and what I looked like. And that's what listening to you say this about what we're looking forward to in this book matched with development is if there's anything I could say of what five voices and the tools that giant has created that we're utilizing is that we're equipping you. We get in there, we help you do this surgery and then we help heal all the way through and give you all of the practical tools of that.
how. So if you're a leader and you're like, yeah just go do this thing, I don't even know what to do, you can have the confidence that we're going to give you the what. It's really good.
Jeremie (40:34.197)
And I think that's a good point. It's like, you have to learn the language. So you have to know the voices. And when you do that, here's what's going to happen to you. You are going to experience a personal like, aha, you're going to see the broccoli in your teeth, and it's going to be really painful and really liberating. And once you do that journey, you're like, my gosh, that's what it's been like to be on the other side of me. I'm so sorry. Right. And I'm so excited because I'm
Masi Willis (41:01.026)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremie (41:03.857)
Now I know my tendencies, I know my patterns, I know, and I'm going to trade up to something better. Then you're going to start knowing other people and you're going to start training them on your team or family. And then those dynamics are going to change. I had a big epiphany with a leader yesterday with his wife using the peace index. I went through and helped him see how different they were. And then he realized she had never done the voices and he said she needs to know the voices. I'm like, yes.
You need because you need the common language so that they don't feel judged. What you always you want you don't know. No, no, no, no. It's really just tendencies based on on personality. Well, so once that happens, now you can start employing a plan. How do I develop people? Where do I get like what you're what you guys are saying is that's what we do. We give the tools of the how to what do you actually do to get your people from here to here?
Everything Made Beautiful (41:36.792)
Yeah.
Masi Willis (41:42.338)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremie (42:00.773)
And it can be done, but you have to do the work and you have to want to do it.
Masi Willis (42:04.96)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm going to ask a strange question, like because we all know the voices, let's be vulnerable and share with the listeners. Like when you learned your true voice, what was the biggest aha that transformed you personally?
Jeremie (42:24.265)
Great. Shannon, no pressure. It'll nurture.
Everything Made Beautiful (42:26.084)
I was like I should go first because I'm the nurturer
Masi Willis (42:27.333)
shi-
Everything Made Beautiful (42:31.914)
say for me I thought I was a nurturer I tested as a nurturer like there I didn't have a lot of maybe I'm not but I will say that it did not cement for me until I learned what my triggers are and how I respond in stress and as soon as I saw it I realized my word that is me and I
you know, I know my Enneagram number and I didn't, I wasn't confused about my Enneagram. I knew what that was. Like I tend to test accurately what I am or how I show up. I had never seen the language for not only what I do when I'm triggered, but why I get triggered in the first place. My experience in Teams has been a little bit polarizing in that
people love me until they don't. And it's like, it's like, we want you. Wait, you're saying that thing that we don't like, now we don't want you anymore. Like that sort of stuff. And I couldn't really pinpoint it. mean, Jeremy, I don't know if I've said this to you personally, but I've said it about this content for two or three years now. If I had had this 20 years ago or 10 years ago, I can look back and see
Masi Willis (43:33.134)
Nyeh heh heh heh!
Jeremie (43:52.649)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (43:59.237)
where things went sideways and I am convinced if we had had a common language those things would not have happened. So, vulnerably for me it's helped me see what I do, why I do it, and it's given me such a gift to be able to when I feel that thing rise up in me to go pause why are you feeling this right now and it and it lets me stop before a damaging response.
Jeremie (44:05.94)
Mm-mm.
Everything Made Beautiful (44:28.42)
It has also given me immense compassion for people who've had to leave me and for times when a leader and I have missed each other or for people I've led when we've missed each other because we did not have a common language to understand one another. So I've had a lot of broccoli in my teeth over the years and I'm really grateful for the opportunity to see it. So that, vulnerably for me, has been probably the most transformative part.
Masi Willis (44:28.462)
Mm.
Jeremie (44:48.574)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremie (44:58.046)
Good. Macy?
Masi Willis (45:00.202)
I think for me it is really understanding why have there been such huge moments of disconnect with past jobs and bosses. Really realizing my secret sauce as a connector creative pioneer. I could strategically see the big picture. I knew how to connect all the dots. could.
find all the resources and the people to make it happen. And I often got hired for that secret sauce, but then actually got pushed or was required to go more into guardian, maintenance mode, budget mode, details, which is my nemesis. And I would burn out and think...
what is wrong with me, what is wrong with them. And when I really sat into the Connector Creative Pioneer, I was a little bit different than Shannon, but the same. I actually assessed as a nurturer originally. I mean, I think all of us...
know, believers and humans want to answer all those questions that we really like that. But what I realized when I got to the triggers and I got to the weapons, I was like, that is so not me. And when I read, when I realized the connectors trigger and what we do, I could look back over and say those were some of the most horrible.
Jeremie (46:02.356)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (46:20.894)
you know, the moments I pulled that weapon on those people, I really resonated with the shame that I felt in that moment, but also the release to know, that's why, okay, now you can adapt to it, or now I can watch for it. Now I can put guards up or empower my friends to say, hey, when this happens, speak in, stop my tongue from speaking and actually drawing back in. it just, was like blinders got taken off of
and I looked back and went, this is why your 30 years has been as powerful but also as painful. It can all exist at the same time.
Jeremie (47:00.18)
I love it you guys the whole all of the tools that we've created have been built because of broccoli in our teeth like the every tool people always go where did you get these how did you and they're looking for like I studied in Cornell and we did a you know and it's not or I was at Harvard and we did no it's like actually I had a major issue
and couldn't explain myself and figured out why, and this is what happened. Or I had this major run-in, and most of them were negative, but we were the desire to fix them in us, right? So for us, for me, this was all about this discretion discipline. It's like, have this, I'm a connector, and I like voraciously can over-communicate and over-share. When I was running the catalyst conferences,
I would go to the interns and go, I got this idea. What do you think? And they're the wrong person to tell that idea to you. I just was excited and I'm excitable. And therefore sometimes it could be like Tigger jumping around and causing confusion. And so what happened with me is to understand, okay, these are my tendencies. These are my patterns. have 34 tendencies I've found about myself. I know when and why I do them.
Everything Made Beautiful (47:59.596)
You
Jeremie (48:21.798)
And now I know what I typically do and I'd work to trade up so that they don't mess up my influence. So that's why we built the tools. We built them to lead ourselves.
Masi Willis (48:25.326)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (48:33.87)
Good. That's really, really good.
Everything Made Beautiful (48:35.906)
Yeah, so good.
Masi Willis (48:39.352)
Go 14.
Everything Made Beautiful (48:40.64)
I was just going to say, so if somebody is going, I think we need Jeremy to come speak to our company or our organization, or we want to know more or we want to connect with him. Where can people connect with you and where can they go deeper with Giants work specifically?
Jeremie (48:55.846)
Yeah, well, so with that, I'll let you guys put up your, your link for the five voices for them to take the five voices assessment, because that would be that would be a core like go take it if you haven't taken the assessment, just because it's free, you can learn about yourself. But then bringing in Shannon or Macy to come help your organization is crucial. And it's just so important. For me, a speaker
Masi Willis (49:08.718)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremie (49:23.132)
So you just go to jeremykubichuk.com, which just rolls off your tongue, right? Jeremy, give it. So can you guys put that in the show notes? it's, yeah, it's like, thanks mom. have a, I E not a Y as in Jeremy and then Kubitschek is Chuck Zavokian. It's, difficult, but it gives all the details. And I typically, I'm speaking in this next season on two areas. I'm speaking on, the voice driven leader and basically building systems that work.
Masi Willis (49:27.884)
Yes.
Everything Made Beautiful (49:27.94)
We will put that in the show notes.
Masi Willis (49:31.852)
Yeah.
Jeremie (49:53.012)
And then the second thing I'm speaking on is peace is power. And I'm basically working, those are my two keynotes, I'm rolling out and the peace is power is the idea that you, if you're not at peace, you're going to overpower people, not empower people. And peace and power go together. And so it's just helping people. It's a lot more intimate. It's a lot more personal. Voice-driven leader is just pure leadership and I'm fired up on both of those.
Masi Willis (49:53.112)
Mm-hmm.
Masi Willis (50:10.158)
Mm.
Masi Willis (50:20.974)
I'm fired up for both of those.
Everything Made Beautiful (50:23.306)
say that statement. Yeah, say that statement about peace and power that you just said. Say that one more time.
Jeremie (50:29.403)
Yeah, so if you're not at peace, you will not bring the proper power to other people. You'll overpower people out of insecurity. You won't empower them. So the idea that peace leads to power, and if you're not a person of peace, if you're not at peace, no one wants to refer you to anyone else. So you have to work on the ins... It has to go inside out. You have to work on the inside.
so that the outside can actually meet the expectations you've always wanted.
Masi Willis (50:59.47)
Wow, what a what a nugget. I love it. Well, it's been great Jeremy. Thank you for being with us today. Any final words or Shannon for me?
Everything Made Beautiful (51:01.572)
So good.
Jeremie (51:11.799)
congratulations to both of you. and I'll just say this to, to both of you. you guys are freedom fighters. You're liberators. you, you fight for the highest possible good. I know you both so well, and I know your heartbeat for people. And I know you also are so fun, both of you and you like to have fun. And it's like, so, so the freedom that you, you have and the desire that you have to free other people.
Everything Made Beautiful (51:14.948)
you
Jeremie (51:40.755)
is so evident and I just want to bless that and like go keep going. Go to the next level. Remove any inhibitions that would keep you from fighting for freedom and having fun along the way because that's really what you guys are about.
Everything Made Beautiful (51:56.28)
Hmm. Hmm.
That's so good. Jeremy, thank you for those kind words. Thank you for sharing with us today. I know people are like, I should have had a pen and a paper. Well, the good news is you can go back and re-listen to it.
Jeremie (52:10.119)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (52:10.934)
We will put all of the information that Jeremy shared in the show notes along with a five voices assessment. And remember that for the next several weeks, Macy and I will be diving into each of those five voices that Jeremy mentioned and talking about some of the more distinct aspects of each voice. So don't miss that. And this week be on the lookout for all of the ways that you can lead like you mean it. And we will see you next time.