Welcome back to The Inspired
Living with Autoimmunity podcast.
I'm your host, Julie Michelson, and today
we're joined by Stephanie Center, the
host of the Revolutionary Health Podcast.
Functional diagnostic, nutrition
practitioner and occupational therapist.
In today's conversation, we are talking
about the connection between gut health
and autoimmunity and how mold toxicity
can contribute to a variety of symptoms
and show up in many different ways.
Stephanie, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.
I am excited for our conversation and
I couldn't wait to hit record because I
knew some good things were gonna come up.
And I know listeners wanna hear too.
So let's jump in.
I know you have like so many of us, your
own healing story that, that brought
you into the functional medicine world.
Um, share your journey with us.
Yeah, so I've heard you say this before
on your podcast and it's totally true.
Like nobody wakes up going,
oh, I think I'm gonna be an
expert in all immune conditions.
It's like, no, you get here
because life was really hard
for you at some point in time.
Yes,
And, um, I, I do have
a medical background.
I worked as an occupational therapist and
mostly in hospitals, but I've been kind of
everywhere over the span of, uh, a decade.
Wow.
That makes me feel old.
Oh, please, girl.
Oh yeah.
So, uh, what, what happened?
Where, what was the straw
that broke the camel's back?
I was working in traditional medicine.
I was, I was seeing patients.
I even worked in the hospital
through Covid a little bit,
and that was interesting.
Um, but what happened?
I got sick and the system didn't help me.
And I remember I'm, I'm a very, um, I have
a lot of gumption, I guess as a polite way
to say that I would sit down with the c
e o of the hospital that I worked at and,
and I would sit down with him and have
lunch with him regularly and say, look,
Look, Lou, like this system is broken.
Let me tell you why you lost my
business as a patient, because
I don't think I'm a snowflake.
I don't think I'm special.
Um, I am having all of these symptoms.
I, I remember, uh, very distinctly
being 29 years old and looking down
and being on all these medications
when just a year prior I had been on no
medications as 28 year olds should be, and
thinking like, my problem isn't solved.
So what was my problem?
I was exposed to black mold.
I had, I was in, and this is
the scary part, I was living
in a brand new apartment.
I was the very first tenant in Nashville,
Tennessee, and there was black mold.
And mold is kind of interesting in
that it kicks you where you're down.
So I already had probably some digestive
issues that I didn't know about cuz
when you're in your twenties you're
like, whatever, I'll sleep it off.
And I just woke up one morning and
was like, my world has changed and I
had all these symptoms and my husband,
who was also living in this mold
place had very different symptoms.
So mold is not, um, it's not like, oh,
here are the signs and symptoms of mold.
It's like, no, no, no.
It can be a, it can be
a bunch of different
Like literally anything really?
anything.
And so here I am.
Uh, I don't know.
I have mold and I'm
going from doctor to doc.
Sp you know, and every doctor is
siloed, which is its own problem cuz
these doctors aren't talking to each
other and I'm like, oh, oh my word.
I'm on all these meds
and I don't feel better.
Like something's gotta give.
And I was on a lot of
committees at my hospital.
I was the cheerleader, I was, you know,
trying to, um, make a change and make
a difference in the hospital setting.
And I just had this aha moment of
like, Steph, this is bigger than you.
This is bigger than you.
And um, that's kind of when I went
off on my own and started to learn
about functional lab testing.
And I was just like, I, I remember,
I also remember distinctly
thinking, okay, thyroid's involved.
There's something wrong with my thyroid.
I went to my primary care physician
on three different occasions
asking, begging for a thyroid panel,
Yep,
be given ts h We've all, if you're
listening, you are like raising your hand.
I've been there.
I know that
too.
Yes.
And so I finally said, do you
have to be a doctor to order these
things because like you are just
not getting what I'm asking you for.
And I even at one point wrote on the
lab, this is what I want to get measured.
And I remember there was an
older lady in the waiting room
going, can I see your paper?
Before I left the lab, um, which
is just, anyways, so that's
how I got into this business.
Um, I never dreamed of
being an entrepreneur.
I never, uh, had, you know, you just,
you, you're in a position where you have
a problem and nobody's solving it for
you, and you have to solve it yourself.
That's how I got here,
And then you get motivated to
help other people do the same.
100%.
And that's why we're all so
passionate about what we do, right?
Because we know that pain.
absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um,
Sorry for my long-winded answer.
no, no, no.
There's so many.
I have something in my eye for
anybody watching the video.
I'm not crying.
Um, there,
was just so moving.
yes.
Well, and I ca I actually could
feel it cuz I've been there.
Um, and same thing, I, I showed
up at my doctor after years
and years of t s h testing.
Mm.
said, I want this.
And I, you know, I had written
down everything that's on a full
functional panel and she said,
I'm so happy to do it, but I won't
know what to do with the results.
Like, that's the next level
Oh,
too.
Right?
Because I, I am one of many who,
I don't convert my T4 to t3.
And so,
Synthroid's not gonna solve your
no, I had already been on it for
three years with no results, you know?
man.
so anyway, it, it's, it's sadly
common and this is why we do what
we do and have these conversations
so that everybody listening that
was raising their hand, there are
other places you can go for help,
100%.
And people who know what
they're talking about.
Yeah.
That's the other piece is you have
to understand what the lab means and
you know how to, how do you know?
I, I very much felt, and I don't
know if you had this experience,
but when I did have labs that were
off, it was like, well, this is
just how your life is gonna be now.
Right?
Like, this is just, we don't
have a solution for you.
We can just tell you you're not normal.
It's like, well, that's not very
helpful or empowering either.
Well, no, it's all disempowering.
And I, I was thinking, you know,
when you said, you know, I did,
nobody knew what was wrong with me
and I was on all these medications.
It wasn't a me a prescription deficiency
like we were, know, that's the, like,
we need to get that in our head.
Nobody is defic deficient
in pharmaceuticals.
Who love
I'm not non-pharmaceutical.
There is definitely a time
and a place and, and sometimes
we need both as a bridge.
How, I'm curious, like how did
you figure out about the mold?
Because I literally was just having
this conversation this morning
about somebody who has issues
going on and mold is a piece.
Um, but how did you, like you
said you was a brand new building
and I'm so glad you shared that.
Because we tend to think like, oh,
you know, mold is only if you can
see black mold on the walls, or
if it smells musty, it's an old
beach house, something like that.
And people really need to understand that
new construction can have mold as well.
So how did you connect the dots
between here's what was going on
with my gut, um, or was it just
because you did full testing?
Um, I'll preface this by saying it
was not an overnight revelation.
It took me,
Yeah.
I suffered for about a good year and
a half with no answers, feeling really
hopeless, feeling really out of sorts.
Um, I finally found, I found
a functional medicine doctor.
She's an, she's an md, um, who's
known for thinking outside the
box, and she just looked at me
and she goes, what if it's mold?
And I'll be real honest, I laughed.
I was like, there's no, like,
I live in a brand new,
I don't have respiratory symptoms
that, you know, you would associate
with mold, but I said, you know what,
that's one window we haven't opened
in this house, so let's open it.
Um, and sure enough, I, I was positive for
multiple types of mold, but stacky bots,
the black mold, the, the king of all mold.
The one.
Yep.
Oh one was through the roof and
um, I'm really glad you mentioned
like not being against medicine.
I'm not at all against medicine.
I did, um, antifungal medication
and that was very effective for me.
Which is great, and I love that
you share that part of your story.
Everybody thinks it, it's like I,
I, I take thyroid hormone and, and
I don't look at that as a failure.
right.
like I would fight somebody in
an alley if they tried to take my
thyroid hormone away because I feel
so good when my thyroid is optimal.
Um, and I know, you know, there is
a camp of like, well you should be
able to fix every, I don't care.
My whole thing is about feeling
well enough to live well.
Right.
Enjoy life, not have that, which
I know I can hear from your story.
You know, life gets smaller
and smaller and smaller.
And when we're sick,
Mm-hmm.
And so I, I have people come to me
all the time, I heard your story.
I wanna do what you did.
I wanna get off meds.
And I'm like, let's just figure out
what's keeping you from feeling well.
And then as a side effect, your
doctors may take you off your
medication right as you heal.
Like it's not, um, you know, it's the.
Prescription after prescription after
prescription for the prescriptions
when you're still not I, I joke, if
my meds were working, we would not
be having this conversation today.
I would still be taking them
and going about my business, you
know, cuz I wouldn't know better.
So, yeah, I, I, I love that you shared
that because people think, you know,
if it's not herbal, you can't do it.
And sometimes you need,
you know, a heavy hitter.
My, my daughter is home visiting and
she was just talking about she had sibo
and, and she was saying, um, you know,
I, I, I really felt the best when I was
on Xifaxan, which is for those who don't
know, like a heavy hitting antibiotic.
But, you know, we don't really want
somebody on unless they have to be on it.
But it was a clear indication.
She tried other stuff first.
You know, so
a huge fan of Xifaxan.
Yeah.
yeah, it's
And you know what, it's what
makes sense for the person too.
Like I hate that we live in a
world where everything is so
like it's you're pro and anti.
Yeah.
It's like, why can't we
just do what makes sense?
Right, right.
And I, I think that's, I will
say like in the beginning of.
My functional medicine journey, like once
I had healed and you know, and I went
through the things I think most of us do.
It's, it's kind of like the, you
know, process of phases of grief.
It's like the phases of healing where
then when you find out you're the ne I
got angry, like, oh my gosh, you know,
I, all these things were wrong, you know?
Um, but I work with an amazing
doc and, and I think there
is something to be said for.
You know, an MD or a DO who's practicing
functional medicine who can really
marry those worlds is, you know, it,
it has shown me that, like, okay.
Yeah.
The, the best of both worlds is
really the best of both worlds.
100%.
Yeah.
I love it.
So you mentioned Gut and, and I.
Hope people don't get tired of
hearing and I don't think so because
it, it's just such a vast topic
of gut health and autoimmunity.
Right.
And, and how does one affect the other?
Um, and, and so let's, let's talk a little
bit, you know, you said, oh, I probably
already had a weakness in my gut and
that's why the mold exasperated, or it.
You know, either show, you know, made
it pop up to begin with or, um, but
what is this, you know, connection.
Uh, people are like, oh, here's gut
health, but why is it so important?
Oh my goodness.
How much time do we
I know.
Big question.
uh, for me, that's where my,
that's where mold presented for me.
And I think that is kind
of a, a unique story.
Most, most people aren't going.
Oh, yeah.
Molding gut.
Molding, gut.
Um, and so that must have been.
And you know, then, then you start
to get reflective and you're like,
yeah, I remember as a kid when my
parents would take me to Olive Garden.
I don't have a tummy ache after that.
I didn't, my body didn't
like Olive Garden.
Um, and you, you kind of go, oh yeah,
I probably wasn't like Stellar Health.
Like I
Well, we normalize.
How do you even know?
I like you don't know.
You're only in your body.
Yeah, and you don't, A lot of, and this
is true for a lot of women that I serve,
that they don't, they don't realize how
bad they feel until they start feeling
Oh my gosh.
And so for me, I woke
up vulnerable moment.
I woke up one morning and I went 17 days
without a bowel movement, which is super,
I was never constipated in my life.
So when this mold hit, it hit me hard.
I ended up in the emergency room.
Um, ironically at the hospital that
I worked at, and, um, yeah, which I
thought, well, this was a sh this was a
really, um, this was a red flag for me.
This was, um, a, a wake up moment for me.
Like I had terrible, terrible care.
Um, and this is not to, to, to,
I love the people I work with.
They,
No, no, it's
It just, I, I, listen, I packed my bags.
I told my husband, I have
a small bowel obstruction.
I'm going to the emergency room today.
They're going to do surgery.
Here's what's gonna happen, da da, da, da.
So I get there, they do a scan.
I do not have a small bowel obstruction.
They just said, you are
really constipated here.
We're gonna write you a prescription
for an enema, and then you're gonna
go to Publix across the street, the
local grocery store, and you're gonna
fill this prescription and go home.
And I was like, wow, a thousand dollars
later, um, I could have just gone
and gotten over the counter enma and
like, also, don't you think I tried
this already before coming to you?
So it was just like, and then
they're like, and we'll set you
up with a gastroenterologist who
can meet with you in November.
And it was July at the time.
So I was just like, whoa,
like, and I'm just supposed to
suffer between now and then.
Um, and, and the, the funny thing about
mold, if you don't treat the root cause
of mold, which is mold exposure, um, Your
problem is not going to go away because
mold colonizes and grows in your body.
And so I was on all these different
meds to like make me go and really
what happened is it almost co
caused like bowel incontinence.
I remember I was hiking one day and I
was like, I think it's coming out of me
because my problem wasn't constipation.
My problem was this fungal
overgrowth in my gut.
That, um, I didn't need Lynnes, right.
I didn't need that medication.
That didn't solve my problem.
And I was just like, what in the world?
So I did, you know, the colonoscopies?
I did the endoscopies.
Well, we d You're not celiac.
We can't Yeah.
You're okay.
No colon cancer.
Great.
Thank you.
I'm so grateful for that.
But why do I have this problem, this,
this horrible problem that won't go away?
And um, and I will say too,
like healing is a journey.
Even after figuring out the mold,
it wasn't like I felt good right
away, it took years to heal.
So if you, if you're listening, like be
in it for the long haul, like celebrate
your quick wins, but know that you're
gonna have good days and bad days.
It's, it's like the stock market.
It's gonna go up over time.
But listen, there are gonna be some
real dips in the meat in the middle.
And that, that's kind
of my, my story there.
That is the first, I've never heard
Healing is like a, like the stock
market, but you definitely wanna
be a long-term investor for sure.
Yes.
I love that.
And it's so true and, and I just
had this conversation yesterday.
I feel so well, but I feel so
well because I do the things.
Right.
And then when I'm not doing the
things to the, you know, the way
I should be, guess what I mean?
Thank God I I will never, cuz I
have the power go back to where
I was when I was really sick.
But you know, I, I know like if I don't
get enough sleep two nights in a row,
well you better believe that third night
I am getting my sleep because I, I just.
Can't.
Um, and, and we get hit with different
stuff and we need to adjust and grow and
it's a process that's never done for sure.
Absolutely.
And I would say also if like if
you are somebody on a healing
journey, For me, I took it too far.
Like I was down to like 11 foods
that I trusted, and for a year and
a half, I only ate food that I made.
I wasn't eating out, I wasn't, and that's
not a great quality of life either.
So finding that balance of like, of
course I'm never gonna eat McDonald's
again, but also if I'm going to
a wedding, I should be able to
participate in that meal at the wedding.
Right.
So finding that like,
To a degree.
yeah, that middle ground.
Yeah.
Well, and I do think, I think it's part
of the process when we've been so sick.
And then we find, you know, what helps us
get well, I went through the same thing.
Um, and, and that's one of the reasons I
always joke with, with clients when we're
getting ready to do an elimination diet.
I'm like, I know you think this sounds
crazy, but you are not going to want to
reintroduce and we are going to do it
while we're together because you need
the most varied diet that supports you.
And, but, so I do think, I
think that's very common.
Of, you know, we just hold onto, I, I have
a client who has RA and ulcerative colitis
and I was talking to her yesterday.
She's been doing amazing.
Like really quick.
It's just crazy, you know, so quickly.
And I, that was one of
the questions I asked.
I said, well, have you been eating out?
And she said, yeah.
I was like, yes.
You know, you're not just hiding
in your house eating these few
things cuz that's the point.
Big life.
We want big life.
Big.
Oh, I like that pig
Yeah, me too.
So you, you talked about, and I
don't know, for me, I was like,
well, yeah, it makes sense.
I know we, we mentioned mold
can show up anywhere, right?
People ask me all the time,
well, what are the symptoms?
I'm like, what symptoms do you have?
Yeah.
It could be, you know,
um, at least a factor.
And you're right, we initially think
of respiratory stuff, you know, that
would be something that would lead
people to check for mold quicker.
I, but I think of toxins and gut health
as definitely going together or counter
to each other, and mold is a toxin.
And so that does make sense to me.
Let's talk a little bit about it.
It can be mold specific or toxins
in general and how that impacts gut.
Oh, absolutely.
Cuz your immune system
lives in your gut, right?
So, and, and like just
basic biology, right?
You have one hole from your mouth.
To your butt and that you just have
one tube and the air you breathe
is going into that, that tube.
Anything you drink, anything you eat.
Um, I, I interviewed,
um, Michael Rubino once.
He's the, he's like a mold expert.
He's, he wrote the mold medic book and
he's, he said something, he blew my mind.
He goes, we take 20,000 breaths a day.
That's 20,000 opportunities for
things to enter our respiratory
tract, but also our digestive tract
Yeah, and don't stop breathing people.
Don't.
Yep.
Don't hold your breath.
Uh, but yeah, I mean there are
other toxins outside of mold that
exist and that live and, and, and
I think that, That's part of this
conversation of the microbiome.
Everybody's interested in the microbiome,
like, where did this come from?
What is this?
Um, and then we could, I mean, if we
really wanted to go down that, that rabbit
hole of glyphosate and how that strips,
you know, the mic, the biodiversity
of our soil, so we're not getting
biodiversity in our food like we used to.
And that offsets our gut.
We we're not, we're not as well equipped.
For those toxins that we come
in contact to because we already
are added disadvantage, uh,
biodiversity wise in our gut.
Um, I don't know if that
answered your question
does.
I, it, it definitely.
Um, and, and again, it's like you said,
it's not necessarily mold specific.
It's, it's all the toxins.
It, you know, you can't separate
out glyphosate from I, I'm one,
not everybody feels the same way I
feel if you had the one, I think.
W Health is individualized and, and,
um, there's no one plan for everybody.
But I do the, to me, the one
constant is if you have autoimmunity,
gluten is not your friend.
Hmm.
And then I do follow it up with,
I, I can't tell you if it's the
actual gluten or the glyphosate
because you can't separate them out.
If you live in this
country, you just can't.
And so, and it doesn't matter really.
I mean, you know, one day we
will know which one's worse.
I think it's probably
the glyphosate for sure.
Um, but when we talk, and that's
where it's the how much time do
you have conversation, because when
we talk about, you know, well, why
are autoimmune numbers exploding?
You know, and is it.
Our food system or is it the toxins?
Well, our food system is toxic,
so how do you, like, how do
you separate those factors?
I think you just can't,
no,
not to be doom and gloom really,
at all because we have agency
over all of these things.
Right.
You can choose what you eat.
We, we could grow our own
gardens if we wanted to.
We don't have to.
I do, and I I cannot wait until.
You know, we're gonna plant
in probably about three weeks.
Um, and, and it, you know, I live
somewhere where I don't, I don't grow in
the winter other than my parsnips, and I
still have some in the garden from last
year, which is amazing to me that they
can just still be so happy and tasty.
Um, I, I am tempted, my, my best
friend lives in Florida in a condo, and
she has this like hydroponic indoor.
Garden and I'm like,
we may need to do that.
So we have stuff all winter long because
in the summer and I have, you know, clean
protein in the freezer in the summer,
I barely go to the store at all because
we just go outside and get dinner.
That's awesome.
great, Ben.
That's not a reality for everybody.
And people say, well, I
don't know how to garden.
I don't know how to garden.
I just plant stuff and it
seems to grow in spite of me.
You know, like it's, I am, I am like the
least educated gardener and we just added
two more garden beds because we just love
the abundance of the food all summer.
Um, but again, so, uh, aside from,
that's really, you know, taking ownership
and, and an opportunity, I do believe
that you can, like my friend grows
inside, you can garden anywhere, but.
That's not a starting point
usually for most people.
So what are your, like what, what
should people be doing and, and,
and maybe specifically people with
autoimmunity if they're listening.
Let's go back to the mold.
Before we get into the food.
Yeah.
If somebody's listening and
they're like, well, I have
symptoms that just don't add up.
Right.
Or they don't, they don't really know.
Um, You know, what should they do?
How do they explore?
So there are a couple things you can do
if you want to get data on your house.
Like if you are thinking, oh, I
think my house might have mold,
um, there's a test called an army.
It's environmental mold relativity index.
Um, pretty cheap test to do.
You get a wipe or you can get
multiple wipes depending on
how many spaces you wanna test.
Um, there are pros and cons to
the test, just like any test.
Uh, but I think overall it gives you
the richest amount of data, the be
best bang for your buck if you wanted
to test this space you're living in.
Um, now if you're wanting
to test yourself, like, does
my, does my body form mold?
Uh, there are a few ways you can do that.
You can, uh, great Plains
has a great Myco profile.
I also like, um, just your
regular IgG G um, IgE blood
mold test to see like, do you
Oh, really?
short term reaction to mold or a long-term
reaction to mold and the different types.
And that can give us, I always think of
like, because with mold you can't look
at somebody's report and be like, oh yes.
So you, since 1979 you've been
doing, you know, you can't do that.
It's not, it's not akin to like, I
compare it to a stroke on an m r I,
you can look at someone's m r i and
you can tell, oh, this stroke was
acute, or this stroke was remote.
You can't really do that with mold
except when you use these blood tests
where you can say, oh, you're having
an acute response to this, or you're
having a long-term response, and
then we can go, oh, well maybe your
childhood home had this and maybe
you don't have it, or something.
It gives, gives us more
nuanced information.
Um, but I will also say like, if
you're gonna test yourself, it
makes sense to test your house.
Because if your house, if you, if
you're positive for it and you don't
know about your house, you're not
really doing yourself a service
Right,
you're gonna have constant exposure to
it if you're living in a house with it.
Um, that would be, that would
can you heal from mold toxicity
while you're currently being exposed?
yeah.
That would be very hard.
I don't know.
I mean, you can certainly try it.
It'd be just a game of
merry round, you know?
Yeah, I'm gonna go with No, you
Yeah.
I, it was a tra it was a leading question.
I, it, I mean, I, you know, can't,
I can't swear nobody ever could.
Um, but yeah, that's an uphill battle
be like trying to paddle a
boat that has a hole in it.
Like you're not, you're not gonna
get very far cuz you have a, you
have an entry for water, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and so say somebody has multi,
you know, they, they get tested,
they have mold toxicity, they, you
know, figure out it's this house.
It was an old house.
I lived in South Florida for 13 years,
Um,
before I got ill, but I have no doubt
that that was where I was exposed.
Um,
place for
oh yeah.
And I, but you know, call
it, it's everywhere now.
It is,
literally everywhere.
When we moved here 20 years
ago, we were told, you know, oh,
there's no mold in Colorado Bull.
Like, yes, there is, there's mold
in Arizona, so it doesn't really,
doesn't matter where you live,
some places for sure are worse.
Um, but I I, if somebody says, you
know, they, they do the testing, they
find out, okay, I have mold toxicity.
We're gonna go after that.
Mm-hmm.
Is it ever in isolation or you know,
do you have people do other things?
Oh, that's a great question.
Thank you.
Ooh, right, because you're,
what's a good example of this?
Most, most people that have a
thyroid problem don't have a
thyroid problem because they
have a thyroid problem, right?
Most people with a thyroid problem
have a thyroid problem because
they have a problem somewhere else.
So that, that's kind of where the
conversation goes with mold is like,
well, where is it presenting in your body?
What problems is it causing you?
And it does, it kind of is like,
uh, a choose your own adventure
sort of deal where you're going.
Where do we look next?
Like what do we think is happening?
And you're just kind of appealing the
layers of the onion for somebody, um,
which is super empowering by the way, when
you finally have answers and validation.
Like for like, if you're listening
100%, this is not in your head.
Like you are not crazy.
Thank you.
Yes.
are valid and real.
Um, and your experience is gonna
be different from somebody else's.
And that's why, um, I'm really
against our cookie cutter healthcare
system that kind of treats everybody
like they're in an assembly line.
Um, and, and so I think it's so
important to, to treat somebody
as an individual, as a person.
Yeah, we're gonna use lab data
to validate your health concerns,
but we're not treating the lab
data, we're treating the human.
And that's gonna look
different for everybody.
and we're not treating the symptoms, like
you said, it's the why, like why, why
Yeah, your symptoms are important.
They matter.
I want you to tell me your symptoms,
Oh, absolutely.
but yeah, we're not,
a pill for your symptom.
It's gonna be, then we're gonna ask, why
Why are you
that way?
Yeah,
Amen.
Because you're not having a migraine
because, You're having a migraine.
You're having a migraine cause something
else is happening in your body.
So yeah, let's, we don't want you
to suffer with migraines, but we
also need to figure out why you're
having them in the first place.
Um, I don't even remember what
your question was originally.
that it was, so say somebody like,
like you mentioned, and for, we'll
just take it back to your story.
Um, you, you know, mold will,
it's opportunistic, right?
So it's going to show up in your body
where you probably already have something
going on, even if you weren't aware.
So for you it was gut and we're talking
gut health and autoimmunity and,
and so I'm guessing you didn't just.
Go after the mold, like,
and then that was it.
You took the medication, you took the
antifungal, and then you were all better.
Oh heck no.
That was just the, that
was the starting line.
If this was a marathon,
that was like mile three.
Um, because then you, you learn about
more healing opportunities in your body.
Like, because you have to ask yourself,
like, why did, like, if somebody
else were to live in this apartment,
would the, would they be feeling
the same thing as me, or would they.
wasn't right,
He wasn't, yeah, he, we had very, he
did, I mean he did react to the mold,
but he was nowhere near as sick as me.
And so that made me consider, well,
do I need to do genetic testing?
Do I need to do, you know, it just
kind of opens your mind up to all
these things that you could be doing.
Cuz ultimately I.
We wanna feel, well, we want that,
we want a great quality of life.
Um, so no, I didn't just stop at mold.
I worked really, really, really
hard to heal my gut, um, because I
had identified that as a weak spot.
And so, um, I did a lot of things.
Some things worked and some things didn't.
And you just kind of, um, Trial and error
things and, and I would say, I would
say that as an encouragement, if you're
listening and you're like, well, I tried
to heal my gut and it didn't work well,
then you didn't try the right thing.
Try something new and work with a
practitioner that's not so cavalier that
they think that, you know, this is the,
way.
Yeah.
Yeah, and, and work with a practitioner.
I mean, I, I healed a majority of,
of my symptoms, at least with that
before I found a practitioner, but I.
I always joke, I don't recommend, I
literally, it was like throwing spaghetti
at the wall to see what sticks, right?
I would listen to a podcast and try
or read a book and try and, because I
didn't know there was this thing called
functional medicine and that there were
people, there were health coaches and
practitioners that could help guide,
uh, which is why you and I do what we
do because we can shortcut for people.
We can really help guide them.
Um, but I love what you said.
Nobody.
There is no.
All knowing practitioner or coach or
anybody who has the one way to heal,
like that's just not, so you wanna
make sure you're, you have somebody
who you know, has a lot of tools
or will refer you if they're stuck.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Or partner with people, you know.
I mean, that's, that's
do that all the time.
what about.
This is an opinion question, but
it's an educated opinion question.
Um, because this is trickier, I think,
I find in practice to convince people.
Um, somebody comes to you and they have
autoimmunity and maybe mold and, and
you know, the list, a list of things,
but they don't have gut symptoms, right?
Because in I, I think it was easy for you
to know you needed to work on gut healing.
Right.
But what about people who
don't have gut symptoms?
Do you think they still have gut
healing work to do if they have other
expressions of autoimmune conditions?
Ooh.
That's a great question.
I've never been asked that before.
I, um, it's funny you mentioned that
I'm actually working with a client
right now who does, who, who jokes and
says she has an iron gut and, um, we
have decided to run a GI map on her
because she has other symptoms that w
that even though they're not digestive,
they still kind of nod to the gut.
Like, well may, but maybe this is gut
related and we just don't know it yet.
Um, cuz the gut plays so many
roles in your, in your body.
It's not just rest and digest.
What are, I'm gonna just keep
throwing you under the bus
cuz I know you can handle it.
What are some of those other things that
nod to, that's probably involved somehow?
Yeah, so we were talking about cravings.
Cravings, um, can maybe indicate
some nutritional deficiencies or
mal-absorption or something, um,
feelings and this and or overgrowth.
Yeah.
Um, and, and I'm gonna like say
this as a blanket statement,
like feelings have maybe anxiety.
Yes.
I was hoping you were gonna say that.
yeah, and I, and I say like there are
lots of things that cause anxiety,
and I'm not trying to say that it's
all related to the gut, but it can be
because anxiety can be your body's way
of saying, hello, something's wrong.
Pay attention to me.
and your neurotransmitters are,
most of them are made in the gut.
So it's, it's, you know, we think
of somebody has anxiety and that
stress causes gut problems, but it's
like chicken or egg or, and yeah.
So I was hoping, I, I was, I.
Secretly hoping you were
gonna say anxiety as well.
All right.
I'm glad I hit that ball when you pitched.
Hey, I knew you would.
Uh, but no, all of them, I mean,
so really there's, there's.
I don't think, and this has been an
evolution for me, um, because when,
when we started learning more and more
about the microbiome and the gut, and
I was one of those people who rolled
my eyes like, uh, everything's the gut.
Everything's the, now.
I'm like, oh, holy moly.
It really all, like you said it, it
may not be the cause, but at some
point it's involved and I believe.
Unless you've already done that
intensive work to heal the gut,
like you said, you've done, if you
have autoimmunity, you need to heal.
Like I, I told, I've yet to find
anybody who doesn't have leaky gut,
that already has autoimmune expression.
Hmm.
Yeah.
I think one of the drivers, right?
Or if you have a high toxic burden,
whether it's mold or environmental
or metals or all three, which
usually, you know, it's a combo,
um, chances are pretty good.
That has affected the integrity
of the gut in some way.
Um, and, and so I really
do think that it's.
Just gotta be part of a healing protocol.
Is, is, but I find it, the reason
I was asking really was personal.
I find it harder, it's easy to,
to work with people on gut healing
when they have severe gut symptoms.
Right.
But when they think they have an iron
gut or they feel fine in that sense,
you know, it's harder to get them
to make some possibly uncomfortable
temporary changes, at least with
diet as we're working on healing.
Um, and so I was just curious as
to, you know, as to what you see.
Yeah, I've, I've definitely
come across that.
Um, or something, you know, you'll run
a hormone panel and, um, like you're
probably familiar with the Dutch.
The Dutch, they, um, they
give you inkin, which
Not the Dutch people.
By the way, this is the Dutch
sorry, dried urine test
of comprehensive hormones.
Yes.
Good, good, good catch.
Um, You get in this world and
you, you're like, everybody knows
knows what a Dutch is and some
people are like, I'm Dutch.
What?
Um, so that test has a marker that
can kind of, or multiple markers in my
opinion, that can kind of point to maybe,
oh, maybe there's something going on in
your gut that we need to pay attention to.
And that's, that's kind of the
beauty of comprehensive functional
Labs, is they give you ideas on.
On what's happening in, in a certain place
in your body and maybe where to look next.
Um, so that you don't, you never feel,
you never have a feeling of hopelessness
because you're always going, well, there's
something else we can uncover here.
There's something else we can do.
And so if this isn't your
like magic bullet that fixes
your problem, guess what?
We have another place where we
can look for answers because
this test points to that.
And it's, I think it's really empowering.
To kind of give that to somebody and,
and not only validate, like I, I get,
I get a lot of tears from clients.
Like, oh my gosh, it's
so good to know that.
Like, I'm not crazy.
Yeah.
And there's, and I'll tell you, there's
nothing on any of these functional
labs that any of us are intimidated by.
Like you have agency over
everything on those labs.
So you use those labs as validation
and then empowerment to heal.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you know, functional testing is.
Can be expensive and, and there are so
many rocks to look under that it's, it is
great to have the guidance to do like a
comprehensive, something comprehensive.
I know you used Dutch, I used a
different, you know, comprehensive
blood tests, but it really gives us
the like, okay, you know, this is
the, the first rock to look under.
These are the first rocks to look under.
Um, cuz I am somebody, because
I lived it for so long.
That I wanna look under all
the rocks, like immediately.
Right?
Like, I just wanna know, and that's
not realistic for most people
and, and not necessary either.
Um, and, and so I love that you said,
you know, it's a, it's great, it's
validating and it also can guide both.
Yes.
And I, and I wanna clarify, I
do not, I do not tell clients,
let's do 12 different labs.
but I'm saying like, I would if I
could, cause I love data, you know.
we start with one and then months
down the road I'll do another one
because that first test is gonna give
us a lot of things we can work on.
Um, but yeah, I, I also think,
but like yourself, I got curious
and I was like, I need to do all
the tests to see all the things.
Yeah.
I'm a practitioner so that I
should be interested in doing
Exactly, exactly.
Like this is the I, I'm like, oh wow.
They can test that.
I wanna try,
Yeah.
I wanna see what's going on in there.
And that's where like we were talking
about glyphosate earlier I had done,
I knew I had mold toxicity and I
knew I had heavy metal toxicity.
I.
And then all of a sudden when I
started using for my clients a,
a complete toxin panel that also
included environmental toxins.
This is after years and years
of me living clean and doing the
things and healing and detoxing.
I was like, well, I wanna, I wanna
do a, you know, I haven't done that.
I'm gonna run a full panel on me.
I was like, holy moly, how like I still
have glyphosate through the roof, like
somehow I've been able to clear metals
and molds, but that I've held onto B P A.
I haven't used plastics in forever.
You know, it's wild.
And I love, and no, I, it's not really
changing anything about how I live.
Other than reminding me that maybe
I need to be upleveling some of my
protocols for myself, cuz I'm human too.
Um, but so you don't need, you
don't need to do all that testing
just when you, when, like you said,
when you're living in this world,
it's like, you know, I'm curious.
I wanna know.
Yeah.
I love And we can, and we can
find out now, which is exciting.
Yeah, I, I love playing detective.
I love, and I, I'll be my
first Guinea pig, right?
Like, I
Oh yeah.
whenever I hear about a new test, I
always run it on myself first, cuz I'm
Oh, me too.
is this
helpful?
I, let's see,
Yeah.
I did a new D N A test, new
to me DNA n a test last year,
and I was like, This is cool.
Like I, we did it to see, would
you know, would it be useful
for clients and patients?
Like, is it something, and for me it
was like, oh look, I have a genetic
predisposition to procrastinate.
This is.
That's awesome.
My, my daughter was complaining about
that I am very deadline motivated, like
my daughter was, was complaining about,
and I'm like, sorry, it's genetic.
In your jeans.
saying our genes are our destiny people.
It's just fun to explore some
of these things and be like,
oh, so we covered a lot.
And you can pick from something
you've already talked about
or totally out of the blue.
But what is one thing that
listeners can do today?
Like if they were nodding along with
any of this conversation, what's
something they can do to start to
move their needle on their health?
Yeah, I love this question and I always
have like 18 different answers picked out,
I know,
I don't know what I wanna say more.
out.
Okay, so we've been talking about mold,
so I'm gonna tell, I'm gonna tell, I'm
just gonna say two things, if that's okay.
Two free things you can do.
Okay.
One thing, open your
windows, get ventilation.
Okay.
Your, like your outdoor air is,
I would argue, almost always
cleaner than your indoor air.
So get ventilation in your house.
Open your windows for 30 minutes a day.
Um, that's easy.
It's free.
Um, it should feel good to have
like outdoor air coming in.
Yeah.
Fresh air.
Um, even in the wintertime, even if
you live in northern Michigan, yes.
Do it for 30 minutes a day.
It won't kill you.
Um, and the other thing
is take your shoes off.
When you get in your house, that's
another free thing you can do.
You know what you're tracking in.
You don't want me to tell you what's
living on the bottom of your shoes,
and especially if you have carpet.
100%.
Please take your shoes off
when you get into your home.
For babies and toddlers and
people that are gonna be
oh my gosh.
Yeah.
crawling around on the floor.
I have a six month old who is rolling,
That's why I said it.
Yeah.
Multiple times.
Like I turned around just
earlier today and she had rolled
like three consecutive times.
She was like on the other side
of the room and I was like, oh
no, this is starting already.
Yes.
I need to get one of those baby
jails, one of those like pack
and plays to put her in now.
for a little while
until she can break out.
Yeah.
Until she can be, oh.
Sorry.
That'll be a while.
You, you'll have respite in
between, so, but that's awesome.
So open those windows.
I, I love saying that all.
I'm so glad you said that.
We were talking about new construction,
you know, also potentially having mold,
and this is one of the reasons why it, it,
it can be such a problem is because now.
For code and to pass inspection.
Homes have to be too airtight, I think
too airtight, like they have to pa I
watched them, I built the home that we
live in now, and I, I watched them do
that test where they make sure you know
when everything's closed up and that's the
best solution is okay, open those windows.
You know, we all think
like, oh no, but I have.
You know, like I do, I have air filters
and I, but we don't tend to really
remember that the air outside is so much
cleaner than the air inside the house.
For sure.
So I love that tip.
I'm really glad you gave that one.
And the shoes thing, it's, it's funny,
the things that when I was young, I used
to think were kind of like neurotic.
just smart.
Like, it's
Yeah.
it's just, it's just
based in good science.
Um, so really great tips.
I'm glad you gave both
cause you got the bonus.
It's, it's so hard to give just one.
There's, so you have more agency
over your health than you realize.
You really do.
I love that.
And that's what exactly why
we have these conversations.
That's the whole point.
Because chronic illness can be
so disempowering, and that's
why Steph and I are here is to
help you take your power back.
Yeah.
So for those that listen like I do,
which is usually on the go, where's the
best place for listeners to find you?
Yeah, so I, I have a little podcast,
um, it's called Revolutionary
Health with Stephanie Center.
It's on any and all of
your favorite, uh, podcast
Same as these.
Yep.
Yep.
So just type in, you can just type
in my name, Stephanie Center, and
I guarantee you it'll come up.
Um, I have similar conversations as, as
Julie, I, um, I like to interview people.
I, I kind of challenge because I came from
a traditional medicine world for so long.
I, I kind of interview people in
traditional and functional and kind
of challenge ideologies and beliefs
on both sides and kind of see, you
know, well, what's your approach?
Why is this your approach?
Um, and just kind of all, like, all
goodhearted and I'm not, um, The intent
is just for, to learn, for you to learn
and make your own decisions about things.
Um, and I'm also, uh, you can find me on
Instagram at Holistic Stephanie Marie.
I try to post content
there regularly and I have
so much better at it than I am.
Check out her, her Instagram is awesome.
I'm gonna age myself.
I was out of graduate school when
Instagram came out, so I feel a little
bit like, I don't know what I'm doing,
but I've figured out the highlights thing
and I have highlights where I'll go, I'll
go to Costco or Trader Joe's or you know,
name your favorite grocery store and I'll
take pictures of organic processed foods
and I'll ask you, is this healthy or not?
And you'll be surprised what, even
though it's LA u s d or organic, what is
Well, but you said processed.
Processed.
Yes.
Processed foods.
Yeah.
The, the, the produce.
I don't need to take a
picture of cuz you just know,
right.
but it's interesting what they
sneak into processed foods.
So if you're interested in like how to
navigate, like if you're going to buy
something processed, like we, we all do,
we all buy something that's processed.
Um, how to, how to support
those companies that are making
it right?
Yeah.
So, um, I would 100% pay an extra 45
cents for the non Whole Foods brand.
If they're not putting Canola
oil in their product, something,
Yeah, I wish they would just take
that out of the store, although
they'd have to clear the store.
So
have to, yeah.
do you know if you, if you, if you
go to the, the store in Austin,
if you go to their flagship
store, they don't use canola oil
because Austin won't stand for it.
I've to their flagship store.
Yeah, they don't use canola oil.
I wanna say their hop bar still had it,
Then it was one of the
other stores in Austin.
There's, I've been to one in Austin that,
and it's because the people, the locals
Good for them.
we won't buy this.
And then of course you could look
forward another store and I've never,
it was one, one store and you could get
like grilled veggies with olive oil.
You, yeah, I would, yeah.
So.
I would 100% give them my business at the
hot bar if they would swap out the canola
me too.
But they won't.
So I don't, I don't give
that would be my go-to when
I travel would be, you know,
And that, that was our thought, like
when, cuz we were going to like DC we had
all these trips and we were like, well,
we'll just go to the Whole Foods hot bar.
And then we got there and we're like,
like, where?
Where,
yeah.
I was really disappointed in that
See, we could travel together.
Steph, I'm with you.
Find that clean food.
Yes.
So anyways, those are the
places you can find me.
Um, I love interacting with people.
Um, so yeah.
Come, come say hello.
Stephanie, thank you so much.
You have shared amazing
gold with us today.
Well, thanks for having me.
I've, I've been following your work
for, for quite some time and it's
great to finally connect with you
And likewise.
I know you were busy having a baby
for a while, and so I'm glad we
finally got to sit down and do it
Yeah.
Thank you.
For everyone listening, remember, you
can get the show notes and transcripts
by visiting inspiredliving.show.
Hope you had a great time and enjoyed
this episode as much as I did.
I'll see you next week.
