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A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.
Jeremy: I feel like, in their notes
for what Constantine should sound
like, the word disaffected appeared.
And like, it's true, but not in the
way that Keanu does disaffected.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: He just sounds like, uh
huh, sure, whatever, whereas like,
the Konstantin Disaffected should
be more like, throwing the peace
sign and telling people to fuck off.
Emily: Yeah, like, isn't
he based off a sting?
This is one I would love to just
talk to as many I mean, I'd love to
talk to everybody about it, but Oh
Jeremy: Constantine?
You heard about our Lord and
Savior, John Constantine?
Ben: I've got a whole fuckin recap here.
Emily: god,
Jeremy: Oh, right.
Emily: excited.
Jeremy: Well, we're already,
we're already recording and I
already have everything up here.
So, uh, oh my God, your notes for all the
things that he's directed are hilarious.
Okay.
No, wait, those are my notes.
Emily: Those are your notes, nerd!
Jeremy: Those are my notes.
I remember now.
Okay.
Yes, yes, yes, yes,
Emily: are hilarious.
Ben: What, completely forgetting
things that you yourself did?
What are you, me in every episode
of this podcast as soon as we finish
Emily: Oh my god.
Jeremy: listen, listen, I was looking at
it and I was like, huh, Ben put a lot of
notes on here as to what, Francis Lawrence
directed and then I got to the last
line and I was like, oh, no, that's me.
Um, I did that.
All
Ben: is always makes for an entertaining
listen when you go back and actually
listen to the show, and then you're
like, oh yeah, I did say that!
And no rec recall, but
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast
where we hold horror to progressive
standards it never agreed to.
I feel like we dance around doing podcasts
about horror movies that are based on
comic books but largely have avoided it.
Well, that's not going to change
tonight because this character may
share a name with the Vertigo DC Comics
hero, but he doesn't share much else.
It's Constantine!
I am your host, Jeremy Whitley,
and with me tonight, I have a
panel of cinephiles and Cenobites.
First, they're here to challenge
the sexy werewolf, sexy vampire
binary, my co host, Ben Kahn.
Ben, how are you tonight?
Ben: Hey, so, I know they made, like,
three Captain America movies and all
that other Captain America stuff, but
was all of that put together as American?
As this man responding to a
problem by doing a mass shooting
with a cross shaped gun?
I think we hit peak America.
Jeremy: Yeah.
And the cinnamon roll of Cenobites,
our co host, Emily Martin.
How are you tonight, Emily?
Emily: afTer that comment now, I'm
feeling a little bit more validated in the
questions that I have about this movie's
depiction of demons as illegal aliens.
Ben: I mean, it feels like
something the British Invasion
writers would come up with.
As a joke about this shit, where
it's like, Oh yeah, American
Constantine, he's got a gun that's
also a crucifix, Cause fuckin America.
But then they actually did it.
Emily: And why does he wait to use
his alchemy power until the very end?
Like, why, where was that
alchemy power the whole time?
Like, he straight up did a full metal
alchemist, like, thing with his arms.
Ben: what was that?
What was he actually
trying to do with that?
Jeremy: I mean he, he made
the, he made the angel appear.
Ben: Was that his plan?
Cause the angel kinda kicked the
shit out of him, like, immediately.
Jeremy: yeah.
I mean, that's sort of Constantine's M.
O.
That is one thing they did get right.
Ben: Yes?
Jeremy: and our guest, writer,
activist, and friend of the
podcast, the amazing Jay Joseph Jr.
Jay, good to have you back.
Jay: I want to do the low,
gravelly Keanu Reeves growl.
Jeremy: Yeah,
Emily: than him in most of the movies.
Sorry, Keanu.
Jeremy: this is an accent.
Ben: No, but this is
definitely that, like,
Post Matrix, pre John Wick, lost
in the desert for 40 years where
Hollywood was so insisted on using
Keanu, but constantly forcing him
to do things he's unable to do.
Jay: actually think it's the opposite.
I think Keanu, after he lost Neo, he was
like out there just searching for another
Neo for like, Ages and ages, finally
found John
Wick.
Ben: I forget The title of the movie,
there's one movie he did in the 2000s.
It's him coaching like an inner
city Chicago baseball team.
I swear to God, this man
did Oscar Bate Mighty Ducks,
Jay: That does come
Ben: right?
It feels like something that could
possibly be true, but I promise you it is.
It's like Mighty Ducks, but what if
one of the Mighty Ducks gets shot two
thirds of the way through the movie?
aNd instead of Emilio Estevez, it's just
Keanu's blank ass face reacting to it all.
Jeremy: Whoa, he's dead, man.
Jay: betweenmy
God.
Ben: He made so many movies between Matrix
and John Wick, and I don't know if any of
Jay: kind of like,
non stop.
47 Ronin I do remember,
that wasn't very good.
Jeremy: I mean, we do have The Lake
House, which is notable at the very least.
Ben: don't even get me started on The
Lake House, the time loop movie that makes
you time travel between 2004 and 2006.
Jeremy: Yeah I believe you're
talking about Hardball.
Ben: Here's what Hollywood
eventually figured out, is that Keanu
Reeves can play someone who's relatable
through his intense world weariness,
and can sell it when he casually murders
an entire room full of special forces.
Jay: Yeah, Hardball, where
you play Connor O'Neal,
Ben: Terrible title for the SEO.
Jay: Wow, Michael P.
Jordan was in it.
Ben: OH MY GOD, WASN'T HE REAL?
WAS BABY MICHAEL P.
JORDAN IN OSCAR BAIT MIGHTY DOX?
Jay: Yeah, that's what it looks
Ben: Oh my god, amazing.
I bet you he's the adorable
kid who gets shot too.
Jeremy: I mean that's
who he is in The Wire.
Ben: Oh, where Wallace at, String?
Where Wallace at?
Emily: Parker, something's gotta give.
Jeremy: Yeah, he's
Emily: November.
Ben: Ugh,
Jeremy: the cute other love
interest in Something's Gotta
Ben: Anyway, the point is, this
movie tries at points to convince
us that Keanu Reeves and Rachel
Weisz have sexual chemistry.
And listener, they do not.
Emily: Absolutely not.
Jeremy: Rachel Weisz doesn't even
have chemistry with her own accent in
Jay: Yeah.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Like, Peter Stormare and
Tilda Swinton just fucking come
out of nowhere and are like at 11.
But the problem is, like, the
actual leads are at like a 4.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: And also Shia
LaBeouf is in this movie.
Jeremy: Yeah,
let me talk about who, who made
this movie and who is in this movie,
because I, I really had a ball with
this one, because we do have, as
we said, Peter Stormare as Satan.
Um, Keanu Reeves, Rachel
Weisz, Shia LaBeouf.
Djimon Hounsou, who makes an
entire character out of talking
low and keeping his hat on.
Gavin Rosdale, for some reason,
and Tilda Swinton just coming
in and aiming for the fences.
According to the writing credits,
it is based on the work of Jamie
Delano and Garth Ennis from comics.
Jamie Delano created Constantine.
Ben: Press
Jeremy: the storyline where
Constantine smokes himself to death.
Um,
Ben: Based?
That is legally based on the story.
Jeremy: where Constantine has cancer is
Garth Ennis's it is much less fun, this
version of Constantine having cancer
when he has it in the comics it's very
dark and then, uh, it is, the story and
screenplay is Kevin Broadbent and then
Frank Acapello did the screenplay as well.
My favorite information about this
movie is that it is directed by
the legendary Francis Lawrence, who
directed three Hunger Games movies.
Everyone but the first one.
Ben: I'm sorry, don't you
mean four Hunger Games movies?
Jeremy: Now there's five
Hunger Games movies.
Ben: Wait, did he not direct the prequel?
Jeremy: now, well,
Jay: one.
The next one that's gonna be out.
Jeremy: Yeah, he directed the new one too,
Ben: Wait, they're making
another pre Wait, they're
making a sequel to the prequel?
Jeremy: I don't
Ben: I don't know.
Jeremy: It seems to be doing
pretty well, so probably.
Jay: Well, I didn't I didn't know the
Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes was out,
Jeremy: yeah, I think it just came out
Ben: Once they delay Dune
II, I check the fuck out.
Jeremy: But the other things that Frances
Lawrence has directed, which I find much
more interesting, are music videos for
Coolio's See You When You Get There,
Ghetto Superstar, Brian McKnight's Back at
One, Destiny's Child's Independent Women
Part 1, Avril Lavigne's Sk8er Boi, and
the goat, Britney's I Am a Slave for You.
And if you didn't know, that's
I am a slave, number four,
Ben: Okay, this music video experience
makes a lot of sense because Konstantin's
apartment looks like the location of
every fucking post industrial music video.
Emily: none of those videos.
Jay: love that kind of like center frame
steadicam shot throughout the film.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: You could set any Nine Inch
Nails video in his apartment.
Emily: well, actually, by the
Jeremy: set any Bush video in his
Emily: yeah, push video.
We have a Trent watch,
y'all Trent Reznor watch.
We have a song by Perfect Circle
that was co written by Trent Reznor.
This is my new, uh,
Ben: Oh!
Perfect Circle being
in this fucking movie.
Jeremy: Is a perfect circle, and
Ben: I had that in my notes, just how
goddamn 2000 it was that they were playing
fucking Passive by a Perfect Circle.
Emily: You know who else?
What else?
What other movie had a
perfect circle in it?
Underworld?
Jay: That's right.
Yeah.
Emily: Perfect Circle was
like, was legit though.
Like, Perfect Circle, in the
world of nu metal, Perfect
Circle was a breath of fresh air.
It's funny because like, you had all
of the nu metal happening that was a
reaction or like a follow up to Tool.
And then Maynard Keenan goes off
and does Perfect Circle and it's
like, good, like, legit rock
Ben: Well, I also really like it
because it's non diegetic, so I
just like the idea of just walking
up to a fucking 2000s ass nightclub
that's just blasting Perfect Circle.
Emily: And then suddenly,
it's the club from Blade.
Like,
when he goes in, it's the perfect circle.
When he comes
out, it's the crystal method.
Like,
Ben: there's a fair amount of
this movie that it's just like,
hey, what if Blade wasn't as good?
Jeremy: it's kind of A little
bit of that, a little bit of, um,
like, there's obviously the same
influences as Underworld, and then
of course, like, there's a lot
of, like, there's a lot of
music video influence in the
way that this stuff is filmed.
My
biggest problem with this movie is that
not a lot happens for, like, the first
Jay: Yeah.
It's like, it's like I was shocked
by how much dead space there is
until like the final act when
things actually start to pick up.
What year
Jeremy: It's like they were
going for mood, but none of the
acting is good enough to make it
go for mood in that first hour.
And particularly, putting Keanu Reeves
And Shia LaBeouf next to each other.
Is an experience, because to say that Shia
LaBeouf is a maximalist actor, that he's
doing the most, that he's acting basically
on like the level of Ric Flair getting a
chop to his chest, like, he's just doing
that amount of like overacting and over
talking, and Keanu is doing nothing.
He is just he couldn't be silent for
good chunks of this movie, and it
wouldn't really read any differently.
Ben: If you love the dynamic between
Ryan Reynolds and Wesley Snipes in Blade
Trinity, you will need professional help.
Jeremy: It's like they aimed
for Blade and got Blade Trinity.
Ben: Well, I can tell you exactly
why that's what it is, because when
I finished watching Constancy on
HBO Max, the very next thing it had
on Watch Next was Blade Trinity.
Emily: Bless.
Jay: like, 2005?
Just before Constantine, I think.
Emily: yeah,
Jay: I'm trying to, to determine if like,
Constantine was the last comic book movie
where, they just did whatever the fuck
they wanted with the original material
Emily: Yeah.
Jay: and went off in it, , before
people got serious about comic book
adaptations in 2008 and all that.
Ben: It's really, yeah, it's really
this, period of comic book movies
that existed from 2000 to 2008.
Really just ended with the Iron Man
Dark Knight, like, 1 2 genre definer.
Jay: yeah,
Ben: But also, the Venom movies, and I
know it's the Venom movies because they
both have the plot point of a random
indigenous person picks up the cursed
MacGuffin and just walks their ass all
the way to the plot for most of the movie.
Jeremy: yeah,
Emily: forgotten those
movies were a thing.
Like,
Jeremy: There's so many comic book movies
from this time that are like still trying
to, they're trying to access the money
that was made by Blade and Spider Man.
Um, but they don't, they haven't
landed on the idea that they should
actually adapt the comics yet.
They're, they're still on the like,
this is an IP and I can, you know,
do whatever I want to with it.
I still think that the Marvel
Incredible Hulk movie the one
Hulk movie that's made by Marvel
is the last old comic book movie.
Jay: Right.
Yeah.
That's
Emily: yeah.
The
Ben: Are we talking are we talking Ang Lee
Jeremy: no, post Ang
Lee, we're talking the,
Jay: Yeah.
With Ed
Emily: Edward Norton.
Jeremy: Yeah.
the Edward Norton Hulk because
yeah, that's, that's in the Marvel
Universe, it's in the MCU, but
like, it doesn't acknowledge it
until after the credits, and they
still kind of do what the fuck ever.
Ang Lee's is wild, um.
I
Ben: Ang Lee, again, when we talk
about unhinged movies, Ang Lee's
Hulk very high on that list.
Emily: Yeah.
That's one of those most directed movies.
Jeremy: Well, that's one of those, like,
Ben: Extremely directed.
Jeremy: when I compare Hulk and Incredible
Hulk, there's no question in my mind
that Incredible Hulk is a better movie.
But I'm much more interested in Hulk
because they, like, really went for it.
Ben: Thousand percent.
Jeremy: was like, I'm gonna recreate
a comic book page on the TV.
You're gonna see, like, four different
things going on in panels on the screen.
And I was like, Fuckin A, Ang.
Like, go for it.
It's bad, but you went for it.
Emily: yeah.
Jeremy: the story doesn't make any sense.
I don't know where the fuck
you were going with anything.
But, like,
the
ideas are
Emily: man.
Ben: The millions of dollars that, the
hundreds of millions of dollars that
have been spent failing to achieve
the Sam Raimi Spider Man sweet spot.
Emily: well, and we gotta talk about
the, if we're gonna talk about comic
book movies, especially gritty, like,
indie comic book movies, The Crow,
Ben: Yeah, oh, this is definitely in
line with, like, it's definitely, yeah,
it's also in that vein, like, there's the
influ I feel like this movie absolutely
wears its influences on its sleeps.
You've got the crow.
It sure does love the aesthetic of
stuff like Fight Club and Seven.
Big David Fincher fan, this movie.
Emily: Big David Fincher wannabe vibes,
Jeremy: the real difference
between this and the crow is
that the crow was made for 2.
50 and this was made for a hundred
million dollars or something.
Like, the crow was made with like
the money in somebody's wallet and
they still like, , they did the most
they could with that and this they
did the least with a lot of money.
Emily: yeah,
it's interesting that you talk about
the the old new comic book movies and
that, because I'm thinking about like,
what are the comic book movies from
like the 90s that I thought were really
good, , good being a very subjective,
Ben: well you had Batman just
fucking make all the money in
89, and then that just kicked off
the like, the Pulp Hero movie craze
that was just like, a string of box
office flops, where you get like,
the batshit bonkers wonderfulness
of Dick Tracy, but then also like,
Jeremy: Now I remember when
the phantoms swopped the world.
Yeah.
Ben: yeah, Rocketeer,
Emily: The Shadow.
Ben: the Sha the Shadow, which, So, yeah.
Emily: Darkman.
Jeremy: Technically, I don't
think we should overlook Josie and
the Pussycats in this category,
though it's good.
Emily: It is good.
Ben: Like, this is an era where,
like, no, if we're talking, like,
free X Men, we're looking at, like,
Mystery Men starring Ben Stiller.
Emily: Well, The Crow and Tank Girl,
I was thinking about The Crow and
Tank Girl, but I think that the reason
that The Crow and Tank Girl are their
own kind of success is because the
comics they're based on are mostly
vibes, and then the movies, they were
like, So let's get some vibes in here.
Ben: Very, yeah, lots
Emily: yeah, yeah.
And, And, you know,
Jeremy: mean, and they're
also indie comics.
Like, you know, they're, they're
their own little weird thing.
We've continued to make those
movies in the shadow of MCU.
You've got, you know, weird
things like Road to Perdition and
Emily: history of violence.
Jeremy: yeah, that's the one I
was trying to think of, A History
of Violence, which are like,
Ben: And other movies
starring Liam Neeson.
Jeremy: and, theoretically the film Old
which is based on an indie comic book.
Emily: that's right.
Well, it's based on a
Ben: fucking no.
No, do not, get me fucking started on old.
We, we got enough to talk
about with Constantine
Emily: Yeah, I, yeah,
we should probably start
talking
Jeremy: You want to get into
Ben: Jay, what was Jay, what was
your experience with the movie?
Had you seen this before?
Jay: Yes.
I've seen this film before.
I it was actually the film that
made me popular in college.
You know, I did, um, communications
theory, which is like basically.
Breaking down how media works
and, you know, all this feminine
messaging and psychology and all that.
And, because he had run in those
circles, he had gotten all these free
tickets to the premiere of Constantine.
And, uh, he had no interest in it, so he,
he just passed it off on me and told me
to, , make an event of it and bring people
to see the movie, and so I just kind of
used the school's email list or whatever,
sent it out to everyone I have, like.
We had about a dozen people show up and
I, I invited my mom to the film as well
we had, so it was like good turnout.
And I had kind of kept my head down
in the college until that point I was
in a weird situation where first year,
I had a lot of friends and a lot of
those friends ended up, , transferring
out or just, , dropping out entirely.
And then , a couple of years of just
like nothing happening, complete boredom
and For whatever reason this movie
Constantine made me, , popular with the
people that showed up and we're talking
about for days afterwards and, , I
was talking about Tampa last semester.
And I'm watching this film now and I'm
like, I wonder what the fuck it was about
Constantine back in 2005 that made it
so people actually enjoyed this movie.
I, I don't know.
I can't tell you.
I, and, , just, I remember
the experience around it.
More that was like a party
than the actual film.
All I could really tell you
about the film was the final act.
And re watching
it,
Ben: yeah.
Jay: I realize now that's because nothing
happens until the final act of the film.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: really just a lot of
preamble till you get to Stormare.
Emily: Yeah.
Well, and there's, there's some fun
stuff, but like, everything's so disparate
Ben: It's all very It's
a very scattershot movie.
Emily: and like, this whole thing about
picking up the spirit of destiny in Mexico
and just this guy, like, coming into.
LA, I guess, and doing whatever, like,
that whole thing does not need to be in
the movie, like, there was nothing, the
Spirit of Destiny, all it did was, like,
give people Zodiac Killer fuckin glyphs
on their arm, and then, like, and then it
had to do with Mammon, like, they could
have done anything else with that, like,
I don't know, like, I feel, when did
Hellboy, Hellboy was after this, like,
Ben: Ooh, no, I feel like Hellboy ha Ooh,
Jay: That's a, that's a good question.
It was Hellboy.
Ben: fuckin ruled?
Emily: Yeah, the first Hellboy was, um,
Ben: so that was the same year.
Emily: oh wow, okay, huh,
Jay: I, gotta say, I gotta say one thing
about this, about this film Kahnstein.
Yeah, I, I know before, like, maybe
we had already started recording, or
just before we started recording it
was mentioned that this film felt very
2000s, but I actually feel like, It
has that very 90s film structure to it.
Especially in context of the kind
of, uh, I can't even like, call her
a love interest without laughing.
Uh, where like, Constance suddenly cares
about someone beyond himself because
he finds this interesting woman who he
just has like, no chemistry with at all.
And so, very by the numbers 90s, you
know, this is what's supposed to happen
in a film that came out in the 90s.
Ben: me of Blade and the relationship
with the female lead in Blade.
Emily: it was very Blade esque,
Jay: Even, even Blade had a little
bit more going for it, I think, in
terms
Ben: Oh, well, no, Blade
has a lot more going for it.
Jeremy: this was a
comedy, that would just be
his estranged
Jay: a better film
overall, without a doubt,
Ben: this is a movie
with things to discuss.
The discussion of Blade is, boy, sure
is pretty cool how Blade fuckin rules.
Emily: yeah, yeah,
Jay: Blade is easily the superior
movie, but like, I'm thinking all the
real boring thrillers that were just
all throughout the 90s, and there's
always a girl that the guy had to
save, and the guy was always like, a
heart hardened detective or whatever
Constantine's supposed to be here,
Emily: yeah, so diehard situation.
Jay: he's got the little kid sidekick,
everything that made, and so I was
wondering when this movie, when this film
started the production, and The original
screenplay was actually written in 1997
Emily: Uh huh.
Jay: and I think that starts
to make the rest of the film
make a lot more sense to me
Ben: Was David Hayter ever involved
in the writing of this movie?
Jeremy: Go
Ben: This feels like the kind of movie
that David Hayter would have done a draft
of at some point in the 90s.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah, and there's this, weirdly,
it's, I feel like this movie has the
thing that people complain about comic
book movies now having, which is they
just introduce characters that you're
supposed to care about, but they don't
tell you why you should care about them,
like Beeman and Chaz and Father Hennessy.
They don't really tell
you what their deals are.
Hennessy's, they just like, kind of
let you figure it out as you're going.
and Beeman, you're like, I guess
I'm supposed to be upset that he's
Ben: Get fucked.
Emily: I liked Beeman, like he
was charming but that's the thing
is you really need to sell that
character with the quality of the
character if you're gonna have
this bit character be memorable.
Like there's a lot of movies that
have really great bit characters but
you have to have them be memorable
and they didn't give the each these
characters enough real time to talk,
Jeremy: When he has this death
that's like, like he's the important
mentor character, like he's like
his death is has the gravitas
of like he's Constantine's Mr.
Miyagi, right?
And like, it's just not in this film.
He's, we don't know what their
relationship is other than like
he's, you know, his man in the
chair as far as we can tell.
Ben: I mean,
Jay: He really needs a drink
and then he can't get one.
Ben: I mean, that's the, that is the
one thing, like, one of the few things
they correctly adapted from Hellblazer
Comics, which is, If you're John
Constantine's friend, you will die.
Emily: Yeah I
Ben: Unless you're Chaz, where you'll
live in the comics, but you will die here.
Emily: But he was an angel.
Ben: Um, no, He was in
Emily: Post credits scene.
I know, I know.
I wanted to see, like, there's a couple
sequels that I was really interested
in happening that did not ever come
to, like, not even were suggested as
far as I know, but I would love to see
the Chaz Kramer movie about Chaz Kramer
going around and being, you know, I,
Jeremy: you that currently
Constantine 2 is in production,
Emily: oh, it is in
Jeremy: Just to put that out there.
It is it theoretically
in production right now
Emily: Okay, because I
saw,
Jeremy: Keanu Reeves
Ben: It's in pre production.
Emily: Well, if it's current Keanu
Reeves, then I'm kind of excited
because current Keanu Reeves is
like, I would love to see that.
Jeremy: Yeah, and
it is being co written by Akiva
Goldsman who Yes is responsible
for a lot of the Star Trek reboot
stuff that's going on right now So,
Emily: I also really want to see the
swole Chaz Angel, like swole fucking
Shia
Jay: The end credits,
the first stinger.
Emily: Yeah, it's like
him
being like, I'm back from
Ben: how much you want Shia
LaBeouf back in this franchise.
Emily: ShIa LaBeouf has
turned a corner for me.
Like when he started, when he
did introductions, I was like.
This motherfucker's crazy, and let's
he's like this he's like Brad Pitt
crazy at this point, and let's go.
Like, let's see what I
think that he can go crazy.
I don't know what else he's
done, I don't know if he's
done, like, problematic things.
Jay: He's, he's like, I've actually
followed because I don't know, for
the same age, I think we're pretty.
I'm gonna say we're pretty close in age.
I, I'm talking out my ass here,
but I remember watching him since
what was it called, Even Stevens,
the show on Disney Channel or
Ben: Oh, hell yeah, I remember
Jay: So, yeah uh, so I, I kept
tapped into him and, he's
definitely passionate about his art.
Often his art only
makes sense to him, but.
He sure, Kash, he sure, he sure does
seem to like what he does, and the
second something doesn't interest
him, be it a project or a genre or
whatever, he's just out of there and
switches to something else, it seems
Jeremy: I
remember those six months when he was
really into comics and just started
showing up at comic conventions
and being a douchebag to people
Emily: Oh,
Ben: Oh, or when he stole, uh, just ramp
stole a Daniel Klaus comic, and made a
movie out of it, and didn't credit him?
pay him?
Emily: didn't know all that stuff.
I just knew that he was a weirdo.
And I thought he was a delightful weirdo,
but
Ben: No,
unfortunately, look, we we, look,
we have Nicholas Holt, okay?
We got the Holtster.
Jay: Shia is actually my brother's
age, which makes a lot more sense
to me, my younger brother's age.
Emily: Yeah.
Jay: and that makes sense because my
brother was like a big fan of movie
holes, which was like one of his
first feature films, Shia LaBeouf.
Um, and all of those pretty good.
I feel like Shia, he played the sidekick
in Hollywood for a long time before before
Ben: he was Indiana
Jay: he was like the
sidekick in like iRobot
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: he's the sidekick in
the bad Indiana Jones movie.
Ben: Yep, he was Optimus Prime's
sidekick in the Transformers movies.
Emily: That's where I think that's
where he got the most stink.
Like Shia's stink really accumulated
around that film, I feel.
Jeremy: Well, I think like a lot
of that is Shia LaBeouf being the
sort of maximalist actor that he is,
like really worked well opposite a
giant CGI robot that nobody could
actually see when they were filming,
he's fine acting against that.
He's, acting at that level anyway.
So like, I think that worked in his favor.
Ben: Oh yeah, no, honestly, the
problem with those movies is less
Shia LaBeouf and more that Optimus
Prime is a face ripping psychopath.
Emily: Yeah, I mean, we're
already traumatized enough about
Optimus Prime as a culture.
Ben: I'm not even gonna say that was post
9 11 Optimus Prime, I'm just gonna say
that was Michael Bay, just like shooting
prisoners in the head, like Optimus Prime.
Jay: yeah, the, the very
Ura, Optimus Prime, Ura
Transformers,
Transformers Ura Transformers.
Ben: Transformers 3 is a scene where the
heroes are totally fucked, Decepticons
are gonna kill them all, and then Optimus
Prime swoops in from nowhere, and just
starts blasting people, and then tells
the Autobots, and I quote, Kill them all!
Jeremy: Yeah, that's further than I made
it in the Transformers films, I gotta say.
, Jay: I actually haven't seen the Semen
Transformers film after the second one
after the after the hoodlum talking
monkey robot, so it's kind of out.
Jeremy: Hmm,
Emily: the first one I was out.
Jay: Yeah, that's fair that's fair,
you didn't miss any of it in the
Emily: Yeah, the second
that Bumblebee pissed on
Ben: John
Emily: Yeah, my friend,
my
neighbor
Ben: that and you're like,
Totoro, what the fuck?
John Totoro, you were in Do
the Right Thing, John Totoro!
Emily: Yeah.
Jay: the thing about Michael Bay, like
it's always hard to call him out about
it because it's so generic, but he
always uses like these racial stereotypes
in it, and it doesn't feel like he's
coming from like a meme stirred place.
It feels like he thinks he's invited
to the cookout, but he's not.
, he thinks he's down, but he's not.
Ben: Yeah.
I feel like there's less racial
animus in his heart, and more that
his entire identity is just based
on movies and shows and comedians
that did racist stereotype jokes,
and so it's the only language he knows.
Jay: Michael Bay is kind of like
everyone else for talking about
Keanu Reeves and Shia LaBeouf, where
despite all their problems, it's
difficult for me to dislike them.
Ben: Oh, absolutely, because that's the
thing, Michael Bay, not a bad filmmaker.
Cause yeah, he'll throw you, like, a
fucking Transformers the last night,
but then you'll also get, like,
a Pain and Gain, or an ambulance.
Jay: Pain and gain, I admit it,
I bet I liked pain and gain more
than I probably should have.
Ben: Yeah, it's a good movie!
Jeremy: Heen and Gain is one of
those movies that I was like,
I don't know if Michael Bay
knows that this movie is funny.
Like, that he knows that these
people are horrible, and that
he knows that it's funny, which
somehow makes it even funnier?
I don't know how that works.
But I, I, the racist stereotype
stuff, I wonder if like, He
made his bank on bad boys.
Then he was like, well, I'm
just going to keep doing that.
But without Martin Lawrence,
Jay: Well that's what I think he's
doing, yeah, that's exactly it,
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: it was fine when I did it
with Martin is why isn't it fine now?
Emily: Yeah.
I thought I was allowed to say this.
I thought I was cool.
Ben: so, Constantine, should I,
we do, should we dive into, uh,
what this movie's actually about?
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: Or I imagine this will be brief.
Ben: I'll definitely be quick.
I will say though I am going to
skip ahead towards the end of the
podcast because I do feel, towards
my recommendation, because I do feel
this is a bit of an important one.
Uh, my recommendation, honestly, truly,
is please read Hellblazer comics.
Specifically Jamie Delano's
run or Garth Ennis run.
buT hell, just pick up
some classic Hellblazer.
, I certainly read a lot of Peter
Milligan's run when that was going on.
And you know,, there's been a lot of,
some, uh, cool recent comics with him,
and Justice League Dark, but , nothing
really beats that OG Hellblazer.
So, that is my recommendation, is
Hellblazer, which, when it was at
its best, which was quite often
back in the day it was a horror
comic like absolutely none other.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Oh, right,
Emily: And he's based on Sting,
Ben: and he's
based on Sting.
Except in this movie where he's
based on Keanu Reeves, which
is why they cast Keanu Reeves.
Emily: Right.
Ben: Anyway, our movie
begins with the Warner Bros.
logo just dissolving into
hell, which feels a little on
the nose for 2023, but okay.
As we said, we got good ol
Jesus Spears as our MacGuffin.
We got a guy in Mexico who's just
finding The Spirit of Destiny,
an unexplained Nazi flag.
And, you know, he gets hit by a car,
but it's okay, he turned into CGI, and
when you're CGI, you can block cars.
meanwhile in L.
A., we're walking, we're opening
on an exorcist, and, fuckin if
you've seen any movie exorcists,
yeah, you've seen this one, we're
like, straight into the crab walkin
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: Next, we got a six foot tall
alcoholic baby who can't exorcise demons,
so he calls in American John Constantine.
if you watched our episode on Evil,
you know how much I love this movie
opening with a pre with a Catholic
priest just being like, Fuck, I suck
at my job, you do it, secular person!
Emily: but I think it's important to
mention that this is Pruitt Taylor Vince,
who is a character actor in like a billion
movies, including I think he was in a
couple of the movies that we just watched.
aNd he was also in Jacob's Ladder.
Ben: He's very character accurate.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: Uh, Keanu's here to smoke
cigarettes and not do an accent
and be an edgy 2000's anti hero
because he calls the demon asshole.
Jeremy: I love that he doesn't have to do
an accent in this movie, because Rachel
Weisz is doing an accent in this movie.
Like,
Ben: oh.
Look, Rachel Weisz is doing
an American accent in this
movie and it's That's not good.
Jeremy: like I said about Kiana's
last time, it's a rolling stone.
It doesn't stay in one
place for very long,
Ben: Oh man.
But anyway, Constantine is
able to exorcise the demon
into a mirror by calling it a
prick and giving it the finger.
Jeremy: you know.
Emily: His
Ben: I cannot emphasize how much
of this movie feels like it was
written by a 15 year old boy.
There's also this delightful scene where
he puts a cigarette on the dresser and
he's just like, Oh, my cigarette went out.
And it's like, you can relight that bro.
Why are you sad?
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: I feel like his goal
is to exorcise the demon quick
enough that he can get back to
his cigarette before it burns out.
And he doesn't, because the demon
is complicated, and They don't
really tell you this in the scene.
It's difficult for you to pick that
up, except for that he will then say
it in every other scene after this.
This, that this exorcism was wrong
and complicated, which they could
have saved the trouble of him doing
in every other scene if they just
made it somehow clear in this scene.
Ben: Yup.
But they didn't, so, this
movie likes info dumps.
Which brings us to Rachel Weisz, who's
playing Detective Angela, who while the
movie doesn't really explore this, she is
introduced as just having the supernatural
ability to always kill somebody on duty.
Jay: Oh wow, I didn't even notice that.
Ben: Oh yeah,
they figured, oh yeah, that's how she's
introduced, just always knowing where to
go to kill the people that need killing.
Jeremy: kind of, like, come back
to it eventually in the later
stuff when she's, like, confessing
about her sister is that, like,
she can also sense demons, and so somehow,
as a cop, that means that she always gets
the cases in which demons are involved,
and she has to end up shooting somebody,
Jay: She is LAPD, so.
Ben: Yeah, yeah, and also, the best
part is, uh, the priest tells her
that God wants her to kill people?
It's part of God's plan that she be
a cop who kills all these people?
So, anyway, An Angela!
We're not gonna dive
into that at all anymore,
but uh, yeah,
Jeremy: post 9 11.
Ben: Also not great is
her twin sister, Isabel.
Who Jumps off the hospital roof because,
uh, the devil's son is trying to, uh,
possess her, and it's real dark and
moody because we zoom right in on her
eye flowing up in the pool because we're
oh so edgy because it's the mid 2000s.
Emily: Yeah.
A lot of , death mask fetishization
of these characters, like, this
dead woman in a pool all pallid and
Ben: very 19th century, some
of the death worship going on.
Emily: Yeah, well, I
mean, it's very 2000s.
It's very, like, post 90s, like, edge.
Ben: 2000s and late and late
1800s kind of sucked for the
same a lot of the same reasons.
Uh, people got fucked up, way too
moody, and we fucked around in
continents we shouldn't have been in.
Emily: I mean, the moody
part was pretty cool.
Like, all of the literature, the moody
Ben: Look, Lord Byron would've fucking
loved MCR, nobody's doubting that.
Emily: Oh, yeah, I know.
He would have been in MCR.
Ben: Meanwhile, Constantine
has cancer because we're doing
Deadly Habits but not as good.
Read Deadly Habits.
Emily: Hmm.
Ben: this fucking oncologist, A.
L.
Clark is like, the worst fucking
oncologist that Constantine has.
20 years ago you wanted to die, now
you're dying and wanting to live.
How ironic.
The fuck kind of bedside manner is that?
Emily: Well, there's a rudeness
to Constantine, and so I
think that that rudeness,
like, , begets rudeness about him.
You know, people don't want
to put up with his shit.
Ben: I feel like they're going for that
kind of like, again, to use another
2000s anti hero, they're going for Dr.
House,
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: but Keanu can't do Dr.
House.
There's times in this movie
where they, the script calls for
Keanu to do witty banter, Keanu
doesn't do witty banter, y'all.
Emily: Well, he did witty banter in
the end, like, when he started acting
in the action parts, he was doing
some pretty good deadpan witty banter.
Like, I thought it was fine and
then, but before, like, all his
line reads in the first, like, 3
acts of the film were so, like, they
were almost, they were so wooden.
It was almost like meta, like, I felt like
there was some sort of greater purpose.
For his, his wooden wineries.
So yeah, he's dying of cancer.
Ben: and now we get the next two,
two new characters we get Post
Industrial Supernatural Q, because
this is also a cult, James Bond,
who's gonna give him all his new
demon busting gadgets.
Jay: I was wondering, why
did Konstantin have a Q?
See,
Ben: why are you Constantine?
Because it's a fucking James Bond movie.
Because it's American James,
because American Constantine
is also Magic James Bond,
Emily: Yeah, because he's a spy.
Ben: Look, we're, but James Bond shoots
a lot of people, and we're really able to
wrap our heads around that as an audience.
Jay: more of that, like, 90s
ness I was feeling from it.
I'm pretty sure it was a few years before.
Uh, no, it was the same, I'm
sorry, it was like the same year as
Casino Royale, so James Bond hadn't
really changed its own formula yet.
Emily: yeah,
Ben: Oh,
Jay: Everyone was like,
a replacement James Bond.
Emily: yeah,
Ben: Oh, let's not forget the movie
Triple X, that had a fucking spy in
a suit get murdered in a Ramstein
concert, as their way of being like,
This ain't your daddy's spy movie!
James Bond's 20th century!
Ramstein and Vin Diesel is
the spy of the 21st century!
Emily: I didn't remember Rammstein
being in that, but that's so 2000.
Ben: scene, they kill off a James Bond
or Stats in a fucking ramp scene concept.
Emily: like, oh, I can't
find shaking cocktails here.
Ben: Honestly, that's literally it.
And then they're like, All our
spies wear tuxedos, they suck!
We need someone cool with tattoos
who does extreme sports to be a spy.
You up to save America, Vin Diesel?
Jeremy: I'm sorry, Xander Cage.
Um,
Ben: Cage?
Holy fuck.
Jeremy: the man's name is Xander Cage.
Ben: Shut the
fuck up!
Jay: it could've
Ben: forgot it was Xander Cage!
Jay: It could've been worse, it
could've been X versus Sever.
Emily: Oh.
Ben: Oh, but now we get the character
who I will never, ever forget.
The gloriousness that is
Tilda Swinton as Gabriel.
Jay: Her audition for the ancient one.
Ben: Uh, just gender
personified.
Emily: Gabriel.
God.
So who do you think did it better, though?
Her or Christopher Walken?
Jeremy: God.
Jay: that's a good question.
Ben: I
Emily: They're very
different Gabriels, though.
Ben: Who made me feel intense
feelings of gender euphoria?
Definitely Tilda.
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah, she had,
Jeremy: The outfit that she
wears in the final scene,
Ben: oh, with them fucking
cowboy pants or whatever,
Emily: Her weird, like, asylum drip?
With, like, all the fuckin like,
Jeremy: her hands are out
like a boxer for some reason.
Emily: then she had bracelets, like,
fuckin hospital bracelets, like
a, like a whole set of hospital
bracelet bangles, what the fuck?
Ben: again, if the whole movie had been
at the level that Tilda and Stormare were
at, it would have been a fucking classic.
Emily: Yeah.
Jay: I, I don't think there's
like any doubting the talent
that they had in the movie.
Like, like they got some, , even
Ben: Really, look, but Keanu, yeah, that's
the thing, Keanu and Rachel Weisz are
great talents, but they weren't good.
Jay: right.
Like, like, , Keanu is so, like,
if you put Keanu in the exact
right thing, then he's fantastic.
, um, you put him in, in John Wick,
you put him in Matrix, you put
him in Bill and Ted, and you know,
there's no deny that he kills it.
I don't know.
I just don't know what it is.
I think it's because he's one of
those actors that was very popular
in like the 90s and early 2000s where
they just kind of play themselves.
You had Keanu, you had Denzel Washington
Ben: Are you saying Denzel isn't
the equalizer in real life?
Emily: No!
Jeremy: I mean, I
Jay: work,
Jeremy: like, this movie, the way
Jay: all the actors, like, you
know, they show up and they just
come to work and they just play
themselves, that's who they are.
You know, that's just, barely any
change, so, so the project really has
to kind of fit them, rather than them.
Reshaping the fits of projects.
Ben: Look,
you know
Jeremy: Smith did it
for 20 years, so, you
Ben: there's, you know, you hear about
like, Will Smith has his own writers, like
Ryan Reynolds has his own writers, and
whatever project they sign on to, like,
his writers will go in and they'll like,
rewrite the dialogue to make sure it's
like, proper Ryan Reynolds y dialogue.
Jay: exactly.
Ben: I feel like Keanu probably has that,
but instead of rewriting, he just has
a guy that's just, like, crossing out,
like, two thirds of all of the lines.
Jeremy: Well, like, I feel like, and it's
really apt that you were talking about
the prophecy, because I feel like this
movie is a lot like that in a lot of
ways, and that, you know, you have these
two characters that are playing angels
and demons that are playing them at a
different level than the rest of the movie
is happening, and the rest of the movie
has a real protagonist problem of this
character, but like, oh yeah, but why?
Why do we care?
Especially Rachel Weisz.
Unfortunately, like, Constantine,
as a character in, like, comics,
does not have this issue.
But the version of it Keanu puts up
on the screen, it very much does.
Because, like, he delivers so much
of this dialogue that should make you
say, that should make you laugh while
going, John Constantine, you dick.
It just makes you go, what the
fuck's wrong with this guy?
He's
just
mean for no
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Like,
Jeremy: just
mean.
Ben: this is not a
charismatic John Constantine.
Jeremy: He's wild, because
Keanu's so charismatic.
Ben: where
learn Keanu's motivation is to
do good things so his soul can
be saved and he can go to heaven.
But it also doesn't work because
Tilda Swinton Gabriel also then
immediately tells him, Hey, what you're
doing hasn't worked and won't work,
and his response is, I will change
nothing about my actions or behavior.
So, you're right, like, so we're
given like a reason for why he
does what he does, but also no
reason to think he'll succeed?
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: but I will say, it does Just tell,
it, this scene does involve Tildes, an
incredibly androgynous Tildeswinton, just
bending over, just like, leaning over
someone, and whispering, You're fucked.
Which, I'm not gonna lie, unlocked a
lot of things when I watched this at 15.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: yeah, I could listen to Tildeswinton
tell me I'm fucked all day long.
Um,
anyway baby priest man character
actor has psychic powers that let
him read newspapers and determine
which ones are plot important.
Sure.
Emily: he's, uh, surfing
the web, you know?
This is why we need to be careful of AI.
I
Ben: Angela's getting prank calls from
demons, while Constantine is just chugging
drugs at a gas station and looking at
really blatant Chevy product placement.
Y'all clocked that Chevy
Emily: Yeah, this, this movie's brought
to you by Chevy, Apple, Quiznos.
wE've got a big Quiznos in the background.
Ben: Oh, yeah, oh, God bless, hey,
that's the, uh, the grease that
keeps the Hollywood wheels turning.
But anyway, his good times of dying from
cancer are interrupted when he's attacked
by a demon made of crabs and plugs.
But John defeats the swarm by
cleverly letting it get hit by a van.
Emily: Well, he,
Jay: That creature that is a soft,
that's just something that they came up
with for the film, based on anything?
Ben: They might have just,
like, grabbed, like, the name of
something from, like, one issue.
But whatever it was, it wasn't
just like, Yeah, I'm here to just
fuck you up in a gas station!
You ready?
I'm ready to throw hands, John
Constantine!
Jay: You know, I actually had to rewind
that scene because I was so confused.
I'm like, okay, so we see him
swarmed by insects, but at first I'm
like, what is that, what is that?
A crab?
I'm like, yeah, that's a crab.
That's on top of him.
Emily: yeah,
Ben: it is, is that wE needed way
more scenes of him either doing
cool action supernatural James
Bond stuff, if that's the direction
you're going, or more him doing
clever John Constantine trick a roos.
Because what we actually get for
the most part is A really stock
exorcism scene in the beginning, and
then really no major action until,
the very end with the cross gun.
Jay: You know what?
more I think about the music video
history of this director, the more
the movie kind of makes sense to me
because I can't see it as an overall
film, but I can see it as a series
of music videos strung together.
Emily: Yes, I mean, it is very much
that way, especially like the sort
of Avanessency, hell, stuff that
Jay: Yeah.
Jeremy: lot of people
getting wet in their clothes.
Emily: God,
Ben: it's not a plot that has a
lot of natural forward momentum.
It's a lot of characters being
like, and now I'll do this
thing, or go to this place.
Like, if this movie showed phone calls,
it would show the hello and the goodbye.
Emily: yeah, yeah, not a lot
of cutscene in this movie.
Ben: But yeah, like, so what should
be either, a cool fight scene or a
trickery do, just ends up being like,
Oh good, the bugs got hit by a car.
Jeremy: Demon's only weakness, a car.
Emily: Well, there was also the
screaming beetle, the Amityville beetle,
which If it sounds like
nails on a chalkboard to you,
that means you're a demon.
So I guess I'm a demon too.
That's the deal.
Ben: So, after that we got
Shia, Shia LaBeouf, he info
dumps all about Papa Midnight,
Jeremy: He's back.
He pops up
every half an hour in this movie.
Ben: yeah.
Emily: he does.
Jeremy: clockwork.
Ben: info dump might make you think that
Papa Midnight is important in this movie.
Spoilers!
He's not.
Jeremy: He is the
character from the comics.
Ben: He is played by Djimon Hounsou,
which is perfect fucking casting.
But I do enjoy when the badger goes,
No, Shia, you're not magic enough.
So he doesn't get to be
in the rest of the scene.
it is in hindsight, him walking through
this bar does just feel like, Oh, this
is a precursor to like, all of the
John Wick walking through a cool bar.
While,
better,
Jeremy: scene is incredibly
Underworld to me.
Emily: Oh, oh my god.
Ben: And this is where we've got a
perfect circle playin You know,
if you want to know when to
start hitting that, listeners,
Emily: Yeah.
that's the Trent warning right there,
Ben: we also get the foreshadowing
that, oh, he's constantly dying,
and he's the one soul the devil
himself will come up to collect,
Emily: Yeah.
Jay: Yeah, I want to mention
something about Constantine dying.
I think with the lung cancer, I know
it's based on a storyline, right?
The moments where, where John has
these sudden fits with his lung
cancer and just really over the
top and on display and then always
waiting to get back to the cigarette.
I couldn't help but think how big
the truth campaigns were back then.
And it's just when people had gotten
like, yeah, Big tobacco out of Hollywood
and all that stuff, It almost felt like
that was some of the film trying to
moralize against all this other background
of like angels and demons and all that
stuff that's the big morality lesson.
Don't smoke kids
Ben: I mean, 100%, and so much of that you
can see in one of the big differences in
the ending to the story is, spoilers for
the end of our recap, John Constantine
gets cured of his cancer by doing a
selfless thing and saving his soul.
And to show that he's learned to
value his life, he quits smoking.
Whereas in the comics, he very
intentionally tricked a bunch
of demons and fucked everybody
over to get his cancer cured.
And then his response was to flip
everybody off and just go right
back to smoking a pack an hour.
Jay: I guess it's ruining the small
little twist there, but Being cured of
his cancer is meant to be a punishment
Emily: Yeah.
Because he didn't get to go to heaven.
The devil was like, no,
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
Jeremy: He died after doing a truly
selfless act, and Lucifer was like, Now,
if I cure you of your cancer and leave
you down here, you'll fuck up soon enough.
Like,
Ben: Well, I mean, You know, we've
got all this great stuff that left in
the movie of like absolute random shit
that goes fucking nowhere like the guy
from Bush sticking his fingers in his
mouth and going finger licking good.
Jeremy: He delivers that so badly, too.
Emily: It's so like, I
don't know if it's bad.
I think it's great.
I think it's perfect.
Jeremy: Finger lookin good.
He sticks like three
fingers in his mouth when he
does it, like, He
doesn't lick his fingers, he doesn't do
anything, he sticks them in his mouth.
It's like, what the fuck, Gavin Rosdale?
Ben: it wasn't like a sensual lick.
It wasn't Graceful, it was just like
I can stick my whole hand in my mouth
Jeremy: A truly British man who has never
learned to savor food, obviously, does not
understand the concept of finger licking.
Like, he's just like, Ugh!
Ugh!
Stick
Emily: is what
this
is, right?
This
is, what happens when you lick fingers,
Jeremy: Boiled
Ben: got, you got Keanu Reeves blowing
cigarette smoke at an actual spider.
Emily: Yeah, that's fucking rude.
That's seriously rude.
Ben: I mean, we got him doing a classic
refusal of the call, all sorts of stuff.
Oh man, I do love how we got the classic
like, No, I will not help you, immediately
gets Hellvisions, I will help you.
Emily: actually, wait, whoa,
whoa, hold on, hold on, wait.
Hell is real.
Demons are here and, uh,
Ben: Yeah, demons are real,
they deal with some shit.
Also, cats half exist in hell,
apparently, just a thing the movie
just declares, does nothing to
explain, or do anything with, just,
Yup, cats are hellbeasts, move along.
Emily: But they're good,
because they're good, because
he says they're good, because
Jay: Yeah.
He said they, he says it's a good thing
because they're like half in, half out.
I think as a play on the supers session,
that Kat can see the spiritual realm and
similar,
Ben: I liked it better when
they did this shit in the mummy.
Jay: Yeah.
Emily: I liked it too,
Ben: we get to see hell, and
it is apparently an average day
in LA in a July in the 2020s.
Emily: Yep, absolutely.
I was like, it's just LA.
Ben: and, average amount of fire for an L.
A.
summer.
Emily: at the beginning of the movie.
I was, you know, we started
in Mexico because the movie
is like, we're in Mexico now.
And not only do we need to tell you you're
in Mexico, but we're also in a dilapidated
church, which a bunch of people like
rooting through bottles and shit.
And then a car drives by with,
Oh, what's that on the screen?
What is that?
That the subtitles tell me Mexican music.
And so, you know, they might as well
have everybody in sombreros and maracas.
But the important thing here that
I'm getting to is the yellow filter.
Cause then they go back wherever
Constantine shows up in the, like the
ring scene that we see also yellow filter.
And so I'm like, where are we now?
Are we still in Mexico?
Why do we have a yellow filter?
And I'm like, Oh, it's LA.
Okay.
All right.
Ben: Yep.
Jeremy: Hell, eh?
Ha ha
Ben: Honestly, probably
the actual best scene nope,
Emily: Bye.
Ben: one of the best scenes of the
movie where Baby Man Priest, with
newspaper powers, tries to do a
newspaper power on Isabelle's corpse,
but instead he gets cursed into thinking
he can't drink any liquids while he's
actually drowning himself in liquor.
And this scene really fucking stands
out, because unlike pretty much
everything else in the whole movie,
this actually feels like something that
would happen in a Hellblazer comic.
Jeremy: Also, this
Ben: Something very This
does happen in a Hellblazer comic.
This is the one thing.
Oh, he does a great job.
This is a very, like,
chilling, mortifying scene.
I This is actually well done.
This is real Hellblazer shit
right here, and it's kind of the
only time in the whole movie.
Emily: And he's a great actor, too.
Like, whenever I see him in movies, I'm
always, like, really stoked, because I
know, he is typecast to be a weirdo every
single time, but he's such a good actor.
Jeremy: I missed talking about it
when it happened, but like, there's
this bit the first time that, that
Detective Rachel Weisz goes to like,
visit Constantine at his house, and
Constantine is like, fuck you, I'm not
taking appointments, and then sees like,
a bunch of shadows fly by his window.
That he, like, goes out to help her,
and all the lights go out, and they
go across the street to the, , random
church that's sitting out there.
And, inexplicably, Constantine,
like, lights something on fire,
and it scares away all the demons.
Which, like, when it happened
in the movie, I was like,
what the fuck just happened?
And apparently, everybody else felt the
same way, because the answer is They cut
the explanation for what happened because
the thing he lights on fire is one of
the things that Beeman gives him at the
beginning, which is part of Moses's shroud
which is why it scares all the demons
away, but we don't know that because they
cut the line where he says what it is.
So like, I feel like that's
just really, it really captures
the essence of this movie.
That like, this thing happens, and
you don't know why, because they
didn't feel like the explanation was
important enough to keep in the movie.
Ben: yep,
Emily: yet we get a whole scene of
Shia LaBeouf talking about how cool
Ben: Papa Midnight is, we get another info
dump, where he comes and tells his whole
fucking backstory over midnight pancakes.
Jay: Wait.
So, wait, wait, hold on.
Before, sorry about that.
Just before we jump away from Jeremy's
point was it a church or was it a
botanica that they were in front of?
Emily: I think it was a botanica
because it was like all the demons
were affecting everything but that so
they had to like get close to it that
at least made a little bit of sense
but like
he just where
Ben: just like a pawn shop
that had a lot of Jesus stuff.
Jeremy: It had a big Virgin Mary
in the window, which I think is
like, the essentially important bit.
So you can't
Jay: Yeah.
Jeremy: her,
Jay: I think, I think what they're trying
to do, the reason I ask is I think what
they're trying to do, albeit like doing a
bad job of it, is just representing these
different faiths that make up Los Angeles.
cAuse you have like, you have
the botanica, and then you
have, , Midnight's Club, and then,
who's this computing practitioner.
And I think the problem is
like, everything in this
film
Ben: the Newsome Stans,
you got the Clippers fans.
Jeremy: What I will say is that, uh,
this movie, I think, does a better job
of voodoo by really not engaging than
the last two movies we've talked about,
which, uh, you know, Angel Heart and
Emily: devil's
Jeremy: Devil's Advocate, which are
both like, voodoo, that's devil worship.
Like,
Ben: casting J'mon Hanzo
instead of Delroy Lindo!
Emily: yeah
Ben: I still can't get over fucking
Devil's Advocate just fucking
having Delroy Lindo in there
as if we're not gonna notice.
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: for 30 seconds, crouch
in the basement, killing a goat.
Like,
Emily: he wasn't there for 37, like, he
had several speaking lines in that movie.
He was like an important character.
He's one of the more, like,
that's the thing about, like, Papa
Jeremy: was an important character in
the episode of that movie that he was
in,
Emily: yes.
yes, he was, but, you know, that's, that
movie is several episodes long, but like.
That's the thing is that his character
was memorable, although I think for
a lot of people think that that's a
different movie that they're watching.
They may think that they were
watching Constantine and they were
actually watching The Devil's Advocate
because of that scene, because
it was so different than every
other fucking thing in the movie.
But yeah this
Ben: That would have been something else.
It's like, not only do we doing
American Constantine, we're
doing Southern Constantine.
Emily: that could be cool,
but we can, we don't have
to call it Constantine.
We call it like Jim.
Franken jam or whatever.
Ben: Jim!
Okay, no.
We're doing
Emily: don't
Ben: Jam.
You said it.
We're going with the first
thing out of your mouth.
Jim Frankin Jam, Southern
Magician Trickster.
Emily: It has
Jeremy: still played by Konstantin,
or Still
Ben: played
by
Keanu.
Jim Frankin Jam.
Emily: Thanks.
Ben: Get me a design.
Emily: That's my, uh, That's,
that's the next sequel.
Is Jim Franken jam.
Ben: Aw.
Emily: That's what Chaz
Kramer changes his name to,
Ben: Jackie O'Lantern,
Halloween detective.
Emily: that's so good.
Yeah,
Ben: But no, Keanu info dumps to us
that there's angels and demons and
heaven and hell, but they got a truce.
So, there's half angels and half devils,
and it was fuckin smarmy cunt Gavin
Rossdale who killed Keanu's priest friend.
And then, also, the liquor
store employee is an angel?
It's real, what the fuck,
and it goes nowhere.
Emily: yeah, like that was a very
Jacob's Letter moment where they're
like, Oh, frightened to die and hold on.
that's where I was like,
Is that a metaphor?
Like, anybody who does good is
like half angel or something?
And then that was not Clear at
all, because like, the half breeds,
whatever, which I hate are also, like,
supposed to be special, you know,
like, they're sort of in disguise,
but then like, Gabriel, the fucking
Archangel Gabriel, is a half breed?
Ben: Like,
this, again, the lore of this movie is
Emily: They're playing very fast and loose
Ben: They're playing real fast and loose.
So anyway, after like 30 minutes or
whatever of fucking boring investigating
and books of hell and Windows shit
Emily: So Good.
That's very,
Ben: Windows player, A big part,
a big part of this movie hinges on
nobody wiping down the windows for
several days.
Uh, we get Supernatural Q tells us our
big bad is Mammon, the son of the devil,
who's here to do evil demon stuff.
And then he gets murdered by flies,
because even the one thing American
John Constantine can get right is
to get all of his friends killed.
Emily: Well, didn't you think it was
fucked up that, like, at first it was
a fly, but then it was bees, and I'm
like, his name is, it's like, sounds like
some sort of demon joke where the demons
are like, ha ha, your name's Bee Man.
Guess how you're gonna go.
Ben: Yes, but I was hoping, I was hoping
he'd just be like, oh no, crabs again!
Emily: Yeah, if it was Krabs,
that would be interesting, at
Ben: It's like, a swarm of bugs and
always like, two or three crabs!
Emily: Yeah, like, I, I, the fact
that he was covered in bees, it just
felt like, Like, everybody in his,
uh, elementary school probably were
like, Bee man, bee man, and then
maybe he, like, tried to own it,
and then now
Ben: that like,
Emily: covered in bees.
Ben: I would love it if John
Wick 5 is just like, John in hell
fighting his way through just like,
Emily: John Wick Drive Angry?
Ben: Yeah, just like John Wick
just fighting his way through hell.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: but anyway, Uh, Rachel Weisz
decides that she wants to see hell,
which is really just the movie's
excuse to put her in a bathtub, And,
uh, I know it's just a fucking excuse
to get her wet, because Keanu just
had to like, Fuckin stand in a puddle
while Rachel Weisz has to get fuckin
drowned in this bathtub for minutes.
Emily: Yeah, and then he also,
like, eye fucks her for a while,
which
is
not
Ben: but it works!
She gets to see hell and we get
to see Rachel Weisz in a wet bra.
Everyone wins.
Also, she has magical detective
clue finding powers because
she goes back to where Q died.
And immediately finds Ro Gavin Rossdale's,
uh, I call it, magical demon coin.
Emily: Yeah, and she can automatically,
like, do the cool thing with it with CGI.
Ben: got the Batman detective vision,
where she's just like, shew, and then
it's like, Oh, I found the glowing item.
So
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
Ben: Anyway, now things get real
2000s, and very not on comics.
Because Sean Constantine builds
a magical cross shaped gun.
Oh yeah, Angela also got
Emily: yeah, she, yeah, she was like,
super yeeted through several buildings.
Ben: Angela got yeeted.
Jeremy: She
took off the cool necklace and then
got, uh, used an elevator very wrong.
She
Emily: Yeah,
elevator sideways.
Jeremy: work.
She got in an elevator while it
was still closed and went sideways.
Ben: uh, so we gotta use
cross guns to save her.
So Constantine goes to visit Kevin
Rossdale, does a big punchy, and
threatens him with Christianity until
Balthazar reveals the MacGuffin, which
doesn't affect anything in the plot.
Emily: So true, bestie.
Ben: So, Constantine does what this
character's always been known for,
shooting guns wildly without a plan
until people give him what he wants.
Emily: Yeah, and then like, apparently
Manuel, the holder of the Spear of
Destiny, is, like, has amassed an army.
of possessed people that like,
Ben: Look, I'm not gonna lie, I kinda
lost the plot around here, but Papa
Midnight and John Constantine do some kink
play, and Keanu gets MacGuffin vision.
Jeremy: I think that Gabriel is supposed
to be possessing those people, and
I think they're supposed to be the
rest of the people from the mental
institution, which is why she has all
of their bands all over her arms when we
see her.
I think.
Uh, nobody says that at
any point in the film.
Um, or actually, no, hold on.
They do also say that a lot of those
people are just all the half blood
demons that are running around and, uh,
Ben: Yeah, that's why the
holy sprinkler water works on
Jeremy: yeah, they, that's right, they do.
I don't know what happened to all
those mental institution folks
that Gabriel stole
Ben: almost, this movie almost did Dark
Souls level storytelling through character
design, but, What if it was dumb instead?
Jeremy: and I don't know, like, the
idea of holy water I feel like loses
some of its oomph when fuckin Chaz
can just bless water, like, just
Emily: Well, he puts like a, he put a
sacred artifact in the water and then
like just
Jeremy: yeah, I guess he
did put the super cross.
He put one of the crosses you
throw in Castlevania in it.
Ben: Yeah.
Yeah.
He put the yeah that was it was it
was the cross did all of the work
Jay: Well, this is a big redeeming moment
after being the sidekick, you know, he's
the one that comes up with the brilliant
plan to stop all the demons, stop the
Ben: Well Papa Midnight is like you
should bring him with you John like
he's ready And I'd like to think
Papa Midnight knew like no he's not.
It's gonna be
Emily: him out of here.
Ben: though
Jeremy: he just, and the wild thing to me
is John gets the big crazy holy shotgun
and they just give him a normal shotgun.
You'll be fine.
You'll be fine.
It's all right.
Ben: so the big like Holy,
like, cross gun fight scene.
I remember this, watching this as a
teenager, thinking this was really cool.
But the problem is, I hadn't seen Blade
yet, and John Wick didn't exist yet.
And I've now seen Blade,
and John Wick exists.
And with both of, and with both of
those in mind, I gotta say, this scene
actually feels really weak next to those.
Emily: Well, yeah, I mean, , you
gotta learn, you gotta
walk before you run, right?
Jeremy: He doesn't
fight
a thousand demons going up the
stairs to Mount Marth, which is
what he did in John Wick 4, so.
Ben: Yeah, like, it's like, I just kept
wishing for, like, it doesn't have that
fun kineticism of the Blade blood rave.
And I just kept wishing for, like, it to
be crazy ass John Wick fight choreography.
It feels
Emily: Yeah.
And it wasn't.
Jay: that scene was missing a lot.
It was just there to shoot
down a lot of people.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: like an executive was like, he
should have a gun that's also magic.
And then they were like, Well,
I guess we have to write a
scene where he uses a magic gun.
Emily: There's, like, I'm kind of starting
to get some Minecraft vibes here, because,
like, he crafted the gun, they crafted
the water the, like, holy water, right?
And also, cats can see, can,
like, defend against creepers.
I feel that that's, that's all that
is my observation and so thank you
for coming to my TED talk.
Thank
you.
Jeremy: real text text based,
like, adventure feeling, too, that
it's like, use cross on water.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: Did not use cross on water.
He's okay.
Use shotgun on barrel.
Use cross on water.
Got it.
Okay.
Did it.
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ben: No big deal.
It's a little win, but we don't
have time to celebrate this little
win, because we have to celebrate
the big win of Shia LaBeouf getting
smashed into everything and dying.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Gabriel, Gabriel murders him
without actually showing up.
Gabriel murders him while
Jay: yeah, yeah,
Jeremy: Gabriel doesn't even,
doesn't even care enough about
Chaz to like deliver a one liner.
She just, just cold murders
Ben: pretty great.
And then, you know, Keanu does his
summoning circle tattoos on his hands,
it looks really cool, I have no idea
what he was trying to accomplish.
Jeremy: I think it makes Gabriel appear.
Cause he's, he's like, you got to
Jay: that's
like, the problem is they don't
establish rules for any of this stuff.
Ben: no.
Jay: it's,
Ben: Gabriel's Gabriel's here, he's
wearing that incredible outfit that is so
much gender, also there's some feet stuff.
So if you like feet stuff, this means
you got some of that going on for ya.
Emily: Oh, this movie has a lot
of good celebrity feed pics.
Ben: yeah.
Jeremy: really, they really pull in close
on Tilda Smitten's feet in this scene.
It's,
it's, it's Quentin
Ben: but like,
Jeremy: levels of, of,
Ben: Not just her feet,
Her feet on Keanu's face.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: But anyway, turns out Gabriel,
Real real cray cray cause he thinks
that if he lets hell invade earth,
Then that trauma will make everyone
good enough to get into heaven.
Jay: it's.
Gabriel doesn't think humankind
deserves God's love and that anyone who
actually survives the demon slaughter
is deserving or something like that.
Emily: Gabriel's just
trying to do a big purge
Jay: Yeah,
basically it's the Purge
Jeremy: Gabriel's like, you
guys are a bunch of nepo babies.
You should have to pull yourselves up by
your bootstraps to, uh, to get God's love.
Um,
Emily: Frickin Boomer
Ben: accurate.
Everything's pretty fucked until Con John
Constantine heroically slits his wrists.
Jay: Yep.
Jeremy: it's not a line you, you
get too often in these things,
the heroic, heroic risk slit.
Emily: But it's very
Ben: Uh,
make of it what you will.
And now we get the best scene in the
movie the devil played by Peter Stormare.
It is literally Diabolus Ex
Machina, where the devil comes in
and just fixes all of the plot,
Emily: Yes,
Ben: including the cancer.
Jeremy: He's like, son, go home.
Like,
Ben: Angel,
Jeremy: I'm the one that's
gonna fuck up this world.
Emily: yeah, which is very similar
to the prophecy too, like the whole
conceit of the prophecy that is
showed up in the very last like five
Ben: his,
Jeremy: his, his discussion
with, with Gabriel is great.
Cause Gabriel's like, you fucking demon.
Just starts calling him all the
old bad names and he's like, Oh
yeah, I don't like this stuff.
And Gabriel's like, I'm gonna fuck you
up and go watch him and it doesn't work.
And he's like, oh.
Yes, I guess somebody doesn't
have your back anymore.
And then Gabriel falls, not to
hell, but to LA just as bad.
it's the, it's her
wings burned
Ben: Angel movies.
I, I find it upsetting how often
we watch these movies with Angels,
and I find myself going, This
was explored better in Dogma.
Emily: Yeah, like a lot of these things
in these movies with Satan was like, all
they were explored much better in Dogma.
I will say that another John Constantine
movie sequel that I'd be interested in
maybe a different kind of movie, but
where Gabriel now has to like, figure
out how to get a bank account and a
credit score and like, rent a car.
And,
Jeremy: I mean, I feel like what you're
discussing is the Nicolas Cage film,
Ben: sequel,
uh, the sequel I would want to explore
is John Constantine having to deal
with the ramifications of having given
the Spear of Destiny to the LAPD.
I feel like that
might not have been the
best call at the end.
Emily: Well, I mean, we have
some, maybe we have some narrative
symmetry of where the spear came
Ben: Ha ha ha ha!
I see what you did there!
I'm not gonna connect those dots, but,
Jay: I I, I do think sadly, some of
the best moments in the movie come
in, like in these final moments
of Gabriel and Constantine though,
Emily: Yeah, and also Keanu is
Ben: yeah.
Emily: like
he's,
Ben: When Constantine gets pun when
Gabriel gets punched, that was great.
Like,
Jay: Gabriel.
Ben: just, till this
Jay: Gabriel's trying to get
Constantine to like sin instantly.
The devil's already, already cured
Constantine of his cancer and it's
like, you know, you're going to
fuck up if you live long enough.
And Gabriel's essentially already
trying to get Constantine to
sin again in that moment because
she's like, oh, you want revenge?
Why don't you come and, , shoot me?
Why don't you do it?
Ben: I mean, he truly takes that punch
like someone that has spent eons fucking
around and for the very first time in
his life has been made to find out.
Jeremy: yeah, and
I really appreciate, like, Gabriel's
immediate, like, like, justifying,
and they're like, oh, you've learned
something now, you don't want to
take revenge against me, and that means I
did something good, I should be an angel
Ben: okay, the best part though is
the very last thing we see Gabriel do.
Which is just kind of, walk
backwards back into the pool.
Which is just being like, okay, I
guess Gabriel wants more swimming time.
Emily: what were you saying, Jay?
Jay: but I was going to say that that
right after Constantine punches Gabriel,
that's like when Piano gets his, like,
one, one line of that lands in the movie.
He says, uh, that's called
pain, get used to it.
Like I said, like, like, I feel
like whoever wrote this just wrote
it for those final 15 minutes
of the movie and nothing else.
Like, just
Emily: yeah, like, there was definitely
a huge difference in the kind of just the
portrayal of the characters in the end
and Tilda did like sell that like, Just
abject shock and horror of like, the fuck?
Ben: Yeah, Tilda, Tilda, looks
like someone who's never been
hit, and is like, Pain hurts!
Why didn't nobody
Emily: me
Ben: anymore?
Tell me this before.
You made me bleed my own blood!
Jeremy: Nobody makes
me bleed my own blood.
Ben: So this movie I think it's got a
lot that's fun, a lot that's, , well
shot, interestingly directed.
It's got some great supporting
performances, but I think overall,
And again, and I think the realness
of it, I think what's aged well is
how real all the locations and sets
feel in an increasingly green screened
world, but I do think it's ultimately
let down by a meandering plot and
lackluster performances from the leads.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: I do wonder, like, how much
of some of that performance is them,
and how much of it is direction,
Because I, like, reading,
there's this interview that
Peter Stermeyer did with the A.
V.
Club where he talks about, like, the fact
that the devil's outfit, what he wears
as Satan in the movie is his idea, um,
Ben: incredible!
The design, like, the all white suit,
with the bare, tar coated feet Holy f ck.
Jeremy: apparently, like, the
director's vision for what Lucifer
should look like was leather trousers,
bare chested, and a dog collar with
spikes and tattoos all over his face.
Emily: uh, okay.
I mean, that's pretty 2000s.
Jeremy: he could have just borrowed
Ben: 2000s.
Jeremy: Rosdale.
I'm sure
Ben: Well that's what it is.
It's that's an incredibly 2000s design.
Whereas, Storm Heirs is
absolutely fucking timeless.
That visually shows both the characters
former Majesty and holiness while
also visually depicting his inha is
the way he bla he, what's the word?
What's the word?
What does Tarr do?
Burnifies?
It Tarrifies?
I don't know.
Corruptifies?
Whatever Tarr does, it
Tarrs stuff.
Emily: Just, yeah, the contrast.
But,
Ben: visual metaphor!
Emily: yeah.
And also, like, having it be Tar.
I thought was really interesting
because, yeah.
because like, usually you have a, , they
talk about sulfur, brimstone, right?
You have the, all these
Ben: Ah, well that great visual of
it just dripping down before you, and
hitting the floor before you even see him.
Emily: Yeah, and it is a unique of all
the Lucifers that we've seen, it is
kind of a unique Lucifer that we've,
you know, of all the movies that we've
watched for this, like, we have the
Al Pacino, we have the Robert De Niro.
We have
Um, the Viggo Mortensen, and I feel
like this one is the closest to Viggo
Mortensen, but it's also the one
that is the, like, it's like if Al
Pacino was playing the Viggo Mortensen
Ben: Well, it's the one, Well,
he's not trying to be a sexy devil.
Emily: yeah, but he's trying to
be a classy, fancy devil a little
bit with his, like, white suit.
But he does have, like, a lot of
this sort of mob boss gravitas
Ben: Yeah, like, this is, this
is a devil who delights in
people taking a shot at him.
Just so he can go, do you
know who the fuck I am?
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah,
Jay: I still think the best
Satan goes to Black Phillip.
Yeah,
Emily: I mean, in terms
of just like, subtlety
Ben: Stuart Mayer feels the most better
to rule in hell than serve in heaven,
Emily: yeah,
Ben: where he's like, Hell is
hell, but it's my fucking hell.
Emily: yeah I'll talk about some
other Lucifers in my recommendations,
Ben: Tom Ellis power hour!
Emily: Oh, also, we're basically done
with the recap, but we do have Angel Shia
LaBeouf at the post credits scene, which
makes no sense, but, you know, at least
Jeremy: you
Emily: Shia's
Jeremy: whatever.
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: Yeah, I, I think it's interesting
to think that theoretically, uh, this is
the same because theoretically it's all
happening in the Vertigo DC universe, that
theoretically this is the same Lucifer
that we see Gwendolyn Christie portraying
in Sandman, and the same Lucifer that
Tom Ellis is portraying in Lucifer, so.
Ben: I actually really love the
idea that all three are the same
being, or aspects of the same.
That actually goes so fucking hard.
Emily: and also, like, in Dante's
Inferno, the devil has three faces.
One is beautiful, one is not,
and the other one is sad.
One is blue and crying, one is, like,
red and angry and monstrous, and I
think one is supposed to be beautiful.
Maybe that's just because, like, there's
Ben: But Gwendolyn Christie
and Tom Ellis are so beautiful.
Emily: I know, but Tom
Ellis is the sad one.
Ben: Oh,
that's cause that's cause he has no
Jeremy: comics.
Like, same in comics, they have
lords of hell, so there's like
Lucifer, and then there's like,
these different aspects that are
very, like, stuff
Ben: how the, and that's how the
selling your soul to multiple
devils works in the comics.
But again, this is definitely a
much more Hollywood take where.
You know, he's become a better
person who doesn't smoke
Emily: With his cool gum.
Ben: with his, he
he,
Emily: gum the
Ben: no cigarettes, more guns, and
he's just gonna, oh, and he explicitly,
you know, if angels fuck around with
hell, he'll take care of them, but
he's more after just going after hell,
whereas I feel like the comics take
a much more, , like angels is almost
aristocracy take where they can be
just as big of, Bastards, and it's
more about just protecting the little
guy, wherever the little guy is,
from the more pow from like, powerful
assholes, which will always, angels will
always be fucking powerful assholes.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: I
Emily: They will always be looking down.
Ben: Yeah, like, there's a lot that's
like, for as much as it's trying to be
like, ooh, we're edgy and dark, it's
also a very child's idea of like, a,
like an early teenager's idea of edgy.
Because so much of what does make
Hellblazer truly a comic that
pushes the envelope of storytelling
gets completely sanded away.
Emily: Yeah.
I mean, it's barely there.
Hellblazer is a completely
different beast.
Jeremy: mean, talking about Garth Ennis
portrayals of religion, like, a lot of
the stuff in this is a little closer
to Preacher than it is to Hellblazer.
Emily: absolutely.
Ben: Oh yeah.
honestly, that's a good point.
Like, how he I can't imagine they
were familiar enough with comics
to even be intentional about this,
but you're right, this character
does feel like it owes more to Jesse
Custer than it does Sean Constantine.
Emily: Absolutely.
And like, also, I kept thinking
when they were talking about
half breeds, that's what I kept
thinking about, and I'm like, what?
Wait, no, that's a different comic.
Like, was this, is this a reference to
the thing that, like, I can't remember
what it was called, but it was the thing
that gave Jesse Koester the voice of God?
Ben: I wish I could say that this movie
was like, oh, it's, you know, it's a
bad adaptation of the comic, or the
character in the comic, but it's still
a really good movie in its own right.
But I really can't go quite that far.
It's an enjoyable movie for sure.
Emily: Do we want to talk about
the, um, the, yeah, I don't know.
Jeremy: If this movie were a
solid half hour shorter, it
would probably be a lot better.
Emily: yeah,
we have
Jeremy: cause there's a
lot of like dead space in that
second half hour of the movie.
Ben: yeah, for as little sense as it
makes, it might as well be 90 minutes.
Emily: Yeah.
So do we want to talk about
the, uh, our questions
with this one?
I do.
Jeremy: Yeah, uh, mental
illness, not great.
Um,
Emily: Not great at all.
Jeremy: yeah, the only thing we get is
that mental illness is actually people
having visions of ghosts that their
sisters don't tell their parents about.
Ben: If you've ever dealt with suicidal
ideation, you are going to hell,
and absolutely nothing you ever do
can ever change your You know, for
the crime of hating yourself, you
have to be tortured for eternity.
Jeremy: This movie takes a hard stand on
Catholicism was right about everything.
Ben: Yeah!
Jay: I think that's like the
main driving force between it.
And I'm sitting here, I'm thinking about
the movie, and you know what dawns on me?
I joke that, , Keanu Reeves is trying
to find something after Neil that,
you know, he had this going on,
he had a bunch of other projects.
He wanted to do Spike Spiegel
in the Cowboy Bebop movie.
But I think probably for the filmmakers,
and especially for the studio,
everyone was trying to search for,
like, a replacement for The Matrix.
They wanted, , before comic
book movies hit, that was the
thing everyone wanted to make.
Wanted to make another Matrix film.
So you had films like Equilibrium, you
had Underworld, you had The One, etc.
And I think Constantine is very much that.
And part of, you know, what made
Matrix so great for people was the
kind of world building and they, they
based it very strongly on, , Alice in
Wonderland, but also, you know, the
developments on the internet and all that.
I think that's kind of what Constantine
was going for where they based their
world building entirely on the Bible.
And entirely on like,
Catholic tropes and all that.
The reason I think it failed is because
they relied on that so heavily that
they felt like they didn't have to
really explain it to the audience.
You know, you just, you just kind
of assume this is how everything
works, you know, like, Blessed City
Water becomes holy, you know, there's
there's this fear that pierces Jesus
and that's somehow going to lead to
the birth of the Antichrist, etc.
Emily: It also makes you a CG, like, cow
killing monster that is immune to cars.
Jay: Yeah, yeah, so, you know, when it
comes to the thing about, Constantine
slashing his wrist so that the devil can,
knowing that Lucifer will come to collect
him so that he can bargain with him I
think maybe the movie thought it had a
shortcut in introducing, , Constantine's
mentor at the very beginning of the film.
Emily: Yeah.
Jay: They at no point made a real
strong connection between, look,
this is kind of the factual rules
of the world that this is based on
Catholicism and the Bible, et cetera.
It was all
Ben: Doctor Strange would have been
a way different movie if, Cumberbatch
also needed to slit his wrists in
order to make a deal with Tormammu.
Emily: Yeah.
Well, and that's
Ben: I'm just saying, that's the guy,
it's like, I'm not sure it's a good
movie, but it's full of like, stuff
that kind of makes you go like, ah,
well you couldn't do that nowadays.
Emily: yeah, it's interesting they
have this hard stance on suicide,
but unless the suicide is a selfless
act of self sacrifice, which is like,
that's really complicated, but that's,
Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, especially since,
like, we get the impression that the
sister's death has something to do with
the plot with the spear, which would
mean she's killing herself so that she
cannot be used as a tool to, , bring the
son of the devil into the world, which
does in fact make that then a selfless
sacrifice, so why is she in hell?
Emily: Yeah.
Jay: Right, like, like,
it's, it's not great.
I don't want to, like, second guess the
faith of the filmmakers, if any, right?
But it's like, I think Hollywood
in general is very kind of, if not
atheistic and agnostic as kind of like
default stance, because I think the
default stance of Hollywood on anything
is very kind of middle of the road,
offend the least people possible, you
know, and make something that's broad
and appealing to a lot of audiences.
And I think.
Religion is often the same, right?
Sometimes it will run away with
its ignorance, especially towards,
, indigenous practices and, and, Jewish
beliefs and Muslim beliefs, but for the
most part, it has, like, like this kind
of inoffensive approach to religion.
So I think its approach towards
Catholicism is, , It's pretty disingenuous
and you know, just kind of based on
what you might have like just taken
via osmosis growing up rather than
any, , sermons actually attended
or any understanding of the Bible.
It's interesting because I played
this horror game series recently
that's been, you know, it's been a
viral indie hit called called Faith.
And for something, it recreates
this Atari aesthetic and for
something that's like just.
a bunch of basic pixels and anim
and rotoscoping animations, which
tends to be extremely scary.
But I think of it as a parallel to
Constantine and what Constantine is
in this film that reimagines him,
because in Fates, you're playing
a priest who basically laughs in
his faith after a failed exorcism,
and he has to redeem himself.
And I don't want to make it, like, too
deeply theological here, but I think
that, you know, Constantine has a kind
of fundamental absence of God because
it's just not considered as a plot
point until the very end when you have
a very cliche scene of Constantine
ascending to heaven and then the devil,
, rips his cancer out of him, right?
And in faith, you never
get anything like that.
You never get anything like representing
anything angelic or like that, but I
think faith has the idea that , the
good acts that the priest is doing are
just his hard work against the forces
of hell or whatever that , that God's
role in the game faith is just to test.
I think it's also named
John or something like that.
And, you know, he overcomes his struggles
and that's how he proves himself as a
truly virtuous, holy warrior of God.
But Constantine goes with something,
, which I think is closer to, , teachings
from the Bible, but Constantine is
going for something that's more.
, again, in that, in that concept in
that, in a very 80s, 90s action movie
concept of you literally have to trade a
life for a life in order for that to be
reasonably good and anything, and I, I
think that's why so much of Constantine,
first of all, I think that's why a lot
of the lore falls apart with the movie
and why it's just kind of making stuff up
as it goes, and I think that's why these
moments just kind of don't land, because
it's not informed by anything, really.
Yeah.
Emily: a lack of effort, you know, of,
of there's certain points where they're
like, oh, well, and everyone knows that,
you know, like, holy water bad for demons,
good for, you know, like, or whatever.
But it doesn't discuss anything specific.
Like, it also introduces all these
other ideas that confuse the situation.
Like, there's a hell Bible.
And the Hell Bible gives us the
Ben: You might think the Hell
Bible sounds like something
that'll be important, it isn't.
Jeremy: It's just the
director's edition of the bible.
It's just, it's got extra
verses that were cut
Emily: Yeah,
Alan Smithy
Ben: it's it's just like
The Snyder Cut of the Bible.
Emily: Yeah
Jeremy: The Snyder Cut of anything
is the hell version of it, I
Emily: that's true, that's true.
Ben: What, are you saying
you don't want to watch two
versions of Rebel Moon, Jeremy?
Jeremy: You know what?
I'm
Emily: feminist?
Jeremy: is fine.
At least it's not another
Justice League film.
Ben: I mean, let's see,
is this movie feminist?
We have two women characters,
both played by Rachel Weisz.
It does empower, it does let Tilda Swinton
put on an absolute powerhouse performance.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: I guess.
Emily: but not as a woman.
Jeremy: Yeah, I mean,
genderless character.
Ben: And the rest we have, let's
see literally demonize the mental
illness and don't let the accent slip.
An officer don't let the accent slip.
Emily: Yeah, and she is objectified
for the purpose of being objectified.
It's so much so that the main
character makes a takes a beat
of conversation to objectify her.
Ben: He does, and it's the first
of a few times they try to have
like this flirtatious chemistry.
And there's nothing.
Nothing.
The characters have no
fucking sexual chemistry.
Emily: yEah, I'm gonna say
no.
This movie is not yeah, it is cringe,
which is the opposite of feminist.
Jeremy: okay?
Ah, what a stance.
Yeah, as far as, uh, social
justice, different people of
color, I mean, we can obviously,
Keanu is is not just a white guy
Ben: I'm gonna go ahead and,
without looking it up, say
Juman Hanzo was not paid enough.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: and did not appear enough for
hat, hat, for the amount of personality
that he has given while he's on screen,
or that he is exhibiting while on screen.
Like, he's really, he's really
milking that hat for all it's worth.
Emily: For all of the Exposition that
we get, we do not need to get any
exposition about how he's a cool dude,
like, you can walk into that, like, I
could start, we could start that movie
cold in that club and we go to that room
and we see that dude with a cigarette
Ben: We know that's a cool motherfucker.
Emily: yeah, I'm like, hell,
yeah, I want to talk to that dude.
Jeremy: Yeah, I love the bit where he's
like, praying over John before he's
leaving, and John's like, fuck off.
Like,
Emily: yeah, and then
you just keep spraying.
Jeremy: has so much more
personality than most of the movie.
Again, because it's in the third act.
Like, the third act of this movie,
Ben: Like, and him and Keanu
have chemistry together.
The closest we get to, like, banter
is between Midnight and Constantine.
I
Emily: yeah,
Jay: I keep going back to this thing
about music videos where I think if I
were going to represent Los Angeles's
diversity in a music video, this movie
is something that I would do, right?
Like you have, uh, I'll accept the
killing a ton of people seem, but you
know, um, you do have Keanu, who was
like, , he's got a mixed background.
You do have the Latin characters.
You do have, , the kind of black
voodoo guy who runs the club.
You've got, you know, and you have the
Chinese family that's exercised in the
beginning of the movie and all that.
Um, you know, so it's got, , I
feel like I'm painting a very,
very, very broad image of.
Los Angeles, like an advertising
campaign, then I would think of
something like this, , again, it's
like, it's like the religion thing.
I don't think it has
anything specific to say.
I think it's just, cares more about
the aesthetic than anything in
terms of the story or the writing.
Emily: Yeah, it's, uh, it is
definitely, like, look at all the
flavors of God in Los Angeles,
um,
Jeremy: Yeah, it's, it's it's nice in
that it's not Friends, where they pretend
like there aren't any people of color.
Like, In Los Angeles, , there are
people, uh, unfortunately, I think
like everybody's sort of underserved
by the script and by just the film
itself, like nobody, people have very
little personality and the characters
that do have very little screen time.
Emily: Yeah.
and at least it's not Predator 2.
Jeremy: Okay, I can agree that it's not
Ben: I Yeah, I, yeah,
no, no doubts about that.
It is, there
is a movie that isn't Predator 2.
Emily: yeah.
Would Danny Glover made this film better?
Jeremy: Danny Glover is Papa Midnight.
Danny Glover is John constantine.
Emily: why I did not say that.
Yeah, I would say, like,
Danny Glover is the cop.
Jeremy: John constantine
saying, I'm too old for this
Ben: Danny Glover as Grandpapa Midnight.
Jeremy: Danny Glover is Gabriel.
Emily: that actually sounds
pretty fucking inspired.
It's a very different take, but
it's, I would be very interested
seeing how that would roll out.
Jeremy: I mean, that really leaves,
class, which, um, this movie is generally
just a little confused in the way that
a lot of movies are of like, yes, this
is this like beat up asshole apartment,
but the floors are really nice.
And it has this great, like, 40s, cloth
foot tub in it, because, you I guess all,
like, really shitty apartments have giant
bathtubs, like, that I would just, I would
fucking love to have this tub in my much
nicer house than what they have in this
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: but,
Emily: it's a real Evil Dead
Rise situation here, where it's
like, apparently this building
is old and shitty, but also,
and it's a bowling alley too.
Like, fucking dude lives
in a bowling alley, we
Jeremy: Why is it a bowling alley?
Emily: I don't
Jeremy: Why?
is it a bowling alley?
Why?
Emily: it's, cause you can have all
of those fucking, like, machines
back there and then they start moving
and it's the aesthetic is fuck.
That's like the,
Jeremy: I want a reason, or like, uh,
at least, like, oh yeah, Beeman's family
just owned this fucking bowling alley,
something, like, I don't know why,
one, they're in a bowling alley, two,
apparently the apartment where he goes
to drown Rachel Weisz is, like, connected
to the bowling alley, because they run
from, her drowning and having her vision
into, you know, the bowling alley.
Emily: yeah.
Maybe the bee in Bee Man is bull.
Jeremy: he's bowling alley man.
Emily: He's Bulling Alleyman.
That's just his thing.
I want his movie.
Jeremy: Yeah this movie feels entirely
like scraps from other movies that
somebody just like pasted together.
They were like, yeah, and
let's, let's have this and
this and a little bit of this.
Ben: It feels like, yeah, it
definitely feels like an editor was
given like five hours of footage and
be like, cobble this into a movie.
Jeremy: Five hours of footage
filmed by three different directors
with very different visions for this film.
yeAh, I mean, and then speaking of, I
mean, our one other question is about
sort of LGBTQIA representation, which
there's none explicit, but, uh, as
Ben said, Gabriel and gender is a lot.
Emily: Gabriel is very
Ben: I mean, there is some real fucking
non binary finery going on with Gabriel.
I mean, that is just like a.
Genderqueer, I mean, just, I
mean, even just subtextually and
visually, like, the androgyny and the
genderqueerness of it is Sure shit's
stayed with me, I'll tell you that.
Emily: Yeah, I think that was
what the biggest thing that
the movie had going for it.
Honestly.
Jeremy: dressed like they just
came from like Muay Thai, like.
Emily: Yeah, but stole everybody's
hospital bands, or just went to like a
million different clubs, and then, you
know, they were old enough to drink.
Jeremy: Yeah, the design really
feels almost like, like a fighting
game design, where it's like, there
are a lot of things, we don't have
to justify any of them, we're just,
Emily: yeah.
Ben: Why, like, her pants
were, like, the cowboy pants,
Emily: Gabriel wins.
Constantine
wins.
Yeah, where's Gabriel as an
unlockable character in Mortal Kombat?
Cowards.
Ben: Omni Man.
Emily: Okay, good.
I mean, DC characters are in, uh, Mortal
Kombat, so let's, uh, you know, yeah.
Jeremy: I just want Tilda Swinton as an
unlockable character in Mortal Kombat,
just, just the actress Tilda Swinton.
Emily: like in all sorts of
Ben: Well, the, actor Jean
Claude Van Damme is a character
in this latest one, so,
Jeremy: Of course she is.
Ben: yes.
Emily: Jesus.
But he already had a fighting game.
That was Street Fighter
the movie, the game.
Ben: This
is
Jay: true,
that's true
Emily: so yeah, I think, uh, that
kind of Well, and then there's Bush.
The band, Gavin Rosdale's
band was called Bush.
I don't know if that's feminist or
LGBTQIA, but actually there's not a lot
of I don't think there's a lot of, like,
LGBTQIA representation in the band Bush.
Um.
Yeah
Jeremy: so do we feel like
this movie is worth seeing?
Do we recommend people check it out?
Emily: for Tilda Swinton alone, and um,
uh,
Ben: yeah, Yeah.
Emily: Much like the prophecy, I think you
should just kind of go to those scenes.
Jeremy: Yeah I think legitimately,
like the last half hour of
this movie is pretty fun.
But almost like, again, like The
Prophecy, like, uh, Devil's, well
not, less so Devil's Advocate.
Devil's Advocate was,
had fun stuff throughout.
But like, like The Prophecy, I feel
like if you were to just watch, The
like, last half hour of this, if you
were to just, , find some YouTube clips
of Gabriel and, and Lucifer, like,
you'd really get most of what there is.
It's not, I don't feel like it's
worth the two hour price tag.
Jay: yeah,
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: Lots, lots of
visuals, not much plot.
Emily: yeah, a lot of carbs.
Jay: But confusing visuals
Emily: Yes, yeah,
Jay: thAt don't track all the way through.
I
Ben: No.
Jeremy: to explain the
plot in a music video, you
Ben: There's definitely, like, interesting
shots here, which, again, makes sense
from the music video background.
Emily: yeah.
Hell
Jay: mean, you can watch a woodkid video
if you want some interesting shots.
Yeah,
Emily: videos fucking rule.
Oh my Woodkid videos from, I think
it's The Golden Is The Golden
Age is the name of the album.
Jay: yeah,
Emily: Yeah.
And there's like, they have the three
videos that are sort of in like a,
narrative order, which is, iron Run,
boy Run, and I can't remember the
third, the name of the third one
Jay: I'm drawing by the third one.
Emily: I think it's something about
Love I Love You or something like that.
But that's the one with the the priest
and like the whales and everything.
But yeah, if you want to see like
somewhat some cinema fuckintography,
those videos are where it's at.
Jeremy: Yeah, um,
Ben: yeah.
I did my recommendation
for Hellblazer Comics.
Emily: Yes,
Jeremy: yeah, uh, Emily, did
you have a recommendation?
Emily: I had a couple.
One was Sandman which has also a
fun, like, they kind of did the
one lesson learned from Constantine
the movie that was applied was,
you know, having the Gwendolyn
Christie Lucifer, which is fantastic.
And, of course, you know, more Vertigo
stuff, which is, and Sandman is a lot
more, the show is a lot more like, it
feels more like a Vertigo comic than
any of the, this movie does remotely.
Jeremy: Their version of Constantine
who is a female Constantine, Joanna
Constantine, is, uh, I think legit pretty
impressive and is, you know, she gets
the John Constantine story from Sandman
which is one of the more solid stories
in that first, that first arc of Sandman.
Ben: It's such a different look,
but it's still such a striking look.
Would love more of her.
Emily: Yeah.
I also, if you want a nice movie
about redemption trying to save
yourself from hell, and trying to
avoid just shitty angels and demons.
All dogs go to heaven.
That's
Jay: Yeah,
Emily: similar.
Jeremy: all right.
okay, that's a recommendation.
JaY, did you have anything
you wanted to recommend?
Jay: anything else?
Go watch Silent Hill, go watch Blade,
Book of Eli, Underworld I just I
feel like, I don't know that any
of those movies are particularly
good, but they're more entertaining.
I guess if I want to go for something
with a similar ish themes to
Constantine, I probably would go
with either Book of Eli or Logan.
Um, you know, if you want the kind
of don't give a shit superhero at
the end of the world, sacrificing his
life for the next generation slash,
slash female energy in the film, I
think those two movies about cover it.
Book of Eli, I think is also interesting
because I don't think it has like, I
think it's similar to Constantine where
it doesn't really have a religious
message either, but I think it.
does understand its source material
a bit more than Constantine
did, um, in terms of that.
I'm not, I'm actually not super
familiar with the actual character
from comics I think my only real help
laser book actually came from Dee,
but I have been reading Spirit World,
and I've enjoyed that a great deal.
With, um, Costantino as
kind of a sidekick there.
Um,
Emily: yeah.
yeah.
Jay: oh and, um, Probably a little
left field, but Scott Snyder's
Witches, I would also recommend.
Anything
Ben: Good book.
Emily: Okay.
Jay: Yeah.
Emily: I haven't seen that one.
Or read that one.
Jeremy: Yeah, I think you'd
actually really like that Emily.
Emily: Cool.
Jeremy: yeah, so I feel like, uh, because
just by sheer coincidence, because
we've been talking about different
portrayals of Satan and Lucifer and
stuff we've happened to pick two movies
in which we kind of dumped on Keanu
Reeves a lot for, with good reason,
he doesn't give great performances
in this or The Devil's Advocate,
but I do really like Keanu Reeves
Ben: Oh yeah, we love, look we love Keanu.
Jeremy: Yeah, and I,
Ben: Keanu.
Jeremy: I think, like, there's two ways
to go with watching Keanu Reeves stuff.
Obviously, like, you can go with his
earlier, like, pre Matrix stuff, like Bill
Ted, like Point Break, which is ridiculous
but fun in a way that this movie isn't.
Or, you know, even Much Ado About
Nothing, in which he, there's just a
lot going on to enjoy in that film,
even if maybe not all of it is great.
What, the other thing, though, is,
like, I love current Keanu Reeves.
Obviously, like, John Wick's a lot of
fun, but like, if you haven't played the
game Cyberpunk 2077, in which he appears
as like a major character who is sort
of in your brain throughout the thing,
, Jay: you know what's
really funny about that?
I was actually talking to some friends
of mine about the podcast and I made
the same joke about about, , , Keanu
searching between Neo and John
Wick and my friends are just tell
people about Johnny Silverhead.
So I'm outside.
He's great in that.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah.
he's, he's really fun and
really sort of wild in that.
I think he does a great job.
I think, I think this man has legitimately
become a better actor over time.
And like, John Wick captures some of that,
but also like, I really love him getting
thrown into a, like a random comedic beat.
Like, his relatively short
appearance in Always Be My Maybe.
Is like, he's so good, and he's just
playing Keanu Reeves in that movie.
Ben: I thought he was wonderful
in, uh, Bill and Ted 3,
Bill and Ted Face the Music.
Emily: I haven't seen that one.
Ben: I think it's wonderful.
I think it's a great
addition to the series.
Jeremy: yeah, Face the Music is really
good, and I think does a nice job of
sort of, Splitting the story between
Bill and Ted and their daughters.
Ben: he does a British accent in
it, and uh, spoilers, he has not
improved since Bram Stoker's Dracula.
Emily: Well, I mean if it's the same
British accent that he did in Bill and
Ted, then I think that that's a different
beast and that's a definitely like a
thing that is enjoyable on its own,
Ben: Oh yeah, no, he, he, look, that
is him slipping in, that is, he fits
right back into the character, and
it's a pretty good, and it's a really
delightful time, so, you know what, I also
recommend Bill and Ted Face the Music.
Jeremy: genuinely All three Bill
and Ted movies, like Bill S.
Preston, Esquire, and Ted Theodore
Logan are two of my favorite,
like, characters in movies, period.
Emily: What, what was that, Jay?
Jay: I was gonna I'm gonna ask no
hardball recommendations for Keanu Reeves.
Emily: I haven't seen
it.
I, now I
Ben: no.
Jay: this is really
depressing to think about.
But we do have like an entire
generation of young people that.
May not have watched the First Matrix
movie, and that's worth, taking a look at.
Jeremy: Yeah, the first and
fourth Matrix movies I think
are genuinely worth watching.
Uh, you probably have to watch
some of three to figure out what
the fuck's going on in four, but
like, I really enjoyed Matrix's
reactions, and I know Ben did as well.
Emily: haven't seen it yet, so
Ben: Yeah, I really like
Matrix Resurrections.
Jay: I I've seen it.
I, I think it's I'd love, I love how
it starts, so I'll put it that way.
I'm a bit more cynical when it comes
to films, but, uh, I, I think the
start of that film was amazing.
And I, you know, I, I rewatched I, I did
rewatch the original matrix recently.
That's still a stand up film.
You know, if you watch it
in a void without the other
two movies, it's fantastic.
Emily: Yeah, well it's a movie
that doesn't really need a sequel,
you know.
The best sequel to The Matrix was the,
um, MTV Music Awards, or MTV Movie
Awards
version
Jay: with uh,
Will
Emily: Sykes.
Yeah, Sykes
Jay: actually still quote that to
this day, vis a vis, concurrently.
Is
Emily: I think that was the same
MTV Movie Awards that had the Gollum
acceptance speech, which everyone
go on YouTube and find that shit
because it is fucking hilarious.
It's very 2000s, but it's, it's great.
Yeah,
Jeremy: 2000s episode.
Yeah, and, , again, if you haven't seen
Always Be My Maybe, he just plays Keanu
Reeves in that, and he's fucking hilarious
in, in this small portion of it that he's
in, and the movie's good beyond that as
well so, I would recommend that, I believe
that's a Netflix original film too,
so,
Yeah, it's a lot of fun,
got Ali Wong in it as well
Ben: Nice.
Jeremy: alright, great.
So, uh, that about wraps it up.
Uh, Jake, do you want to let people
know where they can find out more about,
uh, you and what you're doing online?
Jay: a great question, you know.
I'm actually having a really hard
time with the transition away from X.
In the meantime, people can find me,
you know, on X slash Twitter, Cynical
Angst, , that's at Cynical Angst
and, uh, that's all I got for now.
Jeremy: More appropriate on an X
than ever, being cynical angst.
Emily: yeah, for
Jay: Yeah.
Ben: Accurate.
Jeremy: Uh, Ben, what about you?
Ben: You can find me at
BenKahnComics, BenKahnComics.
com, BlueSkyInstagram, and if
you still want to do the old
Twitters, I'm at BenTheKahn.
And, uh, yeah, make sure to check out
El Campbell wins their weekend, and,
Captain Laserhawk, a Blood Dragon remix.
Jay: Congratulations on that, by the
way.
Ben: thank you so much.
Jay: Yeah.
Emily: Yeah, that was, I've seen
that on Netflix and I was like, hey!
Ben: I'm very excited for
the comic to come out.
Jeremy: And, uh, Emily, what about you?
Emily: Mega moth.net where you
can find most of my things and you
know, which I will highlight Mega
Moth on Instagram and Mega Moth.
Mega, yeah, regular mega Moth
on, uh, on Patreon and Blue Sky.
Jeremy: And, uh, I am on Twitter and
Tumblr at, no, I'm on Twitter and
Instagram at jrome58, and I'm on Tumblr
and Blue Skies is Jeremy Whitley.
You can find me in any of those places.
You can also find me on my
website at JeremyWhitley.
com.
If you're listening to this, when it
comes out in December the School for
Extraterrestrial Girls book 2 by myself
and Jamie Noguchi just came out, and you
can go pick it up right now at the store,
and you can also, while you're there, pre
order The Cold Ever After, my book with
Megan Wong that's coming out in February.
Which is, is gonna be a lot of fun,
a little bit of horror, a little
bit of romance, a little bit of noir
in there, so it's a little bit of
everything but you can pre order that
because it comes out in February.
And, uh, as far as the podcast goes you
can, of course, find us on Patreon at
Progressively Horrified you can go to
our website at progressivelyhorrified.
transistor.
fm or on Twitter at ProgHorrorPod,
and, uh, you can, uh, you can find us
on Twitter at Progressively Horrified.
We'd love to hear from you, and speaking
of loving to hear from you, we would love
it if you'd rate and review this podcast
wherever you're listening to it right now.
Reviews help us get more listeners,
which help us do more podcasts,
which then you'll also get to
listen to, so mutually beneficial.
Thanks again to, uh, our
guest Jay for joining us.
Jay: Thank you for having me.
Emily: it's always a
pleasure.
Ben: great having you on,
Jay.
Jeremy: absolutely.
And, uh, thanks as always to
all of you for listening, and
until next time, stay horrified.