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The Healthy Wealth Experience - Where Financial Success Meets Personal Wellbeing
Host Chris Hall combines 30+ years in finance with wellness expertise to help entrepreneurs and professionals build wealth without sacrificing their health. From investment strategies to money management, we offer advice to make financial success more sustainable.
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Chris Hall (00:00)
Hello, welcome to the Healthy Wealth Experience with your hosts, me, Chris Hall. And today I'm excited to have a very well-known author, Gladys DuCluet. And she is a retired C-suite executive and she has a book that came out in September. I'm really excited to talk about the different things that she did to forge her way through business as a trailblazing black woman. So Gladys, thank you so much for being on the show.
Gladys DeClouet (00:24)
Thank you, Chris, for having me. ⁓ I'm excited to be here and share what I can with your audience today.
Chris Hall (00:26)
Of course.
That's great. So I went over your CV and basically said you went to Tuskegee for university and then you got your MBA at Wisconsin. But your degree at Tuskegee was engineering, but then you went and got an MBA. Can you tell me a little bit about how you went from engineering as a main degree to an MBA?
Gladys DeClouet (00:38)
Yes.
⁓ yes. Well, I majored in engineering at Tuskegee because, ⁓ that was, you know, my undergrad straight out of high school. And in high school, I was on my whole life. I'd always been, you know, just really good in the math, the sciences and, ⁓ and that kind of stuff. And I'd taken all the college prep courses, you know, like all the physics and chemistry and trigonometries and all that stuff.
So when Simon graduated, and I graduated as valedictorian, the counselors and the principal, everybody kind of was really interested in helping to give me some guidance about what to do. And so everyone really encouraged me that given I have the aptitude to be a good engineer, that I should go and major in engineering. And at that time, this was in the mid-1975s,
know, engineering was in high demand and they were paying really well. And so I was encouraged to take that path. So I took a scholarship and went to college and majored in mechanical engineering. And that degree and that major took me, you know, to the oil industry. and I, at that time, when I came out in 1979, we were missed the United States.
or the world, the big oil boom. And so there was a lot of demand in the oil industry and they were ⁓ really looking for engineers, know, they were paying well and offering great careers. And so it took me in that direction and which was the beginning of something that was truly
pioneering and revolutionary, you that's how I ended up being the first female in offshore oil and gas exploration and production. And of course that was like, you know, a whole new world, not just for me, but for everyone experiencing me in their world, right? ⁓ So, but as I entered that, I, you know, and I'm sure we'll probably come back to talk about that.
Chris Hall (02:39)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Gladys DeClouet (02:49)
a little more, but in that world, you know, I was fully capable and I did enjoy all of the technical aspects and, being an engineer and designing offshore facilities and drilling, all drilling plans and all these sorts of things. It was great. But what I really discovered and saw was that my passion,
was still more around all of the economics and the financial side of the business. And that's what I enjoyed the most about what I was doing was really doing all of the economic feasibility analysis and determining how to most economically produce a whole oil field or how many oil wells should we drill, those sorts of things. anyway, I really...
decided after doing that for five years that, you know, it was time for me to really start to pursue what I wanted to do, which is something more financial. And so I took an opportunity that came about and which is when they were relocating our entire division, not just me, but the whole division was being moved to a different city. And so that presented this opportunity where they bought my house and
It was like the perfect time to say, you know what? I'm out of here. I'm going to go back to school full time. I'm going to get my MBA. And so I majored in finance and investment banking at Wisconsin. And when I got out of MBA school though, I did go back to the oil industry. know, originally I was thinking something different, but then it really made sense. You know, by the time I got to work graduation because
I was an experienced engineer, an experienced oil person who now had an MBA. So I was really valuable to the oil industry, as opposed to me just being another brand new MBA going to the Wall Street or something. So I ended up going back to the oil industry, but this time I didn't go back upstream and exploration and production. I went to the downstream side of the oil industry.
Chris Hall (04:35)
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Gladys DeClouet (04:52)
when I joined Standard Oil, which became BP. But that side of the industry is kind of where it takes you closer and closer and closer to the consumer. know, started into refinery supply and transportation and distribution and on and on until I moved down the chain, in aviation, moved down the chain until I ended up in retail. I mean, running the retail operations there.
Chris Hall (05:16)
Okay,
so when you were working for BP, did you actually work on the rigs or did you kind of just go out and visit rigs? Like did you have to stay out there? Because I know that in that industry, like people will do like two weeks on, two weeks off, where they'll stay on the rig for two weeks and then they'll come off for two weeks. Is that something you had to do or were you more of like, hey, I'm gonna go in, work on some stuff and then get back out?
Gladys DeClouet (05:39)
Okay. First, I should clear up. When I was an engineer, I was not working for BP. I went to work for Conoco first. So I was working for Conoco and my office was in Lake Charles, Louisiana. That's where the division office was. So it was kind of, as you're describing, I had a normal business office downtown in the tower with the rest of the professionals and other engineers. But the work that I did.
Chris Hall (05:46)
okay.
yeah.
Gladys DeClouet (06:05)
was out in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico. So I went to the office at times, but then I was out in the field a lot. And I went out to the field by helicopter because Gladys didn't like boats. So I did all of my trips by helicopter out to the field. But yeah, so I had to go back and forth and it depends on what's going on.
Chris Hall (06:08)
Right.
hahahaha
Yeah.
Gladys DeClouet (06:31)
And even on the ground, like for instance, when I was in production engineering, I actually had the opportunity to design. First I did the design for two brand new platforms that were going offshore to design all the production facilities that were going to go on the platform. So then I had to go down, go into construction yards on land in, out of New Orleans on the South bank there, the West bank, I'm sorry.
and supervise the construction in the construction yards to prefab and pre-put all this stuff on the platforms. Then we put them on a big barge and you ship it out to sea and we go out there and then you take these giant cranes on their barges and you set the platform in the ocean with the stuff on it. And now you got to finish all the final hookups and weldings and getting all this stuff. So I had to be out there for...
you know, for all that stuff. And then when I became a reservoir engineer, obviously I had to be out there on the drilling rigs then. And, you know, for the actual drilling to be sure we were doing things safely and dealing, anticipating the right pressures and not having blowouts and killing people and that kind of thing. So, yeah, so I had to spend a lot of time out on the, you know.
out of the rigs or on the platforms then. And you're right, that world was an interesting one because you had people, worked seven, some production platforms, they may work seven and seven, or maybe 14 and 14 on drilling rigs. You had people working 30 and 30. And some people even longer than 30 days, you know, on the derrick barns and things like that. So the environment, you know, having this young female show up.
Chris Hall (08:01)
Oof.
Gladys DeClouet (08:14)
in that world where we didn't even have, they did not have bathroom or sleeping facilities for women yet. Yes. So that was a very interesting world. these men, they hadn't been around their women or their families for long periods of time.
Chris Hall (08:21)
You beat me to it. That was going to be one of my questions.
Gladys DeClouet (08:35)
They weren't shy about just being totally out of line sexual harassment, just off the charts. It was very interesting. Like I said, without the sleeping quarters out there for me, was, on a production platform, they may have quarters for four people in a quarters. But if I showed up,
Chris Hall (08:42)
my gosh
Gladys DeClouet (08:59)
Obviously they didn't have one for me. So three other men couldn't sleep in one of the quarters if I showed up. And so that added to the resentment that was already out there in the first place, ⁓ you know, the tension level for that. And then if I was on the drilling rig, they're just, that environment, that's when I say people out there 30 and 30 and what have you, that environment was so tough that what I...
If I had to stay out there overnight, which I had to do, I literally slept in my fully clothed, in a chair, sitting in the foreman's office because I wasn't willing, it just wasn't safe for me to do otherwise.
Chris Hall (09:36)
Yeah. Yeah, you
were going to put yourself in that situation. Smart. Yeah. Yeah.
Gladys DeClouet (09:41)
Right. Yeah,
so I sat, I I slept in the chair in the former's office. And that's how I had to handle that whole situation. Yeah, those are some interesting days. ⁓
Chris Hall (09:46)
my gosh, wow.
Gladys DeClouet (09:55)
But for sure, and not just a sexual harassment, they really, you have to appreciate the environment and where I was. I'm in Louisiana and Texas, the southern part of the United States at a time, and I started, I actually went out there first in 1978, and...
Chris Hall (10:07)
Mm-hmm.
Gladys DeClouet (10:17)
You know, and they would just tell me to my face, just point blank, you know, I should be home barefoot and pregnant and to get my tight blank blank off the rig. And, just, ⁓ and those are some of the nicer things that they would say to me. and just, it was, it was constant, you know, every moment of every day, just proving myself over and over and over.
Chris Hall (10:22)
Mmm.
You
Gladys DeClouet (10:38)
that I have the right to be here, I've earned the right to be here, I know what I'm doing, just let me do my job and let, you know, and that's sort of how things went. And everything was a challenge, you know. I even wrote in the book about one incident where the guy literally just, you know, when he saw that I was the person in charge of the project, he literally just spit his tobacco.
on my feet, just right on my boots. This is like, you know. Yeah, right. The whole point was always to be as disrespectful and as difficult as possible to try and really get me to say, you know, I think I should leave. going to, you know, I'm going to throw in the towel. This is just too much.
Chris Hall (11:10)
Just a sign of just massive disrespect.
Gladys DeClouet (11:30)
And I, you know, but they had the wrong person for that because I'm like, the, the worst you behave, the more I was, you know, I was determined to prove to you that I was going to make it and I was not going to let you run me off.
Chris Hall (11:42)
⁓
Where do you think that that fortitude came from, like for you? Like how did you grow up to where that's something you're like, I'll take this challenge and I'll meet it.
Gladys DeClouet (11:53)
I don't know, guess. It's just me I've always known. ⁓ I don't know, I've just, I've never run from a challenge. like, you know.
Chris Hall (11:56)
Hehehehehe
Gladys DeClouet (12:02)
Everything is difficult, know, life is difficult and tough. so, you you just have to.
Chris Hall (12:08)
What did your parents do for a living?
Gladys DeClouet (12:10)
You have to step up.
Well, that was also part of my journey. My biological father died when I was too young to even know who he was. I was a baby. My ⁓ mother.
and later my stepfather. She was a assistant, well, a hygienist in a dental office at her best point, know, when her life was at its best point. And my stepfather was a salesman. He was an appliance salesman.
You know, they both worked second jobs and things and cleaned up at night, dairy cleans and things, trying to provide for the big family and that kind of thing. came from, I guess, ⁓ definitely a strong work ethic family, a church going family, you know, yeah, just a believer in.
and faith and things are, you know.
Yeah.
Chris Hall (13:04)
Okay. Yeah, that's great.
You just grew up, just like give me the challenge, I'll take it on.
Gladys DeClouet (13:10)
Yeah, yeah. continued in my life and I share a lot of that in the book, it just comes to challenge after challenge after challenge. so resilience is sort of one of the key messages in that book for me is about resilience. Matter of fact, that is why I named the title of the book, A Layered Life.
And that is because, you know, life is layered. It is not all good, and it's not all bad, but it's gonna be, you're gonna get it, all of it, you know, right? It's gonna weave together the good and the bad, and you just can't separate the two. when you're at some great highs,
you're gonna get hit with some deep things. And in my life, I certainly lived through the loss of so many close loved ones in my life, you know? And at times when things are tough, know, the spouse, you know, getting cancer and dying, it's just, there were just a lot of things.
in life. And one of my big messages in my book, though, is that, you know, and I guess I'm a believer in this, I am a believer in this, and that is that, you know, life is layered and we're going to have all these challenges, but we can take those challenges and use them as stepping stones for, you know, for growth and development and, you know, for, for
toward purpose and legacy and learn what we can and let it build character for us. Let it teach us lessons, you know? And a lesson can be something very positive that you learn and it's something you want to build upon and repeat in life. Or a lesson can simply be that this is the way I don't want to be.
And I learned so many lessons, particularly in my early oil industry days and stuff. And those lessons were that this is not the type of leader I am going to be, right? In certain situations where I wasn't, the leaders abdicated their responsibility to really
Chris Hall (15:08)
You
Gladys DeClouet (15:32)
look out and protect me and those sorts of things. I said, I would not be a leader who abdicated my responsibility. would, I'm gonna stand up for my employees. I'm gonna make the tough calls and not hide behind people, ensure everybody can work and contribute and try to succeed, free of racism and sexism and sexual harassment, those kinds of things. Or that I'm not gonna treat people.
Chris Hall (15:46)
Mm-hmm.
Gladys DeClouet (15:59)
a lot of the ways that I was treated. I'm gonna make people feel valued, make them feel appreciated and get a lot more out of them as a team and get a much stronger, higher performing team by treating people the right way, those sorts of things. you know, even when you go through tough times, you my thing is you look for what kind of you learn in that situation that you can.
Chris Hall (16:15)
Right?
Gladys DeClouet (16:25)
use and help move you forward, you know, in a positive way.
Chris Hall (16:28)
Right?
No, I love that. I coach ⁓ football. And when I was playing football, I definitely had all different kinds of coaches. But I remember the coaches that I disliked the most were the ones that yelled and screamed at me all the time. And so when I became a coach, I think in my early years, I sort of modeled that a little bit because that's kind what I knew. But then as I realized, I didn't like being yelled at. So why am I yelling at people?
⁓ so I kind of like just transitioned over time to like where, you know, I mean, I'll raise my voice, but it's mostly just to be heard because, know, when you're on a football field with 50 people all over the place, you kind of have to sometimes raise your voice. But, you know, I think what I'm hearing is like, I, I took what came at me and, and I went, I don't want to be like that either. And I feel like, you know, I've had a couple of conversations on the podcast about leadership and, you know, what I'm hearing from you is, the difference between, you know, you've had transactional.
type leaders in your life and now you are more of a transformational leader. Like you're gonna do your best for your people and in return they'll be the best employees they can be, which I think is really cool.
Gladys DeClouet (17:28)
Right.
Yeah, that is definitely my philosophy. If you take care of your people, everything else is going to be taken care of. You're going to always win because if you treat your team and your employees or whatever the way that you want them to treat your customers or your clients and your guests, then...
Chris Hall (17:49)
Mm-hmm.
Gladys DeClouet (17:50)
then that's what they're going to do. And then you're going to get more customers, more guests. Everybody's going to make more money. They can get better raises. You can hire more people. It all pans out by just taking care of your people, treating them with that care and respect, and making them feel valued and appreciated, understand their roles and how they fit in the team and why they're so important to the team, and embracing everybody.
you know, on the team and their ideas and their inputs and, you know, so a lot of what I, you know, I would say a lot of adversity that I went through in my life, you know, taught, it developed me into a person who really, I value inclusive leadership. I value diversity of thought, people, all experiences.
and
and really build leadership on that mutual respect and trust and integrity. That's kind of the key, because I think you have to earn your leadership position. You've got to earn that respect. And you do that, I think, by demonstrating and showing that unwavering integrity.
and that active compassion for people and consistent performance that they can count on you.
Chris Hall (19:12)
Yeah, yeah, no, I love that. When you
got your MBA and you went back, you said you worked for Standard Oil, which then became BP. What was your job title there when you first got to Standard Oil?
Gladys DeClouet (19:20)
Mm-hmm.
My first job out of grad school was I was a planning analyst in crude oil trading and transportation. And I really had a wonderful set of experiences at BP because I got to do a variety of functional roles as well as
in different parts of the business and learn the whole business. So yeah, so my first job was like I said, planning analysts, include all trading and transportation. And then I got to become a business development specialist in the lower 48 pipelines. Then I was a financial controller for the Alaskan pipeline. Then I became a manager planning for our international aviation fuels business. And then I got to...
be a region manager in terminals and distribution running the facility where we store all of petroleum products and then distribute them out to all of the consumers and gas stations. Those 18-wheeler trucks you see out there with 9,000 gallons of product on a truck at a time, managing and running those fleets and...
as well as the facilities, the storage facilities and things you see when you pass through an old town or cities where you find all the petroleum products stored. And then I ultimately moved on to what I called back then the ultimate glass ceiling.
breaking position, you know, because back then we talked a lot about that invisible barrier for women, you know, and that invisible barrier for, for, uh, people of color. And I finally got to break that one, which was being a C-suite position and not just an entry level sweet, sweet, but a nice C-suite position, but also in an actual line operating role where I was responsible for, you know, your top line sales.
Chris Hall (21:05)
you
Gladys DeClouet (21:29)
and the expenses and the bottom line profit of an entire business division. I was a division, the Cleveland division manager position at BP. And so that was my final position in the oil industry before I got recruited into the restaurant industry.
Chris Hall (21:34)
Mm-hmm.
Can you?
Can you let people know what a C-suite executive is in case they don't know?
Gladys DeClouet (21:50)
It is, wow, so if I'm gonna use the term so often, you don't know how to stop and explain it. it is, it's reaching a certain level in corporate America where you are, you're not in middle management or certain kind of management.
you're in a, what they call, an executive level in the company where you are truly of a significant responsibility level in that company and part of the leadership, part of the upper leadership of that company.
Chris Hall (22:23)
Okay, that's great. Yeah. And so when you got your, you became a C-suite executive about how long were you doing that before you got recruited away? Okay. Yeah. And it's funny. was, that was one of my questions I was going to ask as well as like, how did you go from oil to food? And it's like, it had to be recruiting and it had to be somebody was like this lady, we got to get her over here.
Gladys DeClouet (22:31)
three years.
Yeah, I was approached by a recruiter. And that's one of those kind of interesting stories because I was approached by recruiters all the time. And I was always saying, my career is doing great. I'm not interested. And they say timing is everything. And this person called me in the middle of winter. And I'm living in Cleveland, Ohio on a dreary, dark day and says that I have this company.
Chris Hall (23:06)
Okay
Gladys DeClouet (23:11)
in San Diego, California, who would like to talk to you? And I'm like, no, I'm not interested. She's like, just think about it. Why pass up a trip just to go visit in beautiful sunny San Diego right now? You should at least go talk to people, right? And my husband said the same thing. was like, no, go down there and at least talk to them.
Chris Hall (23:22)
Right?
Gladys DeClouet (23:31)
yeah, absolutely. And matter of fact,
he had been kind of really for years kind of pushing to say, you know, can't we find something in Southern California? But it was really interesting, but you know, it was so expensive to live in Southern California and you needed to have all the right circumstances, the right salary, the right offer, the right whatever. And, you know, and totally.
Chris Hall (23:41)
nice.
Gladys DeClouet (23:55)
It just, it came along and everything was right about it. And, you know, you could maintain your lifestyle with such and, know, the offer was really great. And, and I ended up moving there, but actually there was some logic though, in case you're, I mean, there was some logic, I think to how I got on the radar of them. And that is when I was telling you about that last position I was in as a division manager and I was responsible for all channels of trade.
Well, obviously one of the biggest channels of trade is retail. So that means the gas stations, which meant convenience stores. And this was the, you know, early nineties, well, mid nineties. And so BP were, you know, one of the companies or the company leading the way at that time for what's now the norm. But back then it was a big deal.
in actually rolling out for the first time these huge convenience stores where we had fresh food and bakeries and delis and that kind of stuff in these large square foot convenience stores. We calling them BP Express back then. And we rolled it out in my division. That was our first rollout in the company. And then we started, we were just doing so well with it until the next thing you know.
We were doing co-branded deals with McDonald's and Burger King's in our convenience stores. And so this is just a guess on my part, but that maybe somewhere in there is how I end up.
Chris Hall (25:08)
Right.
So you're the one that did that. Alright.
Yeah, what?
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. You were basically working in convenience food. So, and plus your name was probably being tossed around because you're working with co-branding deals with McDonald's and Burger King. So yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Gladys DeClouet (25:22)
Right, right, right.
So
I would imagine that that's kind of how it happened. know, even though our worlds are kind of really different. And I know when I went to Jack in the Box, they had never had anyone, they were a company that was truly about, you know, history. People there worked there, lived their whole careers there. They didn't hire from outside of that industry or outside of that company. And
So I was like this really strange person for them at first. And I know when I went down for the interview, my would-be boss was saying to me, said, know, I mean, would you be comfortable? What do you think you can make that transition, you know, from oil to, you know, this, to the big money oil business, to the small margin type of a restaurant business?
you know, and we're just so different. And, you know, and I, and I share it with him. I said, you know, but in actuality, it's not really that different. You know, it's, it's running the business. It's the same thing. said, I'm going to achieve my goals here through people and through people, processes and procedures. That same thing in the oil industry, the same thing in the food industry.
You know, I said, right now today, say my product happens to be gasoline and Twinkies and yours is hamburgers and fries. But it's still the people that I'm going to get the work done through. And so if you know how to lead and, you know, and manage people and you understand business and the economics and finance of business, it's the same thing, you know? And I could see that little light bulb go off in him and he was like.
Chris Hall (26:49)
Yeah.
Gladys DeClouet (27:06)
She's absolutely right. think this deal is sealed. ⁓
Chris Hall (27:12)
Yeah,
that's fun. And then what did you do for Jack in the Box? Like what was your title there?
Gladys DeClouet (27:18)
When I went to Jack in the Box, my first position there was the regional vice president for the Los Angeles region. That was their big prolific, you their largest region. And then I quickly got promoted up and became vice president of operations at Jack in Box. And then I later...
Chris Hall (27:39)
Okay. Wow.
Gladys DeClouet (27:42)
went to Burger King, got recruited by Burger King into Miami. That's what finally brought me back in my life back to Florida, because I was born in Northern Florida, but I hadn't been back to Florida since high school.
Chris Hall (27:54)
Is that where Burger King's headquarters is in Florida? okay. Okay. And then after you retired, you decided to stick around? That's great.
Gladys DeClouet (27:55)
Yes, Miami.
Yes,
yeah, I am just a nice, hot weather, tropical weather person. I love the tropical weather. And if you're going to live in the United States and live in tropical weather, you're going to be in South Florida. So once I was here, I think it was impossible to get me out of South Florida again.
Chris Hall (28:14)
Hahaha
Right?
So when you were at Jack in the Box, there more ⁓ challenges with diversity, know, issues like that, or was Jack in Box fairly diversified when you got there?
Gladys DeClouet (28:32)
It was
The culture at Jack in the Box was...
I would say was definitely less British culture. was more, it felt like more of a family, a little more comfortable type of a culture at Jack in the Box. It also was a smaller company. mean, it was still a multi-billion dollar company, but at the time, the BP I was coming from back in 1998 was,
like, you know, $500 billion type company, you know what mean? they, the, it wasn't so, bureaucratic. Yes, that's what I liked about Jack in the Box. There was less bureaucracy and, you know, and a little bit more informalness to the culture at Jack in the Box compared to coming from BP. But the challenges that I faced when I got to Jack in the Box were,
Chris Hall (29:08)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Gladys DeClouet (29:30)
which is why they had been looking this position when they brought me in as the regional vice president of Los Angeles. They had been trying to fill that position for two years, but they just hadn't found the right person, they said. And the thing about it was it was really a great, I guess, kind of like perfect opportunity meeting the right person in terms of leadership style.
and taking things to the next level. Because it was a different challenge than say later I'll you about, I mean, like at Burger King. They had, Los Angeles region had the experience. They had people and manage, you know, they had restaurant managers and above restaurant leaders, people with tons of experience, but they weren't engaged or motivated.
And, you know, so when they brought me on, you know, I had everybody at headquarters and human resources and the, you know, my boss and everybody saying, ⁓ you're going to have to go in there and just clear out all this dead wood and, you know, just try to bring on your new leadership team and region and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it turned out that was not what I did when I went in there and,
You know, and we went in eight in, I was only that in that job for 18 months and then 18 months time, we not only rolled out, we grew 60 % new restaurants on the ground in the region. The sales went up double digits. The, the team was so re invigorated and re energized and I didn't get rid of any of these key people they were talking about.
Chris Hall (30:55)
Wow.
Gladys DeClouet (31:08)
That was, to me, that was just crazy to let that kind of knowledge and experience go. Instead, what I, you know, got to know each person, you know, when I first came in, I did this whole unboarding thing. But anyway, I talked to each person and tried to understand, you know, what did they see as opportunities? How could I help them? What was the problems, this and that? And by the time I got it all figured out, what I realized is that...
People just, they needed some appreciation for all the value they brought and the things that they had done. They needed to be re-energized and given new opportunities. I put people into new stretch assignments and into new roles and rolled out new big projects, new, to help the system, the whole,
company system, rolled out some new programs and things, put these people in charge. People, they're saying, they're just so whatever they need to go. Those people just hadn't been challenged in a long time. They hadn't been given something exciting to do. They didn't have someone who had believed in them in a while. those kinds of things. So someone who would actually involve them.
Chris Hall (32:12)
Mm-hmm.
Gladys DeClouet (32:24)
in the process of things, involved them in decisions, involved them in leading things and those kinds of things. We had a lot that we were trying to get done, man, in a short period of time. And I called them, I went to the people who were there and gave them the opportunity and they didn't let me down, man.
We went to top performing and everything, everything on the report card, we were top performers in, know, the profits, the sales, everything is all of that as well, you know, and all the new brand reinvention we were rolling out and all these things.
Chris Hall (32:49)
Hmm.
Gladys DeClouet (33:04)
But it was just about having a different style of leadership and knowing how to engage with people on the level of what connects with them, what it is they needed as individuals. Everybody that need the same thing, you know?
Chris Hall (33:07)
Mm.
Yeah.
Now you were with them for 18 months, you said?
Gladys DeClouet (33:25)
No, I was in that first role for 18 months. And then, yeah, and then when I got promoted up, of course, I replaced myself in that position because that position was going to be reporting to me with someone else that I knew would maintain that same teamwork culture that I had created. That was probably a good word, was really created a team culture there. One where everybody, you know, because you say,
Chris Hall (33:27)
got it. Okay. Okay, got it.
Gladys DeClouet (33:52)
How can you roll out, how can you build in 18 months time, throw another 72 restaurants on the ground in the same place where you already have these other ones? And not only do you make all the money on the new ones, but even the existing ones, instead of being cannibalized and sales stealing from them, instead they even went up double digits and wonder how do you do that? How do you get all the people to supply and run these restaurants? You do that.
by all of these other people working together as a team, right? Each restaurant is out there supporting another restaurant. They're grooving and building the people for the next guy. there are all these, you know, that type of a teamwork atmosphere. And when they see someone struggling, you know, before you'd see someone struggle, you just kind of look and laugh and say, well.
But now we're in an environment, and they saw someone struggle, The guy next door was raising his hand. How can I help you? We're here. I'm going to send my people over. That kind of environment.
Chris Hall (34:52)
Mm-hmm.
That's so cool.
That is such a neat story because I think that gets lost in corporate culture. think, you know what I mean? I worked for another finance company for quite a while. And one of the things that was really neat about them was that when they brought somebody new in, there would almost be a bunch of people who had been doing it for five, 10, 15 years.
who would be like, hey, when you have a question, call me. You know what mean? You're going to have questions, call me. And just having that support system, again, not having as an employee, you don't want to call the one at her number and talk to somebody in HR. You want to talk to somebody that's doing what you're doing. So I love that. That's really cool that you built that culture for them. It's still extremely rare. I think even now, it's still extremely rare to have.
Gladys DeClouet (35:33)
Right, try it.
Yeah, I knew.
Chris Hall (35:42)
a corporate culture that is like, let's help everybody get better. know, rising tide floats all boats.
Gladys DeClouet (35:47)
Yeah, yeah. it was interesting. I even created a new level of position in the company to help people move up in the organization to be able to take on more responsibility. another problem, and as I said, as I stayed with Jack in the Box, guess, almost 10 years, nine years.
And, you know, so I got to do a lot of things as, you know, the vice president of operations. And, you know, one of the things you had, you struggling is, you you reach that point, the way the company was structured where you have people who are really, really good at their level. say maybe an area they're really good.
I'll use the example of a restaurant manager level, a general manager level, but they don't have the experience and they're not capable to jump to an area manager level where say they run 20 restaurants. They don't know how to go from one restaurant to 20 restaurants at one time without failing. It's that type of a scenario. so, you know, created some development positions for people to fill a pipeline where you gave them six to eight and
Chris Hall (36:45)
Mm-hmm.
Gladys DeClouet (36:56)
Let them get their feet, let them learn, understand what they're doing, then move them up to take on more, or assign them to work with senior person who could help develop them and teach them and coach them and that kind of a thing. helped, expanding the diversity of things helped.
Chris Hall (37:10)
Yeah.
Gladys DeClouet (37:17)
Because in that world, the restaurant world is one of the most diverse worlds you're going to find in terms of, one, the consumers you're serving as customers, and then the people who are working in that industry. And yet, we weren't having the success at all in the diversity of people moving up in the company. And that would create a lot of bad morale for people.
Chris Hall (37:37)
you
Gladys DeClouet (37:43)
or people not being as committed to the company and giving all that they could because they didn't see these things happening. by doing things like creating development positions to help people be able to transition successfully from one level to the other was something that was like say of a great benefit. And then they could see that change and see people succeeding.
Chris Hall (37:52)
Mm-hmm.
Gladys DeClouet (38:11)
or just opening up, just changing some of the norms of how we did things. You know, we always had people tested by psychologists to, people's intellectual levels and their personality, whatever, are they capable of being leaders of certain levels in the company? And one of the things, issues with that was we had a lot of people, English was a second language and these people did not do well.
on those kinds of tests. But yet I'm watching them on the ground, run circles around people, but they couldn't, you when you send them to the doc, as they call them, you send them to the doc, they didn't score well. And, you know, and it's like, at some point you had to say, am I just going to...
Chris Hall (38:41)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Gladys DeClouet (38:54)
continue to accept that none of these people are good enough when you're watching what they're doing on the ground because we have this one test that we're saying, oops, but they're not scoring well on it. And, you know, so I took a couple of chances with that and with people that I know, I'm seeing what they can do and, know, man, open the door and they just blew the world away, you know.
You know what? And right now, of those guys, one of the, one of the, one of the guys, the first one that I did that with, not only did he go on to move up, you know, area manager rank, director rank, he went on to become a franchisee and is like the largest franchisee they have with hundreds and hundreds of restaurants and stuff, you know? Um, but you know, you just have to be willing.
Chris Hall (39:41)
I love it.
Gladys DeClouet (39:47)
to do some things a little differently than we've just always done, you know? This is what we've
Chris Hall (39:52)
Yeah, I'm so grateful
that you built an entire culture of advocating for people and that you were able to, I mean, in essence, really, you changed that man's life. So, I mean, like, I mean, you can imagine that if you didn't have someone advocating for him, that he might still just be a general manager at one store. And, ⁓ you know, now he has. Yeah, because you believed in him, because you saw what he was doing.
Gladys DeClouet (40:11)
Right. And just because you know.
Chris Hall (40:16)
You advocated for him. He got to move up and now he's really successful. And in my hopes, my guess is because he had you, that he's that same person for other people and he's advocating for them.
Gladys DeClouet (40:27)
Right. And yes,
hopefully, hopefully so. Hopefully he, know, and I'm sure he is, you know, paying that forward. And, you know, and he wasn't the only person. There was several other people and women and things, you know, when Loman had been with the company 30 years and totally overlooked. And then she ended up, you know, ended up being senior vice president in the company, you know. So it's, yeah.
Chris Hall (40:53)
I think it's cool, ⁓ obviously I definitely want to talk about your book too. what I think is cool about your story that I'm kind of getting from this is you broke barriers, which is very cool in its own right. I mean, in its own dynamic is really cool. But you didn't just do it for yourself. You literally were like, no, I'm going to reach down and pull people up with me.
And I think that's the real beauty of your story is that you have taken your, you took your licks and then you used it so that you could like help other people move up without taking their licks. And I think that's a really neat story that's unraveled here today. So, but tell me, go ahead. Sorry.
Gladys DeClouet (41:34)
I, yeah, I,
no, I just say I did have a, you know, a couple of mentors in my life when I was at BP and I really appreciated the things they taught me and the things they did for me. And yeah, and so as soon as I began to get in leadership positions and what have you, I very much wanted to do just what you were saying.
I wanted to do for others what I felt they did for me, you know, and to continue that. I still to this day, even retirement, I still try to coach and mentor and help develop people, you know, to enhance opportunities for them.
Chris Hall (42:11)
That's great. So what made you decide to write a book?
Gladys DeClouet (42:14)
You know, I think A layered Life is a, is a, is a, it's an inspirational story of resilience.
courage, faith, and leadership. And it recounts, obviously, it recounts my personal as well as professional. Because most people, I started out trying to do professional and discovered you just can't separate the world. So it recounts my personal and professional experiences from being born into desegregation, before women's rights movements in the deep south.
resources were few, you know, and moving on to become that first female engineer offshore, and then moving on through leadership in a couple of industries. But what I think is so what adds a lot of value to the book is that it's an extraordinary journey, really just through the complexity, the complexity of race, gender, ambition, personal loss. And it's not just
marked by hardship. It includes joy, self-belief, and as you pointed out, that unwavering commitment to try to help other people succeed. And I think what it does is it gets people to reflect on their own life. You begin to reflect on your own values. You begin to reflect on the impact that you're making on the world around you in reading my story. So it was my hope in writing the story that to try to...
inspire and empower future leaders and all people, but particularly people who may feel unseen or underestimated and to allow as many people, because I've always tried to mentor, but you can only touch so many people. So was hoping maybe a book would allow as many people as possible or many more people.
to actually benefit from my lifetime of lessons learned, And hardships endured and, you know, great experiences. And also, I must admit, one of the motivations for me was to allow girls, anybody who's gonna, who wanna travel a path, a new path,
to know someone who's traveled that path before them and know how I dealt with some of the challenges and sacrifices that it's going to take if they're going to do that. And lastly, to spark frankly, some meaningful conversation around resilience, inclusive leadership, the value of diversity, mental and physical wellbeing, which is something very important to me in life.
and just life balance because sometimes I think that just gets lost in our massive pursuit of success and career.
Chris Hall (44:52)
I'm so grateful that you mentioned the balance of you know, because one of the reasons I call this the healthy wealth experience is because I feel the same way that you do I feel like people pursue wealth and success and and admiration and you know goals and stuff like that and then it's usually one of those situations where like not usually but they can be where people pursue it so hard that they forget about their health
And then they get to this point where they've got this money, but they don't actually have like a quality of life to go with it. What did you do personally to kind of like make sure that you stayed, you know, as healthy as you could in these situations?
Gladys DeClouet (45:27)
I was really serious about trying to maintain my health because I've mentioned to you, I've lost a lot of loved ones and I have a family history that was just not good of people not making it out of their 40s. My mother's siblings didn't make it out of their 40s. I had four siblings who didn't make it out of their 40s. And so I was really kind of serious about.
you know, taking care of my health. I had to find, the thing is consistency, okay? You have to be consistent, consistent, consistent and have some discipline. So I had to find what worked, find time in my day and schedule that it could work for me to commit to going to.
my workouts, right? And I guess I've always been, you know, I grew up a cheerleader, right? I was cheerleader, you know, young, high school, college, that kind of thing. And I've never stopped working out, but so I tend to do the gym as my thing. You know, yeah, so I'm kind of a gym person. And, you know, there were times when I did it at lunch in my career when it could work for me to do it at lunch. There were times when
You know, before I had children, I could do it afterward. That, that, that could, that worked for me. But then, you know, there reached times that as a mother with children, and then as I had reached these executive levels and I was traveling and demands were really tough until this became my pattern, which was so unlike me because my natural body clock is not this, but my pattern became, I had to get up and do it.
before anybody else in my house was ever awake. Gladys was up, rolled out of bed and just rolled straight into her gym clothes and did her thing at around five, 5.30 in the morning so that I can get back, shower and get on with my day. ⁓ And I did that.
Chris Hall (47:13)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Gladys DeClouet (47:31)
Yeah, up until I retired. And even when I'm traveling on the road, the first thing I put in my suitcase are those gym shoes and those gym clothes. And even in the hotel, I roll out of bed, I go down to that gym, get dressed, I mean, do my thing, and then come back and get dressed and show up for whatever the meeting I have to be at or whatever I'm doing. And I stayed consistent with that, you know, and eating, always trying to, you know.
Chris Hall (47:48)
in
Gladys DeClouet (47:57)
try to eat right and all that stuff, work really hard to keep the weight within a certain, know, band, you know, cause the, you go through, you know, we, we, we, we have periods where you may be overindulged a little bit, but I've always kept, you know, believe in if I can keep everything within that three or four pounds, then I can always deal with it. You know, if I let it get outside of that, now I have this massive issue to deal with. So.
Chris Hall (48:03)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Right.
Right.
Gladys DeClouet (48:23)
Um, you know, stuff like that and then mental health. That's, and that's the thing that I've always tried to get people understand. And believe it or not, I have impacted so many people who have become marathon runners, you know, who have lost one and a half times their sides and all kinds of things like this, because, um, they, they watch me and listen to the things that I would say and I would do, but.
I believe if you start, if people would just commit and start doing it, what you discover is this. It helps your mind so much. It helps clear that your mental state, prepares that mental state for the day before you get into that circus of a business day. And you feel good. And when you don't do it, you feel bad. You know what I'm saying? If you can get yourself to the point of feeling like,
Chris Hall (49:07)
Right? Right?
Gladys DeClouet (49:16)
man, if I don't do this, you know, I don't feel good, then you know you're in the right place, you know, you see the positiveness in what you're doing.
Chris Hall (49:26)
I think the points that I took out of that that I were really cool was like, discipline is always going to beat motivation. You know what I mean? Like you made it a practice to get it in. Wherever you need to get it in, however you need to adjust your schedule, you got it in. And I feel like discipline outlasts motivation so long. Because we're going into the holidays, so usually typically people will overindulge a little bit.
And then, know, first the year is the big kick to get back to the gym and stuff like that. But that's motivation. You know, we're trying to like ramp off of motivation and just never last. And that's why if you go to the gym in February, it's the same size as it was in November. You know, all those all those motivated people are, you know, back to their old habits. So I love the discipline side of that. That was really good. And then the second part was I really do. I think that you're on to something with the idea that if you do take care of your physical health,
Gladys DeClouet (50:06)
No, no, no.
Chris Hall (50:20)
It really leads to your mental health. really leads to being able to persevere in the situations that you've been in. know what I mean? Because when you work out, your blood pumps, and your blood pumps into your brain, and it makes you smarter, and it makes you more mentally agile and stuff like that. So I think that's important to note as well, is that when you're facing adversity, if you've got your workout in, it's way easier to face that adversity. So I love that.
Gladys DeClouet (50:44)
And you need stamina to be honest, know, executive life requires stamina. And so, you know, being in good physical shape helps you, physical and mental shape helps you with that stamina. ⁓
Chris Hall (50:50)
Yeah.
I
love that. I love that. Very cool. is there anything we didn't talk about that you would like to talk about?
Gladys DeClouet (51:03)
yeah, you're right, we did not get into Burger King, but it was very similar to the life at Jack in the Box, yeah. Just at an even higher level, was on the global executive team there at Burger King, and obviously a much bigger global company, but it was about the same.
Chris Hall (51:20)
Right.
Gladys DeClouet (51:24)
I think, can we talk about And we touched on integrity a little bit, because that is also one just my key messages for people, and particularly young people, because I hope to help and inspire people who are entering this whole work world and professional world and people who are trying to climb the ladder. in today's world, I just think they see so much of the wrong things.
Chris Hall (51:50)
Mm-hmm.
Gladys DeClouet (51:51)
They see so many examples of, you know, the dishonesty, unethical behaviors and all sorts of things. And that, you know, you can, you can win. You can lead and you can win with integrity. You don't have to be a dishonest person, be unethical and climb over other people.
Chris Hall (52:08)
you
Gladys DeClouet (52:16)
and stab other people in the back to succeed.
But yeah, it is. And it's from the book and obviously because it's my belief and from my life. that is, you know, you know, I always say first and foremost, live and win with integrity. Secondly, life is layered and use every challenge as a stepping stone. And then leadership.
should be inclusive and inspirational, not demoralized. lastly, didn't quite really, well, we kind of touched on this, that being a black female pioneer was really so much bigger than just my individual success. It really, it was about.
It opened the doors for the many others who would follow behind. And it continued to raise that platform for them to go further and achieve even higher successes. And I think that's the most wonderful thing about
Chris Hall (53:13)
I I think that is absolutely the take home message is like that you lived an extraordinary life, but you brought people with you. And that's, know, we live in a world where a lot of people are very selfishly motivated and you definitely were not. So I really appreciate your time. I think it's been excellent talking to you. I will put a link to purchase the book in the description.
Is there any do you want to do you have like a website where we could have people contact you if they want to?
Gladys DeClouet (53:42)
It's www.gladysdeepluette.com.
Chris Hall (53:45)
Yeah, I'm sure that I do have it. I just didn't have it right in front of me.
Gladys DeClouet (53:47)
Yeah, so that's my
website. even on the website, it even has the links to where you can buy the book too, like Amazon, Mars, whatever, the links are there. And yeah, and that's pretty simple too. You can buy it any place books are sold, really. And definitely every online retail has it.
Chris Hall (53:54)
good.
Have you thought about doing ⁓ some public speaking or some like ⁓ individual one-on-one coaching?
Gladys DeClouet (54:09)
That is what I am now trying to figure out how to... I'm discovering that it seems to be kind of a... Yeah, complicated word. I'm trying to figure out how to best...
maneuver and do that because I would like to do that. I would like to continue to mentor and speak. I, yeah, so I'm trying to figure out how to actually get that done, ⁓ you know, in today's world. You know, it's kind of interesting. I...
Chris Hall (54:27)
you would be an excellent coach.
Well,
I feel like you would be such an excellent coach. And I mean, the book obviously is a phenomenal way to mentor lots of people. But I think that you'd be excellent one on one with people as well. Off the air, I'll give you some kind of resources that I've used as someone who's hired coaches and stuff. I can give you some resources, and maybe that'll get you started. yeah, I feel like there's probably people listening right now who are like, man, I would love to talk to her.
Gladys DeClouet (54:58)
Yeah, I would really appreciate that.
Yeah, I really would appreciate any resources you can share because right now that is actually what I am, you know, starting to try to figure out how to put together a plan for.
Chris Hall (55:13)
Okay, great. Yeah, well, we'll definitely talk about it off the air. All right. Thank you guys so much for listening. Please leave comments, hit the like button, all those good things that send the beautiful algorithm the message that you enjoy this and you want more of it. Thank you so much to Gladys for being our guest today. You have a very good inspirational story about how you not only persevered, but you brought people with you. And I think that's really cool.
very excited to have you on the show and thank you so much for your time.
Gladys DeClouet (55:40)
Thank you.
Chris Hall (55:41)
Alright you guys, alright everybody have a great day and we'll see you on the next show.