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The US Expansion Series is a podcast on how to successfully expand your business to the US market. This first season hosts Fleur & Flora of TABS will discuss the legal landscape, the risk of liabilities, pitching to US investors and the expansion journeys of Tony Chocolonely, ChannelEngine and the Belgian Boys. The goal of this podcast is to provide companies with the tools and guidance for those interested in expanding to the US market.
Need help setting up your business in the US? Find us on www.tabsinc.com
Welcome to The US expansion series, the podcast where you can learn about successfully expanding to and scaling your business in The US market. My name is Fleur. My name is Flora. And in every episode, we dive into a different aspect of successful market expansion. Flora, how are you today?
Speaker 1:I'm doing well. Thanks. We received so many positive messages after our first episode with David Beckett. I'm very happy and excited for the second episode. How are you feeling?
Speaker 2:I feel the same way, actually. I'm not gonna lie. It was a bit nerve wracking, but I'm very excited for what's to come, including today's episodes because we had the pleasure to talk to Jordi Vermeer from Channel Engine. And before we get started, is there anything we want to point out to listeners?
Speaker 1:I think it was very fascinating to get more insights into how massive the e commerce industry is in The US, which is something that I kind of knew, of course. But I didn't realize that the numbers were actually this high, which also means that there is a lot of opportunity for European e commerce companies to grow and scale their business in The US. And I think it's great that Jordi shares his tips both on the expansion journey of Channel Engine and also his knowledge and the do's and don'ts
Speaker 2:for expanding to The US as an e commerce company. Well, without further ado, let's dive in. Thanks so much for taking the time to be on our podcast today. Yeah. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:And we thought you were a perfect guest because we looked at your resume and, you know, you have quite some experience previously at Sana Commerce and currently as the channel engine VP Revenue North America.
Speaker 3:Correct. Yeah. Thank you.
Speaker 2:So before we, you know, dive in, please introduce yourself, tell us a bit more about what you do.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Of course. Yeah. And also, I'm honored to be here. Thank you for guys for inviting me.
Speaker 3:I'm having I had a lot of joy and and pleasure to work with you guys at Tops in in your office, but also the services you guys provide. So thank you for that. In the past few years, I've worked with with multiple. So the main two tech companies I work with were Sana Commerce and and Channel Engine. I grew in Sana Commerce, grew from hiring, developing, building European tech or sales teams and started doing that also in The United States.
Speaker 3:Sana was a little bit further established before I joined there or in North America. But that experience was for me a very good foundation to take the leap and a step towards channel channel engine, where I'm now responsible for the build. So I yeah. I was the first hire basically in the region and build it now from I think we have around 15 people locally. I'll say the most interesting part is I I am a builder and I love challenges.
Speaker 3:And if someone tells me I can't do it, then I I like to prove them differently. So that's that's, I think, a little bit about myself. I don't know if you wanna
Speaker 2:know other things about me, but
Speaker 1:Yeah. Thanks. It's great to have you today, and I think that's exactly already what you're mentioning. That's what I'm very interested in. You were hired to lead The US expansion.
Speaker 1:You mentioned that you're a builder and you rented an office in the beginning at TEP. So we saw you working very hard every day. But I'm very curious, like, where did you start? So you were ahead of The US expansion and then what?
Speaker 3:Well, it started with and I hope I'm humble enough for that, but just doing sales, you know, like going after the market, going after partners to collaborate with, figuring out what the market needed, to clients, prospects and and, you know, potential colleagues to see what was needed in order to to do that expansion. Of course, I had a good understanding of cultural differences and and the ecommerce landscape because of my background in China commerce. Yeah. But it was definitely a step towards, yeah, not having built something from scratch. So that was, yeah, that was a very fun experience.
Speaker 1:And was there also initial research phase where you did market research or you tested a product market fit in The US or you went straight to the action phase?
Speaker 3:There was a slight research phase. I think it was even done before I joined. We all know the the how large The US economy is, and and I'm I'm pretty sure we're gonna talk about it a little bit later. But we we knew that already with existing clients that we have. Right?
Speaker 3:We were servicing some clients that had the plans to go to US or they were actually US based and they were planning to go to us in in Europe. So we knew that. And we saw that the biggest unique identifier we could be across our our competition was that global expansion or being part of the trend of globalization for these brands and retailers.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's not only The US. Channel engine is also expanding throughout the world quite rapidly. Is the expansion strategy very similar in a different countries or were there things very specific to The US markets in the expansion strategy here?
Speaker 3:So I think there is a few markets where we see so Channel Engine is a marketplace integration platform where we facilitate for brands through a single connection with Channel Engine. We facilitate the connections with all these online marketplaces. Sometimes also social channels and and click advertise channels, we'll get into later. But the big thing is some markets, we see the marketplaces grow very fast. So we we've seen this all in The Netherlands or in Europe happening, right, with bol.com and and then Amazon and other markets in in Germany where they've auto and and Kaufland.
Speaker 3:France, have FNOC, CDiscount. And that whole development we started seeing also in other markets, especially in The US where Amazon was the leading one, but it was also the only one. And now a lot of others are coming up in the market. And we saw that also happening in in places like Southeast Asia, a very big marketplace ecommerce market. And Australia, New Zealand is is a place where that is and now it's about to happen in Dubai as well.
Speaker 3:I would say the only one we're not in that active or two is China, which is a very vast they're further than anywhere else, so it's hard for us to compete or to to be active there. It was Latin America because it's such a vast thing we have to gather more resources for to to be ready for a market like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it's also quite a natural growth where you're following the marketplaces
Speaker 3:in And clients. And the clients because they're like, hey, I I wanna expand to the North America or I wanna expand to Australia. Do you have anything for that? Right? And then with those clients, we can expand further.
Speaker 3:This is first what we did in Europe. So in Europe, was from The Netherlands. It's like, oh, I wanna sell in Germany and I wanna sell in in France and then, you know, later to Poland. And so, yeah, it went further and further like that.
Speaker 2:I'm curious. So looking back at the market expansion in general, what would you say were the main challenges for General Engine and like, what have you learned? Or maybe there are challenges that you're still facing?
Speaker 3:Well, first of all, the challenge for a business like ours, but any business is to you people are afraid of North America. We're talking specifically about The US, I presume so. People are a little bit afraid of this market because it's so big and the legal repercussions and the, you know, everything you have to follow the rules, but it's different because the rules here, there are many, but some rules are really important and some rules are actually just there to not be necessarily followed. So it's it's very tough to make that estimation. Therefore, setting up a business and a business entity is crucial.
Speaker 3:And and, again, you guys helped us perfectly with this, and that was seamless. So I I would definitely say don't try to do that yourself. I knew that from others already, and you guys have done it also for Sana Commerce and a few other businesses. So I knew that, and and it's don't try to vent that wheel yourself. If if there's a company like you guys, just just not to sell you guys, but it's it really works.
Speaker 3:Secondary, the prioritization of product was a bit of a struggle, and I think that's for every also tech company
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:The case and maybe even also for brands. But it's The US market has a different need or a different structure. Right? With us, it was the tax and how the taxes are calculated or some pieces or some of the channels, right, that we needed to onboard Walmart. And, yeah, that's a different type of channel.
Speaker 3:And and we think then we can tell them how to set up their legal agreement. But, of course, Walmart is gonna tell you this is the agreement. Take it or leave it. You know? So there was there was some struggles there.
Speaker 3:The biggest one is you you have to convince your management team from a strategic perspective as opposed to here's what the clients want from a from a product expansion. A few other things like finding the right talent and understanding how you how they're how they should be compensated, especially salespeople. Right? It's much more aggressive with the commission plans. You need to fit your pricing model to the market.
Speaker 3:That, of course, is a lot of testing, so that's what I did as well in the start. And typically, you price a little bit higher in North America because your cost is also some higher in North America, especially US. Growing brands presence, my biggest advice there is go to events.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Right? That's it's a I would say we have a pretty good, honest way of dealing with people. So them seeing you at every single event now has been like, oh, I see you guys everywhere. You guys are amazing, but they don't really know exactly how we're doing with these deals everywhere, so we're amazing. Growing inbounds on the website, of course, it's it's it's it's tremendous making sure that the languages and and the traffic, SEO, SEO, like, all all the conversions, it's that's a that's a big piece.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, I could go on and on, of course. There's a lot of objections from the market we we need to face.
Speaker 2:Is there one thing that you might have underestimated or a mistake you're like, I need to fix this?
Speaker 3:I think in Europe, we were growing very naturally. Mhmm. We didn't have to do outbound. We were just, you know, client referrals. Everyone loved us.
Speaker 3:So that was kinda my assumption as well going into this. I knew it was gonna be hardworking, but now we saw, like, oh, by that, you know, it's it's it's a little bit more than that. Our biggest competitor in Europe where we were winning a lot, that it's a American company, and they're probably trained it, but Mhmm. We were winning most of them in Europe. But that was because that was our turf.
Speaker 3:And now we come to their turf. Right. And that was that was something, yeah, some more challenges. And not having some really good local clients that work with you on the products, that work with you as a referral was sometimes challenging.
Speaker 2:And so you've been in New York for how many years? Four?
Speaker 3:So that's a that's an interesting story. I came here around April 2019.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:I stayed here for two years for Sana Commerce. Then I switched to channel engine, and then our visa or the e e two visa dictates you have to go back and get a new visa. And I want to go the official route to not have any any challenges. Issues.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That might have been the
Speaker 3:biggest challenge for me personally, but also from our company. Right? Because you need a lot of documents. And I I know you guys helped with it, but still there's there's so much to go on. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then I had to wait a year to get it. Yes. And that was very challenging because I I couldn't be located here. Right. So I wasn't here for a year and a half.
Speaker 3:It did give me the opportunity to, one, work from our headquarters for four or five months. Okay. And it was really good to connect with all the local managers and the teams and people, management, and that was really good for my relationship. Mhmm. Because later, you're the one that has to kick kick in open doors and and and basically be pretty aggressive about, yeah, I need these things to to fix my market.
Speaker 3:And from a personal perspective, I I've been in Mexico then for seven months surfing. So I I honestly, I I I
Speaker 2:think I remember you working for I remember you working from Mexico Mexico, I think, with the surfboards in the background. Correct. So looking back might have been just worked out fine.
Speaker 3:I wanted to take a sabbatical Right. At some point, and this was like a work sabbatical, I I would say, and and I very much enjoyed it. I'm happy to be back though. So
Speaker 2:Yeah. We're we're very happy that you're back too. I was just wondering because I'm always curious, well, both of us are in regards to cultural differences and we happen to all be Dutch, but did you have or do you still face certain, yeah, differences that you notice in regards to cultural differences, I guess?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, again, we can do an episode about this as well. But in a in a nutshell, the most obvious thing is Dutch are direct. You see this in this conversation, but we're we're very direct. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And it's not necessarily a bad thing because Americans don't like BS. Right? So it's you don't you don't you know, you're cutting to the chase. You tell them what they're up for and and you're honest. And actually, therefore, they they like doing business with with our culture.
Speaker 3:It is sometimes important to make sure from a technical perspective specifically to not always say, no, that's not possible, but give a little bit more context to it or say like, hey. Well, that's a that might be a challenge. Let us take a look at it. And then, of course, eventually, you have to tell them that's that's gonna be a challenge. But, yeah, no is a very hard no for them.
Speaker 3:Other things are they're more hierarchical in in US, and they expect fast responses. And they're more financially driven. They have higher turnover. But this all can be downsides, but it can also be opportunities. And I I always explain this to my colleagues as an opportunity.
Speaker 3:Right? Because think about those a combination of those four elements, it can show if you are able to show the financial, the prospect, or the ROI of your platform to the right person in the organization, it can go really, really fast in terms of decision. We saw that at Sana Commerce. Right? Decision making was faster, but also now in China, I see the same.
Speaker 3:It can also be turned around differently. Right? So we also had people that signed, and then someone else came in, and they're like, oh, no. We quit the project. But, therefore, you have to sometimes resell it a little bit.
Speaker 2:Well, and it would be great for you as like a team leader to sort of find that balance maybe of like, you know, you have your European background, but then also you wanna make the best of life here in America, I think.
Speaker 3:No. I love finding that balance. Right. That's a
Speaker 2:good Because you're saying it could be a bad thing like the turnover time or, you know, how they expect you to answer much faster than in comparison to like Europe.
Speaker 3:Especially, that fast response is something so small, but it is also tough because the colleagues in Europe, they're in a different time zone. Right?
Speaker 2:Correct. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You have to make sure that they realize that and the people that are going to have to be involved in those projects from Europe. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:They need to also have some dedication of evening or at least look
Speaker 3:at the email sometimes in the evening.
Speaker 2:That awareness.
Speaker 3:I'm not the biggest fan that people work twenty four hours a day. So No. I would say, like, start later. Right? I I I typically worked from eleven till nine or something in The Netherlands when I was working from there, and that worked that worked fine for me.
Speaker 3:So
Speaker 1:And do you notice are there certain things that you actively do? Because we hear this a lot that, of course, you have the headquarters in Europe or in The Netherlands, and then the US team in the beginning is still quite small. So sometimes it's difficult to really make sure that they work together very well and that they know what the other is doing. Are you actively doing something to make sure that that relationship works well or?
Speaker 3:Yeah. First of all, it was it was not intended, but working from there for a couple months is very powerful. So I would always advise if you're even hiring someone in The US, make sure that they get to the to The Netherlands or to wherever you're from for a certain period of time, not just three days, to also build a connection. Right? It's important to build that connection that that they feel okay sharing because that's something that you'll find if you're if you're hiring, Americans.
Speaker 3:They will they're more hesitant to share something if you you don't have that relationship with them Mhmm. Especially if you're a leadership. Right. So that's that's gonna be always a a tough thing. But if you build that relationship, they might be able to share more, and that's what we're used to.
Speaker 3:Right? We we will hear when something is wrong and otherwise things are right. But with that, with Americans, it's slightly different sometimes. Further, I tried to go back every quarter. I didn't do that when I was in Mexico, and I noticed it when I came back.
Speaker 3:I was, like, for two days. Mhmm. People are like, oh, you know, you're back and this and then let's have a coffee. It was was a little bit overwhelming, so it was good to just tell myself I need to come back every quarter Mhmm. To to make sure I align and I promote my region a little bit into Right.
Speaker 3:And and something that we did is I I invited our leadership or some people in our leadership for some of the events. So they met the team, they shared knowledge, they could speak on those events. Right? My CEO came to an event and spoke there. That was actually very beneficial for us, but also for them to understand how big this market is and how the people react and what everyone wants.
Speaker 3:So I think that was very powerful.
Speaker 1:And then I'm also very curious how you built the team in The US because you started all by yourself. But yeah, you've just moved to a bigger office. You've hired quite a few people. Could you tell us a bit more about what was what were your strategic moves there?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I started with hiring an account executive, and him and me, we were just kinda like the two of us were doing this together. So that was also we had to figure out how pricing, product, how everything works, get the project, you know, get people from the project involved, etcetera. Then I hired another account executive, a partner manager, support, BDR, and then marketing. How I would suggest to do it better or maybe in my learnings from it is I think it's good to hire salespeople and BDR and stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah. But don't forget about the onboarding or the project people because that was sometimes struggling. Of course, it's a chicken and egg story because you need to have the deals first before you're able to hire people. Right. But now we're like, we have these deals, but some clients walked away because they're like, yeah.
Speaker 3:You you guys are not responsive enough. Luckily, we now hired a team in Toronto that to easier attract talent and that kind of stuff because The US, that was a little bit tough. Mhmm. But, yeah, that was definitely a learning.
Speaker 1:And all onboarding is done in The US and then Canada or also still dependent on The Netherlands?
Speaker 3:So now for larger projects or they're still the people in Canada are still mourning. So they are still being, yeah, taught the ways with involvement of The Netherlands. But we we there have dedicated people who are doing The US projects, so they they work a little bit more US hours. Mhmm. But very soon, I think the team in Canada is gonna be independent to and they are servicing The US market from a that's that's a technical onboarding perspective.
Speaker 1:So one advice is definitely make sure that you also have the capacity to really assist the clients before you generate the new leads.
Speaker 3:Exactly. We did hire support, tech support, but that actually comes after onboarding.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So
Speaker 3:I think but that was a learning from another experience. So that's why it was shit. We it was good to tell the story we have twenty four seven or around this follow the sun support. Yeah. But eventually and actually, it ended up being really good for the the Dutch clients who had issues in the evening.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, the onboarding part, now we're really ramping that up or actually we hired a team of five, six people there. So
Speaker 1:And you already mentioned, I think in the challenges that it's also it was a bit of a challenge to find great salespeople. How did you work that out?
Speaker 3:I I would say I'm a bit of a salesperson myself, so I just started mess messaging people myself. Yeah. I think that says a lot about it. And I the message was also like, do you wanna, you know, do this together with me? You know?
Speaker 3:And that's also my mindset. So the first person I hired was Kevin, and and he's been great. He worked he came from the space, and and him and me just pioneered this together. But I also had to find someone who was pie who was able to pioneer. And Yeah.
Speaker 3:I think we did we did that well. And and then you hire different kind of personalities that are, yeah, even more organized or more strict or more hunting or the or I hired someone with a very big network, right, in partnerships. And I think that saved us a year of time of growing that ecosystem. So, yeah, I I think, luckily, I was able to persuade or to tell my management team, okay, we need if we had the right people with, of course, the the coming salaries with it, we can scale the markets better. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And and I'm happy we did that.
Speaker 1:Do you think that you had to fight harder as well because The US was still in such a early stage that was more difficult that you didn't really have anything to show for in The US locally?
Speaker 3:So funny that you asked that. My colleague so basically, we also at the same time opened an office in Singapore and Australia. And I tried to I think my management was approaching those three regions almost similarly, but it was and it's very I I understand, right, in size, it could be the same, but I knew in ecommerce and marketplace size and but also how aggressive American businesses purchase software. I knew from my experience it was different. And I I did that actually to prove just to get bigger and more deals or try to do that Yeah.
Speaker 3:In order to kinda prove that The US was different. So, yeah, I think that was at least my personal approach, but that's just, I think, a personal thing. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we'd love to get some insights as well on the e commerce landscape. What are the opportunities for European e commerce companies in The U. S. Market?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a great question. I do it a little bit with numbers, this answer, because it's such a vast it's it's a crazy market. Right? So Europe has the total retail sales of 3,800,000,000,000.0, and USA is over 4,000,000,000,000. So Wow.
Speaker 3:US has a larger sales retail sales. E commerce is 844,000,000,000 in Europe, where it is in US 960,000,000,000. So again, US surpasses Europe. Year over year growth in Europe is 12%. Right?
Speaker 3:Where it is in The US, 18.3%. And now the funniest thing, in Europe, the population is 447 people. Mhmm. Where it is in The US, 333. So you can imagine The US is a consumerist market.
Speaker 2:Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I I have to say I'm I'm one of those as well. Right? But it's just you're it's just you're easier because you have a bit of a bigger salary, and you can you can do more with it. And therefore, you're just like, oh, yeah. I'm just gonna purchase this because I want a new product.
Speaker 3:So and then right? And and Guilty. And Yeah. Guilty. Wrong.
Speaker 3:Guilty. So that's that's just something that I I after these numbers, I think you you can show the Yeah. The potential of The US market a little bit.
Speaker 1:And did you see a difference that it grew faster because of COVID in The US or in Europe? Because I imagine that more people are doing online shopping since COVID.
Speaker 3:Yes. That's kinda like why we grew suddenly so fast. Right? We are we we kinda like exploded because of it. We have a a model with our clients that it's it's somewhat revenue based.
Speaker 3:And because all of my our clients were blowing up, we were blowing up as a business. So our valuation went up a lot, and therefore, raising a good amount of money was a lot easier, and we did that during exactly the right time.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The timing was perfect.
Speaker 3:But yeah. For us, the timing, I would say, was was perfect. That's maybe another piece of advice. I see some companies stay bootstrapped. I and I've worked for Sana, which is bootstrapped and at first is challenging, which is has investors.
Speaker 3:And it it's it's a different mindset of running a business. Luckily, Sana had the the the financials in order to to facilitate it. But if you don't have that, you you're gonna have issues. So you'll need to find VCs to to back you up. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And we got a lady a lot more local or at least a US VC as well, and I think that was also very beneficial for network perspective.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And then if we look at the marketplace landscape in The US, what are the current trends that you're noticing?
Speaker 3:Yeah. And again, we can do an episode about this as well. Generally speaking, Amazon is the most desired and biggest platform, right? In The US, a typical client on marketplaces, mostly they do like 80% of their revenue in generic categories on Amazon and then another 10%, 15% Walmart, and then, you know, some other marketplace that typically is for their industry. Good to understand that the gym fee across the top 10 marketplaces in The US is around 500,000,000,000.
Speaker 3:So you can see it's more than it's almost more than half the total ecommerce. Right? So we're also seeing the trend of marketplace sales, and this is globally actually, but the trend of marketplace sales is relatively growing compared to the normal ecommerce. So your own website is has the highest profits, but, of course, the marketplaces are are a very good opportunity to capitalize on because of there's already a lot of sales, but they they also have a lot of client bases and a lot of, yeah, infrastructure to to make that successful. However, the Amazon share is declining a little bit.
Speaker 3:So we're seeing it. It was 47%. It's now 37%. And and and where Amazon grew 15%, Walmart grew 21%. Right?
Speaker 3:So we are seeing Walmart is catching up. I'm not saying they are going to be as big as Amazon ever, but but we are seeing some trends. Other things that we're seeing in terms of development is that a lot of retailers are becoming online marketplaces. We've seen this already in The Netherlands, right, where Vaycom, most people don't know, that's that's also became a marketplace, and there's there's a lot of them right now. Boxes just became a one.
Speaker 3:It's it's very interesting. But but here, these boxes are, well, a 100 times bigger. Oh, and not to forget, just TikTok launched their theirs. Oh, yes. Pinterest is working on it.
Speaker 3:Well, they said they have it, but technically, I don't know, Meta. I'm not allowed to share, but there's a lot of developments Right. In in these social platforms. So this this is going to be the market.
Speaker 1:It's So basically
Speaker 3:lot of channels.
Speaker 1:Yeah. All stores have to go to the marketplace now. They have to get a marketplace.
Speaker 3:There is I mean, there's still a lot to say for retail or in store purchases, and there that will remain the case for a lot of categories. But in terms of ecommerce or online sales, I think it's inevitable to to use marketplaces Or for at least for the first purchase. Right? One of our clients is Sonos. And what what we're doing with them or what they do with us is every new market or a new country they go towards Mhmm.
Speaker 3:They use the the local marketplaces to get the first orders. Mhmm. And then they they bind these clients to them, and then the rest of the follow orders for the big purchases or the extra speakers are all on their own websites. Funny enough, Brooklyn and not with us, unfortunately, but here in Brooklyn or in in The US, they they do the same. They use marketplaces for the first purchase.
Speaker 3:Right. And then people are hooked, and then they're gonna they're gonna purchase on the website because you you bind as if you have such a good brand, you can you can bind them to you. So it's really good for some brands to do that as a first Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then I'm also wondering, there any consumer behavior differences between Europe and The US that e commerce companies that would like to expand to The US market should be aware of?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I would it it feels to me more like a global trend also. Of course, there's payment flexibility that we see now with Afterpay or maybe an interesting one, and that's something we had in The Netherlands already earlier than The US, but the buyer moral starts picking up. So, you know, sustainability in products and that kind of stuff is more and more important. And that's an argument to pay more for something with which is built from, you know, plastic, ocean plastic or something like that.
Speaker 3:I'd say in terms of the industry also I am in or we're in, the use of multichannel and the behavior on multiple platforms is rising. So you're using sometimes Amazon for your product search, right? But sometimes your product search or your selection starts somewhere else. For instance, 72 prefer Wayfair's customer service chat as a first option in that specific industry, of course. But then funny now, 40% of the purchase end up in Amazon.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Oh, Similar that and this was from a survey of of one of my partners. Around 60% said that Bed Bath and Beyond is where they would first go to find their home deco item. But only 32 end up purchasing it there and and, you know, around 45% purchasing and on Amazon.
Speaker 2:Is that because it's cheaper on Amazon?
Speaker 3:Or Personally, but also with with what we what we know. Amazon has a great customer service.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You
Speaker 3:trust that you can send it back at any time. You have your account. It's very easy. The shipping is fast. Like the so that perspective is great.
Speaker 3:But from a search perspective, if you type in, you know, Kotlrry and Amazon, you get you get overwhelmed by what you what you get. Right? True. So we're now seeing more and more of the searches are happening in other places.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. This is what we're trying to teach brands. They're they're mostly on Amazon. They're like, yeah, but Amazon's where my revenue's at, so why would it be in the other channels? The other channels also fuel the revenue on Amazon.
Speaker 3:So
Speaker 2:then if you look at all the clients that you worked with or still and still working with, what would you say are the main obstacles you've seen for the clients or maybe reoccurring obstacles that they deal with?
Speaker 3:I would say, especially with the market entry Mhmm. Maybe that's the easiest one if we're talking to European brands. It is I see that they have a mental struggle with creating an entity here. That's why I do refer them to you guys. But after this, again, no, I don't know this and that.
Speaker 3:And then they they're asking about, like, can we do only Amazon FBA? Mhmm. But it's kinda like a bit of a risk if they if they don't set it up properly. They sometimes don't want to take the leap. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Right? So that is that is a little bit unfortunate because also the taxes and compliances and stuff are are sometimes an an an issue. I don't think they realize how easy it could be, again, with you guys or or or with something similar. It's not as complicated as in Europe sometimes. Right?
Speaker 3:It's here here, a business is it's very easy to let the business go bankrupt and start a new business because it's a very business environment. Whereas in The Netherlands, if if a business that's tied to you personally goes bankrupt, you have a big issue. Right? Right. So that's why I think.
Speaker 3:Secondary, it's the localization of warehouses and and or, you know, your logistics Mhmm. Figuring that part out. Some are trying to then get their own warehouse, but there's a lot of we call them three PLs or third party logistics that can facilitate these services. Right. That I we typically advise or any use FBA.
Speaker 3:Now the latest thing is that you can also use FBA for shipping off some of these other channels. Mhmm. So that could help us all with it.
Speaker 2:Do you have a lot of clients that maybe get too confident and think like, oh, we don't need those services, like, we'll do it ourselves. Would you then advise against that saying, like, use a service like Tabs? Do you have a lot of people that think that they can do it without?
Speaker 3:I think it's mostly these brands are larger.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And they have their legal team or their you know, it's more of a restriction internally
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Where an an innovative ecommerce team wants to start doing marketplace business, and then they are tied up with their legal team. And we have three clients that either their finance team or legal team is tying them up, and therefore, they can't start doing revenue. Uh-huh. It's like they're ready on our plan. They're ready to go.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And they can't because of finance or something like that. So, yeah, I don't it's tough to to tackle those stakeholders. But in of course, making a leap like this also involves internal stakeholders that you have to in your organization, need to make sure that everyone is on board with it.
Speaker 1:But I also agree that it's I feel like it's also really a mentality switch because we indeed see it with a lot of clients that The US market can feel so overwhelming and a bit of a scary market because you don't wanna get any product liability claims or you read all these scary articles. But I feel like sometimes companies don't realize that they feel like it's safer to do everything from Europe, but they don't realize the risk that they potentially have with their foreign entity in The US and the potential legal and tax exposure that comes with it. So that is sometimes it's much safer, less risky to indeed start the entity or at least do some protective filings or do your registration. So yeah, but that's also why we have a great collaboration so that we can help clients.
Speaker 3:A it's a yeah. Again, if you wanna take the leap, go for it. But there's a massive potential. I think the ROI is there. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But just don't don't try to do it half baked, you know.
Speaker 2:Right. So that maybe ties into our last question is like, what are the tips or advice you would give European entrepreneurs that want to expand to The US market?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I have them for brands and for tech companies because I think we've For talking brands, yeah, again, like I just said, The US has a big growth potential. It's a massive opportunity, but take it take it seriously, you know? Get the right people in place. Find the right partners.
Speaker 3:Go locally, like, travel here. Go to events. See how big it is, and make a good plan to to go for it, of course. Again, for brand, there's a lot of competition on Amazon, and you can also consider other channels for either less competition or or to get your brand out in the market. Right?
Speaker 3:And it it is important to if you go Amazon, you also find a right partner that can of course, we can do a part because we do listings and and automations and and making sure that orders and such are coming comes in, but we're not doing advertising. And then that's a big part on Amazon in order to make it happen because there's too many products to try to stand out. And, yeah, some addition from my side is show that you're a EU brand because Americans love European brands. And, yeah, I mean, my girlfriend, funny enough, anytime we go to Europe, she wants to do all the shopping there because of the clothes and everything is different than The US, and that's why they like it. So don't hesitate to to show you're you're from Europe.
Speaker 3:From tech companies, that might be the other way around. So make sure you you show that you're you have American presence and that you have an office here and, you know, make sure that you have people from The US, Americans that work in your company because they trust it more. And when you're building the regions, make sure you I I would say you have someone you can actually trust. I I I had the pleasure that with my with our founder and CEO. Have a super good connection with the CFO.
Speaker 3:With with all the the leadership, have a good good connection, and I I trust them. They trust me, and that's very important in order to to do so and to, yeah, to adjust according to the market. We talked briefly about it, but the compensation, you know, do some research, get get advice by the right companies to make sure you do that correctly. Make sure you have your health health care, like, the benefits, like, health care is is crucial. Right?
Speaker 3:If you if just an example is you you you'll pay at least 500 a month if you don't have health care. So it's it's a big pain here locally. Yeah. Like I said in the start, so this is maybe more of a summary, but make sure you invest enough in also the overhead or, like, let's say, marketing to grow to grow the sales team as well as well as the onboarding to make sure your clients retain and grow fast to be happy.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks so much. Yeah. It was very insightful. It would definitely be very valuable for companies entering The US market.
Speaker 3:I hope so, yeah. No. And again, like, we're it's not a service, but I I always like helping companies take the leap. So if there's anyone that wants to have a conversation, then I'm always open for that.
Speaker 2:That was a great conversation, very informative. And you already shared so many different tips. What were the main takeaways from this conversation, you think?
Speaker 1:There were so many takeaways that it's hard to choose. But one thing that I noticed is that a lot of entrepreneurs mention that finding the right talent and building a team in The US is one of the most challenging parts of a market expansion. And I think you already shared some very valuable tips on this subject. And I definitely agree with him that it is important to build that connection between the US team and the team in Europe.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. But also culturally, don't say no immediately and show your face at every event possible so that clients can get
Speaker 1:to know you. Definitely. Networking is a very important part of it. So if you're an e commerce company that wants to know more about marketplaces in The US, let us know and we will connect you to Jordian channel engine.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, Flora, and thanks to all the listeners. As always, please subscribe, like, and share. You can find The US expansion series on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.