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AI First with Adam and Andy: Inspiring Business Leaders to Make AI First Moves is a dynamic podcast focused on the unprecedented potential of AI and how business leaders can harness it to transform their companies. Each episode dives into real-world examples of AI deployments, the "holy shit" moments where AI changes everything, and the steps leaders need to take to stay ahead. It’s bold, actionable, and emphasizes the exponential acceleration of AI, inspiring CEOs to make AI-first moves before they fall behind.
Andy (00:00)
It took us 10 months to research, write, and edit the book. And then it took the publisher 10 months to publish the book. So the whole process took 20 months. and it was a good book. I mean, I'm proud of the book. It was my first book I ever wrote with Adam. It was great. But it felt out of date the day it was published. And that always annoyed me. and so.
The idea toward the end of March of 2026 was, hey, how do we deal with the fact that this technology is moving so fast? How do we keep up with the pace of change, the logarithmic curve that we're on? And what if we used an agent to help us write the book? And that idea captured me. And so today, on this episode, we're letting you know that next week, our second book, which is called Agent Sync, is coming up.
So that's the origin story from my perspective.
This is AI First with Adam and Andy, the show that takes you straight to the front lines of AI innovation and business. I'm Andy Sack, and alongside my co-host, Adam Brottman, each episode we bring you candid conversations with business leaders, transforming their businesses with AI. No fluff, just real talk and actionable use cases, insights for you.
Welcome everyone. Super special episode today. We have a special guest, Rose. Welcome. Rose, you want to just give a brief introduction to yourself so our audience knows who you are?
Rose (01:19)
Yeah, ⁓ so I'm Rose Kelly. I am the Chief Strategy Officer at Forum3. ⁓ I had the privilege of working with Adam and Andy on their first book. ⁓ and excited to talk to you guys all today about what they've been up to lately.
Andy (01:32)
Yeah, so I mentioned that today's a special episode. It's a mini episode, and we asked Rose to come on. She's gonna be an occasional guest on the pod, so you'll get to know her going forward. But we asked her to come on because we have kind of an announcement to make. ⁓ and we thought it would be useful for Rose, who's been a pivotal member of the team and a pivotal member of this project.
So with that, I'm gonna just hand it over to Rose. What you're gonna get out of this is a sneak peek of our project, which is announcing next week.
Rose (02:04)
Okay, I'll let you guys really tee it up. so as I mentioned, you wrote AI First barely a year ago. It came out on June twenty fourth, twenty twenty six, twenty twenty-five. tell me the origin story of your latest book that is coming out next week. Adam, do you wanna start it off or Andy?
Andy (02:19)
Adam, I'm gonna
I'm gonna let Adam start off because it was Adam's idea. So Adam, do you wanna start off with our origin story from your perspective and then I'll give it from my perspective?
Adam Brotman (02:26)
Okay.
Yeah, so really January of this year, we're recording this in June of twenty-six. In January this year, everything in AI changed again, it felt like. And Andy ⁓ and I and our whole team at our company were starting to use agents like never before. all of a sudden
It was like we were experimenting with open claw agents. Andy was all over the cowork, which had just gotten invented, and Andy, you were on it within like minutes, and you're like, Adam, you gotta try this, and I did, and using it in real agentic ways. And and so between co-work and open claw, we found ourselves like realizing that the world had changed again. Like it had changed with ChatGPT, and then it we kind of felt like it had changed again. It was like, my God,
You can give ChatGPT or Claude your computer, a computer, and it can just do things. And you can give it email, you can give it text. And the implications of that were we had been talking about that in an abstract fashion in our book and in our client work. but it changed in January. and as a result of that, there was a moment where.
We started talking to our clients about agents. And we were saying, we were explaining, like, this is how the world has changed, the models have gotten better to use computers, they can do things now, you can give them memory and persistence and communication channels, and they become like a friend, a coworker, or a whatever. and they can just do things. and then it occurred to me.
That as we were talking about how the world had changed, our talk track at Forum3 had changed, and our keynotes and our presentations were about agents now. And we had something new to say. were telling our clients that agents were coming and that the agentic organization was gonna change the way that companies were gonna get built. And so we built a talk track, right? We had presentations, we had an outline, and when I looked at that outline,
it kind of looked like the outline of a book. And it wasn't like we were dying to write another book, and nor did we have the sort of time to do it. But I had this idea. Was like, well, why don't we use an agent to help us write the book about agents? We already know what we want to say. And I wonder if there's a way we could take the timeline down from 20 months to two months or whatever. So it was just an idea I had.
I gave an agent, not Vera, the name of our agent that we
Andy (04:41)
Yeah, but hold
on, hold on. Before you start talking about, let me give my version of the origin story. which is yes, I started playing when I was in New Zealand with co work. We both set up OpenClaw. It was clear in January and February that the agentic era was here. the chatbot era was over. You and Rose
worked on content for clients and the materials we were delivering to clients now we're really starting to talk about agents as teammates. And we got really into this idea of digital teammates. I get a phone call toward the end of March. Adam says, What do you think about writing another book? I hate the idea of writing another book.
What do you think about writing it? we have stuff to say about digital teammates and agents. We'll use agents to help write the book. that's interesting. well, the other thing I'll say is one of the things, because we are coming up, it hasn't even been a year since we published AI First. I was personally frustrated when AI First came out because
It took us 10 months to research, write, and edit the book. And then it took the publisher 10 months to publish the book. So the whole process took 20 months. and it was a good book. I mean, I'm proud of the book. It was my first book I ever wrote with Adam. It was great. But it felt out of date the day it was published. And that always annoyed me. and so.
The idea toward the end of March of 2026 was, hey, how do we deal with the fact that this technology is moving so fast? How do we keep up with the pace of change, the logarithmic curve that we're on? And what if we used an agent to help us write the book? And that idea captured me. And so today, on this episode, we're letting you know that next week, our second book, which is called Agent Sync, is coming up.
So that's the origin story from my perspective.
Rose (06:25)
so you guys started alluding to it, but can you walk us through how you actually wrote this? You're saying you used agents for writing it. What did that look like? What was the process like?
Andy (06:34)
Who are you asking, Rose?
Adam Brotman (06:35)
Well you want
Rose (06:35)
Andy,
Adam Brotman (06:35)
the
Rose (06:35)
do you wanna take it?
Adam Brotman (06:36)
do you want the do you want the real story or the Andy like flourished up version like he just did? Cause that in all seriousness, Andy gets a lot of credit for a lot of the innovation of using an agent to write this book, I'll be honest. to go back to the the origin story, ⁓ when I had this idea, the way I presented what do you think of writing a book to Andy, as I wrote the book with
co-work for half a second in like an hour or maybe in a in like a couple. Well I wrote the first version in like an hour, but yeah. Then I sent it over to Andy and I copied Rose and actually they made some comments and stuff and like I went back and incorporated those comments and we had a book. Like a pretty good one. But it wasn't the book Andy was
Andy (07:02)
No we get.
Adam Brotman (07:19)
Let's do some interviews and let's do it more narrative style. And I actually have a better idea for how, like, good start, Adam, but like let's even use more of a real agent agent to write this thing. And Andy, you had some pretty good ideas about that. And you just go, can I take a stab at this? And we'll collaborate with the agent. We'll write this thing together. Same general idea but a different approach. And you went to town with building an agent.
That is Vera Brown, like actually a whole agency system for this. and then a better, more narrative style book, including interviews you were doing and you were feeding the interviews in. So I want to give you a lot of credit for that. It was very innovative. And so the origin story aside, like it went from could could we do this to we were doing it ⁓ with an agent?
And we were able to basically make our goals come true, like write a better book, use the agent to do it, and do it in an incredibly fast amount of time. I think we tried to do it in, you know, two months effectively, and we were pretty much successful.
Andy (08:15)
Yeah, so I mean, there's a lot to say about the process of working with an agent to write a book. I think Adam and I we feel that we authored this book or co authored this book. So you know, the way in which you work, there were probably twelve to fifteen versions of the book.
As Adam said, I did about 12 to 15 interviews with entrepreneurs and business leaders who are at the forefront of using agents how they were thinking about it, how were they using agents as digital teammates? What did it mean for the organization? What did it mean for the CEO? what did it mean?
Suddenly you're gonna have digital teammates on your team and like reporting to you. and so I would say I went to town, I went very deep on working with agents. I personally learned a lot. I'm not gonna try and summarize the process what I will say is that I did the process predominantly using Claude Co work. I went from, I'll say,
single-digit skills, like seven skills that I had to probably over 30 skills. and the skills were a range of editors, readers, writers. It was like a system for consistently improving the book. And then there'd be a version. We had to figure out who would read it and like
Who would have fresh eyes in order to read a 200 page book? Like it gets a little old reading your same book repeatedly. But in the end, I actually think the book really came together and the output I'm really proud of and it's and the narrative style of it. It's got some really great stories. And I think I think that if you're listening to this podcast, you're gonna be really pleased with the book. So that's what I'll say.
Rose (09:58)
So as we said, the book launches next week. very exciting that you leveraged agents for writing the book, ⁓ similar to kind of the content that's in the book. What aspect of the book or the book launch are you guys most excited about? Adam, do you wanna start?
Adam Brotman (10:11)
Well, I'm pretty excited about the content of the book. Because I mean, remember, if you think about the origin story, Andy and I had something to say about agents, and we wanted to get that out into the world. And the fact that we could do that in such a quick amount of time, A, was interesting. and the reason I say it's interesting is because I'm proud of that. But the thing I'm the most proud of, in a way, is that
We're taking an approach this book unlike the first book, to Andy's point, because it's not out of date, it's like just in time, it's good long-form content. Now we can make this book whatever we want. We have this idea, which we'll tell you about in second, to make to bring the book alive. And we have a very specific idea of why that's important. And we're gonna do it in a very agentic way, which makes sense.
And so that's the thing I'm most proud of is that, you know, besides the content of the book itself, is that the process of writing the book, and then our thought process from here is that we're not done. It's that we had something to say, we want to get that in people's hands in a way that is as consumable as possible, which may or may not even be a book, as we'll explain in a second.
Andy (11:14)
Adam, do you want to I think you should jump right into that.
Adam Brotman (11:16)
Yeah, so we're like the the cool thing about working with an agent, Andy just mentioned skills, right? So we're not gonna get into like giving you a training session on you know agentic best practices and what are claude skills and you know whatever. The truth is when you bring an agent alive, so to speak, you create this agent. it can do things, it can write a book, but
It can remember things and it can remember the way you like to do things and it can be connected to certain data sources and whatever. it's this powerful thing. It's not just a chat bot anymore that you go to and ask it a question and it comes back to you. it actually kind of persists in the world. And so by having a book agent, it allowed Andy to every time I had a comment or an editorial comment or we'd have a conversation about the book, it allowed Andy to go back to the agent and just go.
Listen, here's a transcript of our conversation. Take this into account and go do another version. Or here's an interview I just did with somebody. Go do this thing. And so we can do that with the book too. Like we realize that we can bring the book agent doesn't have to die. I think it's a terrible way to put it. The book agent doesn't have to die at the publishing of the book.
an agent persists. So we use a book agent to help us co-author this book and write the book. And then the idea occurred to us, why not make the book more useful than a normal glued together bunch of pages are? why does the agent have to stop at the writing of the book? Why can't the agent become the book?
And it's, you know, worth thinking about how powerful agents are because they have memory and they have skills and they sort of compound and they sort of learn. Well, the book has done all that. Why does it have to end now that we publish? Why can't the book live on and interact with the readers and produce versions of the book that are customized for readers? and not only can the agent do that and come to life in that way and persist, like it can actually make the book more useful to readers because now the book
book agent can stay current on current events and current thinking from me and Andy and bring that into whatever it's doing going forward. So when somebody says to the book agent, can I have my own version of the book? And I'd like it shorter and I'd like it in video format or I'd like it in PowerPoint format, like, fine. Like why do we care that, you know, that they don't have to read the actual book if they don't want to. I'm laughing because the world is becoming such a intermediary layer between
People and their agents and the agents go and compile things and figure things out. So we just had the insight that could happen with our book too. And so we're excited about this idea of a living book. And that because at the end of the day, the goal of the book isn't for Adam and Andy to just say we wrote a book or we co-authored a book with an agent or whatever. It's to actually get the ideas out there and understood by the audience. And we actually think an
book about agents that's and also an agent could actually do that better. So Andy, it's a it's kind of meta, so maybe you can kind of pick up
Andy (14:03)
so it's
so I'll just build on the real idea of a living book that's empowered by Agent. We actually are giving our agent co-author credit. So the the title of the book is Agent's Inc. The book is authored by Adam Brottman, Andy Sack, and Vera Brown.
Parentheses AI. Vera Brown is our agent. Initially, we're going to start with just one agent. And that agent is going to be available on the website when we launch next week. And the original idea was I got really excited just to build on what Adam was saying, this whole notion of a living book grew and morphed.
Because initially I was like, we're gonna do the book. There's gonna be a July 2026 version of the book. which is, you know, we set out to do it in two months. it took us three months to get to market with the book. and then I was like, there'll be a July version and then there'll be a January version. And we when we talk about the book, we actually spoke to our editor, Scott from Harvard Press.
And he was like, Yeah, the book is like a bunch of pieces of paper glued together ⁓ with glue. and so I was like, Yeah, there's gonna be a July version. And then I was really into the fact that there'd be an updated January version. And then there might be a July version of 27. We'll just see how that goes. And then Adam was like, yeah, we might do that.
But we don't need to timestamp it in that way. We're gonna give Vera the job of staying current on agents, fostering community, and a number of other aspects as all as it relates to agents, really to enhance the reader experience in the way in which they wanna interact with the content and the point of point of view of Adam and Andy. And so
That's the idea behind Vera Brown, the agent, and our co-author and this living book. And I give Adam credit both for the idea of doing Agent Sync as well as really driving the full manifestation of Vera Brown as an agent living book.
so now what am I excited about? I mean, I've been super excited just by the learning. So like going deep and actually using agents to write the book, I feel like I came up a significant learning curve of what it takes. I talked about my skill development. That excites me. And I'm excited really for this next phase of what does it mean to have a living book? And I you know, that's just a different concept. And the fact that we took a twenty month process and
Did it in three months, like that idea is just mind-blowing to me. I'm proud of the book and the thoughts that are in it. We'll talk about that next week when we launch. But the fact that we did it as fast and the quality is as good, and there were 12 versions of the book, like I just think about what's going to happen to all these knowledge industries. And I'm kind of both excited and a little scared of.
what's to come to the domain of business and industries, publishing being the first, but it's just a metaphor or if that's the right word, it's a metaphor or an anecdote of what's gonna happen to all these industries. The last thing I'll say that really excites me, the notion, I think there are gonna be layoffs as a result of agents, these digital teammates.
in the process of doing the book, writing the book, Agent Sync, the whole notion of solopreneurship really excited me. And I think we're at the dawn of that era. And we cover that topic in the book. There's even been more to say since we concluded the book. and there's this concept of a swarm.
And so I think like the whole nature of competition and moats and solopreneurship and what's gonna happen in the domain of business excites me. So our book is coming out next week. We're gonna announce it. This was meant to be a preview. Hopefully you're excited both to read Agents Inc. as well as talk to Vera Brown.
the living book agent. And ⁓ with that, Rose, thank you for facilitating and for all your help in getting Agents Inc. to market. to the people that are listening to this podcast, just want to say thanks for being on the journey with us. thanks to the audience for listening to AI First with Adam and Andy.
I don't know if we're going to update that to listening to Agents Inc. with Adam and Andy, but right now we're keeping the podcast the same. For more resources on how to become AI first, you can visit our website, www.forum3.com, download case studies, research briefing, executive summaries, and join our email list.
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