F*ck Fear with Christine Spratley: Living Like a Head Bitch In Charge | Understanding Burnout: It's Not You, It's The System (Part One)

In this episode of 'Fuck Fear with Christine Spratley,' Christine and special guest Ria delve into the complex topic of burnout, exploring its systemic roots and how it disproportionately affects women. They discuss myths about burnout, the psychological and physical costs, and the impact of the chronic stress many women face in both professional and personal spheres. Join the conversation to uncover why burnout isn't just about overworking yourself and learn how to identify and address structural issues that contribute to this pervasive problem.

00:00 Introduction and Immunity Shots
01:31 Exploring Burnout: Definitions and Misconceptions
03:16 The Systemic Nature of Burnout
04:42 Emotional and Psychological Costs of Burnout
06:56 Gender Disparities in Burnout
10:16 Personal Experiences and Societal Expectations
15:18 Workplace Dynamics and Burnout
18:53 Addressing Burnout: Systemic Solutions
31:56 The Myth of Not Being Tough Enough
32:01 The Reality of Zero Restorative Time
33:52 The Impact of Unfulfilling Environments
34:14 Burnout Statistics and Studies
35:03 The Illusion of Workplace Niceties
37:52 The Low-Grade Simmer of Trauma
39:13 Chronic Stress and Its Effects
46:01 Personal Stories of Burnout
55:14 Recognizing and Addressing Burnout
57:44 The Importance of Restorative Time
01:01:15 Final Thoughts and Next Steps

Creators and Guests

Host

Christine (HBIC) Spratley

Dynamic Public Speaker | Change Catalyst | Career Navigation Coach

What is F*ck Fear with Christine Spratley: Living Like a Head Bitch In Charge ?

This podcast is for anyone who wants to live like an HBIC—or lives with, works with, marries, dates, or is raising one. Let’s be real: being a Head Bitch in Charge is messy, bold, and unapologetically badass. This is not a guidebook—it’s a pantry.

My guests and I will share the ingredients that we use—what’s worked and what’s failed—as we say “fuck fear” and take action to live a fulfilled life. We cover real-life hacks and deep philosophical pillars to navigate the chaos of everyday life—where some days, my only accomplishment is having a bra on and my teeth brushed.

We’re tackling the daily shit women navigate, from workplace politics to relationships, raising kids, and building careers, all with humor, audacity, and zero filters.

So, tune in—tell your friends, and even your enemies. This isn’t about aging with grace—it’s about aging with mischief, audacity, and a damn good story to tell.

039 FFear - Ria Ellen Peake
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Christine Spratley: [00:00:00] Hello everyone. Welcome to Fuck Fear with Christine Spratley. Um, and as always, uh, we've got our shots and we have our guests here today. Who does? She's not in studio. You can't do the shot. These are not shot shots. These are regular just I.

Ginger and we're doing [00:01:00] immunity today, or Joe likes to call it immortality, just like a guy. Shit live forever. But um, so we do that and it wakes us up and grows hair on our chest. Right Joe? All right. Ready? Okay. 1, 2, 3, go.

There's a lot of ginger in it and a lot of lemon. Ah, that one, that one got the back of my throat. Ooh, we're ready to go. So today's episode, ladies and gentlemen, is really about burnout. And it sounds pretty simple, right? Like, yeah, it's burnout, everybody's had it. Um, but re and I are gonna explore some things today.

And, um, it's, and it's in discussing this with Ria, I thought it was really good when we talked about it being, um, the idea of [00:02:00] burnout being that you are receiving too less, too, too, too little. It's not that you're giving too much someone to speak, it's, it's about giving too little. So today's episode, we'll get two of these.

We've got two different episodes that we're gonna do. The first one is kind of looking at burnout. We are gonna go through the definition 'cause everybody knows I love definitions and we are, and I are gonna explain, are kind of explore that, you know, why it's not a woman problem. Um, it's a systemic problem.

It's not our failure to just manage better. Um, and, and also what happens to us. And Maria, you know, I'm really glad you're here for this because there's the things that we, you know, think happened to us. Like we see, but by the time we see ' em, it's like we've already burned through five red lights, you know?

Yeah. And we're at the bottom and we're past exhaustion or it's manifested itself in other ways. So I'm really glad that you're gonna be able to, 'cause I know you've had [00:03:00] experience with that. I have had experience. We're gonna share those. Um, but also just kind of talk about, not just physical, but the psychological 'cause I know you've looked into that as well.

The cost. Um, I'm gonna talk a little bit about, for those of you that are, Hey, we gotta stick to business. I'm gonna talk a lot about, you know, the cost of the business and, and just really, um, I don't think people realize, uh, and I'm gonna say this because of. The lack of understanding or the lack of acknowledgement of a woman's role, the greater role that we play, the emotional role in teams and work and things like that.

Um, household management, you know, who knows, who knows all of the birthdays in the family, who knows all of the, of the kids in the family, who knows when you are, the milk is gonna expire, you know, all of that stuff. Um, who does that? [00:04:00] Women do. And I don't think that's acknowledged or sometimes even thought of.

And so therefore, when it comes to assessing what will burn you out,

Ria Ellen Peake: Hmm.

Christine Spratley: it doesn't get looked at for women at all. So I wanna, we're gonna touch on that. Um, and then we're gonna go into kind of little bit, we're gonna bust some myths about, again, going back to the system and the structure of it versus a spa day.

Spa days are nice. They don't, they don't, you know, or there's another one that I like and we'll go into that about, well, we'll just, we'll just do less. Yeah. All right. And, um, sometimes that doesn't work out either. So let's kick this off. And Maria, I looked up the definition, I did it to the Oxford definition because there's a bunch of 'em out there.

Um, and then I did it from the World Health Organization. And I'd like to get your thoughts on this, um, burnout, the state of being extremely tired. Ill either physically or mentally, [00:05:00] um, because you have worked too hard. Um, and again. Um, I'm, I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. And then the w the WHL, world Health Organization says a syndrome, um, a syndrome resulting from chronic, chronic workplace stress that has not been successfully managed.

And there's three dimensions, exhaustion, increased mental distance from one's job or cynicism. I ranked really high on that towards my burnout on both of those. And reduce professional, um, fc. And what I think is on both of those, my immediate brain went to, fuck you, I'm managing just fine. Or it's more, you're not managing it right?

Like, um, has not been successful and managed. And what I realized is that I have internalized this rather than looking at. [00:06:00] And saying, okay, burnout is a state of being extremely tired. Ill either physically or mentally because the system, because I've worked hard, because the system didn't had me set up to work too hard.

And in the World Health Organization, a syndrome resulting from chronic workplace stress because the workplace has not been successfully managed, that stress. It's kind of how I reframed that.

Ria Ellen Peake: You see, I'm gonna throw

Christine Spratley: What do you

Ria Ellen Peake: I'm not okay with that.

Christine Spratley: podcast?

Ria Ellen Peake: okay

Christine Spratley: Okay.

Ria Ellen Peake: I think, I think it's classically, it's demonstrating actually our attitudes systemically towards burnout. You've worked too hard, you've done this, and I know that's your point in that actually. There's no option other than that. But I think when we think about the [00:07:00] workplace, as you've said, the woman's workplace isn't just at work, everywhere. it's not just, do you know what I mean? So I think I'd also throw in, um, the ill either mentally or physically, emotionally, what spiritually where are we? It's not for me quite grasp the whole. Morbidity of burnout. The heaviness of it actually, and how might not actually start physically or mentally. I I would bet actually it does start emotionally, I would bet it does start spiritually being unfulfilled and undervalued and then it trickles out. That would be my thoughts with that.

Christine Spratley: And, and when I say this, and, and again, I had that same reaction, these definitions suck because I took it personally, but I took it personally and I know society does. So when I frame this and said, [00:08:00] no, it's because you've worked too hard. Well, the reason why I'm working too hard is the system that I'm in.

Has me working too hard. So f you very much or the workplace stress hasn't been successfully managed.

Ria Ellen Peake: Mm-hmm.

Christine Spratley: not me to manage. I've, I like it's everybody else. It's the allocation of everything around me. It's the structure. And so even though, and again, we didn't make up these definitions, so maybe that's our next, our next episode for tomorrow.

You and I'll come up with our own definition of burnout, but I thought it was interesting how, like you say, from the very, from the very start of the definition, without us changing it, we look inward.

Ria Ellen Peake: Yeah.

Christine Spratley: It's our problem. It's wrong with us, it's our illness, it's our mental, it's our physical or mental, um, being too tired.

These, those are all the [00:09:00] symptoms of it. Okay, but, and it's a state of that, but the cause of it isn't because it's, it's because I've worked too hard, but we're not causing me to work too hard.

Ria Ellen Peake: absolutely. And I think, I wonder if there's.

Christine Spratley: The inadequate

Ria Ellen Peake: I wonder if

Christine Spratley: Go ahead.

Ria Ellen Peake: in kind of, I know we've, we've kind of touched on this. We're working too hard. We're giving, and lack of receiving, nothing is coming back in other than oftentimes chronic. More and more and more give more and more and more. And there's an element of, I think with burnout, resentment. think it perhaps starts with resentment internally.

Christine Spratley: Well, I, I think it is the equitable distribution, whether it be at home, whether it be in a romantic relation, but whether it be an equitable does not [00:10:00] mean equal. Let's, let's be clear on that. But it's equitable distribution and whether that be in the workplace, because like we talked about earlier, it is,

Ria Ellen Peake: Mm.

Christine Spratley: you know, it's a systemic failure, not us, and it's.

It's, you know, we are often waking up, um, feeling burnout compared to it's, there's like 30 pre 33% of women wake up feeling burnout versus 25% of men in the employee. And,

Ria Ellen Peake: mm.

Christine Spratley: and so something's not balanced, for lack of a better word, um, in the system, in the system. And I just, again, I think there's, there's another, um, study on here. It's Forbes. They did a Gallup data survey of why women burn out more often than men. And I think it's like you were [00:11:00] saying, because we don't receive the things around us, we need to not burn out.

It's not because we are needier . It's because we are giving more. We, I mean, think about, I thought about this in my teams, 'cause I did talk to some of my team members. Some was like, again, we talked about earlier, who knows the birthdays, who worries, who, who, who does this?

Who stays up and, and worries about the emotional, um. Team members, like, you know, like, Hey, how they, how are they doing today? How are they? Do you know? All of that stuff. Along with all the details, along with all the notes, along with getting the project out the door. It's typically women, 'cause we're one raised that way.

We're raised to be the nurturers, but while we're giving our time and our energy towards a techno, you know, towards the technical aspect of whatever we're doing. Your course in work with health and and care, we're also giving the [00:12:00] emotional aspect for the team and the nurturing aspect. We're not getting any of that return, and then we're going home, like you said, to another situation where we're giving both the technical aspect, we're cooking or we're arranging, or we're taking care of this or we're taking care of that, and then we're doing the emotional aspect and we're not filling up.

Ria Ellen Peake: that's the thing. I think there's an inherent expectation, and I know I felt it in myself, um, of. Every last single drop in that glass before you go to bed at night, that glass is empty. That cup is empty. There's no threshold, there's no bit saved for self. It's, I've got a poor and poor and poor. Oh, I've got one more drop.

I'll give it over there. Oh, where can I give this five minutes of energy that I've got before I fall into bed? 'cause I've gotta give it. 'cause otherwise I don't deserve that rest. Otherwise, I'm not done. Does that sound familiar?[00:13:00]

Christine Spratley: There's somebody that I follow on Instagram, and I probably sent her, sent, sent you some of her stuff where she's telling her husband different things and it shows his reaction. And there's a, there's, I think it's called the Huckleberry app. And, um, it is an app that monitors the women's workload, emotional workload at home and, and the actual, like how many hours they spent nursing, how many hours they spent pumping, like, like just.

And anyway, but anyway, and, and that's where I found out the Huckle app. It's really a cool thing. I started looking up and again, that's all the stuff that nobody's tracked. Nobody is. You are giving your energy, your time, your emotion, your worry. Um, and it's one of those things where I think for a lot of women, like you and I may sit there and go, Ooh, this does sound familiar.

I can't, I'm, I'm not, I need to think about this before I get [00:14:00] rest and deserve rest. Where I think, I think there are still women out there that don't know that they're doing that. I, I think that they just go, oh my God, I'm in bed and I've got five other fucking things. But I don't think that they, I think they should do it, um, because it took me a long time to one, realize that I was giving every le, I mean, like, I don't fall asleep until I fall asleep, and I didn't realize how you crashed.

I, I mean, it's like if I've got something in my cup, something's wrong with me, and I didn't realize. Um, and I hear it, I've heard it so often in, in women that I coach and, and colleagues. You know, I've got a, at one time I was in, I was at a conference and I was speaking there, and I had met a colleague that I used to work with, and I'm like, let's go, let's go eat.

I mean, it's like, we were on mountain time, so they [00:15:00] were on Eastern time, so it wasn't. They're not up. Like she said, no, I gotta send this out. And I'm like, why? No one's gonna work on it tonight? And it was that, oh, I got it, got got, I got it. And I'm like, no, you haven't eaten all day. Let's go eat. And it's that thing of, I've gotta do that one more thing.

And I, and I do think it is, I'm not gonna go into the the patriarchy because we could go down that all we want then go into it systemic in the system. So. Look at your burnout, not as, Hey, there's something wrong with me. No, there's something wrong with my system because I can't, if I'm empty, how am hell?

Am I gonna fill myself up?

Ria Ellen Peake: Yeah. Who's there to catch? Who's there to hold person that holds everything? There's no space to,

Christine Spratley: Yeah.

Ria Ellen Peake: and I think there's that chronic fear that I've seen in women that I've worked with of, I'm the catcher, so I can't fall. God, I can't fall. What [00:16:00] happens then? The whole mounting collapses.

The whole deck of cards. Because if the woman's down, everyone's down. You know, everyone's inconvenienced might be a better

Christine Spratley: Yeah,

Ria Ellen Peake: inconvenient.

Christine Spratley: I'd say inconvenience. Everyone has to learn to fish for themselves. It was, I had a. I had a call yesterday. I had to change my doctor's appointment and, um, I, you know, me, I like to talk, so I'm on this call and, and, uh, she asked for my, my number and I give it to her 9 8 4 9 8 5 HBIC, and she starts laughing.

And, uh, she said, and uh, I said, and then I gave her the, the digits. And, uh, she's, she goes, is that what I think? It's, I said, yes, had vision in charge. And I said, I'm not in charge of your shit. I'm in charge of my shit. I got enough shit like you are in charge. You know? And then we started having this conversation.

But what was interesting is she was having, she was having a really bad day. And I think [00:17:00] she's, I think she was having a really bad time. Not bad as in, oh, I'm having a bad but like, burnt out because we started talking and I started, I was like, all right. Um, and she just kind of was stressed. And so I said, okay, look, you know, how do I said, look at your feet, you where your feet are at.

Look at your feet. Are you safe? And you sane. All right. Is everybody around you safe and sane as far as you know? Yeah. All right. And if. If they're not, they can call 9 1 1, like, you know? And I was like, all right, you're okay. Like right now, right here you are, okay. You can just breathe. You're taking a call.

I'm okay. I'm happy. You're, we're gonna get to my shit in a little bit. All we gotta do is move the date. So let's talk about you. And so we sat there and we talked and I was like, you know, when you go home tonight, do something nice for you. Like do something childlike for you. Do something good for you.

And she's like, but I got, and I was like, you got a credit card, you got a microwave, you got noodles at your house and you got butter. And you got hot water or you water microwave, like [00:18:00] they can, they can feed in for themselves. And, and going back, and I say this because she was like, you're right. And I was like, hell, you got a credit card?

They can order DoorDash like, like the world will go on. But what's interesting is that when business, I know a couple things happen when we can get to a point where we go, yeah, the role go on. But when it's the other. Party. They look at it as an inconvenience or you're not carrying your weight or, because they don't give all this other weight here.

And so we get penalized when we voice and we say, Hey, I need, and it goes, well, why do you need, we don't need? And it's like, well, you keep, wanna carry my shit.

Maybe you.

Ria Ellen Peake: yeah. I think you've just hit on something quite pertinent in [00:19:00] that I wonder perhaps if it's, there's an element of seen as imperfect, being seen as the imperfect mother, the imperfect wife, the one that can't cope, and what that means to women's identity because. I dunno about you, but in my experience, like if I'm a career woman, I can't also be a, you know, um, a great wife that at some point something's got to give and it's the perpetual sacrifice and it's not even inherently that it's what that then means in terms of how you are perceived. If you are the mum turning up with fricking bags under their eyes and combed hair at the school gates, you are still turning up. that's gonna, that's gonna cause it's gonna rub up something, whether that's in [00:20:00] teachers or in, you know, the way the women look at you, and also then the way your partner looks at you. I dunno if you, if that, if that resonates, but for me it really does. Um, being told that you're not coping, but being penalized and not supported for that. And how, um, how hostile that is, kind of how raw that is. Like I'm only a person, I'm one person, but I'm not allowed even that, does that follow.

Christine Spratley: It does, and I, I kind of take it, I take it into, 'cause I, of course my, I I, I immediately go into business before I go where, um, where I. Nobody else is asking for this. Nobody else is saying this is what's needed. Nobody else is saying the workload's too heavy. Nobody else is saying. And [00:21:00] um, and I remember getting a comment, um, from someone after I was like, Hey, this is, you know, this is was around promotion stuff and, and it wasn't where I wanted to be.

And, and they said, you know, this is what we think you should be at. And I was like, because I had. Told some things about, Hey, this is what the situation, the structure needs to be changed in order for all of us to get there. And all of us met women as well. And so I was kind of, and, and I was told, well, you know, most anybody in your position or, no, it was actually even a little bit more interesting.

It was stated, um, some people in your position would not because of their ego. Would not see what a great opportunity this was. And it was like, because I had voiced, Hey, this is not this, this [00:22:00] is what like I am, this is not equitable in any way, shape or form. And so I got kind of danged on some stuff. Um, and, and I should be damn well great.

Because I'm not performing so like I should be, but yet we get, we, it gets weaponized, whether it be in the house or in in corporate. I can just, I mean, I remember having a conversation where we were at, um, economic area developments, economic economic development leader, women in, I can't even

develop. Um. Women in Economic Development Leadership Forum was last year, and I, I did the kickoff talk there and, and we were there the night before and we were talking, I was talking to the women, you know, I hadn't seen them in a while and in a long time actually, some of them. And one of 'em was telling me about her endometriosis and [00:23:00] how she had to come back.

And she had no time, like, no time. Like she took time off to go, but no time. And then her, her, her KPIs, her key performance indicators and her, her revenue and all of that, she had to immediately kick into. And it was like, why aren't you back? Aren't you back? And it's again, the system, whoa, let's do the same thing to the male anatomy.

You know, be having it and see what you need. And, and again, it's this thing of we get penalized. So she was like, I can't take any more time because I'll start at the bottom. I have, I have a friend who's taken two, two tours. We call 'em tours when you, when you get stepped over in promotion and one because.

Oh, you didn't make your numbers. You, she had her kid

[00:24:00] and then she took another because she had her second job. Meanwhile, they're using her in as A-P-P-M-D and she's the be she was. She was a PP, she was a senior manager, like she was acting as a senior manager when I was there, and that was

Ria Ellen Peake: Mm-hmm.

Christine Spratley: seven, eight years ago. But again, I think it's this thing, and that's where I think the burnout comes from of, wait a minute, the system is not set up to give you what you need.

Their, their system is set up, and again, I, I, I feel kind of like conspiracy theory when I say the system, but it is, it is set up to take from us rather than to get from us.

Ria Ellen Peake: it's, I don't think it's conspiratorial at all. I think it's, it's full on evidence-based. We, we can see this, I mean, terms of. How that works. The system is set up for men, and it's almost as [00:25:00] if, I mean, I've, I've, I've, I've definitely felt this, um, it being the subtext in how I've been treated in the workplace is, oh, well, you know, women asked to be here, you are here.

Keep up. Keep up. You know, it's, it's, it's your, you are taxed. We are being taxed for the fact that we asked to be included, but it's like expecting a. A ball to fit in a square hole or whatever that phrase is. That's like, oh, well come here. But you've got to be the clone of the white dude over there who's looked after at home, who has never born children and doesn't have the biological, the biological differences in which women also experience thinking about pregnancy, thinking about perimenopause.

That affects a huge proportion of women's working lives. bring that here. know, don't bring that to here. We are not here.

Christine Spratley: Yeah.

Ria Ellen Peake: That's exactly it. Like [00:26:00] I,

Christine Spratley: Yeah. You know. Oh, now you're, now you're.

Ria Ellen Peake: exactly. Yeah. Keep up, keep up. You, you, you all wanted to be here, right? You wanted to be included. well, shut up and get on with it. You're, you're giving it. That's enough. Not seeing our value in what we are providing and the fact that in most workplaces, if women weren't there, oh God, I think they'd burn down. You know? Or the people that would at least staff like, come on,

Christine Spratley: Who would take notes? Oh my God.

Ria Ellen Peake: God, would it smell nice?

Christine Spratley: I gotta tell you this story. This is, this is how bad. So I go over to, we had a, we had a dill in Korea, and um, I go over there and I have never, I've never been to Seoul. I don't speak the language. We're in the office and, um, I'm the only female that is in the conference room. We're prepping for this meeting.

And, um, literally they're [00:27:00] like, they, the partner doesn't tell me this. The partner from over there tells my partner this to make, to tell me to go make copies. And so he does, which tells you a lot about the partner at the time. And, uh, and I look at him, I'm like, first of all, I'm the only one that knows this part of this po this, this deal.

Like, my part not, I didn't the whole deal, but this part of this deal. And it's, you know, I kinda need to be there. And, um, second of all, I'm like, think that, think that one through, like, I don't even know, like I'm in seo, Korea, I know where the damn copier is. I, how read it in Korean, like, how the hell is this highest, highest investigation?

Like, come on. That is, that is the level of give. That is that it's just, it's bizarre. And again, and I would just say [00:28:00] not everything's like this. We understand that. But there's a reason I would like listeners, especially women, there's a reason for your burnout and I would love for you to consider, maybe it's not you,

Ria Ellen Peake: Hmm.

Christine Spratley: maybe it's your authorizing environment and it's.

For you to maintain and operate at the level that you can operate on.

Ria Ellen Peake: hundred percent. A hundred percent, a

Christine Spratley: Does that make sense?

Ria Ellen Peake: I think you, you've hit on something that is uncomfortable to acknowledge, but I would say without a doubt, I wonder if there's also an element of that that's not in some, in some of my experience that's not, um, accidental. It's not accidental. And I think you, what you've just [00:29:00] described, the, the anger that, that insights naturally of being treated that way as a woman. I mean, I mean, I'm sure between us we could list off our hours worth of this, but that treatment triggers that physiological change, that that anger, that stress response, which means you don't feel comfortable. Most of where you spend your, your working life, most of where you spend your time of your adult life, you're like this, you're on edge. It's hyper vigilance, it's stress, it's fight flight, it's resentment, and that boils earth. And cycling it back to that definition induces that physical or mental. Emotional illness or disease, right? 'cause we are not at ease. So it's self-fulfilling prophecy that we get taxed and penalized for more. Being told, oh, take a day off. Go to the spa if you can. Most places aren't exactly gonna advocate for that [00:30:00] either, but hey, go fix. Go fix yourself. Go

Christine Spratley: Yeah,

Ria Ellen Peake: problem. Go fix yourself.

Christine Spratley: perfect yourself.

Ria Ellen Peake: no, no. problem starts here. The cause is here we are treating a symptom a systemic misalignment. You know?

Christine Spratley: It's, it's interesting 'cause it's, I, I did this, you know, I like to kinda take apart the myth [00:31:00] and it's like the myth. She needs a break. She needs a. 70% of burnout. Variance is tied to the workplace environment manager, not individual behavior. And this is across the board. So before I, anybody out there going, uh, patriarchy, so you're just banging on this is across the board.

So if it's that across the board, you know that shited for us, you know.

Ria Ellen Peake: Mm-hmm.

Christine Spratley: structural relief, you know, not bubble baths. And you know, I mean, I don't know how many times I have sat getting my nails done. I mean, I can bring people in here. I I used to do it in the hair salon. Go get my hair done. I, I'm working the whole damn time.

I'm doing the whole damn, you know, and it's, and, and, and it's just not, not enough. And then the other myth is she's just not tough enough. We talked about [00:32:00] this earlier. 52% of women report zero hours of restorative time. In a typical day, 52 0 0.

Ria Ellen Peake: under underestimating. I, I would put it at 60 70. Let's be honest.

Christine Spratley: We can't really tell the truth. We can't really tell the, I mean, I would just want my listeners to take a moment and think about your day. Wherever you're listening, whether you're starting, if you're starting your day, think about it yesterday. Okay? If you're at the end of your day, think about your day and go, when did I go?

Was wasn't, and your brain wasn't on. Whether it was about work, whether it was about the kids, whether it was about the husband, whether it was about the, something, something that didn't pertain to you, really, because I've also realized very little of what I think about pertains to my self-care.[00:33:00]

It pertains to a lot of, okay, I gotta organize this, I gotta do this, and, and, and I'm saying. I'm asking you as a listener to sit there and go, okay, what percent, and then my next question, because I always have question questions like how long has it been like that? Like if you look back the last week, what percent each day you take that average.

What percent is restorative? I mean, literally what percent? I mean, let's just look at facts. Let's just look at it and, and if you think that is because you showed up poorly every day, I don't think you're that, that off. It may have something to do that no one's feeding you, you can't feel from an empty cup.

You, you hit this on the head Bria when we first started. It's about fulfillment. The.

If your environment's [00:34:00] not fulfilling you up, how the hell are you gonna continue to give?

Where would that be? And it all runs into each other. I, I think,

I mean, the workplace on the 70, on the 70% burnout was done in 2023. The 52% of women, that number came from her, um, index mental load study in 2024.

So, okay. I mean, and, and Jennifer Cox talks about this in her book. Women are Angry and she gives some great stats in that. But I know you, you've read the book and. My about this did not where it's like, okay, we've got, like you said before we got, we got to come, we got asked and they let us do the dance and we got our, you know, we got our room where we could go and we could nurse and we got, you know, and they [00:35:00] give us certain things.

Is that really fulfilling us? Is that really restorative? Those are nice. But we're still having to get less pay. We're still having to work, do the manager's job, but not be the manager or, you know, like, like there's still, it's all that's in there. And that takes, which adds to burnout.

Ria Ellen Peake: at the word nice. 'cause I don't think it's nice, know? It's, it's not

Christine Spratley: Oh yeah. I don't

Ria Ellen Peake: No.

Christine Spratley: patronizing.

Ria Ellen Peake: is. Nice is receiving a gift. We are not asking for gifts. We're not. It's a luxury. We're asking for very basic essentials that mean that our lives don't make us Ill. That's not nice, you know, but what we're, we're, we're made.

And that's the point we're made to believe or it's addressed as if it is like, oh, right, okay, so you need to breastfeed. Oh, well, you know, don't do it in the hallway. Here's [00:36:00] a room. Oh great, thank you. Let me get on my knees and let me make you tea for the rest of our lives. Nah, nah, nah. You know, do you feel me like this is not nice.

This is wrapped up.

Christine Spratley: This is why I like you so much because every once in a while your Merry Poppins goes to the side and very bad things come out. That song isn't playing in my head and I'm like, you are right. Motherfucker. Quit making me sick. I'd like to show up enough today. You know, it's kinda like lead. We don't put lead in paint anymore.

Come on. You know, I think you guys can do it, you know? I get it. I totally get it. And it's so true. It's so amazing how, and Joe, I really wish you had your mic on. Not that I wanna throw you underneath the water or anything like that, but I, I'm just really tr I, I've just really, I wanna Mels not, and, and you're, you're a good [00:37:00] guy.

Joe's a good guy. Um, and he, he, um, ask his kids, man, they, he was telling me some stories anyway, but I'm curious about how this sounds like to us and, 'cause I think men don't, they, they don't think about going to work in. Being sick and it physically affecting their work until they've been running, running, running, running.

Because it does happen. I mean, it does. That does happen. I'm mental burnout out and all that, but I think the system is set up a lot more to, oh, well you're here. Please sit down and shut up and be grateful. And really it's like, do you realize how fast I could run if I had all the things I like need just to.

Perform at like a normal level. I'm just curious. Yeah, I, I think it all makes sense to me. I was just in a podcast not too long ago with a trauma therapist, Uhhuh, and I learned something that I didn't know. I kind of like, what I think most [00:38:00] people wrongly assume is that trauma is like a, like a, it's a one time thing.

Like there was this trauma and then now this person has to deal with trauma. Um, but as the guy was explaining, he was like, you know, it can be like long spread out over time. And he was talking about racism, which is, you know, if you always feel. Like, you know, if you were, if you were always feeling the, the effects of racism, it's a low grade simmer trauma.

Yeah. Which has been going on and on and on and on. I think that's what you guys are describing, like Yeah. A lot of men, they don't understand like, no, it's, it's different for women than it is for men. And it's just this low grade simmer that never lets up and that is, that is a form of trauma.

Ria Ellen Peake: it.

Christine Spratley: Yeah. I know you know this, so I wanna ask you, 'cause I think also with trauma, 'cause this, we, we we're gonna do a segment on workplace trauma 'cause there's some trauma shit happening that, that I didn't even realize was happening to me.

But talk [00:39:00] about the repetition of that low grade swimmer because physi your, your body,

Ria Ellen Peake: that's

Christine Spratley: literally

Ria Ellen Peake: it.

Christine Spratley: makes you.

Ria Ellen Peake: and I think when we, as you mentioned earlier, we were talking about that. The chronic, um, the chronic taxation on women in the workplace just simply for being there in that form, in that body, and coming up against that day in and day in and day in and day in. It's the switching on of the stress response.

It's the cortisol always being elevated. It's the adrenaline always running and. some point, when you get that chronic stress on the body that starts to break down, it starts to malfunction, the nervous system starts to malfunction, the immune system starts to malfunction, that also of course affects us e emotionally. It mostly. You know, you get that I am [00:40:00] running on empty. then because of that, you know, maybe you do miss a task, maybe you do miss a deadline and you are penalized for it, which elevates it more. So you get this almost. Like I said, that kind of self propagating negative spiral, which is when you become the woman that needs a break, right?

You become the stereotype that they already thought you were back then 'cause they never gave you a fricking shot in the first place. So it's. the cards are already stacked and they're just sat there kind of going, oh yeah, you, you make the tea. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, you know, oh, who am I gonna be a little bit aggressive with today?

Oh, not, not the guy I relate with because I look like him, but Oh, you know, you you know, we've not even touched on set like actual, um, sexual harassment in the workplace, and I think that needs a whole other thing. You know? I can only imagine.

Christine Spratley: that's.

Ria Ellen Peake: it's that we know [00:41:00] depression comes from chronic stress, but biologically so it's, it's almost as if, you know, is anybody surprised that this impacts women more?

'cause we are also only touching on the one plate here. She's spinning five others, you know, so

Christine Spratley: Right, and not only that. It's that environment. Plus when I went through menopause,

Ria Ellen Peake: Hmm.

Christine Spratley: huh? I'm bury menopause like, like then there's shit going on in your body like, like that I don't have any control over where I never had anxiety walking into certain meetings and I had anxiety. I never, you know, I never had sweats and hair falling out and stuff like, and now I've got that and the shit.

And I remember this like the clear as day. I would about two o'clock in the afternoon, I'd be like [00:42:00] two between two and 30. I'd be like, fuck, what are we gonna have for dinner? And I'd be like, gotta get this. I gotta review this. You know, because everybody's giving you shit in the afternoon to review and stuff.

And I'd be like, oh, get this. I'd be like, oh my God, for dinner. What he like and, and I'm just saying that is a guy was. I didn't have a bunch of kids running around. I had two step kids that came, you know, stayed with us occasionally. Um, I mean, they stayed with us a lot when they were younger. And then in high school they were like, fuck, we don't wanna see you anyway.

Um, just give us money. But about that time I would start, I would, and it would just, I would get so anxious. It was like you said, it was another plate. It was, and then it was like, uh, nothing. And you gotta do it. You gotta figure it out. You gotta, and it was just always more. I think it goes, I think it goes back to if you're not burn, that's fine.[00:43:00]

And, and we haven't even touched on the levels of burnout because I think we, my pain tolerance is so high that I'm burn out way before I drop dead or not dropped up and drop and fall and, and, and that's just because I'm conditioned, I'm conditioned.

Ria Ellen Peake: there's,

Christine Spratley: it.

Ria Ellen Peake: there's another level here. There's another angle that I think is quite interesting that we've touched on this kind of chronic activation of the stress response is chronic neurological overstimulation means that actually we disconnect Because, you know, and like you said, we crash out, we get to a point where we are not listening to this.

So by the time the body's going, girl, like, this isn't sustainable, this isn't, you know, you need to look at this. We're not hearing it. Like you said, it's gotta be at us [00:44:00] the, the ability to stay in one's body as a woman. Is very challenging for a lot of different reasons because it's picking up on stuff that we don't want to hear, that we know.

For example, in the boardroom, you've got someone over there rolling an eye because, oh, it's a woman's getting emotional. Oh, oh. You know, or you know the guy that's eyeing you a little bit wrong and you're going, I don't like that. I know what you're doing and I have to ignore it now because this is a workplace and if I'm accusing you, then oh, I might ruin your career.

God forbid. know, it's that chronic, constant, pervasive aggression that we have to ignore. That means we don't know when we're sick. We know when we're on, we're crashing, and we are on our knees. We don't know when we're slowly falling down. On. And I think it's a skill to learn to tune into that. But it takes work.

And when you're burnt out, that's the last fucking thing you need. My fundamental point is we've got to [00:45:00] be dead. I. Before we start to consider who's giving to us, who's not just rocking, taking,

Christine Spratley: And I, I think that the one thing and we'll go into, 'cause this is if, if you're wondering where we're going with this, this is one of two, so we're not just gonna leave it here, but we're are going to have a, Hey, how do, like what do you do? What do you do when you, how do you start to realize you're falling and not.

Not, um,

Ria Ellen Peake: Mm-hmm.

Christine Spratley: or that you're, you're burned out. Like you're done. Fucking done. And um, and then what do you do about that? And then also, um, 'cause re you've got some things, and then I've got some things about how you can communicate some of that in relationships. Um, it's kind of funny because I, I've learned that by not doing some of those things and, um, and not having my partner, I.

Do those things of checking in and saying, Hey, what [00:46:00] is this like for you? But I wanna go, I wanna share with our listeners, um, we, we talked about this, you have a story of burnout, a time when you hit and what that looked like. Like when you were like, like we can talk about the falling, but like when you got to wherever that burnt

Ria Ellen Peake: Mm.

Christine Spratley: place was.

What that I'm gonna share mine.

Ria Ellen Peake: Yeah,

Christine Spratley: Um, and I didn't, even after I went through it, I didn't know that was, I didn't know that's what it looked like and I was told that by someone else. I'm curious for you.

Ria Ellen Peake: Exactly the same in terms of, I didn't know, didn't have the word for it in terms of where I was, but it was, I think the one day I realized that I had this moment of going, I'm not invincible. that might sound ridiculous, but I thought I [00:47:00] was. I thought if I just got. You know, another coffee, if I got an extra hour of sleep the next day, I'd be okay. I was not, I, I woke up and it was if my body had died and I, I was still in it as, as, as bizarre as that sounds, that that was the feel of it. when I look back, it's. It's in, uh, it, it's so obvious as to why, you know, it was, um, I was wor, I worked through the entirety of the pandemic at hospitals assessment centers.

Christine Spratley: You had just gone through, you had lost all these things, like you had worked and then, you know, and then, but what, so you woke up and you were like, okay.

Ria Ellen Peake: I woke up. I tried to go about my day. I was in my car going to work. My hands shaking, focusing on the road in front of me. I got out of my car and I was walking to go into the building to do an on-call [00:48:00] shift, and I just, I, I just couldn't, I was out of breath. The, the, the physically, like the, the, the, the, my vision was blurred.

Everything was spinning and I sat down and I went. Re, you now have to see probably 50 sick people. And to be honest, you are probably more ill than most of the people you are going to see today. And that idea, I remember sitting there thinking like, how can I care for people? I, if I'm honest, have lived on cereal, bars, coffee, three hours, sleep, and hypervigilance for the past three and a half years.

I can't tell people they're sick. I could barely string a sentence together. And to be honest, Christine, it was scary. It was really scary because I thought I could do everything and people were [00:49:00] still looking at me expecting to be the one making it better for them, literally physically, because that was my job.

But also that was my role. Everyone around me. Oh, real. No, fix it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, we'll do that. Like. She would, but she's dead, you know? And that really how it felt.

Christine Spratley: Well, and, and your body is like, is your, his dad

Ria Ellen Peake: Yeah.

Christine Spratley: very relaxed.

Ria Ellen Peake: Yeah.

Christine Spratley: Yeah. It's mine was mine, mine 'cause I wasn't as in tune with my body.

Ria Ellen Peake: Mm.

Christine Spratley: But, um, mine started to look like the, one of the first symptoms was I started not giving crap about things that I liked. And not, not depression, but like work, like projects.

I was doing big projects and I was, and and, and they were great. They were complex. And I remember this one was, and, [00:50:00] and I just was like, and, and thank God I had a great manager at the time. And you just knew the numbers. I mean, you always knew, and I could always, once I knew numbers, I could boom, boom, boom, boom.

But I just was like, ah, whatever. And what happened was is his dad got, I. And it was the second time and his dad ended up passing. And I said, you go take care of that. And this is, this is when I started to realize, I was like, something was, I mean, and I had known and I was trying to go, what happened was I knew that I didn't wanna do what I was doing, so I thought it was just work.

That's all was wrong with me. It's just work I need to find, I love. And so I found it, but I couldn't do it yet 'cause I'll just tough it out and I, so I'm gonna fill my bucket and do it at work a little bit and over here. But I was, I was, I was falling, I was still, I was losing ground. And he took off and it was the end of the year and we had all of the compliance for one of our clients too.

And he had worked so hard on setting up certain systems and I mean, he's just [00:51:00] really good. And um, and I came into it and I was so disconnected that I was like, like you said, people would just assume. And I always had the Cliff notes as long as he was around and I could, you know, and I'd check his stuff and everything, but I, you know, it's easier reading the Cliff notes than it is 30 paid contract and five of 'em.

And, um, but he wasn't there with the numbers. He wasn't there with the dates and we had to bring in some other people that weren't familiar and it had to be done right. And what I realized is if I really wanted to support him, because he was the type of person that his dad was dying and he would check in.

Be like, don't forget this deadline. Duh. This is where this, and I kept going, you need to knock it off, Jason, knock it off. Quit fucking doing this. Like go be, go be. And um, and I thought, Christine, you can't let, he has put so much time and effort, you cannot screw this up. I was, [00:52:00] so, I had to get back into it and then, but I, I, that's when I realized how far away I was from Now, I don't need to know every detail in my position, but I need to be able to step in and make sure that the people I care about can go, I can support him.

Ria Ellen Peake: Mm-hmm.

Christine Spratley: really, I'm supporting you as a, as your, you know, as your team leader, whatever, then that means when your, when your family gets sick, I don't let things drop.

I care enough about you to do my, to make sure my shit's good. And that's when I was like, wow, you, you not only don't care about these way big flashy projects that everybody wants. You say, well, whatever, okay, something's off. But when I really got to a point, um, and I had been going to to therapy. And, um, and this describes me physically and it describes me emotionally, um, where I was my counselor therapist, [00:53:00] Karen told me, I, I sent her my, um, speaker video and she started crying when she watched it. And then she said, what you don't realize is when you came in here four years ago. You would go and you would sit in that corner, you'd come in all, you know, looking good, go sit in that corner, that couch, and you'd get scooted way back and you wouldn't make any eye contact. And you know me, I'm like, eye contact con, you know, con here, boom.

And um, I, and she said, you just cry. You'd cry and you and you. And then you say, well, I gotta do this and I gotta do that. And you just cry. Then she said, and, and you do that for, for weeks, and then it turned into a month and, and, and you, you know, and, but you'd never make eye contact. And, um, she said you tried to get as small as you could and then about 10 sale the hours up. You'd notice the time. And I this.[00:54:00]

Ria Ellen Peake: Yeah,

Christine Spratley: you straighten up and you'd sit up and you'd wrap up the session and you'd walk out. And I remember times I would do that and I would go do those really big deals

Ria Ellen Peake: Yeah.

Christine Spratley: I would go into those rooms. And what I don't think I understood at the time, and when I, and I've talked to you about this, you know, we've talked about it today, about the levels of stress, of the chronic stress and the cortisol levels.

All that's still going on inside of me. When I'm walking back into a situation where I'm still getting more of it, more stress and more stuff on top of it. So not only have I not, I have no relief to begin with. My baseline is now a, a yeah. And, and, and you just start piling. And she's like, and I just didn't realize 'cause I had no idea that I was that disintegrated.

Ria Ellen Peake: Yeah.[00:55:00]

Christine Spratley: And, and again, I wasn't on HRT, you know, which is a, which is something that I had to learn about. But take that aside, those other stressors, are systemic still there.

Ria Ellen Peake: Um, yeah, and I think that's exactly the thing because even during mine, I was going to therapy, I was doing yoga, and I, in myself, I was like, oh, well if I just get up an hour earlier and I could do this, I'll be able to do that. And then I'll be able to do that. And it's a plaster. We'll put in plasters on plasters, on plasters.

Realizing that the more we, we'll keep putting, like thinking we we're putting, um, we're repairing the tire, right, but we're running the tread. We're never stopping the tread down. And it's like you can only kind of bend yourself so many ways until you will break no matter what happens. Because as you say, it's external.

It's the setup and it's us trying to fix it in [00:56:00] us, and we can't because it doesn't start with us that, the downfall is a symptom. It's not the cause as you say. But I think that the issue with being so depleted, and I know in myself is I couldn't make a decision. I didn't know. I knew I wasn't happy, but I was so fucked that I couldn't, I couldn't fix the mess I was in.

It took so long to have the energy to figure out and to look around and go, oh shit, this was inevitable. 'cause this what it's like to live as an adult woman. It's really fucking hard.

Christine Spratley: and I remember I remember having conversations, especially about my work. Hey, I really don't, because I hated, I hated revenue time. I hated it. I know, I know. Some of them just went through it with the end of fiscal year end and I was talking to, oh God, it's brutal. It's so brutal. They laid off. I mean, the numbers and the numbers and you better meet 'em.

Or you, I mean, you're just gone. That's the way [00:57:00] it and everybody, and I just hated it. I just, oh God. I would get itchy and I would get, ugh. And I remember talking to my, to my husband and he was like, well, you can do what you want. And I was like, oh, great, then you are gonna come into the private sector and you're gonna go make some, make the money.

And I mean, he made good money, but, you know, whatever. And he is like, oh, we'll just, you know, we can live on less. And I was like, and that's, that's the thing is if we don't hold it all, then we, then everybody has to go down a notch and a notch. And, and so I remember that years before I even started thinking I wasn't fulfilled.

I remember going, oh, I don't like this. And so I'd like, because we're gonna have this other episode here, I'd write our listeners to do for today, is think about restorative in the last day, take the last day. [00:58:00] How much time have you just. Sense to restorative, not yoga, but like filled your heart and breathe and just did that. Not I've gotta, I'm gonna meditate and I'm gonna write out my feelings. No, just fucking be

Ria Ellen Peake: Um,

Christine Spratley: shut it down. You know? Or whatever's restorative. Truly restorative. And for me, I was so far away from understanding what that was. I thought it was a therapy session. I thought it was all this stuff.

Ria Ellen Peake: yeah.

Christine Spratley: again, whatever it is, because you probably got very little of it to begin with.

And then look at the last week and see how much you've averaged. Okay? And then if you're not, if you're not burnout, okay, just start looking at your systems. You're authorizing environment and going, huh, what could, what could give me more? What 1% my coach? What 1%? Something that could give me more, somebody do this instead of, you [00:59:00] know, leverage down or honey, can you empty the dishwasher on a regular basis without me having to tell you or remind you. You know? But that's, that's the thing though, those little things, because we're hypervigilant. So listeners, what is one, what are one or two things, things. You know that you can go here, here, here. I, I, I need this. I'll, I'll perform, but I need this to perform. We'll do this contract this way. You want the same level of performance and maybe, probably even better. Hmm. give me 1% more. Gimme 5% more. I don't know what that is, but just explore, because I, I don't know a lot of women. That aren't in a system that [01:00:00] isn't giving to the full potential.

Ria Ellen Peake: And can I add with that request? When you do make the request, look at who grants it willingly, because that will tell you a lot about fulfillment and why you might feel how you feel.

Christine Spratley: Yeah. And it will also tell you how they value you.

Ria Ellen Peake: Exactly.

Christine Spratley: And that's a very hard thing for me to ask. And one, one person, of all the things that you ask or think about. One person that I really want my listeners, 'cause this is hard for me, I do it with is yourself. You know, if you're saying you've got enough restorative, is it 20%?

Is it 50%? Is it six? Why is that enough?

Ria Ellen Peake: yes.

Christine Spratley: Is it more? Why aren't you worth more than that? Oh, the kids are worth more than this. Or the, no, no, no, no, no. You [01:01:00] can't fill from an empty cup. So like why? Why? Just say to yourself, why are you not granting it willingly? Why do you not value yourself? So with that, we are going to wrap up and we're going to do another episode, and we're gonna talk about all the different ways we can see the falling and all the different ways that we can, um, get restorative

Ria Ellen Peake: Hmm.

Christine Spratley: and change the structures around us, or invite people to change the structures around us and what to do when they don't. to do when they do

riverside_ria_ellen peake_raw-synced-video-cfr_fuck_fear_0058: Hmm.

Christine Spratley: next time. [01:02:00]