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Welcome to The Health & Wellness Practitioners Podcast! Dr. Danielle and other guest experts talk about everything from getting your practice started, developing your clinical skills, growing your practice YOUR way, and dealing with the real stuff life burnout and work/life balance. Whether you’ve been practicing for decades or just started your journey, you’ll find something here for you!
DR. DANIELLE: Hello, Everyone. So I have Dr. Satya Sardonicus here with me today and we connected through Facebook last week because there was a question in a Facebook group and I had mentioned something that I had been experiencing. And then you saw it, you reached out and we had a conversation and I was like, we need to share this information with more people because I didn't learn what we're talking about in chiropractic school. I only learned it through my own experience, life experience, and then looking at myself and my family members through the lens of a chiropractor who was also experiencing these things and seeing them happening for other people. So do you want to share a bit about what you saw in the post that had you reach out and say, Hey, have you considered this thing?
DR. SATYA: I think the original post was someone asking about change in head position temporarily removing her hearing.
DR. DANIELLE: Yes. She was saying that when she puts herself in the Mackenzie's extension position, so like laying prone and kind of doing a Cobra position, if you know yoga, that her hearing would go away. And I think I may have been the first person to comment and I said, Interesting, because I don't know why that's happening, but when I lay prone, I put myself in Mackenzie's extension, my head has been throbbing and pounding lately, and it's only been going on for a few months. And then I just put that comment there curious to see what other people say, and then you reached out and you said, have you considered cerebellar tonsillar ectopia? And I was like, no, actually, but why hadn't I because it makes perfect sense with all these other things. And so yeah, we talked more about that.
DR. SATYA: It's wild, how common it is and how missed it is as well. So CTE, which the abbreviation is not to be confused with the work of Dr. Ben Omalu upon whom the movie Concussion was based. He dissected the brains and did autopsies on football players and found that they had chronic traumatic encephalopathy. Which really just means they had multiple brain traumas. Who's surprised about that, right? And it's interesting because the symptoms have a lot of overlap in a venn diagram sort of away with cerebellar tonsillar ectopia. Chronic traumatic encephalopathy can't be diagnosed without an autopsy you don't know in your life, but the traumatic impact to the brain when we've had any kind of inertial injury, whether that's whiplash, which we often don't think of as a brain injury, but think about the brain inside it will hit the skull. You can't have whiplash that kind of inertial injury without also having a brain trauma. And whiplash, concussion, and even sometimes small trauma can trigger a previously asymptomatic ectopia of the cerebellar tonsil, so where the cerebellum, the lower part of it is herniated out through the foramen magnum.
THE INTERCONNECTEDNESS OF THE BODY AND BRAIN: EHLERS-DANLOS EXAMPLE
DR. DANIELLE: So one of the reasons why when you reached out and asked about this, it wasn't surprising to me was because I and several of my family members have Ehlers-Danlos and it's a connective tissue disorder that is related to a lot of other things, mass cell - am I saying the right thing, mass cell activation disorder? Lots of things that you wouldn't necessarily associate with a connective tissue because we're told first of all, I don't think I ever heard the words Ehlers-Danlos syndrome in chiropractic school, even though it's a connective tissue disorder, you would think that we would be aware of that kind of condition because we're moving bones, right? We're moving joints that have connective tissues surrounding them.
But that aside, we're generally just told that Ehlers-Danlos hypermobility or hyper elasticity and that people will have excessive range of motion, but it's a whole lot more than that, which I never knew about all the other things until after one of my children. Let's see, she's seven now. She was around the age of one or two, and I could just tell there was something going on with her connective tissue and also some of her behavior. And I thought this all looks a lot like my siblings who were very hyper mobile and what else is going on?
One thing led to another, I somehow found a book that I read called The Driscoll Theory. And it was written by a person who was an optometrist, but she studied Ehlers-Danlos, and the relationship between that and POTS and Mass Cell Activation Disorder and nutrition and medications and et cetera. And her book blew my mind open. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is why my siblings have had this and this and this as well, and why I have this and this and this going on. And also why my child displays these symptoms, these signs - it took what I thought was like a, Oh, your joints are really bendy and flexible, and you're great at cheerleading and gymnastics.
DR. SATYA: We're often not considering, I mean, when I went to chiropractic school, we learned what Ehlers-Danlos was, like you said, hypermobility, ligament laxity, whatever, that was it. And that was like for boards, but there wasn't that bringing it through to what are the clinical implications? And I've worked with quite a few people with that condition in my practice. And every time their sympathetics are sky high, which if you think about it, if joints are unstable, then it's going to create alarm signals in the brain. And how that's going to affect if you're not stable, especially around the brainstem and the spinal cord, of course it's going to have secondary effects with the adverse mechanical tension that ends up being created on physically the central nervous system.
And there's so much overlap with that and cerebellar tonsillar ectopia. This is all very developing information. I've been teaching about this for the past 12 years, and every time I teach I'm teaching some updated pieces, because we're still really getting to understand it more of, like you said, we weren't taught about these things in school, CTE. You know, I was taught in school about Arnold-Chiari malformation which type one is also called cerebellar tonsillar ectopia, which can be post traumatic. But the way we're taught in school is the back of the skull didn't close, the brain's like 30 millimeters herniated, it’s this birth defect, right? And there's very little conversation about the association with trauma and even small trauma creating really bizarre, bigger responses, right? Like you've probably had people who had a little fender bender and then their spine, their nervous system's acting like it's huge whiplash, right? Which I have had several times before anybody knew that my brain was herniated. I had like a five mile an hour fender bender. And I was in a neck brace for three months under my dad's care. Like so ridiculous.
DR. DANIELLE: Is your dad a chiropractor?
DR. SATYA: He is. I'm actually the seventh chiropractor in my family.
DR. DANIELLE: Wow. That's amazing. So I have zero chiropractors in my own family. And no one really had worked in healthcare before I did. So yeah, that's really interesting to think about.
DR. SATYA: Yeah. And even they didn't consider it because they weren't taught in school. And even when I was going, when I was about to start chiropractic school, my dad was like, I really hope that you can find somebody there who can help figure this out. Because I started collapsing when I was 16, had my first drop attack where it's like fainting, but you don't pass out. I just turned to mush on the floor, all my muscles, and they were like, oh, you have chronic fatigue. You like adrenal fatigue. You're doing too much. You need to do less stuff. Right? And actually they told me I had worse adrenal fatigue than most med students when they graduate from medical school.
LIVING WITH CEREBELLAR TONSILLAR ECTOPIA
DR. DANIELLE: Based off of your symptoms or based off of your lab results?
DR. SATYA: Oh gosh, I think I had labs also. I did have adrenal fatigue. It's true, but that's often secondary to something else and it can be secondary to overworking, but it can also be secondary to having a chronically elevated sympathetic nervous system that is demanding the adrenals, like overtaxing the adrenals. And in my case, it had a lot to do with the distorted nociceptive and proprioceptive balance. Just didn't know that. I was in a really major car accident when I was seven. And I have three herniated discs in my neck and one of my low back from that accident. So we think that's probably when my brain got herniated, but nobody knew until twenty years later when it was 26 in chiropractic school.
DR. DANIELLE: So what was chiropractic school like for you?
DR. SATYA: It was really challenging, like just physically, logistically. I was used as an example in my neuro-di classes because I had every positive pathological reflex. I had regular electric shocks down my arms and legs. I was collapsing by that time, 20, 30, sometimes 40 times on a bad day. And I just collapsed and be on the floor. I had missed a lot of class because I'd be in the hall, on the floor or at home, unable to drive. I'm very grateful it didn't affect me academically. My cognitive function wasn't affected at that time. And so I was able to get through school and thanks to some very understanding teachers and the dean. But it was really hard. I couldn't let anyone touch me. I could barely touch my own neck. So I faced a lot of things like my classmates would be upset with me because I wasn't letting them practice on me. Like I was being a princess which was really hard. And because I didn't have - this isn't like a visible condition or injury, and so it's also really hard to understand because sometimes I would collapse, like when there was a loud sound like a door slamming or something, but sometimes I didn't know what the trigger was.
And so it's hard for people to understand just how much pain I was in or just how much dysfunction I was experiencing without thinking both that I was faking or that I was all in my head, you know? And I had a lot of doctors tell me when they couldn't figure out what was going on. Because you know, I started collapsing when I was 16. Nobody knew until I was 26. And in that time I developed hallucinations and tachycardia altering with bradycardia, just sitting still. Like POTS, it wasn't even postural. It was like not moving my heart rate was wildly erratic. And so I got I and I was trying to figure all of that out while in school. And I consulted with Dr. Donofrio and Dr. Carrick, Dan Murphy. And literally nobody even considered this as a differential and all the functional neuro tests would just crash me. I couldn't even handle the testing. So much of chiropractic is very forceful and so even when I was trying to get help, I was under NUCCA care with Dr. Zella, like I think there's like what?
Six to people at the highest level of certification in NUCCA he's one of them. And like he would adjust me, he'd take an x-ray and be like, oh yeah, your Atlas is to the left. He'd adjust me. And I could barely breathe and couldn't walk for 30 minutes after every adjustment. And he said to me, you're retracing. Now I've been adjusted since birth - I can't retrace. Like that's not a thing. My nervous system was freaking out and thank goodness I have no permanent damage. But we found out when I had the upright MRI that finally diagnosed that my brain is herniated, the left side herniated further than the right. My atlas was accommodating. It created a subluxation to splint, to protect, and they were adjusting my atlas into my brain.
CRITICAL THINKING FOR BETTER PATIENT CARE
DR. DANIELLE: It's unbelievable. As you shared what you were sharing about the upright MRI and having your atlas adjusted and all those things, at a minimum and there's so many other layers too, this is a reminder to all of us of the liability that we have to be thorough with every patient that we see because especially when they have symptoms such as yours that are unexplained, we can't just chalk them up to these intuitive, random things. We really have to be careful.
DR. SATYA: We need to use our critical thinking skills. And the biggest takeaway that I had from that, because my experience with NUCCA was the same with several other kinds of upper cervical care, which is to say, we can't only look at what's going on mechanically and say, okay, there's a subluxation here. We have to say, does it actually need to be adjusted? Because yes, having my atlas misaligned, absolutely causes other neurological challenges. But if my body wasn't prepared to let it go, if we have a restriction, that's there, it may be like, how do you know the difference between something that's bracing in a protective way versus it needs to be adjusted. And my atlas totally needs to be adjusted. And now however many years later, more than a decade, I get HVLA adjusted and it's important.
So it's not completely 100% contraindicated. It's understanding how to read the nervous system and tell when there's a sympathetic activation. Even as you're going to set up, if there's that bracing, you've got to find to navigate and partner dance, not drag a toddler kicking and screaming. These considerations are not even just relevant for CTE, but for all kinds of connective tissue challenges, and for everybody, like sure, some people can tolerate it. But if your patient's nervous system is tolerating an adjustment, it’s is just going to go back anyway. You're going to adjust the same thing over and over for the rest of their life and say, oh, it's just their listing. Except if the body's self-healing then why are we saying that your listings are permanent?
DR. DANIELLE: Well, that's a low lot of chiropractors that you've described right there. Because we do feel so commonly that we're just adjusting the same things over and over again. And that's a delicate thing because I also want to acknowledge that there's this thing that I see, especially in women chiropractors where - not the group, by the way, female chiropractors - are on this never ending quest for more information, more education and continuing to learn because we never feel good enough. Never feeling good enough like if you have to know more to help people better to grow your business, to be worthy of charging the fees, you want to charge whatever it is. That's one aspect of this. But the other aspect is that we feel like we're addressing the same things over and over again. And are we really helping people?
IS UNITY THE ANSWER FOR CHIROPRACTORS?
DR. SATYA: I have a few things to say about that. Because I think about these things so much. And especially coming from a chiropractic family and they're all in different techniques and then also just getting into practice and being like, okay, what am I doing? What's the point of my care? Well, we've all experienced and witnessed chiropractic miracles. And I was like, well, how do I do that on purpose? How do I do that more consistently? And there's so much talk in our profession about unification as the answer, like we need to standardize, right? That's how we're going to get consistent results.
DR. DANIELLE: The unification thing drives me batty.
DR. SATYA: Right. But I have the answer. I have it. When we talk about technique, we're talking about three different things we're talking about: what's wrong, how do I measure it, and how do I fix it? And if we can all get on the same page about what's wrong and how to measure it, then you keep your artistry, your intuition, your dance in the, the corrective. But you need to have your exam, your pre and post checks, your objective measures, not just x-ray, that's not the only objective Richard. Right. Of am I actually creating this change for people? And for me it was a lot about, well, how do I get the body to heal itself more not how do I, the doctor, like fix all of the subluxations or all of the imbalances or all of the gut imbalance or hormone imbalance or whatever, you know, but how do I get the body to heal itself? And that means that we have to look at the autonomic nervous system. We have to look at sympathetic versus parasympathetic dominance, because if that's out of whack the body isn't even prioritizing healing. And if we can measure those things, then you do whatever you want in your technique artistry, just make sure you're tracking. Is the person receptive to even have a change in this moment? Are we integrating that change? Are we, you know, like those pieces?
DR. DANIELLE: Yeah. There's so much that we could talk about in regards to this topic, because there's so many layers to it. I think I have a couple more questions for you. And then I want you to share what you have coming up, where people can learn more. Who decided to order the upright MRI?
DR. SATYA: Life West has an upright MRI and that's where I went to school and they ordered an MRI looking for multiple sclerosis plaques in my brain, thinking that I had MS. But because the school has an upright MRI, they're like, you're going to be upright. So it was the synchronicity of just that technology existing in that place. They were not looking for CTE. And in fact, I had an MRI two years earlier at school where it was not caught because nobody understood how common this was until a few months before my second MRI, the radiologist thank goodness had read an article that came out in June 2010 in the journal Brain where they took 1200 people with neck pain, and half of them had a history of whiplash or concussion, like ever, not recently, necessarily and half didn't. And they called that group the non trauma group, which I have attended enough births to disagree with that terminology.
But they compared upright and recumbent MRI because most MRI is done laying down and they found upright two and a half times more sensitive at finding this condition because gravity reduces the herniation when you lay down. And so you can see a couple millimeter difference. And if it's just a few millimeters herniated, which will absolutely create squishing of the brainstem and the cerebellar tonsil, create turbulence in the CSF flow, creating a cervical junction any dissension at all is going to create those problems. But if it's just a few millimeters out and then you lay down and it reduces it and it gets missed. So that was one big finding of the study.
But the thing that blew me away is that in the non trauma group, people who have no reported history of trauma and they just have neck pain, like how many people have neck pain, right? One in twenty of those people have some degree of brain herniation. And if you've had one head injury or whiplash, it goes up to one in four. It gets misdiagnosis, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, multiple sclerosis, Lymes disease. Like they considered heavy metal poisoning and brain cancer. Like they couldn't figure out what was going on with
DR. DANIELLE: EMF poisoning, I’m sure, is another one that made the list.
DR. SATYA: And I'm not saying that none of those are real, but the people are suffering and it's getting worse and worse. And most of all, I've had so many patients way more than I wish to admit for them that their neurologist saw the cerebellar tonsil being low, saw it outside of the brain, outside of the foramen magnum and said, this has nothing to do with your tinnitus, nausea, heart issues, dizziness, but we don't know what's causing that, but it couldn't be this.
DR. DANIELLE: Migraines, ocular migraines.
DR. SATYA: Chronic migraines - actually that study was with neck pain - neck pain's not even the most common symptom headache is. And someday when I'm like, okay, yep, I have time to think about this, I have been knowing that I need to do some research to partner with somebody who has an upright MRI and do that study, replicate it, but with headache because headaches are more common. It's the most common symptom.
So you’ve got chronic effects of whiplash or persistent headache, dizziness, especially positional changes, creates bizarre neurological symptoms like loss of sensory or distortion of sensory function, brain stem, even I was in another car accident. So I was like six years out of chiropractic school, most of the way better finally because I developed these non-invasive techniques. I was basically told I needed brain surgery to cut off that part of my brain. Like I don't need it. This is what they do. This is what they do when you're diagnosed medically. Or cut off the back of the occiput, and maybe the posterior arch of C1, C2 to decompress. And I'm like, won’t my brain keep falling? And they're like, we're going to put some netting. I was like, this sounds not good. And another doctor's like, we're going to cut the filum terminale. We're going to cut where the spinal cord attaches to the tailbone. So it can't pull. And I was like, then it's just going to be dangling there. I feel like that's not good. And so I was like, all right, well, what do I do? Let me look into cranial osteopathy. Let me look in and out of chiropractic for how I can accomplish the same mechanical results of alleviating compression, alleviating axial pull, non invasively. And that grew into neuro fashional integration. The work that I have been doing for the past over a decade. And so anyway, so I was six years out and I was most of the way better. And I was in another car accident, 2014 or 15. I don't remember anymore. I was stopped and rear-ended at 50 miles an hour by a woman texting and driving; herniated my brain out further, like atlas compressing my jugular vein, heat regulation doesn't work in my brain, like insane.
And I went to see the leading neurologist, medical neurologist in Oregon, where I was living at the time because it was a car accident. So I needed to see somebody who's officially on the record of an expert because they don't trust chiropractors. And this man I was having like I had to wear ear plugs, my heart was crazy. And any sensory input was making me stop breathing. Like all my muscles would go weak, including to breathe and talk. And he goes, you need to be in the ER on a ventilator. You also separately need to see a cardiologist for the heart issues. You also need to like, you want to see me all these different specialists. And I was like, sir, you need to order and operate MRI. I have a history of CTE and these are all brain stem related symptoms I'm having. I had to tell him what to order. How much you want to bet he charged my insurance for a 99205 after a 10 minute visit and got paid out $700 for that.
But they have no idea. They have no idea. He called me three weeks later. He goes, oh my God, you're having cerebellar tonsillar attacks. And I'm like, yeah, sure, give it that name. But like, this is what I told you, medical neurologists, nobody understands. And they're not putting the pieces together that are very simple of adverse mechanical tension on the brain stem creating a host of weird neurological symptoms. This needs to be done like upright MRI needs to be done so much more frequently, but there are tests that you can do to check for if you think that an MRI should be taken, but memorize the only way to see it a hundred percent.
BLESSINGS AND CURSES OF EXPERIENCING MEDICAL TRAUMA
DR. DANIELLE: Having had these experiences, I think that in the positive psychology realm, people would say you are given these challenges to be able to go out and share them with other people and to teach other people about these things. I'm just curious to hear from you if you feel like that's true for you? I think that it's a very delicate question because you can feel that that's true for you and also still be angry that you've had to go through these things at the same time.
DR. SATYA: I've got to be honest, I'm not angry. And there was a time a couple of years ago. It was probably about five years ago. I had to go, I had to close my practice and go to another state for a month, three weeks to take care of a young woman at 35 who doctors were waiting for her to die. Her aunt was my patient. That's why she knew about me, but nobody knew what was wrong with her. She couldn't leave the house. She literally couldn't leave the house. Her mom had to come once a week and put water into four ounce plastic water bottles, because that's the most weight she could lift.
She had been wasting away for 20 years. Nobody knew why; she'd flown all over the world, clinic to clinic. Nobody could figure it out. So she'd been housebound for five years and I had to go so slowly with her that I was able to write down the steps. I was able to figure out what to do. I had her by the way, outside on day three and was able to structurally adjust her on like day five and ended up being able to get her under chiropractic care with a chiropractor I trained on me while I was there. And she's able to leave the house. She's able to see her family again, she's able to make big changes, but I remember in one of our conversations, I heard myself like third person, like watching myself say this;
I told her, if I could choose, if I could go back again, I would choose to go through all of it again, because I have been able to learn more inside of trauma than I could possibly have learned in 50 lifetimes academically. And I've been able to translate for people how they're feeling to their loved ones because oftentimes people who have chronically elevated sympathetic, whether it's because of CTE or something else are super grouchy and snappy sometimes. And it's like watching a train, I can't stop, right? And people just think like people assume it's your personality and they don't understand how you're feeling and what's going on neurologically. And just the constellation of the family of healthcare providers I was raised in and my weird fascination with neurology as a teenager and then my chiropractic training and even my training in psychoneuroimmunology before that.
And all of the confluence of all of that together, plus yoga dance, like there's a lot of pieces of my background that come together in this, that perfect confluence has been that I've been able to help so many people that nobody else could help. And I've had so many patients tell me, you're the only doctor who's ever understood what it feels like to be inside my body right now. And even most recently, a really, really dear friend who is a chiropractor was in a really major car accident four months ago and has massive brain damage. And they flew to Atlanta to get some help and I've been here and I've been working with her and able to help translate. Her husband said to me, you're like a bridge between us because I can translate, I speak her language, and to me we have coherent conversations because I've been inside that, I've been inside a brain that's deeply traumatized.
And so absolutely I would choose to go through it all again, which is hard for me. I'm like, do I really think that? I do. We have a hard time with that concept in psychology of not just accepting, but embracing the challenges that we've come through. It's not about feeling guilty or like a victim and it's definitely not about missing the gravity of the suffering because for years, if you asked me to rate my pain on a scale of one to 10, I would've told you 25. But it's recognizing that, I don't know - I have a spirit belief that I chose this life. I draw on to my realm, relevant life experiences that are going to catalyze my growth in ways that my spirit is ready.
DR. DANIELLE: Okay. Thank you for sharing this so openly, because I do feel like all of the things, all the things like CTE is one thing, but all the things that you and I have talked about whether it's Ehlers-Danlos or POTS the connection between those two things, the connection between all of it amongst all of it and how the nervous system shows us signs and symptoms in people that we see everyday, especially children. So misunderstood is not even the word it's like just not understood a-understood? Like they're not understood.
DR. SATYA: Completely missed. And there's been so much like that. I've learned, like you said, not only about CTE, but my journey and process with that has been looking at adverse mechanical tension physically affecting the central nervous system and led me into a real deep dive into fascia and the whole biotensegrity, the dural fascial kinetic chain, like this stuff that we are not taught at all in school and sympathetic atonia, which is starting to get some more traction which is awesome to see. People start to understand like, you know, okay, let's talk about the vagus nerve or let's talk about, you know, whatever. It's become trendy to talk about these things, which I'm glad. I posted a picture the other day, a memory that popped up on my Facebook. That was a kid I was taking care of with sympathetic atonia. His sympathetics had just been raging for a long time.
By the time I got him and it was his OT clinic, he'd been working with them for a year and he'd made good progress according to their measures. And after one month under my care, they had another assessment. It was their assessment. And they called me up. They ended up filling my practice. That was only six months into moving to Portland with all their people, because they're like this kid has made more progress in the past one month with our OT measures than he has in the last year. What OT stuff are you doing with him? And I was like, I'm not doing any OT stuff with him. I'm not doing brain exercises. Like none of that. Even chiropractically taught brain stuff, whatever, I wasn't doing any of that. I was literally just down regulating his nervous system, his sympathetic nervous system, working with the proprioceptive nociceptive imbalance. And all of that grew out of what I learned by handling my own brain injury. I was like, I have some of the same symptoms as these kids - he had autism - with kids with autism and they're stressed out moms. Like we all have a lot of overlap and that sympathetic nervous system stuff is huge. And most of the people that I've seen working with it are still trying to micromanage the pathways rather than say, how do we get the body to feel safe? How do we get the body back into its default baseline of parasympathetic, which doesn't have to be a fight. We don't have to rewire the brain. We need to restore normal.
And it's, it's amazing. Like so many doctors are coming out of the woodwork saying, oh, I think I might have this. Or my kid might have this. You know, and so it's fascinating because we're for sure seeing these in our practices. It's so funny. Sometimes somebody will say, oh, I just work with kids in pregnant women. So that doesn't apply to me like that’s kind of for car accidents and I'm like, no, no, no - I guarantee you, these people are in your practice and they may not be as severe as where I was because I had multiple head injuries over a decade before anyone knew it was wrong. Don't let that happen to your people. Like we need to know how to recognize this. Even being really philosophically grounded, I'm not one to focus on diagnoses or conditions necessarily, but I don't care about that. Like you need to understand, this is a thing, we’re in physical bodies, this is a thing that it's super common that a lot of people are struggling with. As chiropractors, we are uniquely qualified to address adverse mechanical tension, distorting central neurological function.
There's so much forcing change and like, yeah. We need to correct subluxations. Yes. When they're ready to be corrected. And so the number one skill to reset resilience in the nervous system, instead of, you know, staying at high sympathetic is that we need to actually be able to tell when our work is pushing them into sympathetics. And that something that you can learn to palpate, and that you can teach your patients to tell you sooner, just like a musician can tell if a note is a little sharp or a little flat, when you practice this skill there are physiological palpatory signs that you can use with whatever technique you're doing. If you're tracking, is this pushing them into sympathetics? That's when you know it's time to back out and try something else. So it gives you the tools to be able to apply your work in a more individualized way and in a way that will ultimately train their nervous system to parasympathetic dominance.
DR. DANIELLE: Well Satya, thank you so much for being up for doing this with me.
DR. SATYA: It's fun. This is my purpose. I don't want to see anybody else suffering because nobody could figure out what was going on. And this is something that's actually pretty straightforward to help. But if you don't know, you don't know.
And we have this great capacity to show up for our patients and to be a beacon of hope and bridging the science and spirit together, like the left and right brain and really integrating that together, especially I’ve known so many chiropractors who have experienced chiropractic adjustments from other people as forceful or violent or unsafe feeling. And so then we go in, we choose light fluffy, low force techniques. But the thing is that often is not sufficient. And so a lot of times I see people say, oh, just adjusting is contraindicated in the necks of these people. Or let's just do something super, super soft and gentle and back out. And I'm like, yes, but also you might not be helping enough if you're doing that. And it would be better to work on a ramp. If you don't like the top floor of the elevator, don't stay at the bottom. And so that's a lot about what I'm deeply purpose driven to share is that's why I was saying my dance background comes in because it really is like partner dancing with somebody's body and being able to track your objective measures and funnel your intuition in a way that's going to be really efficient and effective and consistently transformative that's what I'm here to do. You know? So I'm delighted to share.
DR. DANIELLE: Where else can they continue learning from you?
DR. SATYA: They can send me a message with their email and I’m happy to put them on my email list. My email is drsatia@resilienceartist.com.
DR. DANIELLE: Good. Okay. Thank you again so much for sharing and making the time to do this with me and being again, willing to just come for whatever happened while we're here.
DR. SATYA: Totally. I know there's so many people like you that have these sort of weird symptoms and we often also, if it's not stopping you, you might not be like, oh, I should take time away from my busy life to go figure this out. But it may be indicating something underlying that is more or challenging on a baseline to your system that's making it feel like you're treading water with a bunch of rocks in your backpack. And maybe we can take some of those rocks out so it's easier and you don't have to have to feel like you're in survival mode so hard.
DR. DANIELLE: Thank you again.
DR. SATYA: Thank you.