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The iGaming Leader Podcast with Leo Judkins uncovers the human side of the iGaming industry's most successful leaders. Join us as we explore the untold stories, challenges, and triumphs of the executives shaping one of the world's most dynamic sectors.
Each week, we dive deep into conversations with C-suite leaders, founders, and directors from global betting firms and innovative startups. Our guests share their authentic journey to the top, revealing pivotal career moments, leadership philosophies, and personal strategies for sustainable success in this high-pressure industry.
More than just another business podcast, we focus on the crucial intersection of wellbeing and high performance. Discover how industry leaders maintain peak performance while managing stress, work-life integration, and team dynamics in an industry that never sleeps.
Whether you're an aspiring leader, current executive, or passionate about the iGaming sector, each 30-minute episode delivers actionable insights to help you thrive in this fast-paced environment.
Subscribe now to join a community of high-achieving iGaming professionals committed to making this industry not just successful, but sustainable for its leaders.
Rob Duthie: Instead of running away
from challenges every day, I actually
run towards them because within that
challenge is actually very, very likely
I'm going to find a lot of engagement
and happiness and fulfillment.
if you feeling that the season is
finished, then get up and move.
Don't stay in that and stagnate because
there's so much opportunity out there
In terms of language, relentless
change, continuous change, is
something that you become used to
when you're working in this industry.
Arguably, if you step out of the industry,
it's the very thing you end up missing
When you start to break it down,
you begin to realize How did I ever
get anything done without really
planning the day ahead of me?
No wonder you get home and you're tired
Welcome to the I gaming leader the podcast
where we uncover the human side of some
of the most well-respected leaders.
In the industry.
I'm your host, Leo Jenkins.
And today I'm joined by Rob Duthie.
A true industry veteran.
been in the industry For over
20 years, starting out at Victor
Chandler, nowadays BV group.
Working out Stan James nowadays,
kindred and ending up as the
managing director at Entain.
He will share the lessons that he's
learned throughout that 20 year career,
the challenges that he's faced, and
also leadership lessons that will help
you and I uncover what is required
to sustain high performance in this
high pressure, fast paced industry.
So with that said, let's dive in.
Leo: Hey Rob, welcome to
the iGaming Leader podcast.
Really great to have you here.
I wanted to start with
kind of kicking off.
You've been in the industry for 20 years,
I believe, when I looked at your LinkedIn.
Very long term and passionate
person in the industry.
You know, starting back in 2003,
I'm curious to hear what initially
drew you into the industry.
And, and how's your perspective
perhaps changed as you, as you've gone
through those two decades in gaming?
Rob Duthie: Yeah.
Look, it's been a
fascinating journey for me.
I had no intention of
moving into gaming at all.
In fact, moving down to southern Spain
was a desire, to get away from UK weather.
It was just an opportunity where I
was very fortunate to go and take on
a maternity cover role with, Victor
Chandler, knew nothing about the
industry at all and ended up looking
after payrolls for the UK and Gibraltar.
So.
You know, it's, there was no intention
of joining the industry, but, 20 years
has gone by and it's been a fascinating
journey from, you know, back in 2000s,
early 2000s, where everything was on the
telephone and it was all sports betting.
We had a single person in the corner
looking at something called an
internet casino or casino online.
Now there isn't any telephony
or very little of it.
And everything is pretty
much digital for us.
So what an exciting journey it
has been over the last 20 years.
Lots of variety.
Leo: Yeah, funny.
I was thinking about it yesterday as
well, how you used to have the mobile
department, it just doesn't exist anymore.
And on that same thoughts, Rob,
you, you must have seen so many
consolidations, not just, you know,
within business that you're in now,
but consolidations in general, right?
How teams merge and expand and change
over time, what are some of the, some
of the bigger, most impactful changes
that you've witnessed or been part of?
Rob Duthie: Look, I think the
journey for me has been fascinating
because I've been very fortunate to
move between different operators,
which gives you quite a different
perspective on how these businesses run.
The tenure that I've had
has worked for operators.
I've worked in payment specific areas.
Understanding the whole infrastructure
around how we deal with payments from the
acquirer point of view and the routing
point of view for different industries,
whether it's Forex or binary or gaming.
So what I find fascinating
about this industry is that.
There is so much variety
sitting within this business.
In fact, when we talk about
progression, individual progression,
they typically think about this
industry as just taking a bet.
But actually, if you dig into
it, it's about marketing.
It's about legal.
It's about compliance.
It's about acquisition.
There's so much variety
within the industry.
I've been very fortunate to be
a part of a lot of that, which
has helped me grow as a person.
over the last 20 years.
So, you know, that coupled with
the fact that there is such a
fast paced moving environment.
In terms of language, relentless
change, continuous change, is
something that you become used to
when you're working in this industry.
Arguably, if you step out of the industry,
it's the very thing you end up missing.
It's just the pace at which you move.
there's very few other
industries that match that.
that can be, quite a motivational
piece, quite an energizing
piece of the work that I do.
Leo: I love that.
It's such a fast paced industry and
sometimes that brings big challenges with
it as well, where we want to look at the
long term, but we have to look at the
short term to deliver results, what are
some of the biggest challenges that you've
personally faced in your professional
career when it comes to this, this real
fast pace that this industry is all about?
Rob Duthie: some of the points for me
is that you have to embrace the change.
you've got to be in a position where
if you feel you want to fit into a box
and that's what you want to do for the
rest of your days, then you're going
to struggle because you will come up
against having to reinvent what it is
that you do because in a year or two
years time or five years time, it's very
likely That it will not be the same.
The operation won't be the same.
The types of positions and jobs
that we have won't be the same.
in terms of my own journey, there's some
key learnings around, finding happiness
and engagement in the challenge, in the
change of everything that we do every day.
by embracing that, I actually have lots
of reasons to get up in the morning.
to come to work because there is
so much variety and the minute you
stick your hand up and say, yes, you
start learning and you start growing.
and I don't think I'll ever stop,
learning or growing in this career
because it's always changing for me.
Leo: yeah, it's true.
And I think that's true for most people.
If you, think back to, I mean,
you've been at Victor Chanda,
been at Hills, now at Entain.
What were some of the most pivotal
moments when it comes to maybe your,
how you approach leadership in general,
how you manage your teams, how you
speak to your people, what have been
some of The biggest moments for you
that really changed the way you see
leadership or how you lead your teams
Rob Duthie: Yeah.
So because we're in this
continuous change, at the root of
everything we do are the people.
that's quite a key point because all
of us, get carried away by the target,
by what do we have to do around the
number and how much we have to deliver.
But there's a very real lesson
in understanding the difference
between how we perform.
So how we turn up every day and what
we do versus the targets that we are
set and we have to deliver against.
we've got to ask those questions
about fine, we hit target.
Okay.
We did very well in terms of the
number, but how did we perform and
turn up every day to hit that target?
And we've got to make a decision
as individuals to say yes, in terms
of our behavior, in terms of how
we look after individuals and teams
and people, because we all want to
have that opportunity to develop.
we all want to have the
opportunity to grow and to learn.
but the key is how do we
perform every day as people?
That means that we actually
end up hitting the target.
there might be occasions when you
don't hit the target, okay, but
you're comfortable that in terms
of behavior and how we turned up
and what we did was acceptable.
Leo: yeah,
Rob Duthie: All right, versus hitting
the target at any cost and not looking
after individuals all the way that
we run the business, especially
when you're dealing with vulnerable
customers, You know, people that are
struggling in the industry, we have
to take accountability for that.
So, you know, what I love about, the
last two 10 years that I've had at Hills
and in Tain is that at William Hill
2016, that's really when we had the
start of regulation and started taking
it seriously in terms of affordability.
knowing your customer source
of funds and source of wealth.
that's when we started
to take it seriously.
the one consistent area for all
operators, especially in the UK
market, is that impacts value.
customer value has been hit across
every operator in the UK because of
regulation and how we run our business.
And so at Hills, four years that I had at
William Hill, was all about the start of.
that piece.
where I'm super fortunate to be
right now is that we are at Intane.
I came and joined Intane at 2020.
Again, that was the start
of that journey for Intane.
you would see that reflected in the share
price and the way the business is moving
around, consolidating, restructuring
to where we are now coming out the
other side at a very exciting time.
Thank you.
in fact, we talk internally that these
will be the most exciting times that we
will see in the next 24 months, just in
terms of how we grow as a business and
how we take share of wallet in the UK.
Leo: I love how you've turned
the business around Just that
recent financial update is insane.
I've, I was fortunate enough to see
some of that, a little bit closer
by, working together with you guys.
how has that affected the team, Rob?
after such a tough time turning that
around into a quarter where, you perform
the way that you've just done specifically
in the UK, but internationally as well.
How's that affected everybody?
Rob Duthie: you know, since 2020,
we've had continuous decrease
in value and player value.
And the challenge on individuals is
that when you try and hit a target
that is very difficult to hit, that
starts eroding away in terms of
your engagement and your motivation.
You'll laugh at this, but the challenge
we have today is not around the success.
So we are performing.
Well, and we will continue to perform
well, but there is a lot of fatigue.
a lot of change fatigue,
that everybody is carrying.
how we get people to jump over that
divide, to say, look, yes, we're doing
well as a business, but actually now
we need to invest heavily in our people
that are, you know, that are tired,
yea they're tired of having to go
through the restructures and the changes
over the last couple of years, along
with the challenges of performance.
it's how you change that mindset.
and that's something we're
really focusing on now.
Is that we need to have fun, yeah?
People need to have fun.
They come to work to have fun, and
we get paid, and that's fantastic.
but we really need to enjoy the journey.
So, we are focusing on Getting
back to the basics, yeah?
How do you deal with those brilliant
basics in terms of development and
progression and succession planning?
because people want to move on.
that's an exciting place for us to be,
because the focus now is on the people.
the focus is on the performance
piece, because we know that the
targets are realistic, and we
know, we're going to achieve the
results that we need to achieve.
Leo: Yeah, I love it.
I love how it's turned around.
It's really amazing.
I can see that makes a
lot of sense as well.
When you've gone through so many changes,
that fatigue starts trickling in.
how do you keep people engaged?
what's your approach to making sure
that your team feels engaged with
business, with your, your strategic
direction that you're setting with, still
delivering , and making sure that they
come to work and have fun, like you said.
Rob Duthie: So for us, it's
understanding very clearly what those
objectives are for us as a business.
We call them the big rocks.
what are the big rocks that we
want to deliver against in 2025?
the story needs to be super simple.
the last four years have been
spent making things very complex.
in the complexity, people lose sight.
of where it is we're going and
what it is we're trying to achieve.
stripping that back to a very simple story
that has very, very clear objectives.
And then more importantly, what
I, what I really love is how we as
individuals take the skills that we have.
Okay.
So instead of us going to people
and saying, here's the objective
and I need you to do this.
We talk to people about, what
is your skill set and how do you
tie into being accountable and
responsible within the objective.
And that encourages cross team work.
people are now doing what they're really
passionate about doing, which is why we
want to come to work, as opposed to being
told, you need to be doing X, Y, and Z.
So the way that we work with our guys
is we talk about the big rocks the big
things we want to deliver for next year.
if you go a little deeper on that and peel
it back, what are the deliverables we need
to achieve within our verticals, within
our pillars to achieve those objectives?
And then drill it down again
into the individual, what
are the skill sets you have?
And how do those tie in?
it could be across multiple
functions or pillars.
let's focus on what you're good at
as opposed to all the weak areas.
that then gets people engaged because they
have a clear sense of where they're going.
Okay.
And they have a very clear idea
of what got to do to get there.
that's when the magic starts happening.
and people feel like,
they want to be here.
Because they're adding value.
Yeah, that's a very exciting place to be.
Leo: Yeah.
Love that, Rob.
I'd like to ask about your personal
experience with people you've looked
up to, leaders you've looked up to.
I've also worked for Victor, And
I understand, it's very different
than I'd imagine your current,
situation at work where it's,
, it's obviously a larger organization.
What are some of the people that you've
really looked up to, leaders that
you've looked up to throughout that 20
year career of yours that, you know,
the skills, the behaviors, the habits
that you feel, were really kind of
transformational for you when you looked
at them and thought those are things I
want as I'm progressing through my career?
Rob Duthie: Yeah.
So, so key points for me, in terms
of leadership is, is you don't
always have to have the answer.
So when people are coming to, to talk
to you about their journey, it's not
about saying this is what you need to do.
What I really respect with leaders
is having the insight to, help you
understand what the solution is
and the ability to say something
very simple, that gets you thinking
about a problem in a different way.
I've been fortunate to run across a
couple of guys like that, where I might
be overthinking something, and they would
just pull me back in line to say, well,
just if we think about it differently.
What is the outcome going to be for you?
and exploring that.
it's a little bit like
getting into coaching.
we know that you turn up to a coaching
session expecting, the person on the
other side to have all the answers.
And actually that's not their job.
Their job is to sit with you
and help you understand what
is the right answer for you.
And so it's the questioning techniques.
and allowing you to explore
those areas that, you wouldn't
necessarily do on your own.
that for me is quite key.
in terms of leadership as well, it's,
you know, the most engaging leaders
that I've worked with are people that
bring everybody along the journey.
that's quite a skill because,
Storytelling, is really how
it works within our business.
Being able to tell a story that
people believe, that could be through
change as well, because, people have
to understand that the reason why we
are making the change is good for the
business and that it has, there's some
deep thought that's gone into it and
it is going to benefit the business.
When people realize that,
regardless of the outcome,
you understand the reason why.
And as long as it's meaningful and it
makes sense, then people engage with it.
, and so you go through a lot of
transformation, we just really
want to cut costs at any cost.
And there's blood on the floor.
there's a lot of casualties.
And people are confused.
They don't understand why
we've gone through this change
and they take it personally.
Whereas when you've thought it through
and you've come with a very clear
business plan, people can tuck into that.
even if it's not good news for them.
there's just a couple of examples.
I always love to think about, I
mean, Ressie, from the Springboks,
who's the son of the new coach.
Um, I've, I've spent, yeah, I've spent
quite a bit of time watching how he's
managed to take a team that wants to win.
But actually there's a connection
within each one of those players.
means that they have to win.
it's not about, we're just turning up,
it's not about, we're just, we're going
to play another game, but , it's the
ability that Rassy has on his players.
to actually connect, the winning piece
with the motivation that they have.
and that's a very exciting place
to be because, that's where the
magic happens and that's when
you can achieve many things.
Leo: I really love that.
And I always loved the example of
connecting sports with business
because that high input, high
performance environment that we see
in sports is really something that
we want to recreate in business, but
it's often very difficult, right?
Because there's not a South African
shirt that you're playing for or
it's a brand that you're playing for.
And so it's obviously different.
But I wanted to tie back to something
you said earlier about giving people
space and asking the right questions
and creating that sense of, all
right, let me, let me think about
this problem differently, right?
One of the things that I see a lot with
people that are perhaps a little bit
newer into leadership roles is that they
feel they have to have all the answers
and they have to be telling rather
than asking, it's a typical, issue
that many people struggle with because
they feel if they tell them and they
don't ask, it's an easier way to
get to the result that they want.
And you must've seen that
a lot around you, right?
Over the years these kinds of challenges,
but newer leaders stepping up, how can
you help people feel more confident
with actually asking questions instead
of telling, so being a macro manager
rather than a micro manager, if you will.
Rob Duthie: Yeah.
So, my view in terms of, values is that
humility is a super important value.
a servant leader and somebody
that is humble is very rare, very
powerful when managing teams.
I do believe it flows down
when you're leading teams.
And you come with an agenda, which is,
I'm not going to tell you everything,
but I encourage you to challenge.
in a safe place where you know
that, we're going to listen to you.
Cause everybody has value and adds value.
Then that does create a
different environment.
when I think about my guys, if
I step out of line, I give them
permission to call me out on this.
it's quite a powerful place to be because,
as a team, I know we are very successful.
it's the fact that they are
super inquisitive that means
that we can actually leapfrog
and make a lot of progress.
So I encourage people to ask questions.
Meaningful questions.
They need to be thought through
questions because you genuinely want
to get a result or you genuinely
don't understand something.
my commitment is I want to make
sure that you fully understand
what it is we're trying to deliver.
You've got to work as a team.
a lot of young people come
through and they get progression
very, very early in the career.
And that comes with the risk.
Yeah.
Because, they haven't quite, built on
how they manage those conversations.
They're not quite at the place where
they know how to ask the questions.
in a structured way, in fact, I'll give
you a really nice example here is that
when I joined both hills and attain,
compliance always said Rob, there's no
way that because you guys are commercial.
There's no way that you guys can
get involved in compliance at all.
It's that you can't even
attend the meetings.
And it took three years at Hills and
a couple of years at Mtain where we
could all get around the table because
we all understood that we had a
single goal and I take it as seriously
as anybody else in the business.
So building that really
strong relationship that says.
I'm not going to push on something
that is going to jar with you.
We can all talk about the
challenges that we're experiencing.
and as a collective, we are so powerful.
one of our guys had always said to
me before is that if Intane, only
knew what Intane knows, we have
so much knowledge in the business,
But not many people share it.
it's quite a powerful piece because when
you bring all that experience together,
you're very powerful, in the market.
Leo: asking the right questions
is key because people are sat in
their silos, not intentionally but
are sat in their silos thinking.
and struggling perhaps
with, with communicating
the exact things that
other people need to know.
So how, like in a large organization
moving from, you know, Victor Chandler,
Stan James, even, I'd imagine it was quite
intimate as well to, to a far larger
organization, which is now Vogue Hills,
and, and what are the big differences you
feel between being in a small organization
and being in a large organization,
and managing those complexities?
Rob Duthie: Yeah.
So there's a number of points that
Entain , has a lot of politics
involved in this business.
So you spend a lot of time managing up.
that's far different to a private entity
like Chandler's was back in the day
or Stan's back in the day, where you
could just make a decision and move on,
Now you can't just make a decision because
you've got to go through committees and
get approval which means that storytelling
is very important, that it's clear, and
simple and that people understand it.
I was away a couple of weeks back, on a
high performance, leadership, meeting with
some of our guys and, two days in, I went
to the guy that was leading the session
and, said to him, listen, Keith, in terms
of how I show up in the meeting, don't be
put off if you see me there in the corner,
quiet and not necessarily contributing.
So you've got to understand
that I'm a deep thinker.
which means that, when we're discussing
problems or how we fix those problems,
what's going on in the back of my mind
is, picking up on all the different touch
points that that's going to impact to
make sure that it does actually work.
And he turned around and he said
to me, Rob, you've been operating
in stealth mode your life.
And what was amazing about that
statement is, yes, it was true.
Okay.
Is that because I'm an introverted
thinker, because I very happy to go away
and let it consume me for the next week.
I don't necessarily share that
information with other people.
that piece of work around stealth was
quite an eye opener for me because
you've got to balance that out.
You can go away and work in stealth
mode, which is absolutely fine.
But then you have to come back
and be transparent and share
the ideas and share the plan.
when I sit and talk with our guys, I
might have 19 or 20 projects working
in the background and none of them
would necessarily know about that.
because I'm sneaking
back into stealth mode.
So, very much in terms of my leadership
style, working in those different
environments, especially in an operation
like ENTAIN, where there's a lot of
politics involved, I have to over index
on the transparency piece, and I have to
really talk about that storytelling piece.
which is the unifying story.
Yeah.
So, hey, this is what we're doing guys.
Here's the detail of it and keep
doing that because if you remember
working in a super fast paced business,
what's, you know, we're doing something
this week and in two weeks time, it
might be totally different again.
Leo: Yep.
Rob Duthie: you have to over index on
the communication piece and make sure
everybody's coming along the story.
Leo: One of the things I really
loved about what you just said there,
Rob, about being a deep thinker
is that we are not all the same.
very often, I think, as you know, stepping
into a new role, we think we need to fit
in some sort of managerial leadership box.
And
we all need to operate.
In the same way or think in the same
way, and that's simply not true.
one of the things I love about you, Rob,
is that you communicate that quite well.
You communicate how you might
actually sit in that corner and be
quiet for a minute because you're
thinking through something, how?
has that changed over time?
You might have, is that an area that
you've struggled with historically?
Is that something that you've picked
up and made your strength over time?
how's that specific skill set
of yours, that being a deep
thinker evolved over time?
Rob Duthie: of it now than I've ever been.
and just to build on that, and I have
shared this with you before, but I
have fascinated over just a single
statement around happiness, fulfillment,
engagement being found in the struggle
of everything we do every day.
And you can apply that to
your personal relationships.
You can apply that to
your work environment.
Instead of running away from challenges
every day, I actually run towards
them because within that challenge
is actually very, very likely I'm
going to find a lot of engagement
and happiness and fulfillment.
so because I'm more conscious of it,
I'm more inclined to throw myself
into super challenging scenarios.
My boys who are older now, when
the rains come down, you know,
we've had rain in the last week.
The first thing that I was saying
is, dad, did you go out in the Jeep?
Did you go and find some people
that are stuck in the mud?
And it's funny cause we, we look
back and that's what we used to do.
when the rain came down, we'd get
some rope in the back and, go and find
the challenges that are out there.
That was just a subconscious thing.
it's always been there, in terms
of, running into challenges, a
lot of deep thought around those
challenges and how we solve for them.
does come with a risk, because what
I find is that will consume you,
but does consume me every day, all
day, probably seven days a week.
So you have to be super conscious
that, well, I do need to switch off.
do need to stop thinking about
these things and focus on family
and focus in other areas of my
life in terms of well being.
but it is a superpower.
So we all have our own superpowers.
and it's important to understand
that within the team environment,
you don't want to have
everybody that's a deep thinker.
Leo: No, not exactly.
Rob Duthie: that's not
necessarily helpful.
but I understand my place within the team.
Leo: yeah,
Rob Duthie: And that's quite key
because that allows me to relax.
That allows us as a team to
perform very well because we've
thought it through in detail.
the older I get, the more
comfortable I am with who I am.
I don't feel I have to
necessarily go and prove anything.
And if I don't feel like saying
anything, I won't say anything.
unless it's meaningful and it's going
to add value then I'll jump in and
we'll start talking about it up to
that point, I'm very comfortable
to keep quiet And just listen
Leo: key thing that you're
talking about, right?
Being yourself and not doing
things that you think you should or
being a person that you think you
should be, but actually just being
yourself and communicating that out.
One thing that you've just said
there, Rob, is, for a deep thinker
like you, one of the big important
things is switching off, right?
Because you know, you're going to
have running thoughts continuously.
what is something that you
do to help you switch off?
Rob Duthie: it needs to be a total
distraction for myself that tends to
be around exercise Getting up riding a
bicycle But something I'm conscious of
is that I'm awake at five o'clock in the
morning for many years I've spent that
time, lying in bed trying to go back
to sleep instead of actually embracing
it and getting up and thinking, maybe
my brain is trying to tell me something
because my best times of the day are
actually first thing in the morning.
getting up at six where you've got
really good quality quiet time.
no distractions, no noise.
really allows me to think about
what it is I'm doing during the day.
Plan for the day.
So I'm not spending my whole
day in that deep thinking state.
I actually assign time
in the day to do that.
Do it first thing in the morning,
when there's nobody around.
read as much as I can.
as part of my distraction and
then, plan the day ahead of me.
So when I come into the office and the
meeting is from nine o'clock through
to five o'clock meeting after meeting,
I don't have to then rush home and
carry on working because I've already
prepped and planned early in the day.
And that helps me get control of
this crazy animal that we work in.
and that allows me to spend time and
be in the moment with the family.
when I'm sitting at home and I'm talking
to my wife or my boys, I'm actually there.
I'm not deep in thought
thinking about something else.
you've got to be ruthless
about these things.
You really have to assign time, very
clearly assigned time to say at this time
of the day, I'm going to be doing this.
And when I'm finished work,
I'm going to dedicate my time.
I'm going to be in the moment
and I'm going to, be there
for that session of the day.
and actually what's fascinating is
when you break that down, you really
don't have a lot of time left.
So when you break it down and
say, well, I'm going to, do my
emails between six and seven.
And I'm going to have my deep
thought between seven and eight.
And then I'm going to have my
breakfast and whatever until
nine, I'll be in the office.
And then you've got all your
meetings, you know what I mean?
When you start to break it down,
you begin to realize How did I ever
get anything done without really
planning the day ahead of me?
No wonder you get home and you're
tired because you're trying
to log on and read content.
Bear in mind, regulatory changes is a
lot of documentation that you've got
to read and try and keep in your mind.
So I'm doing all of that stuff
at the wrong time of the day.
Leo: Yep.
Rob Duthie: I need to do it at the
right time of the day and everything
seems to flow nice and clearly.
I Just a quick word of encouragement that
if you're also struggling to switch off.
Or find better balance in life
then that's really normal.
Many of the I gaming leaders
that I've spoken with really
struggle with that as well.
It's very typical for being in a
high pressure, fast paced industry.
And it's difficult to
kind of break out of that.
Now if that's something that you want some
support with, we've actually created the
I gaming leader mastermind, where we help
people live, lead and perform at their
best using science proven methods to help
them achieve sustainable peak performance.
If that's something that you want to join,
please head over to I gaming leader.com.
And apply.
Let's get back into the interview.
Leo: One of the expressions I love, maybe
this is one that you're going to think
about for a long time as well, is that
give your most important work the best
of you instead of what's left of you.
And I think
most people actually do it
the other way around, right?
They do their most important
work after all the back to
backs, whenever they have time.
one of the key things is to take
charge of your time and calendar.
And align that with how your brain works,
you're up early because that's how your
brain works and you feel energetic so
align your most important work with that.
I think it's key.
Rob Duthie: Finding the
balance is very important.
Leo: Last two questions for you, Rob.
First, what are the skills or behaviours
that you for in leaders that you
try to employ within your teams?
What are some of the things that you find
really important the team that you manage?
Rob Duthie: there's a statement
that says, love the one you're with.
It doesn't matter what it looks like.
It doesn't matter what the conditions are.
and that's very important because
the people that I employ and the
teams that I work with, it's not
going to be plane sailing every day.
it's going to be challenging months,
maybe even challenging years.
And so how those individuals turn up
and behave is super important to me.
In fact, the experience counts for a
lot, but the behavior counts for more.
Leo: Yep.
Rob Duthie: Okay.
So when you wake up in the morning,
you have to put on that game face.
Even if you don't want to put it
on, you have to because as leaders,
people are looking up to you.
there's a funny saying that
the children of the people that
you manage know you by name.
So, when the people you manage
go home, they talk about you.
talk about you as a leader.
They know you by your first name
so it's very important that, I
mean, there's a couple of values
that I really drive forward.
I would rather somebody, be humble
and have honesty and integrity.
I can work with that.
You
People that are engaged and genuinely
want to be here, We can teach you
about how to run this business and
we can teach you the skill sets
that you need to run the business,
but I can't train in the behaviors.
So So those for me are
super, super important.
we practice a lot of listening.
to what people have to say.
I don't have all the answers.
I don't want to have
all the answers either.
Because as a team, we need to contribute
and get the solution over the line.
really good listening, a lot
of humility, and we are here
to serve at the end of the day,
Leo: Yep.
Rob Duthie: it or not.
Leo: Yep.
Love it.
Yeah, it's true.
I love it.
and especially, you know, be the
manager that you wish you had, right?
it's such an important piece of
advice, I think, because managers have
more impact on your happiness than
most other people in your lives.
So, that is such a crucial piece.
Really love that.
Rob Duthie: Yeah.
Look, we are super fortunate
that We can lead the business.
The problem with a lot of people
is they want to be told what to do.
I mean, if you think about it as your
business, how would I run my own business?
what decisions would I make?
when there's a lot of fat in the business
in terms of the payroll and you see that,
the company has taken a decision around
restructuring, you apply to yourself,
what would I do in that situation?
that means we take ownership and
responsibility for how we do things.
unless you turn up to work like that,
the challenges you're going to face
is that you won't be around very long
because you have to be adaptable.
You've got to understand that the
business structure is going to change
in the way the business is run.
If you look at regulation, for
instance, I always say regs come, it's
going to come to everybody's door.
It doesn't matter what, Markets
you're in, whether you're Germany,
Austria, Spain, it doesn't matter.
Regulation will come, whether
it's marketing affordability
or player protection, it's
going to come to your door.
So you have to be forward thinking,
open to saying, well, hang on, maybe
I need to explore some of the areas
that are not within regs today.
It's just a mindset.
If you think about the tobacco
industry, they went through
exactly the same challenges as we.
pretty much having gaming.
So you've got marketing prohibitions and
underage considerations to factor in.
we think outside of the box, what
if there was a total prohibition
on gambling for 18 to 25s what
would we do in that environment?
It's just how you think about these
challenges that is super important.
Leo: And then my final question, Rob,
for listeners that, might want to have
as an impactful career as, as you've
had over the, over the 20 years.
What's one piece of advice that
you would offer maybe your younger
self just starting out in gaming?
Rob Duthie: mean, I have
thought about this quite often.
And I think that The biggest
challenge is the pace, that I've
moved at over the last 20 years.
It hasn't been quick enough.
And what I mean by that is like
when I was a child at Victor's, I
was there for seven, eight years.
in hindsight, I should have moved quicker.
I should have taken opportunity quicker
because only moving from Chandra's
to Stan's did I realize There's
something different out here for me,
Victor Chandler ran through my blood.
I was super passionate about the brand.
I never, wanted to leave that brand.
But the minute I left, I suddenly realized
there's something bigger out there for me.
when I left Stanz, I was with
Stanz for about 15, 16 months.
When I left Stanz, I then went
and, worked in the startup casino.
the experience as well.
There's something
different out here for me.
And then going over to EPG,
which is a payment gateway.
there's something new out here for me.
So what I found is that my seasons,
were shorter and shorter and if you
think of childhood as eight years and
then every other season I've had is
four years or two years, I'm conscious
that change does happen and that I
should embrace it and move with it
rather than sitting in a season, because
I think we're all guilty of this.
We sit in a season and we
just stagnate in that season.
If the season is finished.
So my encouragement to anybody is
if you feeling that the season is
finished, then get up and move.
Don't stay in that and stagnate
because there's so much opportunity
out there I'd rather be going out,
and taking a risk, for something which
is bigger out there that's going to
help me develop and grow than sit in
a stagnant position for many years.
so yeah, the pain, I think for me, if I
could play it back, I would definitely
move quicker, and be more intent.
Around what it is I wanna do.
one of the ladies that worked here,
Julie Dalman, she was running the
UK for a couple of years and Julie
always had this, fascinating, way
of visualizing decision making.
And she always said to me, you
know, Rob, what are your must have?
What are your five must
haves around decision making?
So, you know, your must have means that
I need development, or I need a bigger
salary, or I need a certain location,
or I need to be close to my family, or
I need to be healthy, or, you know, what
are the must haves that you need in order
to either stay in the job that you're
doing, or move into something else?
And if your must haves are that
four out of the five or five out
of the seven, whatever it is, all
crosses, that's the wrong decision.
But if the must haves are all ticked,
then you move, so if I'm sitting in a
position and I'm feeling stagnated and
I'm not getting developed, just go through
the process of what are my must haves.
And if they're not there, then you know,
the season's over and it's time to move.
Leo: Fantastic note to end on.
Thank you very much, Robin, and thank you
for being so open and honest and sharing
all of your experience has been fantastic.
Thank you.
Rob Duthie: Brilliant.
Thank you, Leo
Wow.
What a great conversation with Rob
it's left me so inspired because we
all know the challenges that Entain has
been through over the last few years.
So him opening up about how he's gone
through that and what kind of leader
he is, I found really insightful.
It left me with three specific takeaways.
The first one was that it's really
about being authentically you, right?
Embracing yourself and who you
are and leading in a way that's.
You know, it's true to your values.
It's such an important skill to
have as a high performance leader.
The second thing is that it's all
about embracing change as well.
Businesses will go up and
down and it's inevitable.
So as a high performance leader,
your ability to ride with that
change and embrace change is such
a key skill in also helping your
teams become high-performance teams.
And the third thing, which I loved
the most was his approach to actively
seeking out challenges, because he
finds happiness and engagement on
the other side of that challenge.
And that is so true, isn't it?
Every single dream that we have goes
to die inside of our comfort zone.
It's outside of our comfort
zone where all our dreams happen.
So I really loved his approach there.
So that's it for this week.
If you found this episode helpful,
please leave a rating or review.
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And if you've already done
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Make sure that you send it to
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So that's it for this week.
Next week, we're
interviewing Dmitry Belianin.
He is the CEO and founder of
actually three different companies.
He's serial entrepreneur.
He's been in the industry for 17 years.
Real high performer.
Has got some fantastic insights on what
it requires to move from, starting off
early in your career, all the way to his
case, running three different businesses.
So I'd love for you to see
that episode next week.
I hope to see you there.
And I'll speak to you soon.
Take care.