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Unashamed Unafraid is a show dedicated to being unashamed about sexual addiction recovery and unafraid of coming unto Christ for healing. Pornography and sexual addiction are not something you are stuck with to manage your whole life. We share real stories of recovery, the best resources, information from experts, and answer anonymous questions with those who know. All to help you on the path of being 100% healed from pornography and sexual addiction.
Sam: Welcome to another
episode of Unashamed, Unafraid.
Unashamed of sexual addiction
recovery and unafraid of
coming unto Christ for healing.
James?
Do we do anything besides a podcast?
James: I've been working really hard
on stuff that's besides a podcast.
Nathan Maxwell Story - 2:26:26, 2: Have
Sam: ya?
James: Yeah.
Yeah.
Like a book.
Like a guidebook.
. It's taking a lot of time.
Sam: I think we're at what, four
chapters in now with the editor?
James: We're just plugging along, man.
Yeah.
Just plugging along.
Sam: Yeah.
So maybe by the time this
actually gets released, we're
gonna be pretty close to done.
I hope
James: so.
Sam: it's been an adventure . And we
think it's going to help a lot of people.
So if you're interested in starting
a group with the unashamed,
unafraid guidebook send me an
email, Sam at unashamed, unafraid.
com, we'll get you hooked up.
We want to get as many men, this
resource as we can once it's finished.
Here we are for another story episode
with the one and only Nathan Maxwell.
Before we get your story, I
just, I thought it was so sad.
The story you told us about the
previous episode that you've
recorded a year and a half ago.
Will you tell us that
story before we start?
Nathan: Absolutely.
Hi, I'm Nathan recovering lust addict.
My wife and I had come on the
podcast about a year and a
half ago, interviewed with.
Listeners might know that there
is kind of a shift of management,
, And my recording never got
published got lost in the move.
So I'm, I'm back with new perspectives.
Sam: So what has changed since then?
Nathan: A lot about my
marriage has changed.
My perspectives on recovery
remain pretty solid.
However, how I apply them in other
areas of my life has changed a lot.
I used to live my whole life really,
really loud and proud about my recovery,
which was great however, in the big book
of Alcoholics Anonymous, it talks about
how New members can just really go to
town and get lit on fire and everything
is about recovery, recovery, recovery.
And that was definitely me.
That bled over into all areas
of my life, which wasn't always
super appropriate or necessary.
, The past couple months, I've been really
rocky with my marriage, and I realized
that I took some recovery attitudes
into marriage, specifically if something
goes wrong, And I feel the effects.
I'm responsible for it, and I need
to do what I can do to address it.
That's how it works in recovery.
I need to be recovering regardless
of what's happening around me.
However, in marriage, it is appropriate
and necessary to a healthy relationship
to, yes, hold yourself accountable,
but also hold your partner accountable.
Which I was doing none of.
I thought that everything was my fault.
And I was putting the world on my
shoulders, not how it's supposed to work.
Sam: Well, dude, tell us your story.
Start from the beginning.
Nathan: Beginning.
Nathan is in fourth grade.
Sam: And why do you start in fourth grade?
Nathan: Because my friend showed me on
the school computer lab in elementary
school how to go on Google images
and look up naked women, which I did.
And I don't remember finding any.
But it was just very
forbidden and intriguing.
i'm a member of the church of
Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.
this is not talked about it's
just kind of glossed over.
You don't do it.
It's bad.
Okay.
Next topic.
God loves you.
Great.
So I tried to find it that same year.
A friend gave me a Japanese manga, which
is by American standards, soft porn.
They're just a lot more.
Sexualized of a literature
culture in general.
So I had that, I hid it because
I knew it was bad that if my
mom found it, she'd be upset.
When I was about six, my parents
divorced, my dad was a high functioning
sexaholic and alcoholic, but I didn't
know that for several more years.
But that is what broke my
parents marriage apart.
Sam: How did that impact you?
Nathan: Oh, it didn't.
Obviously.
I thought I was like, Oh, That's fine.
I go to dad's every other weekend
now and my mom doesn't like video
games, but I play video games
all weekend at my dad's house.
So that was really cool.
My dad was the fun parent who said yes.
And my mom was the strict
parent who said no.
I didn't know that I was doing little
to no connecting with either parent
cause I was just either playing video
games or resenting my mom's rules.
Parents got divorced, was
introduced to the concept of
pornography in fourth grade.
A couple years after my parents were
divorced, one of my dad's first children,
my half brother, took his own life.
He was 16, I was 11.
And again, I had, I didn't
know what to do with that.
So I packed that away.
I really specifically remember meeting,
In a room close to the bathroom that
I had stashed my soft porn book in
and my mom and dad were in the same
room together, which was strange
because they were divorced, telling
me about how my brother had died,
bawling, and all I can think about is,
I sure hope she doesn't find my porn.
. Which was really traumatizing, obviously.
Sam: how do you make sense of that?
Nathan: I think that there was a lot going
on that the only way I could cope with
that or deal with it was with pornography.
My core issue was I didn't
feel like a good person.
I didn't feel like I
was good enough to live.
I didn't feel like I was loved.
Parents divorced, played into that.
Yeah.
Distant father played into that mother
who was unmedicated for a while, diagnosed
later with a few diagnoses, but she was
just doing the best she could and it was
rough I turned to pornography cause it's
really easy to find somebody on a screen
to say you're good enough and you're
worthy because sex is sold in America.
Sex is the highest form of love.
It's glamorized.
It's on TV and in books.
And so if I can get that, then obviously
that means I'm a good enough person.
And I'm worthwhile.
And of course, , fourth grade
Nathan doesn't know any of this.
He just knows Sure.
It feels good to look at this, and
it feels bad when I get caught.
Sam: Wow.
You had this really significant moment
where mom and dad are telling me that
my brother just passed away and the only
thing I can think of is, I sure hope that
Nathan: they're not
Sam: going to find that magazine.
Right.
Nathan: Yep.
Sam: Right, there's a numbness.
Oh, yeah, preoccupied with the shame That
keeps you from grieving so I'm curious how
that impacted you over the next several
years of your life because that's huge
Nathan: yes.
Definitely addiction aside.
2020.
I had gone to the missionary
training center for my church.
I wanted to serve a full time mission.
Got sent home because I was
sexually active and lied about it.
But, the reason that I advertised
that I got sent home is because
I had a big fat mental breakdown
in the missionary training center
about my brother passing away.
And I'm like, what the heck is going on?
This was 10 years ago.
I thought I dealt with this.
The next few months My body
just would not function.
I commuted by bike everywhere, I would
just have to pull over and sit on the side
of the bike path and sob because I had
not dealt with the death of my brother.
I had numbed it and pushed it away.
So it popped out sideways
like a beach ball, submerged
under waves ten years later.
James: Trauma does that.
Nathan: Yeah.
James: when it's suppressed.
Nathan: Yeah, and I had no
idea I was suppressing it.
I remember telling therapists, I wasn't
super close with my half brother.
That's probably why I
didn't feel very much.
He was five years older,
lived with his mom.
Now looking back, I'm realizing, Oh yeah,
there was a lot of suppression going on.
Sam: In what ways do you feel like Porn
met some of those needs that you weren't
getting during that, early adolescent time
Nathan: So four years after being
introduced to porn, I'd had some time
to, Develop it into a compulsivity.
I was always looking for chances to
sneak a glance at the, the raunchy
magazine in the grocery store.
Yeah, I didn't really get much more
intense than that until I got a, a
little tablet computer in eighth grade
and I was looking at porn every chance
I would say I did a lot less numbing and
a lot more seeking to be lusted after.
Eighth grade was the first
time I had a girlfriend.
She messaged me over Christmas
break and said, I really like you.
I had no idea who she was, but
I was like, Oh, This is my God.
This is what gives me
a reason to be alive.
Sam: What do you mean you
had no idea who she was?
Nathan: I genuinely, I had never
seen her at my middle school.
She texted me.
She was like, Oh yeah, we're in the
same, I've seen you in the lunchroom.
I'm like, Oh, uh, I like you too.
And I.
Yeah, I didn't know who she was, met back
up and held hands and it was a huge deal.
Sam: As it is.
Nathan: Yeah, but it's pretty sad,
but I solicited explicit pictures
from her, which she gave me.
And that was in eighth grade,
which is miserably early.
Any, any time is too early for that,
but yeah, that happened in eighth grade.
I was overcome by shame because I knew
for certain that it was, this was wrong.
And my mom caught me, sent me to
my ecclesiastical leaders office.
I got a slap on the wrist
and said, don't do it again.
And so I never talked to her again after
that that's what you do in eighth grade.
I was so ashamed.
And that was the first of, I
tallied my fourth step inventory,
about 88 people over the next.
seven or eight years
situation similar to that
Sam: So that flipped a
switch inside of you.
Nathan: Yes, porn is nice, but having the
attentions of a real woman is So much more
validating and porn was always plan B.
Oh if I can't Get somebody to sext
with me today, then I guess I'll watch
porn, but it was always like can I?
Can I find people in my school?
Can I find them online?
Can I text them all the time?
And then, as a teenager, can I
meet up with them and how far
will they let me go physically?
Always, always seeking to be validated.
Seeking for somebody to say, yes, you're
good enough that I'll give you my body.
Sam: Right.
Nathan: Because I felt like I wasn't
good enough The sex addiction cycled
into that it there was just huge
Scrupulosity and religious undertones
of this makes you a bad person.
This means you're evil Pornography
is the worst thing out there.
Just don't ever do it And so I was , oh
clearly I'm a horrible person and then I'd
need to find somebody to go medicate with.
Sam: Yeah
Nathan: vicious cycle
Sam: People could be afraid to talk
about that piece of it because I
think they don't want to You Bag
on religion, but I actually think
I would love to dig into that.
And just hear your honest
perspective on what you experienced
and how damaging it was for you.
Nathan: Yes, I experienced no
sex education from public school
or from my religious friends.
It was all from pornography.
This is what you do.
This is how you do it.
This is what makes it a good thing.
And that's like lifeless dolls
smacking skin against each
other, which is not healthy.
So yeah, what my religious Culture
taught me, I want to be very clear,
this is not doctrinally accurate, but
the culture that I grew up in was you
don't talk about sex, you don't have
sex, you don't watch pornography, your
parents don't tell you about sex and
then you go get married and it's a
commandment now, go, go, go, multiply
and replenish the earth, you gotta start
having kids and raising righteous babies.
And It was nothing and then everything,
which is bewildering to kids who
are getting married at 20 to 25.
Sam: how did you navigate the shame of
being in those two polarized positions.
Nathan: somebody had to be wrong.
It was either the church was wrong, or
I was wrong and what I was doing was
wrong, I ended up believing that I was
wrong and what I was doing was wrong.
I knew it was wrong, but it felt so good.
I couldn't stop doing it, because
I was definitely a full blown actor
at that time, though I didn't know.
Church was right, doctrinally, that
yes, this is horrifically damaging.
So I just figured I'm, more of a bad
person because I'm, I'm still engaging
this and I'm still pushing it to
worse and worse levels, air quotes.
James: What's your relationship
with God during this period?
Nathan: Uh, he's disgusted at me.
He hates my guts.
He just wishes I would stop,
wonders why I can't stop.
Doesn't really want to have
anything to do with me.
Not interested in answering my prayers.
And definitely does not love me.
Sam: Wow.
How long did you sit in the pain
of that kind of a relationship?
Nathan: With God?
Sam: Yeah.
Nathan: Oh, for a
significant amount of time.
I found out about recovery
when I was, Woah, woah, woah.
21.
I had experienced some suicidal
ideation when I was a teenager.
Sex and lust it got really bad.
And then I coped with it really well.
More air quotes with lust because
I was getting attention, When I was
about 21, it was just so miserable
and I was like, I'm so ready to die.
I cannot keep living like this.
I'm miserable.
And yeah, that's, I was just sitting
in my own filth and it sucked.
James: And you found some recovery?
Nathan: Yes.
Recovery found me.
God found me.
Yeah, pretty much.
So yeah, I'm acting out, getting
in more and more trouble,
spiritually, emotionally, legally.
I was born in Salem, Oregon,
was living 50 miles north in
Portland, Oregon with my father.
More as a roommate situation.
And that was to enable my drug.
My friend passed away, and I moved
back to Salem, Oregon, to be with
people who knew him, because I was 50
miles away from any kind of support.
So, moved back to Salem,
went to a new church ward.
Sam: So, you knew If I can distance myself
somewhat from my support or from people
who might encourage me to be healthy, then
I can act out as much sexually as I want.
Nathan: Yes, exactly.
Another big part of it was
I came home from my mission
after two weeks in the MTC.
Sam: Yeah.
Nathan: And I was like, I
cannot be seen by people.
the people in my church.
I was like, Oh, moving to my dad's house.
And it was two days after I came
home, I had packed up and it was gone.
Sam: Wow.
Nathan: And I was like, I just have to be
out before Sunday because I'm not going
to church and having people look at me
and make me feel like I'm not good enough.
Yeah.
James: So you were projecting
on everybody in your ward,
assuming they would judge you.
Nathan: Everybody around me.
I was like, surely everybody
can see in my eyes.
They
James: must hate me.
That
Nathan: I'm a dirty person.
James: Hmm.
Nathan: Yes
James: surely they're judging
me because I'm judging me.
Nathan: Yes, that's a good point.
I've never thought about that.
I was definitely
projecting onto everybody.
And I was so angry and defensive and
miserable all the time against my mom,
against my friends who were religious.
I was fine with people who were
fine with porn, but if I thought
that they thought porn was bad, then
surely they would think I was bad.
Sam: So tell us about the
day you found recovery.
Nathan: Yeah, I did the geographical
fix, moved back to my mom's house,
which, to be fair, was a much more
recovery conducive environment.
My mother was a lot more spiritual than
my father, who was still an addict.
The city was less Portland y.
I don't know if you guys know about
Portland, Oregon, but there's a
lot of Babylonisms going around.
And
Sam: you were the king.
Nathan: Of that, of
that one little corner.
So, yeah, I went to church
and this guy was there.
I can't even remember how it came up, but
he was like, Oh, so, do you watch porn?
I was like, Are you gonna crucify me?
Nobody can know about my dirty secret.
He's like, oh yeah, no, me too, but here's
this podcast called Unashamed, Unafraid.
And so, started listening to the podcast.
Who
Sam: is this guy?
Nathan: Samuel Nowak, living
in the Dalles, Oregon.
he's awesome.
Thanks.
Shout out Samuel.
Sam: Shout out to Samuel.
We're going to verify.
I'm going to contact him
and make sure he's okay.
Okay.
Having his name on the
podcast, but that's so cool.
Nathan: Okay.
Sam: So guy just comes up to
you one day in church and says
Nathan: Hey, have you ever
struggled with pornography?
And God made me courageous
enough to say, Yes, I have.
And, and he just went to town with it.
He was like, is this meeting
in church that works this thing
called the 12 step program?
You should come to that.
Also, here's this podcast.
There's this guy named Chris who has
this awesome story with his wife.
And I listened to the hulk of hope
story and it just blew my mind.
I'm like, Oh my gosh.
And it also made me realize I don't
want to do another 14 years of this.
He was doing in his life and his marriage.
So
James: Unashamed Unafraid.
Unashamed
Nathan: Unafraid!
I went to boot camp with that friend.
I also went with my father
because I was pregnant.
Pretty codependent and
I wanted to fix him.
So the first time I went to bootcamp,
I didn't get anything out of it.
I was like, Oh, surely my dad
should be writing this down.
My dad is probably getting a
lot out of this session and I
was just trying to fix my dad.
But the second time I went was a lot
more beneficial because I went for
me and didn't go with anybody else.
James: The first one wasn't really
the one And it was good, and I
Nathan: learned a lot.
The second one Was
James: the third one the one?
Nathan: The second one was the
one for me because I went for me.
James: Okay.
Nathan: I was at a place in my recovery.
Three months into working this
program and I'm on top of the world.
This is so cool.
I'm ready to quit.
And I was spreading the
message with fire and love.
I shouldn't really have the whole
message internalized myself yet.
Sure.
So that's where I was at the
first time I went to bootcamp.
But yeah, the second time when
I went for myself, I drink
the Kool Aid, as Steve put it.
I was singing songs.
I was holding people's hands.
I was taking notes.
I was praying more earnestly
than the last time.
I was doing stuff that
made my heart come alive.
Jeremy was there.
He had his bows.
I bought myself a compound
bow when I came home.
So yes, the second bootcamp was it for me.
James: And how far into recovery
were you when you came a second time?
, Nathan: Maybe like a year,
year to year and a half.
I was just head over heels into recovery
the moment I found out about it.
Cause I had tried so many different
ways to fix myself before I found
out about God doing it for me in a,
in the form of a 12 step program.
So as soon as I heard somebody say
Oh, you're not the one that fixes you.
God fixes you.
I'm like, Oh, okay.
And I was really into it.
James: What was some of
your big aha moments?
Like, man, I wish I had known this.
Nathan: It's a hard thing because I
had heard all those things before.
James: Okay.
Nathan: As a child in my church, you
grow up singing songs like, I am a
child of God, I heard that every week.
God loves me, God loves me, God loves me.
And yet here I am, thinking God
hates my guts for what I'm doing.
James: Right.
Nathan: And it wasn't until I had
experiences that changed my beliefs.
Me offering my broken self to God and Him
saying, Yeah, you've done some stuff that
sucks, and I love you so much anyway.
I learned to talk to God, and I
learned to listen to Him in recovery.
I learned to take care of myself more,
take care of my body my emotional needs.
There's just so much
and I'm still learning.
So I, yeah, my relationship
with God is the biggest thing.
And then I would say the second
biggest thing is learning
about why I was doing it.
Cause everybody goes to porn,
to sex, to women for a reason.
Mine was that I didn't feel good enough.
I just didn't know that.
James: Yeah.
Sam: Tell us about the moment where
things started to switch for you
in your relationship with God.
I would imagine that
was pretty significant.
Nathan: The one that always comes
to mind was before I moved back
from Portland back to Salem,
before I found out about recovery.
I was in a church on a weekday practicing
organ because I played for my congregation
and It just wasn't coming out.
I was hitting all the wrong notes
and I was like, I should know this.
This sucks.
And I was just breaking down,
sobbing, having really exacerbated
reactions to really simple events
of me playing a song wrong.
And I was restless and irritable
wandering around the church and
said, God, I think you hate me.
But please just give me something.
walked into this empty room.
And there's a picture of
Jesus Christ on the wall.
I'm like, okay, cool.
I turned around and walked out and
I walked out to the parking lot and
there's this father with his young
son on a tricycle and they are both
just so in love with each other.
And God said, that is how I see you.
And I just.
Lost it, 45 minutes of me just bawling
and sobbing and letting God's love in
for the first time in a long, long time.
And that's also the day I made the
decision to move back , to Salem.
James: So I'm going to imagine there's
probably a lot of listeners out there
that are in a place of shame, self
hatred knowing that they need to be
fixed and that's why they're listening.
Right.
But they still need to.
Understand feel or sense that
God actually really loves them.
Was that a journey for you?
Was that a moment for you?
If you could give some advice
or some tips or insights into
some listeners at that stage,
Nathan: it's consistent effort.
God gave me a jumpstart in the story.
I just gave you.
James: Okay.
Nathan: And then I kept acting
out and then my sensitivity
to his love went back down.
James: Okay.
Nathan: But I knew it was there.
I could remember what it felt like.
Okay.
James: And
Nathan: so I kept looking for it.
James: Looking for it.
What does that mean?
For somebody who's
trying , what does that mean?
What do I do?
How do I look for it?
Nathan: Honestly, I think that event just
convinced me that I was worthy of it.
Somehow.
I didn't know how, but I finally
believed that I was worthy of God's love.
James: Okay.
Nathan: And then, that allowed me
to open myself up a little bit more.
And regular, everyday occurrences could
be testaments to me of God's love for me.
Of people at church saying
hi, and somebody checking in
and saying, how have you been?
All these things that, in the past, would
validate my sense of worth in a lustful
way, now they're These people are angels
sent from God checking in on me, and
that is how he's showing me he loves me.
And then, once I got some more of
that Went to boot camp, learned that
I can go out into the woods and kneel
down and pray and seek him for myself.
James: Yeah.
Nathan: And now that I believe
that he can love me, I will ask
him directly, do you love me?
James: Mm hmm.
Nathan: Okay, well I did this.
Do you still love me?
Oh, well, okay, that wasn't bad.
Let me tell you about
this bad thing I did.
Do you still love me?
Yes, I do.
Oh, so seeking for it,
asking for it every day.
I got into the habit a couple years
ago every time I, every time my
eyes were drawn to the female figure
out and about, I would say, God,
whatever she thinks about me is great.
What do you think about me?
Sam: Wow.
Nathan: Love that.
. It's powerful.
Sam: Yeah, that is powerful.
I'm hearing this beautiful contrast
this is what my world was like.
The ashes of, all the things I endured
when I was younger the, the self hatred,
the shame or perceived shame in a lot of
ways the feeling that they must hate me.
I must not be worthy.
And then you have one experience
where you suddenly started
to feel like, you know what?
I am worthy.
Nathan: Yeah.
Sam: And it's like our perspective
of the world is a reflection
of how we see ourselves.
Right.
And I love that quote
because I'm seeing that.
Suddenly everything shifted and
God showed you who you were and
everything started to change.
How do you see your perspective shift?
Throughout the course of your recovery
Nathan: There's always something new.
Where I think, Oh, if I could have known
that a year ago, and then I think, well,
no, this came exactly when it needed to.
So God always has more for me
to learn and love about myself.
James: So as you have gone on this
journey with God and are working to learn
about him, who he is, what he's like.
Who is God to you now?
Nathan: He's my daddy.
He loves me.
He is incredibly proud of me.
He's interested in what I'm interested in.
He's interested in the
project car I'm working in.
He's interested in my marriage.
He's interested in the
people I talk to at church.
He recognizes that I'm not perfect.
He doesn't expect me to be perfect.
Sam: But what if you did act out?
, That's
Nathan: fine.
Sam: Exactly.
Nathan: I'm, by his grace, I'm sober.
I wasn't sober forever.
I was sober for 11 months and then
the emotions got the better of me
and I masturbated and it sucked.
It was hard.
And then less than an hour later, I
knew once again, how much God loved me.
Sam: Hmm.
Nathan: So who is God?
He's everything.
He's, yeah, I guess I'll just leave it.
He's my dad.
Sam: It's really beautiful that the
ways that God could have us speak
of him, he chooses the word father.
James: Yeah.
Sam: What does it feel like to be fathered
by God in a process where you're failing?
and relapsing or having setbacks.
Nathan: I love the phrase fathered by God.
It feels so warm.
It feels like I'm looking at
the kid next door's dad, who
I think is the perfect dad.
Like, oh man, my dad
doesn't do that to me.
But, This dad does, and I really
don't mean to bash on my father or
my stepdad because my higher power
fathered me through both of them.
And I've learned a lot about being a
man from both of them in different ways.
But being fathered by God feels like being
loved by 40 different men in my life.
Sam: You started to experience worthiness
and love and being fathered by God.
Since you learned those truths and
started to have some shift in your
behavior and your thinking what has
that led to and what do things look
like for you right now in your life?
Nathan: It's led to A lot of step
12 work, which is carry the message
of recovery to other people.
I've sponsored some men.
There are so many men out there I need
to get to them because Samuel got to me.
And if there's just one person out
there, I can say , Oh, hey, yeah, I
watch pornography and masturbate and
to blow his mind and say, you can
talk about that, that, that would
be, that's what I want to be doing.
So that's where I'm at with my recovery.
I feel like, and there's
always more to learn.
I'm in a really difficult spot with
some, with like re contextualizing
my role in my marriage and the
role of recovery in marriage.
Where I'm at at the moment is, is just
getting it out to other people because
it's such a taboo topic like People can
say like, oh, yeah, I drink too much
of the bar on weekends And I'm kind of
ashamed of that but it's a lot Rarer,
I feel like to hear people say Yeah, I
watch porn after my wife goes to bed,
James: If you were to Talk about
late later stages of recovery then
what have been maybe one or two key
pieces that you've been picking up
lately that have Just been really
important or impactful for you
Because you have some
sobriety behind you now,
Nathan: yes Expecting other people
to be accountable for themselves.
I spent a lot of time the first few
people I sponsored god bless them.
I was like Oh, I will recover for you.
Your recovery will be
a measure of my faith.
So that was unfulfilling for both parties.
So just learning that this is my God
and he's also your God and he will
work with you all on your own time.
And in his own terms, and I don't
have to do that for anybody.
I can be his mouthpiece for those
who are willing to listen, but it's
also not a measure of my worth,
James: that's a good insight to have.
Sam: How long have you been sober?
Nathan: November 2nd, 2024.
So about a year and two months.
Sam: I love what you just said
about the measure of your worth.
The way you got sober, was that
you stopped equating the measure
of your worth to sobriety.
You stopped equating the measure
of your worth to your behavior.
You stopped equating the measure
of your worth to how many
women were lusting after you
Nathan: yeah.
Sam: It's funny cause, , you
think that's not how it works,
but it's actually that you learn
that you're worthy in the process.
Nathan: Yes.
Sam: And that's the thing.
That helps you to overcome it.
Nathan: There's some give and take.
I didn't learn the one big truth that
God loves me right at the beginning.
I learned to stop doing harmful behaviors
and learn to start doing some good things.
And then that truth just
kind of snuck in there.
Sam: So you're saying it's a process.
Nathan: It's a process.
Yeah.
Sam: What are some special nuggets,
some golden nuggets that you have?
Ah, man.
If you could sit down with someone
who's really in the thick of it, and
they just needed some spark notes about
what recovery is actually going to be
like.
Nathan: Self compassion is huge.
If I was sitting down with somebody
and they're in the thick of it, I'm
masturbating every day or a few times a
week, then I would tell them that's okay.
You can get better.
You can get better.
And that's okay.
hatred and low self esteem take a
lot of work to turn around, but they
can definitely be turned around.
It's so much easier to recover when
I'm being compassionate about myself.
When I have a relapse than
when I'm blaming myself.
So that's a big one.
Sam: What was the hardest thing sexually
to overcome with self compassion?
I'd imagine there were some
things that you just really
had a hard time letting go of.
Nathan: I had one event that
really let me know this is serious.
I went over to a young woman's
house when I was 19 or 20 and that
night got a call from a police
officer with a rape accusation.
That was also the first time I had
talked to my mom about anything since
I was 14 because I was terrified.
I was like, Mom, I was invited over
and now I have a rape accusation.
And what do I do?
That was really scary, but just
saying those words out loud that I
had sex, I did the thing that your
church and my church says not to do.
That was really hard because
I've never been able to
contact that individual again.
So I don't know the story at all.
. But I don't know why I got the rape
accusation when I thought I was
being invited over and I don't know
if I will know why in this life
forgiving myself for putting myself
in that position that's been hard.
. Sam: What's the song,
if you had to pick one,
That is recovery for you?
Nathan: There's an artist that
goes by the name of Holy and
he has a song called Jesus Saves.
The last few lines of the song are,
I know he has the power to save you
because out of all people he saved me.
He saved me from drugs, he saved
me from clubs, from hatred, from
Satan, from pride, from dying,
from porn, and from hoeing.
And, yeah, he's saved me too.
Sam: Love it.
Nathan, thanks for being on here, man.
You're a rock star.
Nathan: Thanks for having me.
Sam: Thanks for watching
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Thanks again for watching and until
next time, continue to live unashamed.
Here is Jesus saves.
Speaker: K.
O.
shot your ass.
Turn me up in the headphones.
Young K on the track.
I'm trying to reach for the stars.
I know I'm a star.
You can be whoever you wanna be.
Just go with your heart.
I was close to quitting on myself.
But God gave me a spark.
His Holy Spirit got me glowing for real.
I'm a light in the dark.
Yes Lord.
This ain't for the church, this for the
streets This for the humble, this for the
meek This for the single mothers with no
peace This for them young brothers pushin
pieces It's a way out, you just gotta
have faith God will never put too much
on your plate Man I read my Bible but I
pray e'ry day So I know that I'm covered
by grace They can't block my blessings,
back then I was on the corner beggin God
took me in when I was sloppy seconds Got
this real and it ain't no second guessin
Trust me, I was headed for the grave I
was blinded by the fame, I was a slave
You don't put your faith in Jesus, boy
you brave Man I tried to Let the world
know Jesus saves, cause he saved me, from
drugs, what else, from clubs, what else,
from pride, what else, from dying, what
else, from satan, what else, from hatred,
what else, from porn, what else, from
hoein', for real, he ain't nothing like
Cain but he able, ain't nothing but his
grace that unstable, you can't tell me
about nothing I know I'm favored, I ain't
used to all this love, I'm used to haters,
cause satan got the world backwards, got
the world full of demon bastards, got us
lost, got us all in shackles He a snake,
he a pterodactyl Can't believe you tried
to play me, dawg I want nothin but a
baby, dawg See, I know about your naive,
that stank lil girl Biting heads off of
baby dolls Lucifer, you a big hater I
wanna be your pump faker Stage dancing,
you a rump shaker Headshots, I'm throwing
haymakers I'm trying to tell him Jesus
saves, He's the one helped me change my
ways, It's gonna get hard but keep your
faith, And when you talk to God just keep
it straight, Gabbana out here giving game
for free, Gabbana out here praising G O
D, I know he got the power to save you,
Cause out of all people he saved me.
From drugs, what else?
From clubs, what else?
From pride, what else?
From dying, what else?
From Satan, what else?
From hatred, what else?
From porn, what else?
From hoein', for real
I serve a big God
I know he got the power to save
you Cause out of all the people
he saved me, for real And Gobana