Breaking down barriers and transforming legal education through community law clinics

In this episode of Stories of Wonder, learn about Michele's journey and how she is transforming legal education through community law clinics, empowering students and supporting underserved local communities.

Find out more at https://50years.deakin.edu.au/story/deakin-law-students-break-down-barriers-for-justice/

Please note: The individual views and opinions expressed in this video do not necessarily reflect those of Deakin as an organisation. Deakin is committed to fostering a safe, inclusive, and supportive environment where both freedom of speech and academic freedom are vigorously upheld. Our community thrives on diverse opinions and perspectives, with open-minded inquiry and respectful disagreement essential to our university culture.

What is Stories of Wonder?

Stories of Wonder platforms and celebrates the real impact Deakin students, alumni, researchers and staff are making in the world, right now.

Michele Tucker's journey has been
anything but ordinary. From dropping

out of high school and working as a
legal junior at 15, to graduating as a

lawyer, all while raising a child. With
deep roots in the Geelong community,

her story is one of
passion and resilience.

Not just in carving a path for herself,
but for the next generation of lawyers.

As the principal solicitor and coordinator
of Deakin's community law clinics, she's

providing hands-on legal training that
connects theory with real world impact.

Law students at Deakin aren't just
studying the law, they're practicing it.

Being given the chance to work with real
clients and deliver vital legal support

to people who might otherwise go without.

This is the story of a bold initiative
that's bringing legal education into

the heart of local communities, and the
inspiring educator who's leading the way.

Recorded on the lands of the Wurundjeri
people, this is Stories of Wonder.

Michele Tucker, welcome.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

Pleasure.

Firstly, tell me how long have
you been working at Deakin?

At Deakin, I've been
teaching for about 13 years.

I started off as a sessional academic
and was casual for about seven years and

then became permanent in the law school.

I was then a teaching scholar and then
I entered the clinic when the former

principal lawyer was in there and I was
helping out with the family law practice,

because I'm also a practicing solicitor.

And then, the principal solicitor left.

So I then took on that role and I've
been principal solicitor of Deakin Law

Clinic and coordinator since March '22.

So a few years now.

So what was your introduction to law
like in your life and working in it?

When I was younger, I wanted to be a
lawyer, but I didn't know how to be a

lawyer or I was always interested in the
law, but I didn't like school and never

saw it as something that I could attain.

I grew up in the northern suburbs
in Geelong, in Norlane and Corio.

Mum was a single mum, we were
in housing commission house, and

I was the eldest of five girls.

So it was a very busy household and I
didn't like school and felt that, I was

ready to go and work and earn some money.

So I actually left school at 15.

At 15?

Yeah, September of year 10 I left.

And I remember going and getting my
form signed in the high school and

they're like, what are you going to do?

And I had a job at that stage,
but so how it came about, I said

to mum in the morning, I don't
wanna go to school anymore.

I don't want school.

She said, you're not
leaving, just for any job.

You need a job.

And I opened up the newspaper and there
was a legal junior position in Belmont in

which is a suburb of Geelong, so a legal
junior, in a law firm in Belmont, and I

had an interview that day and got the job.

And so mum's like "damn".\

Oh wow.

Yeah.

So yeah, I started working
full-time as a 15-year-old.

Didn't even finish year 10, in a law firm,

And what does a legal junior do?

I did everything from mail.

'cause back then, there
was no email and things.

It was the old DOS computers.

And so mail some conveyancing transactions
you'd assist on the conveyancing files.

The banking each day, typing up
small letters and correspondence,

dealing with clients, reception.

So essentially you were
the jack of all trades.

You are running around helping the
lawyers, cleaning out their offices.

Wow.

If they needed help.

So I worked there until I was about
18, and then I went to Melbourne.

And lived up in Melbourne for a few years,
worked in a law firm up there and was

a settlement clerk and running around
the city all day doing conveyancing

settlements and a mortgage clerk, and then
came back to Geelong for eight years in

a law firm in Geelong, and then decided
that I had gone as far as I could go.

I was a practice manager at that
stage, and accounts manager and

thought it's time to get a law degree.

So I applied for law but didn't get in.

Yeah.

How do you do that when you
haven't finished school?

Yeah, I'd never written
an essay in my life.

I had never, it's, so I applied,
I sat a DULSAT test for Deakin.

So what's does that

Deakin University law admissions test.

And at that time, this was 2002.

At that time, they were only
accepting four mature age positions.

Oh, wow.

And there was hundreds of people sitting
this test, and I wasn't successful,

which I didn't expect to be because of
my lack of education in that respect.

Yeah.

So I applied for an arts degree,
and I only knew about this

because of the lawyers I worked
with and the young lawyers.

And I was quite disappointed I didn't get
into law and living in Geelong and I was a

single mother at this stage, but I didn't
have an opportunity to go to any other

university than Deakin, which is terrific.

So I'm a Deakin alumni.

Deakin offers regional students,
options to study in Geelong, which

is, was great for me at the time.

So one of the lawyers I was working with,
she said, there's other ways you can.

Get into law, and I didn't know anyone
that had ever been to university

other than the people I worked with.

No one in my family
had been to university.

It was only later on that some
of my family actually finished

year 12, but at that stage, no
one had even finished year 12.

So I applied for an arts degree
and got in and started the arts

degree and then transferred across,
got good marks, transferred across

to the double degree with law.

Yeah.

So it was really just
through your network of

Yes.

People that you'd established from working

That's right.

adjacent to law, like in law that
you were able to figure that out.

Yeah.

Figure the pathway out.

Yeah.

The legal industry in Geelong is
very, friendly and accommodating

and A great support network.

Lawyers and, All legal stuff.

So yeah, it's a great
profession in Geelong.

So you finally get into law, you do
your degree, you're a single mother.

Yep.

At this point as well.

Yes.

Which is so impressive.

Yeah, and again, sometimes I wonder
if it is generational, growing up

northern suburbs, a lot of single
parent families in Norlane and Corio

and it's, so I had my son young.

I was only 20 and, yeah, I was
still working three jobs and

Three jobs?

Studying full time at universities-

and studying full time?

-Double degree and fulltime.

Oh my gosh.

What?

Yeah.

And what were these jobs?

Were you still

I was managing two law firms.

Wow.

And doing the books of another law firm.

Oh my gosh.

just small firms.

Yeah.

And what was it like to study, when
you had already been around law firms

for that long and you were already in.

The workforce in a way.

what did that do for your
work ethic compared to the

people you were studying with?

And also just how did you manage
the pressure of keeping all those

plates spinning in the air while
raising a child and studying law?

Yeah, look, there was tough times
and I remember meeting with a

counselor at the university saying,
I'm struggling to find time to study.

And she said, you've got a lot
going on and you have to have the

capacity to study, whether it's time
or the mental, toughness to do it.

So she said, I think
you need to drop a unit.

I said, that won't accord with my
timeline of how I wanna do things.

I'm lucky I had a good mum, so
she helped me out with my son.

Which is really good.

family support is really great,
but you just get it done.

And I had a goal and I
wanted to achieve it.

yeah.

Yeah.

No other option.

Yeah, that's right.

So from there, firstly, what was it like
when you finally finished your course and

you actually officially became a lawyer?

It was amazing.

I counted down 40 exams and got to the
40th and it was like, wow, I'm here.

And look, I always felt that the students
and the younger students knew more than

I did, and were more educated than I did.

Going back to the question about
studying law, as in working in

law firms, it is very different.

Often what I was learning in the
classroom or the lectures, I thought,

how am I going to use that in practice?

And so you're essentially learning
the theory and how to find the

answer and research the law
rather than actually practice it.

It is two totally different
things in respect.

So practical skills, actually the
practice of law is totally different.

It's putting those research skills
we learn into use, but you also,

there's a whole nother layer of
practical skills that you need

as a practicing lawyer as well.

And I think, I was lucky I had
that from working in the law

firms and had, been mentored and
witnessed a lot of great lawyers.

that I worked for as well, that
were really good at what they did.

I, in my arts degree, I did
anthropology and criminology

and I really enjoyed, those.

I did a major and a minor, because I
could be a little bit more passionate

and, engaged with the content, in the
arts subjects, the social sciences,

because the law can be really dry.

It's very factual.

It's very, pragmatic, logical.

Apply the law to the facts
and, come up with a solution.

So I really did enjoy, having
the balance of both degrees.

You are now a lawyer.

You, how did you end up at Deakin and
just picking up on one of the points that

you raised there, like obviously because
of your experience with where you were

working at the time, you were able to
connect the dots a little bit in like the

theory and then how to, like you've seen
examples of how to put it into practice,

which maybe not everyone in your course at
the time had experienced, that's obviously

what you're trying to do now, in your
work at Deakin with the Popup Law Clinic.

So just explain to me how, what your
journey was to get to Deakin and

then maybe we'll go into a little bit
of, what you're doing, here today.

Yeah, sure.

When you study law, you don't really work
out what area you want to practice in.

You learn all the areas of law.

And then it depends on opportunities
and job opportunities and the like.

So I was practicing in family law in
Geelong full time once I was admitted.

And so you get admitted to the
Supreme Court as a practicing

lawyer, and I didn't really enjoy a
full-time family law, didn't love it.

It's very taxing.

Yeah.

Emotional toll on clients.

It's the worst time of their lives,
and you're assisting them through it.

So it was, I was still learning how
to separate myself from that and leave

work at work and not take it home.

And I enjoyed the actual
law itself, family law.

That dealing with clients, was
taking the toll on me at that time.

And, it's good that we recognise
the different areas of law, that we

like and we don't like, and so on.

So I then, a colleague in Geelong, had
some teaching opportunity and he said,

do you wanna teach Law for Commerce?

It was.

And I was able to contact the lecturer
at Deakin and got some sessional work and

started off teaching law for Commerce and
that expanded to other units and yeah,

then I was in the law school from then on.

Talk to me a little bit about the popup
law clinics at Deakin, what it means

for the students and, I guess why it's
an important element of studying law.

Yeah, so Deakin Law
Clinic, we are a law firm.

We're a registered law firm.

From 2017, we were registered
with the Legal Services Board and

we're a community legal service.

So we provide free legal advice
and assistance to community

members, who are eligible.

We do have a criteria, and I'll talk about
that in a moment, but essentially we're

a teaching clinic, It's a real law firm.

We have real clients and the students
get to work on real client matters.

They get to interview the clients,
they get to draft the letters

of advice, the court documents.

They get to come to court with
us when we do the court matters,

so they're fully involved.

We run a series of seminars with them
so we don't throw them in the deep

end, but on client interviewing skills
and plain language writing and so on.

But we take the holistic approach as
in, it's not just about teaching them

practical skills to be a good lawyer.

It's about those other skills.

And some people don't like the word
soft skills, but soft skills such as

empathy and kindness because a lot of
these clients are going through, really

hard times in their lives and just being
able to convey that and help them solve

a problem, the clients are so grateful.

The impact it has and the great outcomes
we're getting for clients is really good.

But in turn, the impact on the students,
we teach them about professionalism

and reputation and ethical conduct,
as well as those practical legal

skills to be a good lawyer.

So they get to do the client
intake, meet the client.

Work on their matters and see
some really good outcomes and

it's really good for the students.

So impact on the community, impact on
the clients, and impact for the students.

So each trimester we get a new
cohort of students and we have

five practice areas that don't
always run, depends on staffing.

But we have a criminal law
practice, employment law practice,

generalist law, family law practice,
and a policy clinic as well.

In trimester 2 2024,

I already had a relationship
with Cloverdale community

centre previously from Law Week.

So Victoria Law Foundation operates
law week in May every year, and it's

where the community, there's all
these law events to help the community

understand what's out there, legal
services and their rights under the law.

So Victoria Law Foundation,
Deakin Law School sponsor, and we

would hold some events on behalf
of Victoria Law Foundation as

Deakin Law School as a sponsor.

And I would present out at Cloverdale
Community centre, for instance.

And this in north
Geelong, isn't that right?

Yeah.

So in the northern suburbs of Geelong,
there's Norlane and Corio, and Cloverdale

is the neighbourhood centre out there.

And.

That's where I grew up.

That's my,

wow.

That's my hood is my home.

Yeah.

And my mum still lives out there.

My nan's in aged care in Norlane.

They lived there for 60 years,

So it's your community really?

It is my community and I am
very passionate about it and

very defensive of it as well.

A lot of people are double income,
hardworking, but there's also does have

a higher rate of people on Centrelink,
disability pensions, for example.

There's a high rate of
mental health, unemployment.

Unemployment in Norlane is 19.5%.

In Corio it's 12.5% and the
Geelong average is 4.5%.

Wow.

Yeah.

So there's various reasons for
disadvantage in the suburbs, it's

more culturally diverse, but going
back to unemployment, for example,

if you're even employed for one hour,
you're not included in the statistics.

So it's not truly reflective.

Yep.

So there is a greater need out there,
and it is an underserved community

in the needs for access to justice.

If legal assistance and access
to justice is not met, then it

causes further disadvantage.

There was a victoria Law Foundation,
public understanding of law survey

called Pulse done in the last couple
of years as three volumes, and it

just confirms what we know that often,
disadvantaged communities have multiple

layers of legal issues and that can
lead to other issues that aren't

specifically legal, but it's because
those legal issues haven't been solved

or met, the legal needs haven't been
met, that it then has a knock on effect.

Yeah.

And it might lead to,
health issues or illness.

It might need to unemployment, it might.

Lead to homelessness or losing housing.

So it's one set of disadvantages begets

That's right.

And compounds.

Yeah, that's right.

So when, we created the pop-up clinic,
I contacted Liz Bonner, she's the

CEO at Cloverdale, very passionate
about her community and they all

are, and the community centre out
there, they have, projects all

the time to serve the community.

They have education programs, but
they also have, a wraparound service.

And again, we want to bring the
collective together here, but

they'll have social work students,
assisting community members out there.

They'll have, support workers, volunteers.

So it's trying to get all these different
aspects of a community, what their

needs are and trying to help them with
all issues that they might be facing.

Legal issues are just one.

Yeah.

And it would be, it's a part
of that collective service.

And specifically they're trying to
bring these, services in a centralised

sort of place to the community, of
people that may not even know where

to start with some of their issues.

That's right.

They don't even know where to start.

Often there's two sort of
types, of community members.

Some that do know where to maybe
get some help and ask for help.

But often, resources are so stretched
they often don't get the help they need

to actually fix the legal problem anyway.

Yeah.

Or there's many that just
have no clue where to start.

Yeah.

They dunno where to start at all.

So we had a team of, nine students
in this particular pop-up clinic and

I arranged with Liz at Cloverdale
that the students would go out there

one day a week on site and meet the
community, be immersed in the community.

And we scheduled appointments across the
day, every Thursday for the clients to

see students and get some legal advice
and assistance with their matters.

It was such a success because not only
did we help clients, and I'll talk

about a couple of the matters, but the
students, the impact on the students,

they were immersed in this community.

Many of whom are very disadvantaged.

And some of our students, not all of
them, but some of our students can be

from quite affluent backgrounds and
have never been exposed to disadvantage.

Yeah, I was gonna say.

What does it mean for the students really?

Because it would be a whole
different, it would give them a

whole different perspective on
the issues or in fact, unbundling

like the people from the issues.

That's right.

And putting them back together again,
putting it into perspective as to what

these people are dealing with and maybe
why these issues then have come around.

Yeah, that's right.

So a prime example of that is, one
of the clients, and this is just

an example of many clients, but
one might have, a motor vehicle

accident and doesn't have insurance.

And is on a disability
pension and can't pay.

We'll assist with the motor
vehicle accident and dealing with

the other party or their insurer.

And then it turns out, this
same person might have tens of

thousands of dollars of fines.

And they're just ignoring that,
burying their head 'cause they

don't know where to start.

And it's, fines, parking fines,
speeding fines, traffic infringements,

all different fines that they just
ignore and bury their head, we

assist them resolving that matter.

And then you look at the holistic,
picture here and that client might

be paying $450 a week in rent,
but he is on a disability pension.

And

this client in particular,
the students then helped get

on the public housing list.

and the client didn't know where to
start, didn't know how to use a computer,

didn't know how to fill out a form.

And so the students were able to assist
by completing the application for public

housing, for the Department of Housing.

And this client was so grateful and
students, this is just one example

of how, there's varying things in
someone's life that can impact and then.

Perpetuate and continue the disadvantage.

Yeah, and it's like a completely
different scale of issues and different

set of choices to what most people
might have to make in their life.

You've got this massive issue.

I'm not even gonna bother starting
one of them 'cause it's all

gonna beget another problem.

That's right.

And a lot of that's
quite administrative, so

Yeah.

What is the typical kind
of experience for students?

Are they all taking on cases
and going to court and fighting

them out with your guidance?

Or is some of this, resolved in the room?

yeah.

In a, on a smaller scale
or easier to solve?

Yeah, a lot of what we do as lawyers,
it's not all like the TV and the

students get disappointed when they

Do they ever say-

How come it's not like Suits

-
No, you're out of order!

Is there any of that going on?

Objection.

Objection.

It's a lot of what we do as lawyers and
teaching students is we negotiate and try

and get a good outcome for the client.

And often that means not going to court
a good outcome, it's trying to resolve

the matter before it gets to that point.

And so we're, we are very
good problem solvers.

We're fix at people is
what I tell the students.

And often, you can see some of
them might be legal issues, but

there's other issues that might be
impacting those legal issues as well.

So it's trying to even refer
them to other services.

Counseling, social work, local
support services to assist with

those other issues as well.

It's making sure you identify them.

What does this kind of mean for the
community, especially your, personal

kind of community of Cloverdale.

So the popup clinic has
a variety of matters.

There might've been family law matters,
intervention order matters, wills

and estates, powers of attorney,
fines, debts, infringement, notices,

so various, very civil practice,
generalist practice as such.

And so you are helping the community
with all different reasons, and a lot of

these community members don't know where
to get legal help, but also getting to

a lawyer's office can be quite daunting.

Yeah.

So to be able to go into their local
community centre and with people they

know and volunteers and supportive,
welcoming people and sit down and get some

legal advice is great for the community.

It really is.

And the feedback we got from Cloverdale
and its community is that it was such

a successful program and that, and
sometimes a client might think they've

got a legal issue and there wasn't,
and just getting that clarification.

Okay, there's no issue there or, no,
there's no grounds there, but they

just wanna have an understanding of an
issue that might, they might be facing

and just explaining that to them in,
straightforward, plain, realistic terms.

And then they go, okay, I realise I can't,
there isn't anything I can do about that.

but in term, we solved many problems, for
clients that they had been facing as well.

Can't do everything.

So the pop-up clinic, we didn't
go to court, for people because

we were based out there.

So it was generally more a civil
service in the respect that we're

just resolving a lot of their issues.

they had with court sometimes we can
refer them out or we can refer them

to one of our other practice areas.

So for instance, one of the clients had
an intervention order matter and our

family law practice does intervention
orders and we go to court on a Wednesday.

So we just transferred that internally.

So that worked as well.

with our family law practice in
Geelong, we do a duty lawyer service

at the court every Wednesday.

And the students get to go to court
with the lawyer and they get to

liaise with the court staff, the
police, the court registry, the

magistrate, the other lawyers, and
they get to see it all working.

So it's, that's also a really
great service for the community.

And with the popup clinics, are there
any other places that these happen?

Not at the moment.

So that was, our first,
and it was such a success.

I've then transferred that to what's
called now the generalist practice,

and I'm running that in the city.

At Downtown at the moment.

So that's the generalist practice, which
is, across all different areas of law.

There might be opportunity down the track.

It just depends on resourcing and capacity

And what does this kind of work
integrated learning really mean

for the students and how have they
found like these popup clinics?

Yeah, so all students have to do
a work integrated learning unit

as a core for their law degree.

The feedback from the students, they
were posting on LinkedIn, they, the

impact on the students was tremendous.

They said it was their best experience.

They were, it's funny, they, a couple
of students claimed they were a

little bit scared going out to Corio.

Yeah.

And I, again, defensive
-that's my hometown.

But they were so immersed with the
community and really thrived out

there and knew they were making a
difference and just the gratefulness,

the community was grateful, but the
gratitude and the feeling of, making

a difference the students got from
that pop-up clinic is really good.

I'd like to do many pop-up
clinics at various locations.

it's just all a matter of
capacity and resources.

Yeah.

You were on the cover of Northerly
Aspects, magazine, celebrating

Geelong's Northern Suburbs.

You're a bit of a hometown
hero by the looks of it.

Yeah, the magazine was in the local
coffee shop, and my mum and Nan's

friends were all saying, your daughter's
on the cover, which was a bit cute.

What does it mean to you
personally to be able to run these

clinics in a place like that?

It's very satisfying, helping.

Helping people solve their legal problems
that can't help themselves, essentially.

That's what it comes down to, and it
is a really underserved community.

I would like to have an ongoing popup
clinic in the northern suburbs, ongoing.

I'd like to have one in
a suburb of Melbourne.

I think it's a difference that Deakin...
Not only are we impacting the community

that we're immersed in, the impact for
the students is, as I said, tremendous.

and I just think that it should be
something, it's a civic duty as well.

It's giving back and knowing that's
where I came from, giving back to my

community and helping people that need
it the most is, yeah, very rewarding.

It's something I want to continue to do.

Is there anything that Deakin's Law
Clinics offer, that's a bit different to

what some of the other universities do?

Okay, so Deakin Law Clinic,
like I said, we are a law firm.

We do try and make sure that all our
students can access a law clinic in

respect of, we have a Geelong office,
we have a Melbourne office, so that

allows the regional students to
undertake a law clinic and also the

Melbourne students to attend in the city.

But the policy clinic, for
instance, is run online as well.

So that enables our online cohort, whether
you live interstate or in Melbourne to,

or you can't get on into the office.

It allows our online cohort to
actually participate in a clinic as

well, which is terrific, which I do
think makes the law clinic stand out.

As for the types of work we do,
there's different community legal

services and different law clinics
within law schools that have

different types of practice areas.

Most of them are advice only.

And so essentially there'll be an
intake day where the law clinic will

see the clients and then they provide
an advice and then see you later.

So a lot of those clinics, and
there's varying different clinics,

but a lot of the clinics are
80% advice only, 20% case work.

At Deakin Law Clinic,
we're 20% advice only.

And it might be quick advice
because there's a deadline for

the client that we can't meet
because we're a teaching clinic.

So we just give a quick advice
to help them meet that deadline.

So 20% advice only, and 80% casework.

So that means we actually run
the files, we run the matters,

we get the matter resolved.

We come up with settlement agreements.

An example is in the
employment law practice.

There might be, an employee that's been
underpaid, owed thousands of dollars.

We act for that client against the
employer, and we recover the money

and we get in terms of settlement.

Wow.

Yeah.

So you can follow up and follow it.

That's right.

All the way sometimes.

So we actually resolve the matter.

It's not just providing advice.

So we can't always, it depends on
capacity and resources, on deadlines.

Sometimes a client, and again, this
comes back to sometimes the clients,

if they can't help themselves,
they're not going to come to us

until the last possible minute.

And then it's like look, there
isn't a lot we can do with you

for you in the short time, but we
can give you some quick advice.

Okay.

But often they are because they're burying
their head and they don't know what to do.

These deadlines are looming and, they
can't assist themselves, so often

we're just trying to put out smaller
fires and get extensions of time.

Yeah.

To try and be able to assist them as well.

What is it like for the students to
have to experience or maybe witness

giving quite hard advice to people
that are coming to them for help?

With the students, a lot of the
matters can be quite confronting if

there's family violence involved, which
obviously, is rife in our society.

and family violence intervention
orders and things, some of the

content can be quite confronting.

It's building that resilience and
all those other skills I talk about,

the holistic, not just the practical
skills it's dealing with that.

What we do in the clinic is we have a lot
of debriefs and the students will all get

together and we debrief about our clients.

Because of client confidentiality, they
can't go and talk to anyone about clients.

So it's important that the
students debrief and we have a

debrief at the end of the day.

And, I do this in practice with
my team of lawyers as well.

We talk about our matters.

it's like any workplace where,
you have to debrief to be

able to let it go and move on.

But they can be confronting.

And I think it just, it's good
for the students because they are

realising there's people that are
suffering and impacted by things

sometimes out of their control.

And to be able to help in matters where
these clients are very vulnerable and

exposed and often suffering trauma
and their legal issues compound that.

And many of them are created
from the legal issues.

So it's obviously a high pressure
job, especially psychologically.

So I guess providing that kind of
avenue to debrief and all of that

gets them into a good habit of, and
a good practice of figuring out what

it's gonna feel like to do this job
day to day and how to cope with it.

For sure.

Emotional wellbeing of the students and
the staff and the solicitors themselves

is paramount because a lot of the
matters do have some confronting material

Yeah.

That the students see
and the solicitors see.

So debriefing is.

Essential to making sure we're taking
care of their emotional wellbeing.

So we've done the popup
clinic in Cloverdale, there

could be more in the future.

We've got the ongoing clinics as
well in the city and in Geelong.

These are giving, you know, Deakin
students practical experience and

the experience of feeling like
it's gonna be like to be a lawyer.

What does the future look like
of studying law at Deakin?

I think Deakin does practical really well.

We are known for student
satisfaction and definitely that

it is a more practical law degree.

The law clinic is essential in that
respect, so any work integrated

learning unit supports the practical
degree, but just doing a law clinic

and running client files and working
on client matters under the supervision

of lawyers, is just an experience that
they're not going to get all the time.

So I would like to expand the pop-up
clinic so that we could include more

neighbourhood houses eventually because
the neighbourhood houses provide a

great support network and we could
rotate different neighbourhood houses,

and I think that would be great.

Not only impact for those communities
that need it the most, but also the

impact on the students on an ongoing
basis and the opportunity for the

students to participate and immerse
themselves in their community.

That's something they're not going to
get with just studying in the classroom.

Michele Tucker, thank you so
much for being with us today.

Thank you, Dom.