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Welcome to Founder-Led, featuring founders scaling 7 and 8 figure companies who share the strategies and mindset driving real growth.
Brought to you by LinkedIn Growth Engine. We help established recruitment and staffing firm owners land new clients from LinkedIn by turning their executive content and insights into a trust building inbound lead engine.
We partner with $1M to $20M+ agency founders to build visibility, authority, and trust that drives pipeline, without turning you into a “content creator.” Over the last 12 months, we've helped drive $20M+ in booked revenue from LinkedIn.
If you're done relying on referrals and want prospects coming in pre sold, you're in the right place.
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Speaker 1
Welcome to Founder Lead, where we sit down with some of the sharpest founder operators to learn what's working in their business today.
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Speaker 1
This episode is brought to you by Frontier Content Studio,
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Speaker 1
a revenue minded content partner
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Speaker 1
helping businesses grow their visibility, authority and ultimately their business from LinkedIn.
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Speaker 1
So if you're ready to join over 30 founder led brands,
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Speaker 1
turning executive thought leadership content into real revenue,
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Speaker 1
common thought leadership below and someone from our team will reach
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Speaker 1
Now let's get to today's episode.
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Speaker 1
Today's guest is Jesse Kirschbaum, founder and CEO of New Agency
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Speaker 1
one of the clearest thinkers on how music can create real leverage for brands.
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Speaker 1
What makes Jesse especially interesting is that he's not just talking about music as culture or entertainment.
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Speaker 1
He's built a business
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Speaker 1
around helping brands
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Speaker 1
use it. As this year's growth,
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Speaker 1
differentiation,
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Speaker 1
audience building channel.
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Speaker 1
this conversation, we get into why music is still underused in B2B and brand marketing,
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Speaker 1
how businesses can use it in new and innovative ways.
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Speaker 1
Jesse, welcome to the show.
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Speaker 2
So glad to be here.
00:01:06:20 - 00:01:08:12
Speaker 2
Great to chat.
00:01:08:17 - 00:01:09:22
Speaker 2
How's things going?
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Speaker 1
It's going great. Well, Jess. You know, when we spoke last week, I knew we had to have you on the show. You've got a really interesting founder journey, you know, an 18 year career arc. You've started working with artists, and now you're working directly with brands. So we'd love if you can give us the highlights of your kind of origin story that led you to where you are now with new agency.
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Speaker 1
Awesome.
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Speaker 2
So I started new agency because I saw the world of booking talent and what was going on in the music business. I fell in love with music when I was throwing parties in high school and then studied it in college, studied business, and was putting on events and interning at various organizations in college and realized that music was an X factor.
00:01:55:17 - 00:02:13:11
Speaker 2
It was making events better. It was bringing people together. It was things people were talking about. It was a huge passion point with my peers, and it just I knew that music was one of those things that just made everything a little better, if done right, and could be very.
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Speaker 1
It could.
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Speaker 2
Mess up a vibe if done wrong. And so I started to learn the business of music, because I was putting on these events and
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Speaker 2
I started my company looking at the landscape and saying I wanted to do things different, I wanted to do things new. And I started the company about 18 years ago, seeing that there was this digital revolution.
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Speaker 2
I went to college during the Napster revolution. I first got out into the business and was excited about what was going on in the internet, but everybody in my industry was saying, this is the worst thing that's ever happened, because it was decimating the old model of the selling of the CD for $20 a pop, you know, by tens of millions.
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Speaker 2
Now all of a sudden, the floodgates were opening. Piracy was starting to happen. Brands like Napster and then LimeWire were becoming the the voice of the people. And I was first hand as this music lover and, you know, intern and promoter, seeing that this was going to be a wave that was going to be very good for music fans, but had a lot of pushback.
00:03:25:20 - 00:03:52:17
Speaker 2
And so I started the career, you know, finding and developing talent and booking artists. And eventually I said, I want to go out and do this my own and do it a new way. And that's why I started a new agency. And the goal was to use the technology of web two, right, social media and SoundCloud and these new early platforms and find talent, YouTube and find talent.
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Speaker 2
So I signed an artist named Wale off of Myspace. I met his, you know, manager on Facebook, and we were just starting to put together these different. No, I'm sorry. I met his manager on Friendster.
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Speaker 1
Wow.
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Speaker 2
No, I thought about that. So I was using these technologies and creating networks and finding talent and breaking artists and focused on the text based, focused on the college market, trying to do things different. And I did that for about 7 or 8 years and had a really good run with new agency, with finding artists. I signed Mike Posner, who was at Duke University, and he went on to like a top ten album and top five song.
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Speaker 2
This was before he had a record label, before he had all of those things. I was his talent agent and we were just touring with just a, you know, one, one person show playing colleges like it. We were doing three shows a night and, you know, had to get him home for, for the weekend,
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Speaker 2
for the weekdays so he could graduate on time and then like signed artists like Chitty Bang and signed artists like Jake Cole, Big Sean and Logic when he was in College Park.
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Speaker 2
And I was his first agent of record. And, you know, groups like White Panda, which have now spawned, you know, solo deejays like Griffin, all of these were clients of mine when I had the agency, when I was representing artists, and then
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Speaker 2
about
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Speaker 2
7 or 8 years of doing that, I kind of had a quarter life crisis to some extent.
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Speaker 2
Just decided I wanted to change the business model. And I would, you know, looked at what I thought was a big next big opportunity in music. And I saw that brands were an underrepresented space in the music world. A lot of people were looking at music brand partnerships as selling out, and I saw this as an opportunity to really catapult an artist's career, as the business was kind of figuring itself out live business was still healthy, but there was less record support, there was less tour support.
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Speaker 2
And I thought brands could be a, you know, a big way into the music business. And I was doing it with my artists and my clients, and I said, we could do this even better for brands beyond just my roster. And so I rebranded the company and change directions. And for the past ten years, I've been this creative music agency focused on helping brands make deep, meaningful connections to their consumers by leveraging the power of music.
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Speaker 2
And that might be an artist collab. It might be a sink for a commercial. It might be a content series where we're telling stories with musicians. My belief is that musicians are the ultimate creators, and we're seeing this whole influencer agency in this influencer world explode. And musicians don't just have nice eyelashes, they make music that can travel at the speed of culture, and so is a huge connectivity point and have real fans that are excited by them.
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Speaker 2
So helping musicians do more and more brand deals, by helping brands get deeper and deeper into and leveraging music deeper and deeper, that's my company business, and that's kind of my my life's work.
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Speaker 1
Oh yeah, I can feel the passion as you're sharing that story. And that's so true, right? Like, music really is the universal language. Like regardless of your culture or geography or country or whatever. Politics, like sometimes like there's a song why? There's a reason why, like, you know, the Beatles or Rihanna or certain artists, like, they just go global and they have that global impact because there's this resonance that this music has that just like hits and connects with people.
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Speaker 1
So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Something that you said is, you know, music really is undervalued as a marketing channel.
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Speaker 1
How do you how do you quantify
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Speaker 1
the like the, you know, the unit cost of music and like compare it to other, say, initiatives that a brand marketer might be thinking about? How do you put music side by side and prove that there's so much upside with with music as a marketing mechanism?
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Speaker 2
My belief is that every brand should have a music strategy the same way they thought about social media to some capacity, or they needed a brand identity, or now they're thinking about AI or different facets of entertainment. Music is should be a layer in the brand DNA, and it's a complicated thing to think about. It's not something that you can just throw against the wall and say, you're going to have a music strategy the same way you would do social at a very or paid media at a very high end, specific way.
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Speaker 2
You want an expert in there that can give a holistic view of the industry, that understands what artists are in cycles and what labels make sense to collaborate with, or what's the best path of least resistance to getting the right talent for your event. So what we do is have strategy as kind of the core, and then from an activation standpoint is really about what the brand is trying to achieve and how music can play a component.
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Speaker 2
If it's a song in a commercial to the artist being the hero of the campaign, and this could work for big brands, it can work for emerging brands. Because music is such a core passion point for consumers across the board, right? Think about it. People might not like sports. People might not like food. They're not foodies. They might not be into fashion.
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Speaker 2
But everybody to some capacity can relate to music. And so I've built this business around the fact that music is this unifying force, and that's undeniable at this point. So how do you quantify it? Right. It's a little bit more complicated than the bottom of the funnel conversions of like a Facebook ad or a, you know, influencer pay for play, where you know very clearly that that influencers code is going to end up being
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Speaker 2
directly traced and tracked.
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Speaker 2
We look at this more on sentiment, right? When you're shifting culture, it.
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Speaker 1
Takes time.
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Speaker 2
And there's a lot of tangential that you might not see in the same capacity that you would if you're just doing like a straight pay for play campaign, these creative
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Speaker 2
kind of projects or using music, we can market with sentiment. We know that it works in terms of press and earned media. We know that it generates talk,
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Speaker 2
but the direct conversion to sales can take some time.
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Speaker 2
So it does have to require somebody to have a little bit of a longer scope or longer lens, and how they want to shift in culture and understand that when you shift culture, it's a seismic opportunity for your brand. But on top of that, you can measure it in various ways, right? Like we just clearly define the KPIs.
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Speaker 2
What is our goal? If our goal is
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Speaker 2
brand affinity, if our goal is to open up new channels of business opportunities, if our goal is storytelling, if our goal is to attract new audiences, or to go deeper with a core audience, that's all very traceable, just requires an understanding. And then as an undervalued asset. The thing is that a lot of people don't fully understand how to use music, so there is less and less brands in music than there would be, like in the creator economy, where it's a very clear interaction where you can, you know, buy it through a subscription service, through an influencer agency.
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Speaker 2
The music business is a little complicated to navigate so that that's one barrier to entry. And secondly, it's you know, how you quantify what you're doing requires specialists. So with the right person in between to build that strategy, the results are exponential because we know how powerful music is as a marketing vehicle. It's just needs to be tapped on a more universal way.
00:12:27:22 - 00:12:44:10
Speaker 2
So the beauty is that there's so much more technology making what I do easier and clearer to explain for others to get on board. But it's really still this product that people don't know how to tap that has huge exponential
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Speaker 2
sentiment, sentimental value, and when done right, is hugely effective in selling products, in telling stories, in in building brand.
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Speaker 1
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I think another thing is when I think of, you know, what are these big branding assets? I think of like a Super Bowl commercial or, you know, a billboard strategy of having your logo on like an F1 car or something like this, where it's much more visible and you can see it, and there's a way to say like, you know, track impressions or these sort of things, but that sounds like that's also the opportunity where
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Speaker 1
maybe VP's of marketing and CMOs, they don't know how to understand what a music strategy can even look like.
00:13:31:20 - 00:13:56:19
Speaker 1
But that sounds like it's an early adopter opportunity, right? So is there like an example you can point to of a brand? And we have listeners that are both like they run B2B companies as well as more consumer base. So feel free to pick either example. But we get to just kind of like make it real with a story where a brand business brought in and had a music strategy and how that unfolded for them.
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Speaker 2
Yeah. So Sour Patch Kids, they were looking at themselves as an emerging brand in the category of the candy space and in the sour candy space, and they wanted to tell a story where they were the new kids on the block. You know, they started in the 80s versus Skittles or gummy bears. A lot of these other kind of candies in their category have been around for a long time.
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Speaker 2
So they were looking at the space and they came to us and they said, how do we play in music in an authentic way? And we I selected a pain point with emerging artists. Here's how you can be
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Speaker 2
with the emerging music scene in a great way. Is emerging artists needed a place to stay? While they're on the road, right.
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Speaker 2
They're touring, they're on the road, they're on the rise. But they're still staying in their friends,
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Speaker 2
you know, couch. Or they could be in like a white wall hotel or the band is broken up. Some of the band is close to the venue. Some of the band is staying in another state in a much cheaper hotel.
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Speaker 2
How do you make this a better experience for these these artists on these kind of first runs that are, you know, a lot of ways that's what Sour Patch Kids was.
00:15:13:13 - 00:15:35:03
Speaker 2
They were the, you know, the new brand on the block to some extent in the candy space. And so we built this campaign for them that lasted three years where we would house, we took over these different houses and these different cities, and we would house these emerging artists in these Sour Patch Kids house that were just so thoughtful.
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Speaker 2
And these beautiful brownstone in Brooklyn, this really cool house in Hollywood, this really cool place in Texas, in Austin. And essentially what we would do is have these artists, we would book them, we would find them, we would reach out to their teams, and we would have them stay in these houses, and they would be creating content and talking about the brand in this just really natural, authentic way that over time
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Speaker 2
helped Sour Patch Kids turn into
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Speaker 2
the top player in the category, the number one candy in the space.
00:16:08:09 - 00:16:29:02
Speaker 2
And it took years and it took vision. But there was all of these different press hits and all of these different social media marketing bombs that would come from these artists, and we tapped it in various other ways. For Sour Patch Kids, we had these artists doing theme songs for various things. We had them helping test out new content platforms.
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Speaker 2
It just becomes a way where a company like Sour Patch Kids can use music to take it from the emerging space and tell their story into the top of the charts or the top in their category. And then you have to create a new strategy altogether. But mission accomplished on a B2B level, it could be as simple as Salesforce during their big cloud force, you know, conference in San Francisco, everybody comes to town, but what's going to give their vendors, their clients, their company staff a really good experience, a cracker Jack performer in the middle of it.
00:17:09:20 - 00:17:34:22
Speaker 2
All right. So not only are they going to great conference meetings and dinners, but there's these kind of pinnacle moments that people are going to talk about that involves a performance or a show that really just kind of gives the takes the the event to another level. And it just might be it could be a big performer. It could be, you know, a secret show.
00:17:34:22 - 00:17:56:03
Speaker 2
But having a musical element to these events in these conferences and these, you know, company retreats, it just makes the experience that much more dynamic and, you know, sends people home with a little more pep in their step and a little bit more of an emotional connection to the experience.
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Speaker 1
Yeah. So would you say there is a
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Speaker 1
threshold in terms of like maturity or a stage of a business, maybe like a revenue threshold or whatever it might be where they can invest in like that brand and,
00:18:09:06 - 00:18:25:08
Speaker 1
you know, not need to be as a, you know, say, performance driven as a company that's earlier stage. And if so, like say with the Salesforce example, how would that say VP of marketing or that CMO kind of close the loop as they're reporting back to their executive team?
00:18:25:08 - 00:18:37:02
Speaker 1
Is it like surveys that might be filled out or some sort of like a qualitative or quantitative analysis, like how would how would you arm them to help close the loop on however they might measure the ROI?
00:18:37:06 - 00:19:04:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, and those are two questions right there. So let's break them up into one. And then the second. So in terms of emerging brand how do you know when it's time to bet on music? I think the answer there is you want to do that as early on as possible. If you think your customer is going to value that experience, we see it creating a digital mascot, finding influencers to connect with.
00:19:04:19 - 00:19:47:08
Speaker 2
When you're launching a brand, creating news, getting attention in general all require some kind of marketing splash. So yeah, it might be as simple as a theme song on your podcast. It might be as simple as creating, you know, supporting some artists as part of your overarching influencer campaign. But I highly recommend that every brand figures out what they stand for, who their customer is, and then use music, even if it's a playlist to further communicate and connect with their audience on in these different areas and these different touchpoints.
00:19:47:11 - 00:19:50:08
Speaker 2
In terms of the second question is,
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Speaker 2
what's the how do you quantify the ROI of a big event if you're marketing VP? I think it's going to come down to the SVG.
00:20:00:14 - 00:20:09:14
Speaker 2
All of the content of the people that are coming in. I think there can be a follow up email, which is great. You can ask questions if you want the survey, or
00:20:09:19 - 00:20:13:07
Speaker 2
you can use the Music Cares a playlist of the night.
00:20:13:08 - 00:20:41:00
Speaker 2
Here's pictures in a playlist of the night. Here's more from that artist. I think it becomes a branding exercise. And did it convert to people? Want to come back? Or people talking about your brand, or people sharing content about your brand and that experience? I think that's a very important telltale sign. I think you could definitely ask, did you like the show or who would you want to see next?
00:20:41:00 - 00:21:07:22
Speaker 2
Yeah, but I think really it's going to come down to are people wanting to come back where people wanting to sign up are people willing to download the app to try it, to get in? You know, I think going to a dinner or getting a swag bag or going to a conference, they're all kind of drivers. But having a musical element will just take the event to another level.
00:21:07:22 - 00:21:17:06
Speaker 2
And I think the proof will be in the pudding, in the feedback, in the social results, in the, you know, RSVP links. And,
00:21:17:10 - 00:21:20:10
Speaker 2
and we see that every single time.
00:21:20:15 - 00:21:42:05
Speaker 1
Yeah. I'm reminded of I recently got back from and meditation retreat of all things and it was, you know, Joe Dispenza retreat a week long thing. And I remember at the start of every session, multiple times per day, there would be music that would play because it's very heavy stuff, right, like the meditation and all the lectures. And so this was a way for us to get into our bodies.
00:21:42:05 - 00:22:04:15
Speaker 1
And of course they they've been doing this for five plus years. So it's a very smooth operation. But it's really interesting to see how the music just kind of brought people together. They were dancing, they're moving, they were connecting. And that was just a great way to get people back in the room and get their blood moving as they got back, you know, for the lecture or the meditation or whatever it was.
00:22:04:19 - 00:22:37:22
Speaker 2
It can change you on a physiological level to it can move some things in your mind. It can relax you, it can open you up like it complements meditation. It complements even giving human signals to to kind of bring them into the room, get them into the right mindset to be receiving the information. There's a art and a science to how music will make you buy more in a store, how music will make you eat more in a restaurant, how music will make you communicate better at an event.
00:22:38:00 - 00:22:57:22
Speaker 2
It's no question about it. It's a superpower. If operated in the right way, and it doesn't require that much except for a conscious effort and an ability to really understand how to use the tool to to drive results.
00:22:58:03 - 00:22:58:18
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:22:58:21 - 00:23:13:03
Speaker 1
I want to switch gears a bit. And now here around, you know, AI and what that means for music strategy, the music industry, you know, even like the creator economy, like how is
00:23:13:07 - 00:23:26:14
Speaker 1
AI plus music. What are those conversations like as you're speaking to CMOs who are looking to yeah, lead with sort of, you know, an AI plus like a culture, culturally, culturally relevant experience.
00:23:26:18 - 00:23:48:22
Speaker 2
Music's been at the forefront of the digital revolution since the beginning. Right. We talked a little about Napster, like that's where it all began. Yeah. And it also was if you look at the top voices in the early days of Instagram, of Twitter, of Snapchat, it was musicians that really were driving these platforms and still kind of are and a lot of different ways.
00:23:48:22 - 00:24:17:06
Speaker 2
So music continues to be the innovator, breaking down barriers. And we're seeing it again in AI. AI music is so freaking exciting. It's scary, but it's also cool. You can now write a song about this podcast through one of these AI companies, and very easily prompt based. Make something that sounds good, that has the things you want to talk about in it.
00:24:17:06 - 00:24:41:02
Speaker 2
So it's become almost like a sink engine, but it's also become a superpower for artists that can use this the same way that a strategists are using, you know, these different llms to make us more effective. It's going to help their ideas come much more to life. And then it raises the bottom. All of a sudden anybody can have a beautiful, flowing song.
00:24:41:02 - 00:25:04:20
Speaker 2
If you're a music lover, the amateur is now a musician, so it changes the landscape. It's a huge revenue driver for the industry. Ultimately, in terms of if you're a rights holder, in terms of getting more people into creating music, into leveling, you know, music's awareness. So it's a really exciting opportunity. But it's also,
00:25:04:23 - 00:25:07:10
Speaker 2
you know, changing, moving target.
00:25:07:10 - 00:25:30:13
Speaker 2
So I think we're learning about do people care about AI pop stars? We're seeing that firsthand in music, right. Like the Tilley Norwood's and the you know the AI musicians. Like is this going to work? Do people want to have an AI mascot to people want to have an AI avatar business partner? As we get more and more,
00:25:30:14 - 00:25:32:12
Speaker 2
I think we're going to see how,
00:25:32:15 - 00:25:37:05
Speaker 2
you know, again, musicians are the Sherpas of culture.
00:25:37:05 - 00:26:07:05
Speaker 2
They want to shift it. They want to try new things. They're really like big believers and the never been done before mentality. That's really an exciting driver when it comes to artists. And artists are just they've got their own tribes, they've got their own creative forces. They're thinking freely so they can give us so much Intel on how to use the tools, what brands or what companies make sense in their zeit geist of how to break the trends.
00:26:07:05 - 00:26:16:18
Speaker 2
Like, I always love working with creatives because they just are a wealth of information in terms of what's cool.
00:26:16:22 - 00:26:18:16
Speaker 2
What's going to shift culture.
00:26:18:19 - 00:26:20:06
Speaker 2
Oh love it.
00:26:20:09 - 00:26:37:09
Speaker 2
Yeah. So it's a great experience to to work with them. And I think look AI is again this. This big opportunity for music. And I think we're seeing music and musicians in so many ways at the forefront of, of this next evolution.
00:26:37:11 - 00:26:55:12
Speaker 1
Yeah, really looking forward to seeing how things unfold. I mean, if there's any indication of how things are, how fast things are moving, right, with AI, just kind of sweeping knowledge work and so many industries, it'll be incredible to see once it's in the hands of musicians and creators, how they can
00:26:55:16 - 00:26:58:22
Speaker 1
amplify their own gifts and abilities through this technology.
00:26:58:22 - 00:27:02:21
Speaker 1
So very cool. Well, just, you know, as we as we wrap it up here,
00:27:03:02 - 00:27:16:20
Speaker 1
is there a parting message that you might want to listen or have to impart to our audience? Many folks are, you know, brand builders, CMOs as well as founders. What's a message you might have for them.
00:27:17:00 - 00:27:45:17
Speaker 2
If you love music, if you're consumers, love music, if your constituents and colleagues love music, it's a differentiator in your marketing campaign. And you might not necessarily know how to do that. But there are resources. I write a newsletter every single week that talks about the intersection of music and brands, and it's kind of my love letter to the music business and to the brand marketers out there that are interested.
00:27:45:17 - 00:28:08:16
Speaker 2
And I aggregate stories. I tell you what's happening in culture. And then if you want to go deeper and figure out where your brand should be playing in music, I'm happy to brainstorm and I've got a bunch of ideas, and I think we can dive deeper when it's time to build a more robust strategy. And we can start small and go big.
00:28:08:18 - 00:28:34:20
Speaker 2
But definitely, no matter how you're thinking about it, if it's a playlist or if it's a performer or if it's a campaign, music will impact your project and your product. And I just want more and more brands to be incorporating a music strategy ultimately in some capacity in how they're approaching their marketing.
00:28:34:23 - 00:28:37:22
Speaker 1
I love it. Well, make sure to link the
00:28:38:03 - 00:28:43:18
Speaker 1
agency website in the show notes as well as your LinkedIn. Is there anywhere else you might want to direct folks who want to learn more?
00:28:43:21 - 00:29:15:15
Speaker 2
Yeah, my newsletter is Beats and Bites and it comes every single week. It's syndicated by spin magazine and Celebrity Access and AOL and Yahoo! And it's on LinkedIn as well. But it's a great place to get a weekly digest of what's happening in this space. I put a lot of time and love into it, and I think it'll give you enough of an awareness about what I'm doing on a weekly basis, but also where the industry is going, so you can formulate your process and ideas.
00:29:15:20 - 00:29:33:10
Speaker 2
Amazing. Well, Jesse, thank you so much for joining the show and sharing your insights and look forward to having you on for round two. Have a great one. My pleasure. Yeah. Next time we'll dive into some more campaigns and we can talk about some of the new innovations in the space. But thanks so much for having me. It's a great concept.
00:29:33:11 - 00:29:40:09
Speaker 2
Great campaign, and thanks for all the good work you're doing on LinkedIn and beyond. Thank you. Have a good one.