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Lounge Lizards is a weekly premium cigar podcast covering Cuban and non-Cuban cigars, cigar reviews, cigar news, Habanos, spirits pairings, cigar culture, and the business of the premium cigar industry.
Hosted by Gizmo with Rooster, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Bam Bam and the rest of the Lizards, the show combines long-form cigar discussion with honest reviews, industry news, history, travel, spirits, collecting, and conversations with the people shaping the cigar world.
Each episode typically centers around a featured cigar and spirits pairing, with regular coverage of brands including Padrón, Davidoff, Arturo Fuente, Cohiba, Montecristo, Tatuaje, Foundation and more.
Lounge Lizards isn’t a traditional cigar review show. It’s a group of friends sitting around the table, smoking cigars, sharing opinions, telling stories and trying to make sense of the culture and industry around them.
New episodes are released every Tuesday.
Join Lizard Nation and become a card-carrying Lounge Lizard yourself. Email hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and potentially be featured on an upcoming episode.
[00:00:00] Gizmo: Welcome to the Lounge Lizards Podcast presented by Fabrica 5. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight, I'm joined by Rooster, Senator, Chef Ricky, and Bam Bam.
[00:00:18] Gizmo: And our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some bourbon, talk about life, and, of course, have some laughs. So take this as your two hundred and fifty-ninth official invitation to join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard. We plan to meet here once a week. We're gonna smoke a Honduran cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you a formal lizard rating. We debate if Napa Valley has a dire warning for premium cigars.
[00:00:38] Gizmo: We share nicotine strength recommendations for new smokers, and we discuss cigars appearing more often in pop culture, all among a variety of other things for the next two hours. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, and enjoy as we pair ten-year-old Basil Hayden's Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey with the Plasencia Cosecha 151 in La Tradición. A Toro extra on the pod tonight, boys, from Plasencia, and it's a Honduran puro. It's called the Cosecha 151 in La Tradición, and it's a 54-ring-gauge cigar by five and seven eighths inches long. And boys, this feels like a brick in my hand.
[00:01:18] Bam Bam: Yes. It does.
[00:01:19] Gizmo: It feels like there's a lot of tobacco in here. Mm-hmm.
[00:01:23] Bam Bam: Pretty good looking.
[00:01:24] Gizmo: Super filled, but it's a nice looking cigar.
[00:01:26] Rooster: It's gonna be a three-hour episode. It might be.
[00:01:28] Gizmo: But you know, we've been surprised with that. Some of these shorter cigars last and some of these bigger ones don't, so... Or with
[00:01:33] Senator: a Plasencia, it could be a three-minute episode.
[00:01:35] Gizmo: It could be. We might be into our five-year episode next week in about ten minutes. Just lost another sponsor. Alright, boys. Let's cut this thing.
[00:01:45] Gizmo: See what we're getting on the cold draw and the wrapper. Bam was upset that I didn't use the term double Toro.
[00:01:52] Bam Bam: That's correct.
[00:01:52] Gizmo: Which OG listeners will remember from very early episodes. Mm-hmm. So, Bam, when you took the cigar out of the cellophane, you were admiring its aroma.
[00:02:03] Bam Bam: Delicious aroma.
[00:02:05] Gizmo: Cold draw is very nice.
[00:02:07] Bam Bam: Pretty cocoa-like on the nose.
[00:02:09] Senator: There's a lot of cedar though.
[00:02:12] Bam Bam: I get cedar on the foot. I got
[00:02:14] Senator: cold draw too.
[00:02:15] Bam Bam: I haven't. Cedar pretty much that's it for me.
[00:02:24] Chef Ricky: No cocoa here or sweetness. The wrapper though, a little bit of cocoa. On the nose, the aroma. This is going to be a shit cigar.
[00:02:32] Gizmo: Let's go. All right, boys. Let's light this thing. The Plasencia Cosecha 151 in La Tradición.
[00:02:43] Bam Bam: This is the final shot that Plasencia has on our podcast
[00:02:45] Gizmo: Yeah, they're zero for two so far.
[00:02:47] Bam Bam: Yep. Three strikes and
[00:02:48] Chef Ricky: you're out. Three strikes and you're out.
[00:02:49] Gizmo: Again, this is a 54
[00:02:50] Senator: ring gauge cigar. Not if your name's Aaron Boone. By five and seven eighths inches long,
[00:02:55] Gizmo: we're gonna continue that Yankees commentary. I like the flavor on the light. It's nice. There's a little bit of a...
[00:03:07] Bam Bam: It's an unusual sweetness. I can't...
[00:03:08] Gizmo: Yeah. It's almost like a tangy sweetness. Almost like what you get on a sweet tart or something. Little pepper, though.
[00:03:20] Chef Ricky: It's sweet the way... I equate it to, like, a sweet coffee bean. Right? Like, if you're you're drinking a pour-over, and there's a coffee that's leaning a little sweet, but there's still some bitterness, that's kind of what I'm getting of this cigar right now.
[00:03:33] Bam Bam: You know, for me it's completely different. Have you ever had a coffee with that lavender flavor that they put in? That's kind of what I'm getting.
[00:03:42] Chef Ricky: I drink real coffee, Bam.
[00:03:44] Bam Bam: I know, but it's very floral that way. I've tried that once because I was curious.
[00:03:49] Gizmo: Why would you put I have
[00:03:50] Bam Bam: no idea. They make these
[00:03:51] Gizmo: Why would you put lavender in a coffee?
[00:03:54] Senator: There's an entire place
[00:03:56] Bam Bam: A whole category.
[00:03:57] Senator: Charleston that's like this famous coffee shop for this. Again, this is not something I would order. Mm-hmm. Obviously, someone else would order, so there are a lot of
[00:04:05] Chef Ricky: women that
[00:04:05] Gizmo: love... Well, honestly, it's honestly shocking. I love that I knew you weren't talking about him, but he thought you were talking about him.
[00:04:12] Senator: That's correct. But the funny thing is I would have expected that Mrs. Bam was the one who ordered it. You tried it. That's how I tried it.
[00:04:17] Senator: I would not have ordered it.
[00:04:18] Bam Bam: No, I was curious about it. It's at a coffee shop. Okay. Let me have one.
[00:04:21] Chef Ricky: I've I've done it in matcha. I've done it
[00:04:23] Bam Bam: in matcha. Yeah.
[00:04:24] Chef Ricky: Yeah. Same. Never coffee.
[00:04:25] Gizmo: Lavender is just not a flavor or scent that I'm interested in. It's kinda like...
[00:04:29] Senator: Same, hate lavender.
[00:04:30] Gizmo: It's just that when I have lavender soap on my hands, I don't like how it smells. I prefer lemon.
[00:04:34] Chef Ricky: I was the same way and I think it's one of those things that grows on you as you get older.
[00:04:39] Gizmo: Oh, I
[00:04:40] Chef Ricky: don't know.
[00:04:40] Gizmo: How much older are you than me? I'm 45. How old
[00:04:43] Chef Ricky: are you? I'm 46. I don't even know.
[00:04:44] Gizmo: Look good for 45. I'm a man. I'm 40.
[00:04:47] Senator: You look good for 45.
[00:04:50] Chef Ricky: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:04:51] Gizmo: Got a bunch of old boys on that couch over
[00:04:53] Bam Bam: there. Correct.
[00:04:55] Chef Ricky: I used to have a social studies teacher in junior high school who I think was getting hammered throughout the day.
[00:05:02] Gizmo: Oh, he was drinking?
[00:05:03] Chef Ricky: Yeah. He would cover it up with Oh. I thought
[00:05:07] Gizmo: this was a different No. No.
[00:05:09] Bam Bam: No. I kinda did too.
[00:05:12] Rooster: Camping? Camping?
[00:05:12] Gizmo: No. No. No. That was
[00:05:13] Chef Ricky: high school. I'm talking about junior high school. Okay. He used to cover it up with the violet candy. Forgot what it's called.
[00:05:21] Chef Ricky: Yeah. But he'd be chomping on those all all day long.
[00:05:25] Bam Bam: Wow. That's sad. Yeah. It's not good.
[00:05:29] Gizmo: So what do you guys think on the cigar on the light here? I think
[00:05:32] Senator: it's I'm pretty confused. I'm not I'm not sure yet.
[00:05:35] Chef Ricky: Right right now, it's smoking a little boring for me. I'm not getting a like a broad or depth of flavor. It kind of feels a little bit like smoking a cigarette. It's hard
[00:05:47] Rooster: to pick out a distinct note right now.
[00:05:50] Senator: That's why I'm confused. This sweetness is odd, and you almost mentioned it was like Sweet Tarts or Smarties. It's making my mouth warm. This weird tartness about it. I'm not loving what I'm getting, but I'm not to the point that I wanna write off this cigar.
[00:06:06] Senator: I'm just trying to still figure this thing out.
[00:06:08] Bam Bam: Anyone anyone getting pepper?
[00:06:10] Gizmo: A little bit. Just a touch. Yeah.
[00:06:12] Rooster: Very little hint.
[00:06:13] Bam Bam: A little white pepper.
[00:06:14] Gizmo: A little white pepper.
[00:06:15] Chef Ricky: I'm just not getting any sweetness that I'm used to finding in Honduran tobacco.
[00:06:24] Gizmo: And what I found interesting about this, we'll talk about the cigar, but they listed this cigar as a strong cigar.
[00:06:29] Rooster: How do you know this is Honduran? As I said, it was a
[00:06:32] Gizmo: Honduran puro. Uh-huh.
[00:06:33] Bam Bam: Oh, boy.
[00:06:35] Chef Ricky: Somebody hit rewind.
[00:06:40] Bam Bam: Did we say how much this cigar was?
[00:06:42] Gizmo: We did not, Bam. So the MSRP on it is $16. We got them for $14.79 Okay.
[00:06:49] Bam Bam: It's a substantial cigar. I think the $16 is worth it if it finishes strong.
[00:06:54] Gizmo: I think... Yeah. There's certainly a lot of tobacco in here.
[00:06:56] Chef Ricky: Yeah. There
[00:06:57] Gizmo: is. So the Plasencia Cosecha 151 came out at the end of twenty twenty three, and this cigar celebrates the one hundred and fifty first crop of tobacco planted by the Plasencia family. So obviously, Cosecha means harvest. So this is harvest 151. It uses Honduran tobacco from the 2016 harvest. So that's ten years ago.
[00:07:24] Gizmo: So I don't know right now if they're using ten-year-old tobacco or if that's just progressing year by year as this is a regular production cigar. I'm obviously looking at this info from halfwheel from when it first came out because there really wasn't much on the Plasencia website about the cigar that I found interesting. So I went to I went to halfwheel. The company says the wrapper is similar to the one used on the Cosecha 149 line though, of course, it's from a different harvest. So initially these cigars were offered in three sizes.
[00:07:55] Gizmo: La Música 50 by five Robusto, the San Diego 46 by five and three quarters and the La Tradición and the one we have in our hand. The biggest of the three that were initially released 54 by five and seven-eighths inches. So they started showing these off. I don't know if they showed them off at PCA twenty twenty three or if they came out later that year, but around the holidays is when they were these were available three years ago.
[00:08:20] Senator: I'll just say it's it's starting to take a turn for the better.
[00:08:24] Chef Ricky: Sweetening up a little bit.
[00:08:26] Senator: Yes. I'm getting more sweetness and more nuttiness now, like flavors that are making sense to me. So I'm starting to enjoy it.
[00:08:36] Chef Ricky: And that's it. Initial draw on the flavor that was wasn't making any sense. Yeah. You were saying it was making your mouth water Giz. For me, it was a little drying.
[00:08:44] Chef Ricky: There was like it was a very muted flavor, felt like generic tobacco. And now it's starting to pick up a little bit.
[00:08:52] Gizmo: There was a moment where reminded me when I was sitting with Klaas Kelner and Pagoda in Klaas's office smoking puritos, and one was the San Vicente tobacco, and it's like a very acidic tobacco that Klaas kinda said is like a fixer. You know, when your blend isn't right, throw that in and it kinda fixes a lot So it's palate cleanser. It's a way a lot of people use that tobacco, but it kind of reminded me of that. Obviously, don't think it's San Vicente unless they're growing that in Honduras. Yeah, I don't know right now what the cigar is trying to be.
[00:09:24] Chef Ricky: There's still a richness that I want that I'm not getting like it's getting sweeter, but it's not very rich.
[00:09:32] Gizmo: So about a year later, in late 2024, they launched a Salomon in this line, which was a TAA exclusive, 54 by six inches long. I guess the same blend as this. Again, they're saying that this is close to full-bodied. Plasencia is saying that.
[00:09:53] Rooster: Not so far.
[00:09:54] Gizmo: Which even just that in Honduran tobacco, I'm surprised. You know? Because like, even if you think about Fabrica 5 uses some Nicaraguan tobacco in those cigars. And they're not, you know, they're they're no milder than this.
[00:10:06] Chef Ricky: Right. Yep.
[00:10:08] Gizmo: So that cigar, the Salomon was priced at $19.50 and all of these come in boxes of
[00:10:17] Chef Ricky: 10.
[00:10:18] Bam Bam: The box presentation is beautiful.
[00:10:20] Chef Ricky: You like it? I do.
[00:10:21] Gizmo: I thought it was pretty simple.
[00:10:22] Bam Bam: I like it. I like the simplicity. It's clean. Sorry. Where's the box?
[00:10:26] Bam Bam: Crisp black finish. Easy.
[00:10:29] Gizmo: I'm gonna do my best Vanna White for you, Senator. So it's pop top
[00:10:33] Senator: lid. Kinda reminds me of the Bond Roberts.
[00:10:35] Rooster: Bond Roberts. I was just gonna say that. Yeah. And then it has the...
[00:10:38] Gizmo: It's a nice box. Yeah.
[00:10:39] Senator: I'm with them.
[00:10:40] Rooster: Very nice. Nice black and gold.
[00:10:42] Gizmo: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I was gonna say, you know, the Powstanie last week, you were very critical of the bands. You didn't even mention them tonight. I actually like what they're doing here.
[00:10:49] Bam Bam: I do too.
[00:10:50] Senator: Yes. I think the band looks nice.
[00:10:51] Rooster: I think it's classy. They have a foot
[00:10:53] Gizmo: band on it, by the way, that says Cosecha Privada.
[00:10:56] Bam Bam: Mm-hmm.
[00:10:56] Senator: Yeah. That part's unnecessary, but the rest is good.
[00:10:59] Bam Bam: Yeah. Straightforward is always the way to go. Clean, crisp, simple lines, which is what they're doing here.
[00:11:05] Gizmo: And by the way, it's highlighted on the front of the box here. This cigar was the top new cigar of the year for Cigar Journal in 2024. So, obviously, that was the original run of these.
[00:11:18] Bam Bam: Rooster, what again?
[00:11:19] Rooster: It's hard to pick out notes still. Like you mentioned earlier, Cedar, I'm getting, like, maybe some coffee.
[00:11:27] Gizmo: That's I
[00:11:27] Bam Bam: wish I was getting coffee.
[00:11:29] Chef Ricky: Yeah. I get...
[00:11:30] Rooster: I think that's, like, the kind of note. And may... Maybe a little, like, a grassy note.
[00:11:36] Gizmo: There's definitely a grassy note. Right? But not like a... We used grassy in the past like a Cohiba Cuba thing. It's more like an earthy...
[00:11:46] Gizmo: Almost like chewing on... Like, if you were to chew on grass or something like that kind
[00:11:50] Rooster: of flavor. You never done that? You chewed on grass?
[00:11:55] Bam Bam: Soy ball?
[00:11:58] Gizmo: I will say this cigar right now for me is probably one of the closer cigars in its flavor on the palate to the cold draw. I actually think they're tied more here than they usually are on most cigars.
[00:12:14] Senator: I'm just going to say I'm actually liking what I'm getting right now.
[00:12:18] Gizmo: Me
[00:12:19] Senator: too. And I'm shocked, but it's good. Mm-hmm.
[00:12:22] Rooster: Not there yet. Mm-hmm.
[00:12:24] Senator: Me, the sweetness is really dialed right.
[00:12:26] Gizmo: It's ramping up.
[00:12:27] Senator: Yeah. In a great way.
[00:12:29] Bam Bam: Am not anywhere near that. You know? Again. Yeah. Yet again, I've been bamboozled.
[00:12:35] Bam Bam: Hoodwinked.
[00:12:36] Rooster: You've been hoodwinked again.
[00:12:39] Gizmo: Two weeks in a row.
[00:12:40] Senator: There might be something off with Bam's sweet receptors. This is two cigars now. He's not picking up any sweetness. Could be.
[00:12:45] Gizmo: Or maybe we're just giving him the bad cigars every week.
[00:12:47] Rooster: It is. Still But rates it at 10.
[00:12:50] Bam Bam: I did enjoy that
[00:12:51] Gizmo: last night.
[00:12:51] Chef Ricky: You are putting water in the Naväge. Right? Yeah.
[00:12:54] Gizmo: What are you putting in the Naväge?
[00:12:56] Bam Bam: A little vodka. It's clear.
[00:13:00] Gizmo: I don't know, man. I like it. How about you, Senator?
[00:13:02] Chef Ricky: I think it needs to heat up a little bit. I think there's so much tobacco in here. Like you got to get it all lit to really get the flavors that we're getting. It is lit.
[00:13:17] Rooster: I mean, we're all in exactly the same point right now, but we're getting different. You're getting a lot of sweetness, Giz is getting sweetness, me and Bam are not getting any sweetness.
[00:13:29] Bam Bam: I'm getting just a touch of it. It's more of like a sweeter floral thing for me right now.
[00:13:34] Senator: The other thing I'm enjoying right now is it's getting creamier. I felt like it was thin and a bit dry to start, the smoke, and now it's creamy and
[00:13:43] Bam Bam: I don't get a
[00:13:44] Gizmo: lot of body. You know what I'm getting on the front of my tongue? Those Werther's Originals that my grandfather used to carry around. They're like a butterscotch. Werther's Originals? Yes.
[00:13:53] Gizmo: Werther's Originals right on the front.
[00:13:55] Bam Bam: Come on chef.
[00:13:56] Chef Ricky: I love those. I wouldn't say this is there. Just see if you get there. No, I think it's like a bootleg Werther's Originals. Like the generic butterscotch candy versus
[00:14:07] Bam Bam: That is quite the statement. Agreed.
[00:14:09] Gizmo: Yeah. I'm not saying it's a butterscotch candy,
[00:14:11] Rooster: but you're getting that much sweetness out
[00:14:13] Senator: of this. Werther's Originals are amazing.
[00:14:17] Bam Bam: That's amazing.
[00:14:20] Senator: Giz, can you come prepared to hand out some Werther's Originals?
[00:14:25] Gizmo: Maybe the ones that I had were like really tame in flavor because they were in my grandfather's pocket for...
[00:14:32] Senator: right next to right next to Bam's handkerchief. Correct.
[00:14:36] Gizmo: He is the only guy other than Bam that I know that carried a handkerchief every day.
[00:14:41] Bam Bam: I can actually use one right now.
[00:14:43] Gizmo: Don't you have one? No.
[00:14:45] Rooster: Do you
[00:14:45] Gizmo: have your hairspray?
[00:14:46] Bam Bam: No. Do you
[00:14:47] Gizmo: have your comb?
[00:14:48] Bam Bam: I don't use a comb.
[00:14:49] Chef Ricky: Really? No. How do you do that?
[00:14:51] Bam Bam: My hands. Wow. And pomade. And a touch of spray. Just at the end.
[00:14:59] Rooster: Oh, la la.
[00:15:00] Bam Bam: Now you're making me fix my hair.
[00:15:02] Gizmo: Alright, boys. Let's go to a couple housekeeping things I wanna talk about really quick. Number one, next week is our five-year anniversary episode. Of course, by the time you hear this, we probably will have already recorded it. We do our recordings about ten days before you hear the episode.
[00:15:20] Gizmo: But with our five-year celebration, we have a brand new newsletter that's going to be coming out once a month. So go to loungelizardspod.com right now. Sign up at the bottom of the page for our newsletter. And what's great is number one, it's going to be informative and educational. There'll be some new stuff from us.
[00:15:39] Gizmo: There'll be some summaries of some cool stuff if you missed an episode. And every single month, one of those subscribers is gonna win a killer package of free stuff.
[00:15:50] Chef Ricky: Did I miss a meeting?
[00:15:52] Gizmo: No, I just didn't.
[00:15:53] Chef Ricky: Oh, okay.
[00:15:54] Bam Bam: Will each No one else looks surprised. A writer's corner type thing?
[00:16:00] Gizmo: If you want. The likelihood of that happening on any sort of regular
[00:16:03] Bam Bam: It's zero to nil.
[00:16:05] Gizmo: Zero to none. So I'm just gonna go with that's not happening. We would, by the way, welcome contributions for the newsletter from Lizard Nation. But the first one, you can still win the first one. So what I'm gonna do as an example, first one went out October 21.
[00:16:23] Gizmo: You have until November 20 to sign up for that mailing list. On that date, we're going to randomly draw someone who has registered for our email list, and they're gonna win an awesome $500 package of stuff from Drew Estate, Fabrica 5, and Small Batch Cigar. Wow. So let me tell you exactly what you're getting. Remember those crazy knives I brought in here?
[00:16:45] Bam Bam: I was about to say.
[00:16:46] Gizmo: From Drew Estate? Mm-hmm. Those things are worth like $250, $300. Yeah. Brilliant, really nice knives.
[00:16:51] Gizmo: The real big one. Huge.
[00:16:53] Chef Ricky: Mm-hmm. Can we split that [unclear]?
[00:16:55] Gizmo: Huge. You're gonna get a 10-count bundle of Fabrica 5 Robusto Trinities, and you're gonna get a $100 gift card to smallbatchcigar.com.
[00:17:07] Rooster: We will?
[00:17:08] Gizmo: No, you won't. You're not eligible.
[00:17:10] Bam Bam: You're out.
[00:17:10] Gizmo: You and Pagoda are not eligible.
[00:17:12] Bam Bam: That's fantastic. So
[00:17:14] Gizmo: quite literally, all you have to do is sign up. That's it. If you're signed up, you're you're already registered.
[00:17:19] Bam Bam: That's great.
[00:17:19] Gizmo: I'd appreciate. We'd appreciate if you actually read the emails when they come in, but you are. That's all you have to do. There's no action, no purchase, none of that stuff necessary. Somebody's gonna win every month.
[00:17:28] Gizmo: So, for example, if you're signed up by November 20, you can win that drawing. That email will go out. Then we'll draw another one right before Christmas, December 21, and on and on and on. So that's going to continue each and every month. So definitely sign up for that and look out for that.
[00:17:44] Chef Ricky: And the newsletter was weekly
[00:17:45] Gizmo: or monthly.
[00:17:47] Bam Bam: Oh, you're a good listener.
[00:17:48] Senator: Is this a Honduran puro? It's the fucking couch, right?
[00:17:51] Gizmo: I don't know what goes on over there.
[00:17:52] Chef Ricky: This thing absorbs memory
[00:17:54] Gizmo: Once a month.
[00:17:56] Chef Ricky: Once a month. Okay.
[00:17:57] Rooster: So it's not gonna be monthly or it's not gonna be weekly?
[00:18:02] Bam Bam: Sign
[00:18:04] Gizmo: up right now at loungelizardspod.com.
[00:18:08] Chef Ricky: And then when you sign up, make sure we're not going to spam.
[00:18:11] Gizmo: Yeah. You don't want us to go to spam. And please tell your friends. Like I said, it's free to enter and free to
[00:18:18] Chef Ricky: Can't wait to see these.
[00:18:20] Gizmo: So, boys, let's do a little news now before we go to our pairing. First up here, we'll start with this one because we didn't know about this.
[00:18:29] Rooster: Any Cuban news?
[00:18:30] Gizmo: No Cuban news. I put that aside this week. After the chastising I got last week for two hours, two hours of Cuban news. West Tampa Tobacco is shipping. I didn't even see this.
[00:18:43] Gizmo: The Chef Rick.
[00:18:45] Chef Ricky: No. Guys, I have it in house.
[00:18:49] Gizmo: I'm a little upset. Look at this.
[00:18:50] Rooster: I'm a
[00:18:51] Gizmo: little upset that here we are showing up every week and you have a cigar coming out with the West Tampa Tobacco Company.
[00:18:58] Bam Bam: Will it rival the Knuckle Sandwich?
[00:19:00] Chef Ricky: You know it's not me because this has
[00:19:01] Gizmo: Are you gonna dye your... The tips of your hair
[00:19:04] Chef Ricky: platinum blonde? You know, I've always wanted to do that, but that ship has sailed.
[00:19:08] Bam Bam: Could dye the top
[00:19:10] Gizmo: Topknot. You could dye the topknot.
[00:19:12] Bam Bam: That's a good point, man. Just the knot. You can dye it.
[00:19:15] Chef Ricky: Look like a big light bulb. Yeah. Yeah. No. You know that's not me because it's Chef Rick.
[00:19:22] Gizmo: Correct. It is a 52 ring gauge Toro by six inches long. Habano 2000 wrapper on it from an undisclosed country. Ricky, you should have done better. Over an Ecuadorian Sumatra-seed binder and
[00:19:34] Chef Ricky: Puerto Rico.
[00:19:35] Gizmo: From Condega, Estelí, Jalapa, and Ometepe, the regions in Nicaragua.
[00:19:40] Bam Bam: I won't smoke that cigar out of principle. Why does it need to be undisclosed? Give me a break.
[00:19:47] Gizmo: Each cigar has an MSRP, Bam, of $12.99. So again, I didn't read this earlier. I don't know how I missed it, but
[00:19:54] Senator: No. But we have
[00:19:56] Bam Bam: It's aggravating.
[00:19:57] Senator: That are undisclosed. That's true.
[00:19:59] Bam Bam: We even have one ourselves. The Stoic, right? That's...
[00:20:02] Gizmo: Well, that's only one country's... And undisclosed. Just like this. Yeah. This is only one country.
[00:20:06] Senator: Yeah. Yeah. I can live with that. I just... I think we've seen literal Davidoff blends where the entirety of it is undisclosed.
[00:20:13] Senator: Of That
[00:20:13] Chef Ricky: to me
[00:20:13] Senator: is insane.
[00:20:13] Bam Bam: They're made in Newark.
[00:20:15] Chef Ricky: You know, I'm starting to feel like the undisclosed is China.
[00:20:18] Bam Bam: Oh, boy. Who knows, man?
[00:20:20] Gizmo: So here's another one for you, boys. This one's from Perdomo. The legacy that we liked so much. The entire line is getting three new vitolas. They're getting the Perdomo legacy Belicoso Fino 54 by five, the Gran Corona 48 by six, and the short Robusto 54 by four and a quarter.
[00:20:38] Gizmo: That is added to the other nine cigars that are available. Short Robusto, Belicoso Fino, Robusto, Epicure, Father and Son, Gordo, Gran Corona, Gran Belicoso and Churchill. That's the entire line. So they added three. Now there's 11.
[00:20:53] Gizmo: So they're gonna release these cigars in 11 count samplers, which I found interesting.
[00:20:58] Bam Bam: By way of.
[00:21:00] Gizmo: That will be offered in three wrapper options that they already introduced. Obviously, the one that we loved was the Nicaraguan Sungrown. We smoked the Legacy in Epicure from the Nicaraguan Sungrown line. They also have a Maduro and a Connecticut. Each of them is gonna have their own sampler.
[00:21:17] Gizmo: So what I found interesting about this is if you want these three vitolas, you gotta buy it in a sampler, which is Oh, just a new trend,
[00:21:24] Bam Bam: like Yeah. Buy nine shit cigars, you get one good one.
[00:21:27] Gizmo: Well, I think the thing about this is you're getting all the same cigar. You're not having to buy stuff that you don't want. But it's interesting. You can't just go buy these three new vitolas as a pack of five or, you know, a box of 20 or whatever it is. So the sampler regardless of blend has an MSRP of a $150.
[00:21:47] Gizmo: So little under $15 a cigar like $13, $14 a cigar. So I thought that was interesting simply because the Belicoso Fino size in that legacy, I think that would be a pretty cool cigar. Yeah. Because I'm I'm really loving the Epicure still. I'm still smoking those a couple times a week.
[00:22:05] Gizmo: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:05] Senator: I do, but I think I would prefer that in a different vitola. That Bella sounds great. I don't know what it is. For some reason, like the... I'm getting used to a lot of the box press Toros, like the Aging Room stuff that we've been smoking.
[00:22:19] Rooster: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:20] Senator: And for some reason, it just... It feels better in the hand. It, like, performs more evenly. So I would love to try some of the new ones.
[00:22:28] Gizmo: So those will be coming out. Probably could find them at your local retailer in the next few weeks. Guys, do you remember when we talked about the League of Fat Bastards? Yeah. Let me remind you.
[00:22:45] Gizmo: This... The League of Fat Bastards is an organization that announced that they were doing a fundraising round at a valuation of $65,000,000. Do you remember this?
[00:22:55] Bam Bam: Yes.
[00:22:56] Gizmo: And they were raising $1,235,000 of capital at a $65,000,000 valuation. And then they had a chart on their website with the path to $300,000,000, which they're going to get to in the next five years. And then what we found interesting is, with all that being said, they said that they donate 40% of the company's profits to charities.
[00:23:19] Bam Bam: And so far, they've raised about $60,000
[00:23:22] Gizmo: What's interesting about you saying that, Bam, is
[00:23:25] Bam Bam: I'm guessing.
[00:23:26] Gizmo: The owner of League of Fat Bastards has put it up for sale. Shocker. Just six months later. So in September, Ferdinand Piet, who oversaw the company's international sales, announced he had left the company. A week later, a U.S.-based sales representative began informing retailers that he was no longer at the company because the league had paused operations as it evaluated its long-term strategy.
[00:23:55] Gizmo: So now you can purchase, Bam, I know you're looking for things to invest in, the League of Fat Bastards Social Impact Cigar brand, which they're saying that they have gotten to global revenues of over $550,000. So it's an interesting organization. They have nonalcoholic beer. Of course, they have cigars. They donate the money to charity.
[00:24:21] Bam Bam: Do they have an independent auditing team auditing all these claims?
[00:24:27] Gizmo: You know, I'll follow up.
[00:24:28] Senator: Sure. Let's get Pagoda on that.
[00:24:30] Gizmo: So the company launched in March 2024 with the mission of using cigars to start conversations about men's mental health, something that Adam Levine has said that he has struggled with in his life. And unfortunately, now the League of Fat Bastards is up for sale and I believe it has stopped operating. So unfortunate news there. And like we said then, I think, you know, when you come out with these big numbers and these big claims and, you know, 40% to charity, you're really putting yourself in a spotlight. You know, a real, real difficult situation.
[00:25:03] Bam Bam: I've got to say something.
[00:25:04] Gizmo: Go ahead.
[00:25:05] Bam Bam: I'm looking at everyone's ash in this room. They're perfect. This looks like a pretzel. Look how wonky that is. It is still...
[00:25:15] Bam Bam: Actually, the smoke is getting better for me.
[00:25:16] Rooster: It could be user error.
[00:25:18] Gizmo: It definitely is user error.
[00:25:19] Bam Bam: I don't know. I've had to correct this three times already. Not burning well.
[00:25:22] Chef Ricky: You're using S.T. Dupont fuel in that thing?
[00:25:24] Bam Bam: I don't know.
[00:25:26] Rooster: You had to relight the cigar?
[00:25:28] Bam Bam: No, touch-up as I'm going through. Redirect it.
[00:25:31] Rooster: I think the construction is pretty good on the cigar.
[00:25:33] Chef Ricky: Yeah, agree. You know what? It looks good
[00:25:35] Gizmo: from here. If you look at the ash too, you can see it's like really maintained its structure. You can almost see the leaves in the ash, which is pretty nice.
[00:25:46] Chef Ricky: You know, Giz, I'm getting now that sort of SweeTARTS sweetness that you're talking about. I think it's because it's presenting some of the sweet notes we enjoy without the richness. It feels like a sort of empty sweetness for me.
[00:26:01] Bam Bam: You think it's a light cigar? Yeah. Light in body.
[00:26:03] Chef Ricky: Yes. They
[00:26:04] Gizmo: say it's full. I don't get it.
[00:26:06] Bam Bam: And how do you find the smoke? Is there a velvety character to
[00:26:10] Chef Ricky: The smoke is drying.
[00:26:13] Rooster: Mouth feel But is
[00:26:16] Bam Bam: I'm actually getting, don't laugh at this. The finish of...
[00:26:20] Rooster: I wish I
[00:26:21] Gizmo: had a drum roll.
[00:26:22] Chef Ricky: [Unclear.] A Necco wafer.
[00:26:24] Bam Bam: No, no. I was getting floral before, but it's actually evolving to kind of a maple thing for me.
[00:26:30] Gizmo: A little bit
[00:26:30] Bam Bam: of maple, floral and a touch of white pepper for me. That's what I'm getting right now. No coffee, no chocolate, none of that. I like it. Yes, it's drying but that's what you have your drink for.
[00:26:41] Gizmo: I like the smoke. I think it's interesting. I actually think it's balanced which you said you didn't feel it was balanced before. I don't know where you're at now with it. It's working.
[00:26:51] Rooster: It's a bit boring for me. It's just too long of a cigar, too big of a ring gauge if the flavor doesn't change. If it stays like this, I think the rating will reflect that.
[00:27:05] Bam Bam: So is this cigar for you all doing better than the previous two Plasencias that we've had so far?
[00:27:10] Chef Ricky: Absolutely. Yes.
[00:27:11] Bam Bam: I agree with that.
[00:27:12] Gizmo: Yes. What's interesting about this is I think that the flavor is kind of... It's well rounded and balanced. It's just not terribly exciting. We talk about those notes that pop in...
[00:27:25] Gizmo: The notes are not punchy.
[00:27:26] Rooster: They're not distinct. They're all
[00:27:28] Gizmo: kind of dull.
[00:27:29] Rooster: Yeah. The aroma is nice on the foot.
[00:27:33] Gizmo: Yeah. Alright, boys. One more news story for you. Casa Carrillo is releasing the Battleborn 2026, the second year of it, in a new size and a new blend. So the Battleborn is a project inspired by Lionel H. McKoy.
[00:27:52] Gizmo: And since 2017, McKoy has been the shipping manager at Casa Carrillo and boasts an impressive background as a U.S. Navy veteran having served for two decades as a petty officer second class. Throughout his military career, he served on several aircraft carriers including the USS Midway, the Forrestal, and the Dwight D. Eisenhower. He participated in major operations during the Gulf War in Operation Desert Storm. It's pretty cool. So I'm getting all this information from Cigar Coop.
[00:28:22] Gizmo: Shout out Coop. For the 2026 edition, the blend features an African Cameroon wrapper over dual binders from Nicaragua and the Dominican Republic. Fillers also feature Nicaraguan and Dominican tobacco. The size is a 52 by six Toro known as Heroes. The company has produced a total of 2,000 21-count boxes.
[00:28:44] Gizmo: 21 there being an homage to the 21-gun salute. I thought the packaging on this was pretty cool. I wanted to show it to you.
[00:28:53] Bam Bam: That's nice.
[00:28:54] Gizmo: Pretty nice. Yeah. Nice presentation. And I like the story there. I like that they're celebrating an employee who obviously served in the military for so long and has also been with them, probably going on ten years now.
[00:29:05] Gizmo: So very, very cool. Look forward to trying that cigar, especially with that African Cameroon wrapper on it. By the way, I wanted to just point out, remember when we were we were at PCA talking to Ernesto as we were walking after the interview
[00:29:18] Bam Bam: Yeah.
[00:29:18] Gizmo: Talking about African Cameroon?
[00:29:19] Bam Bam: Yeah.
[00:29:21] Gizmo: So it's interesting to see it coming up on this, and I'm looking forward to Let's try it. To trying it. So, boys, let's go to our pairing now. We have a fairly expensive bourbon in our glasses tonight. This is the Basil Hayden 10 Year.
[00:29:40] Gizmo: So this is How much? Aged ten years in new charred American oak barrels. $85.
[00:29:48] Bam Bam: Oh, lord. Cheers.
[00:29:52] Gizmo: I just actually hit hit my cigar again. Cheers, boys. Good to see you.
[00:29:59] Chef Ricky: Nose is great. Citrus and toffee. Very smooth. It drinks very easy.
[00:30:07] Gizmo: So I just wanted to point out one thing. The reason why I went for this is I was looking for a pairing tonight. We hadn't done a bourbon in like four or five weeks. The ABV on this is 40%.
[00:30:17] Bam Bam: Mm-hmm.
[00:30:18] Gizmo: So it's right in line with a lot of the rums we drink, a lot of the tequilas we drink. Obviously, most bourbons don't sit that low. So I wanted to reach for this pairing with the Honduran tonight. So I hope it doesn't overpower. I hope it kinda sits alongside it.
[00:30:31] Bam Bam: I don't think it overpowers at all. Not at all.
[00:30:33] Gizmo: What do you guys think? Senator's not convinced.
[00:30:36] Senator: I think it's a perfect pairing for the following reason. I think there are flavor notes that I like in the bourbon. It's smooth, but it lacks depth Yep. Which is exactly the problem with the cigar. So they're they're one in the same.
[00:30:55] Senator: I mean, it's very drinkable. I'm not I'm definitely going to finish this. There's no question about that. But at an $85 price point, that's where you're looking for some depth, some richness, like something to really keep you coming back. And the only thing that keeps me coming back is it's just so easy to drink.
[00:31:10] Senator: That's really it.
[00:31:11] Bam Bam: Yeah. That's a good merit.
[00:31:13] Rooster: It is. Is citrus like an odd note on a bourbon?
[00:31:16] Bam Bam: I would say yes.
[00:31:19] Rooster: I've never heard a citrus note called on a bourbon ever.
[00:31:22] Bam Bam: Me either.
[00:31:23] Gizmo: Yeah.
[00:31:23] Chef Ricky: For me, it's like like dried orange peel.
[00:31:26] Senator: But that's a that... If it is that and I'm not sure that it is, this is exactly what Basil Hayden... That's like their flavor profile.
[00:31:37] Chef Ricky: So if
[00:31:37] Senator: you've had the standard, their Basil Hayden, it's exactly like this. So do you... This is just smoother and more refined.
[00:31:45] Gizmo: I was gonna say, what do you see in the ten year?
[00:31:48] Senator: The only thing that I'm disappointed... I mean, it's smoother, which I really like and appreciate. I... Neat. The regular standard stuff wouldn't be like this, but
[00:31:56] Chef Ricky: I feel like the standard is more pepper like forward.
[00:31:58] Senator: There is for sure. So this is a lot easier to drink, but I just wish that with more time in a barrel that it would have actually concentrated some of the flavor, and it hasn't really done that.
[00:32:07] Chef Ricky: At all.
[00:32:07] Senator: Yeah. It's just smoothed it out, but there's not a richness there.
[00:32:10] Gizmo: Yeah. There should be a... It should be a little more viscous.
[00:32:13] Bam Bam: You have
[00:32:13] Senator: a ten year single malt and a twelve year. The twelve year always has more richness. You have a seven year rum and a twelve year rum. There's more richness. That's not happening here.
[00:32:21] Chef Ricky: And to your point with the lack of depth in the cigar, we're smoking ten-year-old tobacco and it's not delivering At
[00:32:30] Gizmo: this point it could be six or seven, but still it should be delivering more I think.
[00:32:37] Bam Bam: I do like the finish on the bourbon. It's super smooth. Fairly long. I do like that call out, that orange peel that's there.
[00:32:44] Gizmo: Do you guys think that you'd feel better about this bourbon as a pairing for the cigar tonight if it was priced
[00:32:50] Bam Bam: Yes.
[00:32:51] Gizmo: In the fifties or sixties? Where do you think it should be? Lower. If
[00:32:53] Senator: this was $40, I would feel great about this. Less less than half. Seriously, I'm sorry. This is a this is not a
[00:33:00] Gizmo: I think it's sinful that it's $85. Honestly I agree. I honestly bought it kind of in spite of itself because the 40% worked. We hadn't done a Basil Hayden. We did the, you know, the original a long time ago, but ten years, $85 I thought was crazy.
[00:33:14] Senator: There's some ten year bourbon that we did within the last couple of months that was very good. It was smoother than the standard fare stuff, but it had some depth and some richness, and we understood why it was at a higher price point with the ten years on it.
[00:33:30] Gizmo: Was it the Bulleit Frontier?
[00:33:32] Senator: Yes. Yes. Because Bulleit is as ubiquitous as a bourbon as it exists. That's standard.
[00:33:36] Gizmo: And we did that one with the Aladino 250th.
[00:33:38] Senator: There you go.
[00:33:39] Gizmo: Episode 242 for anyone who's interested.
[00:33:41] Senator: And that shocked me because regular Bulleit is very light. I mean, honestly, regular Bulleit is pretty much like what we're drinking right here in terms of just the So light body that it
[00:33:50] Gizmo: drinkable too.
[00:33:51] Senator: But that ten years, it like brought a richness to it that I never thought was within Bulleit's kind of portfolio. But this is just a much smoother standard fare Basil Hayden, which to me should not command an $85 price point.
[00:34:06] Bam Bam: I agree. I am enjoying it though. I can't say that it's not tasty. There's a decent flavor. The finish is nice.
[00:34:13] Bam Bam: It's I think pairing nicely with this cigar. It's helping the cigar along.
[00:34:16] Gizmo: I agree. I think they're both not doing enough, but together they're doing okay.
[00:34:21] Chef Ricky: Yeah.
[00:34:21] Senator: Yeah.
[00:34:24] Rooster: Has the cigar changed for you guys at all?
[00:34:28] Gizmo: I think it's gotten creamier like Senator was saying, but from that point, For not
[00:34:31] Rooster: me, it's pretty much the
[00:34:33] Senator: same. Really? So the weird thing is it got creamier and now it's reverted right back to this thin smoke that I got.
[00:34:43] Chef Ricky: I thought it was just me.
[00:34:46] Bam Bam: Any notes you're capturing?
[00:34:48] Chef Ricky: The first thing I did was look at the foot to make sure it was lit because that's how drastic that change was for me.
[00:34:57] Senator: And the thing that I'm getting now more of that I'm not really loving is I'm getting a lot more cedar now suddenly that I don't really love.
[00:35:05] Bam Bam: Wow. I'm not getting any of that right now.
[00:35:07] Chef Ricky: What are you getting?
[00:35:08] Bam Bam: I'm still getting that weird maple thing and floral a little bit.
[00:35:12] Rooster: You think it's cedar or is it like that grassy hay type?
[00:35:17] Bam Bam: It's earthy. For me,
[00:35:18] Gizmo: it's definitely definitely getting
[00:35:19] Senator: that. Cedar.
[00:35:20] Bam Bam: Yeah. I can equate for me, cedar earthiness depending on how it's performing kind of overlaps. But I could see cedar makes sense.
[00:35:29] Senator: I really, really, really dislike heavy cedar in
[00:35:33] Bam Bam: this Me too.
[00:35:33] Gizmo: No. No. I think we
[00:35:34] Senator: all As Giz is sensitive to, like, honey, I am sensitive to heavy cedar, and I like earth in a cigar.
[00:35:41] Bam Bam: Yeah.
[00:35:41] Senator: I can even deal with grassy notes or hay or some of those, but cedar
[00:35:46] Bam Bam: It's offensive.
[00:35:47] Senator: It's like, you know, I like the smell of cedar in like a, you know, fresh cigar tower or fresh humidor. Mm-hmm. But on your palate
[00:35:55] Bam Bam: On your deck.
[00:35:55] Rooster: It's like drying.
[00:35:56] Senator: Yeah. Yes. Exactly. And I just don't like how that sits on your palate, unless it's very faint. There are some Davidoff cigars that definitely have cedar, but it's faint, and it works.
[00:36:07] Senator: But this is picking up now
[00:36:09] Rooster: to the Because on some of those Davidoffs that you're talking about, it's the other notes that dominate the cedar. So the cedar is kind of in the background. And this, that cedar, grassy, hay note is kind of in the forefront. That's exactly. And that's dominating the cigar, and it's making it kind of boring.
[00:36:25] Senator: And dry.
[00:36:26] Rooster: And dry.
[00:36:28] Gizmo: So I just want to go to some flavor notes that I collected for the Basil Hayden's ten year. On the nose, mature oak, vanilla, light smoke, honey, and toasted marshmallow. On the palate, caramel, butterscotch, called that out early on the cigar, seasoned oak, black pepper, and rye spice. On the finish, it's gentle, slightly smoky with lingering oak and spice. And they say on the mouthfeel light-bodied and exceptionally approachable, although somewhat thin compared to their
[00:37:00] Bam Bam: higher So there
[00:37:02] Rooster: No citrus.
[00:37:03] Senator: Wow. So they And there's
[00:37:04] Gizmo: no and there's no
[00:37:05] Bam Bam: citrus. I like that.
[00:37:07] Senator: I will say, I do like the bourbon.
[00:37:09] Gizmo: Yeah. Like it too.
[00:37:11] Senator: Yeah. It's just for the price.
[00:37:12] Chef Ricky: The price point is
[00:37:13] Senator: And if this was $40, $50, this would actually get a very high score because this could pair with so many different cigars that we smoke. It's just the price that I'm expecting more, and that's why I'm complaining. Yeah.
[00:37:24] Gizmo: Obviously, we're gonna rate this bourbon in a silo. Right? How did it do tonight? How would it do with cigars? But as the lizards and our, let's call it the alcohol rotation, the spirits rotation, even if this gets a high eight, low nine, let's just assume, right?
[00:37:42] Gizmo: I don't think that even at $50, $60, this would be something that would crack the rotation Agreed. To pair with cigars. It's just not that... It's not good enough.
[00:37:53] Senator: It's not better than anything that we're regularly drinking, and that's the problem.
[00:37:57] Gizmo: And for some of these rums that we're drinking, some of the others... You know, what is it, three x?
[00:38:02] Senator: Yeah. Yep.
[00:38:02] Gizmo: What we're drinking some of these other rums for? Some four. Yeah.
[00:38:07] Bam Bam: I don't ever pursue Basil Hayden unless I'm putting it in a Manhattan or an Old Fashioned.
[00:38:13] Gizmo: That's it. Do you ever order Basil Hayden when you're
[00:38:15] Bam Bam: I have from time to time. The rye. They make a rye that I'll have in an Old Fashioned. Gives it a little bit of a kick, some flavor, but it's been a while.
[00:38:26] Gizmo: I think for that ten years, it's too thin.
[00:38:28] Senator: I'm frustrated with the cigar. Every time I take a draw, I'm getting some notes that I enjoy, that I want to be present. They're just too muted. How they could call this full? To me, that's insane.
[00:38:44] Senator: This is like trying to be medium-bodied, but is pretty mild in flavor.
[00:38:50] Bam Bam: Yeah.
[00:38:52] Gizmo: Yeah. Nothing's punching through. So, boys, I wanted to share some big news from a friend of ours. I talked to Dave West from Avowed Cigars and smallbatchcigar.com, Good friend of ours, huge supporter of the podcast, loves the podcast, big fan of Bam Bam.
[00:39:12] Bam Bam: Okay.
[00:39:13] Gizmo: Dave has left Small Batch Cigar. What? What? He is moving his entire focus to the production, manufacturing, and distribution of his cigars. Pretty cool, right?
[00:39:25] Senator: Is he taking Bam with him? He might. I might go.
[00:39:28] Gizmo: He might. He might need a rep.
[00:39:29] Bam Bam: He's a good guy.
[00:39:30] Gizmo: Dave's great.
[00:39:30] Bam Bam: His wife is a sweetheart too.
[00:39:32] Gizmo: And we're about to talk about Kate as well. So with Dave leaving Small Batch Cigar and focusing his entire professional attention on Avowed, on top of that, Dave and his wife Kate have launched Front Row Cigars, which is a new cigar venture built around celebrating meaningful people in their lives and telling their stories through cigars. So Front Row is going to be a sub... Kind of subset. He says it's his own room in the house of Avowed cigars.
[00:40:04] Gizmo: So this is still going to be under the Avowed brand. Their central philosophy is to honor people while they're still alive rather than waiting to celebrate their contributions posthumously. Dave describes celebrating and honoring people as something deeply personal to both him and Kate, calling it his soul's calling. So Front Row, like I said, will exist alongside Avowed. It won't replace it.
[00:40:28] Gizmo: It's not replacing anything. It's just going to be alongside it. Dave talked about their first release. Mister Friday is one of the people being honored through the project with additional individuals already lined up for subsequent releases.
[00:40:41] Bam Bam: So Will Bam Bam get a cigar?
[00:40:44] Gizmo: That is something I think we should work on. I agree. The living Bam Bam cigar.
[00:40:48] Bam Bam: Correct. Now I have another question.
[00:40:50] Gizmo: Yes.
[00:40:50] Bam Bam: Do they have a band design prototype to show?
[00:40:52] Gizmo: They do not.
[00:40:53] Bam Bam: Oh, they better...
[00:40:55] Gizmo: They will pass it through you.
[00:40:56] Bam Bam: Well, not just me. They better get it in gear. I don't wanna see a shit band on these cigars.
[00:41:01] Senator: Just put a pair of flip flops
[00:41:02] Gizmo: on the band. Yes. Oh, dude. Dave, that would be amazing. Please put
[00:41:06] Rooster: flip flops and a tank top
[00:41:08] Bam Bam: Nah. He has good taste.
[00:41:09] Gizmo: On the band. So Dave wants consumers to understand the person being honored, the creative decisions behind the brand, and the process of bringing the cigar to life. Alongside that, they are going to be launching the Front Row Podcast. So Dave and Kate will be developing a podcast documenting their daily lives, the art of cigar making, and their experiences as husband and wife learning about tobacco and blending. So I think that's pretty cool.
[00:41:35] Gizmo: So Kate's coming into this as a cigar smoker is now going to be involved in the blending and the whole line, and they're going to be putting out a podcast showing the process from soup to nuts from beginning to end. Think that's pretty cool.
[00:41:47] Bam Bam: Dave, Kate, I will offer my services for the very first episode as a guest.
[00:41:53] Gizmo: Is your ego gonna fit in there... Fit fit out the door tonight? So a major goal of Dave's is demystify the cigar making process, which I love. So we talk about all this, you know, undisclosed. Everything's a secret.
[00:42:06] Gizmo: Who's the blender? Where is it made? Dave wants to demystify that and share the knowledge that historically has been difficult for enthusiasts and aspiring blenders to access. Dave told me straight up. He said, I'm still learning, but I wanna document that journey rather than present himself as a master blender.
[00:42:25] Gizmo: So I think that's a really cool thing. Like, it's a humble way to do it. I think engaging the audience, bringing people into the process, the blending from, you know, there's gonna be a lot of ups and downs. Obviously. Front row seat.
[00:42:37] Gizmo: Exactly right. That's exactly what it is. So I think that it's cool that, you know, obviously, Dave has a lot of experience with Avowed. Right? And those guys over there making cigars, you know, but making cigars, blending cigars is a really tough thing.
[00:42:49] Gizmo: So him documenting, I think will be very, very cool. So Kate is gonna participate in tasting and blending discussions, offering her own observations and demonstrating how their individual palates and flavor associations differ. The content is intended to offer consumers an intimate behind-the-scenes look at how cigars are made. So congratulations to Dave and Kate and their new venture, Front Row Cigars and the Front Row Podcast. So check that out.
[00:43:19] Gizmo: You can find Dave very easily on Instagram. He's all over Instagram, and you could find them at frontrowcigars.com. So, boys, we've come to the end of the first third now on the Plasencia Cosecha 151 in La Tradición. Rooster, you're up. Paired with
[00:43:38] Bam Bam: Someone wants to leave.
[00:43:39] Gizmo: Correct. I can see it on his face. Paired with the ten-year-old Basil Hayden Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. What do you guys think? Where are we at right now on the pairing?
[00:43:49] Gizmo: I know we were just talking about the cigar, but where are we at on the pairing right now?
[00:43:52] Chef Ricky: How's it working for you? You know when you're sick or you have a sinus infection or something along those lines?
[00:43:59] Gizmo: Not anymore with the Naväge, but go ahead.
[00:44:00] Chef Ricky: And part of your of your palate's muted or or just not doing its job. That's what the cigar makes me feel like. I feel like I'm getting one part of my palate stimulated without the rest of it. Like, something's just missing. There's a hollowness and emptiness, a soullessness, I guess, to the flavor that the cigar is offering.
[00:44:22] Chef Ricky: I can't
[00:44:22] Bam Bam: fix for you.
[00:44:23] Rooster: That's very very deep, chef.
[00:44:26] Bam Bam: It's like pestilence.
[00:44:30] Senator: My god.
[00:44:31] Rooster: Deep thoughts by Chef Ricky.
[00:44:33] Bam Bam: That's That's his editorial corner in a newsletter.
[00:44:36] Gizmo: That should be. Would love a deep
[00:44:38] Rooster: thoughts segment. All the stuff
[00:44:40] Gizmo: you want to get in the weeds about.
[00:44:41] Chef Ricky: Listen, after two months, I'm gonna have people calling [unclear]. Yeah.
[00:44:48] Gizmo: The cigar is okay.
[00:44:51] Bam Bam: Think the pairing is...
[00:44:52] Gizmo: The pairing's very good.
[00:44:54] Bam Bam: Yeah. Think together it's fairly enjoyable. I don't think you can say anything more than that.
[00:44:58] Gizmo: I do think that the bourbon is elevating the cigar more than the other way around.
[00:45:02] Senator: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I agree. I've definitely enjoyed the bourbon more than the cigar. And I think Rooster earlier said he found the cigar to be boring. And at that time, I was getting a lot of sweetness.
[00:45:12] Senator: I wasn't bored. But right now, I mean, if I weren't on this pod and someone gave me this cigar at this point, I would put it down. I'm sorry. There's just not enough happening.
[00:45:22] Bam Bam: Can't disagree.
[00:45:23] Rooster: Yep. And it's a big cigar to go through.
[00:45:28] Bam Bam: A lot of torture there.
[00:45:31] Rooster: I'm sorry, but I mean, if you're going to smoke a Toro, you want flavor. You want some notes that you can relate to. There's really nothing on this cigar that I can say like, wow, this is giving me this note. This is giving me chocolate or coffee or sweetness. It's just the overpowering note is like tobacco.
[00:45:55] Rooster: That's about it. And cedar
[00:45:56] Senator: or hay or grass. I'm getting some sweetness, it's just not enough. Even there's a little bit of nuttiness, it's not enough. It doesn't even hit medium. It's mild, the delivery
[00:46:08] Gizmo: of everything. Again, I can't understand how they say it's a medium-full cigar.
[00:46:14] Rooster: It's not even close. They talk about the tobaccos being aged maybe seven, Let's say six or seven years. I don't see that. I don't taste that. I don't taste aged tobacco in this.
[00:46:28] Rooster: There's like even a little bit of a harshness from the cigar that doesn't relate to aged tobacco.
[00:46:36] Bam Bam: There is a touch of that.
[00:46:37] Gizmo: I will say though, being an optimist, this is definitely the best Plasencia cigar I've ever had. Yeah. I'm in the same boat. I just want to put that out not saying much, but I'm just saying that's the truth right now.
[00:46:49] Bam Bam: Yeah. Yep.
[00:46:50] Rooster: How much is the cigar again?
[00:46:52] Gizmo: $16, $17, but we got it for $14, $14.79.
[00:46:57] Bam Bam: You just fucked up the room.
[00:46:58] Senator: This is
[00:46:59] Gizmo: also said that Yes. You did. Forty minutes ago.
[00:47:01] Bam Bam: Oh, they weren't listening.
[00:47:02] Gizmo: I know. I am well aware to turn up those headphones.
[00:47:06] Bam Bam: Correct.
[00:47:07] Gizmo: Yeah. I... Honestly, I don't know what to think. I think, Senator, you know, that I think there was that moment that kind of that creaminess popped a little bit. I was really enjoying it.
[00:47:16] Gizmo: I mentioned the butterscotch thing It's coming back. On the front of the palate. It's not coming back for me yet.
[00:47:21] Chef Ricky: It's coming back.
[00:47:22] Bam Bam: Yeah. I can't say I hate
[00:47:23] Chef Ricky: it. Mm-hmm.
[00:47:24] Bam Bam: I won't ever smoke it again. But it's not it's not awful.
[00:47:27] Gizmo: By the way, we're not even at the halfway point yet. So let's see, you know, what kind of...
[00:47:32] Rooster: I'm almost there.
[00:47:33] Gizmo: Oh, he has his bands off already.
[00:47:35] Bam Bam: Yeah.
[00:47:35] Senator: I mean, I'm with Bam and I don't hate it. My frustration is just tremendous disappointment because when Giz says this is the best Plasencia he's had, I agree with that in that the notes are closer to the notes that I would pursue in a cigar. So I'm rooting harder for this Plasencia than any other Plasencia I've had. Like, this has what I want in a cigar, flavor note wise, but they're all just way too muted. And so I'm just sitting there how someone could have blended this and not said like, okay, all the ingredients are there, but we've gotta dial up the flavor so it leaves something that you wanna keep coming back to, and that's really the source of my frustration.
[00:48:18] Senator: It's not that I hate the blend, it's just they did half the job. You gotta deliver more flavor.
[00:48:23] Bam Bam: Did you capture any butterscotch in your cigar?
[00:48:25] Senator: At one point
[00:48:26] Bam Bam: You did.
[00:48:27] Senator: But it's fading now.
[00:48:27] Gizmo: It was on the very, very front.
[00:48:29] Bam Bam: So I kind of
[00:48:29] Gizmo: If you like, you let the smoke sit at No. This time I was skeptical
[00:48:34] Bam Bam: of that comment, but I may be confusing this maple experience with actual butterscotch. Mm-hmm. I kind of am getting that.
[00:48:41] Gizmo: It's on the very... Like after you push all the smoke out, it's very front of the finish.
[00:48:46] Bam Bam: No, not for
[00:48:46] Gizmo: me. Very front of the mouth.
[00:48:47] Bam Bam: It's in the base of my tongue a little further back. That's me.
[00:48:54] Gizmo: Right now, it's like out of the Plasencia we've done on this podcast, I've had a couple others outside of it. I guess my question, and maybe I should save this for later, you know, you tell me, but is there an audience for this cigar? Yes. Is there a repeat business audience for this cigar? Who...
[00:49:13] Gizmo: What smoker is that?
[00:49:15] Bam Bam: Well, I think Plasencia has a massive following.
[00:49:17] Gizmo: No. That's I... That's what I'm kinda digging into is why why can't I relate to that smoker?
[00:49:23] Senator: To me, your father-in-law is probably the, like Yeah. Perfect smoker for this. It's very mild. I think if you're a mild cigar smoker, yeah, you would enjoy this. If I like to smoke mostly mild cigars, yeah, I would definitely pick this up.
[00:49:37] Senator: But the problem is I'm usually looking for at least a medium-bodied smoke, and this doesn't even hit that. So I think it's a much smaller minority of cigar smokers that typically mostly enjoy mild-bodied cigars. So I just think you're you're missing most smokers with a blend like this. And I don't think Plasencia even markets itself as a as a cigar brand that goes for milder blends. They're calling this full, so it's like even the marketing's completely off.
[00:50:09] Chef Ricky: I think this is a high-end entry for someone who smokes cigars, but it's not for a cigar smoker.
[00:50:15] Rooster: I mean, your father-in-law likes the Dámaso. The Dámaso, yeah, Dámaso. But, dude, that has more flavor. Have...
[00:50:23] Gizmo: Honestly, I have not smoked one, but when I gave that to him, it was almost like when I felt like the first time I had an Espléndido, like, back of his head blew off. And obviously, that's an expensive cigar, So he doesn't smoke that on a regular basis. He likes cheaper stuff. But he likes cheaper stuff. He's like...
[00:50:41] Gizmo: He's an old school guy. Mm-hmm. He doesn't wanna crack the $10 mark if he can avoid it. And he's getting there with some of the Aladinos and Fabrica 5, of course.
[00:50:49] Rooster: He's got plenty of great stuff in his range of price. So when he comes over and you guys smoke a cigar in your garage, you don't hand him like a banded Espléndido,
[00:50:59] Bam Bam: A baccarat.
[00:51:04] Rooster: A Coronas Claro.
[00:51:07] Chef Ricky: You caught me mid water swig. I almost spit it out.
[00:51:11] Gizmo: I give him great cigars, and every cigar he smokes, I smoke the same one. So if that lends to Except the Dámaso. I've not had the Dámaso because I bought him that for Christmas.
[00:51:22] Senator: And the baccarat.
[00:51:22] Gizmo: And the Baccarat. No. But we've smoked a lot
[00:51:25] Rooster: of we've smoked a
[00:51:26] Gizmo: lot of Cubans, a lot of New Worlds. He had a, you know, he had a Perdomo. He had a bunch of the Aladino, a bunch of Fabrica 5. He loved the Lonsdale, the Trinity Robusto. You know, a lot of different stuff.
[00:51:37] Chef Ricky: Can't wait to smoke a Fabrica 5
[00:51:39] Gizmo: after I think if you gave him this cigar, I think he would say, yeah, it's okay. It's good. Good cigar.
[00:51:45] Rooster: Does he share his cigars with you?
[00:51:47] Bam Bam: Yeah.
[00:51:48] Chef Ricky: Yeah. Does it upset you?
[00:51:50] Rooster: My father-in-law gave me a plastic tip vanilla cigar. I
[00:51:53] Gizmo: know. I'm sorry about You need to go to therapy Oh, process your father-in-law is
[00:52:00] Chef Ricky: boy.
[00:52:01] Gizmo: Yeah. This is... It's disappointing because it... There's... It actually...
[00:52:06] Gizmo: There's so much promise here, like you said, Senator. Like, it's like they got to 50% and said, alright. We're done. You know, instead of just iterating a couple more times.
[00:52:17] Rooster: It's it's missing that binder,
[00:52:21] Bam Bam: like,
[00:52:21] Rooster: that would kinda put that oomph in that cigar. Yep. It's missing that. It's not there.
[00:52:26] Chef Ricky: Yeah. There's no finish on this. It's super short. There's no depth to it. There's not a whole lot of body.
[00:52:35] Chef Ricky: There's flavor, but it leaves instantly.
[00:52:42] Senator: I will never understand how this brand has been as successful as it is. It's crazy.
[00:52:48] Chef Ricky: It's marketing. Ever.
[00:52:50] Bam Bam: But they also... They're a huge maker of other cigars for other markets.
[00:52:53] Gizmo: Yeah, they grow a ton of tobacco.
[00:52:55] Senator: The thing. I have no doubt that they have good tobacco. I just think that they clearly don't have a good blender. Yeah. Not for themselves.
[00:53:01] Senator: That's the thing.
[00:53:03] Gizmo: And it's disappointing because, you know, like this cigar tonight, Honduran puro. Like, what have we loved here over the last two years? Yeah. Three years, other than a Honduran puro? Like, bringing that in after the disappointment we had in some of the other cigars, I was really hoping for, like, yes, like, some good Honduran tobacco.
[00:53:22] Gizmo: I'll be honest with you, this does not taste like Honduran tobacco to me.
[00:53:26] Bam Bam: So, you may have said this early on. Where is the factory that this is made? Is it made Honduran?
[00:53:29] Gizmo: Everything's Honduran. Yep. It's a puro. Every tobacco's from Honduras.
[00:53:34] Bam Bam: Wow.
[00:53:34] Gizmo: It's made in Honduras.
[00:53:35] Bam Bam: Everything. Wow.
[00:53:36] Gizmo: It does not taste No. Like a Honduran cigar. Honestly, it tastes closer to... We mentioned it earlier. It kinda has...
[00:53:43] Gizmo: It's like a... An offshoot with a lot less flavor than the Perdomo legacy.
[00:53:48] Chef Ricky: I thought you were gonna say Baccarat.
[00:53:50] Gizmo: It's kind of in that Nicaraguan zone for me, that more timid Nicaraguan with just not enough flavor.
[00:53:57] Bam Bam: Mm-hmm.
[00:53:58] Senator: This reminds me of like a JR cigar second.
[00:54:01] Bam Bam: Oh, boy. We're going off the tracks. Wow.
[00:54:03] Senator: No, I'm serious.
[00:54:03] Rooster: He's not wrong.
[00:54:04] Senator: I'm serious. I mean, I think of like early in my cigar journey when
[00:54:08] Chef Ricky: Yeah.
[00:54:08] Senator: I was very budget conscious and I would like find some, you know, name brand cigars that I liked. And then I saw these seconds and I tried them and they were meant to mimic them. And they were always like a shell of that cigar. It was like you got this muted, dialed down version of the real thing that you wanted. And that's exactly what I feel this is like.
[00:54:28] Chef Ricky: I cannot believe you had that experience. That's incredible. I've had that same experience. A buddy of mine would swear by these cigars, he'd buy the Churchill and cut them in half. Oh, boy.
[00:54:38] Senator: Oh, my God.
[00:54:40] Gizmo: Oh, my God.
[00:54:41] Bam Bam: That's as bad as wearing flip flops in the lounge. Yeah, no shit. You can't do that. Oh my god. You don't do that.
[00:54:49] Bam Bam: You don't.
[00:54:51] Chef Ricky: He did. He did. And then
[00:54:53] Gizmo: Half of the cigar's gotta be completely unraveling. Why didn't he just buy
[00:54:57] Chef Ricky: He probably stopped doing this about two and a half years ago. I give him shit all the time about this. But he was... Yeah. That's the perfect answer
[00:55:11] Bam Bam: for That fucking sound bite will go down in infamy.
[00:55:15] Gizmo: Oh, man.
[00:55:17] Chef Ricky: It's so good. It's awesome.
[00:55:22] Gizmo: Pagoda, by the way, is on vacation again.
[00:55:24] Bam Bam: I guess.
[00:55:24] Gizmo: For the listeners. That's right. I called Pagoda today. We're... I'm putting an event.
[00:55:28] Gizmo: We're doing an event in November at the lounge here. And I call him for some information I need, and I can barely hear him. I hear a bunch of other people. It sounds like chaos. You know?
[00:55:39] Gizmo: Like, I'm I'm I'm like, what's going on? And he finally comes into the call about twenty seconds in. Oh, yeah. Giz. Giz.
[00:55:46] Gizmo: Giz. Hey. What's up? I'm like, hey, man. You know, podcast tonight.
[00:55:49] Gizmo: You know? I'll see you later. He's like, I'm in Medellín. Like, I'm like, what? How?
[00:55:54] Gizmo: This guy travels more than anybody.
[00:55:56] Bam Bam: He's a James Bond villain.
[00:55:59] Chef Ricky: He is.
[00:56:00] Gizmo: I had no idea that he was going on vacation and wouldn't be here for the recording.
[00:56:03] Chef Ricky: Didn't he miss the last Plasencia episode or two, I think? He's always so lucky.
[00:56:08] Rooster: He knows.
[00:56:09] Gizmo: Yeah. I didn't know that we were doing this until about an hour.
[00:56:12] Senator: He knows. Pagoda's very good at getting out of hard work. He
[00:56:17] Bam Bam: could teach a master class.
[00:56:20] Gizmo: I wanted to talk about this. I put this thread up on FOH, and I actually talked to Senator about it because he loves wine and Napa wine so much, and you've had great experiences in Napa. So I saw this article that came out from Financial Times talking about the struggle economically that Napa Valley is having. Seeing much less traffic. The restaurants are down.
[00:56:43] Gizmo: The hotels are down. And the tourism to these wineries and the experiences there is way down. So Financial Times did a whole expose on this and a deep dive on what they think is happening there, and they called it Napa Valley's hangover. So I just wanna read a couple ex... Excerpts from this and then, you know, see what Senator thinks and see what you guys think about this as it relates.
[00:57:07] Gizmo: My angle on this is, is there a warning here in some way for premium handmade cigars? And I'm not talking tomorrow, next year. This is ten years out, you know, fifteen years out, but I just wanted to read this to and see what you think. So at this year's Premiere Napa Valley, the trade organization's auction for which top estates create rare bottlings, prices fell 39% from three years ago. And not one bottle crossed $1,000 compared with 2014 when 12 bottles went for more than a thousand bucks.
[00:57:41] Gizmo: So this guy who's a EVP at First Citizens Bank, Rob McMillan, says he has collected data from his bank's borrowers over the last twenty six years for an industry report he does and has been predicting a big dip since 2018, warning wineries to either adjust or die. Too many tastings at wineries require appointments, last several hours, and cost too much, he believes. On average, $81 a person. So, obviously, there's a lot of reasons for this, and he's... They lay this out.
[00:58:12] Gizmo: You know? COVID, younger people not drinking as much, preferring canned cocktails, cannabis, GLP-1s. They're blaming inflation, a collapse in sales to China, a drop of more than 75% of sales in Canada due to tariffs. So what they're saying here is that, you know, they compared it to Burgundy. They said unlike Burgundy where most people can't visit the high-end wineries, Napa democratically invites everyone to leave their $1,000 a night hotel to sample a $400 Cabernet Sauvignon with a $100 tasting fee.
[00:58:48] Gizmo: So they're saying the K-shaped economy may have thus far kept Napa floating above the forces that decimated the sub $12 wine bottle market, which has made up about two thirds of American wine sales. But if Napa gets wrecked too, we'll know that the wine business isn't at the bottom of a cycle. If Napa becomes another California town abandoned after a gold rush, then an economy based on wealth inequality and thousands of years of enthusiastic alcohol consumption might be over. So my point in all this was the commentary saying, you know, effectively, the customers don't just react to how you feel in an experience, but it's how that provider of the experience treats you and cares for you. And it's like if all of the cigars that are coming out that people want are exclusive, limit...
[00:59:43] Gizmo: You know, very limited, high price, crazy packaging, pretty much appearing on auction sites or secondary markets first. We talked about
[00:59:51] Senator: the Fuentes, obviously, the Habanos stuff. Isn't there some sort of parallels of warning to not treating all of your customers well and only caring about the higher end customer generally? So I very much disagree, but I first want tackle this EVP at whatever bank's conclusion that I think is completely ridiculous. This notion that the tasting fees are too high in Napa and that's why there's this dramatic drop off. To me, that is completely divorced from reality.
[01:00:28] Senator: Number one, the biggest problem is that wine sales are down dramatically. Young people are not drinking like older generations are. Oh, yeah. That's the problem.
[01:00:41] Bam Bam: Like the rest of us lush. Right.
[01:00:43] Gizmo: It doesn't... Speaking of... Pass the bourbon.
[01:00:45] Senator: It doesn't matter if the tasting is $20 or a $100. Those people aren't interested in consuming the product, so it's not a function of the price of the tasting. The other trend that if this person understood, I think, disproves his point, young... The youngest generation is all about experiences. They're not gonna be wine collectors.
[01:01:05] Senator: They don't wanna collect a bunch of products. They care about experiences. They're willing to spend money on concerts. They're willing to spend money on tastings. They're willing to spend money on omakase and, you know, high-end food experiences.
[01:01:18] Senator: It... But they don't wanna collect a bunch of wine bottles. That's not interesting for them. So I think this person reading into the tasting part of this has totally missed the boat as far as why Napa is struggling. The product is the problem, and I think for those younger people, vineyards that have nonalcoholic alternatives, they're gonna need to reinvent themselves to bring in the youngest generation.
[01:01:43] Senator: I think that's the biggest problem. Now taking a second point, yours around the cigar parallel, I don't see that. And the reason I don't is, number one, what I give the wine business credit for, like cigars, but not to the extent of cigars, I think the wine industry has done a great job of really democratizing so many brands. I mean, you know, we've talked about plenty of $20 bottles that we've brought on the pod that are great everyday, you know, easy drinking wines. I think even some of the highest end vineyards in Napa that used to, let's say, only start, like, their entry level bottle was a $150 plus.
[01:02:27] Senator: That's a steep price point. Even those guys have come out with, like, other offshoot labels that are grapes from their vineyards or mostly from their vineyard that are now $60 or $70. Like, they're trying to become more accessible, and they have been for some time. So I don't think it's the case that like Habanos S.A. or some of what we see in cigars, like, how can we drive up prices so aggressively? How can we have new fancy packaging?
[01:02:54] Senator: There's no fancy packaging in wine, which I love. It's a bottle with a label. You will never see anything else. Some of the most expensive bottles don't come in anything fancy beyond that bottle. But how
[01:03:07] Gizmo: great would that be in this world? Is what is what I'm saying. In cigars, how great would it be
[01:03:12] Bam Bam: Oh, agree.
[01:03:12] Gizmo: If it wasn't about packaging? If Gurkha didn't do what they did and then Opus continued it, and now we talk about the Davidoffs and now the emphasis is on the packaging. That's what they're marketing. Yeah. I They're not marketing tobacco.
[01:03:24] Senator: I guess the way I would say it is, you know, I think cigars actually could learn from wine.
[01:03:29] Gizmo: That's what I'm saying. But not a different angle.
[01:03:32] Senator: Yeah. Yeah. I understand. Know, you're saying like wine is an early warning shot to cigars. I don't think so.
[01:03:39] Senator: I don't think that anything that's happening in wine is really that parallel to what's happening in cigars. I actually think that the best of what's happened in wine cigars ought to borrow from, not be afraid of, like wine's doing something wrong in that, you know, we talk about Davidoff having a high price point. The problem is their offshoot brands that are supposed to be more accessibly priced are Camacho and Avo. None of us smoke them. Not because we're snobs, not because we think they're an inferior brand.
[01:04:06] Senator: We think that the blends suck. Wow. None of us enjoy them. I think there's a credit in the wine business that a lot of the offshoot brands... Like, I'll give you a perfect example.
[01:04:16] Senator: This is probably... Has to be... If we pulled the data, has to be one of the five most successful $20 bottles that's been released in the last five years. So Caymus, everyone's heard of, obviously, higher price point. Their stuff starts at normally, like, 60.
[01:04:32] Senator: It can go up to $250. Caymus was very clever to come out with Bonanza, a $20 bottle of red wine. And that's delicious. It's everywhere. It's in hotel minibars, It's in airports.
[01:04:48] Senator: It's in every liquor store you can possibly go to in any part of this country. They knew
[01:04:53] Bam Bam: It's... And it's very good.
[01:04:55] Chef Ricky: Someone brought it to the lounge? Was it Yeehaw?
[01:04:57] Senator: No. It was
[01:04:58] Gizmo: George. Lizard George brought it. George, yeah.
[01:05:00] Bam Bam: Correct.
[01:05:01] Senator: And I've had That's that's a blend. It's a blend.
[01:05:03] Chef Ricky: Yeah.
[01:05:04] Senator: And it's solid. It's a very solid everyday bottle of wine.
[01:05:08] Bam Bam: Mm-hmm.
[01:05:08] Senator: And I think that's where, you know, cigars fall short where for the premium brands. So, like, the analog to Caymus would be like a Davidoff Opus. Opus, one of those. I don't think that they're as purposeful about having those offshoots that actually deliver a high quality product. I think they have found more accessible price points, but we have not been grabbed by a single Camacho, AVO, a lot of these.
[01:05:35] Senator: So I think there are lessons cigars actually could learn from wine. I don't think that wine should be viewed as this case study of failure. I don't think it's that. I think wine's problem is a category problem across the alcohol sector writ large around young people drinking far less, and they are going to have to fundamentally get creative and do some really different things. I mean, you know, chef obviously, you know, has tequila and tons of tequilas and mezcals at his places.
[01:06:05] Senator: I guarantee that you have nonalcoholic cocktails and have adapted We've
[01:06:08] Chef Ricky: had to adjust. Yeah. Had to adapt. Yeah.
[01:06:10] Gizmo: Because of guys like Rooster.
[01:06:11] Chef Ricky: Yeah. Yeah. Not just speaking of, you know, Davidoff offshoots, you know, we do have one lizard in the room that really enjoyed one. The Zino.
[01:06:20] Gizmo: That's right. Oh, yeah. That's right. Best Zino guy. The best one.
[01:06:24] Rooster: Now, I was actually thinking about, like, Davidoff came out with the Dominicana, which was a more affordable Davidoff out there. But they discontinued it.
[01:06:34] Bam Bam: Yeah. Well, they had to because they didn't have that crop, right?
[01:06:37] Senator: But they haven't sought to replace it with anything, really. That's the sad part.
[01:06:41] Bam Bam: Nothing meaningful.
[01:06:42] Rooster: Like that price point between $15 and $20 for a Davidoff
[01:06:45] Bam Bam: Yeah, it's reasonable for that.
[01:06:46] Senator: Would be
[01:06:47] Gizmo: a home run.
[01:06:48] Chef Ricky: Yeah. Outside of Davidoff though, there's really no other brand that is at risk that Gizmo's talking about that we smoke here. We're not smoking any Opuses or Gurkhas or anything like that, with the exception of Bam here and there.
[01:07:03] Bam Bam: That's correct. And I embrace it. I will say, the past month I've been doing a lot of entertaining to develop business with brokers, clients. Mixologists? Yes.
[01:07:19] Bam Bam: These are expensive dinners at great places and they're pretty full. Usually, at my age, probably one of the older members of this... Oldest. Yeah. No.
[01:07:35] Bam Bam: Old boy. I'm older than most of the kids that are going to these places, and these look like kids that have great careers. They're making a lot of money, and they want to spend it, but I'm looking at what they're drinking. I actually haven't seen a wine glass in front of any of these younger kids, These are kids in their thirties. They're all cocktails and other mixed drinks.
[01:08:03] Senator: Even that goes to my point about experiences, if you understand the consumer. Cocktails of younger people who do drink are far more interesting than wine because there's craftsmanship that they get to see. Yes. Mm-hmm. Right?
[01:08:20] Senator: The bottle of wine is already made. The craftsmanship happened in Napa, France, wherever. They don't get to see it. They just see it poured. That's not interesting for them.
[01:08:28] Senator: But to watch, you know, Bam the other night sent the, you know, smoked Old Fashioned. Exactly. Yeah.
[01:08:33] Bam Bam: That's fun.
[01:08:33] Senator: And they see the smoke. Or I was at Blu on the Hudson in Weehawken a few months ago, and like, I got this Old Fashioned. It was served in a glass where they had dry ice underneath that the smoke was billowing out the entire time you're drinking. Like, It's those experiential things that the younger generation loves, and that's why I'm saying wine is gonna have to get creative. It's not easy to appeal to that generation.
[01:08:56] Bam Bam: And I think younger generations could associate wine with older generations, and it's kind of an older habit to drink wine, and what Senator said I think is right on the money. Last night, I had a martini, a few of them. Why is that funny?
[01:09:17] Senator: Because we've all seen
[01:09:18] Bam Bam: you a few martinis deep.
[01:09:20] Rooster: Because when you say few, it's seven.
[01:09:22] Bam Bam: And I also embrace that. So they bring out this, it was an excellent martini, but the stemware was very small, so they brought out a second glass, a bigger glass, full of ice, and a little mini bottle of whatever they mixed, the martini, was in a glass with ice and additional olives, and it was a great presentation.
[01:09:46] Chef Ricky: Were you at Dallas BBQs?
[01:09:48] Bam Bam: No. So, as I go through the first pour, I can pour myself my second glass of martini.
[01:09:55] Chef Ricky: Oh, they left a shaker at the table.
[01:09:57] Senator: No, usually it's a wine carafe.
[01:09:59] Bam Bam: Exactly, carafe, that's exactly right. It's fun, it's interesting, you know, you can kind of extend that first drinks experience. You may not want to buy a second one, I did. It's cool. It's unique.
[01:10:13] Senator: And I'll just say that the Napa thing is honestly really sad for me because Napa is such a beautiful place, and the tasting experience at a lot of these vineyards is really awesome, and there's so much history there. It's so cool, and the Napa's really, really struggling. I mean, I
[01:10:36] Gizmo: In the article was Thomas Keller from The French Laundry. Yep. He was talking about the downturn, And I'm sure his restaurants may be one of the only ones that's killing it all the time because it's But for him to be in this article commenting on it
[01:10:51] Chef Ricky: I'm sure
[01:10:52] Gizmo: he's suffering. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:10:53] Chef Ricky: Yep. Yeah. You know what it is? Wine isn't Instagrammable. But it is though.
[01:10:59] Chef Ricky: Only you know
[01:11:02] Gizmo: No, but if you're sick, you're there.
[01:11:04] Senator: That's the problem. To chef's point, just a photo of wine in a glass is not inherently exciting.
[01:11:10] Chef Ricky: Yeah. Or even if you put up a bottle with a label of a wine that you know is super rare, not many people know that.
[01:11:16] Gizmo: Right?
[01:11:17] Chef Ricky: So it's not a quote-unquote flex, you know?
[01:11:21] Senator: And that's why wine's gotta evolve, and I even think, you know, the uses of wine and even cocktails and other things, like, they need to promote the range that wine has. Like, you know, a New York sour, right, is a whiskey sour with a red wine floater. Like, people don't even realize, like, oh, wow. They put wine in cocktails like that.
[01:11:43] Chef Ricky: Used to have a Oaxacan we used to have an Oaxacan sour at
[01:11:46] Gizmo: A the
[01:11:47] Chef Ricky: what? A Oaxacan sour. Wow. So it was a New York sour, but there was Mezcal
[01:11:50] Senator: in there. Wanna try to tell you if you want a great New York sour, Club Macanudo in Manhattan.
[01:11:57] Bam Bam: Fuck. I was there last week.
[01:11:58] Senator: Excellent New York sour.
[01:11:59] Gizmo: It was entertaining. Excellent.
[01:12:02] Bam Bam: Excellent. I wish you would have told me. I would love to try that.
[01:12:04] Senator: It's really good. But I just... So I'm just saying they have to get creative. Like, I'm trying to think outside the box for them. People...
[01:12:11] Senator: Imagine you're doing a tasting. It's like, oh, great. I'm gonna try five wines and watch someone pour it. To Gen Z, that's not exciting.
[01:12:16] Chef Ricky: Yeah. You have to have an influencer go and, like, smashing grapes or something, doing something that's an experience
[01:12:22] Senator: that they showing how wine can be used in cocktails and other things, and, like, they start with the wines, and then how can the wine be used in other ways? And they start to have a little cocktail, a small one.
[01:12:31] Bam Bam: Like Very interesting.
[01:12:32] Senator: You gotta do more, and I think that Napa is still doing the same thing that it did to appeal to people, you know, fifteen years ago when I first went and when many people were going. Like, it... It's a different world, and they're gonna have to change.
[01:12:47] Bam Bam: Let's talk to Josh about that Manhattan's What is it called?
[01:12:50] Senator: A New York sour.
[01:12:50] Bam Bam: New York sour.
[01:12:51] Gizmo: So I just... I have two things for you, but I wanted to go, Senator, while you were chatting, I looked up the top five Cabernets, $20 ish that were released in the last couple years. I don't think it's in any particular order. Josh Cellars, Decoy, J. Lohr Seven Oaks. This is
[01:13:10] Senator: a terrible list. All those have been around for way longer. They've been Bonanza,
[01:13:14] Gizmo: I don't know when that one came out.
[01:13:15] Senator: Like, within the last five. But the Okay. J. Lohr's been around for twenty five years.
[01:13:18] Gizmo: Interesting. And
[01:13:21] Senator: decoy has also been around for probably twenty.
[01:13:23] Gizmo: Well, I'm an idiot reading
[01:13:24] Bam Bam: I like them both.
[01:13:25] Gizmo: Whatever an idiot put in
[01:13:26] Bam Bam: here. They're drinkable.
[01:13:26] Gizmo: Yeah. So my other comment is this. And this is one thing I was thinking about as well, but you kind of just amplified it a little bit, is this thing about younger people. And if you think about what's happening in cigars and tobacco, we talk about it all the time with regulation and the generational tobacco bans. Obviously, that's not happening so much here in the States yet.
[01:13:49] Gizmo: But if you think about ten years from now, the average age of a premium handmade cigar smoker probably will increase, I would argue, seven to eight years. So fifteen years from now, that might be an acceleration of thirteen years on that average smoker because young people are not picking up cigars the way that you guys did earlier than I did, the way that we did during COVID out of boredom, really, and looking for, you know, some sort of community. But isn't there an element of this that is not that far off from young people not drinking to young people not smoking? Like, I don't think that's that crazy.
[01:14:31] Senator: I'm... I don't necessarily agree with that either. I think young people are forcefully by certain governments trying to be restricted from accessing this product. But I don't think it's the case that young people
[01:14:46] Gizmo: I
[01:14:47] Bam Bam: don't think they're avoiding the habit of cigar smoking.
[01:14:49] Rooster: Well, no.
[01:14:50] Gizmo: I don't think they're avoiding it. I just don't think that's something that they're
[01:14:53] Bam Bam: Oh, I don't know if I
[01:14:54] Gizmo: agree So
[01:14:55] Senator: No. I don't know. I'll just say this. When I'm when I'm in my office in DC and we've got a lot of young staff, and obviously everybody knows I'm the cigar smoker, you know, of my of my partners, I am always to this day blown away by the number of young people. You know, we've been hiring a lot recently, it's like hard for me to even keep up with everybody's names, and people just come up and say like, oh, you know, I'd love to have a cigar with you sometimes, I hear sometimes you smoke cigars, and I'm just...
[01:15:23] Senator: My jaw's on the floor. It's like a 24 year old coming up to me saying they wanna have a cigar.
[01:15:27] Gizmo: So maybe I'm reading it wrong.
[01:15:29] Bam Bam: It's cool to smoke a cigar. It's an interesting experience. So
[01:15:32] Gizmo: what's interesting about this, I actually had this kind of as a topic I wanted to bring up this week or whenever. So I went to the movies twice last week, and in both sittings
[01:15:42] Bam Bam: Did you see the same thing twice?
[01:15:43] Senator: No. Okay.
[01:15:44] Gizmo: The trailers. Before it. In the trailers, there were cigar smokers in several of the movie trailers.
[01:15:50] Bam Bam: Cool.
[01:15:51] Gizmo: Then I saw all over ESPN over the last couple weeks and over the last couple years, every time Tennessee wins Mm-hmm. They're smoking cigars. But what's crazy is how much ESPN is now willing to highlight that cigar smoking. I mean, think about when Joe Burrow smoked that cigar, And the highlight was Ed Orgeron, or whatever his name is, his coach saying, you know, take it easy with them cigar, boys, as he's walking away. That was the story.
[01:16:19] Gizmo: But now there's kids in Tennessee on SportsCenter smoking cigars.
[01:16:24] Senator: We talked about even last year. I was at a Beyoncé concert and like on screen, she's smoking cigarettes like what? Know what
[01:16:32] Gizmo: the craziest one for me is? And ESPN is a Disney
[01:16:35] Senator: It's like in her music videos.
[01:16:37] Bam Bam: That's that's weird.
[01:16:38] Gizmo: So ESPN is a Disney property. Right? Yeah. I'm shocked that Disney allowed an Avenger to be on the cover of Cigar Aficionado as an Avengers movie is about to come out. Wow.
[01:16:51] Gizmo: If that is not acceptance of tobacco and a will... You think ten years ago, fifteen years ago, they would have allowed Robert Downey Jr. As Iron Man three is coming out to be on the cover of Cigar Aficionado? No way.
[01:17:03] Bam Bam: I agree.
[01:17:05] Gizmo: And now that this was probably gonna be one of the biggest coming out, because it's kind of like a reboot, Downey's back as a different character, Anthony Mackie is on the cover of Cigar Aficionado, and he's in the magazine talking about smoking cigars.
[01:17:17] Bam Bam: He's the bigger burly dude, right?
[01:17:18] Gizmo: No, he's a... No. No. I have no idea. Skinny black dude.
[01:17:23] Chef Ricky: The new Captain
[01:17:23] Gizmo: He's the new Captain America. Anthony Mackie's the new Captain America.
[01:17:27] Chef Ricky: He was Falcon, some of the older
[01:17:29] Bam Bam: Oh, now I know. Got
[01:17:32] Senator: it. The only thing I will say that I think encapsulates a lot of this discussion is, you know, I don't think it's ever helpful to look at one moment in time and put too much stock in it in the sense that what's old always becomes new.
[01:17:48] Chef Ricky: Yep.
[01:17:49] Senator: So, you know, we're talking about now, you know, alcohol's falling out of favor with the youngest generation. Guess what? Ten years from now, it could be the complete opposite. Totally. All of sudden, it's very cool to have a drink for, you know, those same young people once they get a little bit older.
[01:18:03] Senator: And once they feel that way, then guess what? They're gonna influence the generation beneath them. So I just... The thing I always caution is like, things happen and there are major shifts, and then everyone looks at that one moment and says, holy shit. This is a gigantic departure from what has normally been the case.
[01:18:20] Senator: The future is now gonna look like that. And I think that represents that moment in time. It may represent five years, could even represent ten, but everything could revert right back to where it was ten years from now.
[01:18:32] Chef Ricky: So Yeah.
[01:18:32] Senator: That's just the only other piece I wanted to add.
[01:18:34] Chef Ricky: I think
[01:18:35] Bam Bam: wine is problematic for kids. I don't... Again, I haven't seen a bottle of wine on a restaurant that I've been to this entire month.
[01:18:42] Gizmo: Neither of my stepkids It's weird. Have ever sipped a glass... Like, they've never reached for a glass of wine.
[01:18:48] Bam Bam: But scotch Cocktail galore.
[01:18:50] Senator: And scotch, though, was the same thing.
[01:18:51] Bam Bam: At one time.
[01:18:52] Senator: Scotch was this old man's drink, And then all of a sudden, you started seeing women drinking Scotch. You start seeing younger people drinking Scotch. I talked about my senior year of college. I was so intimidated by Scotch. I couldn't appreciate the taste of it, and I started forcing myself to really dive into it and came to appreciate it.
[01:19:10] Bam Bam: He's in the bathroom in the dorm downing it. I gotta get good. Gotta
[01:19:13] Senator: get I used to do I used to do tastings at my... In my fraternity house. Like, I would buy a few bottles, we'd all try them, and was trying to figure out why people appreciated the spirit so much. And I think you've seen so many people. I mean, there are young people that I...
[01:19:29] Senator: Again, these... You know, how I keep in touch with kinda Gen Z is usually my employees, and talking to some of these, you know, kids in their early twenties, and they're like, oh, yeah. You know, I like Macallan. And I'm like, really? Why?
[01:19:41] Senator: And so, like, there is a curiosity there, but all these brands and these categories need to reach out, need an olive branch to that generation if they're gonna pull them along, and I just think that's what's been missing in some of what you're seeing happening right now. And then some of it is, yeah, there is a... This generation is more health conscious, and no one's gonna pretend that alcohol is great for you.
[01:20:05] Gizmo: It's not healthier than what we're doing
[01:20:07] Senator: right now,
[01:20:07] Gizmo: drinking a bunch of bourbon, smoking a
[01:20:09] Bam Bam: And a smoke filled
[01:20:10] Gizmo: and smoke filled room.
[01:20:11] Rooster: What's healthier than this? But wine is considered, you know, I mean, the only
[01:20:15] Bam Bam: In moderation.
[01:20:16] Rooster: In moderation that it's good for you.
[01:20:19] Senator: But there's always competing.
[01:20:21] Rooster: Don't you think champagne is more marketable than actual wine?
[01:20:26] Senator: Can be, but I think that champagne is actually harder for younger people to enjoy than wine. Because most wine
[01:20:33] Rooster: Because it's a full bottle that
[01:20:35] Gizmo: you have to consume.
[01:20:35] Chef Ricky: But it doesn't stop you from consuming.
[01:20:37] Senator: So like most whites and most reds are sweeter than any actual champagne. It's like the stuff that kids are gonna drink is like sparkling wine that's loaded with sugar. That to them would taste good. But champagne is drier. That's where like you have to develop a taste.
[01:20:53] Senator: I mean, even myself when I talk about when I was in college trying to get into wine, champagne took me longer because it was drier and it was more nuanced and harder to appreciate. So I do think champagne is tougher.
[01:21:07] Chef Ricky: I also think it comes down to experiences. You know, for me growing up, I watched my grandpa and my uncles, you know, drinking Coors Light, Budweiser. Right. Just or downing crappy rum. My kid's going to grow up and he's going to see his dad collecting bottles, some bottles that I don't even touch.
[01:21:24] Chef Ricky: He's going to see bottles that were on the shelves for a long time. Had a cocktail if I was trying to relax or respecting an occasion or something like that. So I just think the next generation is going to have a different appreciation for quality spirit. Let me
[01:21:45] Gizmo: ask you this, oh, sorry, go ahead.
[01:21:46] Chef Ricky: No, and I think cigars are the same thing. Young people see us smoking cigars, and they may not know it yet, but to them, it looks like a person who's reached some level of success in their life. And I think cigars will always have that attached to it. Whereas wine, you know, the first term that comes to mind is wino. Right?
[01:22:07] Chef Ricky: Ripple. So it's a little, you know, yeah, I think, you know, for sure, the wine industry has some work to do, but I don't think cigars are.
[01:22:16] Gizmo: So, Senator, you said, you know, given everything you commented on, kind of disagreeing with my thesis a little bit, a lot of it. What would you say are good lessons here for the cigar industry? Like, what are some actionables? If you're the CEO of Arturo Fuente, you're the CEO of Habanos, what are some lessons here that you would apply to avoid what's happened here in Napa? Yeah.
[01:22:41] Gizmo: I think wine and alcohol in general.
[01:22:44] Senator: So a few things, but the first is not to avoid what's happened in Napa because it's not related to it. It's just more to borrow from, I think, actually what has worked well in Napa. As I mentioned, the finding high quality yet accessibly priced options to bring people into the fold and introduce them to your brand and take them up the chain to someday spend more money on some of your more premium products. I think wine has done that really, really well, and I think cigars could... I think there are a number of brands that could learn from that.
[01:23:15] Gizmo: The only thing we... The only new releases that we really talk about are limited edition, scarce, or high dollar items. There's not
[01:23:24] Rooster: And we celebration don't
[01:23:25] Gizmo: smoke any of them. Or marketing around new regular production cigars. Even Padrón has moved in this direction with the limited stuff.
[01:23:34] Senator: But I'm saying even... You know, we talked about Davidoff. Like, I'll throw out even other brands. Atabey, that's a very high priced cigar.
[01:23:41] Gizmo: And hyped.
[01:23:42] Senator: Right. Yep. There's no easy entry level option for someone to get into the Atabey fold. No young person's gonna start with a 50 plus dollar cigar. That's crazy.
[01:23:53] Senator: So I think there are from more boutique brands to some of the largest brands, lessons that can be learned in bringing people to the fold. The other thing I'll say is around the experience. If we all think of ourselves even as an example, the most monumental moments for us in our cigar journey have involved physically being there to experience how the product is made. And in cigars, you know, you gotta get on a plane and go to, you know, D.R. or Cuba or Nicaragua to see this stuff. And some of those places are very hard to visit.
[01:24:30] Senator: Nicaragua, you can't just hop on a plane and say, I wanna go tour all these plate. That's not gonna happen. Unless you're Pagoda.
[01:24:36] Gizmo: Correct. He figures it out.
[01:24:38] Senator: You know, D.R. is certainly easier. Cuba right now is next to impossible. So for the cigar space, it's actually a lot harder than it is in wine where you can go to California, out to Napa, it's safe, it's easier. That's harder with this product that we love. So I actually think that in the cigar space, it would help them to find ways to bring more of that experience stateside.
[01:25:06] Senator: I think it would be really cool, like, you know, it's great that Padrón has this Padrón factory in Florida. I wish that there was more of an experience around a preview of kind of what you could get by going to Nicaragua. Recognize that most people
[01:25:21] Bam Bam: can, in
[01:25:21] Senator: fact, 90% of people are not ever gonna make it to Nicaragua to experience that.
[01:25:25] Gizmo: What's interesting is J.C. Newman is doing a great job of that in Ybor City. They have the museum. They have the factory there where they make a lot of the cigars, like the American. You it. You can go and see that, but they're one of few.
[01:25:35] Bam Bam: If I may, I think the easiest way is for the retailers themselves to have events. Events. Too? Events where you can actually go and learn about the products, how they're
[01:25:49] Rooster: Having rollers come and maybe roll
[01:25:51] Gizmo: cigars. Events at North Korea.
[01:25:55] Rooster: Those were fantastic. The Davidoff events were awesome.
[01:25:57] Bam Bam: They don't do those anymore, but back in the day, those were some of the most informational, interesting, fun moments that I've had in my cigar journey.
[01:26:07] Gizmo: And I
[01:26:07] Bam Bam: learned I learned so much about the entire Davidoff line. I think in store events would be really, really cool.
[01:26:13] Senator: I agree, and that's actually something that wine has not done well that they could do better. They just set
[01:26:19] Gizmo: up a they set up a table at the Total Wine and Totally. Hope that you want to get a
[01:26:23] Senator: glass to try it, and they say have a nice day. They say here are the notes you're gonna
[01:26:26] Bam Bam: next I will say though, I have yet, I don't remember in five years, and I go to a lot of different shops and lounges, no one's throwing an event. No one's throwing anything interesting. What they're doing is they're putting a flyer up, they get you in the store, buy one, get one free, here's a drink, and just sit down and smoke.
[01:26:44] Gizmo: Or their manufacturer is there with a table with There a bunch
[01:26:46] Chef Ricky: of aren't
[01:26:46] Bam Bam: enough events.
[01:26:48] Senator: That's why I'm bringing this up. I wanna use spirits as an example. So in the single malt scotch category, I think they actually do a really good job of this. So how I've mentioned, I have this affinity nostalgia, for some reason, this attachment to Glenlivet. Not that I drink Glenlivet more than others.
[01:27:09] Gizmo: But it's good stuff. We just had it
[01:27:10] Senator: But the other we've we've started to appreciate more of their stuff. But I, for the longest time, the reason that I have that, when I lived in DC, Glenlivet, one of their like global brand ambassadors, would regularly, probably four times a year, throw events in DC. You kinda got a ticket to attend, and it was a whole night. They told the history of Glenlivet. You got to try the different expressions.
[01:27:39] Senator: You got to smell like they had these things you could smell, what each type of barrel that they would age the single malt and what that would impart and bring to the spirit. It was so comprehensive and sensory and fun, and then you're just trying the individual single malts, then you're seeing how they can actually be used in cocktails. I mean, it covered everything. It was so well done. All these years later, I remember it like it was yesterday.
[01:28:06] Bam Bam: And that's what's lacking in the cigar industry at the retail level.
[01:28:12] Senator: But at least in cigars, there's some of it. They just need to do a lot more of it, like you're pointing out. In wine, it is zero. Yeah. That's It's nonexistent.
[01:28:19] Gizmo: You have to go to Napa to experience
[01:28:20] Senator: it. And that's where like, I actually think wine has severely missed the boat. If I'm Caymus, if I'm a big producer, if I'm an owner of many brands, I would do, like, a wine events in major cities, New York, DC, Chicago, LA, where you get people to come out, and you gotta bring the experience, the craftsmanship to them, not just say, and try this glass of bonanza, cabernet. Like, that... That's useless.
[01:28:46] Gizmo: Yep. Yep. You could
[01:28:46] Senator: do that in a liquor store.
[01:28:47] Chef Ricky: Yep. Senator's spot on. You know, tequila and mezcal's exploded in the last fifteen years. Right? Ten, fifteen years.
[01:28:54] Gizmo: But they do a good job of what he's saying.
[01:28:55] Chef Ricky: Exactly. Yeah. At the events
[01:28:57] Gizmo: you do at your restaurants. And I...
[01:28:59] Chef Ricky: And that all started because I've been in Mexico four times. I've done industry tours. I've done, you know, distillery tours. You know, Fortaleza was one of the greatest tours I've ever done. And now it's open to the public where you could go and, you know, experience that.
[01:29:13] Chef Ricky: And they have a museum and there's an entire train ride dedicated to tequila in the town of Tequila. There's so much going on. And then they have educated brand ambassadors that come to your restaurants and do happy hours. And as people are drinking, they're talking about the spirit. They're educating the staff.
[01:29:30] Chef Ricky: This is all happening. And that's why tequila and mezcal and agave distillates will just have exploded and continue to.
[01:29:38] Bam Bam: As a consumer, you'll learn about brands that you like and you'll buy them. In the world of cigars, which is what matters in this room, this isn't happening enough and the events that are happening aren't high quality enough. If I owned a shop, I would try to have all the cigars that I love, that I'm passionate about. Of course, I'd have to carry other things that I probably don't like, but what I do have that I really love, I would promote the shit out of those cigars. And I know, I know,
[01:30:04] Senator: I can And bring the brands in.
[01:30:05] Bam Bam: And I can have Rafael Nodal come to the shop. Yes. If I'm a big enough retailer. I can have
[01:30:10] Gizmo: Vance Taylor from Stoic doing a ton of
[01:30:13] Bam Bam: events. Imagine.
[01:30:13] Gizmo: And what's crazy is he blends those cigars.
[01:30:17] Bam Bam: Yeah, yeah, so he can talk firsthand.
[01:30:18] Gizmo: He could talk. Dave West, like we just talked about. Same thing, these guys can talk.
[01:30:23] Bam Bam: The real... Manufacturers aren't gonna do that, but the retailers have the power to promote the cigar lifestyle. They're not doing it.
[01:30:32] Rooster: But the cigar manufacturers also have to be willing to come to these
[01:30:36] Bam Bam: And they will.
[01:30:37] Gizmo: Retail shops. I'll be honest, their calendars are filled with events for high dollar tickets, you know, celebrity stuff, these big conventions where people... It's like effectively a meet and greet. You know, they're kissing babies and signing autographs.
[01:30:52] Bam Bam: Which is complete bullshit.
[01:30:53] Gizmo: Which doesn't
[01:30:54] Senator: is where they need more brand ambassadors
[01:30:56] Bam Bam: Correct.
[01:30:56] Senator: Exactly. To reach more people.
[01:30:58] Gizmo: Exactly. In
[01:30:58] Bam Bam: Greenwich, they have events. They have Jorge Padrón himself coming.
[01:31:03] Gizmo: Yeah. The ticket's $1,200.
[01:31:05] Bam Bam: It is. Who can afford that? Who wants to spend that kind of money? It's all sold to their...
[01:31:09] Gizmo: Give the tickets to the people who buy the most tobacco from them.
[01:31:13] Bam Bam: Yeah. It doesn't help the overall cigar smoking community.
[01:31:16] Senator: Right. Like the Glenlivet experience I told you about. Do you think that the master distiller of Glenlivet was there? No. No.
[01:31:22] Senator: It was a guy like Luis who we met and have grown to Yeah. Flor de Caña. Great
[01:31:26] Bam Bam: friendship with Flor de Caña. And
[01:31:28] Senator: he is so knowledgeable. He's so passionate about
[01:31:30] Gizmo: the product.
[01:31:31] Senator: Right. He doesn't make the product. He didn't found the brand.
[01:31:34] Bam Bam: But he loves it.
[01:31:35] Senator: But that's all we needed to get drawn into Flor de Caña. So it doesn't take a titan like a Jorge Padrón or a Carlito for you to really immerse yourself in that brand and that experience.
[01:31:45] Bam Bam: Have Like, an ambassador.
[01:31:46] Senator: Find ambassadors that understand the product, are passionate about it, and can share their love for it the same way we share our love for the products that we care about.
[01:31:53] Bam Bam: Yeah. And if you pay the ambassadors well, they can afford to do that, it's only gonna promote the brand. It's gonna expand the buyers of that brand. Sure. It's a...
[01:32:01] Bam Bam: It could be a win-win. It could be.
[01:32:03] Gizmo: So, boys, we are well into the last third here on this Plasencia Cosecha 151 in La Tradición paired with the Basil Hayden ten-year-old Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. How's the pairing for you right now? How's the cigar? How's the spirit? What's working?
[01:32:19] Gizmo: What's not?
[01:32:20] Bam Bam: I'm personally not liking it right now.
[01:32:22] Rooster: Any of it?
[01:32:23] Bam Bam: There is really nothing that I can... I was able to pick out a few things. It has, as both Senator and Rooster have said, and chef, I think, it's completely muddled for me. And there's a little acidic thing happening, so it's not that great. I can put this down right now, but I won't.
[01:32:40] Rooster: It's uninteresting. Yeah. It's not really doing anything for us.
[01:32:44] Bam Bam: Yeah. And I've stopped consuming because I just don't want to drink anymore tonight. Rare.
[01:32:51] Chef Ricky: The fuck is going on?
[01:32:52] Senator: Sorry, we don't have martinis.
[01:32:54] Bam Bam: Correct. Usually, I'll continue to drink whatever I'm drinking well into a cigar that's not great, and it'll carry the rest of the smoke. Yeah. I mean It shouldn't have to.
[01:33:04] Rooster: I'm sure the pairing is helping this cigar for you guys a little bit.
[01:33:08] Bam Bam: It shouldn't have to.
[01:33:09] Rooster: But for
[01:33:09] Gizmo: me who's not, but I haven't been sipping. Just refilled my bourbon. It's been about a half hour. It's been about a half hour though since I've sipped anything. And it's just Same.
[01:33:18] Gizmo: I'm with you. It's just
[01:33:19] Rooster: mouth just completely dry.
[01:33:21] Senator: Same.
[01:33:22] Rooster: It is. I mean, this cigar is just... It's just so dry.
[01:33:25] Bam Bam: It's an arid wasteland in your palate.
[01:33:28] Gizmo: So I have a very... I want a quick answer from you guys. No. Because I have another angle on this question as it relates to the agave stuff. I want a short answer on this.
[01:33:39] Gizmo: Do you think that the agave and tequila pop has been helped by celebrity? Definitely, I think. No. In the way that Cigar Boom, it didn't... It wasn't successful long-term.
[01:33:53] Gizmo: I don't But bringing awareness to it Not necessarily. This.
[01:33:57] Bam Bam: Alright. Well, I'm just gonna say something really quick to preempt you.
[01:34:00] Gizmo: He's done drinking for the night.
[01:34:02] Bam Bam: I have a little bit left. For the serious tequila drinker, I would say no.
[01:34:07] Gizmo: But that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying introduction to bringing agave into your lifestyle.
[01:34:14] Bam Bam: Alright. Go ahead, chef.
[01:34:14] Gizmo: Isn't celebrity a pro Chef,
[01:34:15] Senator: you're up.
[01:34:16] Chef Ricky: Would say yes, but not in the way you think. I think it's helped the industry because it's helped people easily identify how superficial the celebrity tequila space is, how marketing drives crappy product. And I think what happened with the celebrity boom is that it created this counter boom of additive-free hyper focus and educated consumer. And that's what they want. No one or rather not no one, but the person who wants the Gurkha is the person who wants Casamigos.
[01:34:57] Chef Ricky: Right. The person who wants I don't know the you know, the another I don't want to throw Fuente under the bus like that. But, you know, I think the Gurkha is a perfect example. I just think it's two different consumers and it's it's really made it easy to separate them. So, I don't think I think it's made the tequila space stronger, but not for the celebrity tequila.
[01:35:22] Chef Ricky: It's made it stronger for the additive-free, non-industrial, just hyper focused on agave flavor and tradition. It's made that side of the industry stronger.
[01:35:35] Senator: So I have a similar but slightly different take in that. I think celebrities have been helpful in creating greater permissibility for the category. Right? Like, when celebrities consume products, it makes it acceptable and cool to consume that product.
[01:35:59] Gizmo: Steph Curry on the front of CA. That's good for cigars.
[01:36:02] Senator: Totally. Mm-hmm. And in tequila, doesn't matter the celebrity. It says, oh, someone very successful consumes tequila or mezcal? Okay.
[01:36:11] Senator: Maybe I ought to try that. In cognac, celebrities consume cognac, maybe I ought to try that. In champagne, celebrities talk about popping bottles of champagne, and maybe I should pop a bottle of champagne to celebrate something. Same thing with cigars. So I think it just helps make the category more permissible than it probably was before, where before that, it may have been viewed as something cheap or not, you know, high quality or as interesting.
[01:36:37] Senator: But I don't think that's what, like, fundamentally then drives, like, the craze and the mania around the product. It just makes it okay to be curious about it. I think that's where like the individual brands, the, you know, artisanal storytelling and the experiential stuff they've done, that's I think what really draws people in. And I think in tequila, the big brands that produce shit product, right, the José Cuervos, the... Those kind of people, even Patrón, any of those, they're not doing any remarkable experiential marketing to people.
[01:37:10] Senator: Like, that's not what's driven the craze. It's the smaller boutiques that have actually done that. Same thing in scotch. It's not like the Johnnie Walker and Chivas Regal that is like, you know, fostering all this love and adoration for scotch. It's the smaller yet mighty, you know, brands that produce single malts exclusively that I think are doing that.
[01:37:30] Senator: So I just think the celebrity piece helps open people's eyes to the category.
[01:37:34] Gizmo: Yep.
[01:37:34] Senator: But it's the individual brands that really draws them and keeps them there.
[01:37:38] Bam Bam: Well said. Well said.
[01:37:39] Gizmo: This was a great discussion, boys. I'm glad I brought it up. I was hesitant because it was like a Napa Valley thing, and Senator pushed back when I texted him, but it ended up being a really informative and complete discussion. So I appreciate it. And, of course, if there's anybody out there in Lizard Nation and you wanna chime in on this discussion, send us an email, a voice memo, whatever you want.
[01:37:57] Bam Bam: I'm proud of you. You fought through the Senator's stonewalling.
[01:38:00] Gizmo: Well, no. I expected it.
[01:38:01] Rooster: Was no stonewalling.
[01:38:02] Gizmo: I don't think a stonewalling
[01:38:03] Bam Bam: would speak.
[01:38:03] Gizmo: But I came in
[01:38:04] Senator: Unlike some, I let him speak first.
[01:38:09] Gizmo: Correct. I mean, I came in with questions. I don't have the answers. I came in with questions. That's...
[01:38:14] Gizmo: You know? So I learned tonight, and I hope listeners out there did as well. And, of course, I love applying it to cigars as we did because I think it's really interesting, the parallels and also the stuff that isn't parallel in all of these industries. Bam is happy once again. Bam, tell them why.
[01:38:32] Bam Bam: Oh, I have a Padrón Exclusivo in my hand. Okay, homeboy. This thing is a flavor bomb after that.
[01:38:38] Gizmo: Hell
[01:38:38] Bam Bam: yeah. Sandpaper that we smoked.
[01:38:41] Gizmo: Brown paper bag. Alright, boys. Let's go to a couple listener emails, and we'll get to our ratings. First up is one from our friend Lizard Rhino. He's the guy who won the Davidoff Maxamar box from our Instagram giveaway with Small Batch Cigar for episode 250.
[01:38:58] Gizmo: He says, gentlemen, Lizard Rhino here. I was the lizard that won the box of Davidoff Maxamars back in September, and I just had my first one a few weeks ago on my trip to the D.R. When I got in the car this morning for my commute and saw you guys were reviewing it, I had to run back inside and grab another out of my humidor to smoke along with you. I love hearing that, man.
[01:39:19] Bam Bam: That's cool.
[01:39:20] Gizmo: I love hearing it. Now here is what I can say. After my first one, I thought they were very good, but I couldn't justify purchasing a box of $50 a cigar. But today... Well, today is a different story.
[01:39:31] Gizmo: They either get even better with rest or they are inconsistent, and I got an absolute banger. Taking into consideration the manufacturer, I'm leaning towards letting them rest. After another few weeks, it went from very good to legendary, and I'm now ordering a box. Thank you guys for another entertaining commute. I wish I could have enjoyed in the drink as I am a sucker for the Glenlivet 12, the Jamaican, but there is always tonight.
[01:39:57] Gizmo: I can't wait for the episode, but the Aging Room La Bohème, as I have a box waiting for me in the humidor. That's coming up, by the way. PS, I sure would like to see a Lizard monthly subscription from small batch that comes with the cigars that you're gonna be smoking in your upcoming episodes. I know sometimes things can change last minute, and we can't get Cubans, but overall, I think it would be great fun. Thank you for all the smiles and the laughter, Lizard Rhino.
[01:40:24] Chef Ricky: Would have been tough today considering you picked the cigar an hour before recording.
[01:40:28] Gizmo: There's two elements of this.
[01:40:30] Senator: We wouldn't have wanted this in the sample.
[01:40:32] Gizmo: Yeah. Exactly. Well, that's... So there's two things here. Number one, I think the reason why the Lizard Sampler worked that we did with small batch was because it was all the 90, 92-plus cigars that we had done that they had.
[01:40:46] Gizmo: It worked out really well. Number two, we would probably have to pick the cigars we're smoking three, four months in advance. I pulled this cigar an hour before we were coming. So that's just not the way we work. I think there's another element to this as well is that if we were doing a monthly subscription, and if you think about three episodes ago, the five episodes before that or so, we had a run of pretty bad cigars.
[01:41:15] Gizmo: So for us to put samplers together with our name on it, that then we smoke on this podcast and rate sixes, sevens, low eights, that does not align with who we are and what we wanna offer as the best of what we do in any sort of sample or anything like that. The difference between us and a lot of other media, and I'm not gonna knock other media, but most of the time when we come in this room to smoke a cigar and review it, we're smoking it for the first time. There's a reason why a lot of magazines and a lot of media, you don't see published reviews under an eighty five and eighty four. Because if the cigar sucks, they don't tell you about it. They don't publish it.
[01:41:57] Gizmo: We, on the other hand, we don't care, and we do. So it doesn't work for us the way that we work and the way that we review to, in the future, put samplers together. I'd rather put samplers together from the past.
[01:42:12] Chef Ricky: I could see why he would want a sampler after smoking a Maxamar.
[01:42:15] Senator: Well, the But if
[01:42:16] Chef Ricky: he had this Plasencia, he'd be pissed off.
[01:42:18] Gizmo: And some of the other cigars we had in the in... Right after 250. Mean, we went on a three or four week run with real bad cigars. So if that filled up more than half of a sample that someone bought, I don't wanna do that. So that's the answer to that.
[01:42:32] Gizmo: So you won't see a monthly sampler, but we will keep the samplers coming. And now, boys, it's time to go to our lizard of the week presented by our friends at Bond Roberts. And our lizard of the week this week is Lizard Chimera. And Lizard Chimera says, hey, Lizards. I just started listening to the podcast.
[01:42:55] Gizmo: I'm about four episodes in, and I'm totally hooked. While I've been smoking cigars on and off for about ten years now, I really got into them early last year. Cuban cigars really helped me get into them. The flavor profile and strength have played a huge role. I've amassed a humble collection of maybe 300 plus Cubans, but as an American, I'm sure we can all understand going through the gamut of non-Cuban smokes.
[01:43:18] Gizmo: Unfortunately for me, I found that Cubans not only taste better to me, but the strength of the nicotine is really different. I've recently lost 50 pounds in the past year, so I'm usually in some sort of calorie deficit and usually do not smoke on a full stomach. I tend to smoke two cigars back to back over the course of a few hours if I can, which I found with Cubans no matter the marca, I have never experienced any level of nausea. However, when I smoke New World cigars, I tend to avoid fuller strength cigars because they can really sneak up on me. I really want to branch out to more fuller blends, but I'm not sure if they'll make me feel nauseous.
[01:43:55] Gizmo: I have the Padrón nineteen sixty four Exclusivo Bam on my radar, thanks to the pod, but worry that I won't be able to handle the nicotine. I tend to smoke after a light lunch and have a more substantial dinner later. Is there any advice or insight into this topic you can give outside of just having more to eat before smoking? Do any of you find the strength different between Cubans and new worlds as noticeable as I do? Cheers, Lizard Chimera.
[01:44:22] Bam Bam: I don't often smoke a cigar unless I eat something. I'm always eating something before I come here, even if it's something small. So if you're dropping all that weight and you're not eating, it'll be tough to enjoy New World, maybe for some people. I think it's a personal thing.
[01:44:38] Rooster: But on the other hand, there's a lot of New World cigars that are on the milder side. You could try the Fabrica 5 cigars, the Honduran, you know, all the Honduran blends. The Aladinos. Aladinos are great. Even the Tatuaje Cabaiguan was, you know, it's a There's fantastic so many cigars that he doesn't have to smoke just the Exclusivo, but the Exclusivo, I mean, it's...
[01:45:02] Rooster: We smoke it all the time. I mean,
[01:45:04] Gizmo: I don't think works. Mean, we're pretty well into this. We're not on the weight loss journey he is eating, you
[01:45:09] Bam Bam: know, eating at a deficit. And his cigar journey began in Cuban catalog, right?
[01:45:13] Gizmo: Yeah, he's pretty deep into Cubans, on and off for ten years, really just smoking pretty heavily in
[01:45:17] Rooster: the Yeah,
[01:45:17] Gizmo: past but I
[01:45:17] Rooster: assume he's in the States and it's going to be hard to get Cuban cigars in the future.
[01:45:21] Bam Bam: Well, that's 300 of them right now.
[01:45:25] Rooster: But I think there's a lot of new world cigars out there that he can explore. He can look through our ratings. He listens to the entire catalog, he should be able to smoke many cigars that are not nicotine heavy. Hondurans, even Dominicans, even some Nicaraguans that are on the milder side. It should be fine.
[01:45:45] Gizmo: See, my problem with answering his question, especially the one about strength between Cubans and New Worlds, from a nicotine punch, nausea standpoint, like, can't remember the last time that happened to me. And I think it's just because of the volume that I smoke and we smoke and
[01:46:02] Bam Bam: how we do
[01:46:05] Gizmo: it. So I feel like, honestly, I feel like a little bit of a bad judge here answering this question. Like, I don't I don't think I can answer this fairly accurately because I'm so far detached from... Like, if I smoke the most full cigar right now, it's not gonna make me nauseous.
[01:46:20] Senator: No. Yeah, but that's because you've had food.
[01:46:23] Gizmo: Correct. And also, I'm used to it. So it's not
[01:46:25] Rooster: like he doesn't eat. I mean, he can have the Exclusivo after a light meal. Think he should be fine.
[01:46:31] Bam Bam: If we can send him a list of recommendations that make the most sense for him to try.
[01:46:34] Gizmo: Well, let's name them right now.
[01:46:35] Senator: I don't know. For me, it's different. I don't... For me, I don't view it as Cuban New World. Sure, there are few cigars that are very nicotine heavy, but I don't think that's the case for the vast majority of them.
[01:46:49] Senator: My experience, there are a lot of times where, you know, I eat generally lighter meals and sometimes I haven't had a meal and I'm gonna smoke. My experience, if you're operating on a light or empty stomach, the first third of a cigar is gonna feel substantial. Mm-hmm. Like, you're worried that maybe you shouldn't be smoking. For me, once you power through the first third and you keep smoking, it's almost like it kind of eliminates your hunger.
[01:47:22] Senator: It's very weird.
[01:47:23] Bam Bam: I can't describe it. It does have a curbing effect on
[01:47:26] Gizmo: the appetite. Yeah.
[01:47:27] Senator: And then the other thing for me is also if you pair that with a spirit, there's some sugar in there. I am no longer hungry at all. Let's say I skip dinner, and I'm meeting you guys, and I'm gonna smoke, and I'm saying
[01:47:40] Bam Bam: Good diet plan.
[01:47:41] Chef Ricky: I was just gonna say Senator's...
[01:47:43] Gizmo: It's a
[01:47:43] Senator: new [unclear]. Sometimes, I mean, honestly, it works well. Like, you know, I'm sitting there thinking to myself, oh, this is probably not a good idea. I haven't had a meal. And I just know if I just have a spirit and a cigar, I'm gonna...
[01:47:54] Senator: Food is gonna be the last thought on my mind. So for me, that tends to work in those kinds of situations that it sounds like that listener might be.
[01:48:02] Rooster: I would start the morning with a Padrón ninetieth and back it up with a Padrón black.
[01:48:08] Chef Ricky: I have a recommendation for this lizard, and I used it on Lizard J. This was during his span there where it seemed like everything he was smoking was a Padrón eightieth. And one night I walked into the lounge and he just looked like he got beat, like he was on the verge of running to the bathroom and letting it all out. And I was like, Hey, are you all right? And he's like, I think so.
[01:48:32] Chef Ricky: And I gave him a chocolate. There was like a I chocolate don't I don't remember where it came. I might have got it off the vending machine in the in the lounge. And he said, thank you. You saved my life.
[01:48:44] Chef Ricky: So a long time ago, heard this story about nicotine poisoning. Your body thinks your blood sugar is low. And that's where the nausea, the sensation of nausea comes from. So to overcome that, always have something sweet on hand, whether it's a hard candy, a piece of chocolate or anything like that. It'll just kind of help that, know, help you ride that wave and then it passes and then you'll be okay.
[01:49:11] Chef Ricky: So at the very, you know, if you just want to be on the safe side, have something, you know, whether a hard a hard candy, piece of chocolate or something sweet, a juice or something like that you have on the side or maybe a soda if that's your thing.
[01:49:26] Senator: Yeah. Or a 140 pieces of chocolate in a bag like Gizmo.
[01:49:29] Gizmo: Individually wrapped. You could say I'm a paramedic. I'm on call. If something happens in the lounge, I had my chocolates. Alright.
[01:49:38] Gizmo: I was The problem was you were I was ready to eat.
[01:49:40] Senator: The problem was you were preemptively throwing them throughout the lounge like Donald Trump with toilet paper in Puerto Rico. That was the problem.
[01:49:46] Rooster: We got kicked out of the lounge because of you. Correct.
[01:49:49] Gizmo: As a as a medicinal prac... Practitioner over here. Dr. Gizmo. Doctor Giz, I was concerned about you, and I brought the remedy. The Bouchard chocolates individually wrapped.
[01:50:01] Rooster: Alright. So instead of Lizard of the Week winning a box of cigars, we're gonna send him a
[01:50:05] Gizmo: box of Bouchard. Bouchard. I'm sure he's gonna be thrilled. The value of that prize just went from about $200
[01:50:12] Rooster: to We care about your health.
[01:50:13] Gizmo: 15.
[01:50:14] Rooster: We care about the nicotine
[01:50:16] Gizmo: level. Yeah. I mean, I think you just need to be careful. Like you said, you know, keep something sweet on you. If it's a Coca-Cola, if it's a candy bar, whatever.
[01:50:25] Gizmo: If this is a part of your journey right now, it's going to go away at some point, unless there's some sort of medical condition, or you're inhaling. Don't do that. Bam Bam, you still with us?
[01:50:34] Bam Bam: Yep.
[01:50:35] Gizmo: Okay.
[01:50:37] Chef Ricky: I say if you're gonna go the soda route, get a Dr Pepper.
[01:50:41] Gizmo: I'm a Coca-Cola guy.
[01:50:42] Chef Ricky: Yeah. So am I. But there's something about a Dr Pepper that hits differently when you're smoking a cigar.
[01:50:49] Senator: Wow. Lizard Obey over here. It
[01:50:53] Rooster: could be our next pairing.
[01:50:54] Gizmo: Yeah. So boys, we have come to the end of our evening now with the Plasencia Cosecha 151 in La Tradición and the Basil Hayden's ten-year-old Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. So what's everybody think about the pairing, the cigar, the drink right now?
[01:51:14] Chef Ricky: Interestingly enough, for me, the final third of the cigar was my favorite part of the cigar. It picked up a little bit in strength and richness and it rounded out where the sweetness that was coming through didn't feel artificial.
[01:51:28] Gizmo: I don't... I think my favorite part was still that moment where the creaminess came in, but the rest of the cigar is just like fleeting. Yeah. And it's it's just... I feel like I'm I'm, like, chasing my tail here with flavors.
[01:51:43] Rooster: Yeah. You guys talked about the sweetness that came through early on on the cigar. That never really happened for me. I never got that. Wow.
[01:51:50] Rooster: It was just mostly a very, very drying experience. Like your whole mouthfeel was very dry.
[01:51:57] Chef Ricky: Sounds like a miserable experience. Cause without that sweetness, yeah, yeah, you have almost half the cigar left.
[01:52:05] Gizmo: So boys, it's time now for the formal liquor rating on the ten-year-old Basil Hayden's Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey. Bam Bam, you're up.
[01:52:12] Bam Bam: I'm at an eight. Okay. I liked it. I think it's really easy to drink, pretty respectable. I do agree with how light it is, and I like that they've actually admitted to that, so it's something they were actually trying to do.
[01:52:28] Bam Bam: I respect that, and I could drink this with an Exclusivo. I can drink this with almost any cigar, and honestly, because of how light-bodied it is, it would be great with almost any Cuban cigar. I'm at an eight.
[01:52:43] Gizmo: All right,
[01:52:44] Chef Ricky: chef. I'm also at an eight. I think that their intention to create a light spirit that had flavor, I think they succeeded at that. The price point's high, but I think, if you're able to know what you're gonna get and what it's going to deliver and you're okay with the price, then you're okay with buying this. For me, if I know I need to get something that's gonna be easy drink for many, this will be at...
[01:53:15] Chef Ricky: Well, at this price point, mean, I do it for many, but it'll be an easy one to
[01:53:19] Gizmo: pick up. So for me, it's also an eight. I mean, I actually had trouble with this in an eight because I think if this was a 50 or $60 price point
[01:53:29] Chef Ricky: Oh, it would have scored higher.
[01:53:30] Gizmo: Yeah. Yeah. But I still might have been in the 8 or 9 range. I don't know if this would have touched the nine. You know?
[01:53:37] Gizmo: And it's like... So I was between the 7 and an eight tonight. It was a good spirit. I'm not gonna reach for this. I'm not gonna...
[01:53:43] Gizmo: Obviously, at $85, I think that's crazy. Yeah. Think I it did alright tonight. Honestly honestly, it was the highlight of the night here. But for me, the flavor was good.
[01:53:52] Gizmo: The viscosity was thin. Ten years in, like you said, Senator, how did this not grab more? In that ten years, how did this not pull more out of those barrels? And sitting there for so long, how did it not turn into something that was richer? I think it's a little disappointing, but given all that, I'm gonna go with an eight.
[01:54:13] Chef Ricky: I know there's a little bit that goes into aging, you know, the char of the barrel, how heavily charred that barrel was. Maybe it's offering more, maybe it's offering less. So, I mean, I get the age statement should mean something, but that also has a lot to do with the barrel and how it's been prepared to receive the spirit. Senator.
[01:54:33] Senator: So I'll make this an easy one. I'm also at an eight. I think very much aligned with all the commentary. This spirit to me, if you're a Basil Hayden fan, you would love this. It's all the traditional kind of notes that you would get out of Basil Hayden, but delivered in a much more smooth, elegant, refined way.
[01:54:56] Senator: I think Bam's commentary about the versatility of pairing this with cigars mirrors exactly how I feel. There's almost no cigar that I wouldn't drink this spirit with, so I think that's definitely a big merit for it, and why it's deserving of an eight. I think the flavor profile is balanced. It's not spicy. It's not too sweet.
[01:55:17] Senator: It's kinda just right in between where it should be, so I do like that. The only reason I had to take off two points, number one, I'm looking for more richness of flavor. I think it's a bit too light, and the price point, I just don't think that this drinks commensurate with other spirits at an $85 price point. It's not even close. Exactly.
[01:55:40] Gizmo: That's why I was I was teetering on a seven.
[01:55:42] Senator: I couldn't do the seven because I do think there's a lot to like in this. I have far more reasons to like this than I do reasons to be upset with But
[01:55:51] Gizmo: the money is a problem.
[01:55:53] Senator: For that reason, I'm at a strong eight.
[01:55:55] Gizmo: So boys, the formal liquor rating tonight on the ten-year-old, Basil Hayden, Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey, is an eight.
[01:56:01] Bam Bam: That's a good score.
[01:56:02] Gizmo: Fair enough score. Yeah. Yeah. I think it should have been a high seven. If I should have gone seven.
[01:56:07] Gizmo: Regretting my decision. Should have realized that, but ruined it. Think
[01:56:11] Senator: Cigar's. Don't think Cigar's.
[01:56:13] Gizmo: Alright. I'll stay
[01:56:14] Bam Bam: fuck it up.
[01:56:16] Gizmo: You. Alright, boys. It's time now for the formal lizard rating on the Plasencia Cosecha 151 in La Tradición. Rooster, you're up.
[01:56:25] Rooster: This was another disappointing Plasencia. Plasencia marca has yet to deliver for us. This cigar looked promising. I mean, smelled good. The wrapper, we thought it would deliver some distinct notes.
[01:56:46] Rooster: The cigar was overall very boring. I kept waiting for the cigar to change and deliver some distinct flavor notes, and it did not throughout. A couple of the guys even got some sweeter notes on the cigar. I did not. I mean, it may be a creamy cigar was a bit creamy for a little bit, but even that kind of dissipated, and it went back to a very dry cigar.
[01:57:15] Rooster: The mouthfeel was very dry. It definitely needs to be paired with something. I didn't have anything to pair this with, unfortunately. But the cigar, I mean, the distinct notes that you look for in a cigar, they just weren't there. I think the most distinct note was just tobacco.
[01:57:34] Rooster: So cigar you talk about cigars that are one act, two act, three act. This is just like a one act play in which is boring. It just did not change for me. So for me, the cigar, my rating is a six. I would not buy this cigar.
[01:57:49] Rooster: I would not recommend this cigar to anybody.
[01:57:52] Senator: Senator? So when it comes to Plasencia, I'm gonna borrow some words from Rooster. I fucking quit.
[01:58:03] Bam Bam: Yeah. This
[01:58:04] Senator: is I'm done. This is dog shit.
[01:58:05] Bam Bam: Three strikes. Three strikes,
[01:58:07] Senator: they're out. I'm done. I'm sorry. I said this the last time we reviewed a Plasencia. I wanted to never review another one, and this is even more frustrating than all the others because this could have been the one Plasencia that I would pick up and enjoy smoking.
[01:58:23] Gizmo: And that's why I brought it in Honduran puro thinking maybe this was the one. Sure.
[01:58:28] Senator: Now, you know, Rooster didn't get sweet notes. I did at many points through this cigar, but the problem was every point the flavor I was getting was way too muted, way too subtle, Nothing took the lead. Nothing had staying power. I mentioned at one point it started to get creamier and sweeter, I said, okay, maybe now we're onto something. I'm starting to enjoy it.
[01:58:51] Senator: And that lasted for all of five minutes. Yep. And then it went right back to being drier. I couldn't really pick out what was trying to be distinct in those moments. So flavor profile wise, did I have to put it down at any point?
[01:59:06] Senator: No. Did I want to sometimes? Yes. Just out of boredom. Not because I was offended by the flavor I was getting, just because it was thoroughly uninteresting.
[01:59:16] Senator: A cigar like this with such a mild profile, I mean, needs a second act. It didn't have that. I thought it was getting into a second act when it picked up in sweetness and creaminess, and that lasted too short. So I'm at a seven. I think this cigar really only potentially works for someone who really likes mild cigars.
[01:59:39] Senator: I think if you're a medium cigar smoker, I think if you're a full cigar smoker, this is a nonstarter. You wouldn't get past ten minutes of this cigar. The construction was pretty good. I will give it that. The combustion was pretty good, but the smoke was too thin.
[01:59:55] Senator: I think all of us talked about it having kind of a short finish. In the final third, the age of the tobacco maybe showed in the first two thirds in the sense that it was very smooth. The final third, I started to pick up on some rough edges that you would expect out of youthful tobacco, not aged tobacco. So I'm left unsatisfied. It's smokable.
[02:00:21] Senator: If there was nothing else to smoke and it was in a retailer, could I power through it? Sure. But would I ever pick this up really by choice?
[02:00:28] Rooster: $15?
[02:00:29] Senator: Would I recommend it with any bit of conviction, an eight, a nine, or a 10? There's no way. So I'm giving it a seven just because it's smokable. There's elements of this that could have worked really, really well, but they didn't complete the job, and that's why I'm left wanting a whole lot more than I got out of this cigar. So I'm at a seven.
[02:00:50] Gizmo: I echo everything you said, Senator, and you said, Rooster. I'm at a very generous seven. I did teeter on this as well between a six and a seven. Why did I go to the seven was... What you just touched on was the burn, the performance.
[02:01:05] Gizmo: So, you know, I wasn't having to reach for the lighter a lot. Like, it was a well performing cigar, but it's... Like you said, it's almost like... You know, it's like they stop the blending 10 stops or five stops before they should. It's almost like the flavor is, like, yelling at us from the other room.
[02:01:26] Gizmo: Like, there was no moment at which flavor really popped. Like, we were reaching so hard tonight. Like, butterscotch was like as if when I had the smoke in my mouth, I pushed it all out, and then I waited five seconds, and then I got a touch of butterscotch.
[02:01:42] Chef Ricky: It was the generic butterscotch.
[02:01:44] Gizmo: The one
[02:01:44] Chef Ricky: that comes in the orange wrapper.
[02:01:46] Bam Bam: And a very vanilla Werther's.
[02:01:47] Gizmo: It wasn't even Werther's. But it was a very, like, we were reaching so hard tonight for flavors because the flavor wasn't there.
[02:01:54] Chef Ricky: Mm-hmm.
[02:01:54] Gizmo: And I honestly... Again, I... That seven to me is generous because I'm never gonna buy the cigar. Like you said, Rooster, I'm never gonna recommend it, but it did perform well. It was smokable.
[02:02:04] Gizmo: It was, you know, heavy in the hand. There was a lot of tobacco in the cigar. $15 fine. I mean...
[02:02:13] Chef Ricky: But $15 isn't fair because you know you're not paying $15 at a brick and mortar. It's more like 19.
[02:02:17] Gizmo: Yeah, you're probably gonna pay 19 or 20. In the city, this is a $24 cigar.
[02:02:21] Chef Ricky: Exactly, Yeah.
[02:02:22] Gizmo: You know? So it's unfortunate this performed again. It's a strikeout 0 for 3 tonight with Plasencia. I'm really bummed out, but for me, it's a seven.
[02:02:32] Rooster: How does Pagoda get away with this?
[02:02:35] Bam Bam: How does he keep getting away with this?
[02:02:37] Chef Ricky: Say it, Bam.
[02:02:38] Rooster: I have an idea. What's that? For next week's episode. Five year? Five year episode.
[02:02:45] Rooster: We need Pagoda to smoke this cigar while
[02:02:47] Bam Bam: we are smoking the MDO That is brilliant.
[02:02:51] Senator: And let's see how long it
[02:02:52] Rooster: takes him to realize it. Yes.
[02:02:54] Gizmo: Oh. We should put...
[02:02:55] Rooster: Change the band on
[02:02:56] Bam Bam: there.
[02:02:57] Senator: Oh, take the bands off of all of
[02:02:58] Gizmo: our cigars Yes.
[02:02:59] Senator: And see if he ever
[02:03:00] Chef Ricky: has Can
[02:03:00] Rooster: we please do that? Can we...
[02:03:03] Gizmo: And here's the problem. Alright. Hold been waiting for
[02:03:05] Senator: a [unclear] revenge for years.
[02:03:07] Rooster: There's no perfect time. He will not even realize that this is the cigar that he's he's not gonna recognize the shape, the size.
[02:03:18] Gizmo: I guarantee you. Here's my... Alright. So that's my problem is the m d o two that we're gonna smoke next week. So for listeners, next week's our five-year anniversary episode.
[02:03:27] Gizmo: We're smoking a 2013 La Gloria Cubana Médaille d'Or No. 2, which is a corona, effectively, like a Lonsdale.
[02:03:36] Senator: Don't you tell him that we only had x number of MDO twos and that's an MDO6?
[02:03:42] Rooster: But how do I Okay. This is what you do. You tell him that, listen. Last week's episode, since you missed out on it, it was a stellar Plasencia. Nothing he
[02:03:51] Gizmo: I don't wanna say Plasencia. He'll know we're full
[02:03:52] Rooster: of shit. He likes Plasencia, though.
[02:03:54] Gizmo: No. He No. Doesn't. No.
[02:03:56] Bam Bam: He's not gonna
[02:03:57] Gizmo: look for that.
[02:03:57] Rooster: You figure out how of how
[02:03:59] Bam Bam: this just let me
[02:04:00] Gizmo: know art thinner size? May be
[02:04:15] Senator: better, actually. They have one similar that
[02:04:17] Rooster: would be incredible. Yes.
[02:04:19] Gizmo: Yes. The closest is gonna rate it a 10.
[02:04:22] Rooster: All right. So they have what's
[02:04:24] Gizmo: called the San Diego 46 by five and three quarters, which I think can work. It might be
[02:04:31] Rooster: a little shorter. Right?
[02:04:31] Gizmo: Yeah. Little bit. But he won't notice He
[02:04:34] Rooster: won't even notice this one. If you give him this one, he
[02:04:36] Bam Bam: won't even notice. He will.
[02:04:37] Gizmo: I'll put the other band on it.
[02:04:39] Rooster: Alright. So we'll put him in the other room.
[02:04:42] Gizmo: Where the flavors tonight were. Alright. So we're doing this? Yes. This is mandated where this is happening.
[02:04:47] Gizmo: Yes. Because I will do it if you tell me to. Yes, please. Okay.
[02:04:51] Senator: Rooster's driving the bus
[02:04:52] Rooster: at this point. And I'll take the second MDO No. 2.
[02:04:59] Gizmo: That's a great idea. All right, chef, you're up.
[02:05:03] Chef Ricky: The cigars that do the best on this podcast are the cigars where the blenders do all the work for us. This cigar was a cigar where I felt like I had to do all the work. Where I had to dig the Very philosophical.
[02:05:19] Gizmo: Your arms hurt from reaching.
[02:05:21] Chef Ricky: Where I had to, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had to dig deep to figure out what it was, you know, that was hitting me where in the right places. And it didn't come until the final third, and that might have just been because it got a little bit fuller, a little bit more concentrated.
[02:05:38] Chef Ricky: But that's a hell of a size of a cigar to get through to get to the final third, to finally enjoy something. Was it the best Plasencia we've had on this pod? Absolutely. Was it something I'd smoke again? Not unless I really had to.
[02:05:56] Chef Ricky: Would I have an issue giving it to someone else? Probably not. Because if they're a newbie or just getting into the hobby or maybe just, you know, going from a super mild cigar to something that's slightly fuller. And I say that, you know, I feel Rooster looking at me like Fuller,
[02:06:18] Rooster: what the fuck?
[02:06:19] Gizmo: Don't know what you're talking about. But,
[02:06:22] Chef Ricky: you know, I say that, you know, take it with a grain of salt. It's not so it's it's definitely not full at all. But I could see if it's a new smoker where they would find it to be somewhat of a different flavor, maybe if they were smoking Connecticut or something super mild. So yeah, I mean, me it's a seven. I think the price point in a brick and mortar is going to be ridiculous.
[02:06:46] Chef Ricky: You know, your price point is obviously that's online maybe with
[02:06:50] Gizmo: a That's a small batch
[02:06:51] Chef Ricky: offer or something. Yeah, I mean, Plasencia's in the city or any cigar lounge usually fetch a premium and it's not warranted. I'd skip the cigar. It's smokable.
[02:07:05] Gizmo: This is like paying $30 for McDonald's.
[02:07:07] Chef Ricky: Yeah, but it's work.
[02:07:08] Gizmo: It honestly is. Yeah, it's so overpriced for what it is.
[02:07:11] Chef Ricky: I agree. Yeah. So 7. Alright, Bam.
[02:07:15] Bam Bam: So I said it before, I'll say it again. You know, I don't want to completely shit on a cigar. It was smokable. The first third and second third were very mediocre. The second third I found was decent.
[02:07:32] Bam Bam: I was able to capture some sense of maple or butterscotch, but I couldn't tell which one was which. So there was a little bit of sweetness there. Kept my interest for a little while, but I think what all of you have said is right on the money. It's a mild recommend.
[02:07:49] Rooster: Is it?
[02:07:50] Bam Bam: Yeah. I mean, I'm at a seven, and that's what's Dude, seven that's crazy.
[02:07:52] Rooster: I know, but who are you recommending this cigar to?
[02:07:56] Gizmo: His enemies.
[02:07:57] Senator: Yeah. To Gizmo's father-in-law.
[02:07:58] Bam Bam: Yeah. And Pagoda.
[02:08:02] Gizmo: Dude, I can't wait for this. I can't wait.
[02:08:05] Chef Ricky: But It's gonna be amazing.
[02:08:06] Bam Bam: I don't know. You know? Just a mediocre experience.
[02:08:10] Rooster: Redemption, baby. Yeah.
[02:08:12] Chef Ricky: Pagoda is gonna be like, I'm not getting any glucose biscuit.
[02:08:16] Rooster: I'm gonna get him a pack of
[02:08:17] Bam Bam: glucose biscuit. Seven it is.
[02:08:19] Gizmo: Alright. So, boys, the formal lizard rating tonight on the Plasencia Cosecha 151 in La Tradición This is 6.6. Okay. The number of the beast tonight, not great.
[02:08:30] Senator: It's the right score?
[02:08:32] Gizmo: I just... Again, it's like, I don't understand how this brand... How are they selling cigars? Has done such a great job at marketing and selling cigars.
[02:08:44] Bam Bam: Well, that's what it is.
[02:08:45] Gizmo: Marketing. I know, but still, like, this business is a repeat business. It's like Casamigos. It's... It makes absolutely no sense to me.
[02:08:54] Gizmo: I don't understand. So, boys, a great night tonight. I forgot to compare. Let's compare the two that we paired tonight. First, the Basil Hayden's ten year.
[02:09:04] Gizmo: Let's compare that to the Basil Hayden's original bourbon we did on episode 73. That scored a six. So tonight at an eight. Wow. Wow.
[02:09:12] Gizmo: That was two full points.
[02:09:13] Bam Bam: Amazing.
[02:09:14] Gizmo: Higher than the other. And then, of course, Plasencia boys. The first one we did on episode 91 was the Alma Fuerte Generación V scored a six. And then on episode 226, the Alma del Cielo Boreal scored a 7.3.
[02:09:33] Bam Bam: Oh, that's the star.
[02:09:35] Gizmo: So that's the star of the show right now. I don't remember either of them in detail, but that is Well not a great performance.
[02:09:42] Bam Bam: Three strikes, they're out. We won't ever have to do it Hopefully. Until you run at another.
[02:09:47] Gizmo: Yeah. I'll find one. So boys, what a great night tonight. We have to congratulate again our Lizard of the Week, Lizard Chimera. Thanks to them for sending that great email and prompting that discussion about strength and nicotine and all that.
[02:10:02] Gizmo: And thanks to all of the Lizards who contribute to the show. Please, of course, keep your emails, voice memos, DMs, Reddit comments, YouTube comments, whatever you want. Please keep them coming. We love to hear from you, and we wanna hear from you. Of course, we have to thank our friends at Bond Roberts who provide all of our Lizards of the Week with a 10 count box of cigars.
[02:10:20] Gizmo: They're really, really great. The Bond Roberts Robusto is coming soon. Bam, go ahead. Don't worry about that.
[02:10:26] Chef Ricky: Bam's trying to get a head start. So he could smoke a real cigar.
[02:10:30] Gizmo: Bam is emptying ashtrays right now. Bam's gotta catch a flight to bed. Correct.
[02:10:36] Chef Ricky: He's burying all the evidence. And boys, we have
[02:10:39] Gizmo: to thank smallbatchcigar.com. We got these cigars from them. They came fast. They came great. Unfortunately, the cigars did not perform well.
[02:10:46] Gizmo: But use our code LIZARD15 at smallbatchcigar.com and pick up some great cigars from them. Check out their samplers. Check out their Cigars of the Month Club. They do a great, great job over there. And like a listener prompted us tonight, we're gonna do another sampler very soon.
[02:11:01] Gizmo: So look out for that. With three Plasencia's. Correct. Drew Estate boys, the rebirth of cigars. Register now for their thirtieth anniversary celebration and their rewards program at de30rewards.com.
[02:11:14] Gizmo: Earn yourself cool swag for doing what you already do, Smoke. And finally, our presenting sponsor, Fabrica 5, the best. fabrica005.com. Use our code LIZARDPOD for 10% off your entire order. I said this last week, the brand new Maduro Churchill N8 is available.
[02:11:33] Gizmo: Classic 47 by seven. Rob says it's the closest thing he, quote, can imagine to a chocolate croissant in cigar form, end quote. Pretty powerful. That's crazy. fabrica005.com.
[02:11:45] Gizmo: Use our code LIZARDPOD. Subscribe to the newsletter. And subscribe to the... Thank you, Rooster. Subscribe to the newsletter.
[02:11:53] Gizmo: Go to our website, loungelizardspod.com. Go to the bottom on the right. Put your email in. That's all you have to do to win free stuff. We're gonna do it every single month moving forward, and you can win free stuff.
[02:12:05] Gizmo: It's gonna be awesome.
[02:12:06] Chef Ricky: And follow us on Instagram and leave a positive review.
[02:12:09] Gizmo: There you go.
[02:12:10] Chef Ricky: On Yelp. On Yelp, Apple Podcasts.
[02:12:13] Gizmo: Honestly, for Lizards who are still with us right now after the rating, Yeah. We really could use even more ratings on Apple Music or Apple Podcasts on Spotify. Yep. It's very simple to do and easy. You're anonymous.
[02:12:27] Gizmo: You're faceless. Please tell us what you think. It's really, really helpful for the program to see those numbers and those ratings go up. So for everybody who's already done it, thank you. And for everybody who's about to do it because of this, thank you.
[02:12:39] Gizmo: We really, really appreciate you. One more time tonight, boys. A great night. The Basil Hayden's ten-year-old Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey was an 8.0, and the Plasencia Cosecha 151 in La Tradición is 6.6. Love you, Pagoda.
[02:12:53] Gizmo: And we are on to our five-year anniversary episode next week, boys. We have just figured out an incredible plan. I feel bad for Pagoda already. I have to get my laughs out now so I don't ruin it, but that revenge has been coming... What is that?
[02:13:08] Gizmo: Three years?
[02:13:09] Rooster: It's not a revenge.
[02:13:10] Chef Ricky: This doesn't count. Alright,
[02:13:15] Gizmo: boys. A great night, and we'll see everybody next week. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, loungelizardspod.com.
[02:13:26] Gizmo: That's loungelizardspod.com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, if you wanna reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking, email us. hello@loungelizardspod.com. You can also find us on Instagram at @loungelizardspod.
[02:13:45] Gizmo: We really appreciate your time, and we'll, we'll see you next week.