hol+ with Dr. Taz MD | The Future of Medicine is Holistic

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Tamsen Fadal was an experienced news anchor when heart palpitations, anxiety, insomnia, and severe brain fog left her on the bathroom floor of her newsroom. Despite spending decades in the media, she had no idea she was experiencing menopause.

In this episode of hol+ with Dr. Taz MD, Tamsen shares how that frightening experience led her to investigate why so many women remain unprepared for perimenopause and menopause.

Tamsen reflects on losing her mother to breast cancer and later realizing that her mother had experienced medical menopause following chemotherapy and a double mastectomy. Nearly 28 years separated their experiences, yet both women suffered without the information or support they needed.

That realization inspired Tamsen to step away from a three-decade career in television journalism and devote her work to menopause education and advocacy. She explains how social media revealed the scale of the problem and gave women a place to share symptoms and experiences that had been ignored or dismissed.

Dr. Taz and Tamsen also discuss the confusion surrounding hormone replacement therapy, the importance of personalized care, barriers to finding informed doctors, and the role telehealth may play in improving access. They explore how brain fog, anxiety, sleep disruption, and other symptoms can affect women’s confidence, careers, relationships, and sense of identity.
Tamsen also shares the story behind The M Factor: Shredding the Silence on Menopause. After being told there was no audience for a menopause documentary, Tamsen and her partners self-funded the project, brought together leading experts and women’s personal stories, and ultimately secured national distribution through PBS.

The conversation turns toward reclaiming menopause as a powerful stage of life rather than a period of invisibility or decline. Tamsen discusses her book, How to Menopause, and the practical lifestyle changes that have helped her take better care of herself at 54.

In this episode:
  • Tamsen’s frightening menopause experience in the newsroom
  • Heart palpitations, anxiety, insomnia, and severe brain fog
  • Why she did not recognize her symptoms as menopause
  • Her mother’s experience with medically induced menopause
  • Why menopause care has changed so little across generations
  • Leaving a three-decade journalism career for women’s advocacy
  • The fear and financial uncertainty of making a major midlife change
  • How social media helped women begin sharing their experiences
  • Creating The M Factor: Shredding the Silence on Menopause
  • Being told there was no audience for a menopause documentary
  • Why hormone replacement therapy remains confusing
  • The need for personalized menopause treatment
  • What to do when a doctor dismisses or minimizes your symptoms
  • Improving menopause research, education, and access to care
  • How menopause symptoms affect women in the workplace
  • Reframing menopause as a powerful new stage of life
  • The sleep, exercise, protein, stress, and alcohol changes helping Tamsen at 54
About Tamsen Fadal:
Tamsen Fadal is a 13-time Emmy-winning journalist, New York Times bestselling author, documentary filmmaker, podcaster, and menopause advocate.

After more than three decades as a television journalist and news anchor, she shifted her work toward helping women understand perimenopause, menopause, and life beyond midlife.

Tamsen is the author of How to Menopause: Take Charge of Your Health, Reclaim Your Life, and Feel Even Better Than Before. She is also a co-producer and executive producer of The M Factor: Shredding the Silence on Menopause, a documentary exploring the medical, emotional, social, and workplace effects of menopause.

Connect with Tamsen Fadal:
https://www.tamsenfadal.com/
https://www.instagram.com/tamsenfadal/
Get How to Menopause:
https://www.howtomenopause.com/
Watch The M Factor:
https://themfactorfilm.com/

About Dr. Taz:
Dr. Tasneem Bhatia (Dr. Taz) is a triple board-certified integrative medicine physician, bestselling author, and founder of hol+, a multi-location integrative medicine practice.
Learn more: https://doctortaz.com/about

Stay Connected:
Connect further with hol+ at https://holplus.co/ and don’t forget to like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell to stay updated on future episodes of hol+.

Book a Hol+ Consultation:
https://holplus.co/locations/virtual/
Follow Dr. Taz on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/drtazmd/
https://www.instagram.com/liveholplus/
Subscribe to the audio podcast:
https://holplus.transistor.fm/subscribe
Subscribe to the video podcast:
https://www.youtube.com/@DrTazMD/podcasts

Produced by https://ClipGrowth.com (Producer: Pat Gostek)

Creators and Guests

Host
Dr. Taz Bhatia MD
Dr. Taz Bhatia is a triple-board-certified integrative medicine physician and founder of hol+, where she brings together science, spirit and the human experience to deliver holistic, whole-person care.
Producer
Pat Gostek
Founder of ClipGrowth.com - End-to-End YouTube, Podcast & Clips Management (you just record).

What is hol+ with Dr. Taz MD | The Future of Medicine is Holistic?

hol+ with Dr. Taz MD is redefining modern medicine through a comprehensive, evidence-based holistic approach; integrating functional medicine, integrative medicine, and time-tested healing systems to treat the whole human, not just symptoms.

Hosted by Dr. Tasneem Bhatia (Dr. Taz), triple board-certified physician in integrative, functional, and holistic medicine, bestselling Penguin Random House author, and founder of hol+; a comprehensive evidence-based holistic medicine platform with clinics in Atlanta, New York City, and Los Angeles, and virtual care available nationwide.

At the heart of hol+ is a revolutionary framework: the Five Body Map- physical, mental, emotional, energetic, and social/community bodies that create whole health. This whole-human approach connects hormone imbalances, gut dysfunction, microinflammation, cortisol dysregulation, metabolic disease, autoimmune conditions, perimenopause, and stress-driven illness to the full spectrum of who we are; body, mind, and spirit.

Each episode explores Dr. Taz’s original clinical frameworks ;The Cortisol Loop, Microinflammation, and The Invisible Load alongside conversations with leading experts, celebrities, and thought leaders including Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, Katherine Schwarzenegger, Cameron Mathison, Carol Alt, Jane Seymour, Tamsen Fadal, and Kris Carr.

Topics include hormone health, gut health, GLP-1 and metabolic therapy, thyroid dysfunction, weight loss, inflammation, autoimmune disease, mental and emotional wellness, energetic health, and the future of holistic medicine.

This is the show where science and spirit converge- driving health, happiness, relationships, and family ecosystems.

Want to go deeper? Join Dr. Taz’s private community, the hol+ Circle ; medicine beyond the exam room. (holplus.co/circle)

A 2025 Webby Award honoree, recognized alongside the Mel Robbins Podcast in the 29th Annual Webby Awards, hol+ is built on the foundation of Super Woman Wellness, which surpassed 1 million downloads over 8 years.

This is medicine beyond the exam room. Welcome to hol+

[00:00:00] Dr. Taz: What's happening with women in menopause?
[00:00:02] Tamsen Fadal: How is none of this information out there? Why aren't [00:00:05] people talking about it? How do we get information? What do we do? Why do we think hormones are doing? You know, what, what do we do? [00:00:10] There's a lot we don't know, but I definitely know what my end goal is. My end goal is, is to close some of those gaps when it [00:00:15] comes to research dollars, to access to information, to making sure that women know what's going [00:00:20] on, and to making sure the generation coming up behind us knows what, what's going on.
[00:00:23] Tamsen Fadal: Lifestyle changes are gonna be [00:00:25] important. Supplementation might be important. Yeah. Exercise, under lifestyle, uh, sleep, [00:00:30] stress, you know, all those different things, you know, how we work out.
[00:00:33] Dr. Taz: Really, the answer is in [00:00:35] personalization. Mm-hmm. 100%. Please join me in welcoming Tamsen [00:00:40] Fadal, an Emmy Award-winning journalist, author, documentary filmmaker, and social [00:00:45] media's midlife mentor. After more than three decades as a news anchor, Tamsen [00:00:50] made the bold decision to pivot her career towards women's advocacy.
[00:00:53] Dr. Taz: From the bedroom [00:00:55] to the boardroom, she serves as a best friend and a guide, a one-stop resource [00:01:00] for everything women need to thrive during midlife and beyond. Her latest book, [00:01:05] How to Menopause: Take Charge of Your Health, Reclaim Your Life, and Feel Even Better Than [00:01:10] Before, will be available in March of 2025.
[00:01:13] Dr. Taz: She's also the creator and the [00:01:15] producer of the groundbreaking PBS documentary, The M Factor: Shredding the [00:01:20] Silence on Menopause, which has galvanized a global movement. Welcome [00:01:25] to the show, Tamsen. Tamsen, welcome to the show. I have [00:01:30] been such a fan of yours. I think I have watched you for a long period of time, and then as you've [00:01:35] sort of stepped into this menopause space, just so impressed with your [00:01:40] drive and your advocacy to really make a difference for women's health.
[00:01:43] Dr. Taz: I've gotta ask- Thank you ... you [00:01:45] know, why women's health? Why menopause? What made that become the [00:01:50] focus of a lot of your work?
[00:01:51] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. It's a, it's a question I ask myself sometimes- ... because I, I am, am [00:01:55] here, and it's, it seems like it was a, a given all along. You know, I lost, I lost my mother at a very [00:02:00] early age and to breast canc- to breast cancer.
[00:02:02] Tamsen Fadal: Mm. And that was always- Sorry ... um, something that, that, that hung [00:02:05] over my family and me, and I was always aware of it. But it wasn't until I actually had my own personal [00:02:10] experience with menopause and not knowing what I was experiencing that I realized there had been no [00:02:15] progress from the time that I lost my mother- Mm
[00:02:17] Tamsen Fadal: who had gone through a medical menopause as a [00:02:20] result of, uh, double mastectomy and chemotherapy, to where I was [00:02:25] today, you know, uh, a few years ago, landing on the bathroom floor of the news studio, not knowing [00:02:30] what was going on. Mm. Heart racing out of control, lots of brain fog, lots of anxiety, [00:02:35] and not sleeping, and all these years had gone by without a [00:02:40] conversation.
[00:02:40] Tamsen Fadal: I'd never had the conversation, and as a member of the media-
[00:02:43] Dr. Taz: Yeah ...
[00:02:43] Tamsen Fadal: I'd not had the [00:02:45] conversation to even talk to viewers about. So it was kind of this double whammy, and so [00:02:50] I, you know, I started k- Doing research, getting deeper and deeper into [00:02:55] understanding where there are so many gaps, and saying like, "I don't know what I can do as one person, but I [00:03:00] know what I can do in terms of, as being a, uh, somebody that asks a lot of questions."
[00:03:03] Tamsen Fadal: As a journalist, it's been my career [00:03:05] my whole life. It wound up, this is probably my most personal story that I'll, uh, I [00:03:10] think I'll ever tell- That you have to tell. Amazing ... to, to help s- women in whatever way I can, whatever I can.
[00:03:14] Dr. Taz: So [00:03:15] how many years is it, if you don't mind me asking- Mm-hmm ... between when you lost your mom [00:03:20] and your me- menopause experience?
[00:03:22] Dr. Taz: Yeah. How much time elapsed between that?
[00:03:24] Tamsen Fadal: Um, that, [00:03:25] I lost my mom in 1990 and, um, and I, I had [00:03:30] my, uh, incident happen in, um... I'm so bad with numbers, I'm sorry. I was 48 years old, [00:03:35] so it was about 28 years.
[00:03:36] Dr. Taz: 28 years. About 28 years, yeah. So in 28 years- [00:03:40] Your mom's experience, your experience- Mm-hmm ... very comparable.
[00:03:43] Tamsen Fadal: Very comparable. Yeah. I [00:03:45] mean, I, she never talked about it. I just remembered, and this is how I realized that she was going through it, [00:03:50] um, you know, a few years after, uh, what happened to me and I started talking about it on social. Obviously, we [00:03:55] had very different ways of being able to communicate- Right
[00:03:57] Tamsen Fadal: what was going on. Right. But I, um, I look back [00:04:00] and I remembered there was one particular trip to Lake George over the summer where she had gone through her [00:04:05] first, um, surgery, and she had gone through radiation, chemotherapy. And then I realized that she [00:04:10] was sweating, pouring sweat all the time. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:04:11] Tamsen Fadal: She would have water, and she'd be throwing it on her chest. And it was always a, [00:04:15] kind of a source of... She'd laugh about it, and the family would laugh about it. Right. And I, I remember [00:04:20] thinking about it one day, and I started crying. I was like, "Oh, my gosh." She was suffering. She was suffering, but she was trying to [00:04:25] laugh about it because m- I don't even know if she knew what was going on.
[00:04:28] Tamsen Fadal: Mm-hmm. I don't know if she knew she went into a, [00:04:30] a, an induced menopause at that time. So, um, it makes me really [00:04:35] sad to think about. Yeah. But it also makes me know that that's the reason for this. And so whether [00:04:40] she is watching or guided me- Oh, I love that. Yeah ... or it just kind of all happened this way, I feel [00:04:45] like there's a reason that I'm, I'm here doing this.
[00:04:47] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. 'Cause it wasn't a plan.
[00:04:48] Dr. Taz: It, I know. And same for me. [00:04:50] Like, I entered this space without a plan or, or a vision or anything like that. It was really about my own [00:04:55] health. And my hormone story started in my 20s, but it's so interesting to me [00:05:00] in the same 25 years or so that- Yeah ... I've been seeing patients and practicing, [00:05:05] like, not much has changed.
[00:05:06] Dr. Taz: It's incredible. You know, when it comes to what their experiences have been. And I think of [00:05:10] my own mom, and I had shared this story recently too, that when she was my [00:05:15] age, you know, she had a lot of mental health stuff going on, you know, a lot of anger- Mm-hmm ... a lot of [00:05:20] rage, you know, high, low, all over the place, which really disrupted our family- Sure.
[00:05:24] Dr. Taz: Sure ... you know, [00:05:25] and really impacted our experience growing up as young girls and then going off to college and [00:05:30] things like that. And in hindsight, she was suffering. Sure. You know? Sure. She was probably going through [00:05:35] menopause and having and experiencing the loss of estrogen and progesterone- Mm-hmm ... and all the things that women experience at [00:05:40] this phase of their life.
[00:05:40] Dr. Taz: So I feel for the women of prior generations- Yeah. Me too. Me too ... with the [00:05:45] lack of access and the lack of knowledge. And unfortunately, we still have a lot of work to [00:05:50] do today. When you look at the landscape of today- around hormone health- Mm-hmm ... and [00:05:55] menopause, what do you see?
[00:05:56] Tamsen Fadal: Um, I fe- see incredible doctors like you- Yeah
[00:05:59] Tamsen Fadal: [00:06:00] not afraid to step up and talk. I see women louder than [00:06:05] ever before- It's incredible ... embracing this conversation. And I actually see us, uh, [00:06:10] really banding together, which I really like. I've never been, uh... Like, I was a journalist for a [00:06:15] very long time, and it was really just kind of me and the story or the people that we were helping.
[00:06:19] Tamsen Fadal: I've never [00:06:20] seen, I've never been surrounded by a community. It gets me almost emotional 'cause I, I've never been surrounded by a [00:06:25] community of women like you, of the other women we know within this space that are really working to help each other, like [00:06:30] tirelessly, just wanting to help one woman at a time.
[00:06:34] Tamsen Fadal: And it's making [00:06:35] a difference. We see it making a difference. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We see women coming together, communities coming together, [00:06:40] women talking about it, um, books being written about it, you know, conferences being had [00:06:45] about it. And so it, it, m- it's a big deal. And so I, I see that change, but
[00:06:49] Dr. Taz: I [00:06:50] also know there's so much lacking in it.
[00:06:52] Dr. Taz: Much to do, yeah. So despite everything we're doing, we still need [00:06:55] more. We do. And, you know, it's so interesting. Yeah, I've been following you for a while, and I've known about your work for a [00:07:00] while, you know, definitely your work in journalism. And I think I remember your [00:07:05] announcement on social the day you said you were stepping away- Uh-huh
[00:07:08] Dr. Taz: from your career in [00:07:10] journalism, which I think spanned over 30 years- Yeah ... if I'm correct. Right? Yeah. You know, what prompted [00:07:15] that decision? And maybe paint what those 30 years of [00:07:20] journalism were like. What were the highs? What were the lows? Oh, yeah. You know, and what made you step away?
[00:07:23] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. I, I mean, [00:07:25] journalism is my love.
[00:07:26] Tamsen Fadal: I, I, I really enjoy storytelling. I really, uh, enjoy [00:07:30] bridging the audience. Um, and, you know, I had had an incredible f- run and [00:07:35] career, and I did all sorts of things. I was able to tell stories within communities. That was [00:07:40] really the big part of it, from New York to, before that, Orlando, Florida- Hmm ... West Virginia, Philadelphia.
[00:07:44] Tamsen Fadal: I [00:07:45] mean, I'd been all over. When you're a young reporter, you know- Right ... you move different markets. Right. And so I [00:07:50] was able to do that and, and, and really be embraced by a lot of amazing communities. Um, I did [00:07:55] things like chase hurricanes. I did things like I was in- You did? I did, yes.
[00:07:58] Dr. Taz: I didn't know that.
[00:07:59] Dr. Taz: That
[00:07:59] Tamsen Fadal: [00:08:00] one I didn't know. I was one
[00:08:01] Dr. Taz: of the ones clinging to the
[00:08:01] Tamsen Fadal: stop sign.
[00:08:02] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:08:02] Tamsen Fadal: Um, and, uh, [00:08:05] would go to, you know, would, would go where stories were. And, you know, one of, one of the larger [00:08:10] stories that I did go, I was embedded in Afghanistan- Oh, yes ... for a, for a period of time, [00:08:15] um, telling the stories of, you know, of, uh, our, our soldiers there.
[00:08:19] Tamsen Fadal: [00:08:20] And, and so that was really an incredible- probably a, a [00:08:25] life-changing experience for me, not understanding all of that, um, as well as I did once I [00:08:30] left. So that was, um, an incredible moment. And then, you know, I, I spent the last 15 years or so [00:08:35] anchoring the news, and so those would be story of the day. Right.
[00:08:37] Tamsen Fadal: So something would happen like a, a Hurricane Sandy [00:08:40] and the impact that it would have, or, uh, 9/11 and the impact it would have. Mm. [00:08:45] And the stories and the people, and you get close to people and, you know, you hurt with people and cry with [00:08:50] people and, you know, you have stories where you laugh with people.
[00:08:52] Tamsen Fadal: So I w- I was really grateful for, for all [00:08:55] that. For all that experience. And stepping away was, um, it wa- it was a long time in coming. Like, it didn't happen [00:09:00] overnight, but I knew that this next area, I just felt this pull of like I have [00:09:05] to tell this story. So every day I'd go into work, and all I could do was think about this, so I'd be like, "What if we do [00:09:10] a menopause story today?"
[00:09:11] Tamsen Fadal: "What if we do a woman in midlife story today?" They're like, "Enough." [00:09:15] And so, uh, they were really grateful and really just amazing, uh, about [00:09:20] it all. You know, they, they, they let me leave earlier than I was going to, and I, you know, I still go [00:09:25] back from time to time, so it's really a nice- To see them. Yeah.
[00:09:27] Tamsen Fadal: That's amazing. Yeah. They knew it was really important to me, so it was really nice [00:09:30] to be able to say great things about your former bosses, you know? I, I like
[00:09:33] Dr. Taz: that. Well, I think there's such a [00:09:35] story, speaking of stories, just in that. I think it takes a lot of courage to step away- Oh, thanks ... from something you've done for [00:09:40] a long period of time.
[00:09:41] Dr. Taz: You know, what was your first step? What sort of [00:09:45] motivated you- Yeah ... to move away from that? Were you scared at all? Oh, petrified. You know, and- I'm still scared when
[00:09:49] Tamsen Fadal: I think [00:09:50] about what I did ...
[00:09:50] Dr. Taz: I, when we think about women in menopause too, or just this period of life in general, it [00:09:55] is an opportunity to take those leaps- Oh
[00:09:57] Dr. Taz: and to jump, right? Yeah. And do that which [00:10:00] maybe you never had a chance to do before. You know, but a lot of times people are held back [00:10:05] by fear or- Sure ... scared that they're gonna fail, you know? Sure. What, how did you have that [00:10:10] conviction that this is the way to go?
[00:10:11] Tamsen Fadal: I think all of it, fear, you know, finances, [00:10:15] failure, like every F you can think of, you know?
[00:10:17] Tamsen Fadal: Um, but I, uh, you know, I made a [00:10:20] plan. Uh, there's no question, like I had to do that. It was a, it was a few years in advance that I'd, like, started [00:10:25] really thinking about it. And I started, um- talking about it all the time. [00:10:30] Not leaving necessarily, but talking about what I wanted to talk about next. And I think what really [00:10:35] showed me the, um, the reason for it, or the reason for this conversation, was social media.
[00:10:39] Tamsen Fadal: Mm-hmm. I mean, [00:10:40] social media did a lot- Huge, yeah ... to really, um, open that world up to me, open the [00:10:45] community up to me, um, you know, show me what was needed. And so that was, that was a very, [00:10:50] um, affirmational in terms of, of what I did and what people wanted. And then when I started [00:10:55] doing, doing the work on the, on, uh, the documentary that we released- Mm-hmm
[00:10:58] Tamsen Fadal: a f- a- a few months ago, I [00:11:00] really knew that, like, that's where I wanted to be. It's affirming. Yeah. Yeah, so I made the plan of what, you know, what I wanted to [00:11:05] do, what I wanted it to look like. Look, I still every day, every day's a little bit different as an entrepreneur. Like, I'm never [00:11:10] 100% sure what's gonna happen, but I definitely know what my end goal is.
[00:11:13] Tamsen Fadal: My end goal is, is to close some of [00:11:15] those gaps when it comes to research dollars- Mm ... to access to information, to making sure that [00:11:20] women know what's going on and to making sure the generation coming up behind us knows what's going o- what's going [00:11:25] on. So I know that's my end goal- Right ... is to leave that as what I...
[00:11:28] Tamsen Fadal: You know, I don't have daughters of my [00:11:30] own. Your legacy. Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. I don't have daughters of my own, so I just kinda feel like all of these are my daughters - Oh, I love that ... [00:11:35] that I wanna, you know, to shepherd into this next area and not, and not suffer like that. [00:11:40] And, um, if I can do that, that's, you know, feel pretty cool about that.
[00:11:43] Dr. Taz: That's amazing.
[00:11:44] Tamsen Fadal: Feel, it feels [00:11:45] good that, you know... It feels- It's
[00:11:46] Dr. Taz: amazing ... it feels pretty good. Let's talk about the documentary.
[00:11:48] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah.
[00:11:48] Dr. Taz: Tell us a little bit about it, [00:11:50] what it's, uh, what it's called. It just released- Yeah ... a couple months ago. Uh, how that was born. Yeah. You know, I [00:11:55] can't imagine setting out to make a documentary, and I just wanna get behind, like, the [00:12:00] creative mind a little bit.
[00:12:00] Dr. Taz: Yeah. What did you do first? What did you do second? How'd you pull
[00:12:03] Tamsen Fadal: people together? Thank you. [00:12:05] Yeah. Yeah, that... It's called The M Factor: Shredding the Silence on Menopause, and, um, my, uh, original [00:12:10] partner, Joanne, uh, LaMarca, and I, she was a former producer on the Today Show. We got [00:12:15] together- I know
[00:12:15] Dr. Taz: Joanne.
[00:12:15] Tamsen Fadal: Oh, you do?
[00:12:15] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. I know that name. Yeah, she's... Yes, for
[00:12:17] Dr. Taz: sure.
[00:12:18] Tamsen Fadal: She's a very good friend. Yeah. She's my [00:12:20] meno-sister. Um, and so we got together talking because, uh, another friend of ours [00:12:25] said, "Listen, all you guys do is talk about menopause. I am so tired- Over it ... of hearing about you talk about it. You [00:12:30] guys talk to each other.
[00:12:30] Tamsen Fadal: I'm gonna introduce you." Mm-hmm. She literally introduced us. Jo and I got on the phone. We scheduled [00:12:35] it. We actually found our date of, like, our first conversation. It was an hour and a half long.
[00:12:39] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:39] Tamsen Fadal: We, we had it [00:12:40] both on our calendar on a Zoom, and, um, we just talked about, like, how, how is none [00:12:45] of this information out there?
[00:12:46] Tamsen Fadal: I mean, this is a time almost three years ago now. Why aren't people talking about [00:12:50] it? How do we get information? What do we do? Why do we think hormones are d- you know, what, what do we do? [00:12:55] And so, um, o- you know, over the course of a few months we said, "Listen, maybe we should just see if there's some kind of [00:13:00] appetite for people wanting to learn and share."
[00:13:03] Tamsen Fadal: Uh, we, 'cause we weren't really sure if people were willing to share at [00:13:05] that point. Right, right. People weren't running around going, "I'm in perimenopause." Right. I mean, we've changed a lot in the past few years. Very [00:13:10] much,
[00:13:10] Dr. Taz: yeah.
[00:13:10] Tamsen Fadal: Um, so we went out into the middle of Times Square. We were still a little post-pandemic at the [00:13:15] time.
[00:13:15] Tamsen Fadal: People were in masks like, "What do you want?" And we'd go, you know, "Can you tell us about when you knew you were [00:13:20] in menopause?" And, um, we, we talked- Would they actually talk to you? Some did and some didn't. Okay. A lot of [00:13:25] women were like, "I don't even remember it." Others... Uh, I remember one sat down and she goes, "Menopause made [00:13:30] me leave my job."
[00:13:31] Tamsen Fadal: Hmm. "Because I couldn't think anymore in conferences and meetings." Oh, wow. And I went, "What?" [00:13:35]
[00:13:35] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:13:35] Tamsen Fadal: So, um, so I remember thinking, we were just like, "Wow, there's a [00:13:40] lot to go on. What do we do with this?" And we said, "Maybe we just put something together like an hour-long [00:13:45] special and put it up on YouTube." Like, we didn't know what to do.
[00:13:47] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:13:47] Tamsen Fadal: And then, um, about, [00:13:50] uh, six months later I met, uh, Denise Pines and Coby Atlas, the other two partners in this now, on the [00:13:55] West Coast. And the two of them, I, I was talking to them and, and, um, Denise has a business and she [00:14:00] said, "What are you working on?" I said, "A documentary." And she said, "So am I." I said, "What's it about?"
[00:14:03] Tamsen Fadal: She goes, "Menopause." I said, "So is mine." [00:14:05] Oh, my gosh. So we got together, we said- Yeah ... let's not compete. Right. Let's, let's join forces- Come together, yeah ... and really do [00:14:10] something really special. And, um, we did. We got a lot of nos and a lot of people [00:14:15] that, you know, we said like, "Would you ar- uh, want to air our documentary?"
[00:14:17] Tamsen Fadal: "Nope, there's no audience for it."
[00:14:19] Dr. Taz: What was the, what was the [00:14:20] pushback on that?
[00:14:20] Tamsen Fadal: There's no audience for it. Hmm. Yeah. It's a niche group. Um, [00:14:25] it's kinda depressing. People aren't gonna wanna hear about that. And so we, we felt, you know, for a [00:14:30] little while it was like a slow-going process, but we kept going out and doing the interviews with the doctors.
[00:14:34] Tamsen Fadal: And we [00:14:35] said, we wanna make sure we hit a lot of doctors. Mm-hmm. As many as we can.
[00:14:37] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:38] Tamsen Fadal: We funded it ourselves [00:14:40] because- Oh, so self-funded ... we didn't get a lot of funding- Okay ... until after, you know, it- Mm-hmm ... it, you know, the end. [00:14:45] Um- And then we wanted to g- make sure we had women's stories. And, uh, you know, a [00:14:50] real mixture of women's stories to make sure that we had diversity there in terms of, [00:14:55] um, of what women were going through, you know, the ages of what they were going through.[00:15:00]
[00:15:00] Tamsen Fadal: And so, um, we put it together and then PBS said, "We will air it." [00:15:05] Amazing, yeah. And so that was super exciting. And so it started going market to market. And then what we [00:15:10] decided to do is to be able to offer it up for the past, uh, however many months it's been now, for [00:15:15] communities to come together. And so that's what we did.
[00:15:17] Tamsen Fadal: We've licensed it out for free for communities-
[00:15:19] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ...
[00:15:19] Tamsen Fadal: um, [00:15:20] so we could have as many people be able to have conversations about it. So we've been, we've had, I [00:15:25] think, over 300 plus screenings to date in- Wow ... over 33 countries- Oh my goodness ... and growing. [00:15:30] Yeah. So we have, like we have a, a, a screening recently in, um, France.
[00:15:34] Tamsen Fadal: We had one in the [00:15:35] UK. So they've been all over the place. But the more important part, aside from seeing the [00:15:40] film, is the conversation happening afterwards. So we- What's the
[00:15:42] Dr. Taz: feedback been? Yeah.
[00:15:43] Tamsen Fadal: What, what's happened after? Yeah, we just get women [00:15:45] coming together saying, you know, "We sat there for an hour and a half after the film and talked."
[00:15:48] Tamsen Fadal: And I went, "Oh, thank goodness." [00:15:50] That's incredible. Because that's, that's where we're gonna make change. That's where we're gonna make change. Where do you
[00:15:54] Dr. Taz: think... So let's [00:15:55] take the documentary, let's like chop it up into little blocks. Mm-hmm. Talk to me about the [00:16:00] research consensus.
[00:16:00] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah.
[00:16:01] Dr. Taz: Where we landed there.
[00:16:02] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. Well, there's a lot. You know, when we [00:16:05] set out to do this, we set out to do a couple of things. Answer as many questions as we could-
[00:16:08] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ...
[00:16:09] Tamsen Fadal: and give the [00:16:10] audience as many questions as they could to ask. There's a lot of confusion about hormone [00:16:15] therapy. Yes, yes. If you ask 10 doctors, you'll have 15 responses.
[00:16:17] Tamsen Fadal: Right ... maybe more. And we know that. [00:16:20] And so we, we set out to find doctors that, you know, wanted to share what they were doing with [00:16:25] patients. Either they were in the research space or that they were currently doctors that were seeing patients- Mm-hmm ... [00:16:30] because not all doctors are seeing patients at this point.
[00:16:32] Tamsen Fadal: Right, right. And, um, and some were involved in telehealth too, [00:16:35] and then we wanted to talk to workplaces as well. And, um, so you know, we talked to Dr. Lisa [00:16:40] Mosconi about her research- Mm-hmm ... into the, you know, brain- Brain health ... and menopausal brain- Right. Mm-hmm ... which is really important. We talked to Kelly [00:16:45] Casperson, who's been- Yeah
[00:16:45] Tamsen Fadal: a very, um- I've interviewed her, yep ... big voice in terms of sex and in [00:16:50] terms of testosterone. We talked to, uh, Dr. Sharon Malone- Yes. Incredible ... who's just really [00:16:55] incredible- Yep ... about taking really tough information and making it understandable, and her mission [00:17:00] is to make sure women don't suffer, and that's really, really important.
[00:17:03] Tamsen Fadal: Um, we talked to [00:17:05] Dr., uh, Mary Jane Minkin, Dr. Stephanie Fabian, Dr. Mary Claire Haver, [00:17:10] uh, Dr. Wen. We, we wanted to make sure we had a mix of the research- Mm-hmm ... and doctors that [00:17:15] were, you know, were really talking, talking on social media. And so I think at the end of the day, the consensus [00:17:20] for, you know, the majority of our doctors is really understanding hormone therapy, [00:17:25] explaining that, why they're, why they're recommending it to patients, what they're saying if patients are [00:17:30] not at least being offered the conversation about it, and making sure that everybody knows that their [00:17:35] experience is gonna be different.
[00:17:36] Tamsen Fadal: You know? Yeah. I think that's the key. What's gonna be good for you and good for me- Personalizing ... is gonna be different. Yes. If my mom [00:17:40] were alive today, she wouldn't be a candidate for hormone therapy. Right. So does she get left out of the conversation? And [00:17:45] so it was really important for us to make sure that those women are not left out of the conversation, that lifestyle changes are gonna be [00:17:50] important.
[00:17:50] Tamsen Fadal: Supplementation might be important. Yeah. You know, exercise, under [00:17:55] lifestyle, uh, sleep, stress, you know, all those different things. You know, how we work out. There's a [00:18:00] lot we don't know. There's a, a thousand percent
[00:18:02] Dr. Taz: a lot we don't know. So much work to do still, and you know, I can speak from my [00:18:05] perspective of seeing patients- Sure
[00:18:06] Dr. Taz: and working on this over and over again, that really the answer is [00:18:10] in personalization. 100%. It's not, it's not a one-size-fits-all. It's not HRT for all. Nope. It's [00:18:15] not none for anyone. Nope. I loved meeting and talking to Sharon Malone. Yeah, she's great. You know, she's [00:18:20] got this, like, 30, 35-year perspective- Yeah
[00:18:22] Dr. Taz: on the field, which is- Yeah ... so rich and [00:18:25] so fascinating. She's so good. But, but I love that, you know, all of these voices were highlighted. [00:18:30] But that's the research part, maybe even a little bit of the clinical part. Sure. I actually [00:18:35] have a clinical question- Yeah ... because-
[00:18:36] Tamsen Fadal: I hope I can answer it. I don't know.
[00:18:37] Tamsen Fadal: I'm not a doctor.
[00:18:37] Dr. Taz: Well, no. It's, it's more like looking at the [00:18:40] landscape. Yeah. Right? Because I know y- you interviewed some of the best and brightest in the field. [00:18:45] Is that conversation happening for the average [00:18:50] woman- Yeah ... in an exam room across the globe? 'Cause I hear from women- Right ... all over the world [00:18:55] too.
[00:18:55] Dr. Taz: Is it happening for everybody across the globe?
[00:18:56] Tamsen Fadal: 100% no. Mm. Like, 100% no. And that, [00:19:00] that was really for... That's, you know, that was one of the other reasons for the film, is that not [00:19:05] only that, you know, we need s- we need as a society so many answers, but [00:19:10] women need answers as to what to say if the doctor is not having a conversation, or if they say, [00:19:15] "Listen, this is just something all women go through."
[00:19:17] Tamsen Fadal: Right. You know, uh, or don't give them any kind of [00:19:20] conversation about suffering. And listen, I know that you can't expect your doctor to [00:19:25] know everything, but I do feel like it- At least a conversation ... at least a conversation, and [00:19:30] not to keep putting the onus back on the woman to go in there- Right ... and have to say like, "Here's the [00:19:35] research study that I found."
[00:19:36] Tamsen Fadal: Right. But unfortunately, that's where we are right now in a lotta different ways. I'm [00:19:40] grateful that there are doctors like you, like the doctors in the film, that are u- unafraid to [00:19:45] speak up, and are bold and brave about doing that, and not saying, "Uh, this is all we know and this is [00:19:50] where it's gonna stop," because that's not- That's not the answer
[00:19:53] Tamsen Fadal: we, we can't do that. Yeah, that's not the answer. I've been to DC now [00:19:55] three, four times, um, because we need more money. Right. We need, we need more research. We need, [00:20:00] uh, you know, and we need the media also to take whatever- To talk, yeah ... research and what studies. So [00:20:05] that's where I kinda feel my role, you know, s- come, comes into all this, is being a, a, a loud voice.
[00:20:09] Dr. Taz: Well, [00:20:10] let's talk about DC. I actually wanted to ask you that question. Yeah. Like, on the political front, on the advocacy front, on the [00:20:15] legislative front. Some would say we're in a dark era Mm-hmm ... for women's health. What's [00:20:20] happening with women in menopause? Where's the res- Yeah ... what's happening with research funding and clinical [00:20:25] funding too?
[00:20:25] Dr. Taz: Because I feel like you can have research-
[00:20:27] Tamsen Fadal: Right ...
[00:20:27] Dr. Taz: but you have to do the clinical work too. 100%. 'Cause [00:20:30] sometimes what's happening in the lab doesn't replicate- It doesn't translate always ... when you're dealing with a human being- Yeah ... who [00:20:35] has a personality and all this other stuff going on with them, so.
[00:20:37] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah, all those things that really matter. Yeah, yeah. Um, [00:20:40] DC, you know, we went about a m- uh, maybe th- maybe a few weeks ago we went, and um, we met with one of [00:20:45] the senators there because they're back to introducing a bipartisan bill, which I think is really [00:20:50] exciting, and that's what we wanna see. I mean, that's to go after money.
[00:20:52] Tamsen Fadal: That's to go after even public service announcements- Mm-hmm ... to [00:20:55] make sure that women are aware of what's going on. That's to go after research dollars. So that's an [00:21:00] exciting thing for me. There were a couple, there were like maybe three different bills aside from that, that have been [00:21:05] discussed. But I think, you know, if we're gonna have to, we go back to the drawing board in a lot of different ways of figuring out, you know, [00:21:10] what we do, but I don't, this conversation's nowhere near not happening.
[00:21:13] Tamsen Fadal: And I think when we see, [00:21:15] um... You know, what I always say is like, menopause is not a partisan issue.
[00:21:19] Dr. Taz: No.
[00:21:19] Tamsen Fadal: [00:21:20] It's just not. And so that is what my, my line is, and that is what, you know, we're [00:21:25] fighting to have happen, is to make sure that we get that. And these
[00:21:27] Dr. Taz: are... And this is trying to- Uh-huh ... get money for, for research.
[00:21:29] Tamsen Fadal: For both. For- [00:21:30] Well, for research, for- Okay ... for announcements, for public announcements- Gotcha ... for awareness. I mean, think we need all of [00:21:35] that.
[00:21:35] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:21:35] Tamsen Fadal: I don- I don't know where we stop. Like, I don't, I don't know where we stop with that. We need education. We [00:21:40] need medical schools to be educated. There's so many different areas.
[00:21:43] Tamsen Fadal: You could play Whac-A-Mole with what you wanna pay attention [00:21:45] to. Totally. Right. But I think money is an important conversation and education is the important, the second important [00:21:50] conversation.
[00:21:50] Dr. Taz: And women having accessibility to the information- Of course ... I think too, right? On top of everything else. Because we've got [00:21:55] women...
[00:21:55] Dr. Taz: You know, I am so fortunate to meet women. Like, literally I'll do telehealth visits and [00:22:00] somebody's sitting in a cornfield and, you know- I know ... saying, "
[00:22:02] Tamsen Fadal: We
[00:22:02] Dr. Taz: don't have access." Isn't that amazing though? I know. It is. To be able to
[00:22:04] Tamsen Fadal: reach those [00:22:05] women.
[00:22:05] Dr. Taz: It is.
[00:22:05] Tamsen Fadal: It- I think that's such a... It's like, it's just amazing
[00:22:07] Dr. Taz: to me.
[00:22:07] Dr. Taz: It's incredible, but they're like, "We don't have anybody around here-
[00:22:09] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah ... to talk to." [00:22:10] Nobody cl- You know? So. Nobody close. Nobody within miles. Right. It's, it's unbelievable. It is. It's [00:22:15] unbelievable and that, that's so important. Mm. And, and that access is important, affordability and all those different [00:22:20] things.
[00:22:20] Dr. Taz: What we're seeing here in America Is that true internationally as well? What do you feel [00:22:25] like in the global scale? How is menopause treated? Now again, remember I'm [00:22:30] coming in with this very old perspective of holistic health, Chinese [00:22:35] medicine, Ayurvedic medicine, merging it with conventional Western medicine.
[00:22:38] Dr. Taz: But a,
[00:22:38] Tamsen Fadal: but a great perspective.
[00:22:39] Dr. Taz: A great perspective. [00:22:40] But in those litanies of medicine- Yeah ... you know, menopause was actually [00:22:45] revered. Mm-hmm. You were sort of rising- Of course ... into your own. You were becoming the- Yeah. Wise ... [00:22:50] matriarch of the family. You know, you were relied upon, your wisdom was important- Mm-hmm
[00:22:54] Dr. Taz: and valuable. [00:22:55] And it wasn't sort of this retreating and, like, hiding in a corner-
[00:22:59] Tamsen Fadal: [00:23:00] Irrelevant ...
[00:23:00] Dr. Taz: type situation. Yeah. Being invisible. Yeah. That's the word many women use. It really wasn't [00:23:05] that. The rest of the family and the rest of the culture gave you a lot of [00:23:10] importance and relevance, you know? But I'm curious, as the world has westernized, [00:23:15] right?
[00:23:15] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. And as, you know, women have entered into, you know, the working world and [00:23:20] things like that, and family looks different- Right ... is this an issue internationally? And I'm, I'm [00:23:25] curious as, as to whether you, with your screenings, have noticed this.
[00:23:27] Tamsen Fadal: Well, I feel like first of all, gosh, I wish we [00:23:30] lived in a world where, where it was like that.
[00:23:32] Tamsen Fadal: Right. Where the woman was revered and didn't feel... When I hear words [00:23:35] like invisible or irrelevant, it makes me really sad, you know? 'Cause I think about all the things that [00:23:40] that woman has to share. Right. And I, and I grew up in a family where we had, you know, a lot of the intergenerational- Right ... all [00:23:45] the time.
[00:23:45] Tamsen Fadal: So did we. So it was very That was more commonplace. Like it w- it was very [00:23:50] clear and, but I know how things have changed. Yeah. What I have found interesting, and I haven't been [00:23:55] able to visit all the different countries, I've got some of those coming up, but I have watched how these, [00:24:00] um, documentary screenings have been embraced.
[00:24:02] Tamsen Fadal: Mm-hmm. And I think that there's the same kind of thirst, you [00:24:05] know? Mm-hmm. I think that no matter where we're talking about, we had one in Lithuania not too long ago- Amazing, yeah ... you know, New Z- [00:24:10] New Zealand, Singapore. Um, so when I look at how they're embraced, I think that that thirst for the [00:24:15] conversation of women of this age, of this Gen X, you know, millen- you know, older, uh, [00:24:20] millennials are, are feeling the same way.
[00:24:21] Tamsen Fadal: Like, they feel that irrelevance. They feel that- Mm ... no one's [00:24:25] talking to them. They feel like they're suffering. I was at a screening the other night, and you know, all the rooms were around my [00:24:30] age, between 45 and 55 years old. And one hand after another, like, "My doctor told me to [00:24:35] smoke pot to get my sex- Mm
[00:24:36] Tamsen Fadal: sex life back." Yeah. "My doctor told me," but I, I was like, "What?" [00:24:40] Like, some of the, some of the... It made me really sad- Yeah ... to see how these women are treated. So I, [00:24:45] I do think there are some cultures that revere women of this age, but I think ve- I don't know, [00:24:50] very few it seems to me that I, that I've heard from.
[00:24:52] Dr. Taz: Well, I think even in- Unless- ... the more traditional ones, I think we've moved away [00:24:55] from it because- And that makes me sad- You know, because- ... because those are the ones- Yeah ... that I was
[00:24:57] Tamsen Fadal: holding on to hope.
[00:24:58] Dr. Taz: Yeah. So work [00:25:00] to be done across the board. I was holding, holding on to
[00:25:01] Tamsen Fadal: hope.
[00:25:02] Dr. Taz: For sure. Well, you know, as we think about [00:25:05] women in menopause, you know, what are their options today?
[00:25:08] Dr. Taz: Where, where do we lead [00:25:10] them? Yeah. What's the starting point? That's a good question. Is the first point just to have the conversation?
[00:25:14] Tamsen Fadal: I think the first [00:25:15] part is, um, for me, and I, I kind of always pooh-poohed this a little bit, but when I would hear people go, [00:25:20] "Oh, community's really important," I hear myself saying it constantly- Mm
[00:25:23] Tamsen Fadal: because I really [00:25:25] realize how important that community part is right now. I, I had no idea when I was younger [00:25:30] how important it would be to this day, yes, the conversation, um, [00:25:35] two, to make sure if you can't have the conversation with somebody else, like you and I sitting here isn't happening all over the country, [00:25:40] right?
[00:25:40] Tamsen Fadal: Right, right. Um, and so if you don't have that, that comfortability, you l- you know, I'm [00:25:45] gonna, I'm gonna leave here and be like, "That was such a great conversation. I'm gonna ride high all day, and I feel even more empowered," right? Right. [00:25:50] But if somebody else does, not able to do that, or they're in a corn field, or they're not able to be [00:25:55] somewhere to have it, or they don't feel comfortable, w- what do they do?
[00:25:57] Tamsen Fadal: Right. So they have to hear from all of us [00:26:00] to say, like, "Okay, you're, you're part of us now. Come on, it's okay." Join us. Have that conversation, and if you [00:26:05] don't get a response back from a doctor, I mean, telehealth I feel like they're very clear- Such a game changer ... what they have to [00:26:10] do. Yeah, yeah. Such a game changer.
[00:26:10] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. But if you're not getting that response, you have to be brave enough to move on, [00:26:15] and we have to give women that access, too, to be able to do that. Mm-hmm. We can't say, "Oh, go find five doctors. [00:26:20] Hope you can also at the same time, uh, you know, get out of work five days a week- Right ... to go run around from [00:26:25] doctor to doctor."
[00:26:25] Tamsen Fadal: So that's where I think telehealth is a big game changer. It's gonna make a difference, yeah. But, you know, we want more access for these [00:26:30] women, too.
[00:26:30] Dr. Taz: You know, you mentioned menopause in the workplace a couple of times. You know, what's happening to women in the [00:26:35] workplace? I know I hear the stories- Yeah ... from my patients.
[00:26:37] Dr. Taz: I'm sure you do. And- I'm sure you do ... you know, and it's, it's [00:26:40] really something women that could lead companies, meetings, conferences- Yeah ... all of a sudden [00:26:45] are just like I can't remember what I was supposed to say. Yeah. It's super embarrassing, you know? [00:26:50] But what's happening to women in the workplace in terms of not just we know [00:26:55] symptom-wise what's happening to them-
[00:26:56] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah
[00:26:56] Dr. Taz: but how much is work culture- Yeah ... and company [00:27:00] culture adapting to the rise in this conversation?
[00:27:04] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah, [00:27:05] I, um... You know, we did a big section of the documentary about it because we did find a, a company that was [00:27:10] implementing policy, and that was exciting. And look, every workplace is different. One person's gonna work in a [00:27:15] classroom.
[00:27:15] Tamsen Fadal: Another is gonna work behind the wheel of a, of a car. The other person is going to be in a, in a [00:27:20] C-suite. So we know that we can't say, "Okay, every- here's the policy for everybody." Right.
[00:27:23] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:27:23] Tamsen Fadal: But I think what we can [00:27:25] do in, in most, if not all, workplaces is allow there to be room for that conversation. Mm-hmm.
[00:27:29] Tamsen Fadal: [00:27:30] Allow there to be some kinda safe place for women to have at least a... I don't care if they get a [00:27:35] downloadable. I don't, I don't care what it is, but at least have a resource to be able to go to to be able to have the [00:27:40] conversation and then figure out where we go from here, whether we're talking about flexible, you know, work days, whe- or hours, [00:27:45] or whether we're talking about some type of help in the workplace.
[00:27:48] Tamsen Fadal: What we don't wanna do [00:27:50] is single women out and say like, "Oh, you can't do your job?" You have menopause, right. You have a- Yeah. Yeah. You have the menopause? [00:27:55] Right. No, no, no, no, no. We're gonna... We're not gonna... You know, you're not gonna be promoted, or you're gonna be [00:28:00] punished somehow because you can't do your job.
[00:28:02] Tamsen Fadal: Um, but I'm with you that I [00:28:05] see over and over again, and I was the same w- way. I was reading a teleprompter. I'd, I'd look at the words in [00:28:10] front of me, and I'd be like, "I know that-" I can't see that. I can't remember it. Yeah. I'd break out into this sweat and [00:28:15] then skip it, you know, 'cause I- Right ... there's nothing else to do when you're live.
[00:28:18] Tamsen Fadal: Right. And you know what else to do when you're in the middle of [00:28:20] a, a conference and can't get the word out or talking in a conversation, and I think that really [00:28:25] Hurts our self-confidence. I think, um, that it's detrimental [00:28:30] to women, which is why we want the help first so they don't even get to that stage.
[00:28:33] Tamsen Fadal: But for right now, trying to [00:28:35] help implement some of those policies w- you know, tailored, again, customized, [00:28:40] personalized to different workspaces, I think is important. I
[00:28:42] Dr. Taz: mean, I think that's just... I- I get really sad when I [00:28:45] see women retreating from
[00:28:46] Tamsen Fadal: their lives. Me too. Because in some ways, this is
[00:28:48] Dr. Taz: actually where [00:28:50] we're the strongest, right?
[00:28:51] Dr. Taz: The best time. We finally have, like, usually very good self-esteem
[00:28:54] Tamsen Fadal: [00:28:55] intact.
[00:28:55] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. We are clear about what we want, you know. But then to struggle with all this [00:29:00] noise, and then to take a step back, I think that's such a disservice to- Me too ... the community and, you know, [00:29:05] leave alone, you know, to the woman herself.
[00:29:07] Dr. Taz: I think that one of the things that I personally would love to [00:29:10] see is just more resources for women- Oh ... you know, when they're going through menopause, and less sort [00:29:15] of, you know, shame and guilt around accessing those resources. Mm-hmm. You know, I think a lot of times [00:29:20] people hear the word menopause, and it's immediate negative connotations- Yes
[00:29:23] Dr. Taz: I'm getting old. [00:29:25] But if we can somehow, here's my hope, if we can somehow take that word and [00:29:30] either rebrand it or be like, "You're about to enter the most exciting phase of your life- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... you know, [00:29:35] and here's why," I think that's something that the workplace would benefit from- Yes ... and that communities and [00:29:40] societies would benefit from too.
[00:29:41] Tamsen Fadal: I'll work on that with you.
[00:29:42] Dr. Taz: Okay, there we go. That's- that's our mission. We're done. [00:29:45] Um, but I do wanna talk about your book. Oh, yes. Because you've spent, not only do you have the doc- I mean, you've [00:29:50] done so much, first of all, for this space, which- Thank you ... everyone should thank you for. But- Thank you ... [00:29:55] but you also have a book, and that's coming out soon.
[00:29:58] Dr. Taz: Yeah. So tell us a little about that. I had too,
[00:29:59] Tamsen Fadal: I had too many words [00:30:00] left after the documentary.
[00:30:01] Dr. Taz: Too many words after the docu- I love that. I was like, "
[00:30:03] Tamsen Fadal: I
[00:30:03] Dr. Taz: have
[00:30:03] Tamsen Fadal: more." More to say. Um, [00:30:05] you know, there are so many incredible people in this space, and, um, there are so many incredible [00:30:10] resources out there. And so, you know, aside from doctors, I wanted to make sure that everything is part of this conversation- Right
[00:30:14] Tamsen Fadal: in [00:30:15] terms of lifestyle, in terms of exercise, in terms of workplace mindset. Right. [00:30:20] Dating. You know. Yeah, all of it. There's all of these things- Yeah ... we can't leave out. So s- so many doctors have written incredible [00:30:25] books like yourself, you know, that really hone in on the science and the research. So I wanted [00:30:30] to pay tribute to that and make sure that that was in there in a really actionable way, but then go beyond the [00:30:35] doctor's office and say, "Okay, there's also the lifestyle of all of this," what we do in the kitchen, what we do in the [00:30:40] bedroom, what we do in the boardroom, what we do beyond that.
[00:30:42] Tamsen Fadal: And so I, um, I was like, "Well, I don't even know what to call [00:30:45] this book," which I struggled with it for a long time. I'm like- What do I call? Hot, hotter, [00:30:50] hottest? Like, I had all these, like, I had 300 ridiculous names Hot stuff. I was like- Yeah. ... Coming in [00:30:55] Hot. When Life Gives You Hot Flashes. Yeah. I'm like, I didn't know what to do.
[00:30:57] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. And then I went, oh, this is How to [00:31:00] Menopause. Like, this is kind of what- I like that ... you can... Yeah. Thank you. I, well- I like
[00:31:04] Dr. Taz: that. It [00:31:05] was a lot of sleepless nights-
[00:31:06] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah ... it made my husband crazy, but, um, but it really was [00:31:10] that. You know, it was like, what do you do at this time? Yeah. And how do you make it a great way to, you know, like take [00:31:15] charge of your health and reclaim this part of your life- Yeah
[00:31:17] Tamsen Fadal: versus this narrative that we have been [00:31:20] told, which is to shirk back and feel invisible and be grateful to still be there [00:31:25] on the stage. You know, no. And so that was, that was why and, you know, um, [00:31:30] I was excited to be able to spend time doing it. And I, I just, I don't know, I love, uh, [00:31:35] bridging that gap between experts and audience and I think, you know, that's where the, the [00:31:40] journalist in me still keeps coming...
[00:31:41] Tamsen Fadal: I keep coming back to it. Come- That,
[00:31:43] Dr. Taz: those are your roots. I can't. Those are your roots. I keep dragging me [00:31:45] back to it.
[00:31:45] Tamsen Fadal: So in the book, tell us a little bit, like, is it
[00:31:48] Dr. Taz: like a how-to guide? Like, [00:31:50] key takeaways-
[00:31:51] Tamsen Fadal: Oh, yeah ... that type of thing? Key takeaways- Yeah ... for sure. Women's stories for sure. Okay. You know, I [00:31:55] really leaned on the community quite a bit with it to make sure that I got all stories in, 'cause I don't, I [00:32:00] don't know every experience.
[00:32:00] Tamsen Fadal: Right. And you know- Right ... if in one day you probably have 50 stories you could walk [00:32:05] away with- Absolutely, yeah ... from, from- Yeah ... patients. And so I, I reached out to the community on, [00:32:10] on social, on my email list, in our, in our Facebook groups and I said, like, every time I write [00:32:15] something I'm like, "Sex. What's going on?
[00:32:17] Tamsen Fadal: You know, what are your questions in sex? What, you know, what are some of [00:32:20] the stories, you know, that you, that you've wanted to share? What would you tell your partner if you could write [00:32:25] them a letter?" You know? So, so I wanted to make sure there was actionables and that it was easy to digest- Mm-hmm ... because [00:32:30] that's huge for me.
[00:32:30] Tamsen Fadal: I have zero attention span. And I wanted to make sure that depending on where [00:32:35] you were in this journey, you could flip to that- I don't know if you remember that book, Simple Abundance?
[00:32:39] Dr. Taz: Oh, yeah. [00:32:40]
[00:32:40] Tamsen Fadal: Do you remember that book? Oh, yeah, I
[00:32:40] Dr. Taz: love that book.
[00:32:41] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. I do, too. Yeah. And I always would have it on my bedside and I'd be like, [00:32:45] "I need this page today."
[00:32:46] Tamsen Fadal: Right, right. Whatever. Yeah. I don't know. I think it was by dates, but-
[00:32:48] Dr. Taz: Yeah ...
[00:32:48] Tamsen Fadal: um, but I always needed to, like, flip [00:32:50] to something and it was useful, and I wanted this book to do that. So I kind of br- I broke it up into parts, [00:32:55] so I made the stories actionable. I have some personal stories woven in there of my whys [00:33:00] and resources in the back so people can access those, and quizzes, and QR codes for [00:33:05] more downloadables that I couldn't fit- That's amazing
[00:33:06] Tamsen Fadal: and recipes and stuff. So- You know, it's
[00:33:08] Dr. Taz: interesting 'cause I've been definitely watching, like, the [00:33:10] hormone and the menopause stuff, and there are a lot of books- Yeah ... that have come out. Yes. And, you know, a lot of different people weighing into the [00:33:15] field. But I don't think I've seen one yet from a journalist [00:33:20] perspective.
[00:33:20] Dr. Taz: Oh, well, thank you. From a... I mean, I, I could be wrong. Thank you. But from a storyteller's perspective, [00:33:25] because I think we as clinicians are gonna tell the story from our vantage point, right? Right. Like, what we [00:33:30] see, what we've experienced. You're hearing our voice. Right, right. But my guess is that you're putting a [00:33:35] lot of voices together.
[00:33:35] Tamsen Fadal: Yes,
[00:33:36] Dr. Taz: a
[00:33:36] Tamsen Fadal: lot of voices are in it. Yeah. And I think
[00:33:37] Dr. Taz: that there's, you know, a certain, a certain gift to [00:33:40] that, for sure. Thank
[00:33:40] Tamsen Fadal: you. Thank you.
[00:33:41] Dr. Taz: How are you, 'cause... Are you okay saying how old you are?
[00:33:44] Tamsen Fadal: Oh, yeah. [00:33:45] I'm g- I'm, I just turned 54.
[00:33:47] Dr. Taz: 54, okay.
[00:33:47] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah.
[00:33:47] Dr. Taz: I was like- I was
[00:33:48] Tamsen Fadal: like, "
[00:33:48] Dr. Taz: Wait, how old am I?" I do that all the time. [00:33:50] I'm like, "Uh..."
[00:33:51] Dr. Taz: But- Talk to us about how you're taking care of yourself- Oh ... in this phase of life.
[00:33:54] Tamsen Fadal: [00:33:55] Yeah.
[00:33:55] Dr. Taz: And what's worked for you.
[00:33:56] Tamsen Fadal: Um, well, I have a couple of things 'cause I, I have seen some changes over the past [00:34:00] few years. Yeah. I'll be honest. Like, I, um, I, so d- I do hormone therapy, you know that. Mm-hmm. And [00:34:05] so that's, that was really helpful in- It's a game-changer for me
[00:34:07] Tamsen Fadal: for me. It was really a game-changer- For me, yeah ... especially with my [00:34:10] sleep. Um, I have, since I left my job, it was a year ago, I really tried to focus. I was like, [00:34:15] "Okay, you have this year, now you have no more excuses." You know, why you can't go to bed at the same time and get up at the same time- Yeah ... [00:34:20] except if you cause that.
[00:34:20] Tamsen Fadal: Are you bad about that? I was terrible about it. I am, too. I know, like, I'm not- I get in trouble. I'm not... I [00:34:25] know, my ring yells at me. Uh-huh. I have the Oura ring, it screams at me all the time. My husband goes
[00:34:27] Dr. Taz: around shutting all the lights off.
[00:34:29] Tamsen Fadal: Oh, he does? He's like, "What [00:34:30] time?" That's good. That's so good. Yeah.
[00:34:32] Tamsen Fadal: My husband doesn't 'cause he just falls asleep on the co- Yeah ... he just, like, [00:34:35] falls asleep and I go, "Oh, my gosh, I'm still working." I know, I know. And I'm like, "If he's not in bed yet, it's okay." I
[00:34:39] Dr. Taz: [00:34:40] can
[00:34:40] Tamsen Fadal: relate, yeah. Um, so those are my two biggies. And then I walk every morning. Like, I try to do- Okay ... I don't know, [00:34:45] 10,000 steps in the morning.
[00:34:46] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. And I do my phone calls during that. And so I do a lot of calls and walking, getting [00:34:50] out first time, you know, first part of the day. And then I'm trying to change [00:34:55] how I'm taking care of myself. Like, I was the sloppy sleeper- Mm-hmm ... 'cause I'm like
[00:34:59] Dr. Taz: Who needs sleep?
[00:34:59] Tamsen Fadal: I'm [00:35:00] still really cool. Sleep. I can do it for three hours.
[00:35:01] Tamsen Fadal: Yep. Fine. Yep, yep, yep. Mm-hmm. Um, I was kind of the, I'll eat whenever I'm [00:35:05] hungry and it's fine. But I really try to implement the protein thing in my, in my day, and that is work. That's, [00:35:10] that's a big one. It's like a chore. Yeah. It's not a easy, you know, thing. Um, cutting back on [00:35:15] alcohol, huge. I, I always, um, I was always like, oh, I'm, I [00:35:20] don't really care very much about alcohol and I never really have, but I enjoy my glass of wine or champagne.
[00:35:24] Tamsen Fadal: And [00:35:25] it, it really has changed. My body has changed how it deals with it.
[00:35:29] Dr. Taz: Oh, yeah.
[00:35:29] Tamsen Fadal: I [00:35:30] had a, um, glass of champagne, glass and a half of champagne the other night. We went out, I hadn't had it for a [00:35:35] while. I wa- I was sweating in the middle of the night. It was like I woke up three times. Yeah. Yeah. And I went, "
[00:35:38] Dr. Taz: What?
[00:35:38] Dr. Taz: Cool." It's not worth [00:35:40] it. This is 54.
[00:35:41] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. But
[00:35:41] Dr. Taz: I'm okay with it.
[00:35:42] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. So now I know. Um, and then how I'm s- [00:35:45] managing stress- Stress ... I think has been a big thing. Yeah, I used to think that that was just something [00:35:50] you, you know, you just deal with and you'll figure out along the way. Power up, yeah. Yeah. But I've really focused on [00:35:55] that.
[00:35:55] Tamsen Fadal: Good. And being present with people a little bit more as I'm getting older and my dad's getting older and my nephew's [00:36:00] getting... You know, my husband- What did you
[00:36:01] Dr. Taz: find your biggest physical challenge was in menopause- Yeah ... and your biggest [00:36:05] emotional challenge was in menopause?
[00:36:06] Tamsen Fadal: Oh, that's a good question. Uh, my biggest physical challenge, I think, was the brain fog.
[00:36:09] Tamsen Fadal: Mm. [00:36:10] 100%, because it really, uh, hurt my self-confidence at work. Mm. Wow. Like, it really, I felt [00:36:15] uncomfortable, um, doing a job I'd done forever. Like, nervous.
[00:36:18] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:36:18] Tamsen Fadal: Nervous. I'd get on the set and I'm like, "Just [00:36:20] get through this newscast." Really? "
[00:36:21] Dr. Taz: Just
[00:36:21] Tamsen Fadal: get this..." Yeah. Wow. A lot. And, um, [00:36:25] and you know, a part of my job was ad-libbing.
[00:36:27] Tamsen Fadal: Right. So you'd just talk like this, too- Right, mm-hmm ... about a story. And I would, didn't [00:36:30] trust myself to, like, what, what I wouldn't be able to retain or remember. And I used to be [00:36:35] the person that could talk for an hour about this, you know, table- Yeah. ... and not have a script. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know, and then I'm like, [00:36:40] "Script."
[00:36:40] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:36:40] Tamsen Fadal: Um, and then emotionally, I think, um- [00:36:45] I, I guess, you know, I look at what my mom went through, and I guess I just feel sad that [00:36:50] we're still here, but encouraged that we know we're s- we're here now and we're doing something about it.
[00:36:54] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:36:54] Tamsen Fadal: [00:36:55] And I think, I just think about that big gap of time and the suffering that went on.
[00:36:57] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:36:58] Tamsen Fadal: And a lot of the women now that I hear from, they [00:37:00] go, "I was never even offered that," or-
[00:37:01] Dr. Taz: Right ... "
[00:37:01] Tamsen Fadal: I suffered for this long," and, "Is it too late for me to do this?" and, "What can I do [00:37:05] now?" So that, I think, bothers me a lot. Still. It keeps me up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It keep- yeah, because I hear those [00:37:10] stories all the time, so it's like...
[00:37:11] Tamsen Fadal: But I feel like we're moving in the right direction.
[00:37:13] Dr. Taz: That's amazing. Yeah. Well, tell [00:37:15] us a little bit about the book and where everyone can find
[00:37:17] Tamsen Fadal: it. Yes, of course, howtomenopause.com. Some- [00:37:20] that wasn't taken. Nobody - There we go. I love that. Nobody had that. Nobody took that one. Nobody
[00:37:23] Dr. Taz: took howtomenopause.com.
[00:37:24] Tamsen Fadal: [00:37:25] Yeah. It's got perimenopause and menopause in it, obviously, both of those, especially with so many, uh, symptoms of [00:37:30] perimenopause- Yeah ... being so prevalent. And, um, I'm always @TamsenFadal, so you can find me.
[00:37:34] Dr. Taz: Amazing [00:37:35] social platform- Yes ... by the way. I love, I love you on social. Thank you. You just- I have fun ... open yourself up to all of [00:37:40]
[00:37:40] Tamsen Fadal: us.
[00:37:40] Tamsen Fadal: You're so great on social. Maybe too
[00:37:41] Dr. Taz: much. No. Maybe too much sometimes. It's incredible. It's so inspirational. I think it's [00:37:45] great. Thank you. All right, I have to leave you with one last question. Yes.
[00:37:46] Tamsen Fadal: Give it to me.
[00:37:47] Dr. Taz: What makes you whole?
[00:37:49] Tamsen Fadal: Oh, what makes me [00:37:50] whole? Yeah. My, I mean, my family makes me whole. Family.
[00:37:53] Tamsen Fadal: 100%. So, you know- I have a very- ...
[00:37:54] Dr. Taz: [00:37:55] we've had some other guests, family's
[00:37:55] Tamsen Fadal: a big
[00:37:56] Dr. Taz: one.
[00:37:56] Tamsen Fadal: Yeah. It is. Yeah. It's, I think as I've gotten older too, that would be my answer, [00:38:00] but I, you know, I lost my mom young. I still have my dad. He's 85 in- Yeah ... next month. Healthily. [00:38:05] And I feel... Yes. Wow. Yeah. Like, he want... I took him to Spain this year.
[00:38:08] Tamsen Fadal: What? He had never, he hadn't [00:38:10] been overseas- Amazing. Yeah ... in 50 years. Yeah. It was the coolest thing. So, um, [00:38:15] yeah, it's my family. Family. And my husband is just, like, he allows me to... You know, he's my big [00:38:20] cheerleader, and that's- To be you ... pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. That's a gift. He doesn't try to fight me from being who I am.
[00:38:24] Dr. Taz: That's a, such a gift. He
[00:38:24] Tamsen Fadal: [00:38:25] might want to, but he doesn't. Yeah.
[00:38:26] Dr. Taz: My, mine tried and failed. Yeah.
[00:38:29] Tamsen Fadal: I [00:38:30]
[00:38:30] Dr. Taz: was gonna
[00:38:30] Tamsen Fadal: say, I, mine just keeps it inside. I know.
[00:38:31] Dr. Taz: So sorry, sweetie. Anyhow, well, it's been such a joy- Oh, I love this. [00:38:35] Thank you ... and such a pleasure. I have loved watching you, learning about your career. Thank you.
[00:38:38] Dr. Taz: Well, back at you. And then love to [00:38:40] see all your energy sort of channeled in this space, which women really need. Thank you. So thank you.
[00:38:43] Tamsen Fadal: Thanks for what
[00:38:44] Dr. Taz: you do for women every day. And thank you for being [00:38:45] here. Thank you.
[00:38:47] Dr. Taz: Thank you so much for listening and watching today's [00:38:50] episode of Whole+. Be sure to share this episode with your friends and family.
[00:38:53] Dr. Taz: And if you haven't already, [00:38:55] please take a moment to subscribe to this podcast on YouTube or click the follow button on Apple, [00:39:00] Spotify, or wherever it is that you get your podcasts. And don't forget to follow me on all social [00:39:05] channels at DrTazMD. Until next time, stay healthy and stay whole.