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USDN Podcast is a cinematic indie comics interview series hosted by the USDN_Chairman and the Council of Nerds — spotlighting the creators, storytellers, and worldbuilders shaping the future of independent comics.
Each episode dives beyond headlines into the real journeys behind the books — from Kickstarter launches and creative struggles to the philosophies driving today’s indie storytelling movement.
This isn’t about rumors or recycled news.
It’s about the people creating the worlds.
Through in-depth conversations, creator spotlights, and crowdfunding discussions, USDN explores:
• The rise of indie comics
• The business of crowdfunding
• The art of worldbuilding
• The realities of independent storytelling
USDN is where indie comics come to life — for the fans, by the creators, and powered by the community.
You are listening to the USDN on the
DFPN.
Thank you.
What is up, everybody?
It's the chairman here of the United
States Department of Nerds,
where we are for the people,
by the people, and of the people.
And today,
we're joined by artists whose work isn't
just about visuals.
It's about emotion, expression,
and purpose.
From comic art to fine art to apparel
design and deeply personal storytelling,
our guest uses creativity as a tool to
evoke thought, spark feeling,
and help heal.
one mind at a time we're talking with
lloyd cheatham jr tonight the creator
behind cheat designs and today we're
diving into his upcoming self-published
comic book brother to the night not of
the night i made that mistake so many
times the council of nerds is now in
session lloyd welcome to the united states
department of nerds wow man i'm looking
like who you're introducing i don't even
know who this guy is thank you that
was that was a great introduction man i'm
like that's what's happening this well we
got a clown already popping up in here
I know.
I love this guy.
I love that guy.
I do, too.
He'll be joining us on the twenty sixth.
So stay tuned for that announcement.
We'll have Matt back on the show again
with Ray to talk about their upcoming
project as well.
Yes, sir.
Always happy to have them on.
And Lloyd, tonight,
I'm happy to have you on to talk
about this.
I do apologize on my.
advertisement for your appearance.
I did say it was a Kickstarter.
It will not be a Kickstarter.
It will be self-published and sold through
Amazon Fulfillment, correct?
Yes, and I'm printing some myself too.
And printing some himself.
I got a print company that I got
myself that I print and they're going to
run it through there.
Bet.
I'm going to keep that in mind because
I got something coming.
Hey, anything printed, I can get it.
I like it.
I like it, man.
So Lloyd,
for those meeting you for the first time,
who is Lloyd and how did your journey
as an artist begin?
Well,
I've adopted the moniker The Angry Artist
because we get asked some of the most
dumbest questions ever, ever, ever, ever.
You know, like, can you do this?
Why you do that?
Why you charge so much?
And all that.
It's up to shape of who I was.
From a younger age,
my mom gave me pencils and stuff to
keep me busy because I was an only
child for a while.
And then she realized, he's kind of good.
You know what I'm saying?
You know, then older I got,
I remember I was supposed to go into
this school.
We had to be like eleventh grade to
get there, get in.
I was in ninth grade.
Took me there.
I showed them my portfolio and everything
else.
First thing they said was,
you didn't do this.
I said, yeah, I did.
gave me a pencil, gave me paper,
right on the spot, started drawing it.
He said, you start in January.
Nice.
And all that time,
I was just drawing rappers and cars and
shoes and normal stuff.
Then lo and behold,
around the corner from my house,
my own pop grocery store had comic books.
Nice.
I remember those days, man,
with the ninety nine cents and the dollar
comics.
And I mean,
they weren't nothing great or spectacular,
but it was something.
You know what I'm saying?
All the new stuff.
Oh, they had all the new stuff.
New stuff.
Like I get the good stuff, man.
We got, you know, the unknown stuff.
When Topic Filer restarted Spider-Man,
I got one of those out of there.
Oh, nice.
Damn.
Exactly.
And then one of my best friends from
school got me into anime because he had
a Japanese pen pal.
You couldn't really get it back then,
like age, early nineties.
You couldn't really get it.
Everything we got was non-subtitle.
We watched and we're like, ooh, ooh.
We don't know what they're saying,
but all we know is they're fighting.
And then it got to the point where,
hey, I can do that.
I can draw like that.
I was a teenager before I realized there
was comic shops out there.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
And the only reason I realized they had
comics is because we would go in there
for baseball cards and football cards and
stuff like that.
And I looked over one day.
I had never looked over.
Like, my focus was, like, baseball cards,
football cards.
Right.
And he's got these racks of comic books.
I mean, it wasn't big.
His main thing he sold was, you know,
football cards and baseball cards,
basketball.
And I started flipping through the comics,
and that's when I discovered, like, Spawn.
Yep.
Like, he had the very first Spawn.
Yep.
And I was like, ooh, that looks cool.
Let me get that.
So my very first comic book I actually
ever bought
It was an indie comic and it happened
to be Spawn.
That's great.
I've been keeping up with Spawn ever since
then.
It's just kind of wild that I was
that old
When I really, there was,
they sold comic books in comic book shops
and sports car places and stuff like that.
And I was just like, this is cool.
Yeah.
And that's also a time I started forging
my mentality about comics and everything.
I didn't realize my thought process was so
in tune with certain creators.
Seeing Todd McFarlane and Jim Lee and all
them leave.
Oh, yeah.
But the way Todd thinks and everything
else, fast forward to now,
watching his documentary on SyFy,
I could be looking in the mirror the
way he thought.
I just didn't have the drive and
opportunity that he had then.
If I had the same opportunity,
I probably would be out there just like
that now.
Dude,
his drive to change the industry could be
studied.
I'm surprised it's not studied more.
I just literally read...
Somebody had just rewrote an article about
his rise.
Yep.
And it was crazy that somebody here in
twenty twenty six was going back to
re-explore him leaving Marvel,
start an image with Jim Lee and Liefeld
and those guys.
Yeah.
Yeah, Silvestri.
And you still,
you look back on their art now and
you're like, some of the best art,
some of the best writing.
And it's just like, wow.
Todd is still leading Image Comics.
I could say they're easily...
I know they're still looked at as an
indie comic,
but they're easily the number three comic
producer in the world.
Maybe number two.
To me, they probably surpass DC.
They are number two.
They are definitely number two.
Jim Lee is the freaking head of DC
Comics, which is wild to think about now.
He's literally leading DC Comics.
Yeah,
somebody that was a veterinarian picked up
an anime book and turned it into one
of the best comic book artists in the
world.
That's why Todd is where he's at now.
It's because he grabs the best writers and
puts them in charge of his own products
now.
He knows what he's doing.
But, you know,
the reason the thing that built Image
really was they told them what they
couldn't do.
Yes.
And they said, well, watch me.
Creator-owned comics was absurd at the
time.
You can't do that.
Why not?
I wrote it.
I draw it.
Why is it not mine?
Image still stands on that today,
and I'd love to see that.
Right.
When they were told how to create,
you gotta be within the panels.
You can't do all that.
Why?
Says who?
That's the way it's always been done.
And so that's how you innovate.
You don't do what always has been done.
You got to change things.
You got to grow.
You know what I'm saying?
If you don't grow, everything gets boring.
Oh, yeah.
I don't want to see the same old
four panels on the screen, every page,
everybody in the same panel.
I don't want to see that.
Give me the dynamic part.
Give me stuff out the panels,
off the page.
What's crazy is when you think about it
like this,
if those guys wouldn't have left to make
Image, would what's his name?
James Tinian be where he is right now.
Probably not.
With multiple comic books being signed to
TV deals, to movie deals.
What about Image?
I mean, what about Invincible?
Will we have that?
Invincible?
Absolutely not.
Probably not.
We have Walking Dead.
Probably not.
You got to look at everything.
You got to look at the whole outcome
because of what they did.
They broke the mold and said,
you know what?
watch this they're still doing it i mean
they just acquired skybound skybound now
has the ips for gi joe transformers and
that now they're now in the enter they're
both inside the energon universe yeah it's
only a matter of time before that gets
an animated series it's already been
rumored
that they are going to get a series
between G.I.
Joe and Transformers.
Oh, yes.
They also put in Void Rivals into this
Energon universe as well,
which I don't know if you follow Void
Rivals is a great read as well.
No, I don't.
I might have to read that.
No, I don't.
I've been kind of with my head down.
I've been reading a whole lot lately.
What's been taking up my whole time
besides painting and drawing my own comic
has been the Absolute Universe.
That's been taking up all my reading time.
So it's crazy.
I didn't do the Absolute Universe.
I've been picking up certain covers from
certain artists.
I just picked up the Poison Ivy.
I picked up the Big Cat Woman.
One that did just come out.
I picked up the Absolute.
The one with the Joker on it.
Mm-hmm.
picked up the march spears foil collector
covers of the holy trinity i got that
it's and it's just been like picking and
choosing i started reading the absolute
flash because some like some person was
like oh it's the best thing ever and
i was just like i made it about
ten issues and i was like i'm done
and i i'm usually that way with dc
Like,
DC and Marvel both cannot hold my
attention longer than maybe ten issues.
Okay.
But that Batman just got me.
But no.
So what I've been doing is, like,
when the trade paperbacks drop,
I go pick up the trade paperbacks now.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
makes a lot of sense you know for
me it was like they're not doing the
same old everything else it's kind of like
the image thing that's how i was going
with this they took batman put him
somewhere else he doesn't belong and it's
like he's an average joe basically he's
smart yeah yeah they took they stripped
everybody and that's what has been
actually and what i really am enjoying now
having trade paperbacks of them i enjoy it
more yes
but the stripped-down,
raw versions of who the Bruce Wayne is.
He's a construction worker.
He's a normal nine-to-five Joe.
At night, he's just a badass.
We'll absolutely kill you, too.
He has no problem smirking.
Right and left.
Like, wow, that's different.
Like I did just pick up the cover
that just come out.
I think it's like the fifteenth print
because I missed it.
Oh, I feel murk in the KKK.
Oh, really?
I got.
Yeah, I got that.
I picked up.
The newest Catwoman with the Court of Owls
on the cover this week.
And then I picked up.
I know it's going to sound weird,
but when people start doing speculations
on certain titles, that Nightwing title,
the sweater edition with the open chest.
Yeah.
It's already selling for like thirty seven
bucks on the secondary market.
Oh, wow.
It just come out Wednesday.
It do.
Yeah.
I picked it up for five ninety nine.
I didn't even I could turn in a
profit.
I could turn in a profit right now
for.
thirty five bucks which is wild to me
i might get on a show when we're
done because you know my comic shop was
giving me shit he's like why are you
buying this i'm like because it's already
selling on the secondary market for like
thirty five bucks why would i not go
ahead and grab that up right that means
like he's like you just wanted the open
chest of the see nightwing's chest might
Call it what you will, dude,
but I'm about to flip this.
The moment it leaves the shelf and people
start looking for it,
I'm going to flip me a profit on
it.
Yes,
and all those blank covers of all of
them, I got them all.
I got all the blank covers.
You can move those so quick.
Yes.
Matt, you're absolutely right, dude.
He is the set symbol of all time,
and it's canon.
Literally,
it's been said in the comic book.
And my comic book shop wondered why I
paid five ninety nine and and willing to
sell it for thirty five ninety nine.
I don't care.
I don't care.
That's my pure profit.
That's thirty bucks.
That's money.
And you didn't do nothing but go one
place to the other.
That's all you did.
Nothing special, nothing special at all.
And Matt's chiming in about me and my
two panels, because, yes,
think about this.
I look at I look at a comic
book page.
It's nine by six.
Mm hmm.
A little bitty pages and panels in the
middle.
no i'm fifty two i don't wanna read
that crap no oh dude i can't tell
you the number of times where i've had
to put my glasses on still couldn't read
the panel because it was so small went
and got it online because i have the
um the dc and the marvel and the
image stuff that you can get online the
comic app or whatever commentsology
Go read it over there so I can
zoom in and see what it says.
That's the worst thing ever in this day
and age.
I'm sorry, Matt.
Dude, it's horrible.
It's horrible, Matt.
We're not in the eighties no more.
We're not in the eighties.
Let it go.
Let it go.
Let it go.
Don't follow that Twitter.
Dude, no.
No.
Matt, shame on you, buddy.
Shame on you.
I'm going to give you shit next week.
That means he did it.
That means he did it already.
Dude, it's his page.
He owns it.
That's his Twitter account.
Okay, yeah.
I don't Twitter that much,
so I don't know.
I don't either.
But the way he's talking about it,
that's got to be his page.
It's got to be.
It's got to be.
We're on to you, Matt.
We're on to you, buddy.
I've been on to his little weird butt.
That's my friend.
That's my boy, but he's a little weirdo.
Shut up like that.
Weirdo.
So you operate under multiple creative
banners.
You got cheap designs.
You're the angry artist.
Seventy four.
Are both of these you or is one
like you?
represents you creatively and the other
one is your personally?
Like, you see what I'm saying?
There are technically three because Cheat
Designs is, I did this right,
Cheat Designs is the parent company and
then I have one up under it for
my comics, Upstart's comics.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
The angry artist is just who I am
on my podcast.
Gotcha.
You know what I'm saying?
Because I had a new freeing of mental
states as I got older and the F's
were not given anymore.
They got a lot fewer and far between
because I quit being so filtered because
there's nobody else's filter.
Why do I got to be?
Yeah.
I can say what I want like everybody
else.
I don't be more in your face about
it though and not care because what are
you going to do?
Can't whoop me.
Dude, yeah.
But sometimes you have to get it across
so people understand you.
They'll play you soft and everything and
think you're different because you're not
speaking up for yourself.
I said just avoiding confrontation.
That was me.
Now I'm like, oh,
you got something to say?
Say it.
Come on.
I got something back for you.
Come on.
I'm ready.
I'm so ready.
Here's that line.
Here's the line.
You want to cross it?
Please.
We are part of the original F-A-L, F-A-L,
F-O-L.
generation.
And if you don't know and you push
that line, that's your fault.
That's your fault.
You came over here poking the bear.
The bear's trying to sleep.
He's trying to relax.
Let him be.
We're getting older, man.
We're getting old.
That's what it is.
Just leave us alone.
You see us yelling at clouds?
Just leave us alone.
Let me be.
Let me be.
See, everything makes sense now with Matt,
though.
He does cosplay Nightwing.
He cosplays Nightwing.
He cosplays... Wolverine is awesome, too.
Captain America is, too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It really is.
He's angry and thirsty and... Shut up,
fool.
I'm not talking to him right now.
He's lucky he's my friend.
He's really lucky.
What you got for me?
When did you realize art could be more
than just visuals for you?
Like you can actually evoke thoughts and
emotions and help heal through your art.
Cause I know you,
you do have a show coming up.
I think February seventh.
Yep.
I'm not mistaken.
Yep.
A few years ago, I'll say about,
it's about six or seven now.
I bought a house.
and congrats it's a great feeling yeah
great feeling and um it needs some work
and being out you know i'm in the
trades i can i work with carpenters and
everybody else i'm building my comics
build my cabinets i'm doing the face the
face the front um front face yeah yeah
and then this happens oh dude and all
my life i've been ambidextrous now all of
a sudden i'm not
That was an eye-opener.
I'm not laughing at you, man.
It's just one of those weird fucking
accidents.
It was kind of like,
and I had quit drawing for a long
time because I had such a great job.
I quit drawing.
I only did play with myself.
That was kind of like the wake-up dummy.
You got talent, use it.
So I started doing more and doing more
and doing more.
And I actually had to go up there
because my hand, cause you know,
messing with me on my head,
that I hadn't been able to work on
for myself through therapy.
And then I said,
how can I show other people what I'm
feeling and maybe evoke them?
I'll start painting again.
Not drawing comics.
I'll start painting.
So I'll start painting and painting.
I'll never forget this.
It was last summer.
I remember my first big art shows up
here called Palmer Park.
Very big art show.
This guy could have been about fifty yards
away.
He's talking to somebody.
I'm thinking of talking about my business.
He's looking, talking, looking, talking.
Then he makes a beeline to my tent.
He says, I want that.
didn't ask him how much it was.
And there he said,
I heard it way over there.
And it's how I feel.
There's a man sitting like this,
all these colors behind him.
He was kind of driving everything else,
all the colors.
He says,
those are the thoughts going through his
head.
I'm like, wow,
that ain't what I wanted to do,
but I like it.
And that's when I start opening the doors
that I'm touching people in ways I didn't
know I could.
Yeah.
It made me feel actually good.
It inspired me to do even more.
Because art is therapy.
Art can help people.
And it speaks to everybody differently.
Some people see that.
Some people just see, oh, pretty colors,
whatever.
Nice composition.
But it helps.
It helps me more than anybody,
to be honest.
Get out my head.
No.
And it's...
I'm trying to ignore Matt,
but Matt's just dropping great shit in the
chat.
Dude, he's hilarious.
He's like, see me, love me.
He really is, especially tonight.
He's on it tonight, man.
Because I'm on here.
Goofy butt.
But it's amazing how something so simple
can speak to you.
You know what I'm saying?
I don't collect art,
but when Batman spawned,
The newest one come out last year,
I think it was.
And my comic book shop got the big
vinyl poster of that.
The cover A with Jim Lee.
It was Capullo and McFarlane.
Capullo did the Batman and McFarlane did
his spawn on the poster.
I fell in love with that thing.
I told my comic shop, I'm like, hey,
whenever you're done with that,
I'll pay for it.
Just tell me how much you want for
it.
I'll buy it.
Right.
And he was like, all right, yeah,
I got you.
And so, cause I mean,
I was getting all the covers anyway.
Like I'm a huge, huge fan of spawn.
I like Batman to some degree,
certain storylines.
I love hush, that kind of stuff.
Yes.
I liked a war dogs with the original
spawn versus Batman or whatever.
And spawn got the split down his face.
Yes.
And they just sewed it up and then
they retconned it.
And yeah,
So the following week,
I go in to pick up my weeklies,
and he's like, hey,
I got something for you.
He had gotten me the poster,
like the full vinyl poster.
Oh, wow.
So it's literally on my wall right here,
and that thing means the world to me.
Like, he just, no hesitation whatsoever.
I was like, I figure I'll just wait,
you know,
three or four months until he's done with
it,
and then I'll just buy it off of
him.
But he was like...
He's like, no, dude.
He's like, I got you.
That was dope.
And what's funny, when that came out,
I was at a comic book con.
And what I've learned to do,
so I don't get asked for commissions,
I'll be drawing at the table.
Because I don't like people over my head
being extra critical while I'm drawing.
Like, I don't like that.
It bothers me.
But I was doing a Batman spawn.
Oh, really?
That's dope.
This dude was like,
is that what I think it is?
I said, yeah.
He goes, I'm going to take your drawing.
I said, by the way,
it's in about three minutes.
He goes, I'll come back.
He said, I want it.
I wasn't doing it to sell it.
To sell, yeah.
I was doing it to keep me occupied,
basically, from getting out.
And he came back and got it.
And I was like, wow.
So this is what will drive me crazy.
When you go to a con now,
and when I go now, I'm very...
There's certain things I want to do while
I'm there, and I want to be gone.
I want to see the people who I
picked out books to have signed,
and that's it.
I don't need to shop around.
I just want certain things signed by
whoever's there, and then I'm gone.
Inyuk Lee was supposed to be at GalaxyCon.
Oh, nice.
But he spent so much time in his
hotel room working on commissions that he
didn't have time to sign anything.
What?
Yeah.
Because he was being commissioned.
Of course,
he's going to make the extra money on
the side because they're not getting paid
that much for their appearance.
They're getting room and board or
whatever.
Their meals comped.
but their money is made off of commissions
while they're at these cons.
So they may only show up to the
car for like an hour or two and
then they're gone.
They're,
they're back to doing commissions.
And I was like, his, cause he had,
he had done a cat woman, the, uh,
the kimono cat woman that he had done
like last year.
Yep.
I wanted that signed.
And then he had done a few, uh,
something that's killing the children
covers that I wanted to have signed.
And, um,
Wasn't even there.
Couldn't find the guy.
They were like,
he's doing commissions right now.
He'll be down at this time.
I'm not going to be here then.
But they get paid for their autographs
too.
Right?
I'm not crazy.
The first five are free,
but anything over five,
they will charge for.
I'm not trying to resell.
I'm just trying to get for me.
There's certain things that I just want to
have signed.
I get that.
Yeah.
Now,
if he would offer like a special artist
signature or something like that,
then yeah, I would pay extra for that.
But most of them, it's just like...
Whatever.
Like Tyler Kirkham.
Yes.
He has an art signature that he charges
for.
He does.
And then he just has a signature that
he'll do if you don't like.
But his art signature is so dope that
you kind of want to pay for that
extra money for it.
You know what I'm saying?
I was asking.
I was like,
I didn't know people like that charge for
it.
Okay.
I didn't know.
Because I don't really fanboy out like
that a lot.
I really don't.
It happened to be one good time.
I was down in Chicago going to Wizard
World.
We're checking out a hotel.
A boy like, turn around.
I said, leave me alone.
Check him out.
Turn around.
There was this little short Asian.
Really tall white guy.
Jim Lee and some vegetables standing right
behind us.
I was like,
I would have been nothing to say.
I had no words.
Yeah.
But we got to go on the con,
you know,
and talk to him and everything else.
It was it was just surreal.
There's people that happen to be sweet
people.
Dude,
I've heard Jim Lee is like one of
the nicest freaking people.
He is.
It was amazing.
Hey, yeah.
OK, whatever.
Keep trying and doing this.
I think his wife's a doctor, too,
or something.
And I think his daughter is also a
doctor.
think i think you're right yeah but those
kind of moments are the what's changed for
me i can say something about that is
being on the flip side now being able
to talk to them as up here like
certain people are on my friends list on
name drop but we talk normally like we're
talking right now that's how we talk yeah
and it's like huh i used to look
up to you now i'm really talking to
you
What's changed?
So Tini Howard was there who, you know,
she worked on the original Rick and Morty
comic book.
Yes.
And of course she's doing her own thing
now.
She has Marian Heretic,
which is from Boom Studios,
which is an amazing book.
But she was there.
She wasn't even announced to be there.
So I didn't have anything prepared for
her.
And she just kind of sent their board
out of her mind.
And I'm like,
I'm like,
you realize you weren't advertised, right?
She's like, yeah, I've been hearing that.
She's like,
I've always was on the docket to be
here.
You know what I'm saying?
It was already scheduled.
I'm like, well,
I didn't bring anything for you to sign.
She's like, Rick and Morty worked for you.
I was like, yeah,
Rick and Morty works for me.
Right.
And then Luana Vecchia was there this last
time, which, you know,
lovesick and doll parts.
So I got her autograph.
Tula Latoy was there.
So I got her autograph on some of
her stuff.
I also picked up her art book,
which is an amazing piece of work.
If you can get your hands on one
of her art books,
but it's one of those where I don't,
I'm not trying to collect signatures to
resell on the secondary market.
No,
I just want it for my personal self
because I respect and admire the work that
they do.
And it means a lot to me to
get that signature, you know?
yeah because like behind me i've got a
wall of our fame because i'll draw
something like and take it to a con
that knows somebody's going to be there
i'll give them i'll give them one and
i have them sign one for me yeah
dude that's pretty smart actually yeah
like i've got some i got kurt angle
rvd i did that i i got i
got um the crow you know i got
all kinds of things so
Hodgepodge-tastic in San Antonio had...
What's his name?
The dude that wrote The Crow.
I can't think of his name.
Yes.
And he also had the guy that did
the second Crow, the actor.
He was also in John Wick.
I can't remember his name,
but they had him there in-house doing
signatures.
And I was like,
I'm not going to go out and buy
a first edition Crow comic book because
that's going to be like twelve hundred
bucks.
Right.
the chairman ain't got twelve hundred
bucks sitting around sitting around to be
buying that.
I mean,
I would have bought it if I,
you know,
if I had that kind of money.
But they were like,
we have the book in house,
like just the actual book,
the graphic novel.
And we also have the Funko Pops if
you want to have them sign that.
I was like, yes.
Oh, wow.
And they're like,
we'll send it to you as soon as
it's done.
And they, you know, I paid them and
i it's literally you know it's put put
away right now as you can tell
everything's a mess in here where i'm
rearranging things of course it is and uh
like it's like a never-ending thing like
every year you know at the beginning of
the year i'm like all right gotta get
organized gotta i want to move this and
do that and so anything that's really nice
like that like the funko paw in in
the crow i normally keep them side by
side because they're both autographed and
uh
But I'm like, all right,
put them away neatly in a box for
now.
And as soon as everything is put back
together, I'll break them back out.
But yeah, that's just me.
I like to collect the signatures for
myself.
I don't think I've ever sold any.
Like my one Tyler Kirkham I have.
I got the art design on the original
Battle Beast when it come out a few
years back.
Oh, wow.
And I got it here.
And he did it live on whatnot.
Like he,
he had a whatnot stream and I was
like, Ooh, I like that battle beast.
So I got the battle beast and he
was like, Hey, you know,
do you want the art signature with it?
I was like,
I've already spent this much on the book.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let me get that too.
Yeah.
So I got it, but it's like the,
um,
I think it was on Skybound at the
time.
I mean,
I think it's still on Skybound anyway.
But yeah, it was just really cool.
And he was like,
do you want me to make it out
to you?
I was like, no,
just plain signature on it.
And the way he did it,
he's done it in that light blue.
And it just, it looks amazing.
Like it's, yeah.
He's become one of my really good
favorites now because of his way he does
the battle scars stuff.
The battle damage covers?
Yes.
Dude,
if there's a battle damage cover out
there, I own it.
It's just one of my favorite covers.
His Vader he did.
The Battle Beast.
Some of the Marvel and DC ones.
The Batmans.
Yes, I got all the Batmans.
I'll get you on that one, dude.
His battle damage stuff.
It's just different and it's unique.
So...
why not pick it up if you can
pick it up for cover price you know
what i'm saying exactly go ahead and grab
it for real he's another one that actually
changed the way things are done and he
re-innovated things and done things his
way and then you you go to the
other side of the world
Inyuk Lee,
even though I'm still disappointed I
wasn't able to get his signature,
I love the way he does his work.
He's Korean.
Peach Momoko,
I collect everything that Peach Momoko
puts her name on and does because her
style is just so unique that I'm like,
the first time I seen her art was
on the Star Wars comic book she did
for Marvel, but it's the one, the Vision,
Star Wars Visions.
Mm-hmm.
But it's no words.
It's just her art telling a story.
Like a snake eye.
Yeah, and it's just a beautiful book,
cover to cover.
Yes.
And it's actually what the... Oh, dude,
you have to pick it up.
If you can get your hands on it,
get your hands on it.
See if I can find one.
See what I can do to make things
happen.
It's kind of hard for me to really...
buy a lot of comics and stuff like
that because I rather talk to them.
Like, hey, what's going on?
I want to have a conversation.
I'll buy this stuff,
but I have certain ones I read,
of course, but art-wise,
I want to pick your brain.
Why?
I wanted a why because I'm a why
person.
I wanted a why.
There's nothing wrong with that, dude.
I enjoy that.
Well, not when... Many years ago,
I used to hate it when people would
just ask why to ask why.
They'd just be like...
come on dude you're just doing this now
to piss me off don't let's let it
go down that route i'm like i've already
showed you i gave you the book right
do this and don't continue i posted one
of the pages from my book on my
page and asked for some input on a
certain on two i did a page one
way another way which one looks better and
certain people in the industry chimed in
i'm like
I might want to listen to them.
I might want to listen.
Aubrey Sitterson,
who does Free Planet for Image,
back when I was still doing the new
comic book days,
and he dropped issue one of Free Planet.
And I was like,
this is going to be the book or
one of the books of twenty twenty five.
Okay.
And he shot me a message.
He was like, hey, dude,
I appreciate you saying that.
You have no idea what that means to
me and what we're trying to do with
this book.
I was like, dude,
you're Aubrey Sitterson and you just
messaged me.
This is so cool.
Yeah.
You know, because you don't expect it,
you know.
Right.
And he was super nice.
And I've had a lot of really nice
interactions with writers and artists who
they honestly, to God,
they just enjoy when people enjoy what
they're doing.
And they don't really,
they don't really like fanboy out or
whatever, but they treat them like people.
That's what they really like.
They treat them like people.
Because like Eric Basula, E-Bass,
him and I talk a lot on Messenger
and everything and just talking.
And I asked him,
because I got his signature and stuff on
a poster downstairs.
I got him and Sylvester down there.
I said,
why didn't you sign this for me back
in whatever it was in Chicago?
He goes, you got that.
And we would just, stuff like that.
It's cool.
Because that's one of my favorite things
in my painting studio.
I got the poster hanging right there.
Right there.
I'm like, yep, that's my boys.
That's dope.
Yeah.
Dude, that's freaking awesome.
If I ever had a chance to pull
this off the wall and get Capullo or
Matt Farland to sign it,
it would come off my wall in a
heartbeat.
Granted, when I got there, it'd be like,
okay,
let me just undo the back because I
don't want nothing to happen to this.
Because I don't know how much those vinyl
posters cost.
I imagine they're kind of pricey.
Yeah, they are.
I've made a couple.
They're kind of pricey.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, they're kind of pricey.
So let me ask you this.
So visually and thematically,
what attracts you the most?
Darker stories, emotional weight,
or character-driven narratives when it
comes to the way you do comic books?
For like the way I do them or
what I like in other people's books?
Yeah, well, both really.
But mainly like how you like to do
your comic books because Brother to the
Night seems like it's a little bit above
a darker story.
It is because, okay,
let me give a little backstory.
I found role playing in my late teens.
some dnd action yeah typing but we play
a lot of hero type games and everything
else okay you know and stuff like that
and i've got characters i'm i worked on
a few books of my own that i
never got done i got bored i got
bored because that's i'm that guy i'm that
artist shiny i'm just something else
something else but now it got to a
point where i want to finish this book
i gotta finish this book how am i
gonna do this
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
I got the perfect characters for this.
I got everything I need.
And the way the story is,
he's an affluent lawyer that happened to
be a descendant of Shaka Zulu's warrior
shaman that actually knows real magic.
And I was told all heroes have to
have a wound.
character flaw something i said why so
batman's parents died superman said so
what's that doing man i'm doing me my
character has no wounds none he's grew up
in a good neighborhood he's from detroit
good everything but what happens is
everything around him is different he's
seeing things through different eyes now
it's not really a wound but he sees
the world as it is
before it was you know he had roll
color glasses this is city that is wounded
yes i like it yeah i like that
and and there's certain there's elements
that he's fighting and they all get a
totem they all get some kind of african
guy told him whatever this guy got i'm
a punch you cannot take this guy anywhere
and like they all get a totem you
know from he happened to get a nubus
Nice.
And that's not a hero type character.
No, that's, yeah, no.
You know, think of JoJo Bizarre Adventure,
we understand.
But you can't control your stand.
He does what he want to do.
Yeah.
Until he respects you.
Once you earn his respect,
he's got your back.
So it's growing into that kind of story
right now.
It's different for me.
It's something different,
but I had to get it done because
if I later on want to keep doing
this,
but I don't want to draw at all,
I'd have a roadmap.
This is what I expect.
You can't do it to this level.
I don't want you working on my book.
I'm not going to just pay somebody because
they can draw.
How much of the book is you or
did you actually have other people work on
it with you as well?
One hundred percent drawn, illustrated,
penciled, inked, colored, lettered by me.
I love it.
Dude,
that's the best answer in the world right
there.
And there's no offense to anybody out
there.
Me,
I got an artist who's going to be
working with me on my book.
Me and him, literally,
we shoot each other ideas all the time.
And I told him going into it because
he's a friend of mine.
We have developed a friendship to a point
where I was like,
if I'm going to do my first comic
book, I want it to be with you.
And so...
we shot in my story idea and he
was like dude we have to do that
i was like bet like once you know
we get to the new year you know
i've already got you know notebooks of
ideas and stuff and how i kind of
want to get the story to go but
danny hit me with he's like hey i
love what we're what we're doing but we
need something to fit in here in the
background of the of the story like the
story within the story yes i was like
I literally have been posting his art
leading up to this.
He's seen a bunch of it.
He's seen pages.
That's why he's tripping.
He's seen pages.
But Matt, we'll see you on the twenty-six,
bro.
Behave yourself because we cannot bail you
out in Texas, bud.
I got Cash App.
He has Cash App.
I do not.
And within the story, I've
speckled other people other people from
other stories already in there that i've
already worked on and people are doing my
work are gonna be like wait a minute
isn't that what what it's gonna be one
of those there's a lot of easter eggs
in it if you don't love easter eggs
if you know many things i've worked on
you're gonna be like wait a minute give
me another book because i've i've done
i've done help with other books and other
people's stuff i've just never done my own
i've i worked with a guy over in
england for years
Okay.
Working on his book.
I worked with my man down near the
DMV.
I worked on his book.
But I never finished my own.
Yeah.
It's kind of like on a bucket list
thing for me.
But now,
it's more than that because it has life.
I've seen it.
Dude, I've seen the cover.
I've seen the teaser pages of it.
I've seen the teaser animation you created
for it.
And...
Like the moment you had teased it,
I think Matt was on.
Mm-hmm.
or Matt put us in touch because you
kept teasing it.
And Matt was like,
had me in your post.
He's like, dude,
you got to get on the podcast and
get this book done.
And you were like, Hey, yeah, let me,
let me, it's at the editors.
Yeah.
Let me get it done.
And then we're going to do this.
And here we are, man.
I know it's done.
I for one am excited because I want
to get my hands on the book so
bad after seeing the cover,
teasing animation, you've done on it.
I'm just like,
I want this book so bad.
Matt's in the same boat.
Matt did me the same way the last
time he was on the podcast.
He teased me with Gen X or Gen
One.
I think that's the name of his new
book that they're coming out with.
I think so.
He sent me the teaser art to it.
I was just like, dude,
you know I want this book now.
But I know it's not done.
It's being written right now.
It's being drawn right now.
And I'm just like, I want this book.
Like,
what do I got to do to get
this book?
I'm like,
you can't just drop a teaser on me
like that.
But that's how you get them in there.
It is.
I'm in, dude.
I cannot wait to get my hands on
this.
Many, many years ago, once in Chicago.
I met Brian Haberlin,
who then had a thing called Digital Art
Tutorials.
I wanted to be a colorist.
I didn't want to draw books.
I wanted to color.
I could paint.
Fast forward now, I sent him something.
I said, look,
this is what you helped me to learn
how to do.
And he said, that's cool, man.
And see everything I've done over the
years.
And I think the reason my books never
got done, because I wasn't done.
wasn't the worst enemies when it comes to
that kind of stuff we are always in
our own way because like i'm looking at
some of the other books i was like
damn that was a good idea but my
art sucked i was like whoa no wonder
i didn't finish it then these pencils are
great but my ink sucked on that and
i i'm on the point where i said
i gotta be the first one to do
my home book
But what I did do,
and what I would never do,
is put a book out that I haven't
had nobody else's eyes on.
I refuse that.
Because the stuff my boy picked out,
him and I have been friends since we
were like, fourteen.
And he's an artist himself.
And he's very meticulous,
and I wouldn't take nothing personal.
And he knows how I work.
And stuff he's finding is stuff I had
an art blind eye to.
I couldn't see it.
It's hard to tear apart your own work
that you poured everything into.
I am a hundred percent guilty of that
when I wrote stuff in the past and
like, you don't see it.
That's why it never hurts to put extra
eyes on things.
Yes,
you always need an outside force on
anything you do.
Even with my paintings,
I'll show other people,
even though painting is subjective,
but certain people are like, hey,
look at this.
They go, why you do that?
And that's what I want them to ask
you.
I want the why.
I want the why.
Because I didn't get that from that.
I'm like, hmm.
okay,
and then they give me more inspiration to
add other things into the paintings.
It's kind of like with the comics.
I've shared it with certain people,
a few of them,
and all the reviews everybody said,
it was great.
Only thing they mad at me about was
when's it going to get done.
Dude, that was me, man.
You kept dropping the cover teasers,
your page teasers.
and i was and i kept hitting you
i think i've hit you up three times
before you were like hey dude is that
editors let's go yeah yeah i think it
was matthew that was the final nail in
the coffin for you he was like come
on dude just do the damn podcast you're
there dude you're done yeah editor dude
that's that's like the stamp of approval
right there and the edits are so simple
it's a matter of me like putting on
changing this perspective not really not
even redrawing just changing certain
things i'm like huh and mostly
I'm going to say I'm guilty of this.
There wasn't one period throughout the
whole comic.
Not one period.
Not one period.
Okay.
And then I changed font colors,
but I didn't change fonts.
I'm like, okay, I got you,
I got you.
So it's stuff like that.
There's no major overhauls.
Dude, I consider that,
that's the nitpicky stuff, right?
But it's the nitpicky stuff that seals it,
you know?
It puts that final stamp on it that
says, it's done, it's ready to go.
And when it got real for me was,
because in Clip Studio,
there's a thing where you can preview your
comic in comic form,
turn pages and everything.
Oh, dope, yeah.
i did that and i just froze looking
at it like turning the pages i'm like
oh my it it really solidified the realness
of it yeah it's like wow i got
all these bunch of pages on my screen
i got like three miles in my office
one of them what my work on when
i'm drawing on everything else and all i
can see all these pages but none in
book form
The minute it went in book form,
it hit me.
It becomes real.
It hit me way harder than I expected.
Yeah.
I'm telling you, I know I, for one,
have been excited about this book.
Like, walk us through it.
So from the time you started to the
time you finished,
just like how many hours do you think
you have right now in this book?
okay perspective wise i started this
probably about a little over a year ago
i was working i mentioned about i think
four months ago five months ago yeah
something like that with matt yeah but i
i started before that i hadn't shown
nobody anything because i worked nights
and you did say that you were working
on something and i think it was probably
about a month after that is when you
dropped that first teaser on us
And see,
because I'm the type of person that will
get something like ninety percent done.
Then I'll start showing stuff.
I will show you because what are chances
of it not getting done?
I've done that before.
I put the cart in front of a
horse and I didn't finish.
I wasn't doing that again.
But from the beginning,
and that's part of editing problems too,
from me starting it over almost over a
year ago and stopping and starting,
stopping and not going back over the pages
where I should, because I think they're,
they're fine and not catching the
continuity issues on the panels.
Like, oh, that's what, yeah, yeah.
Angles changing and stuff like that.
But easily I'll sit down and see from
beginning to end a page would probably
take me a day or two.
just one page yeah from and that's not
including lettering it's just the inking
the coloring laying out and all that about
one or two days because i am a
perfectionist i am the guy i'd be like
i don't like that we do that i
like to redo that but believe it or
not lettering that was simple that's wild
though that's wild because i always say
lettering can make or break
when i where the bubble is and that
kind of stuff is make or break but
as a but think about it i'm i'm
doing my own book so i'm drawing with
that in mind already that's the difference
right there is i drew like i'm gonna
bubble over here right here so i'm
thinking about all that while i'm breaking
it down so i'm like wow okay this
right here is different i don't like that
face
And then I'm like, okay, I got that.
I got that.
And then the biggest part for me was
the font face.
What am I going to use?
I don't think everybody uses the same
font.
Everybody else uses.
I'm not going to tell you.
I'm not going to tell you what I
use either.
But it was dope.
Because I wasn't expecting.
It's something simple.
To me, it's one of those books, too.
Like, I've not seen the interior yet,
outside of what you have teased.
And this is one of those books where
I think you have to go with a
unique font.
Yes, I did.
Because to me, it's such a unique book.
I love everything about it,
like the story you're going with, the art.
The main character to me is like, yeah.
He's so Detroit, though.
He's so Detroit, though.
I don't know how to put it.
Think Kwame Kilpatrick.
Okay.
No way I can put it.
Think that guy.
But with more,
I can't say more confidence,
because he was confident as all get out.
I don't know how to put it,
but that's, he's in that mold.
Yeah.
He can do no wrong.
And then all his world gets shaken up.
I'm like, what the hell?
What?
You know,
it's like his whole world got shaken,
basically.
But let's talk a little bit how you're
going.
So we went a little over the story.
I don't want to give away too much
of it because I really do want people
to stand and back this book.
But let's talk about how you're going to
be funding this book and where people are
going to really be able to find the
book once it is ready to go.
Because you are doing it very differently
than the norm, right?
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Most people were trying to do a
Kickstarter and all that crap.
I want it in your hand.
No, there's no, I'm not doing all that.
No, I'm going to do the Amazon KDP,
you know,
so you can get it that way and
on demand that way.
And I'm doing an initial five hundred
print myself because I've got everything
set up for that because
it's something i have was again something
i have to do i don't know where
i can get my own sketch covers but
i have a limited number of sketch covers
too oh nice i'm dope yeah and i've
got different i got three different covers
right now that was where i was going
this is like so i've seen the main
cover which i'm guessing is cover a is
the one i've been using to market your
appearance tonight and that thing is like
legit i love that cover
So did you see the Anubis cover?
I have not seen the Anubis cover.
You didn't send me that one.
You just sent me the one.
It was in one of the couple of
animations.
I have to go back and rewatch the
animation again because I literally
watched it beforehand,
but I was also trying to eat dinner
at the same time.
So my attention was on dinner versus what
else I was trying to do.
I snuck that in.
And when I showed it to my friend,
he was like, wait a minute.
I was like, don't worry about it.
So are all three going to be,
all of them are going to be available
all at the same time?
No,
they're going to be staggered on purpose.
Okay.
Dude, that's pretty genius, actually.
Like,
it's going to get less and less of
the other ones as they come out.
You know,
kind of like first one will be
twenty-five.
I'm going to give you a number to
say.
Next one might be twenty.
The next one might be fifteen.
So if you don't get the other ones,
you don't go ahead and get it.
You're not going to get it.
yeah i'm gonna put in my pre-order with
you now like just tell me what i
need to do and i do have and
what's funny is i've got a couple degrees
i never used because they weren't paying
the bills yeah and that's in one of
them people like why are you doing like
that i said because that's where you're
working in and keeping it fresh you're
supposed to do it like that even my
art show i put out a new flyer
every week
like why i said because it's fresh in
their mind yeah it keeps it relevant in
front of your face same thing going like
earlier i was like i said i was
breaking down on a painting but before
that i was breaking down characters
because my book my book is going about
i think it's going to be oh nice
yeah and that's basically a graphic novel
I think there's only twenty-six readable
pages,
but the rest are all backgrounds and
upcoming stuff.
At the end of the day,
how many books do you think you're going
to do of Brother to the Night?
Well, just right here,
I'm going to do myself.
I committed myself to do a three-story,
three-book arc.
And then I've got somebody that wants to
come in behind me.
That's why I'm doing it the way I'm
doing it.
Makes sense.
Here, do that.
I got a really good friend that's going
to write the next art too.
Ty McFarlane actually does that with his
books.
He has different artists and writers and
everything on almost every different arc
of all his stories that are currently
ongoing.
And then every now and then,
it'll get to a point where he's like,
okay,
I don't know what you're trying to do
here with this story now,
but let me reel it back in.
So I'm going to write the next few
issues, bring it back,
and then it's time for a new arc
anyway.
So I'm going to close the arc and
we're going to go to the next arc.
Did I mention that he's, like,
I think like that guy?
Did I mention that?
You did.
You did.
And that's actually, like,
very few people can do it the way
he does it.
And he's a pro at it.
Like...
I can't say enough great Danes.
I know a lot of people,
you love him or you hate him on
it.
But just the way he does Danes,
it makes a ton of sense from a
business standpoint.
It does.
And the man stands on business.
Absolutely.
And it's his whole approach to the whole
why.
He comes back to that because it makes
sense.
Why can't I do it that way?
Why can't I?
Because it says who?
And is there a reason that you can't
break the mold?
There's no reason.
None.
I'm literally doing that with mine.
I'm literally going old school,
black and white,
and I'm going to color splash it.
Nice.
So if, for instance,
somebody shoots a gun in my book,
It's in black and white,
but the spark in the bullet leaving the
gun will have color.
Okay.
If somebody gets offed.
The only color on the page is going
to be the blood.
Similar to how they did Sin City.
I would say that's Sin City.
Sin City.
I think it's a style of art that
isn't done enough because I fell in love
with Sin City because of that.
Even the movie itself was that way.
Oh, yes.
I love that movie.
Same.
I watch that.
I have it on.
I'm a guy that turns that kind of
stuff on while I'm drawing and painting.
I have those going on in the background.
And I'm like, for some reason,
I'll see something like, oh,
I need to do something like that.
Okay, bad.
It just jumps in my head.
And that's what I love.
Like, if there's a neon sign,
the neon sign is going to be neon.
But there's going to be no other color.
Just the art.
Yeah.
Emphasis.
I like that a lot.
I love that concept of art.
It's something that you don't see often.
And I think for the story I'm trying
to tell,
for the error I'm trying to tell the
story in, I think it fits perfect.
I'm talking like nineteen thirties,
nineteen forties.
Era type of book.
Historically accurate, absolutely not.
It's just going to be a fun story.
told from a different point of view of
that story okay so think like i don't
want to use scarface but like the old
nineteen thirties nineteen forties mafia
movies humphrey bogart you know that kind
of stuff yeah so i want to tell
it's a it's that it's like a story
like that but instead of having humans
as the main characters and the heads of
the mafia families is going to be
universal monsters like Frankenstein,
Dracula,
the creature from the Black Lagoon.
And they are going to be the mafia
members.
Oh, I like that a lot.
So that's breaking news.
That's what it's going to be.
I don't know how I want to tell.
Well,
I have an idea of the story because
obviously I've been writing it down for
four months now.
But it's one of those where I haven't
settled on one thing and how I want
to do it.
Okay.
Yeah,
it's going to be a lot of fun.
I want to drop a blurb about my
book.
Anybody that has ever played White Wolf
role-playing, they're not defunct.
I do have the technocracy and hit marks
in my book.
I was going to say it reminded me
a little bit of Double Dragon.
What?
Your book.
It does?
Like,
the way the two dudes are on the
cover?
Oh.
That's...
The guy behind him is the anti-hero.
Oh, yeah.
I have no doubt.
But it was one of those where, like,
I've seen it, and I was like,
it's kind of like it's got some Double
Dragon vibes or some, you know,
the Street Fighter vibes to it.
Yeah.
Two sides, one coin.
That's all I can say.
Exactly.
Two sides, one coin.
Exactly.
That's what that is.
I'm excited about this myself.
At first, I really wasn't.
It was a completion thing for me.
Dude, I know me and Matt both.
I think we were both.
The moment you dropped that first teaser,
we were both on you like, dude.
Before that, he's already seen stuff.
He said, what are you waiting on?
I said, taking my time.
I'm doing it because I don't know.
It's your prerogative.
It's your book.
It's your baby.
A hundred percent.
And I had art shows up the butt
at a time.
Mind you,
I'm not working full-time anymore.
I'm a full-time artist.
So I got to keep fresh paintings going.
Then I got to find time to do
commissions.
Then I got to find time to do
comics.
You see what I'm saying?
So it's for me,
the comics on the lower end,
because I'm going to get it done,
but it's not as important as the stuff
that's paying me.
Dude, no.
Money over everything.
When it is paying me,
it's going to get a bigger chunk of
my life.
Yeah.
A hundred percent on that.
Actually, this is only a test.
I'll say that.
This is only a test.
Dude,
you're about to ace this fucking test.
I'm telling you that right now.
Let me see if I can do this
the way I want to package it the
way I want to so I can do
something else.
Oh, no,
I get you a hundred percent on that.
Cause it is,
it's a difficult road and a difficult
process,
especially when it's your account at the
end of the day.
Yes.
Taking the hit.
Yeah.
And it's not cheap start to finish.
It is not cheap.
And you're not,
you don't even calculate your own time
into that.
That's the part that's not cheap.
That part right there.
Yeah.
Your time.
Cause once the time is gone,
you can't get it back money.
You can get back.
but you can't get back your time once
it's gone I tried to explain that to
somebody one time and it was I don't
know if it was just over their head
or if they were just like they didn't
want to see it through that lens maybe
but it's like a lot of people when
they go whether they're a writer,
an artist what have you they're not
calculating their time they're calculating
the work
Yes.
Like I know if I broke down my
yearly salary to the hour,
how much I would be making.
And that's the,
I'll look through things at.
So when I'm editing a video or if
I'm making clips for say, for instance,
you,
I break my time down by my dollar,
what I'm worth.
Yes.
Based off my nine to five.
Absolutely.
And I don't think enough people win.
they're doing certain things or they're
like, oh,
I'm going to sell this book for this
amount.
Is that the dollar amount that you think
you could sell the book for?
You know, are you including your time?
It took you to do this.
Right.
I had a friend.
Because you're not getting that time back.
No.
But you can make your dollars.
A buddy of mine, a really,
really good friend of mine,
also a brother of mine, did a book.
And I did a cover for him.
I did a poster.
Just because he asked me to.
And I was like, yeah, I got you.
He was asking five bucks for it at
my table at a Comic-Con.
I'm selling his same book on my table
with my cover for fifteen dollars.
Mm hmm.
Because you understood the value of your
time.
And the difference was they were buying
them from me.
They were buying them.
Quick pass in a hurry.
Bless you.
It didn't happen.
No.
It got stuck.
It got stuck.
It was like right there.
And I'm like, oh, come on.
Got stuck on me.
I couldn't get it out.
It's like once you get that confidence in
what you got and know what you're doing,
they see it.
They want that.
They say, okay, give me that.
Yes, I'll take that.
I'll take that.
I found a couple the other day I
still had.
I was like, hmm,
let me see if I can get rid
of these a couple while I'm here.
Sure enough,
I got twenty for them this time.
So it's wild, right?
Because I told you during the last con,
I picked up two little toys art book.
Right.
How big do you think that art book
is?
I don't know.
I was a little bitty art book.
It's full custom.
Like it's all her arts that she's done
throughout, you know, that year.
Okay.
And, um,
It came signed.
It came with a sketch,
like a sketch she did on the spot
or whatever.
But that was forty bucks.
But it's a one of a kind,
one of two hundred and fifty or whatever,
or one of one hundred.
And that's why I had no issues with
it.
I started one.
Yeah, dude,
I'm I'm going to fill this up and
I'm going to send it out and get
it made.
That's the way to do it.
Cause she, she does one a year.
And depending on which one you pick,
because she does several different ones.
Okay.
And she charges per what it is.
Like she does a one in five,
like it could be a one in five
hundred.
It could be a, you know,
a five hundred run or a two hundred
fifty run, a hundred run, a fifty run.
And once they're gone, they're gone.
Right.
She's not going to get any more made
for that year.
So she sells out during a show.
And, you know,
you space them out the proper way.
They'll last you the entire year.
But yeah,
I think she actually sold out of the
twenty twenty five stuff like three
quarters of the way through twenty twenty
five.
Marketing one on one right there.
Yeah.
You don't keep you don't keep redoing it,
redoing it.
It diminishes your value.
And the more significant it is.
And let's say even with those,
let's say she had forty of them and
she went through and did something hand on
each one.
That creates the value of each one.
And it was done by hand.
Like each piece of like art that she
sketched in that book that day is a
one of one,
the signature of one of one.
That's on that picture that she just drew.
Right.
And it's one of those where it's still
at the end of the day, you're like,
you know, a lot for that.
But at the end of the day,
you're like, that's a one of one.
exactly like that sketch will not be
redone by her not in the same style
in the same manner people love the fact
that they have something nobody else can
have oh yeah a hundred percent and it
wasn't one of those where i was expecting
to get it i just wanted the you
know i have a couple of her books
that i want it signed and um i
seen it sitting there and i was like
is that your art book for this year?
And she was like, yeah, she's like,
that's the, like the, you know,
I forgot they're individually numbered
too.
So that was like the two hundred and
fifty one.
Okay.
So I was like, yeah,
I'm going to get in on that.
Let me get that.
Right.
Because like I'll do prints.
I'll do prints of my stuff from originals.
But I always keep the first print for
myself.
I always do.
You know why?
I say because it's mine.
It's number one.
Number one.
There'll never be another number one.
That's me.
And then I'll have X amount.
But then let's say in the first ten,
I'll do something hand to him.
If it's a gold embellishment or a
different color paint here and there,
everything a little different to show
those that those are the special ones.
And then the rest of them are just,
once they're gone, they're gone.
Those first ten,
you can't get nothing else like those.
The rest of them might be alike,
but the first ten are going to be
what they are.
Mark Spears, I think,
does a really good job of that with
the blind bags and that kind of stuff.
And then DC KO here recently doing the
blind bags.
Woo.
Yes.
Yeah.
So, I mean, and honestly, I,
I'm not reading any of the DC KO.
It's just not my flavor,
but the Mark Spears stuff with his
monsters,
because I backed the original monsters on
Kickstarter before the book was picked up
by the keen spot.
Okay.
And, um,
Just because, like I said,
I'm a fan of the old Universal Monsters,
and that's why his book is based off
of.
Okay.
And it's also based off a card game
that he created based off the Universal
Monsters.
He just made it into a comic book.
Oh, nice.
But anytime there's a blind bag on those,
like he just had the Christmas ones,
he had the Halloween ones, and they're...
Do I expect to get like one in
one of the one in fives or the
one in tens?
No,
but I do like the fact that it's
like a one in two hundred and fifty
because I'm one of two hundred and fifty
people out there that own this book now.
You know,
do you see you just you just reiterate
what I was saying?
You want to feel like, OK, nobody.
OK, a few of us got this bet.
Thank you.
I'm special.
Exactly.
I'm special.
It is.
I don't want to say it's like owning
a piece of the person, but it is.
It's a little bit of that person because
they poured a lot of love,
a lot of passion,
and a lot of themselves into making that
special.
That's why there's only so many out there.
That's why it's one of those – it's
hard to put into words because I'm a
huge fan of Mark Spears,
especially his villains.
His superheroes are –
eh, I could care less.
But he does a monster or a villain
or something like that,
it's a different level.
He's good either way,
but the way he does the evil monsters
and villains and stuff like that,
you can tell he puts a little bit
of extra into that.
So for me,
I love that dude and what he does
with monsters and that kind of stuff.
And me and Matt were talking the other
night, actually, and I realized something.
All the artists I really like,
and I'm a comic guy.
I like comics,
but I like the comics for the art.
It depends on who's drawing it.
If it's one of my favorite stories and
somebody's drawing this whack,
I can't read it.
I'm a big Joe Mad guy,
big Jim Lee guy, big Toddy Mac guy,
Talent Caldwell, E-Bass, Dave Finch.
Those are all like,
they all have something different that I
like the way they do it.
No, a hundred percent, dude.
And what I also love is like about
like indie guys from like Image,
Boom Studios, Dark Horse,
is they take the chances on the small
guys on the come up.
Yes.
And they have some of the prettiest art,
the way they blend colors,
like these newer styles that are coming
out into the market.
Yeah.
they're just on another level of
creativity.
Yes.
Because they, they hit him with the,
I'm gonna go back to it.
The, why can't I do it this way?
Exactly.
They live that.
They make that.
Exactly.
Why?
That's how they get paid.
Cause it's my office.
I couldn't do this.
He said, I couldn't do this.
And they go, why can't I,
I'll go over here and do it.
And we just run.
Nope.
I don't need them.
Absolutely.
Like, um,
It's one of the artists.
He does a lot of Star Wars stuff.
That's what he is known for is Star
Wars.
He's just so good.
You know it's his the moment you see
the interiors or the cover.
You don't even have to see names.
The moment you open it up, you're like,
I know who this is.
You get to a point in your collecting
and your reading and your studying of
comic books where you go...
Oh, that's a Kirkham cover.
That's a Scotty Young cover.
That's a Peach Momoko.
And you just get to that point where
you know artists by what the cover looks
like or what the interiors look like.
It just becomes like,
especially the ones you really enjoy.
You could just be walking the aisles and
be like, ooh,
they got that one cover from that one
person.
I need that one.
Exactly.
Like,
I'm growing more and more to Clayton
Crane.
Dude, you just now?
You just now getting on that?
No, no, I've been on it, but.
Like, his Wolverine?
Seeing the process behind it has got me.
His YouTube?
His YouTube and his TikTok.
Yeah.
I'm like, wait a minute.
He's just using what I use.
Wow.
All these years,
he's been doing the same thing,
just differently,
because he answered his why.
Why can't I?
And he did it.
And Clayton Crane's one of those guys
where it is...
It looks simple, but it's not.
It's not at all.
People who see him do what he's doing
to the level he's doing it at,
and then they go, I can do that.
No, you can't.
No, you can't.
You are not doing that.
No.
To me, I was taught as an artist,
if there's a tool out there,
you need to know how to use it.
You got to be good at it.
Just know how to use it.
Just think about it.
And I've built my whole art career on
that.
And it's not just knowing the tool.
It's using the tool.
It's repetition with the tool.
Yes.
It's like if you don't use it,
you lose it.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
And somebody told me my digital painting
is not painting.
I said, how come it isn't?
I said, I'm using oil paints.
I'm using gouache.
I'm using the exact same.
It takes the exact same process to do
it.
Just no mess.
I want to see you get on here
and do it.
Exactly.
I love those people that say, well,
you can't do that.
Show me.
Tell me you can do it then first.
What I really like,
and it's been wild because I love to
see it go from paper to digital.
to the finished product.
You know what I'm saying?
Like the guys who will start it on
paper and pencil, take the picture of it,
upload it,
and then start elevating that same basic
drawing into the final product.
And it is just like one of the
greatest process to watch.
Well, my program,
I've gotten so lifelike that I don't have
to draw on paper anymore.
It looks like I did and I absolutely
did not.
Watch Clayton Crane just like I do because
it's just fun to watch him.
You see it's all digital.
It's just amazing.
I also have that same love for watching
Jim Lee draw Batman on paper or watching
McFarlane draw his Spider-Man on paper.
It's just like
Yeah.
Yeah,
but seeing him do it on The Way
Come blew me away too.
Exactly.
I was like, whoa!
Because he's skipping steps.
He makes shapes.
That's all he does.
He doesn't make no detail.
Dude, it's insane, right?
Yes.
The way he starts out with circles and
rectangles and squares.
And then he just... Yeah,
and you're just like... Wait,
he started out with basically a stick
figure.
Right.
And just made it into this...
full, three-D-formed masterpiece in, like,
five minutes.
Yeah, there was no pencil rendering,
nothing.
It was just, okay,
I got the frame here.
Now let me put some clothes on it.
I was like, I can't do that.
I gotta sketch it out.
I can't lie.
I gotta sketch it out.
I have to.
And then there's muscles all of a sudden,
and there's veins,
and there's facial hair, and there's hair,
and you're just like, what?
But how?
How?
I hate finding one of his videos.
I'm painting.
I'm picking up my phone to relax for
a minute.
Then I look up.
Two hours has gone by.
I'm like, uh-oh.
I've been watching videos too long.
Put this down because I get so involved
with the process.
It's amazing.
I have no qualms with how anybody does
their art because to each their own,
right?
Yes.
As long as it looks good at the
end of the day and it moves and
creates revenue for you,
Do it.
I'm going to say this,
and I'm going to die on this hill.
I better not catch you doing AI.
No.
Oh, hell no.
No.
No.
No.
Not at all.
No, we don't play that around here.
No.
Absolutely not.
No, at all.
And I'm glad the cons are finally
recognizing it.
Finally.
They don't want no AI in there.
They catch you.
They're putting you out.
Yeah, dude.
I'm trying to remember where it was.
It made front page of one of the
big... San Diego.
Yeah, San Diego.
It threw out like twelve different people.
Something like that.
And it was all bootleg too.
It was all bootleg.
I was like, what? !
I said, y'all are just stupid.
Not only did they do that,
they put a big-ass sign up where your
booth was saying why they threw you out.
Yep.
Embarrassed the hell out of you.
And what kills me is the ones that...
A walk of shame and a sign to
point it out.
Because they were being escorted out.
Yes.
They're like...
There was no talking.
Get out.
They would stand there over you and watch
you pack your shit and leave.
I've personally seen some people I know
that have struggled drawing that all of a
sudden they're freaking Jim Lee.
How'd you get there?
They're popping it into AI to clean it.
Teach me how to do that.
Show me how to do that.
And that's why if you watch all my
videos,
you'll see my promos where I got pencils,
inks, colors,
all in for people that like that.
They say, oh, you did it?
No, I didn't.
No, I didn't.
Look at this.
I can show you this.
I can show you the breakdown.
You can see the brush strokes in your
paintings.
Like, it's literally on a freaking canvas.
Yeah.
But even with the comics,
People are questioning, like, well,
when did you get that good?
I've been that good.
I just wasn't doing my own.
Have you not seen my pinups?
Have you not seen my covers?
Probably not.
If you're asking that question.
So I'll say this, dude.
This show right here, right now,
was shared more times than any other show
I've done in the past.
Oh, wow.
Really?
Yeah.
Like the amount of love you get from
the community around you and the people
around you was amazing.
I was looking at it before we had
started because I kept seeing like, oh,
this person shared this,
this person shared this.
You know,
you can click on that and you can
see how many times it's basically been
shared.
Okay.
I can't remember the exact number,
but it was getting up to the double
digit shares for this show tonight.
For little old me?
Yeah.
Dude,
you have an amazing community around you.
It is phenomenal to see.
I kind of warned the...
I'm having my art show at a distillery.
Why is that me doing it at a
distillery?
I don't know.
Hey, get in where you fit in, right?
I asked, I said,
how many can you hold?
Oh, about eight to a hundred.
I said, ooh.
I said,
it's going to be a lot of people
here.
I said,
this is the first art show I've done
within the city limits.
Mm-hmm.
And everybody has wanted to come to my
shows,
but they're always outside the city
limits.
Nobody really wants to go far and
everything else.
I said, you're going to get packed.
But no, we're not.
I said, yeah, you are.
And you just proved it.
I'm going to do you a solid.
Let me show you something.
That's one of the alternate covers.
Dude.
I'm telling you.
Just point me in the direction and let
me go get what I need to get
because I want one of each.
It'll probably be formatted and uploaded
next week because I got, I think,
four or five more edits to go and
I'm done.
That's what I'm on.
I'm glad we're getting to this because it
is kind of time to start wrapping this
up.
Otherwise,
I would sit here and talk to you
all night about this kind of stuff.
I can do that.
That's who I am.
I don't mind it at all.
I got work in the morning.
I can't do that.
I got to go paint.
I got a show coming up.
Yeah, I was about to say, let's...
Let's tell everybody where your show is
going to be at,
what time it's going to be there,
and what can they expect from your show?
If you're in the Detroit area,
it's going to be at Two James Spirits
on Michigan Avenue near downtown Detroit
in front of the new train station.
It's going to start at six o'clock.
I'm doing something very special because I
didn't know how to help my cousin.
She's been diagnosed with cancer.
A severe kind of cancer.
And what I did was I painted one
piece that I'm going to donate sixty
percent of the sale to her.
And it's going to be a silent auction
for that piece.
Because it's she survived the
No, pancreatic cancer.
Leukemia, one of them, at fourteen.
She survived that.
She's now forty-five.
So it's come back to try again.
A different kind this time.
Yeah.
And it bothered me so much, too.
I didn't know what to do.
I'm down there painting.
I was like, before I said a word,
I called her.
I said, hey, look,
I'm going to do this.
She said, what?
At first, I don't think it sunk in.
Then later on,
I seen her sharing it and loving it.
And I'm like, oh.
Because we need that.
That's another way my art can help
somebody.
I mentioned earlier when we kicked off the
show that that's what your art is bringing
to people around you.
When I literally said tons of people have
shared this show tonight,
hopefully they tune in on the replay of
it and listen to it when it hits
the podcast links because good things
happen for good people and you're good
people in my book.
Appreciate that, bro.
I'm happy.
I can't wait to see how well the
show is going to go.
I know you'll,
you'll provide some social media updates
on that as it goes on.
And I'm looking forward to seeing that
when you start posting on that.
Now let's talk about the comic book one
more time.
Okay.
When can people expect the link to buy
the comic book to go live?
I would say the first week of February.
First week of February.
Yep.
All right.
I need to be the first one on
that list.
I'll have to send you a link directly
because if I don't,
I got a feeling I'm going to get
red dotted.
Yeah, dude, no, hit me up.
I will definitely,
because I want to be able to share
it with everybody,
because I did give bad gouge,
and I don't like giving bad gouge,
but I originally thought it was a
Kickstarter, so when it's live, for sure,
I'm going to go back,
make another social media post,
and put it back out there for everybody
to see, because again,
I do not like to give bad gouge,
and I want people to go support the
comic book,
because I've seen the teasers for the last
four or five months,
and
Dude.
Go sell this book out.
I was going to do a Kickstarter,
but I was like, no.
Everybody does that.
Even Todd McFarlane has done one.
Done a few of them.
So I'm like, no.
I haven't got to that.
My thing is, I haven't earned that yet.
People don't know me enough to get out
there and do that.
They might support here and there or
whatever,
but they don't know me like that to
do that.
Let me show them I can do this
on my own before I can say, hey,
Pay me before I do it type deal.
That's how I look at it.
Yeah.
I want to have a proven track record.
When you're ready to do a Kickstarter,
let me know.
Okay.
I have some great resources from some
great friends who have been running
Kickstarters for years now,
and they have literally put down every
lesson they have ever learned about
running Kickstarters.
Okay.
So when you're ready to do it,
let me know,
and I will get you those resources because
they're amazing resources.
gotcha so i'll be ready plus i might
know a guy who's who's talked to maybe
forty or ish kickstart projects before wow
okay i i i don't know what you're
talking about man who's that guy who is
that guy
Like I've literally like it was I had
an awesome twenty twenty five, man.
I hope in twenty twenty six is even
better.
I would like to maybe double the amount
of people I've talked I talked to this
year, whether it's Indiegogo,
which I'm not a fan of the back
end of Indiegogo.
Kickstarter, I think,
is amazing from start to finish.
Independent like yourself who are just
going to print it and sell it.
amazon direct and stuff like that you know
i've never like hell yeah let's do it
you know i'm there for two i'll support
that as well it's a lot easier for
somebody that's trying to build a
reputation on their own that way it really
is and you then you can cement it
put the stamp on it like hey i
did this one this is what it did
let's put it out there right so
No, a hundred percent.
But now tell everybody where they can find
you on social media.
And we'll close this up on Facebook.
I am angry artist.
Seventy four on tick tock and Instagram.
I am cheat designs,
cheat underscore designs.
And that's that's where that, you know.
Yeah.
All right, everybody.
I will have all the links that he
just mentioned.
in the description of this when it goes
live again on podcast platforms and also
on the YouTube re-release.
And as soon as he is ready to
start selling this book on one February,
best believe the USDN is going to be
one of the first ones to share that
across social media for him and make sure
that you know what is up with that
book.
It is going to be an amazing book,
no doubts from what I've already seen of
the book.
And I haven't even got to read it
yet.
and i already know i just know yeah
yes but make sure you check out brother
to the night
On his platform, when it does come out,
make sure to support that book and pick
yourself up a copy of that book.
And follow Lloyd.
Lloyd's good people.
He's always posting his art,
where he's going to be at in his
community.
And I'm telling you,
he's always giving back to his community
and showing support and love to his
community.
And as always, support indie creators.
Support original voices.
The Council of Nerds will reconvene
tomorrow with Nathan Rouse.
I hope I'm saying his name right because
I haven't had a chance to actually talk
to him yet.
But I'll be live with him tomorrow at
seven p.m.
Eastern Standard Time to talk about his
Idolverse,
which is a really dope universe that he
has built.
And as always, I'm the chairman.
And this has been the United States
Department of Nerds,
where indie comments come to life.
Enjoy your night and safe travels for
anybody.
If you're getting this winter storm coming
through.