Past Perspectives

Lorna from the Aidan Heavey Library Athlone chats to local historian, and former librarian Gearoid O'Brien

What is Past Perspectives?

A Westmeath Libraries podcast where we chat with a variety of local historians. We'll learn what started them on the path towards history and they'll share some gems of our local history collection

Lorna:

Welcome to the Westmeath Libraries podcast. Today, we are celebrating local history and having a chat with Athlone's favorite historian, Gearoid O' Brian. Morning, Gearoid. How are you today?

Gearoid:

Morning, Lorna. I'm grand. Thanks.

Lorna:

Good. Good. Did you, have an interest in history from your early years? Did you study it in school?

Gearoid:

Well, I suppose I did history up to inter cert, which is the equivalent of today's junior cert. But it was extremely boring. We were dealing mainly with European history and the French revolution and people like Napoleon and Bismarck and various things afterwards. And I just found it boring, and we were learning dates off, but really not learning a lot more.

Gearoid:

And then I didn't get an opportunity to study history for Leaving Cert. I had to pick geography instead of history.

Lorna:

Okay. Interesting.

Gearoid:

So I really came to history more from outside influences rather than from school.

Lorna:

Okay. And did you study it 3rd level?

Gearoid:

No.

Gearoid:

I mean, I studied Greek and Roman civilization, which I suppose is a problem of history, yeah, in 3rd level. But I, no. I think I felt disadvantaged that I hadn't studied history through school. So I, as I say, I came to it in other ways.

Lorna:

And would your family have had an interest in history over the years?

Gearoid:

My father was a great researcher and spent a lot of his time researching local newspapers. And when I look now at how simple it is to come in here

Lorna:

Yeah.

Gearoid:

And put on a microfilm and look at it, he had to go off to London to the British newspaper library in Colindale and spend a week of his holidays every year .

Gearoid:

Researching these and writing a lot of stuff out, longhand in copy books. So it was a very laborious thing. And he did more research than writing. He wrote articles for the Old Athlone Society journal and for a few other things. But he really did a huge amount of research and never utilized it

Lorna:

Okay.

Gearoid:

For, you know, for publication.

Lorna:

Have most of that research?

Gearoid:

I have a good bit of it, but it's been superseded now by modern technology and that. But, I do use some of it from time to time.

Lorna:

Okay.

Gearoid:

And, I mean, there's no doubt he was a great researcher. And I suppose I got an interest from that. And then when, when I started working in the library, there was just myself and one other librarian at the time, Ernan Morris, who was in charge and who had been there for years and years. And when local history queries came in after a year or 2, he started sending them my way rather than his way. And, so there'd be genealogical queries and and other local history queries.

Lorna:

Yeah.

Gearoid:

And I started working on those, and I found that I really enjoyed doing that kind of learning the job.

Gearoid:

I learned on the job. The other the other big influence for me was the late Billy English. Because when I was a child, I I suppose this is maybe very relevant.

Gearoid:

When I was a child, when I was only 10 years of age, they were starting the museum in the castle. And he actually got me to write out the little notices for all the items.

Lorna:

Oh, wow.

Gearoid:

So I was learning about all kinds of artifacts and things. And then he was a great man for setting every one, not just children, but people involved in the Old Athlone society, committee members and that. He would look for a project that would suit their their kind of mentality. And then he'd say, well, would you do that? And as a child, at one stage, I was asked to go around town and record every, inscription that was on plaques or on

Gearoid:

things and do that kind of thing. And then another time, I was asked to compile a whole collection of poetry that had mentioned Athlone or Clonmacnoise And I typed them out.

Gearoid:

And, you know, there were a few projects like that. So he got me very much interested

Lorna:

So he obviously had a big influence

Gearoid:

Yeah, year That was a big influence.

Lorna:

Okay. That's very important too, isn't it?

Gearoid:

It is.

Lorna:

And I obviously know you from your work in the library. So when did you start in the library service?

Gearoid:

I started in the library service in January 1974.

Lorna:

Oh, wow.

Gearoid:

And I started as a temporary library assistant. I was doing a course in, journalism in the College of Commerce in Rathmines , and I had to drop off out because I got sick and I had to have surgery. And when I was when I was getting better, they told me, you've missed too much, especially shorthand and typing, and, we'll keep a place open for you for next year.

Lorna:

Okay.

Gearoid:

So I from about December on, I was just mindlessly walking around Athlone and spending some time in the library.

Lorna:

Yeah.

Gearoid:

And the late Earnan Morris said to me, what are you doing with yourself? Are you not studying? And I said, well, I'm Yeah. Hoping to go back to study in September, but I'm I've I'm taking time off at the moment because I've been sick. And he said, well, would you be interested in working in the library?

Gearoid:

And I said, yes. At that time, it was so simple.

Lorna:

A very different way of getting a job in the library than these days.

Gearoid:

It was. So he just said, well, can you start on Monday? He said, I'll ring Mullingar and tell them I have somebody.

Lorna:

Yeah.

Gearoid:

And I said, I I can. And then the position came was vacant, so I applied for it. And in May that year, I was appointed.

Lorna:

Ah, fantastic. So. you started in Mullingar?

Gearoid:

Oh, no. In Athlone.

Lorna:

Oh, very good. And you always worked your whole career here?

Gearoid:

No. I worked for a few years in Mullingar. I worked in headquarters in Mullingar for maybe 3 years

Lorna:

Oh, very good.

Gearoid:

I think. Yeah. Mhmm.

Lorna:

Yeah. But everybody, I think, in the town knows you as the librarian here. You're still looked for every day.

Gearoid:

But, you know, it's, well, I suppose it was a very interesting job, and, people seem to think that I had the answer to everything. I knew myself I hadn't

Lorna:

We still ring you for all sorts.

Gearoid:

But I you know, I suppose one of the good trainings for librarians is, to have lateral thinking.

Lorna:

Yeah.

Gearoid:

And I think that's something that I got from my training with Erwin Morris.

Lorna:

Mhmm.

Gearoid:

And, therefore, even if I didn't know where if I didn't know the answer to something, I knew where to find it.

Lorna:

Yes. Yes.

Gearoid:

And that's the key to research in all kinds of ways.

Lorna:

Yeah. I think it's also nice to have a local person working in a local library.

Gearoid:

I think it is because I think that you can't beat local knowledge.

Lorna:

No. Stuff you can't learn in books.

Gearoid:

No. And I often I used find when I was in Mullumgar and queries came up. I'd have to be turning around to some of the girls in the general office.

Lorna:

Yeah.

Gearoid:

At that time, there were a lot of girls in the general office. And I would be saying, where is Bracklin?

Lorna:

Yes.

Gearoid:

Yes. Okay. You go out to which the Delvin Road, isn't it? And then and and, really, you know, I was starting from a point of

Lorna:

Yeah.

Gearoid:

No knowledge.

Lorna:

I suppose I'm I found the same when I started here because I knew the local history in Moate. I knew all the places that people would Yeah.

Gearoid:

And local knowledge is usually important because, again, you can identify people who might be able to answer that question

Lorna:

If you can't answer it, you know where to go to. It's usually you for us.

Gearoid:

Yeah.

Lorna:

And how important do you think say, the local studies, rooms are in Athlone and Mullingar for people doing local research?

Gearoid:

Yeah. Well, okay. I think that things have changed an awful lot in recent years, but I think that the local studies rooms are an invaluable resource for people. I think there's nothing like, being able to come in and look at the newspapers yourself and go through them. You you know, if you if you look up something on the, Irish newspaper archive, you end up maybe finding exactly what you're looking for, but you don't see that on the same page, there was also something else Yeah.

Gearoid:

That is maybe ties in with a little bit or that, you know, broadens

Lorna:

a little bit of social value or something. Yeah.

Gearoid:

So, I mean, I think there's nothing there's nothing to beat, having a look think for yourself. And even using all kinds of resources, things like Lewis's Topographical Dictionary or the Gazetteer of Ireland or, in in the case of Athlone, the Burgess papers. That, until you familiarize yourself with those and it takes time to do those things. But when you do, you can certainly make much better use of them than just coming in and trying to find out that there was a man called Thomas Riley who lived in 1784. But you can you can go back and look at deeds, and you can look at various things, and you can build up a much better picture of them if you can do if you're capable of doing your own research.

Lorna:

Yeah.

Gearoid:

And I think these local study rooms are invaluable. They're also invaluable, which I think people don't appreciate from the tourism point of view. Yeah. Because when somebody comes to a town and they're looking for information, and it might be for genealogy or it might be for just to get a local background because their people were from this area, they want to look at things and handle them and And when they do, they're excited. And that's what brings people back.

Lorna:

Yeah. And You can't beat looking at something.

Gearoid:

You can't. And, I mean, I know myself that from my work here that, over the years I mean, I had one Australian lady who came into me once, and it could have been a one one off visit, but it wasn't. And she came back 3 or 4 times in 10 years.

Lorna:

Wow.

Gearoid:

And on one occasion, she brought 3 of her brothers with her. And I just imagine the amount of money that those people spent in Athlone.

Lorna:

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Gearoid:

Yeah. That's the kind of tourism. It's it's hidden tourism, but it's very important.

Lorna:

It's very important. Yeah.

Gearoid:

It is. And every person that comes in here, whether they're from New York or Boston or wherever they're from And a lot of English people indeed. And whoever comes in here, if they get proper, service and if they get help to look for their to find what they're looking for, I mean, they go back with a hugely different view of Ireland than they had

Lorna:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Gearoid:

Before they came.

Lorna:

Yeah. And you're still as busy as ever helping people with the research, don't you?

Gearoid:

Yeah. I can't get away from it. I am. I do a lot of genealogy still, and I do I mean, I'm I'm writing an article for the paper for the last 33 years.

Gearoid:

When I started that, I thought if I get 2 years out of it, I'd be doing very well. Now I do repeat things sometimes, but, in a different way, if I'm if I decide I have to repeat something, I'll always try and put new material.

Lorna:

Find somethin new. Yeah.

Gearoid:

And it's easier to find new things now because of resources. Even people coming in here and looking at the Irish news archive, you will find things that you didn't find in a book. Yeah. So you can add bits and pieces all the time.

Lorna:

Yeah. Very good. Very good. And over the years, you've obviously written plenty for journals and books.

Gearoid:

Yeah, I have. I suppose I the first thing I well, the first thing that I wrote that was between covers, if you like, was The Athlone tourist trail. And that was something that just through the Old Athlone Society, I was asked to edit that.

Gearoid:

And there were a group of us that got together and put it together. But since that, I think I have written about 15 or 16 little books.

Lorna:

Oh, wow.

Gearoid:

Okay. Books and booklets.

Lorna:

Yeah.

Gearoid:

And, I find that I'm never without a project. I mean, in the last Few months, I've been researching 2 Victoria Cross, recipients from Westmeath who very little was known about, and we've certainly expanded the knowledge on both of those people. And, I've just started a series in the paper, looking at the view from the bridge of Athlone. And

Lorna:

Very good.

Gearoid:

Going in a 360 degree, circle around what was there and what is there. And I suppose I'm about I'm more than a quarter way through it, and I'm hoping that this will make another book when it's finished.

Lorna:

Okay. Yes. And is the other project on the Victoria Cross recipients going to be a book as well?

Gearoid:

I'm not sure. It would certainly be articles and lectures. I have to give a lecture in January to the Old Athlone Society on Thomas Flynn. But, we're also working away. And, this material is being taken up by military history groups in England.

Lorna:

Fantastic.

Gearoid:

It's changing the story of these two gentlemen.

Lorna:

Great. Great. And when you were, working as a librarian here, you were a big part of the handover of the Aidan Heavey collection. Could you tell us a little bit about that?

Gearoid:

Yeah. I suppose the Aidan Heavey collection was one of the most exciting things that happened to me during my career in terms of libraries, because, Aidan Heavey was local well, he was locally born. He was a businessman in Dublin. He was extremely wealthy at the time. He had a very fine book collection.

Gearoid:

He was a brother-in-law of Eamonn Norton, who was a very good friend of mine, and he his library went to the University of Limerick.

Lorna:

Okay.

Gearoid:

And, unfortunately, Eamonn Norton had always said to me, that in Athlone, we would get his Athlone collection.

Lorna:

Okay.

Gearoid:

But he never put anything in writing. When he died, the whole lot was sold to the University of Limerick, sponsored by some American beneficiary who put up a lot of money, and, it went to to Limerick. Eamon used to always say to me that Aidan Heavey had one of the best Goldsmith collections in the world. Okay. So I got to know Aidan, not very well, but I got to know him over the years.

Gearoid:

And then out of the blue, we got a phone call to say that Aidan wanted to invite us, myself and I think the county librarian and the county manager, for a meal in his house in Dublin in his apartment in Dublin. He had 2 apartments, 1 for himself and his wife and one for the books, although the books were in their apartment as well. Right. And he invited us up, and he showed us the collection. And he came to the Goldsmith collection, and he said, do you want to talk a little bit about this?

Gearoid:

I had a lot less knowledge about the Goldsmith collection then than I do now. Yeah. But I waxed lyrical about it, and, I was saying, I hope this is good enough to get the Goldsmith collection. And when we had finished our dinner, he turned around and he said, and what about the books? And I thought, what about the books?

Gearoid:

They're very impressive. It's a great collection. Very impressed with it, and they're in beautiful condition. And but he said, do you want them or do you not? Oh,

Lorna:

wow. Yeah.

Gearoid:

And I said, you're talking about the Goldsmith collection? And he said, no. I'm talking about the whole lot.

Lorna:

Oh my goodness.

Gearoid:

If you're taking 1, you're taking them all. Yeah. So, I mean, it was just it was an incredible moment.

Lorna:

Yeah. And

Gearoid:

then when we got the books to Athlone, because the books were in, as I said, 2 apartments in Dublin side by side, and they were also in his warehouse where his business was, hidden in behind hanks of cloth and all kinds of places. Okay. And we got had to get, Fonzie Mealy, who's a a book, auctioneer and

Lorna:

Okay.

Gearoid:

Etcetera. He arranged to transport the whole lot to Athlone. When we put them up on shelves, even though they were double shelved where we were in temporary accommodation, he, came down, and it was the first time he had seen all his books together in one place.

Gearoid:

And he he himself was amazed Yeah. That there was so much. So it's it was a very exciting time. Yeah. And it's an exciting, it's an exciting thing for Athlone to have.

Lorna:

Oh, it is fantastic.

Gearoid:

Yeah. It's something it's a well kept secret, I think, in that Yeah. Just but, again, it's something you don't want to be overused either because the quality of the books and the the importance of the books, in recent times, they've been very well displayed in the library. And I think that's marvelous because people are getting to see some of the gems in that collection.

Gearoid:

But, I think it's something a resource that will be will be appreciated over the years as something really, really special. There's no other provincial library that has anything No. To compare with it.

Lorna:

Oh, it's amazing. Yeah. It's one of the highlights, I think, from when I started here as well.

Gearoid:

Yeah.

Lorna:

Even just going into the room.

Gearoid:

Oh, yeah. That's it's a very special place.

Lorna:

Absolutely is. Yeah. I think that's about it, Gearoid. Thank you so much for giving your time this morning.

Gearoid:

Not at all

Lorna:

Yeah. We look forward to reading more in print from you over the years.

Gearoid:

Thanks much, Lorna. Thank you.

Lorna:

Thank you.